Title: Interview with Lori McGhee (August 20, 1973)
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00007528/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Lori McGhee (August 20, 1973)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: August 20, 1973
Spatial Coverage: Creek County (Fla.) -- History.
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00007528
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Creek County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: CRK 54

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DATE: AUGUST 20, 1973




I: This is August the 20th, 1973, /nd I'm talking with Mrs. Eli

McGhee, and her name is Lori McGhee.

I: Well why don't you just start talking lebeef as you did a minute

ago, about when you were a girl, and how life was when you were

growing up and all of that?

S: Well, back when I was growing up we had it tough. As far as I

know, we didn't have too much to live on. And I'm just telling

what mother told me. I don't remember it. But we didn't have too

much to live on cL_ old enough to go

to school, why she said I didn't have too many clothes to wear.



S: And she said when I'd come in in the evening time, she said

that she usually always rinsed my dress out/ and ironed it

for the next day.

I: Well, you were living down at Freemanville at the time)you say?

S: No, I...we wasn't living down there. We lived over here at

Hedapodeda, across a little old branch, in a little old log

cabin. And...

I: Were you living on what had been Sam Rollin or Elliot Rollin's

place, or what place were you living on, do you remember?

S: I believe they said it was Elliot Rollin's place. But I, you

know back then, well I can't remember too much way on'hback

then. But that's what they said, that it was Elliot Rollin's

place. And back in.them days, why you see we didn't know

nothing about school buses. We had to walk to school. And what

little bit of education we did get, why we just got it the hard

way. That's what I'd say about it. And this day and time,

children got a good thing going to school, I think.

I: Do you think they're taking advantage of.it or.not? Are the




I: ...children getting all out of school now that they should you


S: I believe they are.

I: Good. You were saying your husband didn't have much education.

.He didn't...where did he go to school now, what little he got?

S: Bell Creek.

I: Bell Creek? What were you saying before about how he used to

act in school?

S: Yeah, I've heard him tell that several times, that the teacher

caught him with his feet hanging over the bench. And she just

let him stay there until you know, she got where she could

tend to him. And she had to give him a whipping.

I: Do you remember the names of any of the teachers over at the

Hedapodeda school when you were growing up there?

S: Yes, one of them was...one of them was Lucille Moore, and

Nancy Bates, and Bertha, Bertha McCullom. Now that used to be

my school teacher when I went to school. And there is one more,

Lizy Moore.

I: Lizy Moore?




S: Lizy Moore. I believe I went Aoee to her than I did any of the

rest of them.

I: Now did they all teach in one room, or how was that little

schoolhouse fixed up?

S: One room.
I: And they, but all the teachers were there in "he room together

at the same time?

S: No. You just had one teacher you see.

I: Oh, I see.

S: They didn't have no, you know, like it is today in town, that

they have, you know, several teachers. We just had one teacher.

And that teacher taught all them grades.

I: Did Lucille Moore come after you had already started to school?

S: Oh yes, uh huh.

I: So you were going to school there before she came?

S: Um huh.

I: About how many children would be in the school, average year,

if you recollect?




S: Well, I just really wouldn't know what to say about that, cause

I just don't remember. But you know, all the children around

about the community had to go to that same school you know. But

I just wouldn't know how many to say.

I: Were there ever any times when the children, at say the Heda-

podeda school, would get together with the children of the Bell

Creek school?

S: No.

I: Were there ever any school activities that would get the children

from the different schools together?

S: Not as I know about.

I: Well other than...

S: Now I don't know any too much about the Bell Creek school, only

just what he said about it. But when I went to school, that's

where I went to school, I didn't go any other place except that.

I: Well outside of school, what did the youngsters do for fun back

in those days? Did they have any recreation at all?

S: Well, they didn't do nothing but play ball.

I: Did the girls play balltoo?




S: Oh yes.

I: What kind of ball did you all play?

S: Baseball I reckon, when-youirun from base-to base, what's...is

that what you call that?

I: Yes. And the girls played right along with the boys?

S: Oh yes, they didn't have no separation, girls and boys played


I: What church did you go to back in those days?

S: Baptist ChurchI guess.

I: And that was the one that met in the school house there?

S: Yes, yes...they had a church as far as I know.

I: Did they ever have any Holiness preachers over at Hedapodeda

at that time?

S: No, I don't believe they did.

I: Just was:. the Baptist.

S: Just Baptists.

I: One thing I've wondered about, and I wondered maybe...maybe you

would know. I've heard many people say that before the Episcopal

Church came to Hedapodeda tthe Baptist over there. And I wonder

if you ever heard any of the older people talking when you were

a girl, about how it was that the Baptist Church originally




I: ...came in. I realize that that would be long before you were

born, but did you ever hear any of the older ones talking

about how the Baptist Church came in?

S: No, I sure didn't. I don't remember that.

I: Do you ever remember any of the older people talking about

ever having been a different religion than Baptist, or de-


S: No, I sure didn't. I can't remember that.

I: As far as you knew they'd always been Baptists?

S: Baptists) as far as I know.

I: Did they have a regular preacher over there at all, Baptist


S: I imagine they did, but I don't even remember what the preacher's

name was.
I: He came every Sunday, s.

S: I don't remember that.

I: Do you remember Elliot Rollin?

S: No I don't really. I've heard mother speaking about him, but you

know, I guess I was too young to remember that.

I: Yes, I've heard that he was one of the oldest ones around at

that time..




S: Yes.

I: Well what else do you remember from your early days in Heda-

podeda, some of your memories that you think about sometimes?

S: Well now, I just don't...can't recall. I tell you, it's so

far back that you can't hardly remember, cause my memory is

not good like it used to be. I guess back then, I guess a

bunch ed-us children didn't do anything bu get out and play,

I guess.

I: What did the older folks do?

S: I don't know what they done, just drift around I guess.

I: Did they, do you remember when they used to have old...what they

called frolics and things over there?

S: Yes.

I: Those dances?

S: I remember that when we used to have them old frolics. Back in

them days they didn't know nothing but square dancing, I don't

think. That's probably all they did, square dance. But that's

one thing I just never did care not.too much about.

I: Even as a girl, you never...?




S: No. But I was like all the rest of them, I guess I might have

tried it. But as far as anything else, I just went along with

the other ones, I guess.

I: How did you meet your husband?

S: When I met him, well:we"was-livingrat FreemanvilleBut I guess

I'd saw himyou know, different times you know, before then, but

after my sister died, why we got to courting around. And the

first thing you know, we got married.

I: Where'd you get married, did you get married in a church or


S: No, we got married over here in Robfsonville to a preacher's

house. And I believe the preacher's name was Asburry I believe.

I: What denomination was he?

S: Well, he was Holiness...Holiness.

I: That's one thing I...

S: And I never will forget the time. Well, it was bad weather, and

so it was kind of late when he was coming, you know, to get me,

you know. And so I had done undressed, and was in the beati. And

when he come to get me now, and he says, "We going to get

married?" I said, "Well I don't know now, it's getting so late."




S: And so, "Well get up, get dressed, let's get ready to go."

And we went on over there, and we had to go down a little old

lane. And you couldn't see the road hardly for the water, but

we made it on to the house, and we got married. And we had to

leave the car up the lane a piece, and walked on to the house.

I: Now what year was that?

S: That was in '39.

I: That was in '39?

S: '39. You know we've been married...the 30th of June, 33 years.

I believe that's 33 years.

I: O.k. that should be right. Right, yeah.

S: 33 years.

I: No, it would be 34 years wouldn't it, if it's 39?

S: Yeah, 34 years.

I: Your husband had a car at that time, or was he borrowing some-

body else?

S: Now he was living with his mother, but I don't remember now if

it was his or just the family car. They all,.you know1,usedethe

same car I -gu". v eckov.




I: Were there many people that had cars in 1939 in the community


S: Now I can't remember that, whether there was too many cars or


I: I was going to ask you about, in years past, when people in

the community here have gotten married, have most of them been

married in the church, or gone to the courthouse, or where do

people usually get married, say years ago, here?

S: Well I'd say, they'd usually go to the courthouse. Because

back in them days you never did hear of people, too many people,

getting married in the church.

I: You didn't?

S: No back when...you know, when I was coming up.

I: How did you all happen to decide to get married by a preacher

in a church?

S: Well, his mother was a Christian, and so she wanted us to get

a preacher to marry us, and so we did.

I: You still had to go get a license and all that I guess at the

court house and all that?

S: Oh yes.




I: Nowa'"days, are there more church weddings, like for example,

in your church, do many people get married in your church now?

S: Well several.

I: Well through the years, since you've been married, how have

you and your husband lived? Where have you lived, what kind

of work did he do and all those things?

S: Well, we didn't move around like a lot of people did.

I: You didn't?

S: No, because after we got married you see, well it wasn't too

long after then, why we bought us this home here.

I: You had another home before this one?

S: Uh huh, yes, we had an old house.

I: Where was this located?

S: Right here.

I: In this same spot?

S: Same spot. See, when...

I: You've been living here since you were married, in this spot?

S: We lived here before we was married, right here in this same

spot, and we've lived here ...we've lived here right on.




I: Was this your husband's daddy's place here?

S: No, we bought this place. We bought this place from a lady out

of Mobile. See, she owned this place before we bought it. So

we just happened to come along here one day, and well, Eli's

brother-in-law, Blake, told him about that she wanted to sell

this place you know. And so we got in contact with her, and yeah,

she wanted to sell it.

I: Was she a member of the community here, or was she some...?

S: No, well, you know, she's got people lives here, but...

I: Is she Indian herself?

S: Yeah. And well, she lived at Mobile at the time then, and she

thought she'd probably, you know, buy...build up out here and

live out here,you know.

I: Who was that by the way?

S: That was...oh, _V__f_ May Gardener.

I: UJi May? What was she before she was a Gardener? Her maiden,

I assume that's her married name?

S: Yeah.

I: What was her maiden name?




S: Well, Hanson, I believe.

I: Hanson?

S: Um huh, I believe she was a Hanson. And so we got in contact

with her, and yeah, she wanted to sell the place. And there

was twenty acres of it. So after then, why naturally you know

we askedaer-what did she want for it, and she said 800 dollars.

I: How many acres was that?

S: Twenty. And so well) we made arrangements then got the plans,

went down there and bought her out.

I: And started to 4Jld?

S: No, there was already a house.

I: Oh, the house was already here?

S: The little house was already here. But see we stayed here I

don't know how many years before we, you:know,hhad this one


I: And that was an old style house was it?

S: Yeah.

I: Was it a log house, or...?

S: No, it was a lumber house, but you know, it wasn't very big.




I: One of those kind with the front and back porch on it?

S: Yeah, they had a front porch on it but not a back one. And

it was kind of built...a little long house you know.

I: So you and your husband have lived here since before you were

married you say?

S: No...no, we lived here after we were married.

I: After you married, uh huh. And before you moved here where did

you live?

S: Freemanville.

I: Freemanville?

S: Um huh.

I: Now when you say Freemanville, do you mean right down in Free-

manville, or on the outskirts of it or how?

S: Do you know where that railroad crossing is?

I: Which one now?

S: Over at Freemanville. You know where that road comes in from

the Jack Spring Road?

I: Um huh.

S: Straight in?

I: Um huh.




S: Well before you get to that Frisco Railroad, we lived right by

that Frisco Railroad.

I: I see. And that's where you, part of your time as a girl, you

walked from there over to Hedapodeeda school?

S: Yeah, yeah. Of course now we didn't live there, we lived over

on Ewings farm.

I: You lived on Ewings farm?

S: When I used to walk and go to school. So we, I believe we

moved off to Pensacola and then moved back to Freemanville.

I: What was the reason you moved off to Pensacola?

S: Well I just don't remember now what 4jr .oA,-' U)h .W

I: Well, tell me aboutiwhatAitIwas like to go to Pensacola and live

down there after growing up up here. That was your first time

living in a big city I take it?

S: That was the first time we lived in a city.

I: What were your reactions to that?

S: Well...

I: You were about how old at that time?

S: I can't remember.




I: Well you...you were still a small girl?

S: Oh yeah. We was...mother had two children you know, and so we

was still kind of small.

I: Did you go to school in Pensacola at all?

S: No, no we didn't go to school down there. I don't think she lived

down there too long before we moved back to the country.

I: Do you remember anything about what you liked about Pensacola?

Was there anything about Pensacola that you liked when you went

down there?

S: Not too much, because I never did like the city. I never did

like the city too much.

I: What is it you don't like about the city?

S: Well I guess it's all right for some people that like to live

there, but I never did like to live in the city because,/t seemed

like it...it's always, you know, too close to the neighbors you

know. And so when you're out to yourself like we are, you see

why, you don't never have no trouble with nobody. In fact, you

don't want to have no trouble with anyone.

I: Well has this always been a pretty peaceful community around here?




S: Yes it is.

I: Has there ever been any real trouble that you know of.

S: Not as I know of. It's always been plenty peaceful.

I: Ever...ever been a time when there was occasion for people

here to call in the law on any kind of activity?

S: No, I guess not.

I: Back to when you were a girl, one of the things that I'm in-

terested in is, were there any old Indian customs of any kind

that held on here? And I wonder if you remember wether you ever

heard any of the older people talking in the Indian language at

all when you were a girl?

S: No.

I: You never did?

S: Never did.

I: Did you ever ask them about that, or...?

S: I don't guess I did then I don't remember.

I: Were there any things that they did, that now as a...years later

you look back on and wonder if that was an old Indian custom or


S: No, I don't guess I did. I can't recall.




I: How did the old ladies dress back in those days?

S: Old fashioned, just about like they did yesterday.

I: With the bonnets and bows?

S: With the bonnets on and the long dresses.

I: Did they go in much for decorating their dresses with ribbons

and things at all?

S: Now the best I can remember, I don't believe they did.

I: They were pretty simple?

S: I remember when my grandmother was living, she wore these old

big long skirts, gathered around the waist with a band on it,

and a blouse and a bonnet.

I: Did she wear an apron?

S: Yes, she wore aprons. But...

I: Was this something she wore all the time, or just when she was


S: No, she...well, she wore it all the time too you know, but now

I can't remember now back when she if-she worked any out in the

field or anything like that. I can't remember that. But I do

know she did wear an apron. But I don't remember if she wore an

apron all the time, or just occasionally. I just don't remember




I: How did the older women back then do up their hair? Did they


S: They'd do it up, you know, just plain and back. Either ball it

up or braid it up.

I: Did they ever...

S: A lot of people called it braided hair, and some called it

plaited hair, so I guess either one.

I: But they would never let it just hang loose down the back, or

tie it up like they do sometimes in a pony tail or anything like


S: No.

I: It was always up on their head somehow?

S: Yeah, um huh.

I: Did the...did women, the old ladies ever go barefoot much back

then, or did they usually wear shoes?

S: Probably went barefooted.

I: Yeah, yeah. Would they ever go barefooted to church?

S: Not as I knows of.

I: I guess people couldn't afford many shoes back in those days.

S: No) I don't imagine they could. That's one thing I never could




S: ...do, is g6 barefooted. I got to have on something or another.

I: But a lot of people around here used to go barefooted?

S: Oh,yes.

I: Still do.

S: A lot of them still do.

I: Did people ever have many, by going barefooted and all that, I

wondered if they had, years ago, had much problem with the ring-

worm and the hookworm and all those things?

S: No, I don't guess they did, because I never did hear nobody

complaining. I just wouldn't know what to say about that. Kind

of out of my memory.

I: Do you remember, back when you were a girl, did you all ever

come over here to this area very much, or did you stay over at

Hedapodeeda all the time, or did you get over to Bell Creek or

Hog Fork once in awhile?

S: Well I'll tell you the truth, I never did know nothing about this

place down here until after Eli and I got married, not too much,

because we'd usually go back the other way towards Hedapodeeda,





I: Would you...had you ever been over here before at all?

S: I imagine I have, but you know, but I don't, I don't guess I

come too often you know.

I: Did you ever come to go to church meetings at Bell Creek or

Hog Fork or anything?

S: Yeah, I've been to church to Bell Creek.

I: But you just really didn't know much about this area?

S: No, I didn't know too much about this part over here.

I: Did you know many of the people?

S: Oh yeah, I knew some of the people, but you know, I never did...

I: It was like different communities really?

S: Yes, that's right, like...

I: Is it that way at all now 4d you think?

S: Well, it's like this, these don't go up to Hedapodeeda too much,

and them up there don't come down in this way too much.

I: Even though they're kinfolks?

S: Oh yes, um huh.

I: Well, changing the subject, you said that, while ago, that

since about four or five years after you and your husband were

married, you've been trying to live for the Lord. Tell me




I: ...about how that came about. What happened at that time?

S: Well, I just seen I was lost abeet the Lord, and so that's

why I got 'aitt. And a few years later, I got the Holy Ghost.

I: Now see I don't understand much about Holiness religion. What's

the difference between being saved.

S: Repent, repentence.

I: And you feel that coming from the Lord, is that right, to be


S: Oh yes, you've got to have the Lord to be saved, uh huh.

I: Well how is that different from being filled with the Holy


S: Well the Holy Ghost, it guides you and teach you into all the

truths you know.

I: Well did it...what difference is there between the feeling

you have when you're saved, and when you have the Holy Ghost

S: Well when you're saved, you're just repented of your sin, but

when the Holy Ghost comes in there, well you know it.

I: And that's...after you've gotten the Holy Ghost, are you changed





S: _well, in.some things. And well, the Holy Ghost, it'll guide

you and teach you into all things, all truths.

I: Is it possible for a person to sin after he gets the Holy


S: Yeah, because that's the trick of the devil you know.

I: Even though you've been saved and have the Holy Ghost?

S: Yes.

I: You can still be a sinner?

S: Yeah, you can backslide, you see. The devil, that's the way

the devil comes in there. He...he'll steal your victory. That's

why it pays people to be prayed up. See, you stay prayed up,

why you can overcome that enemy.

I: And you can be prayed up in many ways, or only.,#I mean can

you be prayed up by yourself, or does it need to be in church

or both of them?

S: You can pray anywhere.

I: But constant prayer keeps the devil from overcoming your victory?

S: That's right. Praying...you know, that's what all people need to

do, is to pray a'lot.




I: Well why is there...are, do you think, so many different

churches here? Is it only your church that has that particular

belief, or what is it that makes...?

S: No, there's otherhchurches.that's gotothat belief. Even Baptist

peoples here get...are seeing the Holy Ghost now.

I: Well why are there so many churches then if people believe the


S: Well I don't know, you may be, the BaptLas. speak of seven


I: Um huh. That's what you've got here.






DATE: AUGUST 20, 1973



I: You remember some of the old ladies did their hair a little

bit differently than they do now, how was that again?

S: They'd ball it up on top of their head.

I: On the very top of the-head?

S: Right, they'd come up this way, you know, and ball it up right

on top.

I: Did they ever wrap anything around it, a net, or ribbons or

anything, just pulled it up on top?

S: Just pulled it up on top and e.n put hairpins in there.

I: How about the young girls when you were a girl, how did you

all do your hair?

S: Mother braided it up.

I: Did she put it on top of your head or down...?

S: No, no, pulled it down side of...I guess down side of our head

you know, and plaited it.




I: Would the older girls wear their hair that way too, or...?

S: I imagine they did.

I: One thing I've been meaning to ask you, because you're some

of the few people here who have a store, is tell me about your

store, how you got started in the store business and all that

S: Well, that's been several years ago when I started out in the

store business. My nephew, well he knew I was getting kind of

aged, and he said, "You ain't. able to get out and work no more."

So he says, "I'm going to build you a store." Well, I said,

"You are?" He said, "Ye = believe you can make you

a little living," he says, "better than getting out and working

in these fields." And I said, "O.k." So the first thing I knew,

he come up here and built that little old store out there for

me, and stocked it up.

I: And who was that nephew?

S: Curtis Neil.

I: Curtis Neil?

S: Um huh.

I: That...what's his last name?

S: Neil.




I: Neil?

S: um huh. So he come up here and built a store and stocked it up

for me first. Then I kept the little old store several years,

you know. I done good business. And after then why...after I

got in that car accident, well)I couldn't do it no more.

I: And when was that?

S: I got in that car accident in, it was after mother died, let's
see, she died in '6 I believe it's been five years ago.

I: You were in the hospital for a long time?

S: No, I didn't...they didn't keep me in the hospital after the,.,

well at the time being, they didn't know I had a fractured hip.

See they x-rayed me, but they didn't find it. Well, my hip kept

on bothering me you know and I couldn't walk. Well)they took me

back to Dr. Thomas and he x-rayed me again, so he found that I

had a fractured hip. SaWy, "You've got a fractured hip, and

arthritis in it." Well, I thought sure probably he'd put me back,

put me in the hospital. But he didn't, ,e said, he told my

husband, said, "You take her back home, and put her in the bed,

and let her stay there four weeks." Well, he had to work, so I




S: ...got one of my cousins to come and stay with me. She stayed a

couple of weeks. Well the girl at the time being, she was work-

ing you know, and we got her to stay with me a couple of weeks.

And she charged 40 dollars a week. So that was kind of expensive,

you know. And so after then, she didn't, they told her that that
was a little bit too much you know, and tha l boarding her too,

you know. And so she wouldn't come back to stay no more, and so--

they just figured, said "Well you can't stay here by yourself,

you're not, you know, you couldn't get up." I couldn't be up.

I: This was your cousin that was charging you 40 dollars?

S: Yes, um huh. So I just Kvewe d 0p f I told e-hem

I says...told them what I thought I was up against. I said, I

told them what the doctor had told me, what I had to do. See, he

didn't know I had a fractured hip, but I did. He said, "Well,"

said, "I'll be up early in the morning after you, I'll bring

you down here and you can stay with us." Says, "I'll grant you

one thing," said "you'll get attention. So he wouldn't atea-t,

that morning, he come that night about ten o'clock I reckon,

and stayed 'til morning. And they took me down, and I stayed




S: ...down there four weeks. And I'm telling you, he really fixed

it convenient for me.

I: Your nephew?

S: Yeah, he sure did.

I: Now is that your...?

S: My sister's boy.

I: Your sister's boy? And your sister is who?

S: y ( e _______

I: _e-f______?

S: Her first name is ,Y -__ And well after I stayed

four weeks, I don't know, it seemed like, well I could have

stayed longer, but I seemed like I just wanted to come home so

bad 'til I 4l'un-e -A4 wrote the girl a letter, 56

"You all come after me Sunday." I said, "No later than Sunday."

I said, "I want to come home," I-said,;"if:I donit-have nothing

but bread and water to eat." I said,1I'm not the type of person,

I don't like to stay out from home too much. So they come and

got me and brought me home, but I still couldn't walk. I had to

use a walker for no telling how long. And after the doctor take

me off the walker Q& 84a & WO A vrki 64




I: But you don't use a walking cane now?

S: No6 I'll tell you what happened. One night, I believe it was

one night or one Sunday morning, my brother Capp- you know

himdon't you well he had a broke, it was either a broke ankle

or a broke leg, at this time being. Well, they carried ae to

church, and so that morning he got prayed for, and he laid his

walking cane down. And I just thought that it -had b.e myself,

I said, "Well if he had faith to lay his walking cane down, I've

got faith to lay mine down." So they prayed for me, and I laid

my walking cane down the very same day, and I never have used

it since.

I: And that was right up here at this church?

S: Yeah.

I: Years ago, if somebody had been in your condition, would they

have had -thee-sprit- community, would they have had to pay

somebody to come and take care of them, how did they get taken

care of years agoif somebody was hurt or sick?

S: Probably they'd have to do the same foe-teehr

I: Their kinfolk wouldn't come to help them without getting paid

for it?

S: That was my cousin, and we had to pay her.




I: Do you think it's always been that way? When you were young,

back in your young days?

S: Now I don't know back in my young days, whether it had happened

like that now or then or not'.L, k

I: Because I've heard some people say that if a man got sick or

something, everybody in the community would get together and

plow for him.

S: Yeah.

I: Now that was true then?

S: Yeah that was true back then...yeah.

I: But not anymore?

S: No sir, not no more.

I: Back to your store, was that the first store that ever was over

here in Porch, or was there a store before that?

S: Now let's see, I...I don't remember if Walley McGhee had his

little store up here before we put ours in or not. But I believe

he did.

.- And his store used to be in the house next door to where Cora lives




S: Yeah, yeah. And after...for a long time why you see, they built

them a little old house bak there- youlknow, they used that for

a store awhile, but after he died, why she had a little old room

built on the side of the house, and that's what she's using now

for it.

I: Was it in here someplace, I've heard that once Calvin McGhee had

a store in here.

S: Yeah, that's right. Calvin McGhee had a store right up here, you

know where Rackards live?

I: Um huh. Well how long ago was it that Calvin had his store there?

S: Now you're asking me a question I can't answer. see.

I: Was it before or after you all had yours started?

S: Oh, it was before then.

I: Before then?

S: Uh huh.

I: Was it a big store?

S: Yeah, it was.

I: All in one building?

S: One building, uh huh.

I: When you...

S: But I can't remember now how many years back that a.




I: When you had your store, did you let people buy on credit and


S: Yes I did. I know one thing, you can get bad cheekIse 44-t,,

I: Can you? Did you have some of your people that did that?

S: I sure did.

I: Did you have to really get after some people about paying their

bills or would you just let it ride?

S: I'd let it ride. And finally I did ask them to pay me, but they

never did, some of them never did, and some of them did.

I: Did you let people have credit other than those that lived right

around here?

S: No.

I: Maybe just those who lived here?

S: Um huh.

I: The Calvin McGhee store was right down there?

S: Yes.

I: Was it before p started, or Riley started his, or after?

S: I believe it was before they did.

I: How come he went out of business, do you know?

S: No, I don't know.




I: Now before you had your accident, you had all kinds of groc-

eries and things in your store, or what all did you have?

S: Yeah, we had a pretty good lot of stuff.

I: Did you have meats in there at all?

S: No, I didn't fool with no meats because we didn't have no meat

case or nothing like that. Mostly what we sold was like canned

stuff, you know, what wouldn't ruin. We had might near most

any little thing, you know, that we thought wouldn't ruin, you


I: Where did most of your customers come from?

S: Around and about in the community.

I: Just in this community?

S: Um huh.

I: Did you have any customers from Hedapodeeda that would come over


S: No, I don't believe I did. If I did it wasn't, you know, they

never did get -to much.

I: What about these colored people that live down the road, were

they ever your customers, did they ever come trade with you?

S: I had several of the colored people that'd come over and buy

stuff, but, you know, they never did buy nothing on credit.




S: They'd always pay cash for what they got. You know, like soap .

and washing powder and sugar and stuff like that you know,

they'd come, probably run out, you know, and they'd run over

and get some.

I: But now you just sell soft drinks, cold drinks and things?

S: That's all. I don't even keep, I did keep candy one while, but

it's so hot and I had some to ruin on me so I...

I: People just come to your house here and get you if they want

to buy something or what?

S: Oh yeah, they'll call me...they'll call me.

I: On the phone you mean?

S: No.

I: No.

S: They'll knock on the door, and you know, I'll see who it is, and

a lot of time I'm in the kitchen you know and I'll...we keep it

locked because I've got my freezer out there, and I'll just give

them the key and let them go out there and get what they want,

because I ain't got nothing but drinks nohow.

I: Do you think there'd be, anybody could really make much money

now if they opened a pretty big store here in the Porch com-





S: I believe they could.

I: Ever heard anybody talk about wanting to do that?

S: Nope. That husband of mine, when he retires, that's what he

says he's going to do.

I: He's going to open this up again as a big store?

S: Yeah, that's why we are still buying all the store license.

I: Does having a store like that in a little community like this,

does it ever cause you to get on bad terms with some of your

friends sometimes at all?

S: Well no.

I: I just wondered-about that.

S: I never have had no trouble with any of them.

I: Any of them. I just wondered about people being on credit and

that kind of thing, ever...whether you ever...?

S: No. Well, it's like I said while ago, that I have got some

that hasn't, didn't, never did pay me, so...

I: But you wouldn't bother them about it much?

S: Why no.

I: Yeah. I guess if you weren't careful, you could lose money .tt?

S: Oh yeah, yeah. But it wasn't all that much. So it was, I said

well, I told Eli, I said, "Well it won't break us, and won't




S: ...make us rich." But it's like this though, if I owe a person,

I sure want to pay them. But there's a lot of people that's

different from that.

I: I notice you have a postcard up there with...is that Calvin

McGhee on the side there?

S: Uh huh, yeah, that's him.

I: Did, I never met him, did you and your husband work with him

when he was working on land money and all that very much?

S: No, shy I didn't know nothing about that land money. But now

he could give you a history of it.

I: What do you think of all this Indian doing that's going on now

with the costumes and dancing and all that?

S: Well, I don't know. It looks to me like they're getting a big

kick out of it. They're enjoying it.

I: Yeah.-Whatpurpose-do you think it serves other, just as pure

enjoyment, or is there anything else that might be gained from

it do you think?

S: I just don't know.

I: How did people feel about that when it first started up? When

Calvin and them first started putting feathers on, what did




I: ...people think of it around here?

S: Well, there's a lot of people that never had seen nothing like

that I guess. So I guess we just didn't really know what to

think about it.

I: Do you feel like the Creek Indians of this part of the country

have been mistreated at all in the years past?

S: Well according to what they say) tFer-Saik they was.

I: Did you yourself ever feel mistreated because you were Indian?

S: Well I don't know. I guess...I guess I was in a way, if they

mistreated them like they did the other ones I guess.

I: There's a lot of Indians around the country these days, I guess,

well you don't have a television, but I guess you've heard about

it, there really getting kind of radical in some ways.

S: Yeah.

I: What do you think is going to be in the future for this com-

munity, and the Creek Indians of Alabama, what's going to hap-

pen in the future do you think, for them?

S: Well I justareally don't know what to say about that. I just

don't know what to say.

I: I was interested in the brush arbor up there, that was almost

like bringing back old times wasn't it?




S: Oh yeah.

I: Do the people in the church like that do you think, in your

church, do you think they really like that brush arbor?

S: Yeah.

I: They do?

S: Yeah, they like it. You know long, back years ago, you know

people they had more brush arbor meetings than they do now. You

know they don't, this is something kind of new to people now.

I: Um huh. But you can remember when they had them before?

S: Yeah, I've been to brush arbor meetings. And then there's lots

of people that has been to brush arbor meetings, and there's

lots of people that don't know nothing about one.

I: Like some of those younger people up there?

S: Yeah, yes.

I: Did you hear any of them say much about the brush arbor, the

younger people?

S: I've heard, I've heard several of them testifying that that's the

first time they've ever seen a brush arbor/and beig6 in a brush

arbor service. Well, you take Miss Kirkland was down there, I

think it was Saturday night.

I: Now she's a judge from Atmoore?




S: Yeah. And we was talking with her, and she says she's been in a

brush arbor meeting.

I: I guess it was a lot of years ago)

S: Yeah, probably.

I: Well that sure was fun yesterday, eating, and all those people

in the old-timey costumes.

S: Yeah, it was, I think every thing was carried on real nice, had

plenty of food to eat. If everybody didn't eat as much as they

want, it was their fault.

S: Do you think it...I just wondered if everybody thought it was

all right to sort of dress up, and make a, kind of a party out

of church, do you think that was all right to do that yourself?

S: I believe it was, I didn't see nothing wrong with it, because if

old people dressed back in them days like they did yesterday, I

didn't see anything wrong with it.

I: Yeah, Yeah.

S: Did you see anything wrong with it?

I: I didn't see anything wrong with it, but I wondered whether some

people, since it was such a totally different kind of thing, I'd

never heard anybody ever talk about, you know, in recent years,

people dressing up in old-timey clothes to go to church.




S: Yeah.

I: But everybody seemed to be having a good time.

S: A lot of them clothes wasn't old clothes, they was bought.

I: Yeah, bought specially for thatbyy),

S: Specially, because Edith had her half-sister down there yes-

terday, and she bought her one Saturday.

I: Um huh.

S: And let's see, she commented yesterday-onhow miceh-she paidlfor

itp 4 dollars, Ibelieve, plus she had to have a long slip and

a hat. I think it was real pretty myself.

I: Did it bring back any old time memories for you, going to the

brush arbor?

S: Yes it did.

I: What kind of memories did it bring back?

S: Well, I thought about when we used to go to a brush arbor

meetings. Now I can't hardly remember, but they said there used

to be one right back down in here, in this woods down here some-


I: Where was the brush arbor you used to go to?


I: That same one down here in the woods?




S: Um huh.

I: Was there ever brush arbor meetings over in Hedapodeeda that

you know of?

S: I can't remember that, whether there was or not.

I: But you never, you never saw one yourself?

S: No, I think, I guess that was about the first one I seen, I


I: The one down here in this woods?

S: Uh huh.

I: Well, unless there's...

S: Yeah, you're tired of me talking now ?

I: No, I'm not, you just keep talking as long as you want to.

S: Yeah...oh no, I ain't going to talk no more.

I: All right.


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