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Title: Interview with G. Dunn
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Title: Interview with G. Dunn
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Miami-Dade County (Fla.) -- History.
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    Copyright
        Copyright
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RED 10

Date: January 26, 1967
Subject: Dunn (Weather
Interviewer: Polly Redond
Transcriber: Sharon Harrington

SIDE I

R: Mid-forties and at the midpoint would be approximate somewhere

around 1950.

D: 1950.

R: So that then presumably 1950 to 1960 might be.

D: Well, until really 1970 or perhaps even at the most 1975 ah, we
C-
should be cooler than normal. Now, I think it was last year, not this

December but the December 1965 iJ was the first time in seven

years that we hadrAt had a December above normal in temperature. Now,

another indicator of the fact that our temperatures have been running

lower than normal and this is particularly true in the winter time

or at least you notice it more in the winter time, ah, yae should have

a frost in Dade County only about every other year but I came down

here in 1955 and this year, this winter, tey haven't had a frost

yet in Dade County although we, somebody from Carol City one morning,

coldest morning did report a thin film of frost on his automobile,

but nevertheless, so far this winter there has been no frost damage

to truck in Dade County but, of course, the winter isn't over yet,

but ah, we normally don't have a frost after the first of March so

that we really have a month to go. This will be the first winter

since I have been down here that we haven't had a, the damaging

frost in Dade County.

R: And you say that we usually have one...

D: On the average we should have one only ah, every other winter.






2





R: Every other winter and we've had them every winter since, ah.

D: Well, except this winter and this winter isn't over yet.

R: Yes, but, what, last winter was a warm winter too, we had one

bad spell.

D: We had one bad spell and .... yeah.

R: And after that it was... cause this has been most unseasonal, this,

this year.

D: Yes, that's right, that is ah, last winter and of course, this

winter is warm, although December did average a degree and a half below

normal but, this is averaging much above, more above normal than

December averaged below normal so that it does appear unless there's

a, a radical change right away, 4a--isn t indicated by anything yet, ah,

that this will be a warm winter. Last year was a warm winter but, ah,

most of the other winters since I've been down here with one exception'-

was the winter that we were in Pakistan, and didn't see ah have been

below normal.

R: Yeah. Well, do you personally iae this Bpokner cycle, so called,

are you personally convinced of it or, do you believe in them, so to

speak, or you v -2t

D: Well urp, I'm a mild believer in it, ah, but, ah, the head, the

chief of the office of climatology at the weather bureau, Dr.

Lansburg, a, -ye+ ah, ranks as a conservative, a strong conservative

in these matters is a non-believer in it. He just recently retired, j

during the last couple months and his successor has been appointed,

but um, a Dr. Bleaka, who is head of the Netherlands Meteorlogical

Service and is the, one of the world's recognized climatologists)

does believe in it and ah, I'm a mild believer in it because it






3





seems to fit in with what I have observed where ever I have been

located ah, in my meteorological lifetime.

R: Well, so and then, so the Bookner -Cycle so to speak, so that's

twenty good years or twenty hot years...

D: That's somewhere between twenty and twenty-five.

R: All right between twenty and twenty-five hot years to oversimplify,

and then followed by twenty or twenty-five cool years.

D: Yeta, yes.
-7
R: And how about in the midpoint, is there sort of a lapse in

between?

D: Well, there a, normally there appears to be a gradual change

over, sometimes it 's abrupt, sometimes it's ah, ah, you'll have

a period of ah, five years or so that, every other year, one

year it's cold and the next year it's below, above and so forth.

R: At-lese4, if I remember correctlyvwhen the sun spots were so,

everybody was talking about the sun spots, at one time they were

very stylish and I remember the sun spots cycle was, I believe,

eleven years wasn't it?

D: Yes, but, there's different sun spot cycles.

R: Well, I know they're superimposed.

D: Yes, and of course the same thing is, appears to be true of,

at least these cycle Pei4e4, you might say, these cycles are

superimposed on each other and so that actually you may have one

warm cycle that's superimposed on another cold cycle, balance

each other out and then on another case you may have two cold

cycles that are superimposed on each other and should give you

a stronger -colder-'1 cycle than you would get otherwise, but,





4





its ah, lets say, this is confused and indefinite and meteorologists

by and large are pretty much -he 0- v .

R: Well, you have to have something to pep up the profession, you

couldn't, you have to have to have something to argue about, wouldn't

be any fun. Um,...

D: There was a former 4& director of the Smithsonian, \4 yv Ebetr

He is, at least in the United States, has been the strongest advocate

of ah, weather cycles.

R: Let me ask you, you're reaching you're getting beyond the

threshold of something that the layman can understand, this is obviously

a professional, intra-professional...

D: You might say they don't understand it.

R: ...controversies that are always so much fun when you're in it,

but, let me ask you one thing, there's all this talk about controlling

of hurricanes, now, I'm sure this is a lousy journalistic question

that you're tired of answering, but, ah, my first question would be,

do you think that, that its possible that some of these techniques,

such as the silver iodide or some of the others will, well, it

won't, would not abolish them entirely but that they could be, in

some measure modified, do you think that might work or?

D: Not within the foreseeable future, that is ah, what little we

have been able to do in the way of experimentation ah, what little

we've been able to do would indicate that ah, nothing is likely to

come out of this in the way -,- of control or modification for at

least another decade. I would hesitate to say what man may or may

not be able to do, twenty-five, fifty years from now.







5





R: Yeah.

D: But, um, there's no indication that we will be able to exercise

any, anything in the way of controlswithin the coming decade.

R: Well, this is just, this question is just a set-up for my next

one, which is really a dirty one, and that is lets assume that yeu

were able to control hurricanes or modify them to such an extent

that what would have been a major hurricane would end up only as

a strong easternly way, in other words, instead of like, winds of

over seventy miles an hour or winds of a hundred and fifty and

two hundred miles an hour that we would still get something that

was maybe only seventy or sixty miles and hour and instead of

ten inches of rainfall we'd only get like four, you know, con-

S4 siderably as tamel them, eame4 them down 1all right. Now, if

SihtErue that hurtAsmo ify) the extremes, which it must be,

and if it is true then that the extremes modify the environment

without sounding too f 4- about the whole thing, might

it-not be possible that hurricanes being in one kind of way an

extreme/7that we have here in South Florida, could you even venture a

guess, a wild cat horse bat guess if hurricanes would disappear would

there be any real changes here, or is that just too awkward?

D: I'm going to give you ah, two answers to this, or perhaps ah,

answers i-two viewpoints. Oye is that a hurricane appears to come

about as a result of excess energy..a in the tropics, by that we

mean excess heat. Now, nature strives and is quite successful at

not exactly neutralizing but, ah, through.. the mixing of the warm air

in the tropics and the cold air ai-the poles in the temperate zones

through these .ic, storms of a, mixing a deficiency of ex-, energy in one






6





place and excessie energy in another, but, it isn't always able to do

so and that when you get this excess of temperature in the tropics

ah, eventually you'll bring about the development of a hurricane.

Now, if nature was not able to handle this in this way it certainly

would have to do it in some other way, because you can not build up

a concentration of energy in a certain restricted area without

something happening ah, ...

R: Something's got to give.

D: It's got to give in some way, so that ah, one might ask the

question, wee-nature's way of handling this situation ah, might

possibly be worse, might be more destructive, ah, thn hurricanee.1 (*

R: Well, lets say, is it, is it a build-up of excess in a little

tiny area that makes this 0D tor?

D: Well, ah, it probably is not in a little tiny area, its over a

fairly broad area ah, but, over this broad area it/starts to try to

work this out in a certain way which leads to an increase in shower

activity.ab
activity, aI as this moisture rises, more moist air .rises from the

surface and then you get this condensationrThrough this process of

condensation you release latent heat ah, well, again heat is energy

and that's just adding more energy 4ell, ah, whenever you have this

process going on that tends to start a circulation and to draw this

energy which is over a wide area to concentrate it in a smaller

area and then eventually will lead to the development os of a

hurricaneo,.but, initially, a&b over a wide area this process starts,

butras soon as you begin to get a circulation, the stuff draws to

a central point in the circulation and then you get your concentration.







7



R: And then once you get the system of the big funnel whaF in the

circular pattern then it tends to continue?

D: Yesd$Tihat is ah, once this process is started it grows on itself and

on its environment and continues this concentration of energya6wdhen

it is moved along by the current in which it is embedded) and then

usually tp- this s, finds a weakness in th tradewinds ah, to the

",North and is able to recurve northward and then takes all of this into

this cooler air in the tempera zone and then completes,4-v process

of mixing)and astr eventually achieves its purpose.

R: Oh, I see, so -t s oversimplified, if you've got this hot spot,

so to speak, this hot spot, this hot wet spot, it starts up a kind of

a, a shi-e, a spout, so to speak, and it pulls it out of the tropics

and dumps it up in the porth, ah, well almost as if you, well I use the

housewife's thing, as if you hdd a bad spot in a bowl of soup and you

simply lifted it out and plucked it out and threw it some place else.

D: You see what normally happens...

R: But then there'd be no, even the wildest guess couldn't explain

what would then happen if these were -9kcl -

D: Yes, no one has any idea just how nature would e&accomplishe4 this.

Now, you see, what happens normally, again getting back to the areas of

high pressure over the oceans ah, the Azores, Bermuda anti-cyclone or

high pressure area and then we have a similar one in the Pacific, in this

circulation ah, this warm moist air which is accumulated in the tropics

ah, around the left side is normally carried and of course this is

in the area of Florida and the eastern United States in summer and then

over South-east Asia as the other place. In other words, there are







8




two main channels to get this northward into the tempera zone. That

is one, the eastern United States and the extreme nearhwestern Atlantic

and then the similar area over near the Asiatic coast, ah, now, ah,

this requires say, a tropical pressure in these areas to do this.

R: Well, the low pressure would be the line of sort of the least

resistance so that it would slip, tend to slip up...

D: Now, at times, you get as again, a general circulation set-up

so that we don't have this tropical pressure over here and ah, it

can't funnel this warm moist air up into the .a, t pera zone and

that's when we get this accumulation and ah, that's when we get this

hurricane.

R: The hurricanesgnd then what, the way that a hurricane goes

depends on what your pressure system is at the time, I mean like,Tor

this-4 if it happens to be on a June 5th, it just depends whosia.
a 6 "o Y
where your high pressure is at that time it will bounce up q 0 -Y
A


D: find the weakness in this circulation. Now, the second

factor I wanted to mention is; that in certain areas, the precipitation

produced by these hurricanes and tropical disturbances ar. is a

major factor in their total precipitation now, last night at home,

I was reading in the Phillipine Islands I can't believe they're

right, but/this is what they say that its between sixty and sixty-

five percent of their annual precipitation. Now, gai water again

is their resource and -ea particularly true where say they need

irrigationaba-aad particularly say in India, where this is so

important as far as their food crop is concerned, h-t-the.TFhey're







9




concerned that if we eliminated these things that -that would have a

serious affect. Now, for example, even in the United States, fifty

percent of tropical storms do more good than they do harm.

R: Oh really, now, that's never come out.in all the talk that they

always, when ever the hurricane comes they interview you'til hell won't

have it and I've never heard it said.

D: Because ah, very frequently, some where or another this thing will

encounter an area that's enjoying the drouth at the time and it breaks

the drouth.

R: Well, just like, look at New England has been saved a number of

times by the September storms that come up and were so bad up there

in Massachusetts and New Hampshire and all, and they were praying for

. a hurricane.

D: Actually, in the last couple of years they have been side-swiped,

you might say. They haven't gotten the full effects but still certain

areas, coastal areas have gotten quite a bit of relief,r.a from the

"qde" edges of these tropical storms.

R: Well, then, to what extent is that true of South Florida, that oes

our precipitation' if yet-were -, to wave the magic wand and say well

all right, no more hurricanes for twenty years, air do you think that

our water situation might,...

D: Not within the foreseeable future and now...

R: No, no, I don't mean, could we do it, but, supposing that you and

I were just able to have a magic wand right here and we could wave it

now and say well, no more hurricanes for twenty years .A- Florida, do

you think that we would change our pattern?

D: No, we don't consider the precipitation produced by tropical

storms in South Florida very significantA now, there have been years






10



when it has been as high as twelve to fifteen percent, but, ah, ...

R: That's the highest?

D: That's the highest. Ah, but, most, say on the average, ah, there's

probably no more than four or five percent, so that we don't think

lhar is important here. Now,...

R: t hen you say that most of them do more good than harm it must be

to the northern states, that it does more good than harm.

D: Well, its ah, it happens along the gulf coast.

R: Ofthe gulf coast.

D: And it happens along the Atlantic coast north of Florida.aadThen

of course, some of these go inland and they will, they can give rain

even into the Mississippi Valley and a, so forth.

R: That one last summer dumped a lot of rain on Georgia, Tennessee

and...

D: Yes, yes, in fact, abr say in Georgia and the Carolinas, Alma, well,

I would expect !t-a1 probably its value to agriculture was at least

twelve million dollars.

R: Oh, really. So, in other words, South Florida or Florida is,

lost, is Caro-, can be count, can beat the Carolinas then.

D: Yes, you see the difference is the, that here the summer is

our rainy season and the hurricanes come during our rainy season

but, you get a little farther north, but, even in the Southern states

you might say, except Florida, ah, you can have serious drouths

during the summer season, which is their growing season.

R: I see.

D: The winter is our growing season, you might say, down here.

R: So ItitT-mO that we don't care.






11





D: Yeah.
ree49~
R: Well, that's pretty interesting. I had, I had no idea that, I mean,

I knew that the hurricanes did a certain amount of good but, I don't

think, that I had no idea that it was even half of them.

D: But even Japan, for example, aim and they have been considering

this, ais that thirty pe cent of their annual precipitation comes

from tropical storms.

R: So that...

D: They're the next highest to the Philipines and that's the reason

why I think the Philipines, a;, but, ...

R: Soends like all of these schemes to control nature, its not

really, it might, it has its disadvantages.

D: But even, now, get back to Floridaai, ,if we were to consider all

disturbed conditions that go through here that have potential for
//
hurricane development and say at some time somebody decided -tat well,

we should start trying to get rid of all the potential conditions that

could lead to hurricane development all right, then I think that here

in Florida we would be getting into an area where we would be monkeying

around with a significant amount of our precipitation, perhaps as

much as fifty pe cent.

R: Um-hum. Yeah, I mean, like the big ones, but, we do have the so-

called, what we call easterly waves.

D: Yes, in disturbed conditions -a- you get an eastly wave coming through

in the summer timeak0, sometimes i- passee-south of us, but, sometimes

we're right at the northern.edge and they do significantly increase

ou4 precipitation for a day or two. They actually come through about

once every three or four days.

R: Yeah, yeah. Well, it really is interesting, its perfectly a ^A ~






12 =





and,of course, down here we're so, we're all so weather conscious. Isn't

this, but, would you,in all your, you were in Chicago at one time.

D: Yes, that's right.

R: I remember I used to come from Chicago and I remember your name,

you were there for a number of years, weren-'t you?

D: 0O,, I was in Chicago, that was my longest assingment. I was

there sixteen, seventeen years.

R: Yes, because, I can always remember your name being mentioned

about that That was long before you got into the hurricane business.

D: Yes, yes.

R: SE, were you the first of the hurricane people, because this

hasn't always been the National Hurricane Center, that's a fairly

new jobAI st T- .

D: No, that had been set up since I have been here. Now, we have these

other hurricane centers, San Juan, New Orleans, Washington and

Boston,-akr; ut, there's been a gradual evolution since I've been

here, transferring responsibility to this office.aod=aum, well,

for example, for the last two years, they've put the responsibility

on me, the whenever a hurricane is coming inland anywhere, that if

I felt that the warning, say, even to the Boston area, were a

unsatisfactory in some way, aSd I could tell them to change their

warning and they would have to do it. Now, af; beginning at last

year, we began to do actually the forecasting for New Orleans and

for San Juan.--y They still issued the advisories, but they had

to take our forecast and the+.b they would on the basis of the infor-

mation, fundamental data, they would write the advisory. Now,

beginning this year, we're going to do it for everybody& ,n other






13




words, even Boston, and we will make the computations and make

the forecasts, provide them with the fundamental data, but/ they

will write the advisory.

R: Well, in other words they do the prose and you do the calculations.

D: Yes that's right.

R: Ah, is it just then, is it no coincidence that you're on the top

of this computer center, in other words, are you directly using these

computers in this building in your uwa...

D: At the moment, we are using a4 the computers,mostly for research.

Now, as far as computations are concerned SW we are sending the

data to Washington where they have a big, theyihave a even much larger

computer than e ave hereaad then they send the results back to

us down here. Now, eventually we will probably make use of the computer

here for forecasting, but,-.5-.we're, you might say, still experimenting

with the use of computer in operational forecasting& at the moment, the

computer does almost as good but not quite as good as the human

forecaster, aB but/ at times the computer is way off and- so that we usd

it just as an aid and a tool. Now, one reason why we send this up

to Washington is that the arrangement that the university has with the

manufacturer, that they are permitted to give a very good rate, far

below, in factforty or fifty percent of what you can go out and

get this done commercially, in so far as research is done, but/ if

its operational they are required to charge what any other privately

owned computer will charge, so that...

R: I understand, because, research stuff you can stick in in the middle

of the night and you don't have to have it right away.ad. -ak

D: So that financially its much cheaper for us to send the thing up

to Washington.






14



R: Well then why, why do you believe that this was named the

National Hurricane Center since all the data has to be shipped into

Washington anyhow, for operational use& yhy did theyTD {t 7.

D: No, a lot of the data never goes beyond here ye process it and

we reduce it)atLt=. you might say to just a tape, we can send it up

in a couple of minutes, but, the 'par the processing and ter

so forth is all done here.

R: Well, how did it happen that this got here, because, you became

Mr. Hurricane)tre-what, how did that happen historically?

D: Well, historically, first we started out in 1935 with the

decentralization of hurricane forecasting because at Washington...

R: In '35 it would be too slow.

D: What's that?

R: It would of been too slow at that time.

D: Well yes, and also the fact that their energies were diverted in

so many areas that they did4-ct know-specialization. Now, take for

example, in the '26_ hurricaneThe winds reached hurricane force at
one am, the hurricane warningon Miami Beach went up at midnight, -a

and aky the wind was already blowing so strong it took two people

to raise the flag ah, and another time the forecaster in Washington,

and this was aUT in the 1930, it-gs prior to 1935. Galveston is a

very sensitive area because, they remember the 1900 hurricane when

six thousand people were drowned. They put up hurricane warfilngs

for the Galveston area aadsmah at eleven o'clock in the morning well,

the afternoon came along and weather wasn't getting any worse, and ah,-

awh they commenced to wonder, so the Chamber of Commerce sent a

telegram up to Washington, ai what is the hurricane doing,is it

still headed in this direction: and some fool up there who should of







15



known better )Sk sent back ah,7 no additional information, unable to

contact forecaster on golf course." That really raised a mess& well,

finally the pressure from this locality based on the service that they

were getting from Washington was so strong that they had to decentralize

itaaT then they arranged it so that instead of issuing warning, advi-

sories twice a day, they issued them four times a day9ye plotted maps

four times a dayV we had forecasters on duty continuously during the

hurricane seasonandft-ah Then a lot has been done since then to

improve the service. Well, in this area it was done in Jacksonville;

this was started at Jacksonvillep but7then the war came along and the

Navy put in headquarters sh, here at Miami and because of the fact that

hurricanes are just as important to the military as they are to the

civilians, they insisted that the center ah, be transferred from

Jacksonville to Miami.and so this was done, I believe in 1943. Well,

while the Army and the Navy had their own meteorological services they

have agreed that they would accept the forecast and advisories and

everything from the National Hurricane Center and they have called

it a joint operationand so ab, they have felt that Miami, being Qotrpal

centrally located in the hurricane area and also...

R: We-ie- the nearest thing to the Caribbean.
O5- of
D: Yes, that's right and from-the standpoint fesm air transportation

and from the standpoint of communications, everyone thinks that its a

logical place to put itp and hen of course, Miami was also a very

sensitive area because of its high hurricane frequency about this time,

that they thought it desirable to locate it here.

R: Well, then of course, you have your major airlines coming into here,

and so you have a great deal...

D: So that if we have to send somebody)as we often do, like, when the







16



storm was ah, coming very close to San Juan last year, Inez& we sent some

help down to Puerto Rico to help them, ah as it was passing closest to

them and then itcould get on a plane and get back here to Miami ah in

time to help us again when it was coming closer to us5, and so that aE,

it ah- works out very well, we think.

R: Yeah, well it certainly has been...



Pause in the tape and another conversation is resumed, recorded below.



D: New Orleans, San Juan, Miami, Washington, and Boston. Five.

R: Five, andkthis was only one and they were all more or less on

equal stance.

D: Yes, that's right, although Miami, even then, ah, was considered

ak; paramount, ea. because of the fact that ah, here the liaison and

a 1 t 1 Navy and the Air Force Hurricane Hunters, an4-ah,

it was all done out of Miami so Miami had, has always had, since they

moved it down here, a little pre-eminence over the other Hurricane

Centers.

R: Yeah, well, then so that it was, now, you had been in Chicago

all those years, did you come directly from Chicago to Miami?

D: Yes, that's right.

R: Well, then you did just exactly what I did, two years earlier.

D; Yes).

R: Ah, but, then how was it that you were chosen, was this just an

ordinary tour of duty or were you particularly interested in hurricanes

or how did it happen?

D: Well, even though I was in Chicago I was considered the Weather





17



Bureau's princite expert in tropical meteorology, not that anybody knows

too much about tropical meteorology because its still the most

primitive area sh: that we have, but I was Grady Norton's assistant

when they started the center in Jacksonville in '35,andt so that I

assisted him for four years ah, up until the fall of'39 when I was

transferred to Chicago.

R: Yeah.

D: Ad h hen during the war when the military decided they had

twenty thousand office to train in meteorology a4te hey weren't going

to train them all in tropical meteorology but a lot of them because of

the operations in the Pacific and atr so forth.

R: Yeah.

D: They asked the University of Chicago to start an Institute of

Tropical Meteorology in Puerto Rico, ah, which they did,ande so they

asked the Weather Bureau to lend me to them for six months or so to

help them get started down in Puerto Rico. so I went down and helped get

the Institute started down there and -az for six months participated

in the training ardThen they had me come down later on to give lectures

as they shot each group on through. Well, then a little bit later ash

the operation started in the Pacific and particularly the Air Force auh

was concerned about forecasting for B29 operations against Japan. Now,

it was their intention, originally, to bomb Japan from air bases in

China.end-ely-,so they started building five or six air bases, big air

bases in China. They had as many as a hundred thousand Chinese coolies

working on a single air field, so ah, they asked the Weather Bureau to

lend me af to them,.a to train officers in the C.B.I. region for

the B29 operations against Japan.

R: C.B.I. being China, Burma, and India.

D: All right, but, by the time I got over to India, the Japanese, of






18



course, knew what was going on, had captured every field except one.

R: Oh, oh.

D: That was at Cheng Du and that was in the foot hills of the Himalayas.

R: Ah-huh.

D: Now, they could only reach the southernmost island from Cheng Du,

because it was so far away ah4j- nd that is the reason why then they had

to start capturing these islands in the Southwest Pacific like/Guam,

and Saipan and so forthIhy.ayr but- I had gotten over there and so then

they decided that since I was over there that they would send the officers

that they were going to put into that tropical region over there ai%

to Tenth Weather Headquarters,aas which is just outside of Calcutta,

for training They'd send them there for a couple of months and then they

would relocate them somewhere else -o that I stayed there for a year.

and I forecasted for the B29 operations against Southeast Asia, that is

for example, a couple of Jap battleships would appear in Saigon Harbor

and reconnaissance planes would see it and then they'd want to go over

and try to bomb it.

R: That's where you got your iron nerves, I suppose?

D: Yeah. So I was forecast ag- in the bombing operations against

Singapore and Bangkok and so forth, I forecast for those. maIThen,

really, I gave these Air Force officers on-the-job training -aur

forecasting in there ab for a couple months)and then they'd go on

somewhere else and a fresh batch would come in. So, ah,...

R: So, you were the tropical expert in the Department.

D: So, by the time the war was over)I had more experience,really, than

any other meteorologist the Weather Bureau had in the tropics.and-so-

tha&=n&. Grady Norton's health was always rather poor and so that they







19



had me in reserve.and-ah, whenever Grady felt that because of health or

some other reason he would have to retire, it had long been planned to

send me down to take his place% well, of course, actually during

Hurricane Hazel in 1954, Grady Norton had this heart attack, you might

say he died with his boots on during the storm.nd-the-, but, it was

in October and at the end of the season so I didn't come until the

following Spring.

R: Ah-huh, and then since then the whole thing has, has bloomed,

A,koou A. so to speak, so that you are the first person who has in

the history of the Weather Bureau who's had the total responsibility

for the hurricane, for the hurricane C'., .

D: Yes that's right and ah, of course, its only during, oh, I guess it

must of been four years ago that they designated this the National

Hurricane Center and ah, made me Director of i5 and then they've

gradually been expanding its responsibilities.

R: Well, it certainly is an interesting...

D: Yeah.

R: Its an interesting thing and of course, it must of been fascinating

for you, building the whole thing up and starting it, and I can't think

of anything you could do more.

D: Then in addition to that, you've got such assignments as, I went over

to 'bck in East Pakistan for four months, this was back in 1961, to

.a. make...

R: You were just recently over there, too.

D: Yes, I was over there again,aky 1961, I made these recommendations

for the improvement of their cyclone warning service)and then S, this egq

ECFAE, this Economic Commission for Asia and ah, what is it, something

else, Far East. They held this meeting in ik and ah, so I was over






20



there in December for that -^hen.ae, going over to Philipines
M*
probably around the 20th of March y President Johnson's request, that

is7he made Atis promise to President Marcus when he visited over here

a few months ago ah, to make similar recommendations for the Philipines,

aaJdsa, I believe that its the intention of the President that

through A.I.D. to assist the Philipines in doing what's necessary there.

R: You mean for a hurricane, well, of course, there they're called

typhoons- I believe.

D: Yes, that's right.

R: Sort of a typhoon weather center similar to what they have here.

D: Yes, that's right, yeah.

R: Well, they certainly need it because they have tremendous loss of

life there, it seems.

D: Yes, and they have more than three times as many typhoons as

we have hurricanes.

R: .Ser So they really need it. Well, so it sounds to me that

your retirement 6- announced in the papers is just going to be like/

you're going twice as hard with all.

D: Well, I don't think so, ah, ah, I'm going to do pretty much what

my wife wants me to do. and--, I would like to 6 //
these lines in foreign countries but she say, well, if you have

a nice home in Coral Gables, ab why run off to the Philipines for ...

actually, I've been approached- a job over thereafter my retirement,

but T don't think I will take it becuase/she doesn't like Manila

too well and ah, and ah...





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