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LUM 233A F, des
MONOLOGUE: Adolph Dial with Miscellaneous Commentary pwh
DATE: July 15, 1971
D: Mr. John L. Carter is now gone. One story he told me early in the
day, we didn't put on tape, was that one family who wanted to enter
the Blue School at one time in the Burnt Swamp Community, there was
some question about blood, so rather than let them enter the school
they closed the school down for a year. At this time and of course
for many years, the late 19th century, and also in the 20th century,
the Indian people, many of them were very particular about just who
entered the schools, for the simple reason that they at one time felt
that they had to fight hard not to be swallowed up in the black
community, that is, in this period from 1835 to 1887, and working
so hard to get their own schools going in 1887, of course there
were subscription schools prior to that time. Some academies, but
working hard to gt their schools going, after 1887, they wanted to
make sure that they stayed as pure Indian as possible. As a matter
of fact, it was in the 1920's that one group of people moved into
the area, and coming from out of state, which involved a lawsuit, and
at this particular time, a forced school systemwas established, known
as the Independence. Also, the state of North Carolina
established, or by legislation passed a law creating a legislative
committee, or as someone called it, a geneological committee, who
would decide on all families, who would enter any of the Indian schools
in Robeson County. In other words, if there was a question of blood,
the case might wind up before this committee, and the members of this
committee were appointed by ... once the governor appointed the members
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of this committee, every replacement for committee members were named
by the committee itself. It was somewhat a perpetual committee, and
this committee operated for many years, oh, perhaps from somewhere
around the '20's, the late '20's, I will check this out later, up
until the Brown Decision 1954. After the Brown Decision, in 1954,
I never did hear of the committee anymore. The committee seemed to
die a natural death in its own way. Now that the schools are integrated,
we find the present lawsuit of course, the Indians have a suit in
federal court. They claim that they are not really concerned too
much with the schools being integrated, bit they are concerned about
the gerrymanderingof the lines. They did get a dirty deal, on the
lines of say, Red Springs, the boundary lines of Red Springs City
Schools, which comes right up to Oxendine Schoolis campus. This,
they felt, was very unfair. It's another example of minority groups
always fighting an uphill battle, and often times losing. You might
say the same situation, as of this date, it's true with getting
candidates selected from the Indian race. Now, I have a brother,
Herman Dial, who is a county commissioner, but he was elected from the
Pembroke -Maxton district, and this is a predominantly Indian district.
A quite a few blacks in the district also. Now, it is true that no
no Lumbee Indian as of today, has ever won a county election if in
competition with a white candidate. This gives,this gives an example
of difficulty involved in getting Indians elected. Today I met with
Mr. Hammonds, a black man from Washington, D.C., who came
down to inspect our project. Our project was, is known as Lumbee Indian
Caucus. This is a project funded by the Commission on Race and Religion
of the United Methodist Church. We are funded in the amount of $20,000.00.
We don't have the money yet, but he saidthat it would be here no later
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thaniSeptember the first, in the amount of $20,000.00, for voter
registration and civic education. We would hope that out of this,
would come the thing of candidates, not candidates, but people,
learning about the candidates, knowing about government, making up
their own minds, and voting their own conviction. It is not at all
the purpose of the Lumbee Indian Caucus, to try to dictate to anyone.
But we would like to see the principles of democracy involved. We
would like to see Lumbee Indians have an opportunity, example, we
have never sent a Lumbee Indian to the North Carolina House. Mr.
Weldon Lowry tried it once, and before Mr. Weldon Lowry, the Reverend
D.F. Lowry tried it. They both failed. I'm thinking about trying it
in '72. It's a difficult task. I have to have a lot of support if I
decide to run, and even more support to get elected. I have to give
it serious consideration. I feel it a duty if I can do some good.
Speaking of politics, the Indians love their politics, and they fight
to keep, they play real hard. Of course, like any other minority, often
times when an election comes, the majority money comes in, and this
kind of thing is very difficult to fight. If you could keep money out
of elections onthe local level, I do feel that you could have a much
better campaign. When people need money, often times they sell them-
selves out, that is, they will vote sometimes for candidates who have
the money. Of course, this is not only true of Lumbee Indians, it's
true with blacks, and it's true among the whites, too. Even up on a
high level. As a matter of fact, the whites do more of it than anyone
else, because they have so much money and oftentimes they are tempted
by big positions that they can get with more money involved, and of
course, Itm day'ing-that human beings are human beings, in this respect,
really, all of them are about alike. Oftentimes the real pioneer, in
politics in thepolitical arena among Lumbee Indians is crucified. He
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has to give up a lot. He has to sacrifice himself. He has to really
get out and preach for what he believes to be right, and if he's
convinced that he ought to do this, then he does it, then sometimes
his own people will crucify him. Uncle Tontos, or Red Apples will
always say, "Well, he's doing te wrong thing.Now is not the time.
This is not the time. Let's wait a while. I know he's right, but
this is not the way to do it." And you fight these battles constantly,
one after another. Changing subjects, I want to say something about
the recent paradethat was heldin Pemhbke, July the Fourth celebration.
Well, it was something more than a parade, it was wonderful, it was
grand! And there were floats with Indians, headdresses, and so forth,
and the Baltimore Indians, under the direction of Herbert Locklear,
who heads the American Indian Center in Baltimoe. Came down and sang,
gave us some dances, and there were craft shows, and so forth. But the
point I want to ake is some of my friends said to me, "Well, Adolph,
What do you think about this? Do you think it's a good thing?" I
said, "Yes, I think it's grand. It teaches Indian awareness. It helps
people with an identity. It helps to bring the boys back home from
Baltimore to and so forth, andlet them meet once again and
have a good time." One fella says, "Yes, btt our history was not a
history was not a history of We,we've always had the white
man's colony, I mean, we've always had the white man's habits and
so forth. We're descendants of John White's lost Colony. We never did
do those Indian things." I replied, "Well, I really don't know what
the Indians in the area did a couple of thousand years ago, that would
be rather difficult to say." I suppose today it's one of individual
choice. If he feels that he wants to wear headdress, fine, if he wants
to do the snake dance or the rain dance, fine. But if he wants to be
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& white man, perhaps at this stage of the game, the best thing for
him to do is to move from Robeson County. Because as long as he's here,
even with treatment being rather good today, he's going to fight
certain obstacles. This business of an Indian feeling that, that
he has an equal opportunity here, it's rather difficult to feel this
way. It's not quite an equal opportunity as of this minute. The road's
hard, it's a difficult hill. I might also add that really the best
leadership needs to stay at home. I need to work, and I have a job
to do. And the people who have made perhaps the greatest contribution,
are those that decided to stay here and fight the battle. Oh, pioneers,
must not be overlooked, too. Men like W.L. Moore, the first principal
of Pembroke State University. And Preston Locklear, and John Dial, who
were on the original board. And many others. Special significance will
always go to Henry Barry Lowry. I, I want to make this one observation
too. I remember when I was a boy, that people who seemed to be out-
standing people anong the whites who were tk leaders, and I felt that
I was nobody and they were something, today some of those same people
are still around, and I can see Indians by the hundreds, Lumbee Indians
by many, many in the same area, and __ Pembroke, who now have
surpassed the white wants to be it. The best of the
leadership today, the best trained mind, the best from an economic
standpoint in the Pembroke community, I would have to say belong to
the Lumbees. Yet, you still have some who feel that white is white, and
the white fella feels ,"Well, I'm white, andl'm just a little bit better."
I recall somewhere around 1958 or '59, a few incidents,ghing over
to the FairmontL to a square dance, and I was in the line, and the
policeman says, "You can't go in." And I believe this has been told
once on this tape. He says, "Are you from PeTroke?" "Yes," I said.
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"Are you Indian?" I replied, "Yes." "Well, you can't go in." This
goes to show that it's not always the looks, that it's just a name,
it's a state of mind that people have. It's a state of mind that
needs rejuvenating, it's a state of mind that needs some training.
It's a state of mind that needs to get rid of prejudice. It's a
state of mind that needs some Christianity. It's a state of mind
that needs many things. In spite of all the difficulty involved,
I think today, 1971, July 15, the Lumbee Indians can say that we,
we are doing rather good. We have Thomas Oxendine, who is
head of the, who is director of Public Relations of the BIA in
Washington, D.C. Or we have Sehierbach who is director of American
Indian Education in Washington, D.C. Or we have Thomas Oxen---or
we have Brantley Blue, who is the first Indian ever to sit on the
Indian Claims Commission. And Pernell Sweat in Washington, D.C.,
who has a good position, who works with Adult Basic Education. I
find that Lumbees, if given an opportunity, will succeed the hard
workers. They, if they have the the zeal they seem to be
far better than the average to fight obstacles. Prior to World War
II, no...prior to World War I, very few of the people had ever been
away. Perhaps less than a dozen had married into the white race, and
coming of World War II, many, many dozens married into the white
race, and today in some families, all of them are married into the
white race.
[New recording....July 19, 1971]
This is July 19, 1971, Adolph Dial speaking. I want to report a word
or two about the school breaking. What we would call school closing,
but in this area, we, they were known as school brehkings. This was at
the last day of school, commencement exercise,lots of hot dog stands,
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ice cream, and so forth, and people looked forward, they would drop
the mule and plow, they would drop their work to come to the school
breaking. And oftentimes, it was, it was a big time, and lots of
fights, lots of taking place, sometimes a killing, some-
times someone cut with a knife, and this goes to show there was
not very little to do, as far as social get-together. Too,when they
would have what we call a pond Lots of people would take
their family, and go down to the pond, catch fish, cook fish, and a
few drunks would be around, a few fights would take place, oncd
again showing that there was very little to do. Woodsawings too
was a get-together. People would meet and saw wood, several families
would gather and bring their saws, and sharpen them up, and during
the day, the logs would be prepared, that is, trees cut and on the
ground, ready to saw, and that night, women would have a big feed
for the boys and they would go out and cut wood for two or three
hours, enough to do the whole year, and then come in and eat
chicken and cake, and have a good time. It was a case of it
was really cooperative effort...
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