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Interviewer: Catherine Puckett .,.. Subjects: Julius and Lina Lee /1 ,/C-6' Date: SR2A page 1/jb j. S LU/";i^ J: ... it's from my life. P: Right. ?: ? P: How long are we going to be here? J: No, I don't know how long I'm going to be here, now. You've got me covered now. P: O e tr J: Hey. P: First of all, I need to get your name. I'm going to sit here so that they can hear me talking also. L: Oh, let me get you P: L: Go over yonder, Mr. Bill. B: I'll sit right here L: Go right on over there. J: Julius Lee. L: Go right... P: My name's Cathy Puckett... B: Yeah. P: ... and I'm interviewing -what is your name? J: Julius Lee. P: Julius Lee. J: Yes, ma'am. P: And? L: Lina Lee. P: Lina. L: Lina H.; Lee. P: Lina H. Lee of Branford, Florida.



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SR2A page 2 L: Yes, ma'am. P: And we're in the house... L: Yes, ma'am. P: ... July 29. K: June 30. P: Oops! June 30, 1982. J: That's right, right. P: And when you talk if you could hold it up. You don't have to hold it up close to your mouth. Just point it in your direction. J: All right. L: He's a deacon and I'm the mother of the church. P: Your the mother of the church? L: I'm the mother. P: Which church? L: My church down in Branford. J: New Grove Baptist Church. L: New Grove Baptist Church. P: I've been by here a lot because I lived in Fort White and they used to L: I have some folks in Fort White. P: You do? L: My brother. P: That'd be good to get some names. L: My nce. P: Uh huh. L: I J: Do you know any colored of them folk? P: I know a few people, not very many. Not that many. J: Where are you and.... L: Sha--, Shana. J: Shana stay in Fort White.



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SR2A page 3 L: Nick. J: That's your brother, he.... L: And our Beatrice, Bessie Mae Lee. K: Is there another one out there? J: Uh huh. L: J: Yeah, he, she gota plenty kinfolks. But, now don't ask me about mine, now. P: Okay, I won't ask you about yours. J: Oh, you turn that thing off if you want -I've got a thing here that'll blow you out. B: air conditioner. P: So when were you born? J: Oh, now you see that's what I say -now you's going digging me up. I was born in 1905, May 29. P: So you just had a birthday a month ago. J: Uh huh. P: That's right. J: Now, how old is that now? P: Don't ask me I can't add! J: (laughter) L: I was born April 4, 190--... J: Five, five. P: 1905. J: Yeah, we done got to be children again. We once were grown, now we're back in our childhood. P: How long have ya'll been married L: Oh... J: Now, see, they digging in again. L: We been married twice.... J: There -look up there. You don't have to take our word.



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SR2A/page 4 P: Suwannee county, 1934. J: Okay. L: (Laughter) P: Almost fifty years. J: Yeah, that wasn't yesterday was it? P: No, almost fifty years. J: All right, allright then. L: I think he's tired of me, too. K: How can you tell? L: How can you tell? You can tell good, child. K: Well, what's he do to you? L: Well I don't do nothing wrong, K: L: K: Oh. B: Oh, grandma, he keeps P: (laughter) J: (laughter) P: L: P: J: All right, you ready for me to go at talking? What else you want to know, now? P: Okay, you were born in Branford? J: Oh, no. God, I.... P:__ J: Oh, no, Lord, I wasn't born in no Branford. P: Where were you born? J: Louisiana. P: Louisiana? J: That's right. P: How'd you come to Florida?



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SR2A/page 5 J; A cruiser cruised me down here. They was going to come down here and get rich and I wish I'd have stayed there. I used to be a __ P: In Louisiana? J: No, I wasn't ; I was saw-milling up there. My daddy and my mother we cruised a cruiser down here. My daddy was a turpentine man. He coming down here and he was going to pick money off the trees, (laughter) P: What'd you find? B: How old were you when you come J: I was twelve years old. P: Twelve when you came to Branford? J: Yes. P: So did you find money on the trees? J: I ain't found it yet! (laughter) L: (laughter) J: I ain't found that money yet, that's right. K: Did you work when you were twelve? Did you come down here and work for you daddy? J: Yes, ma'am. P: How many people were in your family? J: My daddy and mother and me, just three of us. P: Just three of you? J: Uh huh. P: So what did you do when you came here, since you couldn't find the money on the trees? J: Well, I'd go to school a while and work a while. See, things weren't like it is now. you would have a, when school out, you would work till dawn, just about it. P: Uh huh. J: Then go in there and you'd get your lessons, go to school and come back, go to work. But the children now, your children might go to work every morning Ain't going to do it, but see, I taught the hard way. I know what it's all about. P: What did you work as? Did your parents raise crops or.... J: No, lordy. I cross-ties, give gum, half on this side, all up that...



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SR2A/page 6 J: (laughter) I'm talking about something you won't nothing,,,. I doubt you ever seen any turpentine boxes, eh? P: No, no. J: Uh huh, well.... P: Can you tell me what they were like? J: Pine trees. Bill did you ever see these? B: Oh, yeah. J: I know Mr. Bill must have see it, but, yeah, I chip boxes, pulled boxes, give gum, rake pine.... P: I know how to take the bark off and look for snakes, but that's about all. J; Look for snakes? (laughter) Well, lord, when I come up, I worked out there on that same railroad. P: So you worked on this railroad when it was being put in? J: No'm, I was fishing out there. But I worked out there in '23, '22 and '23. You know how much that'd get an hour? Ten:ihours, ten hours, now? A dollar and forty-seven cents a day! P: And how old were you? J: I was about sixteen or seventeen, then. If you could work, it was worth it then. It wasn't all if you could do the work. Now, I done some of all kind of hard work. P: What was your life like then? J: Last hard work I done I was hard-roading. I was working on a hard road. I rock mined. I phosphated and I can't name it. P: Did you phosphate up at the Itchetuknee river? J: Little bit, yes. P: They were taking phosphate out of the head springs? J: That's right. P: Well, how do you do that with the hard rock? J: (laughter) You take that out -phosphate -you, when you get it out, you'll wash it and get the hard rock out it for months. P: Uh huh.



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SR2A/page 7 J: But I was bringing a sifter and I'd put it up here, and all that for one way and another. P: I see. That's pretty, J: Yeah. You done been out there? P: Uh huh. J: You've been to the old mine out there. P: Well, I've been to Itchetucknee, and I haven't found the old mine, but I was told they use to mine phosphate out of it. J: Well, you come you come down, Thompkin's old mine's also in there. P: Uh huh. Thompkin's? J: Yeah. There's T,A. Thompkin right beside the highway. They pulled that down there between -I suppose between here and Yeah, it was between here and Yeah, t worked all them mines down there. You know, at the Bill's, used to have a mine out there on his place. We went out there and looked it up, all that pretty water and them big You're behind excitement, ain't you? (laughter) There's a many, I know, good fish out at that place. Used to have us some deep water, now. that's some deep water. I worked in it. I think old man -Bill? B: Excuse, me. Go ahead. J: I think -in Newberry -no, he wasn't from Newberry -you know, can't seem to recall his name was working that place out there. view it all. K: I'd like to find out where the good fish are. I have a little boy..., K: There's some big ones in there but you don't get them every time you go there now, I'm telling you that. K: How do you get them? P: How do you do when you fish? J: I, now, ever where I seems to fish, go' down and sit right down there on that log and it, it's two to one if she don't bring out away from two-to-three pounds trout. That's right. L: That's right, that's right. J: I was telling Mr. Bill, why--I ain't talking about my wife; if she Catch one, it'd



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SR2A/page 8 J: pull her overboard in there now. (laughter) L: ______________________ J: L: ________ J: And there's Anne. L: .. J: And then there's Anne. P: What were you going to ask him? B: What was life like when you come to Branford J: Oh, man! Let me tell you now, Mr. Bill, let me.... B: Tell us about the town and how the white people treated you and having to work L: J: Mr. Bill, when I first come here to Branford, there wasn't no highway through here then, little trails. No electric light, now. You see, they had posts, little old bowl sitting up there, man go light it and put it up. The wind wouldn't blow it out, and you could be talking somebody -like from here to the door -and you couldn't have seem him. He'd walk up behind you and knock you in the head if he'd want to, and you wouldn't know who was down there. These wasn't nothing but oak trees and a man stand behind the oak tree and see you coming, and, Who done it? I don't _every Saturday night from one to two, didn't know who done it. And I felt, and said, me? Well, see I was partly raised up here with the i white boys and I could kind of be out till eight or nine o'clock before they noticed. If they didn't get a whip they'd put him in the river. P: So that happened every week? J: Every week. They didn't care. And it was bad to be caught up there after sundown, just like a rabbit. After sundown you better hit that road and get in them Q(jqrfC.5 cause they'll get you. B: One day, one black man was -I might, I might have the name on it -I think it was



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SR2A/page 9 B: J: ? OhWillie Sakin? Yeah, it was, it was over there in'Fayette County. Yeah, he went over there I think he went over there to get something or something or other and drunk and got made, just went to shooting. Killed two. P: Did white people ever get put in prison for doing that? J: No, God. People done just like they wanted to do. If they done anything to me when I was working for Mr. Bill, and Bill said, That's my man -don't bother him. All right. P: But nothing was ever done J: No, wasn't nothing ever done about it. I know there one time -you don't know nothing about this Baker's Law -but that was Baker's Law along in then, a colored fellow'd come through here, just walking around here, and he got at him and killed him, carried him across the river and buried him, and 'bout six months some people come here with all them badges and pistols -George _and Jay and Tom Cruz wasn't in that. Jay and Tom Cruz and now they done dig that colored fellow up. Now that was a time. And when they dug him up, in about two or three weeks he come _die. They didn't, didn't get to have not court over that. He died. It made her so mad cause they done dig up that colored fellow and dress him and sent him back home. He got and died over it, I believe. That's right. I'm going to tell you what I know cause I've been here. I've been here since 1919 and that is nearly about sixty-two or three years, ain't, it Mr. Bill? B: Wasn't there a deputy sheriff or a sheriff or something ___, black man threw him off the street? J: That was, I wasn't, you're talking about Jack __, now. I meant Tom Cruz and them. But that was up there around or something. Boy's name Whitman? B: Yes. J: That was when, I think that was when Lloyd _and them was in that. B: Didn't they put a sign on him...



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SR2A/page 10 J:: Yeah, ;but.,.. B: This niggar came from Cedar Key. J: Cedar Key. (laughter) Well, he,,.. P: What was this, what happened now? Can you say it in the tape recorder? ____ J: About the niggar was headed for Cedar Key, it had a bowl on his chest, P: This was just a young boy? J: old man. P: Oh, he was some older person. J: They didn't care nothing about the old either or the young along in there. You know, Florida, that's my I've been here a long.... But right now, there's some places in Florida a colored person can't go yet, Now I was right over where (laughter), right over here across in Lafayette county, I was about twelve miles in here, saw a law, and I, I wanted some water so bad, I didn't never I went to the gate and I, I, Hello, and here come take a drink and had a bull dog about that high and said, Sss, get him, niggar! P: Gee! J: Boy, me and that bull dog! I tell you, just as I jumped up on the truck, where Ithe boss man was, he was right up there. So the boss man hit at him and got him, and you know what that man told me, he told my boss man, said, my wife is scared of niggars and I ain't too tame of him and don't you ever let him come up here no more, there's no water, Now that was right cross the road there, see, P: When was this? J: Oh, this was along in, I reckon about 14Q or '45, P: J: It is civilized yet, not with colored folks, I mean, Claughter) Said, niggars, get him, he knowed that,,,,, Claughteri You talking about raising a' I raised it; I throwed down that jug and, lord, lord, P: Well how did you all, how did black people manage? How did you keep the peace when they would beat you up? J: Oh, see I did, if I had to go to work ....... Mr, Bill, hed knock me off before sundown, but I'd be home around sundown, there in my yard, or in the house, You wouldn't



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SR2A/page 11 J: catch me poking around up at the street, P: The black people just did not go outside, J: No. Better not go outside. K: Were the ladies in danger, too? Did they hurt the women? J: Yeah. All of them was in danger. P: They hurt women, too? J: Well, they just got civilized a little bit here, I reckon along in '40, they went to get them together, '35 and '40. It was rough. My colored friend, he'd go in the stores. Of course, I know how to act. I'll go any place in there and get what I want, I don't go in there with my head all tore up. That makes a heap of bad matters with you, going in these places with your head all tore up and then they says something to you, jump up and give us some smart mark, and here they get mad with you and haul off and knock you out and there's nothing you can do. But he'll say, he hit me, well, you bring it on yourself, see. But that's what we had to go through, boy. P: What about the Klu Klux Klan? J: No. P: Were they ever around here? J: They was here, but I would always be home. I knowed they burned crosses all up and down in here. P: Would they burn them on black people's lawn or white people's lawn? J: Well, anywhere while you were doing wrong, or they thought you were doing wrong, why, they'd burn them. P: Did the Klu Klux Klan do any beating up of people or things like that? J: Well, they'd go to the and give them such a .... time, When you see that cross burned, you get up here and see that where that cross, you know to leave then, P: Did people leave? J: Sure, they'd better leave. P: What kind cases do you know that they would burn crosses in someone's yard? J: Well, just like, I had a wife and I was treating her bad and wouldn't stay home with her and wouldn't, I mean, give her nothing to eat and all kind of stuff like that and she'd talk about that, they'd get after you about that, Oh, it Wouldn't be no more than thatrYtihy \/L.



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SR2A/page 12 J: If I had Lina, and I didn't give her nothing to eat and do all kind of way, I couldn't say nothing about that. P: I read one thing that was written by the the Klu Klux Klan. It was letter that they wrote to a white doctor in White Springs and they were telling him to get out of town because he had given medicine to some black men. J: Oh. P: Did that kind of thing ever happen around here? J: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. No, ma'am. P: Where did you all go for medical care? J: We had a, okay, Dr. Philpot, Lina, wasn't he in there? Yeah, Dr. Philpot, L: J: No. May... B: J: ... Bayer. L: Bayen, he used to do it. J: And we had a doctor here,.. K: Dr. J: ... Dr. Farnia. Then they had a doctor here they called Dr. Peter Ball, P: What did you do in the early 1900s? Were there any doctors? J: Yeah. I had a doctor along here, all along in them days. K: J: And he was a good doctor, too. You know, he'd come to your house and sit there all night and whenever you'd wake up he'd the first (laughter) But he was a good doctor, now I P: Can you turn that towards your mouth? J: This way? L: J: I hear you, mama. (laughter) B:____________ J: I hear mama, talking about it. What is it, what you got to say ___. Talk ----:===rz==^^_--------------------------------Talk



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SR2A/page 13 P: Could you shop in the same stores, back in the early 1900s? J: After we got through the back, P: You go to the back. J: You go to the back door. They might go in that front door, P: You mean go to the store. J: Yeah, you could go to the store, but go to the back, L: That was J: And you better not,.. L: J: Oh, you come here in 1933, though. 1930, You was all right, '31, when you come here. But I'know when us would go to Mayo, we ...... __''''''' ''''' L: Mayo, again. J: Shuck. I don't care what we wanted out of the store to eat, we went to that back door and that man would come there and ask us what us wanted and we'd tell him and he'd go get it and bring it back to that back door. _And he'd better not stick his head in that front door. (laughter) B: When you was young and working in the turpentine, getting gum, did ya' l l have commissary stores that the company owned? J: That's right, at the Lang, that's where we got our groceries and overalls and them brogan shoes, everything, from the commissary. L: Bought our food. J: And I was, was sixty-seven thousand, and you could pay it off once a month. P: Uh huh. L: That's right. P: So what did you do when you were turpentining? Did you just go move in a camp or.... J: No, I didn't ever live in no camp. I'd be here and then, see them turpentine folk would have camps like you say, a big quarter, well there's a quarter was over there, over that fence over there. P: Quarter? B: That's where colored people worked.



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SR2A/page 14 J: Yeah. P: Okay. Where were a lot of people ....... L: In quarters. J: You talkingabout a time, we'd have a time, when we, we blew money. We be done had a pay day and blowing part of it and sticking ____ in one another, hot water. P: Every Monday? L: Every Monday. J: Boy, we really have a ball. Turpentine camp. L: Every Monday, sure as a fact. J: That's right. B: Julius, what was to you? J: Oh, that was when our foreparents was freed from slavery. B: What do ya'l do to celebrate it? J: We have them big eats like you. L: B: I know, but I J: Oh. B: J: Yeah, we.... P: What do you do to celebrate May 20? J: We have a big picnic. We have a big picnic, plenty to eat, like cake, chicken, K: I wish I'd been there. J: We had a here this time. Lord, we had it. P: Can I go to your next year? J: If you be living there now. We had it right out there. P: You have some, so you do this every July, every May 20. J: Yes, ma'am. We has it, we has. P: Were any of these people around here, were any of their grandparents slaves? J: No, they don't, they no... L:____ J: ... ain't nobody a slave around here, men. They all dead, what used to be slaves here,



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SR2A/page 15 L: I thought your sister was a J: What all used to be a slave is gone, dead and gone, now. P: Did you ever hear any stories here about slavery? Have you ever heard stories that others said? J: No, no theysure didn't. P: L: Look over there on the bed and my pictures of B: Where the chicken L: J: Ma'am? P: Who started this? J: What, the celebration? P: Uh huh. J: Oh, we used to have that, we used to have it, let me see, in, got started sharing in '21, '22 but the old died out and let it go down, so I picked it up about three or four years ago, started it back up.... K: At the time you would L: J: Yeah, that's right. Damn. K: Sing? Singing? J: No, it wasn't but singing the blues or something. I didn't know nothing about no long in there. K: You know, do you sing blues? J: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. No ma'am. P: You know any people around here who do play instruments or do singing? J: Yes'm. Yes'm. I, ain't nobody around here do much else cause we all church folks and the choir sings. L: Yeah, in the choir. P: Uh huh. L: And my children sing in the choir



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SR2A/page 16 P: Uh huh. L: The other died in '33, P: Oh. L: Sang along with the choir. P: Oh. L: And I joined the church down here in '33 ____ '''' '' Of course I remember before I moved to P: Uh huh. L: I've got a memory since I was a little girl. going to church and Sunday school I had to do, J: Lina, this, on this tape recorderhere, let's sing a tune for her, let's sing it, P: I'll hold it between you, so I can get both of you. What's the name of the song? L: J: "Oh, Jesus." L: Oh, Jesus, isn't What's your J: Oh, but you ain't singing, (together,they sing): Oh, my Jesus, he'll never say no. Oh, my Jesus, he'll never say no. You can call him in the the morning. You can call him any time. Oh, my Jesus, will never say no. Oh, I tried him, he never said no. Yes, I tried him, he never said no. You can call him in the morning. You can call him any time. Oh, my Jesus will never say no, L: He's our singer. J: That's right. That's all we gonna give you. We ain't going to give you any more of our songs. P: That's beautiful. L: P: That is gorgeous. J: (laughter) Well, ain't going to give you no more of that, now. L: J: Now, you talking about singing it, you oughta just come down there, some,.... J: Sure, you're welcome. L: Why you come to the church, don't think you gonna J ... ,. . . ....



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SR2A/page 17 J: And whenever you come there, I'll tell Margo, Margaret... L: I may be on the choir. J: ... and we got a pianist and then I'll tell her that you is there, we want to sing that song for you, P: I'd love to. K: Who wrote it? J: I don't know who wrote it. L: who wrote it. J: But we, we don't. P: I like that. L: P: What time does your church start? J: We have a.... L: It starts.... P: Eleven? J: Yeah. L: And they start Sunday school, too. J: But now, we won't have no just come this Sunday, now, P: You have the Fourth of July? L: We have Independence Day. J: Second Sunday in P: So, a week from this Sunday is when you have J: Yes, ma'am. L: Yes, ma'am. P: How about if I come then? L: Okay! J: Okay! P: I'll take my boyfriend. J: Okay, come on. L: Come on. hd love too, love sic y P: I'd love too, l loveAmusic. fly my $1'qS heros



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SR2A/page 18 J: Sure enough? L:__ used to come to Sunday school and just like that, she did. J: I sure did, too. L: J: Uh huh. L: And them and they'd come there and go out there to Sunday school. P: Oh, that's nice. L: be going to church and we'd be going to their church, too, P: Uh huh. L: But, they'd come down here and have Sunday school with us every Sunday morning, J: There was a bunch of them, too. P: I'd really like to go. L: J: And then I'll tell you... L: J: ... you stay here in Branford? P: I lived in Fort White, but now, my daddy died about a year-and-a-half ago and I moved back to Gainesville because my mother was there. J: What name was your father? P: Who was he? J: Who was your father's name? P: His name was Max Puckett. He taught school in Gainesville for a while. J: Well, you don't know Mr. Bobby Fletcher down here, do you? Run the hardware down there, L: P: No. I know and Ruby and Uncle Earl and I know, let's see, the man who, up at the hotel there, and I know the man who used to write stories for the newspaper here. J: Well, we got two of them here, now. P: So, I don't know very many people in Branford. J: Well, anytime, you welcome. I know you, when you come in there. P: Well, I'll come in two weeks, in two weeks at the __ right down here. J: Well, you see the white check right side the road.



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SR2A/page 19 L: See that white check. P: Okay. I know where it is. L: P: I've been by it many a time. J: Eh. P: And I L: We are covering it on the second Sunday. J: Uh huh. L: And we allow preaching on the fourth Sunday and been too much. P: Uh huh. L: We had second. J: Yeah, we had a singing there last Sunday. P: Oh. Uh huh. L: J: We had a time. P: So I'll come to both of those for the preaching and the choir. J: (laughter) L: Yeah, I sings in the choir. I ushered, first. P: I used to sing in a choir, too. L: I joined the church and ushered, joined the usher board the-next year. I joined the usher board in '34. And I been ushering... P: Ever since? L: ... ever since. And I've been on the choir, I joined the choir in '34. I joined the choir. I think it was in July or August, one. We moved up there to the, a house on the other side of the church, Mr. Taylor lived in that house. inviting, and I joined, and I been singing in the choir ever since. P: Well, I was pastor in Gainesville. L: _Community Choir, go all to different churches and sing and then we got a choir in church. J: I imagine you done get it, h talk P: Reverend Hampton.



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SR2A/page 20 J: Reverend Hampton. P: Uh huh. J: C.H. Hampton. K: So he comes up here? L:_________ J: Yeah, he comes up here. That's our pastor. L: That's our pastor, too. K: Okay. L: C.H. Hampton. J: Yes. P: Did you all meet at church, did you say? You two, did you meet at church? J: church? P: Is that how you met each other? J: No, no, no. Now that air't how wvi met, it wasn't. No, ma'am. L: J: I was, I was drinking liquor along in then, wasn't I? L: I met him at the ball game. J: (laughter) L: Met him at the ball game. I did. P: How old were you? L: He was old. J: Oh, no.... L: my husband was dead. P: Oh. L: My first husband was in '30 and he was plenty I told him, I'll J: (laughter) L: And he was after all that Mr. Lee, I said, Throw it in the the swamp. That ball. I said, Throw it in the swamp. He got that ball and then he finally Said, oh! everybody is Well, the next Sunday I went and just as I walked in _that team



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SR2A/page 21 L: J: It ain't my fault. L: Well, that's a big Oh! I knbw it. P: Oh, no. L: We rushed on to the house and got the doctor, called the doctor. Doctor come right on and he said if it was just a little bit lower, it would have killed him dead. P: I know a little boy who died like that. L: Yeah. J: Oh, yeah. L: Said it would've killed him dead. You know, I ain't been to a ball game since. That broke me up. J: Yeah, that broke us up. I've played it. L: I cooked, I cooked, I cooked down there at that cafe on the corner.'-. P: Uh huh. L: The first Negro woman cooked in that cafe to eat. I cooked for nine years. I mean straight. I didn't miss a day. Listen, I didn't have to but I quit that and I sown bacca. P: You did what? L: I sown bacca. P: What is that? L: Bacca, bacca. J: Lord, she's a school girl; she'd don't know nothing about no tobacco. P: Oh, tobacco, tobacco. L: Oh, she ain't seen no bacca? J: P: 'Okay, I've watched it.



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SR2A/page 22 L: I see. I'd go in the fields and help them cut that first five hundred sticks a day. P: Oh. L: And leaves, not enough. Come home and cooks my supper and my two white boys And after I left that, I cooked at old school eight years P: Hard working woman. J: Oh, yeah. L: I was going to work ten years and then I was going to retire. Ten:years and then you could retire. But and in sixty... J: Eight. L: ... eight, I had my stroke. P: Oh. L: Yeah, I had another stroke that time. ______ I cooks a little and I washes, but I don't cook. He cooks. I wash when I'm able. I put them in the machine and he pulls them out and I put them in the dryer. We don't have a lot. But I don't cook. P: Do you miss cooking? L: Huh? P: Do you miss cooking? L: Yeah, and I love to, oh! I love to cook. I been cooking ever since I could stand on the box to the stove. I had to stand on the box with the My mama was sick. _She died when I was little. I had, I had to cook for her. She had P: Uh huh. L: And she couldn't cook. I'd get in that kitchen, I'd cook that dinner, wash them breakfast dishes and picked up I cooked them peas and shelled them peas and I'd cook them till 12:00 and then and them come, I'd go in there and fix the dinner at table ready to go sofa, old wooden table. We didn't have a table like they have now. P: Uh huh.



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SR2A/page 23 L: We had made tables, made benches and I that thing and I'd wash the dishes and I didn't let it bother _I'd better not bother him cause he working. P: Uh huh. L: And work. J: That's right. L: And afternoon I thought I, roll out my, here's my peas, work for in the morning, and show her that I could do and help out. And I helped him with __ I cooked his supper He studied; I studied _And then they got up and they left. I'd go off to school and I went to school half a day. You had to do it. You had to go to school and I had to wait cause my momma was and my daddy doing all he'd do and my brother, he runned away all the time. He run away all the time. P: Where did he run to? L: Oh, he'd go .Daddy'd go get him, come back, and he'd sit home about a week or two and then he'd run away again. So I'd go to school a half a day and I'd work a half a day. P: How old were you? L: I was a little old thing. J: She wants to know how old you was. L: _________ J: She wants to know how old you was. L: I don't know how old I was. P: But you were just a little kid. L: I don't know how old I was then, but I was small then. P: Uh huh. L: I wasn't big enough to stand up to to cook and those stoves box. There were three: one to the stove, one to this table and one over there at that place. and then my daddy, I just start and he'd be coming, they'd put them harnesses up on him and that horse would come just as straight to that house and feed him.



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SR2A/page 24 P: Uh huh. L: And then I'd _But I'd say.... J: You come up the hard way. L: Yeah. It was rough when I come up. When I, my daddy got me to back to the field. I had to go out there and catch that horse and brush him down good, put them on him and then go right along over there and he'd stand there and but I would go on over yonder doing the hoeing. P: Uh huh. L: Hoeing or picking cotton. And then I had to quit in time for us to come back home and cook. P: Where did your daddy work? L: Farm. P: So your daddy had some land. L: Uh huh. P: And where was this that you lived? L: I living here. I wasn't married then. P: Yeah. You lived in Branford? L: No, lord. P: Where did you grow up? L: I, I was.... J: She said where did you grow up, Lina. L: I grow up of Cypress Lake, he called it Cypress Lake. And the church was Philadelphia Baptist church P: Uh huh. L: And I was born, let me see, I was born out there to that Lake. P: Uh huh. L: Not far from that lake. That's what my sister said, see, that what's my older sister said. But she's dead now. I was born out there. P: That's pretty far from here? J: Yeah. L: Yeah, it's quite a ways.



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SR2A/page 25 P: Okay. L: Live Oak or P: Right. I've been to Live Oak. L: And momma.... J: Yeah, but she's pointed you the wrong way. L: J: Yeah, but you wasn't born out there. L: No, I was born out there to just about Cypress Lake out there, J: Yeah, You go to you see all those highways over there, looks like a big settlement, project. P: Uh huh. J: Turn on that road and go out down there and that's where she lived at. P: Okay. I know where that is. I've been down that road. P: That new big project. J: That's right, that's right. L: Well, I lived just back on the other side. J: Uh huh. P: So your daddy had some land back there. L: My daddy had land back there. He had four acres of land and he'd tend half of it this year and tend half of it the next year. P: Uh huh. So did he, was he born there, too? L: My daddy? I don't know where my daddy. I never did hear my papa say where he was born. And when momma died I didn't get to see her; I just see to plat her hair and I've got bad eyes there in '33, in'32. in '32. P: Burned out? L: Uh huh. Everything I've got. J: Now, now. That's more than house in '40. L: In '40, yeah. J: And it must have been '50. L: Yeah, it was in the fifties. J-: W'en the house got burned.



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SR2A/page 26 L: J: Both sides of the house right there on that corner, big old red house. L: Right on the corner. It got it J: So we just had to build again. P: Oh. L: Yeah, and I was up there and and I had two grandchildren about that high -two little boys -but I'd send them down next until I come in and when they see me come in, then they'd come home. P: Uh huh. L: Now, he was working upstate over to that rock mine. J: Rock mine. P: Okay, I know where that is. L: And when they come in before I did, they'd come in, knock the over out there. P: Oh. L: And knocked his eyeball out. J: Knocked his eyes out. And P: Did he still live? L: No. J: No, lord. P: I didn't think so. Oh. L: all from my momma and the church. I had got it all. P: J: Well, I get all the money L: All that money was spread up. J: A pile of.... L: I had a pile of his money. I tried to get him to take it. He said no, I wanted to pay him back. He said, No, no. You wasn't the cause of it burning up. We, we doing wrong, said, to pay that money back. P: I agree. I agree. L:



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SR2A/page 27 P: L: And I had on a ragged, the raggedest thing I could find. P: Because you were picking. L: Well, I had like to pick In the morning I was going to work and I had a man up there, a young, my boys flew over hard and Julius's arm looked like a J: L: So I had a P: Oh. L: When I come in here and my house was burnt down, I had a stove my husband give me for my Christmas present. I ain't never seed none like and ain't never been able to get nary another like it. And I cried go crazy over me. Everyone called me, go back home and come back, give me a nickel, give me a dime, give me, give me some money, I've got to use it later, some money, I was a I tell you, and then those children they just cried right along with me. P: Oh. L: Mr. Mr. here, he come along, he cried. J: You know ? Fine man, wasn't he? L: He said, Don't cry, don't cry. You'll get more than you ever had, but you got something that J: Yeah, yeah. L: He said, Don't cry. Said, we gonna take care of you and we had, come back with a box of groceries, big and long enough, J: Don't forget L: And Mr. ... J: L: ... and Elvis... J: Elvis Smith. L: ... Elvis Smith, he had a ______ box, and had it full, and here he come. and here come some more.



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Si2A/page 28 L: Boy, I just had it, I just had it. I just _But now that,,. J: That full__ L: ... wasn't J: That's right. L: Begin a day, you's got one mattress, we getting a mattresses, we getting a bed, we getting bedstead, we getting a chair, we getting a sofa, we getting a frigidaire. This is the first Well, go back and look again. J: Had so many things we didn't know where to put it. That's right. L: Set what they couldn't get inside on the porch. P: Oh. L: Set it on the porch. And Mr. ya'll got a home there as long as you live and we stayed there and stayed there and stayed there. Mr. he'd come out and look and I'd come over there. I was watching I looking at him, he come right at that back door. I said, This to myself. I wouldn't watch him, but I'd watch him here. I said, There's something wrong. He come right straight. He say, Lina, where's Julius? I say, he's over in the house. He said, Come here Julius. He said, You and Lina been living back here all your life, looks like to me. You done stayed here till it looks like it's your home. Said, Come on over yere, say, I say here give it to you, draw it up and everything, and your house and that'll be you and Lina's home, this house is. And he us and I put my Head He was working hard road and I was cooking down to the cafe. I was at the same time and helped the woman who was coming in. She was a white lady. She could cook put she didn't know how to put out the P: Uh huh. L: And he said, Lina you stay and show her how to put out the oyster and I stayed there you just stay around here and show here that she don't know, she'll ask you, and if you see her going round then you tell her. I said, I don't know how to do that. He said, Oh yeah, come on now. They was good to me. And generally he was, they like to taken him away from them. B: Sure did, I thought.



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SR2A/ page 29 L: His wife took him. P: Was this your son? L: Grandson. J: Grandson. P: Grandson. Uh huh. L: Took him and carried him and they drove and to the office there was my daddy trying to cut yard and pumping gas. And he said, he said, When you pump that gas, you keep that money. And said, come on here, boy, then give me that money. He said, No, I ain't. I'm going to keep this money, till Mr. whatyou-call-it come back. J: Puckett. Puckett. L: Mr. Puckett come back and give it to him myself and they was in _and she give her, she'd tie it down, she'd set it out there on the walkway and she'd tell him, She said, now, you see this baby down here I don't want none of you to walk over him and step on him, said walk around him J: L: Sai4 Walk around him, said, That's my little boy. If you going to be a be one, but be a clean one. P: Uh huh. J: That's what she said. L: Don't be a nasty one, be a clean one and God knows them people was clean about that place. The was about it? P: Who was there now? What was their names? J: Walter Mayfield. L: I tell you he's right here. P: Oh, you talking about who he is working for? L: He was working for Mr. But I he was he finished up, he was in college. He's teaching school, now. P: And that's your grandson. L: Yeah. J: Yeah.



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SR2A/page30 J: He's says I ain't call myself into ... L: That's the grandboy. J: ... I ain't call myself into _______ but I got to have a L: That's my grandson. P: A what? J: A co-cola. P: Okay, I'll have a little bit. Just a small glass. L: No, he don't have no small ones. P: Oh. (Lina is singing in the background) J: You heard about that accident down there yesterday or two, didn't you? About that fellow getting killed right out there? P: I heard about a semi, the man who got killed down south who was from Branforc. That accident? J: That man got killed down south? P: Well, yeah. It's someone that Uncle Earl over there goes fishing with and he got killed in an accident but he wasn't in Branford at the time. He was going down to Okeechobee or some where. J: Oh! Oh, man, she's trying to tell us P: I don't know his name. When Karen comes back, she might know his name. J: See, he wasn't the one to get killed hike that -a train killed him, see. P: No. L: It was right here near about in front of my house. P: Really? Oh, that's bad. L: Oh. J: Do you ever come down....


Julius and Lina Lee
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00008242/00001
 Material Information
Title: Julius and Lina Lee
Physical Description: Book
Publication Date: 1982
Copyright Date: 1982
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Source Institution: University of Florida
Holding Location: University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
System ID: UF00008242:00001

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Full Text
Interviewer: Catherine Puckett ._.,,.
Subjects: Julius and Lina Lee t/1O/2. 6'
Date:
SR2A
page 1/Vjb 1 j / o i
J: ...it's from my life.
P: Right.
?:
P: How long are we going to be here?
J: No, I don't know how long I'm going to be here, now. You've got me covered now.
J: Hey.
P: First of all, I need to get your name. I'm going to sit here so that they can hear
me talking also.
L: Oh, let me get you
L: Go over yonder, Mr. Bill.
B: I'll sit right here
L: Go right on over there.
J: Julius Lee.
L: Go right...
P: My name's Cathy Puckett...
B: Yeah.
P: ...and I'm interviewing -- what is your name?
J: Julius Lee.
P: Julius Lee.
J: Yes, ma'am.
P: And?
L: Lina Lee.
P: Lina.
L: Lina H.,; Lee.
P: Lina H. Lee of Branford, Florida.





SR2A
page 2
L: Yes, ma'am.
P: And we're in the house...
L: Yes, ma'am.
P: ...July 29.
K: June 30.
P: Oops! June 30, 1982.
J: That's right, right.
P: And when you talk if you could hold it up. You don't have to hold it up close to
your mouth. Just point it in your direction.
J: All right.
L: He's a deacon and I'm the mother of the church.
P: Your the mother of the church?
L: I'm the mother.
P: Which church?
L: My church down in Branford.
J: New Grove Baptist Church.
L: New Grove Baptist Church.
P: I've been by here a lot because I lived in Fort White and they used to
L: I have some folks in Fort White.
P: You do?
L: My brother.
P: That'd be good to get some names.
L: My nce.
P: Uh huh.
L: I
J: Do you know any colored of them folk?
P: I know a few people, not very many. Not that many.
J: Where are you and....
L: Sha--, Shana.
J: Shana stay in Fort White.





SR2A
page 3
L: Nick.
J: That's your brother, he....
L: And our Beatrice, Bessie Mae Lee.
K: Is there another one out there?
J: Uh huh.
L:
J: Yeah, he, she gota plenty kinfolks. But, now don't ask me about mine, now.
P: Okay, I won't ask you about yours.
J: Oh, you turn that thing off if you want -- I've got a thing here that'll blow you
out.
B: air conditioner.
P: So when were you born?
J: Oh, now you see that's what I say -- now you's going digging me up. I was born in
1905, May 29.
P: So you just had a birthday a month ago.
J: Uh huh.
P: That's right.
J: Now, how old is that now?
P: Don't ask me I can't add!
J: (laughter)
L: I was born April 4, 190--...
J: Five, five.
P: 1905.
J: Yeah, we done got to be children again. We once were grown, now we're back in our
childhood.
P: How long have ya'll been married
L: Oh...
J: Now, see, they digging in again.
L: We been married twice....
J: There -- look up there. You don't have to take our word.





SR2A/page 4
P: Suwannee county, 1934.
J: Okay.
L: (Laughter)
P: Almost fifty years.
J: Yeah, that wasn't yesterday was it?
P: No, almost fifty years.
J: All right, allright then.
L: I think he's tired of me, too.
K: How can you tell?
L: How can you tell? You can tell good, child.
K: Well, what's he do to you? ,
L: Well I don't do nothing wrong,
K:
L:
K: Oh.
B: Oh, grandma, he keeps
P: (laughter)
J: (laughter)
P:
L:
P:
J: All right, you ready for me to go at talking? What else you want to know, now?
P: Okay, you were born in Branford?
J: Oh, no. God, I....
P:__
J: Oh, no, Lord, I wasn't born in no Branford.
P: Where were you born?
J: Louisiana.
P: Louisiana?
J: That's right.
P: How'd you come to Florida?





SR2A/page 5
J; A cruiser cruised me down here. They was going to come down here and get rich and I
wish I'd have stayed there. I used to be a __
P: In Louisiana?
J: No, I wasn't ; I was saw-milling up there. My daddy and my mother
we cruised a cruiser down here. My daddy was a turpentine man. He coming down here
and he was going to pick money off the trees, (laughter)
P: What'd you find?
B: How old were you when you come
J: I was twelve years old.
P: Twelve when you came to Branford?
J: Yes.
P: So did you find money on the trees?
J: I ain't found it yet! (laughter)
L: (laughter)
J: I ain't found that money yet, that's right.
K: Did you work when you were twelve? Did you come down here and work for you daddy?
J: Yes, ma'am.
P: How many people were in your family?
J: My daddy and mother and me, just three of us.
P: Just three of you?
J: Uh huh.
P: So what did you do when you came here, since you couldn't find the money on the trees?
J: Well, I'd go to school a while and work a while. See, things weren't like it is now.
, you would have a, when school out, you would work till
dawn, just about it.
P: Uh huh.
J: Then go in there and you'd get your lessons, go to school and come back, go to work.
But the children now, your children might go to work every morning
Ain't going to do it, but see, I taught the hard way. I know what it's all about.
P: What did you work as? Did your parents raise crops or....
J: No, lordy. I cross-ties, give gum, half on this side, all up that...





SR2A/page 6
J: (laughter) I'm talking about something you won't nothing,,,. I doubt you ever seen
any turpentine boxes, eh?
P: No, no.
J: Uh huh, well....
P: Can you tell me what they were like?
J: Pine trees. Bill did you ever see these?
B: Oh, yeah.
J: I know Mr. Bill must have see it, but, yeah, I chip boxes, pulled boxes, give gum,
rake pine....
P: I know how to take the bark off and look for snakes, but that's about all.
J; Look for snakes? (laughter) Well, lord, when I come up, I worked out there on that
same railroad.
P: So you worked on this railroad when it was being put in?
J: No'm, I was fishing out there. But I worked out there in '23, '22 and '23. You know
how much that'd get an hour? Ten:ihours, ten hours, now? A dollar and forty-seven cents
a day!
P: And how old were you?
J: I was about sixteen or seventeen, then. If you could work, it was worth it then. It
wasn't all if you could do the work. Now, I done some of all
kind of hard work.
P: What was your life like then?
J: Last hard work I done I was hard-roading. I was working on a hard road. I rock
mined. I phosphated and I can't name it.
P: Did you phosphate up at the Itchetuknee river?
J: Little bit, yes.
P: They were taking phosphate out of the head springs?
J: That's right.
P: Well, how do you do that with the hard rock?
J: (laughter) You take that out -- phosphate -- you, when you get it out, you'll wash
it and get the hard rock out it for months.
P: Uh huh.





SR2A/page 7
J: But I was bringing a sifter and I'd put it up here, and all that for one way and
another.
P: I see. That's pretty,
J: Yeah. You done been out there?
P: Uh huh.
J: You've been to the old mine out there.
P: Well, I've been to Itchetucknee, and I haven't found the old mine, but I was told they
use to mine phosphate out of it.
J: Well, you come you come down, Thompkin's old mine's also in there.
P: Uh huh. Thompkin's?
J: Yeah. There's T,A. Thompkin right beside the highway. They pulled that down there
between -- I suppose between here and Yeah, it was between here and
. Yeah, t worked all them mines down there. You know, at the Bill's,
used to have a mine out there on his place. We went out there and looked it up, all
that pretty water and them big You're behind excitement, ain't you?
(laughter) There's a many, I know, good fish out at that place. Used to have us some
deep water, now. that's some deep water. I worked in it. I think old man -- Bill?
B: Excuse, me. Go ahead.
J: I think -in Newberry -- no, he wasn't from Newberry -- you know, can't
seem to recall his name was working that place out there.
view it all.
K: I'd like to find out where the good fish are. I have a little boy...,
K: There's some big ones in there but you don't get them every time you go there now, I'm
telling you that.
K: How do you get them?
P: How do you do when you fish?
J: I, now, ever where I seems to fish, go' down and sit right down there on that log and
it, it's two to one if she don't bring out away from two-to-three pounds trout. That's
right.
L: That's right, that's right.
J: I was telling Mr. Bill, why--- I ain't talking about my wife; if she Catch one, it'd





SR2A/page 8
J: pull her overboard in there now. (laughter)
L: ______________________
J:
L: ________
J: And there's Anne.
L: ..
J: And then there's Anne.
P: What were you going to ask him?
B: What was life like when you come to Branford
J: Oh, man! Let me tell you now, Mr. Bill, let me....
B: Tell us about the town and how the white people treated you and having to work
L:
J: Mr. Bill, when I first come here to Branford, there wasn't no highway through here
then, little trails. No electric light, now. You
see, they had posts, little old bowl sitting up there, man go light
it and put it up. The wind wouldn't blow it out, and you could be talking somebody --
like from here to the door -- and you couldn't have seem him. He'd walk up behind you
and knock you in the head if he'd want to, and you wouldn't know who was down there.
These wasn't nothing but oak trees and a man stand behind the oak tree and see you
coming, and, Who done it? I don't _every
Saturday night from one to two, didn't know who done it. And I felt, and said, me?
Well, see I was partly raised up here with the i white boys and I
could kind of be out till eight or nine o'clock before they noticed.
If they didn't get a whip they'd put him in the river.
P: So that happened every week?
J: Every week. They didn't care. And it was bad to be caught up there after sundown,
just like a rabbit. After sundown you better hit that road and get in them Q(jqrfC.5
cause they'll get you.
B: One day, one black man was -- I might, I might have the name on it -- I think it was





SR2A/page 9
B:
J: ? OhWillie Sakin? Yeah, it was, it was over there in'Fayette
County. Yeah, he went over there I think he went over there
to get something or something or other and drunk and got made, just
went to shooting. Killed two.
P: Did white people ever get put in prison for doing that?
J: No, God. People done just like they wanted to do. If they done anything to me when I
was working for Mr. Bill, and Bill said, That's my man -- don't bother him. All right.
P: But nothing was ever done
J: No, wasn't nothing ever done about it. I know there one time -- you don't know nothing
about this Baker's Law -- but that was Baker's Law along in then, a colored fellow'd
come through here, just walking around here, and he got at him and killed him, carried
him across the river and buried him, and 'bout six months some people come here with
all them badges and pistols -- George _and Jay
and Tom Cruz wasn't in that. Jay and Tom Cruz and now they
done dig that colored fellow up. Now that was a time. And when they dug him up, in
about two or three weeks he come _die. They didn't, didn't get
to have not court over that. He died. It made her so mad cause they done dig up
that colored fellow and dress him and sent him back home. He got
and died over it, I believe. That's right. I'm going to tell you what I know cause
I've been here. I've been here since 1919 and that is nearly about sixty-two or three
years, ain't, it Mr. Bill?
B: Wasn't there a deputy sheriff or a sheriff or something ___, black man
threw him off the street?
J: That was, I wasn't, you're talking about Jack __, now. I meant Tom
Cruz and them. But that was up there around
or something. Boy's name Whitman?
B: Yes.
J: That was when, I think that was when Lloyd _and them was in that.
B: Didn't they put a sign on him...





SR2A/page 10
J:: Yeah, ;but.,..
B: This niggar came from Cedar Key.
J: Cedar Key. (laughter) Well, he,,..
P: What was this, what happened now? Can you say it in the tape recorder? ____
J: About the niggar was headed for Cedar Key, it had a bowl on his chest,
P: This was just a young boy?
J: old man.
P: Oh, he was some older person.
J: They didn't care nothing about the old either or the young along in there. You know,
Florida, that's my I've been here a long.... But right now, there's some
places in Florida a colored person can't go yet, Now I was right over where (laughter),
right over here across in Lafayette county, I was about twelve miles in here, saw a law,
and I, I wanted some water so bad, I didn't never I went to the gate and I, I,
Hello, and here come take a drink and had a bull dog about that high and said, Sss, get
him, niggar!
P: Gee!
J: Boy, me and that bull dog! I tell you, just as I jumped up on the truck, where Ithe boss
man was, he was right up there. So the boss man hit at him and got him, and you know what
that man told me, he told my boss man, said, my wife is scared of niggars and I ain't too
tame of him and don't you ever let him come up here no more, there's no water, Now that
was right cross the road there, see,
P: When was this?
J: Oh, this was along in, I reckon about 14Q or '45,
P: _
J: It is civilized yet, not with colored folks, I mean, Claughter) Said,
niggars, get him, he knowed that,,,,, Claughteri You talking about raising a' '
I raised it; I throwed down that jug and, lord, lord,
P: Well how did you all, how did black people manage? How did you keep the peace when they
would beat you up?
J: Oh, see I did, if I had to go to work ....... Mr, Bill, hed knock me off before
sundown, but I'd be home around sundown, there in my yard, or in the house, You wouldn't





SR2A/page 11
J: catch me poking around up at the street,
P: The black people just did not go outside,
J: No. Better not go outside.
K: Were the ladies in danger, too? Did they hurt the women?
J: Yeah. All of them was in danger.
P: They hurt women, too?
J: Well, they just got civilized a little bit here, I reckon along in '40, they went to get them
together, '35 and '40. It was rough. My colored friend, he'd go in the stores. Of course,
I know how to act. I'll go any place in there and get what I want, I don't go in there with
my head all tore up. That makes a heap of bad matters with you, going in these places with
your head all tore up and then they says something to you, jump up and give us some smart
mark, and here they get mad with you and haul off and knock you out and there's nothing you
can do. But he'll say, he hit me, well, you bring it on yourself, see. But that's what
we had to go through, boy.
P: What about the Klu Klux Klan?
J: No.
P: Were they ever around here?
J: They was here, but I would always be home. I knowed they burned crosses all up and down in
here.
P: Would they burn them on black people's lawn or white people's lawn?
J: Well, anywhere while you were doing wrong, or they thought you were doing wrong, why, they'd
burn them.
P: Did the Klu Klux Klan do any beating up of people or things like that?
J: Well, they'd go to the and give them such a .... time, When you see
that cross burned, you get up here and see that where that cross, you know to leave then,
P: Did people leave?
J: Sure, they'd better leave.
P: What kind cases do you know that they would burn crosses in someone's yard?
J: Well, just like, I had a wife and I was treating her bad and wouldn't stay home with her and
wouldn't, I mean, give her nothing to eat and all kind of stuff like that and she'd talk about
that, they'd get after you about that, Oh, it Wouldn't be no more than thatrYtihy \/L.





SR2A/page 12
J: If I had Lina, and I didn't give her nothing to eat and do all kind of way, I couldn't say
nothing about that.
P: I read one thing that was written by the the Klu Klux Klan. It was letter that they wrote
to a white doctor in White Springs and they were telling him to get out of town because he
had given medicine to some black men.
J: Oh.
P: Did that kind of thing ever happen around here?
J: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. No, ma'am.
P: Where did you all go for medical care?
J: We had a, okay, Dr. Philpot, Lina, wasn't he in there? Yeah, Dr. Philpot,
L:
J: No. May...
B:
J: ...Bayer.
L: Bayen, he used to do it.
J: And we had a doctor here,..
K: Dr.
J: ...Dr. Farnia. Then they had a doctor here they called Dr. Peter Ball,
P: What did you do in the early 1900s? Were there any doctors?
J: Yeah. I had a doctor along here, all along in them days.
K:
J: And he was a good doctor, too. You know, he'd come to your house and sit there all night
and whenever you'd wake up he'd the first (laughter) But
he was a good doctor, now I
P: Can you turn that towards your mouth?
J: This way?
L:
J: I hear you, mama. (laughter)
B:____________
J: I hear mama, talking about it. What is it, what you got to say ___. Talk
-----:===rz==^^_--------------------------------Talk





SR2A/page 13
P: Could you shop in the same stores, back in the early 1900s?
J: After we got through the back,
P: You go to the back.
J: You go to the back door. They might go in that front door,
P: You mean go to the store.
J: Yeah, you could go to the store, but go to the back,
L: That was
J: And you better not,..
L:
J: Oh, you come here in 1933, though. 1930, You was all right, '31, when you come here. But
I'know when us would go to Mayo, we ......__''''''' '''''
L: Mayo, again.
J: Shuck. I don't care what we wanted out of the store to eat, we went to that back door and
that man would come there and ask us what us wanted and we'd tell him and he'd go get it
and bring it back to that back door. _And he'd better not stick his
head in that front door. (laughter)
B: When you was young and working in the turpentine, getting gum, did ya'll
have commissary stores that the company owned?
J: That's right, at the Lang, that's where we got our groceries and overalls and them brogan
shoes, everything, from the commissary.
L: Bought our food.
J: And I was, was sixty-seven thousand, and you could pay it off
once a month.
P: Uh huh.
L: That's right.
P: So what did you do when you were turpentining? Did you just go move in a camp or....
J: No, I didn't ever live in no camp. I'd be here and then, see them turpentine folk would have
camps like you say, a big quarter, well there's a quarter was over there, over that fence
over there.
P: Quarter?
B: That's where colored people worked.





SR2A/page 14
J: Yeah.
P: Okay. Where were a lot of people .......
L: In quarters.
J: You talkingabout a time, we'd have a time, when we, we blew money. We be done had a pay day
and blowing part of it and sticking ____ in one another, hot water.
P: Every Monday?
L: Every Monday.
J: Boy, we really have a ball. Turpentine camp.
L: Every Monday, sure as a fact.
J: That's right.
B: Julius, what was to you?
J: Oh, that was when our foreparents was freed from slavery.
B: What do ya'l do to celebrate it?
J: We have them big eats like you.
L:
B: I know, but I
J: Oh.
B:
J: Yeah, we....
P: What do you do to celebrate May 20?
J: We have a big picnic. We have a big picnic, plenty to eat, like cake, chicken,
K: I wish I'd been there.
J: We had a here this time. Lord, we had it.
P: Can I go to your next year?
J: If you be living there now. We had it right out there.
P: You have some, so you do this every July, every May 20.
J: Yes, ma'am. We has it, we has.
P: Were any of these people around here, were any of their grandparents slaves?
J: No, they don't, they no...
L:____
J: ...ain't nobody a slave around here, men. They all dead, what used to be slaves here,





SR2A/page 15
L: I thought your sister was a
J: What all used to be a slave is gone, dead and gone, now.
P: Did you ever hear any stories here about slavery? Have you ever heard stories that others
said?
J: No, no theysure didn't.
P:
L: Look over there on the bed and my pictures of
B: Where the chicken
L:
J: Ma'am?
P: Who started this?
J: What, the celebration?
P: Uh huh.
J: Oh, we used to have that, we used to have it, let me see, in, got started sharing in '21,
'22 but the old died out and let it go down, so I picked it up about three or four years
ago, started it back up....
K: At the time you would
L:
J: Yeah, that's right. Damn.
K: Sing? Singing?
J: No, it wasn't but singing the blues or something. I didn't know nothing about no
long in there.
K: You know, do you sing blues?
J: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. No ma'am.
P: You know any people around here who do play instruments or do singing?
J: Yes'm. Yes'm. I, ain't nobody around here do much else cause we all church folks and the
choir sings.
L: Yeah, in the choir.
P: Uh huh.
L: And my children sing in the choir





SR2A/page 16
P: Uh huh.
L: The other died in '33,
P: Oh.
L: Sang along with the choir.
P: Oh.
L: And I joined the church down here in '33 ____ '''' '' Of course I remember
before I moved to
P: Uh huh.
L: I've got a memory since I was a little girl.
going to church and Sunday school I had to do,
J: Lina, this, on this tape recorderhere, let's sing a tune for her, let's sing it,
P: I'll hold it between you, so I can get both of you. What's the name of the song?
L:
J: "Oh, Jesus."
L: Oh, Jesus, isn't What's your
J: Oh, but you ain't singing, (together,they sing): Oh, my Jesus, he'll
never say no. Oh, my Jesus, he'll never say no. You can call him in the the morning.
You can call him any time. Oh, my Jesus, will never say no. Oh, I tried him, he never said
no. Yes, I tried him, he never said no. You can call him in the morning. You can call him
any time. Oh, my Jesus will never say no,
L: He's our singer.
J: That's right. That's all we gonna give you. We ain't going to give you any more of our
songs.
P: That's beautiful.
L:
P: That is gorgeous.
J: (laughter) Well, ain't going to give you no more of that, now.
L:
J: Now, you talking about singing it, you oughta just come down there, some,....
J: Sure, you're welcome.
L: Why you come to the church, don't think you gonna
J ... ,. . . ....





SR2A/page 17
J: And whenever you come there, I'll tell Margo, Margaret...
L: I may be on the choir.
J: ...and we got a pianist and then I'll tell her that you is there, we want to sing that song
for you,
P: I'd love to.
K: Who wrote it?
J: I don't know who wrote it.
L: who wrote it.
J: But we, we don't.
P: I like that.
L:
P: What time does your church start?
J: We have a....
L: It starts....
P: Eleven?
J: Yeah.
L: And they start Sunday school, too.
J: But now, we won't have no just come this Sunday, now,
P: You have the Fourth of July?
L: We have Independence Day.
J: Second Sunday in
P: So, a week from this Sunday is when you have
J: Yes, ma'am.
L: Yes, ma'am.
P: How about if I come then?
L: Okay!
J: Okay!
P: I'll take my boyfriend.
J: Okay, come on.
L: Come on.
hd love too, love sic y
P: I'd love too, l loveAmusic. fly my $1'qS heros





SR2A/page 18
J: Sure enough?
L:__ used to come to Sunday school and just like that, she did.
J: I sure did, too.
L:
J: Uh huh.
L: And them and they'd come there and go out there to Sunday school.
P: Oh, that's nice.
L: be going to church and we'd be going to their church, too,
P: Uh huh.
L: But, they'd come down here and have Sunday school with us every Sunday morning,
J: There was a bunch of them, too.
P: I'd really like to go.
L:
J: And then I'll tell you...
L:
J: ...you stay here in Branford?
P: I lived in Fort White, but now, my daddy died about a year-and-a-half ago and I moved back to
Gainesville because my mother was there.
J: What name was your father?
P: Who was he?
J: Who was your father's name?
P: His name was Max Puckett. He taught school in Gainesville for a while.
J: Well, you don't know Mr. Bobby Fletcher down here, do you? Run the hardware down there,
L:
P: No. I know and Ruby and Uncle Earl and I know, let's see, the man who, up at the hotel
there, and I know the man who used to write stories for the newspaper here.
J: Well, we got two of them here, now.
P: So, I don't know very many people in Branford.
J: Well, anytime, you welcome. I know you, when you come in there.
P: Well, I'll come in two weeks, in two weeks at the __ right down here.
J: Well, you see the white check right side the road.





SR2A/page 19
L: See that white check.
P: Okay. I know where it is.
L:
P: I've been by it many a time.
J: Eh.
P: And I
L: We are covering it on the second Sunday.
J: Uh huh.
L: And we allow preaching on the fourth Sunday and been too much.
P: Uh huh.
L: We had second.
J: Yeah, we had a singing there last Sunday.
P: Oh. Uh huh.
L:
J: We had a time.
P: So I'll come to both of those for the preaching and the choir.
J: (laughter)
L: Yeah, I sings in the choir. I ushered, first.
P: I used to sing in a choir, too.
L: I joined the church and ushered, joined the usher board the-next year. I joined the usher
board in '34. And I been ushering...
P: Ever since?
L: ...ever since. And I've been on the choir, I joined the choir in '34. I joined the choir.
I think it was in July or August, one. We moved up there to the, a house on the other side
of the church, Mr. Taylor lived in that house.
inviting, and I joined, and I been singing in the choir ever since.
P: Well, I was pastor in Gainesville.
L: _Community Choir, go all to different churches and sing and then
we got a choir in church.
J: I imagine you done get it, h talk
P: Reverend Hampton.





SR2A/page 20
J: Reverend Hampton.
P: Uh huh.
J: C.H. Hampton.
K: So he comes up here?
L:_________
J: Yeah, he comes up here. That's our pastor.
L: That's our pastor, too.
K: Okay.
L: C.H. Hampton.
J: Yes.
P: Did you all meet at church, did you say? You two, did you meet at church?
J: church?
P: Is that how you met each other?
J: No, no, no. Now that air't how wvi met, it wasn't. No, ma'am.
L:
J: I was, I was drinking liquor along in then, wasn't I?
L: I met him at the ball game.
J: (laughter)
L: Met him at the ball game. I did.
P: How old were you?
L: He was old.
J: Oh, no....
L: my husband was dead.
P: Oh.
L: My first husband was in '30 and he was plenty I told him, I'll
J: (laughter)
L: And he was after all that Mr. Lee, I said, Throw it in the the swamp.
That ball. I said, Throw it in the swamp. He got that ball and then he finally
Said, oh! everybody is
Well, the next Sunday I went and just as I walked in _that team





SR2A/page 21
L:
J: It ain't my fault.
L: Well, that's a big Oh! I knbw it.
P: Oh, no.
L: We rushed on to the house and got the doctor, called the doctor. Doctor come right on
and he said if it was just a little bit lower, it would have killed him dead.
P: I know a little boy who died like that.
L: Yeah.
J: Oh, yeah.
L: Said it would've killed him dead. You know, I ain't been to a ball game since. That broke
me up.
J: Yeah, that broke us up. I've played it.
L: I cooked, I cooked, I cooked down there at that cafe on the corner.'-.
P: Uh huh.
L: The first Negro woman cooked in that cafe to eat. I cooked for nine years. I mean straight.
I didn't miss a day. Listen, I didn't have to but I quit that and
I sown bacca.
P: You did what?
L: I sown bacca.
P: What is that?
L: Bacca, bacca.
J: Lord, she's a school girl; she'd don't know nothing about no tobacco.
P: Oh, tobacco, tobacco.
L: Oh, she ain't seen no bacca?
J:
P: 'Okay, I've watched it.





SR2A/page 22
L: I see. I'd go in the fields and help them cut that first
five hundred sticks a day.
P: Oh.
L: And leaves, not enough. Come home and cooks my supper and my two white boys
And after I left that, I cooked at old school
eight years
P: Hard working woman.
J: Oh, yeah.
L: I was going to work ten years and then I was going to retire. Ten:years and then you could
retire. But and in sixty...
J: Eight.
L: ...eight, I had my stroke.
P: Oh.
L: Yeah, I had another stroke that time. ______ I cooks a little
and I washes, but I don't cook. He cooks. I wash when I'm able. I put them in the machine
and he pulls them out and I put them in the dryer. We don't have a lot.
But I don't cook.
P: Do you miss cooking?
L: Huh?
P: Do you miss cooking?
L: Yeah, and I love to, oh! I love to cook. I been cooking ever since I could stand on the
box to the stove. I had to stand on the box with the My mama was
sick. _She died when I was little. I had, I had to
cook for her. She had
P: Uh huh.
L: And she couldn't cook. I'd get in that kitchen, I'd cook that dinner, wash them breakfast
dishes and picked up I cooked them peas and shelled them peas
and I'd cook them till 12:00 and then and them
come, I'd go in there and fix the dinner at table ready to go sofa,
old wooden table. We didn't have a table like they have now.
P: Uh huh.





SR2A/page 23
L: We had made tables, made benches and I that thing and
I'd wash the dishes and I didn't let it bother _I'd better not bother him
cause he working.
P: Uh huh.
L: And work.
J: That's right.
L: And afternoon I thought I, roll out my, here's my peas, work for in the morning, and show
her that I could do and help out. And I helped him with __ I cooked his
supper He studied; I studied _And then they
got up and they left. I'd go off to school and I went to
school half a day. You had to do it. You had to go to school
and I had to wait cause my momma was and my daddy doing all he'd
do and my brother, he runned away all the time. He run away all the time.
P: Where did he run to?
L: Oh, he'd go .Daddy'd go get him, come back, and he'd sit home about a
week or two and then he'd run away again. So I'd go to
school a half a day and I'd work a half a day.
P: How old were you?
L: I was a little old thing.
J: She wants to know how old you was.
L: _________
J: She wants to know how old you was.
L: I don't know how old I was.
P: But you were just a little kid.
L: I don't know how old I was then, but I was small then.
P: Uh huh.
L: I wasn't big enough to stand up to to cook and those stoves
box. There were three: one to the stove, one to this table and one over there at that
place. and then my daddy, I just start and he'd be coming,
they'd put them harnesses up on him and that horse would come
just as straight to that house and feed him.





SR2A/page 24
P: Uh huh.
L: And then I'd _But I'd say....
J: You come up the hard way.
L: Yeah. It was rough when I come up. When I, my daddy got me to back to the field. I had
to go out there and catch that horse and brush him down good, put them on
him and then go right along over there and he'd stand there and
but I would go on over yonder doing the hoeing.
P: Uh huh.
L: Hoeing or picking cotton. And then I had to quit in time for
us to come back home and cook.
P: Where did your daddy work?
L: Farm.
P: So your daddy had some land.
L: Uh huh.
P: And where was this that you lived?
L: I living here. I wasn't married then.
P: Yeah. You lived in Branford?
L: No, lord.
P: Where did you grow up?
L: I, I was....
J: She said where did you grow up, Lina.
L: I grow up of Cypress Lake, he called it Cypress Lake. And the church was Philadelphia
Baptist church
P: Uh huh.
L: And I was born, let me see, I was born out there to that Lake.
P: Uh huh.
L: Not far from that lake. That's what my sister said, see, that what's my older sister
said. But she's dead now. I was born out there.
P: That's pretty far from here?
J: Yeah.
L: Yeah, it's quite a ways.





SR2A/page 25
P: Okay.
L: Live Oak or
P: Right. I've been to Live Oak.
L: And momma....
J: Yeah, but she's pointed you the wrong way.
L:
J: Yeah, but you wasn't born out there.
L: No, I was born out there to just about Cypress Lake out there,
J: Yeah, You go to
you see all those highways over there, looks like a big settlement, project.
P: Uh huh.
J: Turn on that road and go out down there and that's where she lived at.
P: Okay. I know where that is. I've been down that road.
P: That new big project.
J: That's right, that's right.
L: Well, I lived just back on the other side.
J: Uh huh.
P: So your daddy had some land back there.
L: My daddy had land back there. He had four acres of land and he'd tend half of it this year
and tend half of it the next year.
P: Uh huh. So did he, was he born there, too?
L: My daddy? I don't know where my daddy. I never did hear my papa say where he was born. And
when momma died I didn't get to see her; I just see to plat her hair and I've got bad eyes
there in '33, in'32. in '32.
P: Burned out?
L: Uh huh. Everything I've got.
J: Now, now. That's more than house in '40.
L: In '40, yeah.
J: And it must have been '50.
L: Yeah, it was in the fifties.
J-: W'en the house got burned.





SR2A/page 26
L:
J: Both sides of the house right there on that corner, big old red house.
L: Right on the corner. It got it
J: So we just had to build again.
P: Oh.
L: Yeah, and I was up there and and I had two grandchildren
about that high -- two little boys -- but I'd send them down next
until I come in and when they see me come in, then they'd come home.
P: Uh huh.
L: Now, he was working upstate over to that rock mine.
J: Rock mine.
P: Okay, I know where that is.
L: And when they come in before I did, they'd come in,
knock the over out there.
P: Oh.
L: And knocked his eyeball out.
J: Knocked his eyes out. And
P: Did he still live?
L: No.
J: No, lord.
P: I didn't think so. Oh.
L: all from my momma and the church. I had got it all.
P:
J: Well, I get all the money
L: All that money was spread up.
J: A pile of....
L: I had a pile of his money. I tried to get him to take it. He said no,
I wanted to pay him back. He said, No, no. You wasn't the cause of it burning up. We, we
doing wrong, said, to pay that money back.
P: I agree. I agree.
L:





SR2A/page 27
P:
L: And I had on a ragged, the raggedest thing I could find.
P: Because you were picking.
L: Well, I had like to pick In the morning I was going to
work and I had a man up there, a young, my boys flew over hard and Julius's arm looked like
a
J:
L: So I had a
P: Oh.
L: When I come in here and my house was burnt down, I had a stove my husband give me for my
Christmas present. I ain't never seed none like and ain't never been able to get nary another
like it. And I cried go crazy over me. Everyone called
me, go back home and come back, give me a nickel, give me a dime, give me, give me some money,
I've got to use it later, some money, I was a I tell you, and then
those children they just cried right along with me.
P: Oh.
L: Mr. Mr. here, he come along, he cried.
J: You know ? Fine man, wasn't he?
L: He said, Don't cry, don't cry. You'll get more than you ever had, but you got something that
J: Yeah, yeah.
L: He said, Don't cry. Said, we gonna take care of you and we had, come back
with a box of groceries, big and long enough,
J: Don't forget
L: And Mr. ...
J:
L: ...and Elvis...
J: Elvis Smith.
L: ...Elvis Smith, he had a ______ box, and had it
full, and here he come. and here come some more.





Si2A/page 28
L: Boy, I just had it, I just had it. I just _But now that,,.
J: That full__
L: ...wasn't
J: That's right.
L: Begin a day, you's got one mattress, we getting a mattresses, we getting a bed, we getting
bedstead, we getting a chair, we getting a sofa, we getting a frigidaire. This is the first
Well, go back and look again.
J: Had so many things we didn't know where to put it. That's right.
L: Set what they couldn't get inside on the porch.
P: Oh.
L: Set it on the porch. And Mr. ya'll got a home there as long as you
live and we stayed there and stayed there and stayed there. Mr. he'd
come out and look and I'd come over there. I was watching I looking at
him, he come right at that back door. I said, This to myself. I
wouldn't watch him, but I'd watch him here. I said, There's something wrong. He come right
straight. He say, Lina, where's Julius? I say, he's over in the house. He said, Come here
Julius. He said, You and Lina been living back here all your life, looks like to me. You
done stayed here till it looks like it's your home. Said, Come on over yere, say, I say here
, give it to you, draw it up and everything, and
your house and that'll be you and Lina's home, this house is. And he
us and I put my Head He was working hard road and I
was cooking down to the cafe. I was at the same time and helped the
woman who was coming in. She was a white lady. She could cook put she didn't know how to
put out the
P: Uh huh.
L: And he said, Lina you stay and show her how to put out the oyster
and I stayed there you just stay
around here and show here that she don't know, she'll ask you, and if you see her going round
then you tell her. I said, I don't know how to do that. He said, Oh yeah, come on now. They
was good to me. And generally he was, they like to taken him away from them.
B: Sure did, I thought.





SR2A/ page 29
L: His wife took him.
P: Was this your son?
L: Grandson.
J: Grandson.
P: Grandson. Uh huh.
L: Took him and carried him and they drove and to the office there was
my daddy trying to cut yard and pumping gas. And he said, he said,
When you pump that gas, you keep that money. And said, come on here, boy,
then give me that money. He said, No, I ain't. I'm going to keep this money, till Mr. what-
you-call-it come back.
J: Puckett. Puckett.
L: Mr. Puckett come back and give it to him myself and they was in _and she
give her, she'd tie it down, she'd set it out there on the walkway and she'd tell him, She
said, now, you see this baby down here I don't want none of you
to walk over him and step on him, said walk around him
J:
L: Sai4 Walk around him, said, That's my little boy. If you going to be a be one,
but be a clean one.
P: Uh huh.
J: That's what she said.
L: Don't be a nasty one, be a clean one and God knows them people was clean about that place.
The was about it?
P: Who was there now? What was their names?
J: Walter Mayfield.
L: I tell you he's right here.
P: Oh, you talking about who he is working for?
L: He was working for Mr. But I he was
he finished up, he was in college. He's teaching school, now.
P: And that's your grandson.
L: Yeah.
J: Yeah.





SR2A/page30
J: He's says I ain't call myself into ...
L: That's the grandboy.
J: ...I ain't call myself into _______ but I got to have a
L: That's my grandson.
P: A what?
J: A co-cola.
P: Okay, I'll have a little bit. Just a small glass.
L: No, he don't have no small ones.
P: Oh.
(Lina is singing in the background)
J: You heard about that accident down there yesterday or two, didn't you? About that fellow
getting killed right out there?
P: I heard about a semi, the man who got killed down south who was from Branforc. That accident?
J: That man got killed down south?
P: Well, yeah. It's someone that Uncle Earl over there goes fishing with and he got killed in an
accident but he wasn't in Branford at the time. He was going down to Okeechobee or some where.
J: Oh! Oh, man, she's trying to tell us
P: I don't know his name. When Karen comes back, she might know his name.
J: See, he wasn't the one to get killed hike that -- a train killed him, see.
P: No.
L: It was right here near about in front of my house.
P: Really? Oh, that's bad.
L: Oh.
J: Do you ever come down....





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