Title: Interview with Monologue (July 15, 1971)
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00008201/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Monologue (July 15, 1971)
Alternate Title: Monologue
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: July 15, 1971
Spatial Coverage: Lumbee County (Fla.)
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00008201
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: LUM 233

Table of Contents
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Full Text


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and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of

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LUM 233A F, des

MONOLOGUE: Adolph Dial with Miscellaneous Commentary pwh

DATE: July 15, 1971

D: Mr. John L. Carter is now gone. One story he told me early in the

day, we didn't put on tape, was that one family who wanted to enter

the Blue School at one time in the Burnt Swamp Community, there was

some question about blood, so rather than let them enter the school

they closed the school down for a year. At this time and of course

for many years, the late 19th century, and also in the 20th century,

the Indian people, many of them were very particular about just who

entered the schools, for the simple reason that they at one time felt

that they had to fight hard not to be swallowed up in the black

community, that is, in this period from 1835 to 1887, and working

so hard to get their own schools going in 1887, of course there

were subscription schools prior to that time. Some academies, but

working hard to gt their schools going, after 1887, they wanted to

make sure that they stayed as pure Indian as possible. As a matter

of fact, it was in the 1920's that one group of people moved into

the area, and coming from out of state, which involved a lawsuit, and

at this particular time, a forced school systemwas established, known

as the Independence. Also, the state of North Carolina

established, or by legislation passed a law creating a legislative

committee, or as someone called it, a geneological committee, who

would decide on all families, who would enter any of the Indian schools

in Robeson County. In other words, if there was a question of blood,

the case might wind up before this committee, and the members of this

committee were appointed by ... once the governor appointed the members

2 pwh

of this committee, every replacement for committee members were named

by the committee itself. It was somewhat a perpetual committee, and

this committee operated for many years, oh, perhaps from somewhere

around the '20's, the late '20's, I will check this out later, up

until the Brown Decision 1954. After the Brown Decision, in 1954,

I never did hear of the committee anymore. The committee seemed to

die a natural death in its own way. Now that the schools are integrated,

we find the present lawsuit of course, the Indians have a suit in

federal court. They claim that they are not really concerned too

much with the schools being integrated, bit they are concerned about

the gerrymanderingof the lines. They did get a dirty deal, on the

lines of say, Red Springs, the boundary lines of Red Springs City

Schools, which comes right up to Oxendine Schoolis campus. This,

they felt, was very unfair. It's another example of minority groups

always fighting an uphill battle, and often times losing. You might

say the same situation, as of this date, it's true with getting

candidates selected from the Indian race. Now, I have a brother,

Herman Dial, who is a county commissioner, but he was elected from the

Pembroke -Maxton district, and this is a predominantly Indian district.

A quite a few blacks in the district also. Now, it is true that no

no Lumbee Indian as of today, has ever won a county election if in

competition with a white candidate. This gives,this gives an example

of difficulty involved in getting Indians elected. Today I met with

Mr. Hammonds, a black man from Washington, D.C., who came

down to inspect our project. Our project was, is known as Lumbee Indian

Caucus. This is a project funded by the Commission on Race and Religion

of the United Methodist Church. We are funded in the amount of $20,000.00.

We don't have the money yet, but he saidthat it would be here no later

3 pwh

thaniSeptember the first, in the amount of $20,000.00, for voter

registration and civic education. We would hope that out of this,

would come the thing of candidates, not candidates, but people,

learning about the candidates, knowing about government, making up

their own minds, and voting their own conviction. It is not at all

the purpose of the Lumbee Indian Caucus, to try to dictate to anyone.

But we would like to see the principles of democracy involved. We

would like to see Lumbee Indians have an opportunity, example, we

have never sent a Lumbee Indian to the North Carolina House. Mr.

Weldon Lowry tried it once, and before Mr. Weldon Lowry, the Reverend

D.F. Lowry tried it. They both failed. I'm thinking about trying it

in '72. It's a difficult task. I have to have a lot of support if I

decide to run, and even more support to get elected. I have to give

it serious consideration. I feel it a duty if I can do some good.

Speaking of politics, the Indians love their politics, and they fight

to keep, they play real hard. Of course, like any other minority, often

times when an election comes, the majority money comes in, and this

kind of thing is very difficult to fight. If you could keep money out

of elections onthe local level, I do feel that you could have a much

better campaign. When people need money, often times they sell them-

selves out, that is, they will vote sometimes for candidates who have

the money. Of course, this is not only true of Lumbee Indians, it's

true with blacks, and it's true among the whites, too. Even up on a

high level. As a matter of fact, the whites do more of it than anyone

else, because they have so much money and oftentimes they are tempted

by big positions that they can get with more money involved, and of

course, Itm day'ing-that human beings are human beings, in this respect,

really, all of them are about alike. Oftentimes the real pioneer, in

politics in thepolitical arena among Lumbee Indians is crucified. He

4 pwh

has to give up a lot. He has to sacrifice himself. He has to really

get out and preach for what he believes to be right, and if he's

convinced that he ought to do this, then he does it, then sometimes

his own people will crucify him. Uncle Tontos, or Red Apples will

always say, "Well, he's doing te wrong thing.Now is not the time.

This is not the time. Let's wait a while. I know he's right, but

this is not the way to do it." And you fight these battles constantly,

one after another. Changing subjects, I want to say something about

the recent paradethat was heldin Pemhbke, July the Fourth celebration.

Well, it was something more than a parade, it was wonderful, it was

grand! And there were floats with Indians, headdresses, and so forth,

and the Baltimore Indians, under the direction of Herbert Locklear,

who heads the American Indian Center in Baltimoe. Came down and sang,

gave us some dances, and there were craft shows, and so forth. But the

point I want to ake is some of my friends said to me, "Well, Adolph,

What do you think about this? Do you think it's a good thing?" I

said, "Yes, I think it's grand. It teaches Indian awareness. It helps

people with an identity. It helps to bring the boys back home from

Baltimore to and so forth, andlet them meet once again and

have a good time." One fella says, "Yes, btt our history was not a

history was not a history of We,we've always had the white

man's colony, I mean, we've always had the white man's habits and

so forth. We're descendants of John White's lost Colony. We never did

do those Indian things." I replied, "Well, I really don't know what

the Indians in the area did a couple of thousand years ago, that would

be rather difficult to say." I suppose today it's one of individual

choice. If he feels that he wants to wear headdress, fine, if he wants

to do the snake dance or the rain dance, fine. But if he wants to be

5 pwh

& white man, perhaps at this stage of the game, the best thing for

him to do is to move from Robeson County. Because as long as he's here,

even with treatment being rather good today, he's going to fight

certain obstacles. This business of an Indian feeling that, that

he has an equal opportunity here, it's rather difficult to feel this

way. It's not quite an equal opportunity as of this minute. The road's

hard, it's a difficult hill. I might also add that really the best

leadership needs to stay at home. I need to work, and I have a job

to do. And the people who have made perhaps the greatest contribution,

are those that decided to stay here and fight the battle. Oh, pioneers,

must not be overlooked, too. Men like W.L. Moore, the first principal

of Pembroke State University. And Preston Locklear, and John Dial, who

were on the original board. And many others. Special significance will

always go to Henry Barry Lowry. I, I want to make this one observation

too. I remember when I was a boy, that people who seemed to be out-

standing people anong the whites who were tk leaders, and I felt that

I was nobody and they were something, today some of those same people

are still around, and I can see Indians by the hundreds, Lumbee Indians

by many, many in the same area, and __ Pembroke, who now have

surpassed the white wants to be it. The best of the

leadership today, the best trained mind, the best from an economic

standpoint in the Pembroke community, I would have to say belong to

the Lumbees. Yet, you still have some who feel that white is white, and

the white fella feels ,"Well, I'm white, andl'm just a little bit better."

I recall somewhere around 1958 or '59, a few incidents,ghing over

to the FairmontL to a square dance, and I was in the line, and the

policeman says, "You can't go in." And I believe this has been told

once on this tape. He says, "Are you from PeTroke?" "Yes," I said.

6 pwh

"Are you Indian?" I replied, "Yes." "Well, you can't go in." This

goes to show that it's not always the looks, that it's just a name,

it's a state of mind that people have. It's a state of mind that

needs rejuvenating, it's a state of mind that needs some training.

It's a state of mind that needs to get rid of prejudice. It's a

state of mind that needs some Christianity. It's a state of mind

that needs many things. In spite of all the difficulty involved,

I think today, 1971, July 15, the Lumbee Indians can say that we,

we are doing rather good. We have Thomas Oxendine, who is

head of the, who is director of Public Relations of the BIA in

Washington, D.C. Or we have Sehierbach who is director of American

Indian Education in Washington, D.C. Or we have Thomas Oxen---or

we have Brantley Blue, who is the first Indian ever to sit on the

Indian Claims Commission. And Pernell Sweat in Washington, D.C.,

who has a good position, who works with Adult Basic Education. I

find that Lumbees, if given an opportunity, will succeed the hard

workers. They, if they have the the zeal they seem to be

far better than the average to fight obstacles. Prior to World War

II, no...prior to World War I, very few of the people had ever been

away. Perhaps less than a dozen had married into the white race, and

coming of World War II, many, many dozens married into the white

race, and today in some families, all of them are married into the

white race.

[New recording....July 19, 1971]

This is July 19, 1971, Adolph Dial speaking. I want to report a word

or two about the school breaking. What we would call school closing,

but in this area, we, they were known as school brehkings. This was at

the last day of school, commencement exercise,lots of hot dog stands,

7 pwh

ice cream, and so forth, and people looked forward, they would drop

the mule and plow, they would drop their work to come to the school

breaking. And oftentimes, it was, it was a big time, and lots of

fights, lots of taking place, sometimes a killing, some-

times someone cut with a knife, and this goes to show there was

not very little to do, as far as social get-together. Too,when they

would have what we call a pond Lots of people would take

their family, and go down to the pond, catch fish, cook fish, and a

few drunks would be around, a few fights would take place, oncd

again showing that there was very little to do. Woodsawings too

was a get-together. People would meet and saw wood, several families

would gather and bring their saws, and sharpen them up, and during

the day, the logs would be prepared, that is, trees cut and on the

ground, ready to saw, and that night, women would have a big feed

for the boys and they would go out and cut wood for two or three

hours, enough to do the whole year, and then come in and eat

chicken and cake, and have a good time. It was a case of it

was really cooperative effort...

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