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Title: Children-Odums Home
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Title: Children-Odums Home
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Creator: Locklear, Janie Maynor ( Interviewer )
Suslowicz, Josephine Ann ( Transcriber )
Publication Date: 1973
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Bibliographic ID: UF00008185
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: University of Florida
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Table of Contents
    Copyright
        Copyright
    Interview
        Page 1
        Page 2
        Page 3
        Page 4
        Page 5
        Page 6
        Page 7
        Page 8
        Page 9
        Page 10
        Page 11
        Page 12
        Page 13
        Page 14
        Page 15
        Page 16
        Page 17
        Page 18
        Page 19
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COPYRIGHT NOTICE


This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
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Fair use limts the amount of material that may be
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For all other permissions and requests, contact the
SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida









LUM 74A
Date: May 7, 1973
Subjects: Children at Odum Home
Interviewer: Janie Maynor Locklear (L:)
Transcriber: Josephine Ann Suslowicz

SIDE I


L: ...Oral History Program under the auspices of the University of Florida.

We're at the Odum Home in Pembroke. Today is May 7, 1973. The gdum Home is

a home for children that is sponsored by the Southern Baptist Association.

One time the Odum Home was a home for Indian children. Uh, now I'm talking

to Mr. Jerry Lowry. Jerry, how old are you?

J: Eleven.

L: Wh.you le t yr h. ... what grade we you in?

J: Fourth.

L: In fourth grade, and where do you go to school, Jerry?

J: Pembroke.

L: Pembroke what?

J: Elementary.

L: Pembroke Elementary School, and who's your teacher there, Jerry?

J: I got three teachers.

L: You have three teachers, and what are their names?

J: One of 'em's Miss Sawyer, and one of 'em's Miss Hannah, one's Mrs. DtS

L: Uh, Mrs. Des Miss Hannah, and who else?

J: Miss Sawyer.

L: Miss Sawyer, oh, I see. Uh, what does--what do each of the teachers teach?

J: Oh, Miss Sawyer teaches science, and Miss Hannah teaches us English, and

Mrs. D ee teaches math.

L: Oh, I see. So you have a full day of work each day then, don't you?

J: Yes.

L: Where were you born, Jerry?

J: Hospital.









LUM 74A


In a hospital. Were you born in Robeson County?

Um-um. (Negative)

Huh?

Um-um. (Negative)

Were you born in Lumberton, or...

Um-um. In Raiford.

In Raiford. Oh, you were born in Hoke County then, weren't you? Where did

you used to go to school?

Um, Raiford.

Raiford. When you went to schoolN uh, did you go to South Hoke Elementary

School?

Yes.

You did? Uh, at that time was it called Hawk--Hawkeye School?

Yes.

Oh, it was, and, uh, you had high school students there at that time, didn't

you?

Yes.

Did you go to school in the first-what grade did you go to school there?

First.

The first grade, and at that time was it all Indian children?

Um-um. (Negative)

Were most of the children that went to school there Indian children?

Yes.

I think it wasp Um, and when did you--when did you come to Pembroke? In

what grade?

Um, second.

Second grade, and you're in the fourth grade now, right?

Yes.









LUM 74A 3


L: Did you ever study about Indians in school?

J: No, _DvrtL I do.

L: What do you learn--study about Indians in school? Anything?

J: No.

L: No? Do--don't you learn anything at all about Indians in school, huh?

J: No.

L: Tell me what you know about Indians.

J: Um-um. (Negative)

L: Don't you know anything about Indians? Do you know anything about Indians

in Robeson County?

J: No.

L: You don't know anything. Are you a Indian?

J: Yes.

L: And you can't tell me anything about Indians?

J: No.

L: Do you know anything about the history about the Indians of Robeson County?

J: No.

L: No? What do you know about the Tuscaroras?

J: Nothing.

L: Nothing? You don't ever hear it mentioned at school?

J: No.

L: Do you have any children in your class that are Tuscaroras?

J: No.

L: You don't? Um, do you think aow people Avt ?

J: fa^- S>qvM.

L: Some of 'em are. Do you think Indian people are treated fairly?

J: Yes.

L: All the time?









LUM 74A


J: Not all the time, no.

L: Have you ever been treated unfairly because you were amIndian?

J: Not because I was a Indian.

L: You -we0 t 4

J: That's got nothing to do with it.

L: Doesn't have anything to do with it. When were you treated unfairly?

J: Um-um.

L: Can you think of any time you were ever treated unfairly?

J: No.

L: Huh?

J: No.

L: You can't? You're always treated fair. Have you ever heard grown-up people

talking about Indians not being treated fairly?

J: No.
Ao1' t.
L: You haven!rt and you can't tell me anything--what's it like to be a Indian?

J: Well, you get to play, and no school, and get to go hAvil- ,

L: Talk louder. Did you say no school?

J: Yes.

L: Okay, go ahead.

J: And, um, you get to play all the time, and get to go on hunting trips, and



L: What do Indian people hunt with?



L: Uh, do they have rifles?

J: Yes.

L: Are they good hunters or bad hunters?

J: Good hunters.

L: Good hunters. What--what do they hunt?









LUM 74A


J: Meat. and food.

L: Meat and food. Okay, what kind of foodZ birds, deer?

J: Deer amd rabbit and all Wha- kind of thing.

L: What about fishing? Are Indian people good fishermen?

J: Yes.

L: Huh?

J: Un-hum. (Affirmative)

L: You ever go fishing?

J: Yes.

L: You ever catch anything?

J: Yes.

L: You like to go fishing?

J: Yes.

L: What about farming? Are Indian people good farmers?

J: Yes.

L: Have you ever lived on a farm?

J: Yes.

L: What did you do on the farm?

J: I don't know)it's been so long.

L: What did you grow? Did you grow things?

J: Yes.

L: What were some of the things you grew?

J: Tobaccoo awd corn, wheat-*-A-all kind of stuff.

L: Uhv what else can you tell me about Indians? If you were going away and you

went to New York City and you setd people you were a Indian, what else could

you tell them?

J: Um-um. (Negative)

L: Hum? If they asked you what kind of Indian were you, what would you say?









LUM 74A


J: Half Cherokee.

L: Huh?

J: Ur-un.

L: Go ahead. Half what? Hum? Would you be a Lumbee, or a Tuscarora, or a

Cherokee, or a...

J: A Cherokee.

L: A Cherokee, hum?

J: A"t T toy y" TNi LC Vle( 'c--

L: You .ad-~e. you were a Cherokee from North Carolina?

J: Yeah, I'm eyekri



L: This is Janie Maynor Locklear. I'm still at the Odum Home in Pembroke, and

now I'm going to talk to, um, Mr. um, Mace Lowry. Mace, how are you today?

M: Fine.

L: And tell me a little bit about yourself. How old are you Mace?

M: Twelve.

L: Twelve years old. What grade are you in?

M: The sixth.

L: The sixth grade. Uh, where do you go to school?

M: Pembroke.

L: Pembroke...

M: Pembroke Elementary.

L: Pembroke Elementary school. Where did you used to go to school before you

came to the Odum Home?

M: Used to go to Fairgrove.
0 'j
L: Fairgrtve--and at Fairgrove therebase.,grades all the way through high school,

aren't there?


M: Yes, ma'am.









LUM 74A


L: What grade were you in when you went to school at Fairgrove?

M: The third.

L: The third grade. Were all the children at Fairgrove Indian children at that

time?

M: No, mc'AtA,

L: No, it was integrated?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: Okay, uh, at Pembroke Elementary School are all the children there Indian

children?

M: No, ma'am.

L: Are all the children in your room Indian children?

M: No, ma'am.

L: Are most of the children in your room Indian children?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: Okay, uh, how many Black children do you have in your room?

M: One.

L: One. Have any White children in your room?

M: No, ma'am.

L: No. Ur, tell me a little bit about, um, your school. Do--do you have just

one teacher, or do you have several teachers to teach different things?

M: Well, I have two teachers.

L: What are their names?

M: Miee Stei d and Miss, uh...

L: You've forgotten her name. What does she teach?

M: Oh, music.

L: Oh, Mrs. Jones "li.k riuila.

M: Um-hum.

L: And she just comes into your room once a week or so to teach music?










LUM 74A


M: Yes, ma'am. Tuesday

L: Tuesday, and then Mr. Raiford teaches you all the rest of the week?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: Uh-huh. Do you, uh, do you have an art teacher?

M: No, ma'am.

L: No art teacher. Oh, I see. Uh, tell me a little bit about what does it

mean to be Indian to you. Are you a Indian?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: What kind of Indian are you?

M: Lumbee.

L: A Lumbee Indian. Tell me a little bit about what it means to be-a. Indian

to you.

M: I just can't explain how could it be.

L: Can't explain it. Uh, do you have any children in your room that are Tus-
5
carora,?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: Can you tell me anything about the Tuscarora Indians?

M: Well, they claim this and that, and they're trying to find out who

I believe they done found out, and they went down and

__t__c___ and they go around saying this and that--everything

L: And how many are children in your room claim to be--say that they are Tus-

caroras?

M: One.

L: Just one, uh-huh. Is it a boy or girl?

M: Boy.

L: Um-hum, uh, which group does he belong to, the Howard Brooks group, or the

E.C.R.I.? Do you know?

M: The Howard Brooks group.








LUM 74A


L: Urn-hum, did he rv-r b44 ocn t -e gKt r +-i O V ?

M: I don't know1 He stayed out.

L: He stayed out of school? B he stayed out of school that week?

M: He stayed out of school about five days.

L: Um-hum, um, tell me a little bit about what do you know about the Indian

people here. Do you know anything about the--the history of the Lumbee

Indian, about their past? Do you know where they got their name? Just

tell me all that you know.

M: I believe that they got their name from Lumberton.

L: Um-hum, um, do you know anything about, um, their past history?

M: No, ma'am.

L: You ever study Indians in school?

M: Some.

L: What do you study?

M: Well, right now we're studying about Columbus discovered them-4n America.

L: Um-hum. Why-do you learn about the Indians in Columbus?
4414- cA(Ut ^
M: Well, I guess that we were called Indians at first and he--he thought he'd

land at--on the--landed on India, or somewhere like that, and he called--

'cause we was brown, he called us Indians.

L: Oh, I see. So that's where the Indian people got their name) It-sfrom

Columbus. Did you learn anything about, um, uh, was he good to the Indians,

or were the Indians good to him, do you know?

M: He was good to the Indians, but then he back to prove that he dis-

covered a new land.

L: Um-hum.

M: But the Indians weren't too good on him.

L: Um-hum. Do you, uh, do you think Indian people are treated fairly?


M: No, ma'am.









LUM 74A


L: Why do you say no?

M: Well because we had this land first, and they started trying to drive us

out.

L: QJk in Robeson County have you ever been treated unfair because you were a

Indian?

M: No, ma'am.

L: YouTz been to the store and couldn't buy something?

M: No.

L: Um, do you, um, you feel like the Indian people in Robeson County are

treated fairly?

M: No, ma'am.

L: You don't? Why do you say that then?

M: Well, like these people--men who blew--blew up that old lady that was in

that truck.

L: Ur-hum.

M: Now I believe they Is treated unfairly.

L: You mean that--when they went to court?

M: Um-hum. (Affirmative)

L: Um-hum, uh, did you know those men?

M: No, ma'am. Uh-uh.

L: Uh, do you think they had to serve too long a sentence, or what?

M: Well, I believe they should be treated the same as she was--have the same

punishment.

L: Oh, you think they got off too light.

M: Um-hum. (Affirmative) I think if--like if someone come and cut your fin-

gers off, you go back and they can get Vi J ___ and just cut their

fingers off.


L: Oh, I see. What do you know about Old Main?


I









LUM 74A


M: Old Main?

L: Well, what is Old Main?

M: It used to be a--a little school building, and--until they put a college

there.

L: Urn-hum, uh, what else do you know about Old Main a) v3 ?

M: Well, I know that-the Tuscaroras said that they weren't want--wanting it

burnt down, and somebody came and burned it down. They said they was going

to kill somebody.

L: They did? Um, why do people around here don't want them to tear down Old

Mainback when they were going to tear it down? Do you know why?

M: Guess that it was great history) E A

L: Okay, history about who?

M: About the Old Main.

L: Okay, where is Old Main? What's the name of that school over there?

M: Pembroke, um, Pembroke, um, Pembroke University.

L: Okay, Pembroke State University. Um, do you think in--in school would you

like to learn about Indians?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: Would you like to learn about the history of the Indian people here in Robe-

son County--the Lumbees?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: Um, do you ever talk about being a Indian in school?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: U- most of the children in your room glad to be Indians?

M: Yes, ma'am.

L: Uh, do you, uh, do you ever talk about Black history in your room?

M: No.

L: You have any books in your room that tell you anything about Black history?
j __ ___________________










LUM 74A


M: No A\ VK .



L: This is Janie Maynor Locklear again. I think it's quite evident of the lack

of cultural studies and history within the local school systems here in

Robeson County. I think it's quite evident that children need to be taught

history and appreciation, and need an awareness of themselves. This is

Janie Maynor Locklear and I'm at the Odum Home in Pembroke and I'm talking

to, um, Danny-Lowry. Danny, how old are you?

D: Twelve.

L: Twelve years old, and what grade are you in?

D: Sixth.

L: You're in the sixth gradetand whose your teacher?

D: Etta Bea.

L: Who--pardon?

D: Etta Bea.

L: Miss Etta Bea what?

D: Jones.

L: Miss Etta Bea Jones. Uh, what did--how have you--where do you go to school?

D: Pembroke Elementary School.

L: And how long have you been going to school there?

D: Three year.

L: Three years, and where did you go to school beforey- .?

D: Michigan.

L: In Michigan. How many years did you go to school in Michigan?

D: I don't know.

L: Did you start the first grade in Michigan?

D: No.


L: Where did you go to school before that?









LUM 74A


D: Hoke County.

L: Hoke County, oh, and you don't know how long you stayed in Michigan? Were

you born in Hoke County?

D: Yep.

L: And where did you go to school in Hoke County?

D: West Hoke.

L: West Hoke?

D: South Hoke.

L: Did you ever go to Hawkeye?

D: Yep.

L: Was it Hawkeye when you went to school there?

D: Yep.

L: Were all the children there Indian children?

D: I don't know.

L: You don't know. Uh, are all the children in your room at Pembroke Indian

children?

D: NopA.

L: Are most of the children Indian children?

D: Yep.

L: Do you have any Black children?

D: Yep.

L: How many?

D: One.

L: Have any White children?

D: YeN.

L: How many?

SD: rour or five.


L: Four or five. Uh, what s being--are you a Indian?









LUM 74A


D: Yep.

L: What does being Indian mean to you?

D: I don't know.

L: Does it mean anything to you? Huh?

D: Nope.

L: Are you glad that you're Indian? Are you proud that you're Indian?

D: Yep.

L: What kind of Indian are you?

D: I don't know.

L: You don't know? Uh, if you were going on a long trip to New York and you

told people you were Indian, and they asked you what tribe, what would you

say?

D: Tuscaroras.

L: Huh?

D: Tuscaroras.

L: Uh, what can you tell me about the Indian people in Robeson County? Anything?

D: They's sorry.

L: Hum?

D: They's sorry.

L: Why do you feel that way?

D: I don't know.

L: Are they hard-working people? Hum?

D: Nope. They take the easy.-.

L: Are they lazy people?

D: Kind of lazy.

L: Kind of lazy. Are all the Indian people that way?

D: Nope.


L: Just some of them?









LUM 74A


D; Yep.

L: Most of them?

D: Yep.

L: Most of them are?

D: Yep.

L: Are Indian children lazy or smart?

D: Lazy.

L: Are some smart children?

D: Yep.

L: Do they study hard?

D: I don't know.

L: Huh?

D: I don't know.

L: Are Indian people supposed to be smart?

D: No.

L: Are they supposed to be lazy? -r-

D: I don't know.

L: Are they supposed to be dumb?

D: Kind of.

L: Who's supposed to be the smartest, the White children-or the Indian children?

D: I don't know. ~iA

L: Huh?c cr

D: I don't know, pa e

L: What do you know about the Tuscarora Indians? Huh? Well?

D: I don't know.

L: You ever study Indians in school?

D: No.

L: 'ro ever have?
I'









LUM 74A


D: No.

L: JWhil4eyou j going to school you've never talked about Indians in school?

D: Yes.

L: What did you talk about? Did you ever learn about Columbus?

D: Yep.

L: Did you talk about Indians when you learned about Columbus?

D: Yep.

L: What did you learn about him?

D: He explored America.

L: He did what?

D: Explored America.

L: He explored America, is that what you said?

D: Yep.

L: Uh, whaet-who did he find in America?

D: Indians.

L: What did you learn about the Indians when he came? Anything?

D: They's stupid.

L: Were they good people or bad people?

D: They good people.

L: They were good to him? Um, had he ever seen Indians before?

D: No..

L: What happened after Columbus came to the Indians and more White people

begin to come?

D: I don't know.

L: You know anything about Old Main? Hum? What is Old Main? Ever hear tell of

Old Main?

D: Yeah.


L: What is Old Main?









LUM 74A


D: It's a college--part of one. It was one.

L: It was what?

D: College--some college--part of a college.

L: What happened to Old Main?

D: Some person burnt it down.

L: It got burnt down. Uh, why did the Indian people not want them to tear it

down last year? Do you know?

D: Nope.

L: You didn't have any idea? Do you ever talk about Old Main in school?

D: No.

L: You ever talk about Henry Barry Lowry in school?

D: Nope.

L: You ever heard tell abett Henry Barry Lowry?

D: Yep.

L: Who was Henry Barry Lowry?

D: He was that guy, I don't know...

L: What did you learn about Henry Barry Lowry? Was he ;,Indian?

D: I don't know.

L: Would you like to learn about the Indian people in school? Huh?

D: Nope.

L: You don't have any interest in learning about the Indian people here long

years ago? You know why they got their name?

D: Nope.

L: Hum?

D: Nope.

L: You don't want to know?

D: Nope.


L: Why? HA?









LUM 74A


D: I just don't.

L: Do you want to be Indian?

D: I'm already one.

L: You don't have any choice? If you--if you had a choice would you still be a

Indian?

D: Yep.

L: You ever study Black history in your school?

D: Nope--I don't know.

L: Hum?

D: I don't know.

L: You ever study anything about Black people?

D: -Nope--I don't know.

L: Hum?

D: No.

L: You ever study anything that are Indian ?

D: No.

L: Hum?

D: No.

L: Do you have a music teacher?

D: No.

L: Huh? Pardon?

D: Yes.

L: Do you, um, have more than one teacher, or just one teacher?

D: Two.

L: Two teachers, and what's the other teacher's name?

D: Miss Johnson.

L: Miss who?

D: Johnson.









LUM 74A


L: Miss Johnson. What does she teach you?

D: Class.

L: What?

D: Classes.

L: Classes? What kind of classes?

D: Uh, um, history.

L: What do you learn about in history? Anything?

D: Nope.

L: Do you have a art teacher?

D: Nope.

END OF TAPE




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