Title: E. E. Callaway
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Title: E. E. Callaway
Series Title: E. E. Callaway
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INTERVIEWER: 7,6^ri 7/

C: I was born and reared at Weogufka, W E O G U F K A ,which means

in reek ) c0- County Alabama, on the twenty-third

day of February, 1889. I was born in a log farm,...on a log...in

a log house on a large farm. I grew up on that farm, the second of

nine children. I have done everything on a farm that anyone else

has ever done up until the time the tractor was born. I never op-

perated a tractor on a farm. We had a one-teacher log schoolhouse

about a mile and a half from where I was born. We had the Blue gg

Spelling BookReader, Arithmetic....and...a. small

Dictionary that we could look up the meaning of words, and the Bible.

Those were our books. But I absolutely wore out two or three copies

t eachz trying to learn something ut luckily my grandmother, my

Father's mother, who was a great scholar. Her name was Lucy Hood

before she married my grandfather. Her parents educated her in Europe.


When my grandfather died at the ageaia4, I was at the age of five,

she came to live with us. And she was my comforter, consoler, and

teacher. And when I was twelve years of age I had mastered all of

the subjects that are now taught in our elementary schools. In addi-

tion to thatshe inspired me to want to know both sides of every

issue. She was a Religise-but not a BuIkst. She believed in God and

the Bible. But she was also very much interested...in a4Y w 'o ba,'
BEdqit ov\ 5-1V- 0 Spec'C!!
Voyage of the Bete, Survival of the Fittest, and she

even added that the fit may survive. So I could almost quote 9a zrsn

great work in my early teens. She inspired me to want to meet

and get aquainted with all great men and women that it was possible

for me...who it was...whom it was possible for me to meet. And if

I couldn't meet them in person, then get acquainted with them from

the printed page. She bought me most of the books that were available
at that time, encyclopedias A othersiand I studied them. At the age

of sixteen I had a certificate to teach school ad=/ I was

employed as a teacher at Russell Schooljfouse in County, Alabama.

I had sixty-five students, and I was the only teacher.

I: Were these students in all different grades?

C: These students were from five years of age to twenty-two, and we didn't

have such things as grades, units, and credits. We stayed with it un-

til we mastered that subject. And almost right was always wrongY. I

taught school there for two years. I was paid one-hundred and twenty-

five dollars a month. I boarded with old man John l)wk4 and his wife.

He had been a member of the Confederate Congress and a great scholar.


His wife was a brilliant woman. They had a pretty home. I had a

beautiful room,and a feather bed to sleep in, and the best food

you ever sat down to, and it only cost nine dollars a month. I'd

walk down through the woods ab a few miles away from the school)

and I saw that the tracks of M _\'k and otters, and raccoons, and

opossums were as thick as pig tracks in the :Da I bought

me a couple dozen one-armed steel traps, and when the weather got
4Ckt e.,0
cold and the fur came out giso4 and *t I set those traps and I

hired a nigger boy to assist me. And every morning we'd get up

before day and work our traps and come back in with about all

the animals that we could carry on our shoulders. I taught him

how to skin the animals and stretch the skins over ~ty 1d-
CCmb (&7 'fov';_1W
We hung them up out in the to dry, and once a month we

packed those spears in large wood boxes and shipped them to the

Geastance Fur Company in St. Louis, Missouri. And I made more money

catching and shipping furs in four months during the cold weather

than I did in nine months teaching school.

I: So why did you decide to go to Michigan and go to aLw SLchool?

C: After teaching there two years then I went to the Alabama State

College in Jacksonville, Alabama and ah, obtained my primary,

high school education. The curriculum of the school at that time

was about what a good high school is A-a. Then I went back and

taught one more year. I went in the offices of Mullins and Smith

of ,Alabama and studied Law for three years. I was admitted

to the Bar. I went to Columbus Mississippi and opened ar Law Office


.....and went to practicing Law 't1r it was not long bef until

I was made council for the 't And when I took my summer

vacation I went to-Anaa-be Michigan,and studied there as a special

summer student. At that time William Howard Taf Charles Evans

<44 Walter Malo4nr, and other great lawyers of that caliber
a i4a .
were lecture p When World War I came on I had a wife and one baby.

I went to gamp \31 and tried to enlist in th officers training

cor but they turned me down on account of my lungs, I'd had 1 /eu/

in my lungs once or twice. I went back to St. Louis and tried to

get in the Department of Justiceand they turned me down for

the same reason. But when the draft came, the first name called

for the draft in~4Q4e County, Mississippiwas my name. I went

down to the draft board. Dr. Z "ho was the doctor for the

board d said I know Mr. Calloways condition. He's not physically up

to the requirements, and ah, there's no use in even having him

remove his cloth hen I started out, Ben Stevens who was Clerk of

the Circuit Court was Clerk of the Draft Board and he remarked we

need a lawyer. If Mr. Calloway will help us, he'll make a good one.

I replied that I'V serve and work in any capacity that I can. So I

devoted most of the next three years to the United States Army. I

was never in Milnitary Uniform, I was never in combat but I served

in the best position that I couldhA Shortly after that I made

up my mind to come to Florida. I sold my home, two farms that I had,

resigned the important clientships I had and moved to Lakel,

Floridag and I went right to aw down there. In six months I had


more waw business than two lawyers could look a* t7t r.

I: This was in 1921?

C: 1921, I was admitted to the Bar here in Florida in 1921. I

practiced Law at LakeF until I moved up into the Garden of Eden,

the Valley in 1947. I came to this great valley for one

reason only. I wanted to know whether en not man was created for

a purpose, whether he had a responsibility, or whether he evolved

from nothing and is not responsible to anything except to eat,

drink, and be merry. I do not regret having come here.

I: But most of then)of your political background is from a period of

time then when you were living in Laken?

C: Well, before I maved to Florida I was an active Republican, the

only one in County.

I: Why did you choose to be a Republican?

C: My uncle, my other's brother was ah, chairman of the Democratic

State Executive Committee of Alabama. His father, my grandfather,

was a Confederate Soldier enlisted the next after Alabama saeeeEdd-

and surrendered with Lee at 4-PrjP jpM a and he hated the yankee with

all the hatred that one man was capable of hating another one. All

my folks were Democrat(s, Republican-haters and Yankee/ waters. But

every time a man ran for Governor on the Democratic ticket or for

Congress, or some other public office, he always pictured his people

asteing poor, the down-Sioyu the forgotten man, in other words the

bums. So I told my father one day, I'm going to crawl out from among

these Democratic Bums and common people and I'm going into associate


with the Republicans ere I'll have good company. <(agh+) But I

also felt...that the American labor man could not compete with the

foreign labor unless the American Xabor was protected with a pro-

tective+~iA'<,E hat was a fundamental belief with me. Another

thing...the Democratx6 for the last seventy-five or a hundred years

have insisted that Government should do something for folks that

I believe they should do for themselves. I don't believe it is the

purpose of Government to feed and outtler and protect, and el-,4

and bosi the people from the cradle to the grave. I believe in

freedom. I don't believe a man can have an opportunity to a

Lceg unless he also has an opportunity to fail and I think it is just

as honorable to fail if he does his best to wsSt as it is to

sueed. I think a man has a right to be wrong if he does his best

to be right. He has a right to think wrong if he does his best to

think right. I've never wanted aey Government. I want to be

free, and I know that the history of man records the fact that nine-

tenths of all the things in which we we...in which we're enjoying

now in this country was born by free men. Slaves never produced

anything. Freemen, necessity is the real mother of progress and

invention. This energy crisis that we are now being plun ed into-

we're going to have a food crisis worse than this in the next year

or two, because of the wrong philosophy of government. But you

know, many marvelous things are going to come out of this. In the

first place these young folks are going back to walking to school.

The're going back to walking. The're going back to working. They


may not think so. There mad this morning because they say that

we don't want to have our driver's privil ges taken away from

them. Then get out boys and girls and go to...creating some gas

and oil...some fuel. Go...what are you making? What have you

made in the last few years in this country? Nothing. Go to school,

get branded. Some great benefits ace coming out of this crisis.

It's going to teach us something. Let me make this statement as

a fundamental principal of philosophy of politics and government

with me. It's not original with me. I heard...Dr. Hen ry CAb't

of Harvard say this a number of times. The only way that man can

advance his standard of life and provide for his security shis

loved ones and his county is by the production of more goods of

better quality and less costs. One of the greatest minds I've known

in my time was Brooker T. Washington of _-Rhse great educator.
I heard him say hundreds of times in the exact degree that we

Human labor in that degree do we make progress along the

highway of civilization. And that we people of the south had listen-

ed to him seventy-five years ago we'd be far advanced of what we are.

I heard him say in Moriomery one sunday afternoon to ten thousand

black folks and twenty-five hundred of us white, I will say to you

colored people you an not win your case by abusing....abusing the

jury, and I would say to youwhite friends you can not hold the

Negro down in the ditch of ignorance, poverty, and disease without

staying down there with him. Brooker T. Washington said that.'In

the exact degree that we ____\c t human labor, in that degree do


we make progress along the highway of civilization. I detest the

word retire...retire. I never have had a time enough to work.

Every moment is precious in my opinion. God only promises seventy.

You know the reason he's let me have eighty...ah, eighty-five,

because I use those extra hours, and days and years to try to im-

prove myself and improve my fellow man.

I: Well, I think you're...you're obviously working very hard. I think

that's pretty clear.

C: So, I went to the convention, Republican Convention, when Harv...

when was nominated,-aita=ais e. We had nine black

men and...and three white men on the delegation. We WCO* J4kti'

they instructed for General Wood.
I: Do you remember who..Awere the other members of the delegation,

their names, as many of them...?

C: Well, I...ah, I remember two or three of them. Ah, one of the white

fellows with me was named iLa- Robinson, and another one was

named DF L o Ah, the leader of the black group was a large,

dark, extremely dark, ah, negro minister from Mf%,r BAA, Miss-

issippif called Mixtn. We balloted...balloted there in the /onven-

tion for two or three days and ah, not anyone could ah, receive

a majority of the votes. Finally one night this large colored min-

ister came over to our headquarterss and he had a brand new thousand
dollar bill for each one of us delegates. er4 OJ r was theAspokes-

man for our white group and he asked this colored gentleman where

did you get that money? He saidover to Mr. HOdL ,Headquarters. HeU 50


IIJet got plenty of money over there and they acted like they wanted

us to have a little of it while we was up here. hrt.tr said,

twhat did you promise them for that money? Well, I didn't exactly

promise them anything, but he sai you know it's begi ng to look

like our man's not going to make the grade, and I could use one

of these nice thousand dollar bills and I think you boys could.

We might as well get in line and ah, vote for Mr. HardA he's

going to win anyway. 64ie said you take that money back/ and

give it back to them. If you don't when we get you back to Miss-

issippi we're going to put you in UjaeJ 'S1Ai Yes, I'll take

it back if you say, but I think you're making a mistake. But he

took it back. After he left I said to 3Pt the Hardening

crowd is buying and paying for enough delegates tonight to be

nominated tomorrow, and now watch ..-ch :-atch what will hap-

pen in the morning. So we met in along about ten or eleven o'clock

a~ after having the preliminaries as usual in those conventions
OllUe ib. AJ-eetf
/hey started to call the roll. Alabama. All oft f-hete Lhee from

Brrmingham arduse and said welve votes for Hardrl, I punched

',%rpjf and said it's done bought and paid for. It's over with.

So Hard won on the first ballot. I know how they played politics

in this country. Both Democraties and Republicans, both of them is

just as rotten as their ambition and their ignorance would per-
the reason
mit them to be, and that's A\ we are in this country today. Demo-

crat s are now critizing Nixon and his crowd. Democratiss will do


just as 'j~m'0 o things as Republicans. There's not any difference

in them. If George Wallace was physically able today he'd be the

next President of the United States and he wouldn't have to spend a

hundred thousand dollars to get it. The people are d-istussed& with

both parties in this country. All th~ ve done in Washington, Demo-

crates and Republicans for the last year have done what N ro

did when he fiddled while Rome burned. We talk about a shortage

of energy, a shortage of food. Our serious shortage in this country

is a shortage of brains, a shortage of character, and a shortage

of honesty. Those are our shortages. And we're not going to get

out of it. until we turn back to the fundamental principles of

our creation, to our responsibility as human beings. If I may in-

sert into this record this thought. I drove over to Tallahassee on

the friday before Christmas. I had a fine young man with me. We

visited the calls and the shopping centers, and drove around over

city and the town and saw a modern .t3i(o- in full operation. I

asked this young man if every 4Qiee officer in the county ad

se off on a ten day vacation/and every door of every kind that's

now locked was unlocked here and the keys wee thrown away) hat

condition do you think this city would be in in ten days? He said

it would be in absolute shambles. The banks would be emptied of

the moneyatw '4b 4 the stores of their goods, the homes and

offices and buildings of their most precious pocessions. The tent

cars and trucks would so clog the streets and _(_tk h_ you

couldn't drive around over the city. 'm4d be some many dead bodies


scattered throughout this city that the stin that would rise from

it would be worse than That's the picture G. fi-young

man...painted...two weeks ago yesterday of the capital of our state,

four colleges here, seventy-five churches, a number of high schools.

What's wrong with America? I asked the boy do you think this

condition would exist about the same in many cities throughout the

country? He saidi any of them would be worse, Atlanta would, Wash-

ington D.C., New York, Boston, Chicago, L s Angles, MD lif

it were not for locks and keys and police officers to stand guard

over us and protect us we'd be a heath country. We are morally,

and socially, and religiously, and intellectually heaths in this

country. I read the press and listen over the television and radio

and I meet folks. What are the high schools and colleges holding

up as a bribe to the young man and woman of the United States today!

They are offering them a bribe, call it what you may. What is that

Bribe? Get an education, get a degree, get branded in order to get

a job ou become socially prominent to be looked up to, that's the

bri e that education is offering the children of this country, des-

troying the people on earth. That's not the purpose of an opportunity,

of an education. But our educational leadership in this country

have been more interested in making it a commercial institution than

it is into.really training our boys and girls, training their mind ,

their hearts, and their souls. I hate to say this about education,

because God knows I believe in it as much as any man in the world;

but what is education


I: Well, hopefully it's a process of learning about living.

C: Yes, sir.

I: I'm not sure that....I...I'm not sure that you ah....that you're

not correct, that we have sort of separated the idea of learning

from living a little too far in that sense. Let me ask you very

...let's...let's talk...let's begin to talk very specifically about...

about Florida and the Republican Party in the state and I've got

in front of me the material that you sent to me, and...and I would

sort of like ie to explore some of the things.....

C: All right.

I: ....as best that you can. You made a statement to begin with, that

your first acquaintence with the Republican Party of Florida was in

1922, and at that time the party was strictly a Federal PDypDAE
Organization dominated and controlled by George W. Bear.

C: That's absolutely true.

I: Can you tell me about Mr. Bean.

C: Mr. Bean was a very AD\ OW man. He was a handsome vfl My

remembrance is that he came from Connecticut, Where he got his...

in entire to become a Re...ah.. .Republican leader in Florida I don't

know. Mr. Beam was here when I came here. But a Republican at that

time throughout Florida ,ur population then was very largely vad___

population, ah...ah, southern population. Sherman's march through

Georgia \j.A u, until the southern people really hated

the word Republican. And they associated Yankee-along with it.

Oh, I didn't feel that way. l-married a Yankee woman, a graduate of


Smith College. They make the finest wives in the world. There's

only one objection to a southern having a Yankee wife...wife, she

makes him get up and go to work. George Beam was.. andwhile

he was a political opportunist, I'` lik&af-i e ..after I '4re 4

f i- i h', kicked him out of the control of the RPpublican Party
of Florida.,,

I: How did you manage to do that?

C: I managed to do it this way. I knew that George was not trying

to build a Republican Party in Florida. I knew he wasait trying.

I knew he was...he was using the organization strictly as a bus- .
inehs for George Bea 1^ I4k @ Av^ o 60aI cr7^ iO0\^-
iness for George Bea$, -aSng, and those fel-

lows- At that time the north looked upon the Republican Party of

Florida as a non-4VA*i They looked upon it as a non-Ci

I believe in the very,,very importance of ah,...a% two party

system. I do now. I don't believe that freedom ive/ and the effi-

ciency of the government can exist without competition. George didn't

try to build a competitive party. There was a crack boy raised

down at ag L oO for some unrea....un...unknown reason to me, e -4 0

had some of the qualities of leadership about him, and he was a

Republican. He could of had anything the Democrat*es had to offer

x& &frfoui almost but he didn't want that. He wanted to see two

parties in Florida. He came and introduced himself to me yfis

name was Glen Skipper. and he said we can take this -o~~f4yal

organization away from George Bea? if we organize and go at it in

the right way. So....Glen Skipper was a cowboy. is people had alot


cattle. He lived in a saddi with a li 1 4--E And they had

a Cowboy's Association in Florida at that time. They were real men,

tough real men to be cowboys in Florida. He also affi ated with
the Klu Klux Klan. I never affiliated with the Klu Klux Klan. ..I

never believed in the Klu Klux Klan, But he didand he said'I'm

going out and organize the cowboys, I'm going to organize the iu

Klux Klan, and we're going to take this party away from George

Beam and his little. crowd.

I: Skipper said that?

C: Skipper. I financed him.

I: You financed him?

C: I financed him. He didn't ask...he didn't....

I: How much.. *.how much money?

C: Oh, I suppose I spent four or five thousand dollars while he was

going all over theistate organizing this thing. He lived a nmy

home there in Lake.. He was a wonderful organizer. And when Beam'

through the National Committee) called a Convention that D)xu i -

on May 1928, Skipper had it organized right down to the moment,

ye knew that George Beam's State ah,....Credential's Committee
&- ^
would throw him a one of our del nations out; we knew that e

went there prepared for that.

I: You and Skipper and Mr. O'N4ZI, was he a member of your group?

C: Of Orlando?

I: Yes, sir.

C: No, he was always above us, ah...financially and socially. He wouldn't

PAGE 15 eJ 4

get down and con...conden en r we-had ____was a grass

roots man. He was.....

I: He was on your side?

C: He was on our side and right with us watil the last moment.

I: And can you tell me who Mr. Sherman was, L. Y. Sherman.

C: Sherman.

I: What was his first name? Do you remember?
tOUL -
C: Sherman was from the south east coast, as I remember.

I: Do you remember his first name?

C: No, I don't. No, I don't.

I: O.K. Was he on your...in your side i hs L ..

C: After we...after we'd won he was on our..., we had a lot of them on

our side after...

I: (-aughb- side after you had won.

C: ...after we had won.

I: Right.

a: Yes.

I: Now on the other side of the fence, besides Mr. Bean, there was a

Mr. M or Gee--

C: This you need to ah,...ah, to look up. You see this State Committee

that George Beam hand picked, you can-- control that as much as a

man ever owned and controled a half ais dozen cows in the pen. But

some asp ration-of competition developed inside of his little club

between ksm a man .by the name ofa and Now they didn't go
into a primary to elect the State Committeehof either arty at that


time. BeafAin this instanceI think hands off and let the boys fight

it out among themselves. But that contest went up on an appeal to

the Supreme Court and you'll find that case in about somewhere

along in 1920,ah '21, or '22 Mtv I( vs. e It's in the

Supreme Court ah, records. Go in any good library and ah, Law

Library and you'll find it. But in that case the Supre' Court

refussed to take jurisdiction of this controversy inside of the

Republican Party.

I: And this was a controversy within only Mr. Bea 's.....

C: Yes, his....

I: ...party?

C: ...yes, his...his group in other words.

I: Had split between M11tyn and Gerro.

C: Yea, this other new group that we came into the picture later

was not \1 \\i.7iT tL.

I: I see. O.K.

C: The Supreme Court said we do not know any such organization in

Florida as the Republican Party. Well, TO had a number of

fine, fied, Republican, Yankee Politicians from the north who

had drifted down into Florida. They saw an opportunity to get

in here and have some fun. ER ILn down at Fort Lauderdale

was one of the leaders. Ah, Dr. Fred n was ah, a Christain

Minister from Stuart. He's a preacher but he had political asp r-

ations too. And a lawyer had drifted down here from New York

State by the name of G-l-eaanee i and he located down in Sebring;


a wonderful nice fellow. So they all joined in with us and we

organized this new wing of the party down here because the courts A

said there wasn't any party in Florida, any Republican Party.

Well, that gave us something to work for. So tLhefirst Beetttg
1 v' ot 0
O_aQ this new crowd met in Orlando and they organized) the Rnrd

tf constitution andetrine, nominated candidates for various

public offices. They nominated me for the Supreme Court. Bea 's

crowd also nominated candidates for the same offices. And the

Democrats over in Tallahassee were gentlemen enough to put

both on the tickets...on the...on the ticket...both slates.

I: Um, hum.

C: A week before the election I .-a4 a pVblic statement that I

was not a candidate for any office and wouldn't accept it if

the ..if the people should elect me, which I knew they wouldn't.

I: Why did you do that?

C: Well, at the time they nominated meI) had left the Orlando meet-

ing and gone home. They didn't consult me before they nominated -

me. I didn't want any public office and I issued that statement

But then there were Democrat4 Candidates seeking the same office.

I: And they were bound to win.

C: Thpy won of course, ut I pulled ah, many more votes than Be A's

candidate for the same position on the Supreme Court, and me

stating through the D,46664 teet I don't want you to vote for

me. I didn't want them to vote for me.

I: Do you remember the name of his candidate who ran...you ran against,


his Republican Candidate?

C: I believe it was Bill 4iU I believe. I believe he was the

one. Well, if...when that election was over if the:leaders the

leaders of our had followed up, Washington would have recognized

this group. But they didn't follow up. They just died there, you


I: Why did that happen?
to get
C: I don't know& ,ut they didn't make any effortshto be recognized

in Washington. If they had Beap would have been out.

I: .I6D,. didn't make any effort, or ah, .....

C: They made....they didn't make...

I: ...Skipper.

C: ....they didn't make Skipper, or ah, 'i-ta, even 9O1f6 he was

our...the chairman of our new group, a brilliant mind and a loyal

man,|. vI> He didn't know to fal--through and didn't and he

was going to Washington every once in a while.

I: This reminds me of something I meant to ask youabo~ t. You must

of been a good bit younger than some of these other people.

C: I was. I was. I was in my early thirties.

I: And most of these men were older than that.
bv lVs 1 -ova. ..hYlec Cyou a
C: They "----.-. olde-Yes, you take Dr. __-_ar ee

Pts, ah, even Glen Skipper was older than me. Bear was much older

than I.

I: In this period of time before the 1928 Convention in Daytona Beach
this, I guess,
that you attended, while all of A/ shifting around for position


within the party was going on. What about ah, the Black Republicans

who were left over, and who was...who were ta h-9,_ and

what did they have, any influence with your group or Bea4's group?

C: Well,....if I hadn't destroyed my literature when I moved my office

in over here I could have given you this room full of stuff

and you could have had time to go through. Ah,....the Northern
y e-2-Yfyt c Republicans....had begun to quietly try to eioeate itself from

to'close association with the negro in the south. The Northern

Republican began to feel they could never attract the white man
of the South into active participation j/ the Republican Party

as long as this black man was out in front. And, I think the black

man sensed that, I think he felt that that he was being gradually

booted out. I think he felt that. Instead of hir coming and fight-

ing back at that time, they didn't fight back. They were not ag-

gressive. They had an attitude of well, it is and we might as well

accept it and be fe~ ful about it.

I: Did this include people like Joseph Lee? Do you remember Joseph


C: Joseph who?

I: Lee.

C: Down in Tampa?

I: No, he was over from Jacksonville. He was ......

C: Oh, well, they had Sam McGill, who was a wonderful lawyer over there,

and Louis benrmsd was a graduate of Harvard a-lawye r-They had some
wonderful colored people in Florida at that time.
wonderful colored people in Florida at that time.


I: Um, Hum. W~t they just sort of accepted the political situation.

C: They sort of accepted the trend of things and they did it gracefully

and ah, they were not active any more. Once in a while a few of

them would come to the State Conventions or to the State Committee

Meetings, ah, but not many.

I: Um, hum. There was..Lthere wasn't any sentiment in the Republican

Party either in your Vd ov%, or in Mr. Beam's j-tCo There

wasn't any feeling that ah, about trying to hang on to this....to

these blacks.

C: Oh,...no, no there was not anything.' he truth of the matter, let's

get down to brasi tacts. owJ I'm a southerner. My folks came here

in 1642. My people were among the large slave owners of the South.

Freed thei-'ie aga voluntarily in 1856. But there never has been

even a impluse of racia] prejudice in my whole nature, that laa-

nate, from the fact that I believe that God created us all. I believe

that God is only intelligent s unlimited, energy unlimited, life

unlimited,and ah, love unlimited, and ah, working as a combination
together that is God. And I believe whatever of these great qual-

ities or attributes anyone manifest is God, a part of God. And I

never did feel that the God that's in me could say to the God's.

that's in a yellow man or a black man or somebody else that I'm

superior to you. But don't think that the majority of the people

of the South.....

I: Felt like you did?

C: ...felt like I did, and they don't feel that way now. The south has


accepted mixture with the black man because of two things only,

Tat's all. And anybody tell you otherwise. is not admitting the

truth. The North has done everything it could do/and it'sAbil-

lions of dollars to __?t the South into accepting this thing.

W-ve get the money "orha, The schools are getting money. I've

had the superintendents here in this county and all around over

Florida tell me well, if we don't accept this theJll cut the

money off." Others tell me there going to ram it down our throats

anyway, we might as well accept it. Now there's many...many

Southern people today who are sincerely now feeling that inte-

gration is eigh& It's a good thing. It's going to take a long

timeo bring it into reality so that we'll not be destructive or

detrimental to us. But it will finally come about.

I: Right.

C: That's the way...that's the way aot of us feel, but over-

whelming majority of the white people of the south are opposed to

integration today regardless of what they say, but they accept it

either for money or because they think .le going to ram it down

their throats anyway.

I: Do you suppose that...that in the...in the...before the 1928 period

that...that those Republicans ah, in trying to make an all white

party, with...did they think that this was going to help it in

...in terms of the two party state in this...making Florida VvD\t,..

C: Why certainlyjhey knew or thought they knew that the Southern Demo-
crat a iat with the Republican
crates 4& ttrhn the world affiliate with the Republican
r Jc eh



I: As long as there was a black man.

C: Right. They thought they could a lrad f/ And they wouldn't

have done it in 1928, but for the fact they hated Catholics...

I: Right. I want to get to that, but I want to...before we get to

...before we get to that 1928 campaign per se. When did you first

run into W.J. ii ? When did you first meet him?

C: Ar4Lt-. I didn't know W.J. HS but he developed a few small
4ralUV O6e PW(k
- jaC down in Pee County. You see, I practiced paw in

Laken, thirty years.

I: Right.

C: Over on the east side he developed...developed a few ~Y~ and

@P4A, them financially. He went to fUL0 and experimented

with the growing of bananas down there for several years, and he

failed that. He came back to this country and into my office in

Laken upstairs and introduced himself. W44 also was ah...ah,

a wonderful fellow, person. He was not an educated man, but he

was a gentleman Pe was handsome, ,e had a marvelous personality,

and ah, he was. just a one hundred percent good candidate for

office. He is registered as a Democrati So he said to me I've

got to do something. What am I going to do? I've got to make a

living. He said ah, my banana experiment down there p44f out

and here I am broke.Would you like to ihe said like to go

to developing more range or citrus groves. Well, Duncan and

HammoAup at \ au q. was a firm of lawyers up there, and good


ones, t~e. And they had acquired eighty-seven thousand acreas of

those cut over lands,hills, and /e up in there around ah,
an ( av a n l- e 1 t ,b
Houms-t4 and ___ and ____ and through there, hey had gotten these

lands for a....from tax j i taxes about seven or

eight cents an acre, and they owned them. And I was in their of-

fice one day, and Mr. Duncan said to me, Calloway, you ought to

try meddling in different things. We've got this eighty-seven

thousand acres of land, we don't know what to do with it. If

you find somebody that will buy it and take it off of our hands

why we'll pay you a nice fee for it. That's alright I know the

man. When...when I told him this, I said el got eighty-

seven thousand acres. They don't know what to do with it. You

can buy it on any kind of terms in the world that you want to.

Let's go up there and see them. -fMk-e of paved road

from Laken to ah, to (At2vet at that time. So we drove up there

anand Duncan and entered into a discussion about

this land. Well, they finally ea~eQr4 made him a proposition

that they would sell him that eighty-seven thousand acreTs

of land for five dollars an acre, without a dollar down ,4d

then they would release it from their lein or mortgage in blocks

of a section each for the payment of five dollars an acre a and

that contract was all fixed up and signed and had that

eighty-seven thousand acreas of land tied at five dollars an acre.

He came back to my office in a week or ten daysand finally I

drafted for him I think it was two or three corporate charters.


One was a corporate phter to take from him an assignment of his
I ah, ... in
contract with i and Hamilton, i thatNcontract inAhis cor-

poration obe~ of course. The next one was ...ek,

construction Contract, a developing contractt where by this cor-

poration would clear the land and plant out the trees and work

them and fertilize them and...protect them for a period of ten

years. The next one was a Sales organization to go out all over

the country and sell these undeveloped lands in blocks of ten

acre s or twenty acres or forty acres to anybody that would

buy one. And they had a beautiful picture that they were going

to clear the land and plant the citrus trees, orange and grape-

fruit and tangerines nd they were going to work it and take

care of them for ten years and they...if they bore fruit and

they made any money that they would send them the money. And

Sot of them were interested in the north of how........


.......qualified to manage and direct those separate active .

And boy he began to sell ten and twenty acre's of his land all

over the north and he put his ah, men to work clearing the land
and tractors push them over and developed his own A for so
as to have A\ stock. And....ah, they did a landlord business

there. Well, when '28 came D to0Vj JAndI had gotten to be very

close friends. I liked him. He hadn't been able to pay me much


money yet, but I saw that ah, orange groves were growing and there

would.be some fruit for me along the line somewhere So I persuaded

him to accept the nomination for Governor. Well, he said I'm regis-

tered as a Democratic and I don't know anything in the world about

politics. I said.You don't have to know just use the same kind of

good sense that you use in your orange groves business. Well, he

W and he waited until the day before the convention in

Daytona to go and change from Democratic to Republican. fagt

And I had to go down there and.......I took him down to _a__ to

have him change his registration and.....the registrar was O.T'tf~L~4

about that. They...they couldn't do it right then and, I got him off
/ I sfad- got
and I said now Mister it's A to be done. I've got to have this man
S\\ fellow
to run for Yovernor. I didn't have to bribe that A I talked him

out of it, so he went through with, fol4~2a Yf- jeL tteA[.

I: Then you both went from there immediately over to Daytona Beach.

C: Went on over to Daytona Beach. Now there I liked to have had a real


I: That's what I understand and I would like you if you could to dis-

cribe as much as you can remember that went on about that.... that

#IU A /,54A-.
C: Well, a4Tighkt. After we had gotten through with our Convention and
adopted the platform,Aelected delegates to the National Convention,

and got everything, the question came up of...of nominating a man
Well, Zm w. /
for yovernor.Athere was a fellow in Orlando by the name Bill W3STS

And I liked Bill Ware -We were great friends, but Bill had run


two or three times didn't get to first Wln- His personality

was not such that he could win' ,is business was not such 4nd I

knew he'd never have any appeal to the fao>fev~ ry-,(Arwt 4vUC A4O1-
ok a _^ around ,
ai Yest Florida. Those fellows had been quietly campaigningramong

themselves there.

I: Was he a member of George Beam's group?

C: He was until Bear ah.....had lost. He...he was smart enough to know

that Bea wasthre, too much power against him. He didn't b

the conventionn with Bea and go back to the William Hotel, he stay-

ed with us. Whether or not that was a real scheme on the part of
h tK
Beap, I don't think Beap had that much sense.

I: What happened? What...what exactly did Mr. Beam do in his group?

You said they....they left....that they......

C: They left the regular convention when they couldn't get in and

went on back to the...the Williams Hotel, held a convention, a

Convention, and elected delegates to the Aational conventionn the

same as we did.

I: O.K.

C: If you'd go into the newspaper there at Daytona Beach. I think it

was the Jg)e5 Ct"- By the afternoon that that/onvention

was held)on the front page they got the whole story. It was in

May 1928. I don't remember the date. Anyway I got up and nominated

Bill HbLoe.for governor At that time of course, I had that /on-

vention under...absolutely under my control. They knew I was

fighting for principle and that I had no selfish motive or anything,


_and I was young and strong and powerful and a well dressed man,

a hundred and seventy-five dollar suit of clothes, a ten thou-

sand dollar diamond here. And I...I...I was some kind of a magnet

that would draw' W 4-K 4 oD > v [A) G M I nominated Bill Ho WO .
any --
I didn't think it had\opposition. Somebody got up there and nomin-

ated Bill 4l~j4. WJjJOg1J

I: Do you remember who?

C: I don't remember. But by GodI say then that I had to get back.
4lA~44f-e AA -e 62 p J)
After this man nominated him, I rose and asked f f 'if

I might extend my remarks a few minutes more and he granted me the

right. And then is when I went down the line to sell that /onven-
tion. I said ladies and gentlemen, one of our main sources of live-

lihood in the tate of Florida is Agriculture and Hor culturee:

I said here is the outstanding 0o igulturist and one of the great

agriculturalist of our state, with a wonderful record, a wonder-

ful background. There's not another man in Florida that has the
the development Aowt \a,
qualifications to leadAour agriculturall Idustry t46t -wQLtL.

And I said he moment we nominate him, we've got a hundred thous-

and Democratic votes because he's a farmer. That vote was close,but

we nominated him. And my statement was right. He came dam near

beating DOA &A(fo and Do- was...was...was a popular fellow

down here.

I: OK. Now let's talk about the campaign, because H9 race of course,

was tied to the Hoover--Smith issue in the state. What ah,....what

happened in 1928? What was the campaign like and so on?


C: Now in 19...in 1928, of course, Glen Skipper had been elected our
YJwil dJ"6ervE ~X k-t
National Committee and he 4aser-ed4- But the fact had been closely

allied and tied in with the Ku Klux Klan W4was a terrible

stumbling block for him,-4.e withAaministration after Hoover

was inaugurated because they didn't want the embarrassment of.-.

loJ0( courted the Klan all over the south and I know what I'm

talking about. But after he got elected and was inaugurated it

was...in other words he was afraid that he'd be criticized too

much I suppose by adding Klan influences in the north. Glen was

National Committeev^'a, was State Chairman. We met in

the city auditorium and organized our campaign, Republicans.

I: This was still in Daytona?

C: No, Lake.

I: Lakex*.

C: We couldn't get any money out of Washington. The Republicans didn't

think we had a China man's chance to win.

I: This was true in every campaign, by the way, wasn't it?

C: Yes.

I: That th s-you never could get money from Washington.

C: They wouldn't give you anyth ngi --.1 w hrow it away.ell, we

had to admit it was true, so we didn't get any money out of Washing-

ton. But I had tremendous 1eng practice and I had alot df income,

and ah, I had plenty of time. I had three other lawyers with me,

a _j ust for two or three months. I said you boys run the

office. I go you need WAL p 5 5DD Oyv i I mean I went out over


the state. And being a southernerr and a cracker the d come out to

hear me. And I'd talk principles to them, and I'd always wind up

by saying'we've got the best candidate for governorr that we've

ever had in the state of Florida, and I believe you good Democrat s

know it. Here's a farmer, one who can talk your language. He knows

what a L ; A string. He knows fertilizer. Now you never

have voted for a man to represent you in the governor's office, why

not do it? But we didn't have to stress too much at the

nationall Xampaign. Hoover was a great cj t thel\ so

recognized. His ah, humanitary work in feeding the starving in

Europe a& ,r religious in the country. They

looked upon him as a great humanitarian. They knew he was a great

k e-evr and they many of our problems in Florida were _tAyl

-DjO2k(i If Smith had been a Protestant, Hoover wouldn't of had

a China man's chance to carry this state. But Hoover was aware....

Smith was aware that he believed in getting rid of pv)1 >-

and he was a Catholic and a good one. And I respected him. I love

any man's religion if he's honest. I don't care whether he worships

a toad or what.
I: Well, then when you campaigned, at least,Awent around the state

in your campaigning you...when you made your speeches in behalf of

AkoDe0- and in behalf of Hoover as you did, you did not attack...

C: No, I never...I'll tell you about that.....

I: Sance, Catholicism.

C; No, never in the world. So.I conducted what I believed at the time


and still know "s a high class campaign.

I: Were you running for any office in '2?.

C: No, I'm not running for anything. But ah,....the Democrat wh

couldn't swallow the word Republican. There were a lot of them.

They organized a separate and independent campaign down here in

Florida called the Hoovereylg;j had their own offices.in.ai-mst

of the cities, their own manager's office, the Hooveret2 a They

wouldn't affiliate with us Republicans. Now they got a little


I: From where?

C: I'll always believe they got it from the church. There were not any

Catholics affiliated with it, but I think they got several thou-

sand dollars from the Baptist, the Methodist, the __6____ the

Presbyterian Churches who were such dttr~- b prohibitionists

and anti-Catholic too, they put up some money. And that outfit

sent an old Baptist Minister down here, Dr. John __ from

New York State and he was a MoArf_ r sure _, So he went over

the state and he just pulled the bridle off and the curtain back

and attacked 4Ha- Smith for being a Catholic and a J')4 I

wouldn't sit on the same platform with him. When he came to

Lakef my home town there I had an excuse to get out of town. I

didn't want to be see on the platform with him, I thought it

would be...well, it would be...it would have been contrary to my

principles first, and next I thought it would hurt 4_t i_ 0 K-.

But he went all over Florida and he really branded Smith. Without


that influence.I doubt Hoover would have carried the state.

I: Do you think it was Smith's Catholicism more than it was his

being ah, anti-prohibitionist?

C: Well, I'd say they were fifty-fifty at that time. \i v v\g

have changed remarkably down here io 0i-S, but they hated

Catholics and they hated __)___ ._ So finally and when I went

over the state I made a Republican speech.

I: A pro- oce or a pro-Hoover speech.

C: Yes, absolutely. Now along the latter part of the campaign about

a week before the electionI was billed to speak in Biscayne Park

in Miami. Well, they had thrown rotten eggs at John w ___ and

his crowd had thrown rotten eggs at the Democratds. And they just
I/ A
been throwing rotten eggs, I mean really rotten eggs.

I: AQu--ean eggs.

C: Yea, breaking up the meeting and cussing each other down and when

it was announced that I was going down there to make a Republican

speech, nd if you're interested to follow through and get the facts

go into the Miami Herald about a week or ten days before the election

in '28, and on the front page you'll get the story.

I: I will do that.

C: So it was announced that I would be there. And I went down there.

They were all out there, and I'm sure both sides and all sides had

plenty of eggs in their pockets, and When

I was introduced I said ladies and gentlemen I want to say to you

folks in the beginning that I didn't come down here to engage in


a campaign of \f and abuse. I don't think there's, anything

constructive for anybody in such types of campaigns. I want to

say in front of you that for Governor Alfred E. Smith of New York,

and I know the gentleman well, I have the greatest respect and
k yo ioau 'a
admiration, f-or-4th I mean yl^t so L6[ I said I'm an ordained

Baptist Minister. I'm a Mason and a SLrwge . But I hope that I

will never forget the fundamental principles of true religion

and genuine sportsmanshipto ever criticize another man because

of his religious faith or lack of itor because of his personal/

social habits or beliefs& and they went wild again. I said I

came here to discuss with you people of Miami, the great prin-

ciples of the Republican Party as I understand them, and of for

which, and in defense of which, and in support of which, I've

donated my political life up til this time I can't quote what

the Miami Herald said all the way, but if you'll get that page,

that morning it came out after I made that speech.

I: I'll be sure and do that.

C: You'll enjoy reading it.

I: I'm sure I will.

C: Now, after Hoover carried the state in the election, he came d-

down to Florida. HrC 1aj was with him, his main advisor.

J. Q. Tilson, a Congressman from Massachuset, who was chairman

of the ways and means committee. And one other man whose name I

don't remember. They were bvlC~-4 in a big hotel right on Miami

Beach, They had had that terrible storm in October just before


that bf'drowned and killed all those people around Moore Haven

and [f 1 South-Gate-, and all around ah,...ah, never had been

anyj {y 4 Iv p until that time. I got in my car and I drove

down to Miamigand I sat at the dinner table that night,9 fv "U

dn I said Mr. resident I will never ask you for a personal favor

while you are President; I'm not interested in a public office,

But there's one request I want to make. I said when this terrible

storm came up through here back in October and then turned South,

South-est and blew across Lake Okeechobee down-lnt -te-

,I was the resident of Exchange Club in Lakep when the SOS call

was sent out for help, I daot rubber boots and gloves with about

thirty of my fellow exchange br ther and we went down there.

And for two days and nights we waited through the muck and the

4t1%0r d and pulled women out of the dirt and mud with a baby

in her arms, and old folks in such state and horror you can aeexr-
i _n_' // f tin
6-oteHW I said all around that lake is one of the finest /inter

garden spots on the North American continent. Every citizen of

the United States needs A production of that garden, I want to

know if you'll get in my car with me tomorrow, you and Congress-
man Tilson Mvt and ride around that lake with me and.seeA

situation, and he said he'll do it. Well, the next morning/early,

Hoover sat by me in the car. We came on up to Lake and

tten-we crossed over the canal point, came around the Congress
A and we stopped once in a while and walked out on that

flat sand bar a and in a little hil4-we walked out bhoe-

again. We stopped in Okeechobee and got a sandwich. And the...


when the crowd found out he was...had aCo we got out 6O
NrW Ci Wg oiut-
'e-_a---aa and came on around Moore Haven,and that's when

the d -. ae started. And I guess twenty-five times around

thewe'd stop and e'd walk out on that sand bar, and then we

came back into Miami Beach. And at the dinner table that night
he turned to Congressman Tilso arid said) Congressman,I want you

to have a bill ready when Congress convenes. I'm going to lev e

thatk|e A Lh and that's the way the levy around the Okeechobee /a re .

s When they had a celebration down there three or

four years ago, Spepeer _D(ilc the Democratic Congressman,

and the big shots that wanted to get their pictures in the paper,

they were all there on that levy, of course Hoover wasn't there.

They were so___and so Id o_) t, hey didn't invite me to

come. Glen Skipper was, of course, there but he didn't have

any real active part in it. They didn't invite me to come, and
"o t- 4-eLS nesr ,
my name wasn4-e- t. lte but that didn't bother me. No man,

professor, or doctor in this life can ever be extremely useful

and extremely efficient until he can develop his own mind and

soul to where he is indifferent to praise or blame. I'm there.

Te have the levy and drown any more people.
I: ahat is...that is the important thingkThat's an interesting story.

C: And look at the million4and millions of dollars worth of fresh

fruits and vegetables that's going out of there to feed the

world every day.

I: That's interesting. That's a very interesting story. I thank you


for telling me that.

C: Oh, that's.

I: Let's move on to 1932 to that period of time that 7 with

your race for Governor in 1936. The whole issue of the 'on-

vention vs the primary.

C: Well, I want to give you one little thought. After Hoover was

well seated in the ghite house some of these very prominent

Republicans had come down here from the uorth. They had influre

ence back home. They had it with the Republican Party in the

North. They made President Hoover believe that Glen Skipper

was going to try to do the same thing that George Beaj had done,

use the office of Xational a- -a-anmiR, as a p~2 i busi-

ness to make money. I don't think Glen ever had that idea, but

they made...and Walter BrownI who was Hoover's man T &l who

did more to defeat Hoover for reelection than any other hun-

dred men in America. ie persuaded Hoover to let him create a

I4c-t committee down here, ad--. andrrHoover listened

to him. He didn't appoint the committee, but he 4eft Walter Brown
gppv'd-Itlteu e-vOccq CtIkTv~nm4IU
do it. Walter Brown was hisl and his He never pick-

ed a southerner .

I: Who was the committee he /icked?

C: Well, ah,....Edi j was on it, he's the ; Judge Ford

of Bradeton was on the committee. I think ah,...ah,I don't know,

this is a guess it's been,lI believe that Joe L4t who later

became a Federal Judge on his own Bill High affili-

ated with U&-. The- 1MbtV affiliated with us. It was a


committee of about ten. They met in Orlando to organize. In

the meantime A9bd had resigned as State Chairman and they

had elected me. started to refuse the nomination for State

Chairman. I wanted Ki to stay up there. I thought he was
b)\t ofW1
best qualified_ and better qualified than I eam He had aot of

time, and

I: Do you remember what....what year you were elected State Chair-


C: 19...192-...2_....the latter part of '29.

I: Right after the election of '2S.

C: Yea. Anyway they sent for me to come to Orlando nd meet with

them. And I went up there....and I said gentlemen,I came here

to go along with you, I I respect everyone of you

personally. I don't....I don't doubt your sincerity.

I: You had been friends with 6RUt and...and Kbf .

C: Oh...oh, we're still friends. Well, 1A~ after this as far as
that is concerned. Ah,...well, I said here is an organization
/ 5-
that was actually built, and you men know it, by the crackers

here in Florida,j6len P the cowboys, the Klu Klux&VS,

If you ever have a Republican Party in FloridA, 4--_-.

e =wy he a You can't ignore them and you

certainly can't rapelliae. the efforts that they put forth.

They must have senseathat.

I: Can I interrupt and ask you one question?

C: Yes.


I: You said the word cowboys. Was that a term that other people

used or are you just using it now?

C: Well, it was a Ano_0 4,r. The cowboy was an organization.

I: Fine.

C: You know what the Texas Cowboy is?

I: No, I'd never heard of it.

C: Well,...well, he's the boy that lived in the saddle with the

/r f and...and herded and drove over....

I: OK, OK.

C: ...and guarded theG the cows, you see. Well they had a big

cattle industry in Florida about that time.

I: A You really...you really are talking about cowboys...

C: Cowboys.

I: .. p y OK, excuse me then I just didn't know what you were

talking about.

C: So I.......I said I...I came-ever-h re for several months

and worked with these men in the...in the organization of ah...

of ah, fotCe that5won, brought victory here. I can't turn right

around and...and i a I 'm not going to. So ah, if you

men feel that it's the thing to dop but the important positions

that came up...that were available, the important things this

committee recommended to Hoover_

So then the CW(0 that had worked 1. led by Glen Skipper

saw that they had been completely OLL6 e as far as any influence

was concerned, ad. that organization just .d So in 1930


...ah, '32, ah....when Hoover ran for reelection we didn't

have any organization at all down here. It had A-L^ a.

This committee, some of it had died off, old men that didn't

know anybody in the state and didn't have any influence anyway.

Hoover didn't have any party down here in '32 Well,I...1 saw

the time had come for me to quite wasting thousands of dollars.

I took twenty-five one-thousand dollar _\_A_ bills out of my

bank deposit in fall of 1928 and put every dime of that money

in that campaign for Hoover. I never got a dime of it back.

I didn't do it for &j 2. I did it for principle. Well, I

said torl)\ -)ftMr I said boys I was wasting a ot of time and

money. It's time for me to go to practicing aw, and I resigned.

I didn't try to name a successor. I didn't care who they want-

ed. I reached the conclusion after Hoover was defeated in'32

and I told them he's going to be, I reached the conclusion that

tha Republican Party had been put in cold storage and it would

remain there for a long, long time. It remained there for twenty

years. Well, I went about other things. In '29 crash, the

national Xconomic crash of '29 I lost three hundred and sixty-
/ I )
nine thousand dollars in banks in one day. The properties that

I had that worth a fortune almost seized to have any value, and

I had to work to do right now what I'm enjoying. I knew the time

would come if I lived long enough anrt I wouldn't be able to do

much and_ 0 I tbthat's-why-I didn't take any oef_ _

Now Hoover did call me one time while he was resident and said


[I[ want you to come to Washington. I want to talk to you about i>P/' P 5
qou to
iarr-P itmeatja very important position. I said what is it,
He said
Mr. President?f want to appoint you as Attorney for the United

States oA I~di I said I can't afford to accept any public

office. I owE too much money, and I'm making too much

money. It's just like I walked into John ah,...into John f v

office one morning in Washington when _I_ _was uaCed-. I

walked in there and ah,...went in there to recommend a man
4 ^jy- ^ if ii
for United States District Judge ohn aid I'm going to

send your name to the Senate today for confirmation as a United

States Judge An the Southern District of Florida. I said just

wait a minute Mr. Attorney General I don't want that job\ bo

you mean to tell me you'd turn down that job I said I have to

do it. I said I owe ah, almost a quarter of a million dollars

and I'm making almost that much money a year. If you put the robe

r-opeen me and put me on the bench I'll go bankrupts I'll be
sued and disgraced. I'm not going to take that job. I said I'm

too =n anyway. I said It like to make a fool of my self

and get up on the t 4th-. I can't do that. Ah, he

said .t who are you going to recommend. I saidlJudge Louis

_7V__, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of FLorida Well,

he saic he's a Democratt. Well, I said./hat difference does it

make? He's a judge. I don't know any man's politics or religion,

and I don't think Louis r ure won't have to apologize

for him and neither will the President and neither will I. So


that day Louis __ name went to the Senate, and he was confirm-

ed. You know I had aaot of interest inc~L gOctu 44~1' And

if ever a judge made it miserable for a lawyer not in an unkind,

unethical, dirty way but in the nicest kind of a way, he made

it miserable for me, And one day he and I were U I said,

IJudge I try to be ethical, and I try to be clean in your court

room, but you're rougher on me and harder on me than anybody

that comes in the court. He sai You know whydon't you. I

said no. He said everybody in Florida knows you're respon-

sible for me being appointed. And I couldn't afford to let

him say that fi \ F; n l l,

I: Sure.

C: Anyway...now...after that...

I: You resigned.

C: ...the party went ~igl It stayed that way. It took men of

conviction to remain Republican. It took men who were not in-

terested in $rmiL~

I: In 19, after 1932, after you resigned a man by the name of McNulty

became party chairman.

C: Charlie over from...from Melbourne.

I: Atright. John F. Harris became National Committee man along with

J. Leonard e

C: Do you know how John Harris got that job?

I: No, I don't.

C: Well, let me tell you something. Old John and I were the closest


kind of personal friends. I had a ot of business with the John

F. Harris Company New York. He lived at Palm
Beach, a Y- e v ae
Beach, a marveous man J Harbert Hoover's handshake.
So I was ,a= -ard my wife and my son were OkMa-* .
t, ah....
We were played! and I gotaa long telegram from John F. Harris
at GlenAdale, California for me to wire him back just how
soon I could meet him inASan Juan HotI in Orlando. It would
,5, A L(Sr- teQAf fL-A--
take three or four days to drive anyway e-th-my-iwFe iad I got

there -Ah, John F. Harris met me. We went up to his room and I

said 1yr. Harris what did you send for me forMell, he said ah,

/I've made up my mind that I want to be Republican National Com-

mitteeqman for Florida,and I've been told if I can get you to

support me I can be elected.' I sai 'I am 41iLU aul t

Well,' he said I've been told that. And I want to be Republican

National Committee. I just want the honor and glory of meeting

with the other members in Washington and putting my feet under
& \4 \ ^. 4 L*-k yu^-WLQ^-
the table sagni~thlamemene' from Florida'YI said Mr. Harris

I've got two or three questions to ask you before I commit my-

self. Alright what's that? I said/I know that your company,

your firm is the largest finance of Rail-oad Bonds and Rail-

Road Securities of any other financial Tistitution in the
United States. Well he saidlI think that's right. And I know

t$Jt as a rule....as a rule Rail-oads are very bitter toward

waterway development, transportation by water. They are...their...

their antagonizing ah, transportation agencies. Now yea=sa great

6a 11 -%


influen if you should become National Committee are

you going to do what you can to block and hinder the development

of the waterways of Florida, our ports and harbors and rivers

ah...in order to protect your RailRoad Securities and ,Bonds?

-- ~ Jats vital to thes4 people in Florida ~a that

we develop our waterways, our harbors, our ports. Ng he said,

you'reright,my firm has financed billions of dollars worth of
Rail Road Securities, but he said if I'm elected to National

Committee .to the Republican Party of Florida, I will do as

National Committee-man everything I can to help develop&--Q
Florida, and that will include it's waterways, I will not use

my financial or personal interest to try to hinder or block

it. I said right Mr. HarrisI have enough respect for your
)A )iDLCO 4-3
integrity and your offer ad believe that you mean what you

say when you V Ti0 I. said can I use your phone five or

six times. I called up about sixteen O i in the state

at that time.

I: Can you remember who you called?

C: ,Dave Grace was one of them and then....

I: Who was he?

C: Ah, his wife was National CommitteePMember in ah, in Pinellas

County, down in St. Pete.

I: OK.

C: I called George p~j O- out at Pensacola who was a power in

the JA 4 I called George Underwood of Jacksonville,
\ o


I: Whb was.editor of the Florida U_____
a"LK 0",port'T0 --Fi< rt.
C: That's right ,4 a. Marshallman down at ah, Fort

Lauderdale was a power in Florida, knew a__

believe it was I -Wjahiagt~? And I believe ah,...

Sam McGill ~tCeoL- but anyway)-- after we discussed

the thing and I told him Mr. Harris's pledge, he said alright,
0& ,-q-f-F0A~it1W1 / 1\,
we'll back him... Thd convention was to meet in Orlando in about

a week away. There was a candidate from Winter Haven that was

Pa it"
know who.
cl alright)
I: That's A \ I can look it up.

C: Yea,...so when the convention met and these key men begin to come

in now' Walker, Judge Alien Walker from-. i;aada, of course, He...he
"ithvr sourt_ t_ t
knew without the he couldllet win. I don't know what

they said to him. I didn't hear it, but within an hour he was

through and Harris was ah...was ah, elected. I never will forget

the last time I saw him in a million-dollar home in Palm Beach.

He called me one day or had his wife call me. She said Mr. Harris

is sick and he's very interested in talking to you if you'd come

and see him. said you tell him I'll be down there. I went and

when I went in his living room he was there. His son and daughter

were there. Mr. Calloway he said)I'm going to die Well, I said,
S//g di.W-el, Isod
I dc-do what are you worried about that for. Well, he said/
'I'm going to die right away".I sai I don't know I may die before

I get home. I don't worry about it' He said the doctors say I
_L 7:


have cancer of bladderand I can't live over ninety

days.\ So I said don't worry about that you've had a marvelous

life. You knew it had to come some time. I hope you don't suf-

fer too much with pain:.He said, I never gave it a thought to

religion, to the future. I know you have. I've heard you talk

about it, and I just wanted to talk to you about it. I said

right. All I can do is to tell you my philosophy. I said I didn't

go down to the rail road station and b.uy a ticket to come to this
= A1_AW't_ kTOW V&K '11kS
I I didn't want to come because o- y _Oqr

ty^ I> But the fact of my coming here, there was the intelligence to

plan the trip and the power to put it qA~gkr. And I was sent

down here. I didn't know it when I got here. Man's the only ani-

mal that ever lives that ever knows he lives. But in accordance

with that great plan, and design, and power I began o- evolve

like a rosebud opening into a realization that I'm living here

and now. And as yei look out around 4he' we and btlt-d that

I was capable of beholding, I said this seems marvelous, grand,

glorious beyond my capacity to d scribe it All this handed to me

without me even knowing about it, wanting it, ordering it, paying

for it...and if there is...any power, be it purpose, be it arident,

be it unlimited intelligence, be it an acidental explosion of the

organic chemicals but whatever it was that has

done this much for me I can trust it from here on unafraid and you

can,)e-. I said I don't believe that I'm going to die. I hear folks

talk about I don't believe I'm going to die. I said'God


never made but one dirt, only one, put it together in many dif-

ferent ways. He colored it with different paint, but he never

made but one. And he's such a great economist, not one atom of

it is wasted. It changes position, its form, its shape, its

texture and so forth, but not one atom has ever been wasted or

ever will be. Now,. he told me in a book that I believe some' .7

knew what they were talking about. I think those great Jews-

scholars recorded the truth when they recorded the Bible. I know

it is full of fiction and history,and rot,and dirt, and ah, and

a mess of stuff, poetry, and music, and everything I
know all that. said that's what makes it interesting, but I

think they recorded the truth. I think they did. When they told
ckkVo( ^ me
me who that pL t pW that God formed me, formedAout of the

dirt in just one day, and breathed into my nostrils a breath of

life and I became living, I think they told me the truth. I think

that's all my life is is God's breath _and I said I'll tell you

what I saw once demonstrated in Phillidelphia. There were two

great masters, they were going to debate the question in a......

in a large auditorium there one night, what is Life?" And I went...

and the he master or the....the presiding manager introduced

one. He spent a half an hour trying to explain to us what life is.

It was interesting.- but just before his time was up to talkI

saw this otherreach in his hip pocket back there and is

hand i A pA I fut that thing in his hands like that...

and when that one sat down and this one was introduced he just got WLj


walked right around that man, slapped that A-lv W around his

neck and held him and slapped that -over his nose and

mouth and held it there. And in a minute that man was fighting

for his lifeand just before he killed him/he took it down, and

the crowd went wild with laughter. I was there with them. And

then he saidlladies and gentlemen do I have to spend an hour here

explaining to you all what life is. It's not a thing but what the

Bible says it is. It's God's breath. I was talking to Mr. Harris,

that's life. God's not a man. He's not a long- monster.

He's law. He's principles. What does intelligence say, and purpose?

And I said you're not going to take your stocks and bonds with

you; you're not going to take this million-dollar home with you

when you leave here. I'll tell you all he's going to let any of

us take with us, if he's going to let us take that because he's
-^o If
-e fine of an economist not to.Ahe's economist enough that he

won't let:an atom of earth be wasted)then he isn't going to let

the most precious yF gi ,be wasted. Now what's that? What are

we going to take with us? sw > what he's going to invite us

to bring along with us. He's going to invite us to bring the love

that we've worked for in alongwith us. Don't think you'll

ever have any unless you work for it and earn it. He's going to
invite us to bring the knowledge that 4 struggled to acquire

from our work. He's going to invite us to bring the wisdom that

we've gained through effort and experienced.And he's going to in-

vite us to bring the dear friends that we've made along


with us. He's going to invite us to bring those things because

there the most precious of all, of everything, except life,

and life wouldn't be worth a nickle without those things. And

he's going to be...he's going to grade us according to those

in eternity. We're going to be graded by that. Not in a physical

sense, no, but in a sense that is more powerful than the physical.

You can't see the wind, but it can destroy us anyway. We're

going to be graded by that, andnfuture assignments will,

be according to that grading. So Mr. Harris2you can go and be just

as free of pain as you can when God withdraws his breath and go

along with him happy. It's the greatest journey you're ever go-

ing to have a; chance to make. I saidV 'm a young man compared

to you, but I'm looking forward to that journey. Now, I said we're

told we shall know as we are known. And so many marvelous people

have gone on that they, -at have taken that journey.

Mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers, kinfolks, great minds,

great scholars, great poets, great scientists have already taken

that journey. As long as God wants me to stay down here and do

something for him, and do something for somebody else, and help

somebody else)I'm going to stay here and do it. When this nine

LO & frame of mine seizes to be a fit house in which for me to
live, and ah.-unfit tool, worn-out tool... / which to serve I'll

go.c_lAdXm I said good bye Mr. Harris, it's nice to_

I: Um, w that's an amazing story.

C: So we drifted. We drifted.


I: Well, in that period of time, then, something must

have brought you to the point between 1932 when you

resigned and 1936 when you ran for governor.

C: Right, right.

I: What changed your mind? Aie4 drifting, Mr. Harris

is national committeeman, and Mr. a Dpl who was

also national committees man, but there's no party.

And then all of a sudden...what happened?

C: Well, I had toured back and forth and traveled back

and forth Florida. I knew its laws. I knew its history.

I knew its people. I knew their handicaps. I knew

that the children of Florida did not have the opportunity>

that circumstances that we were entitled to. We didn't

have any roads, we didn't have any bridges, we didn't

have any conservation law. here, then, of that type.

A. F. Knott, the man whose picture you see. I was up

there at his house..................................


FLA REP 1AB -- Tape B

E. E. Callaway (C)
Bristol, Florida

Interviewer: Peter Klingman (I)
December 29, 1973

Typed by: P. F. Williams

C: ...walked out on the bank of the Withlacoochee River

and set.down on a bench there. And he said, "Callaway,

could you be persuaded to run for governor on the

Republican ticket?" I said, you know I know

that not any man branded as Republican could be elected

as governor of the state." He said, "I know that."

He said, "I've been discussing this thing with

and several more of our leaders, and

we want you to run for governor." I said, "Why?"

He said, "You can do something that we can't. You're

a native here, or you're a ,outherner here. You know

the state. We know your qualifications. You have an

opportunity to conduct one of the greatest educational

campaigns for the betterment of tht state that any --

man's ever had." I said, aI can't afford to

finance myself." He said, "We discussed that. How

much money do you think it would take to make a sound,


decent educational campaign?" I said, "I can finance

myself. There's 67 counties in the state. In order to

do any kind of a fair job, you should put up or you

should have in your treasury at least five hundred

dollars a county. And I said, "I think 99 of that

should be spent for advertising--literature, not in

the newspapers."

I: Buttons, pamphlets...

C: Platform, pamphlets, literature. He said,"We can raise

that money without any trouble." "Well," I said, "if

you can and are willing to do it, and you all are willing

to do what I think should be done, I think I'd make the

campaign. I can do it in three to five months,

." I said, "Don't L_ -_t one

dollar of that money. I want you all to set up your

own committees, organization, at home. I don't want

anybody to a~eAi-e this campaign to say that I ran

for money, that I grafted. If anybody offers me any

money while I'm traveling around over the state, I'm

going to tell them to send it to the governor, I'm

not going to take it. What I want you to do is if

I write a platform, a statement )z a declaration of


principles and I need so manyAcopies printed, ye -won't

have to argue 10,6c i, ___v

sg IThey put up the money and I made that

campaign. One primary reason why I decided to do it--

you may be surprised at this, Klingman--brt we had a

law on the statute books here in Florida where what-

ever public school money we had was allocated under

the law to the children on a per capital basis. The

Democrats had elected an ignoramus, a moron from

DeFuniak Springs /0l l)e- a state superinten-

dent by the name of Hawthere-r And he was over here

in Tallahassee. vwhe~n was deliberately using the

money that belonged to the niggers here to pay black

teachers and diverting it to pay white teachers. Sam

Megill, a nigger lawyer in Jacksonville, camedown to

Lakeland to see me and told me what he was doing. He

and I went out to Southern College and had a talk with

Dr. Spivey. He was president of Southern Col-

lege. Dr. Spivey agreed that he would get on the train

with me and come up to Tallahassee and talk to .Mawther-e

We had to go to Jacksonville

we got off in Tallahassee

and we walked up to his office. --e went in and I'd


never met the man. When Dr. Spivey introduced t4&e sub-

ject', -iawth4o was perfectly insulting to us,

He said, "I see you gentlemen are

nigger-lovers." Well, when he did, I'm impulsive enough

and mean enough and Cracker enough, I said, "Wait a

minute_,Dr. Spivey, Lt me answer this gentleman." I

said, "Dr. Hawthd~ie, we didn't come up here to try to

insult you. You can't insult us." I said, "Any man

who is our equal or superior wouldn't want to try to do

it, and if he's our inferior, by God, we're not gonna

let him do it. Now, I'm gonna tell you one thing: unless

we get a definite pledge from you that you're going to

stop doing this, stop stealing these nigger kids' money,

I'm going back and prepare a bill and I'm going to file

it in the United States court and I'm going to make you

stop it. And you can just remember that." We got him

to stop it. Well, that was still in my craw to see these

little old Negro kids being buried in filth around these

turpentine and sawmill camps and out on these farms and

all. Growing up with very more C4i- cultivated intel-

ligence than a puppy would get. I made up my mind that

I'd conduct an educational campaign. I accepted the


challenge. One of the first planks in my platform

and I preached it.from one end of this state to the

other that we needed an educational foundation program

here that would provide an opportunity for every child

in Florida, at least eight months of free public

school LeRoy Collinsthat became-governor of.thie state

state ,4ha introduced that plan over here later and

got it passed. sjt was no more born in his

brain than it was in yours. That's all right! We got

it! There's a lot of improvement can be done on the

thing yet. We didn't have...at that time, it was...

well, this bridge down here hadn't been built. If

you were going from Tallahassee to Tampa or St. Peters-

burg down there, you had to go over a little old nine-

foot shell or- brick road and little old bridges. When

I started that and began to advocate-a...first was a

primary road system that would provide the main trunk

line roads first, so that the people could come here

from other places and begin to develop and buy property

and build and pay taxes so that we could come along with

our secondary roads. I advocated this. And I said this:


"I shall appoint if I have the privilege to do it a

highway commission here as nearly void of any political

partisan impulses as possible to get& I'll appoint

qualified engineers, and we'll locate the roads where

they should be--not by somebody's farmstead to please

him." All right. I drove that thing through. I even..

and I meant this, because right there they had lchair-

man of the State Road Department of Florida was a man
y"t an easLeee
from Tavares down there. He's a Democrat, but and

with very little partisan politics about him. I told

them, I said, "If I should be elected, if you elect me,

I will continue that man in office." All right. Then

I said, "Now, when it comes to the public servi;ie to

show you...I have to run as a Republican. You can't

get nominated in Florida unless you run as a Democrat

or a Republican." I said, "They don't select folks in

this state from brains and ability and qualifications.
9hey get him because of brand. So I'm branded as a

Republican. That's the only way I can get on the ballot.

But if I should be elected, the moment that I'm sworn

in, I will not be a Republican or Democrat. I'll be a

governor of the people of Florida. And to show you that


we will not have the playing of partisan politics while

I'm governor, I will appoint an independent committee

to pass on the qualifications of every major employee

in the state)and in order that I won't wait until I'm

elected to do it, I'll name them now!" SAnid I:named P

think a committee of about fifteen.

I: Can you remember some of the people you named?

C: Oh, Buddy Bishop, who was one of the most important

Democrats in North Florida was named as one. And you

know, the next day he announced through the press he wouldn't

serve on a committee with a Republican! He changed his

mind later on:and called me up and said, "I'm sorry I
W14, --fS A 0)
said that." I said, "That's all right."A"I offered my

platform to Democrats all over Florida and some of them

would look at it and throw it down and stomp it and ase

they wouldn't read a platform of a damn Republican! That

didn't make me mad, Buddy. We need you, Florida does."

I: Who else?

C: J. W. Harold was named. I...I...it's hard...

I: I know, I don't expect you to come up with all fifteen.

C: But I named a platform...

I: Was Mr. Ball appointed?


C: I believe Ed was named in there. Anyway, I named them,

and I said, "Here they are! Let them select the public

service.. I don't want a patronage job." And I said,

"If I get elected, I will not be running to succeed my-

self and I won't be running for the United States Senate

the next time. I'll be governor for four years and then

I'll get outI let somebody else try to do a better job."

I: And you pulled sixty-nine thousand votes!

C: Yes, sir!

I: Although there were only thirteen thousand registered


C: c, 4
over here, didn't you?

I: Yes, sir. But tell me something. Can you tell me where

you got your most Lvt~~-? How well did you do up

in this area, in the Panhandle, because this is certainly

the area where if Republican was a dirty word, this would

have been the place.

C: All right. I got the largest percentage of votes in these
small Democratic counties a North and West Florida.

I: You really did?

C: Yes, sir. Because...listen. My father had been a very

reknowned Baptist minister all over the South. They


knew him. They knew me. They knew the Callaway family.

The Atlanta Constitution Journal in the fourth Sunday in

September, 1927, did a double-page genealogical story

of the Callaway family and gave the pictures, May- pic-

tures, of over a hundred of us Callaway Baptists preachers

and I was one of them in there.

I: So you did well up there.

C: And they knew that if I should be elected governor of

Florida they wouldn't have anything to fear from the

nigger as they would maybe some Republicans. They knew

that I was a Southerner.

I: The '36 campaign we know was greatly divided in terms of

the Democratic party. A bundle of Democrats ran for

office. gaS===----... finally won out in the primary

and won the election against you. What I want to know

first of all is did you run against David Schultz's

record fDOthe four years before? In other words, did

you run against the New Deal?

C: No, sir. I did not.

I: Did you ever mention the New Deal and running against


C: I never did...I didn't conduct a negative campaign. I

didn't have time. I said, "Here's my platform. Here's


what Ipropose to try to do for the people of Florida."

Oh, no. I wasn't interested in it. Why should I

waste time digging up the mistakes of yonder--let's

go forward! See? I never will forget this joy I had

D' e g v\~ bi Fred (o0k- of course,

shouldn't have been nominated. There were some good
men in that race. Judge Tom Sales down 4- Levy County

told me he ae0r cL ,^ 1toed ) gtwenty-

five or thirty ballots in order to get Fred Ceo>-

in the run-off with Judge Pettaway in Tampa. Other-

wise, Bill Hodges up here in Tallahassee would have

been in the run-off. A o they nominated Fred. He didn't

know a thing in the world about what he was doing. He

had no more vision of Florida's challenge, it's oppor-

tunities, than a child who's been living on a little

old country back road over there in Lake City for years.

But when he'd get up to speak...and I chased him from

one end of the state of Florida to another. If he

found out I was...if he was out in West Florida and

I headed this way, he'd head south, and if I headed

down there, he'd head out. I tried every way in the

world to get him ina a debate with me, particularly


on two points. First was this Townsend affair, plan

you heard about. And thesecond was on the educational

program. Now, Fred would come down, while hey speaking,

"My dear people, I begged you not vote for Herbert Hoover.

Don't elect Herbert Hoover." 4o0\ lA OVAt t Lk OAt"
__V V t.< Alf Landon was the RepublicanA Then

when he'd come down off of the platform, he'd try to

kiss everyae e around. He was a moron' They found him

in the bed with prostitutes over here in Tallahassee

time after time, drunk, when he was in the legislature.

EveryOne of those Democrats that he defeated voted for

me--and three of them made speeches for me.

that was _. So,

I had the University crowd down there at Gainesville

come out to hear me.

And I asked them, I said, "I'm gonna ask you young Univer-

sity people here, what has my honorable opponent offered

you that you consider of any value in the world for the

future? What has he offered you? What program does he

have? What's his platform? What does he propose to do

for you and for the state of Florida?" I said, "Not

one thing. He's not capable of offering anything. He


hasn't the brain power to do it." I said, "I'll tell

you what he does do. He begs the folks not to vote

for President Hooverand Hoover's not around. When

he comes down off of the platform, he tries to kiss

everyone around. And I've had a number of them to

tell me it's the flattest kiss they ever had in their

lives, and if kiss enough of them I'd beat him! See?"

Well, the Associated Press picked that thing up and

Bang! It went all over the country. So he didn't

have any program for them. Now, I've been greatly

pleased that the Democrats--they didn't do it for

me--but I've been greatly pleased that they have inter-

preted if the law since then most of the major things

that I advocated.

I: It is very interesting to note that.

C: Yes, sir.

I: It is very interesting to note that...

C: I've been rewarded for my time and effort.

I: Just let me conclude by asking you one question, then

making one statement on the tape for purposes. When's

the last time you were active as a Republican? When

was the last time you were active? When did you sort


FLA REP 1AB -43-f

of get out of politics? I know you told me that you're

no longer interested in the party business. When was

the last time you were interested? How long ago was


C: When I listened to the eight o'clock news this morning.

That's the last time I was interested.

I: Then you're still interested in politics.

C: Why certainly! As long as my mind is reasonably active,

I'm going to take an interest in all the great things.

I: Do you participate actively in local Republican politics


C: I go and vote.

I: Apart from that. Do you go to meetings?

C: If they have one, I go.

I: Now, I really appreciate, Mr. Callaway, the time that

you've taken this morning. I just want to clarify one

thing for the purposes of the tape with you. These tapes,

with your permission, will go to the University of Florida

Oral History Project in Gainesville ei~d a transcript will

be made of this tape, and it will be preserved for future

scholars and for people who will be interested in the

things that you've had to say this morning. If that's

OK with you.

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