Title: Interview with Vicki Sells (August 31, 1974)
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00007525/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Vicki Sells (August 31, 1974)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: August 31, 1974
Spatial Coverage: Creek County (Fla.) -- History.
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
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Bibliographic ID: UF00007525
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Creek County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: CRK 51

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behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of

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Date: August 3i, iy/3
Subject: vicky Sells, sister- vendor Andrews
Interviewer: raredes
Transcriber- Sharon Harrington


r: This is August the 3i.t, and I'm interviewing Miss vicKy

Setis and her sister vendor Andrews. vicKy, it you'd just

start talking about what it was like tor a young person, ah, to

grow up in this community, starting back when youA trst

remember what it was like. First or ali, how oid are you.

S: Eighteen.

r: You're eighteen, oKay, so about seventeen, sixteen, seventeen

years ago is -a4et as tar back as you can remember.

S: Yeah.

r: What was it like to be a youngster.
Syotk;e. -r4"_ T
S: Well, I can remember when I tirst started school. When I

started, you know, they didn't have the cafeteria t.ey-do now.

-I--used-to come home tor lunch and there were two grades in a

room, everybody, I mean, they joined in and that seemed to yr J

,-.4wer-what was being taught and when they closed that school down +--

it bothered me because, i mean, they would send aLt, everybody

out here, you know, ftey wanted to send their kids to Atmore,

so, that got &ee-ia geSd down that when it did, they were hurting

and they had to start going with blacks and ur, it really bothered

me when the school was closed, I said, cause I made it in there

and i didn't tnink why anyone else shouldn't.

r: Urn-hum.

A: We all did.

S: Me, ratty and them...

r: vendor, why don't you come sit over here


S: .L-- iedayrg-" went up there and finished the sixth

grade up there. I didn't see why nobody else couldn't go up

there and not learn as well as in Atmore and that's what

puzzles me about all the families wanting to send their children

to Atmore.

P: Um-hum. Did you ever hear them say any reasons why they

wanted to send them there.

S: No.

r: Now, you went on to High Scnool rrom Atmore.

S: Yes sir. T graduated trom the sixth grade up here and

entered seventh grade in Atmore.

A: Me and her both. ya see we had homeroom together,

S: Yeah. It was not so nice going down there cause everybody

picked, I mean, I don't Know about everybody, but, i Know the

"f_-4as I had when I started Junior High, all these old boys,

you Know, that thought they were something, go around and call

ya halt-breed, like yeAdidn:t belong there.

A: That's one reason I quit, they picKed at me all the time.

S: And it wasn't nice at all, I mean, it made yatreel low when

ygashouldn-t, but, I told 'em it you was to look back on your

heritage, ye4might tind a little bit ot Tndian in you( And

that's true.

r: How were the teachersY

S: The teachers were terrific, i mean, no teacher treated me liKe

I was ditrerent trom anybody else.

F: The boys that were calling you half-breed, were they trom any

particular area, 4=T-mn, were they town boys or rural boys?

S: They were town boys.

r: They were town boys, um.


f: Iow were the biacKs, when you were in High School, were

the biacKs going to school at the same time?

S: Well, when I started in Senior High they started going.

r: Did you ever go out with any boys trom town? Anyone

in High School,

S: I didn't then, but 1 do now.

r: but, when you were in High Schoot you never had a date

with any boys/ -Pr', +iOVJ .

A: Yes sir, not where we went.

S: Not rrom Atmore.

r: but, you did date a boy when you were out, was he IndLan

too or not?

S: NO, but he was nice.'

r: Did many ot the Indian girls date boys trom town!

A: Some ot them did.

S: I don't Know. I thinK Linda and them did.

r: Linda:

S: Linda

r: Well, were thefbEoys from the community up here at High

School the same time you were?

S: yeah,

r: It a dance came up or something like that, would you get

one ot the boys out here to taKe you?

S: I wouldn't never go.

r: You didn't go to any dances when you were in school

S: iNot'til Senior year. I went to the rom with the boy I'm

going with now.

r: Where s he trom!

S: Atmore


j: Atmore. you never went ott to tnatIllndian school out in

South DaKota, did you.

S: No, sir.

Y: How many girls trom around here have gone ott to that scnooi.,

A: Just one.

S: It was Susan and and virginia and Charlotte

/MGCeCe. Theys the only ones I know that ever been up there.
S-: C# /i L., C
r: Virginia ko ,' ? Have you ever taLked with her about what

it was like to go to school up there.

S: I taiKed with virginia later on and sne said that she liked

it and all, and I was talking to her another time about all the


r: What made you decide to go on to College.

S: Cause I just wanted to go, I mean, it was somethin- I've been

thinKing about all through scnooi. I'm goin' to go to coLtege

and become somethin- none or these Indians around here, they're not

doing anything.

P: Did anybody give you any encouragement to go on to collegeY

S: INO sir, I just had it made up in my mind that I was going.

P: What has your parents reaction been to your going to coiLeger

S: They re proud or me.

r: Are tney? NOW, has the Episcopal Church helped you at aii

in going to coLiegeY

S: Well, Mr. row(ll urn, right before school starts he II deposit

so much money in me, ah, checKing account, y8Y'Know, tor me

getting settled at school and my booKs and stutt.

r: Um-num.

S: but as tar as that, I-m on the WorK-Study program.

r: Um-num.

S: And Lt works out my dorm tee and my meal ticket and ai that.

r: Urn-hum. iou were talking before about how it teit to jXP o

-geiag trom nere to Atmore, tatK a little bit about going

to co.Lege, what was that iike, when you went ott to college?

S: Well, when I went to college everyDody just loved me cause I

was an Ind:an, I was living history and they love/i' a '

m" ',. ,'. i mean, it don't bother em, I mean, they re 4y' L

just proud cause they know an:lIndian and yIa 6q K --ma B

not be so tar ott, ya Know, I thought there were indians down. there,

but it was me and my roommate, were, she ah, she-s a Ro /in

girl. rom over there on WI,. She lives in town almost. She's

my roommate and she s an.- Indian,too.

r: What's her name!

S: --Bea Rollin.
Sk..-r r'O4j e2 oad -C2d4(
': And whojdoes hor mother-eLe /
uAo\ o\A AIr-I,,
S: hud A--an, I think.

r: is she getting any help in going to school at all?

S: She get, the, Rehabilitation Center helps her, cause her dad

is disabled and ah, she's on the WorK-Study, too.

r: What motivated her to go to college, youthinKY

S: I don't Know. She liKes it though.

r: What, taLk it you can, you know and what want through your

mind all these years to make you decide -ff l, cwndcJ6 -6 CA /ij fva/

; s jr ": : I Just put it bacK in my mind that I was going to be just as

good as anybody else and, and, when I got all my schooling it

wasn t nothing anybody could take trom me.
r;. UJ,.

r" Have you ever talked with anybody that Was--ggbng to college,

at aLi.

S: NO sir.

F: Before you alert, what did you think college wouid be like?

S: Terrific, and it is, I mean...

r: you weren't scared at aln about going otr to collegeY

S: I was a little scared Decause, you Know, I didn't know how

they were going-to accept me, and if I'd have friends and all,

cause I was an Indianiy the way they did when I first started

in Atmore to school.

P: Um-hum. But when you got there you tound it was.,.

S: It was all, it was different. It just made me want to go

more, because, everybody, yakknow, they really liked the Indians
-^ IdtU- r nwt, -(Ife7
and theyA and all kinds of people would come up and.say,
A / ',' v -J
"Well, you know, the Indians were really ripped of 4nd all

this, and they would start chattering on about all this stuff

about the Indians.

P: Ah, what percentage of the student body at- arngnette Junior

College ar- dormitory students?

S: I don't know. 1 Cr[ '.1 -l' ,-- YC" s. ,Tr-. c .. )KtC rC r" ti' l

P: Are there many students living on campus?

S: Yes, pretty good many. I think the dorm holds about one-<-

hundred and, the girls dorm holds 126, I think and, um, the

boys dorm hold more, c,' 4t L 9e b ctA Y 's Yn

p: Have you taken a more active part in social life at college

than you did in High School?

S: I like it very much.


P: I mean like dances and things, do you take part in those things?

S: Well, down there they don't have that many because, you

know we don't have, the faculty doesn't haveadequate funds

to hold a whole lot of dances and stuff.

P: How well did Atmore High School prepare you for college?

S: It was fine cause I haven't had any trouble so far.

P: Well, tell me what you intend to do when you get through

with your college education? Wl(fJr+. ti l ^ i do

S: I want to be a P.E. teacher.

P: P.E./ How did you pick that?

S: Because, you know you see all these people that are old

age and don't exercise and sit around all the time, it makes me

want to you know, tell 'em get out and do something. fYouk w, &t'-'

just walking that's exercise e-etomo f them, these children

today they don't get out and walk around like we did when we

were small, they sit A 44, .e Ssete, all day when-

ever they can. I mean, cause you're not happy unless you're

physically fit.

P: Have you given much thought as to where you'll look for a


S: No, sir.

P: Where would you like to get a job?

S: I don't know, I really don't.

P: That wouldn't matter to you whether it was close to home

or far away?

S: It would about being real.far away because I don't want to

be that far from home.

P: Um-hum.

S: But, you know, something not so far off

P: Is your, th, boyfriend go to Ba-ignette Junior College.

S: No he goes to Troy.

P: Um-hum.

S: Well, he went t4Brcaoo last year, then transferred to Troy

this year.

P: And you're planning on going to Troy?

S: Yes, sir.

P: Well, ah,.-have the Episcopal Church given you any assurance

that they'll help you all the way through or not?

S: Well, Mr, o told me whenever I need any money to just let

him know, cause he said something about Indian Scholarships that

he had that nobody around here had used any of .fAc .

P: Are these church scholarships or what kind?

S: I don't know. I think it was some people out in/itmrsW "C had

donated the money for Ford Indian Scholarships.

P; But, the other day you said something about you weren't sure

they had the Work-Study Program at Troy, or what was that?

S: They have the Work-Study Program, but I'm not sure if

I'm going to get on it up there or... / C! /

P: Um-hum, um-hum.

S: Cause the hardest subject's s4-we- when I get up there and

it'd take more time to study.

P: You haven't found much difference between Junior College

and High School? Or is. it harder at Junior College?

S:\ It's not on the basis of being harder, it's just yotlgotta

get at it and study cause anything's hard if you want to make

it hard; even grammar school can be hard if you want it, but

if ya4just study yaegot it made, cause, that's all it takes,

you don't have to study that much, yeLjust have to listen in

class and a lot of times when I just sit and listen I get more out

of it than when wr-te everything down.

P: Have you had many conversations with your friends and

relatives you age out here in the community about what its like

to go to college?

S: No, sir.

P: Nobody never asked you?

S: No, sir.

P: Have you done anything to try and encourage otheirto go, you

were talking about .....
3-e ( x ;o"
S: I've talked to Georgia Lee and Virginia Baile and I said you

all ought to go its a Junior College and-y-a-l StJJ"' 7i5"

Shouldn't have to may for anything, you could get on the Work-

Study and work your time out and I said its fun being on

Work-Study down there because you/have spare time sometimes,/ it,

just helps you out. Neither one of them are going.

P: What reasons do they give?

S: They just don't want to go, that's all I qan get out of it.

P: Have there ever been any boys around here interested in

going to college?

S: Well, I think Allan went.

P: Allan, iwa- C

S: Tp i

P: Um-hum.

S: He went a couple of years when he graduated and (,'/y/ Ca/1(

went and those are the only two I know that went to college

from around here, cause, when Gordon graduated he didn't go and


um, oh, and Maxine, she went to college.

P: In your own opinion, honestly; why don't more of them go

to college?

S: I don't know, that,it puzzles me cause, I don't see why they

don't they're just, to me they're just making the Indians rank
down lower than anybody else cause, I mean all the white

people go to college, all the blacks go to college and they

don't have to worry about expenses.

P: Um-hum, um-hum.

S: And you can't say? well, I haven't got the money to go

cause the money's there, if you want it you just-4ve to ask

for it.

P: But do you think there are many people around here that

have a native intelligence enough to get through college? In

your own opinion?

S: Yeah. They could.

P: Its not because people aren't smart enough to go to college?

S: Right. Smart enough not to want to go, I don't see why they

should, they graduated. LL",i

P: Um-hum. 4-g4aes- there's still quite a few people I think

maybeboys more than girls that don't graduate from High School.'/ ) -

S: That's right.

P: Why does somebody drop out?

S: I don't know)they just get in the wrong bunch and,..

P: You said you dropped out because,.Qd )

A: I couldn't do the work, ad r j ttI- i (4 1- J-ak- -s C.

S: She's/a hard learner.

P: Um-hum.


S: And up here the teachers know, took patience, you know, to

help us, but down there it was like knocking upside the wall.

P: You mentioned that the boys picked at you at school, did the

girls ever pick on you?

S: Well, the girls just wouldn't associate with you hey

thought they were too good. 'V At O .

P: Would they go so far as to not even walk down the hall with -

youl (, rV .t1 1

S: No nothing like that, you know, they just wouldn't talk to you

in a conversation and things like that.

P; Did you have any girlfriends when you were in High School

at Atmore?

A: No. Ur-hum. (Negative) J. v.J i 7/

S: You know I got alot of friends now.

P: What was your favorite subject in High School?

S: P.E.

P: One thing I've heardI partly because of, I guess were

there any girls from out here at school that didn't like to dress


A: Some of 'em.

S: I don't know. When I was in High School it was me and Susan.

P: Susan c- t

S: And she dressed out when I did as far as I know ,one time I

think she failed P.E.

P: Vendora, you said when you were in school, were there lots

of them that didn't want to dress out/ /iLC -

Az Ur-hum.

P: What were their reasons for not wanting to dress out?


A: I don't know, they just didn't want to.

P: Ur-hum.

A:> P.E.'s my favoritesubject I'm going toC,f-., f"

P: Were you ever, I know its been mainly boys doing it, but when

you were younger, Vicky, were you ever involved in going on these

dancing trips and things like that withCJi!/i/, McGhee.

S: Naw-aw. (negative)

P: When did you get interested in making a costume and those things?

S: Couple years ago. I mean I wanted to know about the Indians

cause I was an Indian you know, so when people ask me4whatN --jA"1

all this, I could tell 'em something.

P: Urn-hum.

S: I'm proud to be an Indian. I really am.

P: What's the source of that pride? Why are you proud to be

an Indian.

S: I don't really know.

P: Are there any young people, now,today, who are ashamed to

be an Indian?

S: Not that I know of, they're might be, but t don't see nothing

to be ashamed of.

P: Do you think most of them are as proud, do you think most

of them are as proud of being Indian as you are?

S: I doubt it.

P: You doubt it. -Lwi'

S: When I go somewhere, you know, like,1 I feel I don't want anybody

to know me

P: UM-hum.


S: As far as that goes, last year one of the coaches a

P: Um-hum.

S:JfJc. -;, -, )
P: Start over about the coach.

S: Well, I was talking to one of the coaches at ya know,

about, why didn't they have a/mascot red eagle to go in all the

football, I mean, basketball games, and ah, they were the cheer-

leaders and all this stuff, so they take it-into consideration

and I got some stuff and fixed this board, but nobody would

volunteer to do it. there wasn't that many that looked like

Indians and all this stuff, so we just picked one out and

asked him would he do it. And he said yes. So we fixed him

an outfit and you know, we painted him up at the basketball

game -cJ fFy ti A- .t I cp -c cdi rO at the corner of

the gym. Everybody thought that was fantastic so they said when

we come back next year were going to do it again.

P: That was your idea?

S: Yes, sir and it worked out pretty good.

S: Well, a couple years ago I ran for Princess and I didn't get

it, but I- Iwanted to be considered Princess of the Creek

Indians, you know, I thought it would help my image some being

Princess. -So I went, and I didn't get it, this girl from

K Century go it, Debbie ieatln, or somebody. But this year when

I ran I think, you know, if I hadn't of got it, you know, 4I

think it would have killed me,because I really wanted to get

Princess this year, because,it meant something to me, like

anybody else, it probably just meant the title of being Princess, A


S: It makes me feel good to say I was the Princess f the

Creek Indians mcC-

P: Oh, how do you think the Princess could be used better than she

is for the cause of the Creek Indian?

S: Well, as me being Crekk Princess this year, they haven't got

any activities, you know, considering the Princess, they just,

there's not that much stuff, for;-to consider about the


P: Would you yourself be willing to go off to other places

representing the Creek Indians, make talks and things?

S: If I had the information to talk about I would.

P: What if,-just forrthe sake of, I don't know what, ah, if

somebody were to ask you now, you're the Princess, would you

tell us a little bit about your people? Just say what you would

6^ ~ -/
S: I'd say, well, a long time ago, -he Red Eagle ancestor, um,

the white settlers. came in on the Indians and the Indians, they
: r- firl kP^ JlT ) -
were proud they were astonished to find the Creek Indians

living in housen,because the Creek Indians ther wep nt-a-1AAg.-in

"tepees, they were living in little permanent houses when the
--11-~y Pf.A
white settlers came, they had cows and all this stuff, raising

them and some even had slaves, and ah, the chiefA I mean the

great landowner, he hhd the majority of the land and everything

was, you know,Alike in rhythm they did. The settlers didn't

understand this and they couldn't realize that the Indians

were human, too. They thought ee they were dogs or something. So

everything was going fine, no fighting or nothing, untilAthe
'SM- t C&c-"
'h, settlers jumped on a band of Creek Indians at ----4r

Creek and that was the first battle in Indian history.


S: After that the battles just kept going on and on and. on, and

at Ft. rF'5, ah, what/really puzzles me, -ws when the Creek

Indians won a battle it was called a massacre, -bit when the

white settlers and their military people won it was'a victory

to them, but when we won a battle it was a massacee and that's
yot kito, -, PV~d t:Aa
what I don't didn't like about it, and ah, I/ead in history

a book about Red Eagle talking to Jackson and Jackson wanting

him to surrender and like Red Eagle told Jackson, he said,

remember General, you invaded our land we did not invade yours.

P; Well, what about the recent history df your people, I -

thought that ah, I'm playing the par of a questioner fpSi

I thought all the Creek Indians, all the Indians in the

Southeast hed-been shipped to Oklahoma
S: No, theAlndians left here were on a land grant from Andrew

Jackson by ah, thea
were banned to Oklahoma.

P: how was it for your people, say just a few years ago, bac1f like

in your grandparents and parents time?
a A4
S: It was rough because you know, a-la they didn't have, I guess,

I don't really know, cause they had to cook on wood stoves and

they didn't have plumbing and all this. It must have been pretty


P: Well, how do you people live today?

S: Well, they're justlike anybody else now. These people

around here, I mean they have what they want and they could have

more if they wanted it and wanted to work for it I guess.

P: But you don't think a lot of your people want to work for

tese- things?


S: Well, I'm not sayingjthey don't want to work for it, they
CO!'.'w P,6 t,"{,L e rrn ke.-,n
just, to me, they/don't /try to do better,4. I don't know,

they get, they just don't try to do better.

P: Well, what are most of the young people like yourself

doing nowadays?

S: They're just getting little jobs and working, they, they're

still living with their parents, so they-don't have nothing to

show for their money except the good time they have. That's

all I can take of it cause T don't 4 none of them that I know of

have cars, and what they make of their money, I mean, they just

blow it. Because they're still living at home and the majority

of them I know,don' give money to their parents for, to help

share in the expenses.

P: They just blow their money?

S: Probably so.,[

P: Well, ah, I don't know if we got this on the tape earlier or

not, but, ah, what again are your feelings about Wounded Knee

and how did Wounde4Knee affect your life?

S: Well, Wounded Knee I was all for Wounded Knee and the Indians t't

recognized and took into consideration, but, they just went

at it in the wrong way.

P: people at school, ask you about-what wea they doing?

S: They would come up and say when did you flying-out to

Wounded Knee and all this/and I just tell them when my jet

comes or something, they were just joking, but some of 'em

said, well, I'll go with you and all these people say well,

I'll go too.l It was funny for them to be saying something

about Wounded KTee.


P: Could you envision yourself ever becoming a militant Indian?

Like the ones you see on T.V. and read about in the newspaper?

S: Well, sometimes I'd like to. O^'^
,"-k,! i.'vtc ym -0c It
P: What makes you fee that you'd like to sometimes?

S: Because, there's just something about the Indians, you know,

that people, youknow, any people people in Atmore you know,

they just won't associate with the Indians and tey'f-iglt, and

put you down as part of being a savage, so why not live it

sometimes. ?-ar

P: Well, what ah, what do you think lies in the future of the "ie.1 ?

people in-the Atmore area?

S: Well, the future of the Indians aeet-d here, around Atmore, it

can't be too great of a future 'ause, as soon as -eaie, the

young boy Indiargaround here, they go to school awhile and

drop out, then even if they make it and graduatjrom ligh School

they won't go to college anthey just, 4eey,.r can't get

a job that's adequate with a high school education anymore.

P; Do you think/some of the recent activities like the Princess

contest and the Thanksgiving Powwow, in general, -do you LtLiLk

j' that/ going to develop into anything more,you think?

S: I wish it would.

P: What would you like to see it become?

S: I wish you know, t y'd just have, hold maybe a three day

deal up there and just let'amy y fro all over come and

advertise an keep on advertising you know, they, I don't know,
/I yk" kvno Ha/ ".7
its just unreal to sit down and jet-think/thsfy'r, you kno.,

they're having th-at little thing up there, they should have it more



P: Well, what's the point in this day and age of putting on

Indian costumes and all/that kind of thing, what point is there

in that?

S: Well, a lot of people think its mockery and all that, but 4-ts,'

I mean, if you're an Indian and you're proud-you'dT-you'd,want

you want to do this, but like I say, if you're ashamed of being an

IndianA putting yourself in a costume sure don't help you at


P: One thing I wanted to ask you about was that I noticed one

day on a shpd put bEesi4d your house. hee. tq a s 4gn that says Indian

Power, were did you get that?

S: My little brother found it somewhere andibrought it home and

tacked it up out there.

P: Have you ever gotten any comments from your friends and relatives

about that?

S: No, sir.

P: How did you happen to meet that fellowJ Uria)that you went

to that High School dance with?

S: Um, I don't know, I was etyin. at Susan's house, they came

down there or something and just good friends.

P: And your present boyfriend you've met in ligh School?

S: Yes, sir.

P: Is he Indian?

S: No, sir, he's not.

P: How do you-feel about that subject of ah, do you ever give it

any thought about whether it would be nice to marry an Indian or

not and(Indian?


S: Well, I hadn't thought about it but, I don't really know, but,

see itsAfunny cause a lot of people around here they think I'm

uppety-up because I go with a FRYr/ and ur, it don't bother

me and/I'm never felt left out down there, I mean, they love me

just as much as they'd love anybody, and they'd/yo more for me

than I could ever ask, I mean they do.

P: What's going to happen to the Indian people if in future

generations everybody marries a non-Indian?

S: They'll die out eventually.

P: How do you feel about that?

S: Well, in some cases it might be good because'thpy-just, they

just don't understandreally.

P: UM-hum. You think it would be just as well for Indian

population as a group to die out?

S: Not really but, its working on that, because, t--meea, living

out here it- just like all those who don't go to college, th/ -

what do you have to look forward to if you marry an Indian boy

from out here? Pinch pennies the rest of your life and they could

go to college and make something of themselves if they wanted tto,

lEhey just don't want to.

P: Are you suggesting the possibility that if both boys and girls

more of .them went to college there might be more Indians marrying


S: Right. Thats what I'm saying because you just have to look at it

as a whole and not just as little parts, but really, I mean, there

wouldn't really be that much marrying between the Indians

because so many of us around here are kin, somehow-or another.

P: Um-hum. Have you had much opportunity to meet Indians from

other tribes in other places?


S: No, sir. Not really.

P: Did you get to talk at all with people over at the Powwow

in Baton Rouge a ym other tribes?

S: No, sir.

P: Would you like to ?

S'F-A S: Yeah. They seemed so different thanfwe did, to me.

C '- P: How were the Indians in Baton Rouge different to you?

S: They just seemed all together different. They were quiet and

they wasn't really friendly, the young ones-the ones I'm talking

about. The ust seemed, you know, like hiding over in the corner, as

you put it.

P: Your people don't hide in corners, hjh?

S: No,they don't. )jt- 3

P: When you were in Aigh-chool and even today what do most of

the young people do for entertainment at home here?

S: Here?

P: In the community. here.

S1: Well, -ey, its either sit and watch T.V. or that's it-or out

here they have.at the Church, they have a little recreation thing,
% Ct I /
you know, -hey play volleyball and stuff, that's it.

P: Has there ever been any talk of starting just a recreation

program of any kind out here?

S: I don't know.

P: Have you ever tried to start anything like that?

S: No,sir. Wouldn't do any good, really, cause nobody wouldn't join,

I mean, they wouldn't want to.

P: I've heard a, .4eantf-n subject, but I heard and read in the

newspaper and so forth, that in the town of Atmore itself that


their's increasing drug problems and those kinds of things. Is

there any drug problem/ with Indian youngsters in this area?

S: Well, I've heard of some of them, yl'vknow, having it, but,

as far as saying they do,I couldn't cause I don't know. But

anybody wfh-s got to be out of their mind to even fool with


P: Is there any drug problem at Faulkner?

S: Well, a couple, you know, sometimes down there you would here

of them smoking marijuana on campus but other than that, that

would be it. hat was very seldom.

P: What about Troy, have you heard anything from there -aboutt -'

4aAr- a drug problem?

S: No, sir, I haven't.

P: What about drinking, do young people around here drink akot?

S: Yeah. I guess they do, I mean, now even the little ones are

wanting a drink, you know,.

P: What do you mean by little ones?

S: About fourteen and fifteen, that's all. They just want to

go out and have a good time, but that's not having a good time,

at all.

A: Q; '

P: Where was this?
Fr4-Pf'r vile
A: At my school, a*-my elementary-School

a little boy named Jerry Dale and a little boy named, ah. Johnny


P: Um-hum.

A: They took beer eit- 4 -r~ S b fk -over -a

the school.

P: During school time? aLevS

A; During school 4s,.&-And they-w e telling everybody that it


was ginger ale.

P: Well, what do you think/would be something that could be

done, that young people like yourself ==*1d3i9 with educations

(What do you think the best thing you could do for the community

and your people here, what would it be?
^5 t-f. Bdc.
S: I don't have any idea/A I mean, seriously, I don't, 1ou don't

know what they want and they won't give you any idea what they want.

P: Do you like to come back here?

B: Sometimes I wonder, -.

P: Are you going to be sorry to leave next week and go back

to school?

S: No.

P: You're not? How often will you come home during the year from


S: I come home every weekend.

P:' You never stay down there all through the weekend?

S: No, sir. I come home.

P: Are you in any social clubs of any kind at school or do they

have them there?

S: No, sir. I'm not in any./ (11 I know is they have,/his, um,

basic Bible Club or something.

P: Are you in any organized athletics there?

S.i No, sir.

P: Well, what are going to be your responsibilities this

Thanksgiving as Princess? What-y-do you have any responsibilites/-4r

Helping in the Princess Contest or anything?

S: No, sir. They haven't told me anything about the Princess

Contest next year, all I know is, just, I just crown who ever

getsPrincess, and that's it.


P: Now, I know that there are several other princesses around

Georgia and Florida, how's. that supposed toy-are you over them

or what the situation with that?

S: I hadn't even heard. /A don't know. They,-all I know is I was jbn

elected/Princess of the Creek Indians east of the Mississippi and

that's it.

P: But there's nof court or anything like that?

S: No, sir. It was just te judges picked me out of thel$est.

P: What's the Junior Princess?

S: I, I really don't know, they just, I guess pick a ^ft r

title or something. I hadn't-tught since she was elected Junior


P: During this year since you've been Princess, so far, how

many things have you done, sort of, officially as Princess?

S: Officially, not any. Really, because, I just went on those

Powwowsa- Baton Rouge and that was it.

P: Was Baton Rouge the only one you went to ?

S: Yes, sir. Oh, yeah, and ni t al Crre/ls^'in Pensacola,

that one.

P: Are you going to the one in Pensacola this weekend?

S: They hadn't even not, asked me etrYdu know, nobody has told me

anything about it.

P: They haven't? Well, so being Princess doesn't mean much, hum?

S: Not like I thought it would be.

P: Well, again, what kind of things do you think it should be?

S: Well, I think the Princess should be entitled to not have to

find out from somebody else that she's supposed to do this or do that,

you know, the Chief or the Chief's wife or somebody should come

and talk to her and stuff and not let her just try to find out


what she's supposed to do from somebody else,

P Um-hum.

S; And that's really the major problem 1o-me.

Pt Have many girls spoken with you about running for Princess

this year?

S: Not any.

P; Not any. Are you going to encourage some to run?
S: ItAdoesn't do any good once they make their mind up not

to do something, they won't.

P: When you were at school last year did you tell anybody down

there you were the Princess of the Creek Nation east of the Mississippi?

S: Just about everybody knew it down there.

P: How come everybody knew it? A) h-7

S: Cause I was proud of being the Princess. l J

P: So you let 'em all know./Well, let me just turn it over to you

now4I've asked you-a lot-of specific-questions. Just say what-

ever is on your mind about'being Indian and what the Indian

community here in Atmore is like.

S: Well, to me, this community could be improved by parents

encouraging their children to go to school and not drop out, which,

not any of them do. If they.did, they'd go ahead and continue

school. A couple of parents I know said they just got through

graduating and they were going to make upytheir minds and that's

not the way to be. I mean, the parent should encourage it, but,aa4

then, I mean, the child should want to do it., So many of them

are just dropping out and when they graduate they just sit around and

not do anything;


P: Well, what does it mean to be an Indian in 1973,in Alabama?

S: Being an Indian in Alabama in 1973 is terrific because now, I

mean, people are realizing that there i Indians down here in

Alabama and, um, you know, every now and then, you'll see a

write up in the paper about the Indians doing this and

something going on for the Indians an a lot of other people,-- mean,

they act like they consider-r-I mean they're being considerate

about the Indians, but a lot of them they don't really realize it.

P: Sounds almost to me that you've gotten a kind of/boost to your

Indian pride by being in college and having people asklou

about being Indian. Is that right?

S: -The--s right cause it makes me feel good for somebody, you know,

wanting to hear about you being an Indian- Around af Atmor they

could care less, anybody.

P: But, just down at-4agrrette there's that much differences ..

S: That's true, and its not that far off, but, yet and still h

if it wasn't been for me being down there I'd never of believed


P: Now, is that strictly the college campus you're talking about

or is that the town people in Pai4tgftee, too?

S: That's the college campus and some town people.

P: Well, I hope you can encourage others to follow in your foot steps.

S: So many of them were, but you just can't keep on begging.

P: How many did you say you've talked with trying to get them to

go t school?

S: I know I've talked with Virginia and Georgia and that's all,

but there's the only ones that's gra-duated this year, yeaknow.


P: "here's no organized program within the Indian'communitele ltS1c/

-t4e=hrmie1to get people to go to college?

S: No, sir.

P: Mr Powell, is he encouraging anybody else besides yourself? Do /" .C

S: He's talked to Georgia and I think he's talked to Virginia,

but, I don't know. He talked to me about going and I said well,

I'm going, and, ah, he said if I ever needed any help, you know,

with financial situation, just to let him know.

P: You decided on your own to go, nobody talked you into it

or anything. CWouldyou have gone if you hadn't gotten Episcopal

Church help?

S: Sure.

P: Well, I'm going to ask you one more time and maybe you could

think of something this time. What is it about you, and I know

you're not the only one but, you're one of the very few that have

gone to college Whhat is it about you that has made you different

-than others, wanting to go to college?
e J '"s' 1. e-anrr
S: I guess its just--its being with my family,, you-knew, my

daddy he can't read or write and my-momma,she/doesn't have

that much education and, and, it makes me feel like i just want to

keep onand get as much as I can.

P: Sorry. Sorry. Thank you Vicky, I'm sorry I had that

extra little mess-up there.

S: That's okay.

P: And I will ah, I really think we will want to use that one,

ah, if you have another copy of it around.

S: Well, I can get a billfold copy.

SP: -o meanAyou have one oryou et one made?


S: No,Wayne's got one, I can get from him.

P: Okay, well, that might be a little bit...

End of Tape.

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