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Title: Interview with Margaret McClammy (January 24, 1974)
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00007530/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Margaret McClammy (January 24, 1974)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: January 24, 1974
 Subjects
Spatial Coverage: Creek County (Fla.) -- History.
 Notes
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00007530
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Creek County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: CRK 56

Table of Contents
    Copyright
        Copyright
    Interview
        Page 1
        Page 2
        Page 3
        Page 4
        Page 5
        Page 6
        Page 7
        Page 8
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        Page 10
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        Page 12
        Page 13
        Page 14
        Page 15
        Page 16
        Page 17
        Page 18
        Page 19
        Page 20
        Page 21
        Page 22
        Page 23
        Page 24
        Page 25
        Page 26
        Page 27
        Page 28
        Page 29
        Page 30
        Page 31
Full Text



COPYRIGHT NOTICE


This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
107) which allows limited use of copyrighted
materials under certain conditions.
Fair use limts the amount of material that may be
used.

For all other permissions and requests, contact the
SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida

















NUMBER: CRK 56A
^^-k
SUBJECT: MARGRET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON

DATE: JANUARY 24, 1974

TAPE: ONE

SIDE: ONE

PAGE: ONE








I: January 24, 1974. I'm interviewing Magaret Hazel Sizemore

McClammy.



I: Hazel, how old are you?

S: I'm 72 right now, but in a few days I'll be 73'.

I: And let's see, when were you born then?

S: 1901

I: 1901. Who were your parents?

S: Charlie E. Sizemore.

I: Charliet '1 z tv.oer

S: And Maggie J. Maggie Sizemore. My father married Maggie

Weatherford, Be you understand

I: Uh huh.

S: And Charlie Sizemore married Maggie Weatherford, who was

my mother.


















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET SIZEMORE

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: How far back can, can, how far back can you remember, to

go back on your family tree, how far can you go back? How

far can you tell me all of your ancestors? You go back to,

do you go back to Red Eagle?

U: Can you go back to when you was ktU A 0 C-va6L. ?

S: Yeah, yeah, I can go...you hush your mouth.

I: How far can you go back and tell me?

S: Well where shall I begin? Now my own grandparents were

Charlie Weatherford, who was the grandson of Charles
a_
Weatherford again, who was the son of Red Eagle.

I: So you go back a long ways.

S: He's my third grandfather, Red Eagle was.

I: SL he'.. I h1 lt ?
S: He's my great great grandfather, great great grandfather.

And my mother's great grandfather, you stiH-understand?

I: Uh huh.

S: And then my great great grandfather.

I: Now how many brothers and sisters did you have?




2

















NUMBER: CRK -56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: I only had, I had four brothers, but the oldest one died

when he was a baby. And then I had two brothers left, who

died just a few years ago.

I: I see.

S: William, he was named William Weatherford Sizemore. He died

in Mobile. And Charlie, he died in Monroe. He was the

sheriff of Monroe County.

I: Which one was the sheriff of Monroe County now?

S: Charlie.

I: Charlie Weatherford, and...

S: No! Charlie Sizemore.

I: Charlie Sizemore. How iong,-how long was he sheriff up there?

S: He was the sheriff up there...

U: Six years.

S: How much?

U: Six years.

S: Oh! Longer than that Wilbur. He was sheriff about 11 years,

if I remember right. That's what the paper said.




3
















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MAGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: Eleven years

S: -fbr-hih hat's what I thought it said. Maybe I am wrong

S-_ -'- I'll have to look that up.

U: He was sheriff six years.

I: He was sheriff up there six years?

U: Yeah, he filled out two years see, and he was reelected.

Filled out that other then he served four years.

I: I see.

S: He filled out one year for one man, and then they elected him

sheriff.

U: He was sheriff f-ive-4 ce ou L eA e *

I: Now Hazel, who did you marry? Who did you marry?

S: He married a Miss...

I: No, who did you marry, who did you marry?

S: Who did I marry? I married Wilbur McClammy.

I: Wilbur McClammy, and where's he from?

S: He's from over around Castleberry.

I: Around Castleberry? Is he Indian?

S: No, no uh uh.

U: Noooo, I wish I was.

I: Why do you wish you were Indian.

4



















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET MCCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: Well I think his mother had some Indian blood, but I don't

know who she was.

U: a \r o- D cl;< that's the reason I want!to be

an Indian.

I: Have you always lived up here in this...in Monroe County?

S: Always, well,just when I was off, I taught school a little bit.

I: Oh, did you?

S: That's where I met him. And outside of that, I've always lived

right here.

I: I see. Did you teach, was there a lot of Indian children in

your classes?

S: Not any that I know of. Not any, I don't think.

U: She was over in Conecuh County)you see, over in Conecuh

County teaching school.

I: How many children did you and Willy have?

S: We had, well let me count them up.

U: We had five Ada, we still got four girls, and there's one boy

dead.

S: Uh huh, one boy dead. I believe that's right.

I: Do they still live around in this county, or around hereabouts?

5


















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: Three of the girls live in Moile, and, well I've got one, my

oldest daughter, she lives in Nashville Tennessee.

I: Now as a child, when you were growing up, were you aware that

you were Indian?

S: Sure, sure.

I: Did it have any advantages, was there any advantage to being

Indian?

S: No, not much.

I: Not much? Why? Why wasn't there any advantage to being Indian?

S: Well, we was all pretty-lked when we went to school, all right,

but outside of that, I don't know anything much.

I: They did treat you good up here in this county?

S: What?

I: They did treat, they did treat you good up here in this

county when you were going to school?

S: Oh yeah! Yeah, they're my friends, and things tha-I live

and, people that I live around.

I: Were they Indian people that you were living around?




6


















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: No, they're white people.

I: Oh, were they?

S: Miss Tucker, they still, some of them still live here. They're

very good people. And the Parkers and the Rase, all white

people.

I: Uh huh. What was it like when you were growing up as an In-

dian child?

S: What was it like?

I: Um huh.

S: Well we always enjoyed life pretty,- much. We didn't know noth-

ing much to worry about. Like they have now.

U: We enjoyed hog ,illing/and we-hed-milking cows.

S: We had our own beefs, we killed beefs, and we gardened, and

raised chickens and cattle mostly. Didn't b'uy muh...

U: Didn't even know what money was, but by God they had a better

time then than we have now.

S: We just didn't have nothing to worry about like we've got now.




7


















NUMBER: CRK -56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: What kind of games and things like this did you play when you

were a child?

S: Youe-know. you've got me. Well me and my other used to play

marbles a lot, and ball, played ball, cat ball we called it.

I: Cat ball, what was this like?

U: Baseball.

S: It was just throwing the ball, and first one then another would

bat, and you'd have a place to run. You had to make it there or

get tossed out, one.

I: What was your home like?

S: Well) my home was very, it was, it was a decent home.

U: It didn't have no screens, no glass windows.

S: It wasn't, we didn't have no classy building or anything like

that, and we didn't have the modern times that we got, like

television and things like that.

U: When it was hot weather, they slept out on the porch.

S: Well Wilbur now, if you're going to tell it, I'll hush.

U: Well I was just helping you iu_

S: Well you weree4- 00JO v W,



8


















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





U: Go ahead. Oh Lord!

S: That's the truth, we didn't, we didn't go much& There wasn't
-t
no automobiles much; when I was a kid growing up there wasn't.

Of coursewhen I got 13 or 14 years old, my daddy owned a car

then.

I: Did yoe all have any kind of make-up or anything, how did you

dress, what was your dress like?

S: Oh, well momma always made our dresses out of ginghams, and

little plaids.

I: Did she sew them all byhand?

S: Um huh...no, she sewed on a machine. She had a Singer machine.

She raised turkeys, and bought that sewing machine. I remember

it just as well.

I: Did you all have any kind of special stuff that you wore for

make-up or anything like that?

S: Oh no, no we didn't do that, not until we were grown.

I: What kind of job did your father do?

S: He sawed logs for Blackshire.

I: Sawed logs for Blackshire?



9



















NUMBER: CRK -56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: Yeah, he worked'for Mr. Blackshire -saewvg logs.

I: Did he ever tap turpentine and things like this?

S: No, but they did, they tapped turpentine right around here,

they rented the trees on our land and turpentined it, Mr.

Farrel did.

U: Honey, he told me he used to work turpentine at Perdido.

S: Well that was before my time.

U: \^^ re-^ < c

S: He didn't ever live at Perdido that I know of.

I: Now where did you go to school?

S: I went to Uriah. Now I didn't get to go to high school -ttil

they built this high school at Uriah. You see I was a little

bit over agerbut I went on and went anyhow.

I: Did you finish high school?

S: I did.

I: You did?

S: Uh huh, and I went one year to normal.

I: One year at where?




10

















NUMBER: CRK -56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: At normal school se+eal down at Daphne.

I: And that's a college, is this a college?

S: It was a normal, normal school. It's about the same thing

as the first year in college.

I: I see, I see. Now, where did you go to church?

S: Church? Mineola, Mineola Baptist Church they called it, at

Weatherford Springs. Right down there at the old Weatherford

place. You was right at it when you was down there at weather-

ford's Lwhile ago. And there's a Methodist Church down there,

and my father, donated the landi;.l;nc that built that Method-

ist Church at Mineola.

I: Your father donated the land?

S: Yeah, he gave it to them. He deeded it to them. And he thought

when he gave it that it would be a, what do you call a,

universe .it'd be for all denominations. Well they agreed to

let it go that way, and Ahen the thing, the deed come back or

something, they said they couldn't accept it that way. The

conference wouldn't accept it, the Methodist Conference wouldt+

fTr accept it that way. It had to me Methodist. So daddy says,

"Well I won't take it back, you all can still have it." And

11


















NUMBER: CRK 56A
SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY
INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: ...they did, the church is down there, cemetery and all. Now

we didn't give all that cemetery, so there's been something

added to it. Some of it the Baptists added, the Mineola Bap-

tists added to it.

I: Now when you were growing up, what did, oh, let's pretend

that you were a teenage girl, what sort of entertainment did

you all go do?

S: Well, we used to have picnics. We'd go on family picnics,

and fish frys and things like that.

U: And you had square dances.

S: Wellthey did, that was before I was grown good. Yeah, they

square danced too.

I: Who played the music for yeo all, or what did you all use for

music?

S: Well they was some of your kinfolks I reckon, I don't know who

it was.

I: What did they do?

S: They played fiddle), picked the guitar. Youe-kn4ethey come from

out there at _r_ ____ Springs. You know them there, it

wasn't Gibsons, it was...

U: Woods.


12

















NUMBER: CRK -- 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: Woods, and I can't think of the other people.

U: v

S: Heathcocks)I reckon.

I: Heathcocks?

S: Somebody picked the guitar.

I: Did you'all'have any special drinks that you had, that you

drank?

S: No, e i _W

U: They had all knd ehinny.

S: No they didn't either. If they did, I didn't know it.

U: Oh, they wouldn't give you any of it.
I *7
I: Have you ever heard of aKncf--Em. Ync0 -Ku

S: Yeah, I've seen them make it around cane mills.

I: What was it made out of?

S: It was made out of cane juice,they told me& I don't know what

it was made out of.

I: Would it really knock you?

S: It'd knock the hogs, they'd get drunk on it. It'd really make

them drunk.



13
















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: Did you all use any kind of special herbs and home remedies

in medicine?

S: Not that I know'of. I got snake bit at the spring when I was a

-little bitty gal. And the snake bit meyou know., hose two

fangs went'in the top of my foot. And momma was just sure it

was a snake t L-rs yv looking bad you know. And

about that time grandpa Weatherford come along. He'd been

fishing. And he said, "Yeah, that's a snake." And he said,"It's

a poison.. snake too." And he went off in the woods, and he come

back, and he had what he called '% goyd of the earth." It look-

ed like a turnip. And he made a poultice out of that, and put

on my foot. And theh put it on my foot that night, and the next

morning every bit of that green stuff was drawn out of my foot.

And I never did have any more trouble with it.

U: What kind of stuff was that you used to dig out of the ground

to cure the "seven year itch?"

S: I don't know, I never did have a "seven year itch."

U: N) Hazel, what I'm, I just said that to be funny. But you know

there's an old gentleman that stayed here long years ago, and

he had some kind of, what was that he had? And he dug up some

Polk salad and got the juice, you know your momma told him to

14
















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





U: ...do that? It's poison ivy, that's what he got.

S: He got into poison ivy, that's what he had.

U: He dug up poke salad, you know...

S: But this here was a pure moccasin that bit me I reckon& I don't

know what it was. But anyway, grandaddy put that poultice on

my foot, then he told momma, said, "Now you let it stay on until

in the morning anyhow." And then the next morning, why it just

dropped off, and the green poison was every bit drawed out of

it. I believe I would know that plant now if I would see it.

U: A-tp, nyC -ILC right here. I thought it was a

turnip root, but it was a rutabaga.

S: I, well you pas being silly, I declare.

I: Can you think of any other, can you think of any other remedies

that you might have used for maybe headaches, or when women

went into labor, or anything like this?

S: No, they didn't, they didn't practice any, no, people didn't

practice nothing like that.

U: They put the scissors over the bed.

I: Why did they do that?

U: To cut the pain.


15

















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: Oh, did they?

U: Is what I'm saying on that tape? Oh, I'm sorry.

S: Don't you put down what he's saying, cause there ain't a bit

of truth in it.

U: I'm sorry.

I: Did they make any, do you remember them, any of your family

ever speaking any of the Creek language?

S: Creek language?

I: Uh huh.

S: No, not no more than they speak today. They speak, you don't

speak itdo you?

I: No. There's one or two down there that,-- live in Poorch,

that can remember a couple of words you know.

S: They can?

I: Um huh.





END SIDE ONE






16

















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON

DATE: JANUARY 24, 1974

TAPE: ONE

SIDE: TWO








I: Who was the, who run the family d&d-the did your mother, was

she the boss of the family, or was your father?

S: Wellnew-my mother was practically boss in the house, but daddy,

she never did interfere with his work outside.

I: Did she do all the disciplining of the children?

S: Mostly, mostly, yeah, until the boys got up se-big to whip thirm,

then daddy had to take them on.

I: Did your mother ever tell you any stories about the way that

they grew up?

S: Yes, she used to tell me their story. She told me one time that

they used to play like they'd go on a deer hunt. You know her

family was large; I believe there was ten or 12 in the family,

boys and girls, and little folks coming along. She said one

day they teywt sey played like they was going to go out on

a big deer hunt, you know. And my uncle, one of them; Sid, you

remember he was crippled?


17
















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: Uh huh.

S: And he was going to play like he was going to stay on the

deer stand, and kill the deer, and come on in. When my aunt

come running by him, why he told her stop and she didn't do it.

He played her out, hit her right back of the head. Like to kill-

ed her. Said they had to drag her down to the branch. She was

afraid to go tell grandma then, afraid they'd get a whipping.

And they carried her down there and threw water on her to bring

her to.

U: Now that's Indian stuff isn't it?

S: But you know, Aunt Laura always was kind of funny after then.



I: Did they, did any of your family ever tell you any stories

about hunting with bow and arrows, or did they always have guns?

S: All my people had guns I think. I don't think they had any bows

and arrows. They knew what a bow and arrow was alright and

such as that. But if they ever hunted with themI didn't know.

I: Did any of the men ever go off on hunting parties and bring back

deer for instanceT




18


















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: I don't remember them doing that. But now you know Billy

Weatherford, Red Eagle, was off on a big hunt the day he

died. And he died right up on the hill e the Little River

Church across there. And he come home, but on the hunt, I'm

ahead of my-yarn, he said they saw a white deer. Said

Weatherford said, "One of us will die before we get home."

He didn't believe in nothing like that, but he just,.you ;'

know,ssuperstitiouslnad told the others that. And when he got

home, and he got to the gate, why he fell off his horse dead.

I: I'll be darned.

S: But that was going to happen anyhow; the white deer didn't

have nothing to do with it.

U: That white deer was the thing that scared him to death.

S: But that really happened they said, went down in history.

I: Can you think of any old superstitions that might have been

passed down to you? Are you superstitious?

S: No.

I: Can you think of any superstitions that might have been passed

down to you?

















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: Well)I don't know whether I could right now. I've thought so

little about them, I reckon I forgot them. I don't believe I

can remember any. That's the only thing that ever appealed to

me, was about Weatherford seeingg that white deer then he

come home -hek-he fell off the horse dead.

U: Didn't they say one time Weatherford umpedd off f in

the Alabama River a bluff 300 foot high with a horse?

S: No, no it was Billy Weatherford, they told that, but they

said he knew a secret way out...

I: When you're talking about Billy Weatherford, now you're talk-

ing about William...

S: Red Eagle.

I: The Red Eagle?

S: Um huh, but his real name was William Weatherford.

I: And you call him Billy?

S: That's what momma always called him, Grandpa Billy.

I: And they really knew him?

S: No, that's before my momma's time, too.




20

















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: But these were stories that were just passed down?

S: Passed down, through tradition.

I: I see. Can you remember anymore?

S: Bst she remembered
called him. His name was Charlie too. Charles Weatherford, and

Atmore-is&my grandaddy Weatherford's father, Charlie Weather-

ford's father. They're all buried down there at close to

where you went -while ago.

I: Down by Weatherford's Store?

S: Stzeem, No, Uh uh, back this way, the old Weatherford springs

place out here, close to the river.

U: YC (4A0'S t dpt3k- ,%_ I'ou30 qwtlMr,

S: Just about a quarter of a mile from where it was. But Red

Eagle now, understand he's not buried there. The state bought

over his grave. They, I mean the county, Baldwin County. Mi&s

oh, who did she marry?

U: Drezbach.

S: Huh?




21



















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





U: Drezbach.

S: You know, she married Jamie Drezbach. That was some of our

kinfolk. And she sold, after he died, she sold that Red

Eagle's grave. It was on her property over there close to the

Alabama River. And the county bought it, and they have made a)

they have fixed up his grave. They've got it real nice now.

I haven't been down there since they done it, but they say

it's real nice. And his mother was also buried down there too,

right side of him. They say it was his mother; I suppose though.

ea, I don't think the state did anything to her grave. They

just did it to Red Eagle's grave. It's a wonder they did it

for him.

I: Why?



S: Well because some people blame Weatherford for that massacre

there at Fort Mimms. But they said he tried to stop it, and he

just wouldn't go against his own people to go with the whites.

And he was caught in it, and he wasn't going to be a back-

slider so he-flaf fought the whites. But some people blame


22

















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: ...him with S6. murdering those women and children. They said

those warriors just went mad. They was wild, mad, and he

couldn't do nothing with them. Had to let them do as they

pleased.

I: Did you think they were, he was justified in sticking with

his people?

S: In a way I do, yes. -.It-! look mighty sorry if we'd turn our

back on the United States when we was in war with Germany or

something, wouldn't it?

I: Sure would.

S: Yeah, well that's the way it looked to Weatherford too.

I: No, I don't think he could have turned his back on his people.

S: No.

I: He had to fight...

S: He said he couldn't fight against his mother's people, he wasn't

going to do it. You know his mother was full-blood Indian. And

his daddy was the one that was white, he come from Scotland I

believe. They said he was ScotchAIrish.




23

















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: Do you know how Red Eagle got his name?

S: No, just they said he was brave, and they called him Red

Eagle. I don't know. Do you know?

I: WellI've heard a story that the Irish blood came through,

and that he had red hair, and that's why they called him Red

Eagle.

S: Wellit might have been, it might have been.

I: I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that story.

S: They say he did have red hair. I've heard that he did have red

hair.

I: Well maybe that's why they called him Red Eagle.

S: Red Eagle,,it could have been, could have been.

I: Did you know Calvin McGhee?

S: I've heard of him a lot. I think he's been to our house. I

know he has, to parties, Calvin.

I: Did you think he was a good leader?

S: Calvin?

U: I think he was.

S: Well he must have been for his time I think, yeah.



24
















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: Did you get your Indian money?

S: I didn't know him. Yeah, I got some of it.

I: How much did you get?

S: I got $112.13. And now tell me how much yeo all got.

I: Oh, we got a hundred, everybody got the same amount of money.

S: Same amountV

I: Same amount.

S: Um huh. Well that's exactly--what I got. _

I: That!s what-Uncle Calvin got too.

S: And I signed up at Bay Minettei .somebody told me to go down

there and sign up.

U: You did sign up down there one time.

S: Yeah, I did, but I 4s4\e "'-i but I had to go

down there and sign up when I got my money, itheirt time I

got my money.

I: Did you ever go, you never did go on any trips or anything

with Uncle Calvin then did you?

S: No, no. I never was invited, therefore I didn't go.

I: Would you have gone had you been invited?

S: No, I don't expect I would have.


25
















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





U: 4-. cousin went with him to Washington.

S: Who?

U: Ruby, you see your cousin went with Calvin and them up to

Washington D.C. up there you know?

S: Oh yes.

I: Ruby was one of the first council members)wasn't she?

S: She was the one that started it all wasn't she?

I: Did, is Ruby the one that started it all?

S: She started it at first.

I: Did, let me see how I want to say this... (aA

S: Died out if it hadn't of been for himI reckon.

I: It would have...

S: Ruby had other things she had to tend to; she couldn't keep

up with it. And then her health got bad. She begged out on it.

I: Is Ruby alive today?

S: No, she's dead, dead. Been dead since 19-what Wilbur?

U: She's been dead about seven years.

S: I know she went to Washington D.C. with Calvin then, just

about a year before she died, and she didn't live but about

two years after that.


26


















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: Do you feel that there is a closeness among Indian people

today?

S: No, I don't think so.

I: Why?

S: Well, those way out west don't care for us, do they, and those

way down in the south end of Florida, I don't reckon they know

we're living, do they. There's not no closeness I don't believe.

There may be, I don't know, I don't travel around enough to

know. You think it is?

I: I think that they're beginning to get more united today, I think

so. Of course we don't live on a reservation though you see.

S: Or anything like that do we.

I: And I think there is a closeness among the ones that are still

left here east of the Mississippi.

S: Might be.

I: Do you ever visit down in Poorch and those communities down

there?

S: Down where?




27

















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: In Poorch?

S: No, but I've been through Poorch a lot, and my uncle used to

live down there. Sid Weatherford, lived way over there back

of that there Baptist Church.

I: Do you know who the chief is today?

S: Who the what?

I: Do you know who took over Uncle Calvin's place?

S: His boy.

I: Do you know who he is?

S: Who is he?

I: Houston.

S: Houston?

I: Um huh.

S: That's his name huh?

I: Right.

S: I never met him, but I've seen his picture in the paper.

I: Oh, you have?

S: I believe it was him I saw.

I: Do you know anything about, then you don't know anything about

what the council's doing today or anything?


28
















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: Oh no. No, I don't know anything about that. Well they had a,

they had a supper out there not long ago didn't they, or some-

thing. I heard Ms. Day say she was invited, and they went to

it. more good eating .

She made me hungry.

I: Do you think we could improve our relationship with, say, the

Indians in Atmore, and the ones in Huxford, and Monroe County,

and Monroeville, and Uriah, do you think we could improve our

relationships if we could get some form of communication, so

we could let people know what we're doing down there?

S: I think so. I think they'd appreciate it.

I: What do you think we could do to improve communications?

S: Well, I guess you're doing all you can do. You let them know

what those meetings are about don't you? Don't you put it in

the paper and things? Well I don't see nothing much else you

could do.

I: Have you ever been down to our Pow Wow that we have on

Thanksgiving Day?




29


















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





S: No, I haven't.

I: We have a good time down there, you ought to come down.

S: Well I don't know whether that was what Ms. Day was talking

about or not, but she said that here not lately, that you all

had something.

I: I've got a feeling that it was probably our Pow Wow.

S: I guess it was, I guess it was.

I: Did you, did you hear about the mass-meeting that we had down

there in regards to our second payment of Indian money?

S: Un uh.

I: You didn't?

S: Mass-meeting?

I: Yeah, we had a meeting where we called them all together, and

talked about the next check we were going to get.

S: You did talk about it?

I: Yes, uh huh.

S: Well I don't know nothing about that.

I: Yeah, we did. That's the lack of communication.

S: That's right, I won't get nothing, I won't get my check.



30

















NUMBER: CRK 56A

SUBJECT: MARGARET McCLAMMY

INTERVIEWER: EVELYN DAVIDSON





I: Oh yes, yeah, you'll get your share. I'm sure, oh yeah. You'll

get your money.

S: Do you know whether there was any McDonalds down there at that

last meeting or not?

I: I surely don't.

S: They're my kinfolks, they come from Mississippi I believe.

I: Unless they got up there and spoke, or said who they were, I

don't know them.

S: I don't think they'd do that.

I: I wouldn't know. Do you think that the government was fair in

paying us that $112.13 ?

S: Well if that's the best the government could do, I reckon it

was. Must have been fair. Looks like they could have done a

little better though don't it?

I: Seems to me they could have done better.

S: I think so.




END OF INTERVIEW






31





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