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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 1
M: This is February 23rd, 1977. I'm in the home of Mr.
and Mrs. Wise, the child and son-in-law of Mr. Hal
Batey, and I'm interviewing Mr. Hal Batey at 4:10 in
the afternoon. This /s Joyce Miller. And I'd like
to start by asking Mr. Bateyr,.0fy how the family came
to Gainesville in the first place. Where did he start
and, li; by what route did they come to Gainesville,
for what purpose.
B: Well, we moved to Jacksonville from Tennessee in 1912
and opened a wholesale grocery business, Bately-Flemming
Company. We did quite well and in 1921 we decided we
wanted to have a branch out of Jacksonville, and we come
to Gainesville and opened a wholesale grocery ourselves,
1921. And we had four children that were born in Jacksonville,
and #4 they all went to school here in Gainesville. And,
f(rt, we did right well here in the wholesale grocery business,
too. We sold out in 1932 to the Central Grocery Company,
and 4y since then I've been almost retired, but j the
boys have been in some kind of business, and I've been
helping them a little bit.
M: Okay, what made the, xii5i Gainesville have an appeal. Why
/ I
would, i a wholesale grocer want to come to Gainesville.
B: We thought we'd like to raise our children in a smaller town
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 2
than Jacksonville. And we thought Gainesville was
a small town. At that time Gainesville was a small town.
But it grew as fast as the children, or faster.
M: So you were already married at that time and had the
children.
B: Oh, yeah, I married in Jacksonville in 1910. And 41
four in our family married that same year. And -1, my
brother and his wife had their sixty-sixth wedding anniver-
sary last year, and they're still living in Jacksonville.
M: And what year were you born?
B: I was born in 1883.
M: 1883.
B: 1883, March the 12th, in Mur$Wsborod&, Tennessee.
And I came to Gainesville...
M: In MIurphtr.sborogKi, Tennessee?
B: Uh huh.
M: Oh, I know where that is, I've been there.
B: And jinj in 1905, I came to Jacksonville, and just on a
visit, I didn't expect to stay. But 1, I did stay and
ti, went to work for a wholesale grocery house there.
C. W. Company, who were from, Gainesville
I
citizens. And I stayed with them till we went in business
in 1912.
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 3
M: Now when your storeL/fSt one of the branch, did you
maintain the Jacksonville store when the branch moved
here at the same time?
B: Yes, yes, we maintained it. It was __ac- as the
main office. And we opened also another place at Ocala.
We had three places. And t1) in 1932 we sold out every-
thing to the Central Grocery Company.
M: Okay, when you came here and located in the 220s, where
was the business at that time? Where was it located?
B: .F'Y we built a warehouse on what was then Masonic
z. A-
Street, SW 2nd Avenue now, a~t the T & J railroad crossing.
We built a warehouse there, it's still there now. And
5l' then we built a cremery building there, and a cold
A
storage plant there. And we had quite a complex of build-
ings there. But we sold all that too. And.4< the Cox
Furniture Company now still owns, they rent that building.
M: They rent. Now wasj/"l; Mr. Stringfellow in that same
business when you were in the business?
B: Yes, he was Thorton Stringfellow, Hart Stringfellow's
daddy.
M: Uh hum.
B: Yeah he was. Well his business was a little different from
mine, but not much. It was about the same.
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 4
M: What differences would you note in the businesses?
B: Well I was more in the grocery business and he was
more in thegl / in the feed business and the building
materials business. They always leaned a little bit
to material, paint, and stuff like that. And I didn't
I stayed with the groceries.
M: Strictly groceries. Then you would sell groceries then
to the retail stores in town.
B: Yes, at that time there were many retail, independent
retail stores all over the country. And 4 there wasn't
any supermarkets at that time. And a we had lots of
customers here in Gainesville and in surrounding territories
in Alachua County and in Levy County, too.
M: So in other words, you wouldn't just sell into Gainesville,
but you would sell to the surrounding area also.
B: Yeah, oh yeah. We had three salesmen that worked out of
Gainesville and ,gq one of them worked in the city all
the time and two worked around Gainesville, as far as
Cedar Key, as far as l[ cU on the south, and Hawthorne,
and Waldo and Starke, and Vk ..
M: Okay, in 1929, when the d)c erwell in '26 things were already
getting bad in Florida with the land bust going so bad, did
that and the 1929 depression have an effect on your business?
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 5
B: Well it did, it certainly did. But we were able to
weather the storm, but /iT; we lost a good deal of money.
And 6j when we, we come out, we paid everybody off.
We didn't fail, but we sold out and quit.
M: Is the reason you sold out in '32 because of that?
B: Because we were still losing money and that's the only
way we knew how to stop it was to sell out and quit.
So we did, we did just that.
M: Was there a great personal effect on your family? Was
your family ever not able to eat?
B: No, there wasn't, we had, we hadql;(j, we had something
left, we weren't just entirely broke. And ui, as children
were still active in school. And l, we had a lot of fun
with our children. And I did, and my wife did too, I
think. And they, they always helped everywhere. The boys,
I had three boys and a girl. And r^ they were men right
from the start, they were little men. And they could take c-
hand and help. They could drive trucks and drive cows,
and look after cows in ie pasture. They were, they were
very helpful, very helpful. And while we didn't have quite
as much money to spend at that timeI Xhy, they, they knew
it and they accepted it. There wasn't nobody griping at all.
We was all just getting along doing the best we could.
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 6
M: Would they be actually paid employees at your business?
B:
M: Vi they actually work in you business and get paid for
working in your business before it closed in '32?
B: Yes, yes, well they didn't, they didn't exactly get paid
a certain salary, but they got money all the time. Some
money, the7didn't, .0% they wasn't,-~y they weren't
shorted. They had, they had ponies, and goats and horses
later on, and automobiles a little later on too. And
they, AQ they lived pretty good.
M: Well at the time of the depression, did some of your retail
stores find that they could not afford pay you for some of
the products?
B: Yeah, plenty, plenty of them couldn't pay, they couldn't
pay,,they didn't have anything to pay with. And A-s they,
they were honest people, but Abl they just, the banks was
closing up and some of them lost money in the banks, and
we lost some too. And #Lt4 but t1&*1 we managed to get along
and ~l we were pretty good collectors, and 44 we showed
people sometimes how they could pay us when they didn't
know how they could pay us.
M: How would you do that?
B: Well we'd do that for a {UL.L4r a man, maybe down there
I
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 7
running a rock mine, says I can't sell my rock, and
I can't sell my rock, then I can't pay, cause I can't
sell it. And I said "well, if I can sell the rock, how
about letting me, charge the rock to me{' They *Vbe glad
to do it. Glad to just give us enough to pay for getting
it out of the hole!' Well we had some success like that
cause we sold some of those rock, limerock dealers. And
they were good honest people, but they just, then everyone
couldn't pay, but they paid us that way. And then I
remember one, it was in the,/ 4 it was in the, 4 they
run a nursery. And \vpwMr. .: r', sr S ,we just haven't
got any money," said we just can't pay y. And i, I said
\ well, you got any orange trees" And he said,"yeah, we got
plenty orange trees. And I said well suppose I.can sell
some orange trees, and you charge them to me and let me
collect from the man,' and says yessir, yessir, go right
ahead.t And he put a price on the orange trees and we sold
the orange trees and we got the money that way. Well,.it
happened that way several in places over the country.
Some times for cattle and sometimes for land, sometimes,
just, we were pretty good collectors, pretty good collectors,
and we was dealing with honest people, too. They wanted
to pay, but couldn't.
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 8
M: Now you mentioned some of the townspeople losing money
and your own loss of some money. Were you, did you keep
your money in the+ir-er Bank?
B: We had some in the R1fieffrY Bank when they closed up yes.
But we got most of that ba fk, I think we got it all back,
eventually. But we also started out in the Gainesville
Bank and Trust Company that failed too. I don't know
now whether we lost money in that or not, but I'm sure
we must have lost some. Then we've been with the First
National Bank every since then.
M: And Lee Graham was still there when you got involved in
First National.
B: Yeah, Lee Graham was still there, and he was a very fine,
shrewd banker, hard as nails, and 0A he knew how to run
the bank, he knew how to run the bank.
M: The banking company that you just mentioned, Gainesville
Bank and Trust Company, you just mentioned that...
B: That was Morgan Finnel, Morgan Finnel, they called it his
bank, but 4 it might, it might not have been his bank,
I don't reckon it was, but anyhow, he was the president
of it, Morgan Finnel and Holly Robinson run the bank.
M: And did that one, 4f6 that one closed...
B: That one closed up...
AL 36A Side One Page 9
bd
M: Did it never reopen?
B: ...before any of them, that one closed before any of them
closed up. That closed...
M: Oh I see.
B: ...same time that one closed up, they closed up the Trenton
and Alacua, and pt and maybe Micanopy, too. I don't
remember whether that, we had a bank in Micanopy at that
time, V\ And I think, I think they all closed
at that time. And, -uj',. Bill Pepper and ii; Ed Turner.,ohvb
worked those, they were trustees for those banks, and they
finally closed them all out and, and I don't remember whether
we lost any money or not, but I expect we did. We
might have lost some indirectly, you know. Have _rco__S on
somebody, they couldn't pay it.
M: Right. Now how did you go from being involved in,-ha, a
food wholesale business to getd involved in politics?
B: In politics? Well I really wasn't in politics. I was,ce,
this commission form of government; 1i0Tf commenced in 1927.
M: Um hum.
B: And I was doing a nice driving business down there and SA,
had a reputation of being a good business man, a~
I reckon. I think I did. And Xfl/; some of the,; fi'(uh' city
fathers came down to see me and said'now we want you to
U
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 10
run for city commission And I said no, I said I'm just
a boy. You get some grown man. I felt like a boy, I was
a pretty old man, though, I was 47 or something like that.
And I don't know nothing about city business, As politics.
They said,\well you don't have to know nothing about politics.
We'll elect you, we'll run the election./ Which they did,
and they elected me, and I stayed on there, the city commis-
sion for ten years, through 1937.
M: Um hum. How, what was it like, 3,iM the debate between
changing governmental systems and going to the commission
system. Was that a big change for Gainesville?
B: It was a big change, it was a big change for everybody.
And, AP4 we had a charter that/, '~ didn't allow any salary
for thefiiy commissions. It was all, free job. And d-,
they had a city manager, in this charter it was outlined
that we had a city manager. And the city manager should
run the city but he's answerable to the commission. The
commission .J of five people. I forgot who those
five were now, but Lee G aham was one, and Rod Laden was
one. And 617~ and Bill Shands was one, and j4...
M: I can't think off had either. But...
B: I don't know who the other one was now, but it wasn't, 4f
it wasn't Fred Winston. But later on Fred Winston was on
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 11
there.
M: So it was much later then that commissioners got paid?
They did not get paid at the beginning?
B: No, they didn't get paid for a long time after that, long
time after that. I don't know the did in, they've been
on the payroll now for several years, I don't know how
many, but A...
M: Why would people be against changing to that kind of system
to the commission system.
B: Well I don't think there was much opposition to it. I don't
think there was. We didn't have much trouble. We have to
have a bill pass through legislature to change it. Change
the charter. And (IG we had some very activeC4thqr citizens
here at that time, and we still have. But Norman Pash and
Major Thomas, and xr) Norman, whole family of Pash's were
very active in, A4; civic affairs. And . Baxter
was very active too, and Adison Powell, and Bill Shands,
and ,t they all were far-sighted, and Lhi, this first
commission they appointed was made principal, Lee Grimm
made commissioners out of all of us. He had been a, on
the board of control or something like that for the city.
before that. And (tf he was familiar with the city. And
he knew a lot about finances, i we didn't, many of us know
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 12
much about, except we knew we had money or we didn't.
And tAh we had a, and our main aim was that lSh Lee
h'i, Lee Graham was his fault, his cause of it I think
was to get out of debt. We owed a little money, I don't
how much now, it was very little compared to what we owe
now. And uh, we were trying to get that paid off and
trying to get the taxes down. And we had a very paying
electric plant, utilities was very profitable and just
about run the city, and they have a lot to do with it now.
M: Um hum. Well when you were a commissioner in '31, ug
I guess Rodney Laten was the mayor at that time, but then
by '34 you had been chosen as mayor. Was it...
B: I was, I was mayor in 1929, 30, and '31.
M: In 1929, 30, and '31?
B: Uh huh.
M: And then did you...
B: Three consecutive years.
M: ...and did you serve again in '34 as mayor?
B: Oh I served, but not as mayor. But the mayor was not
elected as mayor. He was elected as a commissioner, and
then the commissioners appointed a chairman, elected a
chairman, and he carried that name as mayor. And tW,
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 13
-aS ai-t he didn't run as mayor, he run as a commissioner.
They still do that now.
7
M: Right. And how long would a person be elected for office.
How long...
B: They had it, they had it spotted, one year and two years,
and three years. And a I don't know how mine run, but
anyway,4 Mj I had some of all of that diag' them ten years.
So it wouldn't be, it wouldn't change the whole slate.
M: Um hum.
B: They'd change one or two every year.
M: But just to, okay, so that there would be some consistency
then, it wouldn't change all at one time.
B: Yeah, that's right.
M: And then your fellow commissioners would go ahead and
select a mayor, and he would just be one of those commissioners.
B: That's right.
M: Okay, 41 now they used to have political rallies down on
the courthouse square both for state office and, well
0- ,p x I
especially state office of tUe state personA coming in, but
even for local office. What was it like at a political
rally at the courthouse?
B: Well I didn't attend much. I didn't do much polititing
myself. wff my friends, xf4 elected me nearly every time,
Al 36A Side One
bd Page 14
and V* I never, I don't know that I ever spent any, any
time, -& soliciting votes. I let everybody know I'd
be glad to serve if I was elected, but if the other man
looked better to them, well go ahead and vote for him.
And XX there, it was very active. Some of them was just
as hot as, hot as fire, you know. And, 41y but I didn't,
I didn't get that hot.
M: Well did you ever go down to listen to the state candidates
when they came through town?
B: Oh yes, yes, yes I went down and listened to~-em.
M: But was it a big social event, or was it social and political?
B: Oh it wasn't social at all. It was business, it was getting
votes. That's what they wanted, votes. That's what they
wanted, votes.
M: What about the power of the democrats in the '30s in the
state, with Gov. Shdltz being in office and Franklin
Roosevelt. Was there a strong push for democrats?
B: Yes, they were all democrats, all the time. There's
more republicans now than there's ever been before.
M: Um hum.
B: All democrats.
M: Which faction were you in, were you in the wool hat or the
silk hat faction?
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 15
B: What?
M: Do you recall the wool hat faction under Tench and the
silk hat faction under Lee Graham and Pound?
B: I think I must have been called under the wool hat
I imagine. I don't know, I don't think was, I wasn't
high hatted. (Chuckle).
M: What was the difference between the wool hats and the
silk hats? What did they want different in town?
B: Well I'll tell ya, I believe the silk hats had something
th9 we couldn't appreciate. They wanted to have improve-
ments thatAyi we didn't thing were necessary. For
instance when, TI1'r. in 1932, or, 4t; when Roosevelt was
trying to get the country back on their feet7 /hey were
putting in airports all around over the country. If
you furnish the land the government would put the airport
down for you practically. And our, ra~ t 4- o
commission, we didn't think we needed an airport, and 4114
Lee Graham said we might need one in fifty years, and
di4 Gainvesville's just like it was fifty years ago. Of
course it wasn't, but he, he felt like it was, he'd been
there all the time. So finally, Itg we decided well, if
they're going to do that well we'll buy a piece of land
out here and make good form out of it after they get
through playing with it for a airport. And .f.y of course
the airport grew, grew and grew and grew. It never did
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 16
slack up. We As.&at-the airport before we go it. But
we wasn't far-sighted enough to see it. But the silk
hats could see a little further than that they was, they
were smarter.
M: Were they, *f the richer people in town, or did it not
make a difference into which group you got in?
B: I don't know that that money had anything to do with
it. I think it justcivic pride, and people in the know-
how that could see, people could see further than their
nose, you know. There's, 4% we had some mighty good
businessmen in town that wasn't on the commission, but
they were very active, and I' and they had suggested to
make it as good, \-1 Stringfellow was one. He was
very smart, that's Hart Stringfellow's faddy.
M: Um hum.
B: And hg Major Thomas was a very active and helpful citizen,
one of the best businessmen Gainesville ever had, I think.
And Bill Shands was outstanding all the time. And e,
of course all of them did pretty well for themselves, but
they, while they were helping others, they had to help
themselves, beca e they owned o~?.The city. They owned
a lot of Gainesville.
AL 36A SideOne
bd Page 17
M: What about in terms of chain stores, was there a difference
in the two factions in reference to chain stores, and
trying to keep chain stores from coming into town?
B: Well there was at one time, iT'; something like that, a
state law that, ui,''Qh- that prohibited, made a penalty
for a man, for a place to have two or three stores.
M: Um hum.
B: I don't remember just how that law was, but,19- it
was more tax. And fh-, that was fighting, really fighting
the chain stores then, ",\ which was a mistake. We
ought not to fought4lem when that's a, it's a logical
way to dispense food stuff now.is a chain store. Make
it much more sanitary than it used to be.
M: So then you weren't~.4fi,- at all upset when a chain store
-7
like Piggly Wiggly came to Gainesville.
B: No, no, I sold Piggly Wiggly some of the stuff that they
bought when they first come in.
M: Um hum.
B: Fred Bolin was the manager and somebody else was helping
him out of Jacksonville. I don't know, I forgot who it
was now. But he made, he made a very 1_____ success
out of that Piggly Wiggly store. And Fred is still here.
M: What other '\i, chain stores were there in town?
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 18
B: Well then, &0, the first one came was Winn Dixie; what
they called the /r- crT) iY> was right up there in
front of the Episcopal Church now oneith,, 1st Street.
And 4,p$ they did a big business there. And then A&P
was down there across from the old post office on the
corner where the Chevrolet company was for a long time.
And L., of course they were a chain, the A&P, but a mighty
good store. And then after that, why Margaret Ann moved
out here and changed the name to Winn Dixie.
M: Um hum. Do you know which group, which group was for the
bkf chain stores? Was that the Lee Graham group, or was
Judge Tench'group?
B: No, they were, they were, some of them were just hands off.
There wasn't anybody fighting the chain stores except the
wholesale grocers, they were trying to fight for their life.
M: Um hum.
B: But we didn't do us any good cause there were, they were
frc-e-Ae %rj-cJ.-4
foaaiwt. The chain stores were fe al.
M: What kind of interaction did you have with Benjamin Tench,
-7
as he was acting... ,
B: Benjamin Tench?
M: Um hum.
B: Well Benjamin he was hard of hear as I am now, only worse
6
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 19
I think. And Ben would, ^,he had, he was smart. He
knew a lot about city affairs, and state affairs, and
a good deal about politics. And so did Jim Dale, Dr.
Jim Dale. And then, -vhhe was on the commission while
I was there. And oncee in a while he'd get all hot,
jump up and pull off his coat and he wouldn't let nobody
insult him. And I'd say well Ben nobody didn't say a
word about youq he thought somebody had said something
critical about him, Icause he couldn't here. But nobody
said a word about, about you." "I thought he said something'
n nolI said,1he didn't say nothing about you at all Ben.
He'd put his coat back on. (Chuckle). But he was a very
active citizen. He was,- 1f probably helpful in many ways.
M: Do you recall something called the 4 tie'd~ry .. square
deal club?
B: What?
M: Sqvre Deal Club?
B: Square Deal Club, I don't remember that.
M: Okaypback in the130s, ft, there were some articles written
about you and...
B: I've done forgot where we were.
M: Okay, well we were talking about an organization called
square deal club.
i::r- Z7-
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 20
B: Yeah, I didn't remember about that.
M: Okay, I read some advertisements that this organization
said that you and Mr. Fred Winston favored utilities
too much. And they implied that perhaps you were getting
something back from the utility company. So what was
your involvement in terms of the utilities companies?
B: None whatever. None whatever, we didn't, we didn't have
any more to do with it than the city manager who was
handling utilities.
M: But what was the argument? Were they saying that, uh,...
B: Well they tried to always, it was always somebody trying
to think about,.:-u', the city trying to sell out to the
Florida Power Company.
M: Um hum.
B: Because they offered us, the Florida Power Company offered
us a lot of money for our plans, offered to take it all
over. And O( but there were some smart people in there
that didn't want to do that. And it wasn't the commissioners
that was trying to please the people, and didn't feel like
taking the business out their hands all together. And so
we didn't, we didn't do it, and didn't intend to do it.
Didn't try to do it. But there was a few people that said
it's more economical to buy it than it is to make it. But
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 21
Thorton Stringfellow said if it cost two dollars to make
it and you can buy it for a dollar, go ahead and pay
them the two dollars. Thorton, he was smart, he said
keep that utility plant. lCause it was the main, it was
the heartstrings of the city, you see.
M: Okay so the whatever profit came from the utility company
could be used for city projects.
B: Yeah, it was, it was, and it kept our taxes down. And
everybody run our business with the revenue from the
utilities.
M: Well what year did Gainesville begin its own utility plant?
B: Oh I, they started way back there, they never did buy
it I don't think. We buy,.rf, we bought, .40, stand-by
se vice from Florida Power Company, but d~kx I think they've
been making there all the time, I reckon they have, ever
since I've been here.
M: So before you, before you ever came here then, they were
already, they already had the plant going here.
B: Yeah, they had the plant, they had the plant there. But
of course now it's a tremendous thing now you know, but
it wasn't so big then.
M: And what was, }ih\ the name John Kelly, how did he get
involved in utilities?
AL 36A Side One
bd Page 22
B: Well John Kelly was an electrical engineer and he was
a real good one, and pl, he was,tlk, he run that plant
and just practically, i.f run the utilities for a long
time, and very profitable, too. He was a very good
engineer and he knew what he was doing, and he was honest,
and d ...
M: Did he run it as early as the 130s, or was this later that
he began to run it?
B: Oh he, he run it up until about, I think John's been
off now maybe seven or eight years. He run it for a long
time. He retired from the city. He stayed there that
long.
M: Um hum. But did he start as early as thel30s running
that plant?
B: Oh, yeah. I think so, I think, I don't know just exactly,
but I. (Chuckle) Hey there Misty.
M: Oh I guess he saw, is this the one that's been barking?
Hi, I'm going to turn this over.
END OF SIDE ONE
AL 36A Side Two
bd Page 23
M: What kind of relationship did the town commission have
with the university? Was the university just something
separate that they never considered, or was there...
B: It was very, very friendly, and we got along fine with
4-
them. But the university, a d one time,fih:r, in I don't
know how many years, they bought power from the power
company, Florida Power Company instead of the city of
Gainesville. And the city of Gainesville was giving them
water all the time. We felt like we ought to have the
electrical business. And uLh' but we had, they had to buy
it competitively and, Wk they out bid us, and(4tJ they
bought from Florida Power Company. I don't know what,
who uses, whether they use ours now or not. But they
probably do. I hope they do.
M: Is this the only kind of interaction they had with the
university, or...
B: That's all, they used, that was the only squabble we
had at all was about that free water, and the fdhb, original
agreement way back yonder when Major Thomas wasi\Uh-, one
of the men that give a lot of land out there were the
university is.
M: Um hum.
B: And \\I, they agreed the city would furnish the water. And
*, W
AL 36A Side Two
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and _41_- grew up to be a big city, you know,
and it takes a heap of water. But since then, they've
put in wells of their own, and %\ they use ours too,
but 4 they use a lot of water that's not ours, too.
They pump a lot of water.
M: But the, 1A~, there were no* university professors, or
university people, sitting on the commission at that
time?
B: No, no.
M: The commission was city people.
B: No, I don't we had, we had a few# A& visitors that came \-
and -1isiae to these meetings from the university they
had je, had a proposition, different things they, projects
they thought ought to be done. And we appreciated what
they had to say, and sometimes we did what they wanted,
and sometimes we couldn't. But x4t, we had always tried
to work with the university. In fact, we knew the university
was a big asset to Gainesville, and fig we appreciated.
At the same time, we A, we had an idea, we felt like they
ought to pay for the water, they ought to buy the electric
LO r from us, which they did most of the time.- c 0
M: Did you know John Tigert yourself?
B: Very well.
Al 36A Side Two
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M: And what kind of interaction was there with Tigert?
B: Tigert was, he was alight, he was a good friend of
mine, and v I knew his 0^ predecessor, 4p, the
man ahead of him.
M: Murphree?
B: Ew Murphree2 M5e'
M: Um hum.
B: He was a fine man too. John Tigert he come from, dS
I think he come from Tennessee or Kentucky. I come from
Tennessee so we... John and I felt, and we knew some
people that, *4 that we had both known when we was
younger. In fact my first cousin and John went to school
at Bellbuckle, Bonnie Webb run her school, IKA Bellbuckle
was a, for'Lw i l, boys. I mean he broke 'em. He
whipped 'em after they got to be great big men. (Chuckle)
And they, and John ____y i they went
there to school. And they both went and graduated through
and went to Vanderbilt university, Nashville.
M: Um hum.
B: And up John was a, he was a part-time, he was a football
player and part of the time he was a football coach. And
I thought, I thought was a very good president of the
University of Florida. He lacked a little bit of serving
twenty years, I think.
AL 36A Side Two
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M: Um hum.
B: But )l I think he did pretty well. He was a good politician
himself.
M: What about, 6 the meetings of the commission? How
often did they meet, the commission?
B: I think we met once a month. Seemed like to me it was
once a month.
M: And that would be at the courthouse?
B: Unless we called a special meeting.
M: At the courthouse?
B: No, at the city hall.
M: At the city hall.
B: We had a city building then it was on the corner of, well
it was right there in front of the church. Right across
the street from the Episcopal Church on 1st Street now.
M: Um hum.
B: And nice building. They pushed it down to build
something there recently. But 4jlq it was a fine building,
it was a good building.
M: Now what about the interaction between the commission and
the state legislature. Did you have a lot of influence
on the state legislature?
B: Well, we had one controversy when the, when the state road
AL 36A Side Two
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department wanted to build a, wanted to pave 9th Street,
which is 13th Street now. And all the merchants on the
square though they were going to run all the trade around
Gainesville instead of letting them come downtown. At
that time Alabama Street, which is 6th Street now came
right in from High Springs and Alachua right on to the
square. And 4L and they could, figured that, wellI
open road back there, west of that, all our traffic would
get away from us that we'd been getting. And 4t they
fought that thing for two years before they got finally
lost, the people that were fighting it. I wasn't one
of the fighting kind on that. I wasn't, I never did think
we could have too much road. But the merchants uptown
was the ones that were really pushing, and Major Thomas
too, he was against it too. ICause he had, at that time
he had the Whitehouse Hotel which was on the railroad tracks.
The railroad used to run right up through the middle of
town, right on the square. And the train stopped there
at noon for dinner at the hotel. And it was profitable
to Major I reckon. And tI1 but they finally got, they
lost -1- So:' after, I think it took about two years
squabbling about that thing. But we r, have all appreciated
13th Street since then, and now we've gone way out
13th Street since then, and now we've gone way out theei 56th.
AL 36A Side Two
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M: What about, dYf4 at that time Billy Mathews was one of
the state legislatures from this area.
B: Billy Mathews, it was Billy Mathews wasn't it?
M: Yeah, right. And also...
B: Hawthorne.
M: Right from Hawthorne.
B: Yeah.
M: And also, uh, Mr. Bucholz.
B: Fritz Bucholz.
A (
M: Right was a legislatde for a while.
B: yes.
M: Did you, were they good representatives of what the
commission wanted?
B: Yes, they were, they were honest. They were honest repre-
sentatives. They did the best they could, the best the
could.
M: And what kinds of things would they push for for the city?
B: Well I, I don't remember now particularly what they pushed,
but they were, they were very active and honest and
thought they were doing the right thing.
M: Um hum.
B: Was Fritz on the, was Fritz on the legislature?
M: Just for a short while.
AL 36A Side Two
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B: He was?
M: Um hum, both, both he and Mathews served one term.
B: Well I never, I never, Billy was on that.
M: This is the state legislature in Tallhassee.
B: Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
M: Uh huh.
B: But I forgot about Fritz being on that, welllI knew
him mighty well too, and his daddy too.
M: What about blacks? Were there blacks like Mr. Chesnut
that would, I%* be active in city government? Maybe not
in an elected position, but in a non-elected position?
B: Who?
M: Blacks, blacks in the community.
B: LucAs Black?
M: No, black people in the community.
B: Black people in the community, didn't have...
M: Like Charles Chesnut, Sr.
B: Yeah, well Charles Chesnut, Sr. was a, he was a representative
public man, and always was, respected by all the white
people. And most the niggers I thought was treated right.
But, Jf theywasn't treated quite as good as they ought +o
have been treated. They didn't, they didn't have as much
privilegeSas the white people. And 46, I think it's been a
AL 36A Side Two
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good, good change. I think it's been a good change.
There's,,4%3 I don't know how long it will take us
to,4^ti to get settled on this integration question.
But Ai it's better than it was, it's a lot better
than it was. Of course we got, ,l black people now
living in houses with running water, hot water and cold
water and bath tubs, and they've never had that before.
And it's a big change for them. And then another thing
there's more money in circulation now then there ever has
been in my life time. And they're able to keep these
places up pretty well. They're doing a good job at I
think. There was a few black politicians, t1, and Charlie
Chesnut was one, and I don't know what, I can't think of
that old boy's name that was a policeman at one time here.
And he was active too in the politics. But the$ wasn't
many black voters, they didn't vote much. There was a
few, but none. But the never, I don't think we ever refused
to let them register. I don't remember they ever, ever
refused to let them register.
M: But they just didn't come out to vote.
B: No, they just, they didn't know how to be, how to be interested
probably. Didn't know what the issues were or didn't
understand them or...
AL 36A Side Two
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M: Um hum. What, did the city own property during the
(dsdEs, and what property did the city own?
B: Well, they owned, they owned a whole lot of property. They
didn't own as much as they own now. But I" they come
in possession of some property by taxes and things like
that. And \ they owned, ., they kept on spreading out
down there at the light plant, the utilities place. Broaden-
ing out and buying land all the time. And they bought
some land on the edge of town. Of course they had a lot
to do with the land we bought out there for the airport.
And *Ib, wasn't nothing like the property that they own now.
The city owns lots of property now.
M: Like it was easy when Whitworth's building...
B: We felt like, we felt like it was better to have it on the
taxablest than it was for the city to own it. And 4 there
was always kind of controversy in there about4,-rt taxes
being exempt on properties that belonged to religious organ-
izations, and fraternities. We didn't, we didn't think it
was always right, we didn't think it was right Because
we felt sure that some of those people, that some of those
places were rented out for money. And hjv they were supposed
to be exempted, supposed to be used for church property,
church purposes. But we never did get anywhere with any,
AL 36A Side Two
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getting any, getting it changed, it's ill like that
now.
M: Um hum.
B: But lots of property on the books now, that l0 I think
ought to be assessed with taxes that are not. ButJ*
maybe I'm wrong.
M: What was the relationship between the county commission
and the city commission?
B: Very amicable, very amicable. At night, I don't know
what the date was, but jyS back when theea Seagle
Building was a skeleton and ..yg John Seagle died and his
sister had the, had that property, the made the city
commission a proposition and the county commission too,
that if they would, jOg give her $20,000 and go ahead and
finish that building called it the Seagle Building, she
would qh(, shr would give a deed to it. And so they, we
did. We paid $10,000 and the county paid $10,000, and then
we give to the University of Florida, and A the state
finished it up. \Course that was before your time. But...
M: Right, uh hum. But it was,\1,, that was all done in the
t swent+es was when it stopped...
B: I think it was.
M: ...and then in the -ie-ses, in the t4tams is when they
AL 36A Side Two
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finally got it done.
B: Yeah.
M: Um hum. What were some of the problems in government.
Was there a problem, hEl with zoning as early as the
B: Well, it was a little problem cause it was new, we didn't
start that zoning till a long time after the commission
was formed. I don't think we did. And wg, it was really
so new that some of us never did understand it exactly.
But A we began to get enlightened as it worked out, -s~irkr
..al.j\g,":and we think nowt it's very essential. Zoning d
/-I
very essential. But there were certain people that o-A,
that wanted zoning, certain stuff zoned a certain way,'cause
it effected them. And ) we couldn't do it because it
wasn't, it wasn't, we didn't see it was right to do it. We
had to squabble a little bit about that, but it got along.
M: What about supplying services? Like medical care and police
service? Was that a problem for a city to do?
B: Well, we it always, it always was a problem to have enough
policemen, we didn't have many when we started out. And
i we didn't have a city jail and they used to put the
prisoners in the county jail. The sheriff charged us so
much for keeping them for us, and k4 there was somebody
AL 36A Side Two
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always on the commission that wanted to build a jail
for the city and, affV % somebody was wanting to not
build one because we thought it'd be cheaper to let the
county, use the county facilities, but it got so big
the had to change it.
M: Where was the county jail?
B: The county jail was on the corner of, # I think Magnolia
Street and 4k which is the street runs right in from of
the post office now, is that 3rd Avenue?
M: Uh huh.
B: I think that's where it was. And , maybe about, maybe
about 5th Street north and south, \ east and west street.
M: And when, when did the city finally build its jail? Much
later?
B: They built this jail, I think they built that jail after
I got off the commission, they built that jail down on
6th Street. And then they built a jail out there, county
jail, you know, out there on 4th Street, south Fuller Street
we used to call it.
M: Okay. l- were there other governmental problems that
the city, JJ;y had to face in the t-h1ieeos? What about
in terms of the depression? Did that have an effect on
the city government?
AL 36A Side Two
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B: Well we had a heap of delinquent 'g facilities, utilities
bills, but a, we finally worked them out somehow and got
along with it. But there was, some people had a terrible
time paying their utilities. They had a terrible time
paying everything. It was hard, money was tight. There
wasn't any money, much.
M: Did you have to rent part of city hall to the national
government for WPA offices and stuff to keep the city hall
going?
B: I don't know whether we, I don't know whether we rented to
them or not, but we give, they was in there. I forgot, --'2 \
George Carnes was the, was the city manager at that time.
And .wy{they it,) Estis Baxter was very active in having
the WPA and offices here, and and got some of them here.
We had a good many of them here. But rr there were some
things that some of us couldn't stand, and that was *0,,
girls like you having a black boss. t, we couldn't, we
couldn't, we couldn't take that, 2.4 we just couldn't take
that. It wasn't, it wasn't in the book for us at all. And
agf we had a little squabble about that, but we got by.
And, )% we got the black men moved and white men put in,
and we got some black girls maybe to work for them. But
of course it wasn't, it wasn't that bad, but we thought it
AL 36A Side Two
bd Page 36
was awful bad, we thought it was terrible.
M: Did the city have to set up any kind of charities for
people who couldn't afford to eat?
B: Well we started, started way back there when, Ai first
I remember about it, Miss Sally Walker, that is Thornton
Stringfellow's sister was very active in trying to help
the n )u people that needed help. Andfrr we
had about, A4q six or eight, 4,i people on our list that
we had to furnish groceries to every month, or something
like that. Well that kept growing and kept growing and
kept growing. They kept wanting more money all the time
for that. And/Z< of coursessome of us old moss backs,
why we, k~h thought they ought to get out and work. And
jiS> Sally was very, she was very vigilent looking after
those. And Vt they started to milk, the milk place down
there were they give them milk every day, and the city paid
for that milk. And then -41, Miss, .d, my goodness my, what
is that girl name? Old man <7 D-\
Lottie Shaffer, she got to be the social worker, the head
of the social department, and to, she really pushed it up
and got to be big. Got to be big. And maybe it ought have
been. We didn't, we didn't think so, but maybe it ought
have been.
M: Now you used the term moss back, is that a cracker term?
AL 36A Side Two
bd Page 37
B: Well that moss back means an old fqggy, an old fog~g.
(Chuckle).
M: Oh, okay, & do you see that there's been a big change
in the commission between when you were on it and what
it's like now, and if so what's been that change?
B: Well, they, l the big change is it's a whole lot bigger
than it used to be, and there's a lot of financing to be
figured out, and it takes somebody on, there that knows
something about financing to make a good commissioner.
And 4, the taxes and the, and getting that balanced, budget
balanced, and getting the budget in the right shape. And
uh, it takes a good deal of time, and it takes somebody
with some brains, *\ it's a big business now. It's a big
business, I don't know how big it is, but it's big.
M: What was the budget like when you were a commissioner, ttF
in terms of...
B: Well I can't...
M: ...how much money?
B: ...I can't remember what it was, but it was so, it was just,
it was so little you couldn't hardly mention it now compared
to the budget we have now. Seemed like to me it was something
like \ $200,000 or something like that, a year.
M: About $200,000?
AL 36A Side Two
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B: Seemed like that, but that's a guess now.
M: Yeah, right.
B: It's been a long time.
M: Um hum.
B: But j 4,but it's been growing, and i when I come to
Gainesville in '21 I think we had about,. ,' seems like
we had about 78,000 people here. Maybe not quite that
many. And very few paved streets. And they got a lot
of streets paved, and they got, improvements kept coming
along.
M: Do you think the people were more interested in government
then or now?
B: Well I believe the percentage would be just about the same.
Because there's more people now, and -l and of course
there ,.'ro. there'd be some each side, some don't care and
some say well they're gonna do what ever they want to do
anyhow, so I'll just let them do it. And I'll just try
to change it to the way they think it ought to be. I
think the competition is necessary. I think it's good
to have ideas, different ideas. All of us thought just
alike it wouldn't be good.
M: Where did you live when you were here in the th4istle-
Where was your home?
UF 36A Side Two
bd Page 39
B: 335 S. Roper Avenue at that time, which is now 7th Street.
M: Um hum. Did you live there all during the -~caRis?
B: Yes, we lived there till all the children got married
and moved off. (Chuckle).
M: And you Atg' got out of, when you sold your grocery business,
you stayed out of business and just did the commission...
B: But the boys was in business.
M: Uh huh.
B: I had, my son was in the, he was a pontiac dealer here for
several years. Did quite well with it, and f...
M: Which, now which son is this?
B: That is the one that is deceased, Hal Batey, Jr.
M: And he was the pontiac dealer?
B: Yeah, he was the pontiac dealer. And then he put the
boys up in the, t4V farm equipment business, and 2g, and
then World War II come on and Bob had to go, he was the
only one that had to go. And -d. I helped around at, -ci,
the business. And then, ..iF, following World War II there
was a lot of, uTh, army surplus stuff that was sold and
some of it was sold in bad shape, and 0 Hal was very active
and -A, did quite well buying a lot of that surplus stuff.
Except at that time he couldn't hardly get a new automobile,
4 a new tractor, it was hard to get. But,.-:, we could
UF 36A Side Two
bd Page 40
buy this stuff from the army and we sold it, and we
got a few cars and a few tractors. And 4h1,, we was
/
doing pretty good.
M: Um hum. And your other, is the rest of your family,
your other son that you mentioned, Bob, I guess, /s
he still...
B: Bob is still here in town. Lives here, works for Ivan?
Black out there. And 4'h1 Bill Batey, my other boy lives
in Archer and he's a farmer, has a nice ranch there, and
cattle and hogs, and...and then Margaret, this is my daughter
right here JoC\A she's in the drug business, and
they've done quite well in the drug business.
M: What year did Wise, Wise pharmacy was already here as early
as the twenties and th-rtiees, is that right?
B: I don't know when Joe started in business for himself. He
and Margaret's been married about, t1, I think,* '-Gi over
forty years. I believe they have. Uhti, and he was working
first, when they married, he was working for, he was working
for or Jim McCullum, one or the other.
M: Um hum.
B: But he and,..!uJR and. uh1 Ogl4by got in business, and then later
on he bought f,-5Tl out.
M: Og, this is .y?
AL 36A Side Two
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B: Ray, Ray -gl'b.y, yeah. He bought Ray out, and they started
the Wise drug company right there where it is now, by
the Florida Theatre at that time.
M: Is that the original Wise? The one that's under the
Florida Theatre?
B: Um hum, that's right. Then he, they had four nice boys,
still have them, and A, three of them are pharmacists.
And ARy they d, they got several drug stores in town here.
M: Okay, well let me ask you one other quick question, and
that is, because we've talked about the airport, that went
out on Waldo Roadj /rior to that they used the field
the, where Butler Plaza is, Stingle Field.
B: Yeah, Stingle Field.
M: But prior to that, do you remember a little airport named
Java airport which was somewhere in this vicinity?
B: Yeah, yeah, I remember itwas right there close to where
the ball park is now. Close to 8th Avenue and Waldo Road.
But set back a little bit north and west of it. Java field
was big clear field in there and a pasture.
M: Why'd they close that?
B: Well it wasn't big enough.. It wasn't, i it wasn't big
enough, and Am', they buil a little air, air, 4j they built
a little place there, they don't call it a garage, what they
AL 36A Side Two
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call a hanger. They built a hanger out there, but
they, they didn't stay there long. Of course it wasn't,
it wasn't And they used that Chamber's
farm out there which is Stingle field. And it had plenty
room on it we thought. But it got too little mighty quick
too. And soon as we got this modern facility out here/
why, of course they do it on That one over,
that Stingle field was the old Chamber's farm.
M: Now is there something that you would like to add, perhaps
that I didn't ask you about in reference to your own business,
or government in the J~4.Lees, something that I forgot to
ask perhaps?
B: No, I don't know of anything.
M: Okay, is it okay if I use this material in what I'm writing?
B: Yes. (Chuckle).
M: Okay.
END OF INTERVIEW
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