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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
CRK 45A
Mr. Hillery Colbert (C)
Interviewer: J. Paredes (I)
September 8, 1973
Typed by: P. F. Williams
I: This is September 8, 1973, and I'm talking with
Mr. Hillery Colbert at his home just outside of
Atmore, Alabama. If you could just begin by saying
when and where you were born and how you were brought
up, what yourlife was like growing up as a child.
C: Well, I was born in Huxford, Alabama, and I lived there
all my life except about eight or ten years I been
away from there. So that's about...that's the onliest
place I ever lived in my life, except just going away
a few times and coming back. I went to school in
Huxford, little old school back, I don't know how
many years back. We had to walk for miles. It was
a pretty rough road to go on.
I: Was that an all-Indian school?
C: Yeah, um-hmm.
I: Which...was it J. ,,iLL Cl School? Was that what
CRK 45A 2
it was called?
C: Yeah. Really, it was just...wasn't no schoolhouse at
that time. Just had an old white building off of
the road, you know. I mean, it was probably three
or four miles from where we used to walk. Then later
on, they/built a little old schoolhouse, you know,
just something or other throwed together, you know.
And then after they quit that, then later on then
after they/shut that little old one down and when
[fead oi Pelddo
they went...sent them over here to HedeperdioS--
you know, changed them from all over there and
started to send them all down. But I never did
go no more. I quit when I think I was about in the
fourth grade. I never did go no more.
I: You remember the names of any of the teachers at the
Indian school?
C: Well, Mrs. Moore was the onliest teacher that teached
there.
I: Lucille Moore?
C: Yeah.
I: She taught up at Huxford?
C: Yeah, uh-huh. Sie /< *
CRK 45A 3
I: And she taught at tedeprdrao too.
C: Yeah, uh-huh. AIay back years ago, now, they had a
few teachers that teached there some -tht come in
-T kYo' o "'. J
by. .all I can name are their first names. Wally
was from Montgomery. One time there was a Mrs. Dunne
teached there. She.'s from Montgomery. She reached
71 -
there a while at that little old school. Then later
'4
on there was another teacher that come there and I
can remember her name was Mrs(Dorothy Pauncy, I believe
that was the damn thing. It was a funny name. L."'
I: Did these teachers from Montgomery, did they board
with Indian families there or what?
C: No. They boarded somewhere there. I don't know
exactly where they boarded. Somewhere around Huxford
with somebody, but I really, I just don't know. But
they didn'tAsay there too long before they left.
I: Do you remember ever hearing any of the older people
up there at Huxford talking about having to pay for
teachers themselves out of their own pocket, or was
the county paying for the teachers?
CRK 45A 4
C: No. The county was. I never did hear none of them say
that they had to pay for it. The county was paying
for it.
I: Do you recall from your hearing the older people talk
at all, anything about how the schools got started
ever?
C: Well, I believe the reason that they said that that
school got off to itself like thatAthey wanted my
daddy's sister to, teach the school at that time.
fI,U4Uc being that she's a McGhee. Lynn)McGhee's
wife. And so that's how it got off to itself, I think.
That's what they said pushed it off to itself. She
wanted to teach that school herself, see. And that
was my daddy's sister, see. Lynn McGhee's wife was
my daddy's sister.
I: Who built that school when she started?
C: Uh, well, when she started there, there wasn't no
school.
I: Just a dwelling-house?
C; Yeah. No, wait, I take that back, now. I believe...
I don't remember too much about that, but I remember
CRK 45A 5
back then, I/can remember a little bit about it, up
there where Farris McGhee lived.
I: On the old Neal McGhee place?
C: Yeah. They used to, I think, have a schoolhouse way
over on the back side over there next to that swamp
over there somewhere. But I don't remember too much
about that, and I believe that's where it first got
started from. She wanted to take the school and teach
it and I think that's where they got it separated up
there. I think that's the way.
I: Well, why couldn't she teach in the other school?
C: Well, she just never did. I don't know why.
I: Now, when you went to school, did you go to school in
the Colbert Settlement?
C: Yeah, that 's right.
I: Now, why.was that called the Colbert Settlement?
C: Well, that was about all was there. I believe there
was...all that lived there was. .wasn't but two families
lived around Huxford, McGhees. No, I take that back.
Three families.
CRK 45A 6
I: Which families were those?
C: That was ete Neal McGhee family and the Ron McGhee
family and theWillis McGhee family. I believe
about three families of McGhees that all lived there,
and the rest of them was Colberts that lived there.
I: Did the Colbert settlement, was it onlIndian grant
land, or...?
C: No, no, uh-uh.
I: Who owned the land?
C: My daddy owned his place here.
I: Did he own all of the land that the Colberts lived on,
or did each family have...?
C:- tWell, no he didn't. the place we owned, it was his
Then there was another Colbert family
lived next to us. He owned his own land. Of course,
there was a lot of them...more Colberts owned land
there way back years ago in around Blueberry Hill.
They called grant land or something or other in
there, but I never did know too much about that. But
-j t+
there was a lot more land than just right in there, but
most of the Colberts that lived there livedon my daddy's
CRK 45A 7
place, you know, had houses,l you know, back then and
ii\JeCtoY'
lived on that.
I: Did you ever...now, when you say Blueberry Hill, do
you mean where that juke is now?
C: That's right, yeah.
I: Well, do you ever remember any Colberts living down
there when you were...?
C: Yeah, yeah. Right close, pretty close to that Blueberry
Hill. (Mufford Colbert used to live there long back,
way back years ago, way back. My brother married one
of his daughters. Oh, that's been back years, years.
My oldest brother, the one that lives out here at Poarch.
He married one of...
I: ?
C: Yeah, that's right. He married their oldest daughter. Ahd, -
But way back now, I can't remember enough back now,
way, way back, I can't remember that, but just hearing
my daddy now, they used to live down there theirselves
around close to Blueberry Hill. Way back, I don't even
remember, I just heard them talking about it.
I: Your daddy actually lived down there.
C: Yeah. He used to live down there, used to own that land.
CRK 45A 8
It was called old grant land-or l-\r land or something
or other I heard them talking about all that land
in there was back at that time.
I: Did you ever hear him talk about how he decided to
move to his place up here near Huxford?
C: No, I didn't.
I: Was he a farmer or woodsman or what?
C: Well, he farmed and most all his life he worked for
S:) these logging companies. jj ys Southern Lumber
Company, Log Company. He used to be foreman on their
jobs. He.used to ride for cattle, woods!to look out
for cattle and horses and stuff that's out, you know,
way back years ago.
I: Did y'all have a church at Colbert Settlement?
C: Well, they used that little old schoolhouse for a church.
Same little old school. They used to have school there
in the church.
I: What denomination was it?
C: The Free Holiness Church.
I: You remember anything about who some of the preachers
were?
CRK 45A 9
C: Yeah.
I: Who were they?
C: Wellf Mrs. Bell, she used to run a boarding house in
c r -
Huxford, used to cook for this Frisco train crews, you
know. She used to run boarding house there, cook for
this train crew. She used to preach there. Brother
Will Gold and them over in around Brewton over there,
they used to preach there, and Brother Richard Johnson.
Well, there's, oh, several different ones used to
preach there.
I: Didlyou ever remember any of the older people ever
talking about a Baptist church being there?
C: Well, yeah. This same little old place we're talking
w5ccl 40'"- (,- ,, V)
about/where they went to school and 'church, too, there.
A[ yeA, &
Way back I can remember there used to be-a Baptist, I
believe, or a Methodist...I believe it was the Methodists
used to preach there some. That's way back when I was
real small. I can remember it, but...
I: Back when you were small and when it was Methodist and
later on when it was Holiness....well, you already said
about Holiness, but do you remember whether there was
CRK 45A 10
a regular pastor when it was a Methodist church?
C: Yeah. Used to be....I don't know whether it was a
Baptist or a Methodist, old preacher from down in
Florida used to come there, I believe, about once
a month.
I: What was his name?
C: Perry, I believe it was.
I: Perry.
C: Yeah, Perry, I believe it was. Down firm some part
of Florida, used to come there.
I: Now, at church, was that like school that only Indians
would be at that church or would it...?
C: No, there'd be other people come there. Well, more
,A r'5&Ced \ d,
or less, after they turned it into a Holiness church,
well, there was about as many white people come as
there was Indians. But back, way back when they had
it as a Methodist or a Baptist--I don't remember which
it was at that time--but more or less just Indians went
there.
I: Well, I'll have to ask you specific questions. If you
could just sort of think back and remember and talk
CRK 45A 11
about the way people used to live when you were a boy
-'
and just come on up with your own life and the kind
of thin's that have changed in the way people make
their living,ithe kind of houses they liveain, every-
thing.
Wwltk-leJ
C: Yeah, that's right. Well I tell you, I have seen
times that's pretty rough. Yeah, I remember way back
years ago. oy +-e1 o_4 some rough times back
long here. My daddy, I used to hear him talk4bout
yXiA-vI. 41,q hoA
I-going to have to walk for miles. You know, people
used to have to go barefooted, you know, way back in
them days, you know, to their work, you know. They
didn't have no shoes or nothing like that, you know.
On ice, mud and water and all crap like that, you know, 0 -
I: Did people rely on hunting quite a bit to get their
food back in those days?
C: Yeah. Back then, as far back as I can remember.A.I
mean, no older than I am, pretty old, too, but back
when I can remember, there was plenty stuff you could
kill, plenty game. My daddy and them used to go off,
used to go out in the woods and kill a deer or a wild
CRK 45A 12
hog or a turkey about anytime you wanted to, you
know, back then. You know, such stuff as that.
And no further back as I can remember, you know,
they used to do that.
I: Did I ask you how old you were at the beginning of
the tape?
C:. No, I don't believe you did.
I: How old are you?
C: p Fifty-six.
I: (jL do you remember up in your area around Huxford were
there any of the old people that used to dress their
own hides, deer hides and things like that?
C: Yeah, I can remember tht a little bit.
I: Who were some people that used to do that?
C: Well, I had a uncle, my daddy's brother, he used to.
Uncle Dave Colbert. He's old. He was older than my
/tUij
daddy was. And/he used to do that, you know. All
that stuff, you know.
I: Do you remember how he did it?,,\
C: No, I don't.
I: ,,What he used?
C: I don't know. I don't remember that. But I remember
CRK 45A 13
he used to do a lot of that, you know, when they
used to dress them hides and cowhide, deerhide, goat-
hide, and all that stuff. They used to build -1_cN
-7
W o-o s you know, and bottom these old chairs,
you know, with hides, and all that, you know. Stuff
like that.
I: Did the people up your way, the old people up there,
did they make soffkee? Did you ever hearing them talking
about that?
C: Yeah, I believe I do. Yeah, I believe I do. I believe
I remember...
I: Did you ever watch any of them doing it?
C: Yeah. I believe I did. I believe they used to have o- -
seemed like to me big old /bal or something or
other. A block of something or other, had a hole in
it, you know, and put that stuff...and had a thing,
you know, to chop it up and down like that, you know.
I: And then what'd they do, boil it up after they had
it husked?
C: Yeah.. The rice, Tge 4 r&Le r6e- ruthey
used to take rice, you know, and it i cal
CRK 45A 14
a maul and it'd be a block about that high, you know,
and they'd cut in there, and then they had a thing
they'd job it up and down out there and husk that rice
out and then it was ready to cook.
I: Was the rice they grew back in those days, was it like
you see on TV over in Asia? Did they have to flood
the land when they grew rice?
C: No, No. We used to plant it. I remember we used to
plant it, you know, in fields. t 'd get up about like
that, you know, and then when it got ready to cut,
you know, you took one of them ol rice hooks or
something or other, you know, and cut it down like that,
you know, and then bundle it up, you know.
I: But it would just grow on dry land.
C: Yeah, yeah.
I: You wouldn't have -6 (-P66(d f aIna -
C: No, uh-uh. Naw, we used to grow a lot of rice.
I: Well, what were the main...besides rice, what were
some of the other main crops that people grew that...?
CRK 45A 15
C: Well, about the biggest thing was, besides that rice,
was corn and peas and sweet potatoes and, you know,
stuff like that. That was about the biggest thing.
I: Did many of your people up there do any cotton farming?
C: Yeah, way back years ago. My daddy, he used to grow
a good little bit of cotton. Not too much neither,
not too much.
I: Did many of the people around the Huxford area work, /
on halves or work sharecropping?
C: Well, old man Neal McGhee was about the onliest man
that had enough land to sharecrop.
I: But he had other people....?
C: Yeah, he had people living...
I: Did some of your family work for him?
C: No. Well, I used to help him, you know, pick cotton c
he I)a/
and work around like that. But he had right smart of
land up there andAhe had some tenant houses on his
place, you know, and they farmed on halves, you know,
and stuff like that.
I: Were those white people that were tenants for him?
CRK 45A 16
C: Yeah, um-hmm.
I: Now, one thing in the Poerch area I've heard a lot
of people talk about, this would be after you'd probably
gotten up to be quite a...almost grown man or even
later, used to go outAin field crews working different
places. Did many people from Huxford do that?
C: Yeah, yeah. They used to do that. That's right.
I: How far away would they go working in the fields?
C: Wellthey'd go sometimes five, six, seven, ten miles,
you know.
I: Did any of them ever get into hauling hands themselves?
C: No, just worked forhother people.
I: How about going off to...like some of these in PoSrch
has done, like going off to Wisconsin?
C: No, they never did do nothing like that. dh-uh, they
never did do nothing like that.
I: Well, when was the period when...I notice how there's
hardly any Indian folks living up at Huxford anymore
like ...
C: Well, there's two families. Farris McGhee and Noah McGhee.
CRK 45A 17
I: When did most all of those people move out of there?
C: Well, they just got the...as the years come on up,
.-j'srt-
they just got to drifting out of there and just moving
away from there.
I: About how long ago was that?
C: Well, I don't hardly know.
I: Say, like when all the houses were...I've been by
the Colbert Settlement and no houses left there now.
C: It's been.4.oh, I'd say when they started moving away
from up there, really leaving there, it's probably been,
oh, I'd say around thirty-five years. About thirty-
five years. ke about as old as that oldest boy
of mine is. About thirty-five years.
I: That's when you yourself moved away, or...?
C: Yeah, along in there. When I left here and went to
Louisiana, long about then.
I: Let me ask you one more thing about the old days in
the Colbert Settlement and then move on to other things.
That cemetery up there that's all grown up now, was
that strictly an Indian cemetery at one time?
C: Yeah, I think. But there's a few...I think there's
a few white people buried there. I heard my daddy
CRK 45A 18
talking about some of them Lomax's was buried there.
Of course, now, they was Indian;-they had Indian in
them, too, but they never did go with the Indians.
But I think there's some of them buried there. There's
a few white people buried there.
I: ;s that land still owned by some of the Colbert or
McGhee families?
C: No. I tell you, I really don't know just how it is.
It was land. .they bought there was give for a grave-
yard and the people that used to own that land was
-;A
(Nawsers, where that there hard-sell church is there.
I: Right across the street?
C: Yeah, there's a hard-sl1 church there. Well, I think
they- H-H'ea f rreC-4o04 l-' that graveyard and what
there is, but them hard-sell church people, they just
kept backing up out there on the graveyard side, you
know, keeping it clean, youkiow, until jft/just got
way on out there on it. But there's more of that
land goes with the graveyard than what there is.
I: When there were a lot of your people living up there,
did y'all keep the cemetery up?
C: Yeah. They used to keep it up. Way back years ago,
CRK 45A 19
they used to keep it up pretty good. Sure did. I
remember back...well, what happened back years ago,
they used to set these old flowers out on the graves.
Them old ones boy, if you ever get them started, you
can't hardly stop them.
I: What kind of flowers were those?
C: I don't know what you call the thing, but...
I: Were they big?
C: They have a lot of red flowers on them, you know.
They'll grow up there. If you ever get them started
in a place you can't hardly do nothing with them, just
cut them down, well, they come right back out again.
That's what they used to do there. If somebody died,
they'd set some of them old flowers arouAd the grave,
you know, so eventually that graveyard just got solid.
Just solid flowers with them old high bushes, you know,
there. They went in there onetime, they cut all that
stuff out of there. I mean, cut every bit of it out.
And they kept it up there, but after everybody got to
moving away from there till they just never did care
nothing about it a'tall. I got four sisters buried
there.
CRK 45A 20
I: I've walked through there just a little bit one day
with F__r_'s .
C: Yeah.
I: I didn't see many headstones. Were there...?
C: No, there's just a very few in there. There's just
a few. I went up there here...well, my boy was in
here...well, you know, when we come out hre -n that
Saturday, that boy of mine from Mississippi, we went
up there. We went WOte OV (-Hnte( br'crs, you
can't hardly drive over. We went out through there,
and there's a few headstones there. Most of what's
there is McGhees that's got headstones on them. You
know, when they died, you know, way back years. But
there ain't but a very few in there.
I: Whely'all used to bury people there, did they mark
the graves in any way?
-allC Wel a ty-d
C: Well, all they done was put flowers on and then drove
7
a(stob down to each end of the grave. That was all
they done. That was all they ever done.
I: Did y'all have the custom up there of sitting up with
the dead like...?
C: Yeah. People used to do that, you know.
CRK 45A 21
I: t{, Would they do it in their house or the church?
C: Yeah, in the house.
I: Uh-huh.
yc jiWtf
C: Back then, they neverAdid carry-nobody to the
church. You know, if somebody died, you know, well,
they kept them out there to the house, you know, got
them fixed and everything. And then they got ready
to bury them, then, well, back then they didn't have
no transportation. YL o(rw people had to haul them
to the graveyard on a mule and wagon. I remember used
to haul them...I've seen them haul them from/,ut yonder
below Pdarch...and, well,/there never was none hauled
flma of Pcrd;do
from Huxford down to this Hedeperdido grave because
they had a grave up there. But I've seen them haul
them fromA/out there below Pobrch--Bell Creek, they
call it out there--haul them in on mule wagons _
over yonder to HLdo 4peddo graveX because that was
the onliest grave there was. Then haul them from
there down to that grave at Hog -Fe down there. I've
seen them haul them way back there.
I: Was there any particular person up in the Huxford area
that prepared the dead for burial?
CRK 45A 22
C: Well, there's a...there was a few, you know, of them
old heads, you know, mostly, you know, at ,Ltd
-r' Back then, they had to make their own coffin,
you know. They built them theirselves. If somebody
died, you know, well, somebody don't count on -_i
oid A.CA you know, Wo 61 T They'd probably,
if they didn't have the lumber around the house to
build it out of, well, they'd probably go to Atmore
way back years ago and get lumber there. But a lot
of times back then, they had good lumber, you know,
back in them days and around-them old people had good
lumber, you know, that has around the house, you know,
some stacked up, been there for years. Good hard
lumber. Well, if somebody had some, maybe if I had
some over yonder, they'd go over there and get it,.
you know, and get enough to build that casket out of,
you know. And then they'd line it, you know, with
some kind of cloth or something or other like that,
you know, and they buried them right in the box, you
see.
I: tAido you ever remember--I've heard one or two people
say something, but only a couple-one person actually--
CRK 45A 23
a time when they would bury somebody and then say
the funeral maybe a month or so later. Do you ever
remember that ever happening?
C: 4M No, I don't remember nothing about that, I don't
believe.
I: Well, one more thing about the old days. Do you ever
remember any of the old people that even knew a few
words of the Indian language? Any of them ever...?
C: No, I sure don't. I don't know....
I: They always just spoke English?
C: That's right. I never knowed....I ain't never knowed
none, as old as I am and as far back as I can remember,
I ain't never remember nobody odo, Sure ain't.
I: OK. What I'd like for you to do now, if you could,
if you could just start with the first time you...
well, maybe start with when you got married and moved
away from the settlement up there-all the different
places you've lived in and the different kinds of
work that you've done a_1? kce ex '_ .
C: Yeah. Well, I say I moved away from there, it's been
,LAUi
about thirty-five years. And I first went from there
to Louisiana. I lived out there for, I don't know, two
CRK 45A 24
or three years. And when I come back from there, then
I come back to McCullough up here.
I: What kind of work did you do in Louisiana?
C: I had my own trucks in this stumpwood business. And
thenafter I come back from Louisiana then, I moved
from there to Evergreen, Alabama. Up ate-eM (PjtJSSc -
they call it, a little old town up.. rAt+ e-od Ever-
green up there. Stayed up there about a couple of years,
and then I...
I: What kind of work were you doing there?
C: Same thing. Same stumpwood there.
I: Were you still dynamiting the stumps at that time?
C: Yeah, that's right. Sure was. We were dynamiting
them back then. Then I stayed up theita couple o
years and I moved frDomthere then back to Huxford.
Come back to Huxford again. Then the last move I
made, then, from there, well, at that time when I
left Huxford me and my wife separated then. Well,
when I left here then, from Huxford I come to Atmore.
When I left Atmore, well, I went to Georgia.
I: Still inAstumpwood?
C: Yeah, still in stumpwood. Then I left Georgia in
CRK 45A 25
the same stumpwood and then went to Florida. Okeechobee,
Florida.
I: Sow did you learn the stumpwood business? How did you
get into that?
C: Well, when I was living in Huxford there, there was a
man there....that's way back when they had to-dynamite
it. Wasn't no bulldozers then. They was drilling it
with augers, you know, and shooting it down to the ground.
I first started with a man from ay lre e-. ,_
John Marsh, he used to live up there at Huxford. And
working with him. We started to work for him, well,
we was making a dollar and a quarter a day. A dollar
and a quarter a day, that's from daylight to dark.
Well, we worked there a long time for that and the5 r,
later on then, well, Mr. Alexander--he's up in
Georgia and Florida, he's got two big outfits--he
lived over at McCullough. Well, I was about eighteen
years old, I reckon, when I got married. And I used
to ride a bicycle fim Huxford to McCullough _i iL
morning to work for a dollar and a quarter a day.
I'd have toleave sometimes about three o'clock in
the morning to get down there:early enough to catch
CRK 45A 26
them before they left. See, they used to leave
burning lights going out and burning lights coming
in. And back then didn't have no black-top roads.
Old wet muddy road a lot of times, and boy, I'd have
trouble fighting that bicycle down them muddy roads,
you know, before daylight. Had a little old light
on the tront, you know, it's a little old LCf` t<
light, you know, bobbing down that road. Well, I
worked with him a good while for a dollar and a quarter
an hour...a day. It wasn't too long after I started,
right after I got married, and it wasn't too long,
though, after we was getting a dollar and a quarter
a day, well, the wage and hour law come in force,
you know. Two bits an hour. Well, that jumped us
up two dollars a day. 44ere getting two dollars a
day, see, for eight hours work, then. Well, later
on, then, well, I was more or less then working with
the shooting bunch, you know, shooting h "'-<
and all that. Later on, then I went to driving a
truck, and we'd get ninety cents a load. I went
to driving a truck for ninety cents a load.
I: The driver got ninety cents.
C: Yeah. To haul that wood and stack it in them boxcars.
CRK 45A 27
We used to have to stack it in them old boxcars just
as long as we could get a piece up in there, see.
Fill it up all the way, back, then out in the door,
4 j5+j (-L A4o
stack it up in there. And we had to do it by our-
selves. They furnished us a man and the wood to
help us load the truck, but when we got loaded we
had to go in by ourselves and tote that whole load
of wood oft by ourselves and stack it in that boxcar.
I: Not a flatcar, but a boxcar-with a roof?
C: Boxcar, yeah. One of them big high boxcars. And we
had to stack that thing just as long as we could get
a piece of wood up in it. Just fill the tops and
everything, just flat full. Well, we had to get
thirty-five ton in it. That was our limit on it,
was thirty-five tons. We had to get thirty-five ton
in there, in that car.
I: Weil, were there a lot of places around here where
there were loading stations to put the wood on, or
was there one particular place?
C: Well, well, no. They had several places. You could
load at Huxford, McCullough, Freemanville, or Atmore.
CRK 45A 28
That was the closest places back then that you could wcrk--
load that wood.
I: Did you ever do much stumpwooding right around the
C: Yeah. All that land in there going out to...well, I
done some right in around PoBrch, but going out that
Jack Spring Road....you know, out there where all them
Mennonite people is? All that land in there?
I: Um-hmm.
C: We stumped all that land out there.
I: Were there any ot the folks that were living at Heduperdido
or Hog-obrt who were doing stumpwood business at that
time'
C: There wasn't none of them people in the stumpwood
business.
I: None of them.
C: No.
I: You know, I'd never heard any of them...
C: No, uh-uh.
I: ....except real old ones talking about when they were
clearing the land.
C: Oi4. No, there wasn't none ot them people ever was in the
stumpwood. All the Indians was in any stumpwood was
CRK 45A 29
up around Huxford up there. Them people all down
there was paperwooders.
I: Now, I was just getting ready to ask you, did you
have any paperwooders up there where you were?
C: No, there wasn't no paperwooders up there.
I: What-makes for the difterenceY
C: I don't know.
I: ,)z!i o they cut paperwood in the Huxford area?
C: Well, now they do, but way back years they didn't.
Way back years ago, all them people around Poarch
and Hedoperdido out there, mostly paperwood cutting.
They had to go away from here to do it. Well, they
was putting it on in Bay Minette andrLoxley andc-.
Stapleton, and all Io r/'^-.y 0of "thr .
I remember I worked some down there one time. I ici--
used to go down with some of them boys from around
PoBrch way back years ago, and we'd lodd it over there
on that road going in to Pensacola, you know, on the
river over there on a barge over there.
I: Is that the (Sticks)River?
C: Yeah, Sticks River, that's right. And we were cutting
up paperwood for fifteen cent a pen.
CRK 45A 30
I: A pen.
C: A pen.
I: Now, what's a pen?
C: Well, that took five.racks for a cord. What's called -
they pen it up just like...we had to rack it up just
like you's building a hog pen. Six foot high. Just
made a round pen, you know, stacked it up just like
we was going to build a hog pen to put a hog in. Four
sides to it and built it up six foot high.
I: And that was a pen.
C: That was a pen.
C: That's right. And you had to have five of them to
make you a cord. And we just got fifteen cent a pen.
-Prr
I: For stacking them or cutting them?
C: For the whole cord. When we cut a cord of wood we
had fifteen cent a pen.
I: I see.
C: That was...each pen got fifteen cent for it.
I: So that would make you(seventy-five cents a cord.
C: Yeah, that's right. That's what we'd get.
CRK 45A 31
I: And you cut it and stacked it?
SC: Stacked..-... .. .. ....................
........................................ ........
I: I was asking you, you said you got fifteen cents a pen,
that makes seventy-five cents a cord.
C: Right.
I: And those-were right out in the...
C: Right out in the...
I: Right out in the woods, then the trucks would come-pick
it up. OK, you were starting to say something about...
you said way back...
C: Uh, way back years ago, I was talking about Huxford,
there used to be a lot of people that lived there. Well,
Huxford, that bunch of people up there was kind of dif-
ferent from these people here at Poarch. At Huxford
they didn't have too much to do with them, we didn't.
I just here for the lae five, six or ten
years since me and my wife \UIl-.. .there's half of them
people out in that country I don't even know.
I: In Poarch, you mean. i
C: That's right. Out in that country. and.some of them
CRK 45A 32
arTrr kin-people that I don't even know, but we just
never did associate with them people down in that
country.
I: Have any idea why that was?
C: 'I don't know, it was just in a...well, in another place,
too. Now, out there the other side of Podrch, there
used to be a thick settle of people lived there. Bell
Creek.
I: Um-hmm.
C: 4ow, that bunch, they was to theirselves. More or less
there was a bunch in there that 4ci ws -w-
They didn't associate with them people at Podrch or
Hog Fert-or Hedepeeddo over there. They was more or
less -to theirselves just like we was to Huxford up
yonder, see. We was more or less to ourselves and we
didn't know nothing about them people down in-that
country.
I: Were there hard feelings between those groups?
C: No, no. Just...just we never was used to that, never
did 0 tlvroi I or have anything to do with
them. And I had my uncles, they was my uncles down in
CRK 45A: 33
there. Them Walkers, all of them. Fred Walker and
them, all them, he was my mama's brother. All those
Walkers down there was my mama's brothers, them Walkers.
But we just never did go about them down in that
country.
I: Now, I have heard some people say there used to be a
time years ago when they would sort of go from one
church to another. One Sunday they might be at this
church, everybody'd get together and they'd have a
dinner on the ground and maybe a...do you remember
any of that going on?
C: Well, the onliest thing...dinners, well now, they
used to do that, now, at Huxford. I remember.way back
years ago they used to have big dinners, you know, on
certain times of the month, you know. And down there
where I was talking about at Bell Creek, now, there
used to be a lot of people live out there at Bell
Creek.. They used...
I: Would people go from Huxford to Bell Creek for dinner?
C: Yeah, sometimes they would and sometimes they wouldn't.
But there used to be a lot of people there, and they
CRK 45A 34
used to have big dinners at-Poarch. I remember a
few times I had went to Poarch, you know, as I got
older. Reason back then, as we was growing up, why,
we didn't know nothing about them people down there,
see. Knew we had kin-people down there, all down
there. Reckon all of them's kin to us, but we just...
when we was raised up, growing up, we just never did
go visit nobody in that country down there.
-elcd
I: When you were growing up, did y'all visit with white
people very much?
C: Well, around Huxford, yeah. Around Huxford there.
A lot of people there.
I: Would they ever come to your dinners?
C: Yeah. They'd. a lot of them come. Sure would. A
lot of them come to dinners.
I: Well, in general, how did the white people and the
Indians get along together years ago up there?
C: Well, at Huxford, now, they didn't get along. I
mean, what I mean, they didn't...nobody never had
no trouble, fighting or nothing like that. The people,
there was some good people. The only thing there was,
CRK 45A 35
they didn't want the Indians going to their school.
And no Indians never did go to their school, till
Calvin broke it up. He's the man you have to give
credit for it. It it hadn't been for Calvin they'd
probably have been ota ) everywhere else just
like it's always been.
I: Before he got started, were there any indians who
tried to go toAHuxtord school?
C: b(ifio, there wasn't.
I: They never tried...
C: Never did try. But after Calvin, after Calvin got
into it and got that thing started, then I moved
back trom, from, uh...I was the first one ever sent
-fo "'ltCu-lI Et
one et-my-eeoor That boy of mine, Jerry--you know
him, don't you?
I: Um-hmm [attirmative].
C: j.g. YaL LC[s Fil& '
C: _ik ft c
C: Well, he was about, I don't know, six or seven, eight
years old, I reckon. But I moved back from Louisiana
to McCullough and stayed with my brother, so I sent
him to school in McCullough.
CRK 45A 36
I: And this was after Calvin started?
C: Yeah, after Calvin got started. I sent him, and
Lynn Presswood was the principal out there. On
the boa-d and everything out there. /I was staying
with my brother. And so, I was at my brother's
house one night, so he come to my brother's house.
He wouldn't talk to me, he was scared to talk to
me. And my brother was easy-going. You've probably
heard a lot or people talk. He never harmed nobody,
never talked hard to nobody, but I was always different
from that. I reckon I'm the onliest one in the family
that's like that. But he wouldn't talk to me. He
come out there and wanted to see Claude--that's my
brother--wanted me not to send Jerry back to school
down there because he was Indian. They didn't want
him in their school. But I sent him right on back.
They never did stop it.A then I left there and I
moved back to Huxford. And I started him up there.
And they had sent a tew back from 'Huxford school
up here, wd I-LL-fc{ / _______ ,_
I believe it was a couple 6 -- _--
CRK 4_A 3/
here and they sent them back trom up there one tite.
And so after I moved back up there then I was living
on the man's place, his boy, he was trustee up there.
Ollie Palmer. And they was pretty nice people, and
a fellow, (1LSO/ was principal. So Jerry,
he was getting up pretty good size, so...
I: About what years was this, now?
C: Well, I really don't know. I couldn't say. It was...
Ii In the fifties, or...?
C: No, it was....I imagine, I say it was back in. .well,
I left here going to Louisiana, I believe, in '47. I
stayed over there about a couple of years and come
back here. I'd say around '49, along in there some-
where. But I sent him to Huxford school. Wasn't
no other Indians going up there. I sent him up there.
Well, they didn't say an IAy. word. Ollie
f|;s .-- S 4 ~d
"Palmer knew me. I was living on his daddy's place.
And so, I went up there and told Ollie Palmer, I says,
"I tell you what I'll do. I'll give you twenty-five
dollars if you send him back." He said, "I ain't
gonna send him back." And I was mad, too, you know.
CRK 45A 38
So one day I was in Atmore and I run into the principal
down there, Nelson. He'skpretty nice guy. I told
Nelson, I said, "I'm sending Jerry. Jerry's going to
school up there." And I said, "I offered Ollie
Palmer twenty-five dollars to send him back home."
Nelson said, "Hillery, you know good and well I'm
not gonna send Jerry back home., You know I'm not
gonna send him back home." I said, "Well, I'm just
telling you in time." And they never did say anything
about that. He's the first one that went there and
stayed, too.
I: in other words, you said you were gonna give him twenty-
five dollars...-'
C: Yeah, I uj&-io __ pay. I said, "I'll give you
twenty-five damn dollars if you send him back home.
I know$what he's gonna get it he sent him back home.
I told him. He said, "I'm not gonna send him back
home." And Jerry's the first one that ever went to that
Huxford school that stayed.
I: But you took him out of McCullough school?
C: Yeah, we moved from there back to Huxtord.
CRK 45A 39
I: And they didn't want him in McCullough school.
C: Nope, they didn't want him.4-o o
I: Let me ask you something now. lerry's not a par-
ticularly dark person.
C: No, no. Jerry's not....
I: What would be the reason why they didn't want him 4o s0oo -
to go to school?
C: I don't know, just because he went as Indian, I
reckon. That's what it was, all I know about it.
I: But you were mad enough you would have punched
him out, huh? Cl ^cklU
C: I tell you/ axr that ight i T -mr dumb for them to
have sent him backA I tell you now, I'd done got
mad about the thing. I knowed doggone well that's
the way we had been treated up there all our...I
lived there all my life, and that's the reason I
ain't got no education today. I ain't got very
much. I quit school when I was about fourth grade,
fourth or ifth grade. dcl
I: Let me ask you something. Why did it take. .what
were the reasons that it took men of your generation
CRK 45 40
to do that rather than some of the older ones. Why
didn't some ot the older ones years betore....'
C: c' I can't understand that. Jl really can't understand
it. That's what.
I: Did they ever talK about wanting it to be difterentY
C: Yeah, they talked about it but they never did do
a. a4Ii cr 'j,
nothing about it. And another thing' Archie McGhee,
one ot Neal McGhee's boys, he was educated. Stayed
in the Army tor years and years, and he married a
girl in New York. And he come back from New York
there one time, come back to his daddy's. And he
had a daughter, pretty good size, I don't know how
hr- tIe-
old. But he sent her out there. boy, they knowed
not to send her back. Archie McGhee, they knowed him,"
boy. They knowed what he'd do, 1 And they didn't send
her back.
I: jL nd that was before calvin started.
C: Yeah, that was before Calvin started. But back in
them years, I'll tell you what happened. Now, Neal
McGhee's boys, ail his boys, Neal McGhee was pretty
smart' And he was a man that, back in them hard days,
CRK 45A 41
I reckon was about the onliest old Indian that had
anything, that made anything. Back then he was
a big contractor on these big companies, log jobs,
back y -n4j L.Jtc, & (1 run a grade through
all such as that. But ne was driving a big Buick
automobile, old Buicksback in them days when other
people couldn't afford a mule wagon. And they
knowed him pretty well around Huxtord. They didn't
push him a'talli Now, them boys of his, his daughter...
well, he has, see, there was one, two...there was
-hr
tour boys and one girl. And he sent his young'uns
to Uriah. That's where they got their education.
They all got good education. All them boys of Neal
McGhee's got good educations. TheyAused that big
automobile to go to Uriah to school over there. They
didn't fool with Huxford over here. They'd go to
Uriah and that's where they got their education.
Uriah. At Uriah, now, the Indians could go to school
over there. They went over there just like they're
going everywhere else now.
I: Wd Q as Jerry, then, the first Colbert to ever go to school'
CRK 45A 42
C: Jerry's the first one that ever went to that school.
Huxtord school up there. And he's the first one that
ever'went to McCullough school. But they damn sure
didn't send him back.
I: Were your parents and grandparents just scared at
what would happen, or what?
C: Well, I just don't know. Back;..old people, now,
they was mean people. These old people back in
them days was mean, but I don't know how they just....
they just never would do nothing about that school
business. Nobody never would do nothing about it.
They just wouldn't do nothing about it. Of course, t-
not that they was scaredA nothing like that, because
them people back in them days would kill you.
I: Speaking of that, did y'all ever used to....back when
you were a little boy, did the grownups ever have any
or those real rough frolics I've been hearing about?
C: Oh, yeah. Man, that used to be the 4. Lp there,
old man Neal McGhee used to have one about every
Saturday night up there. I was pretty small. I used
to go some, you know. And all down there around rovrch,
CRK 4-A 43
now boy, that* used to be 4c o00-o down there.
I teit you, old -e s e- used to have trolics
over there, boy, all night long. That old /_k---
just below where Houston lived down there, where
his grandmama lived, you know used to lived there.
Old house back there. Old, you know, wood house.
I: Yeah.
U: boy, they used to have them there all night long.
Start *c go till the next morning.
i: And people trom Huxtord would come down tor those.
C: Yeah, yeah. That's right, people back then would
go to them trolics every...they used to have them
all over that whole country back there.
_;,
I: Did many white tolks come to thoseY
C: Yeah, there was some come. Sure was.
I: One thing I was going to ask you about before. Aiave
there ever been many colored people living around
HuxtordY
C: No. Not...well, yeah,"2ro. From way back years
agoover there the other side ot Huxford used to be
a big turpentine business over there. Now there was
CRK 45A 44
a lot of colored/ithere. They had quarters over there.
but that was the onliest place any lived. Had them
quarters over there, and I don't know of another family
living nowhere else. They had them quarters and I reckon
there was probably a hundred families.
I: Did the Indians have any dealings with them of any kind?
C: Yeah, well, some of the Indians worked there. Used to
work there.
I: How'd they get along?
C: They got along with them good. They sure did. They got
along. There was some good colored people there. _I_
4-laC cf lr / my brother-in-law, he used to work
for that company there and they lived there, too, you know.
They handsome nice houses, you know, for white people
to live in, and my brother-in-law, he's a white man.
I: Um-hmm.
C: And they lived there. Well, there was a lot of families
lived there, you know. They had nice, pretty-nice houses
for them.- Had a big commissary, you know, and all that
stuff. And they used to have mules and wagons, you know,
to go in the woods and haul that turpentine to the still,
CRK 45A 45
you know, where they distilled it and got that tur-
pentine out and rosin and all such as that.
,iVA C l i'.i
I: But the Indians in the Colbert settlement and on the
Neal McGhee place, they worked in turpentine too, like
the people down at Poarch.
C: That's right, that's right. That's what they done.
Neal McGhee, that's practically all he done. Used
to work in them big turpentine camps, all that stuff
like that. That's what he done.
I: But getting back to your moves and your life, when
you came back here just recently you came back from
Florida?
C: From Okeechobee.
I: Uh-huh. I wonder if you could, like we were talking
the other day, if you could talk a little bit about
the experiences you've had with the Seminole Indians
down there.
: -well, I ain't had too much experience with them. I
mean, I went around a few of them places down there,
you know,'and they...because I couldn't speak their
CRK 45A 46
language they said I wasn't no Indian, you know. I
had several of them tell me down there that...
I: Did you have any of them ask you what you were?
C: Yeah, they asked. I said, "I'm a Creek Indian."
"No, you ain't no Indian"--because they could speak
English, too, see. Some of them, too. T koc(
-Ac [e ----- -- says, "What
kind of Indian are you?" I says, "I'm a Creek."- I4 s-yS
"No, you ain't no Indian. "fou can't even speak
Indian." But I hadn't never talked with too many
of them, you know.
I: You have worked doing some logging and this kind of
7- r
thing on their reservation, or/not?
C: Yeah. Well, this stumpwood business.. now, down there...
them Indians down there on that place down there, they,
them Seminoles, right in there where we were, they own
fifty-five thousand acres. Belongs to them, too. Don't
belong to nobody else. The government bought it for them
and they paid the government back and now it belongs
to them. And boy, they got some of the finest timber
you ever looked at. Like this pure heart timber. Well,
CRK 45A 47
this company, Herculee Powder Company, they wanted
to buy a carload of it from them, from the Indians
on the reservation.
I: Was it Brighton Reservation?
C: Yeah. And they wanted to buy a carload of this heart
pine from them, you know. A carload, they just wanted
one carload. And they wanted to takeqand experiment
I LI Lh
on it and grind it up in Brunswick, Georgia, to see
what they could get out of it, to see if it would go
to the same thing as this stumpwood, you know, lighter
wood. And that's what they wanted with it, so they
bought a carload of it from them. We went down and
cut it on their land, old big heart pine like that.
Pure old heart. None of this little old sap an
_here. And we loaded
a carload, the first carload...well, the onliest car-
load we got, we put forty-five ton on it. That's what
went on the car, and we shipped it to Brunswick, Georgia.
And they grind it up just like they did that stumpwood
and they wanted to run it through the mill and cook it
CRK 45A 48
and see what it would turn out. See if it would
reduce to the same thing that stumpwood will. And
that was the oJNA time we ever went on it.
I: But other than just occasionally running into Seminoles
you never had much contact?
C: No. No, uh-uh. Just other than running into a few
of them at some bar or someplace like that. Well,-L -u-
we did. ihey got-.-.we went out there several times.
They had their own rodeos out there, you know. They
got big rodeos out there. We went out there, and boy,
they really have a rodeo! They got a good one. And
Lord, they got some out there that can ride! Them
little old bitty boys eight and nine years old ride
them bulls just like a grown person would.
of
I: Well, being of Indian descent yourself but not ever
growing up on a reservation or anything like that,
just growing up out like anybody else, how do you
feel about the reservation Indians now that you've
had some opportunity to be close to that scene down
there in Florida?
CRK 45A 49
C: Well, I don't know. The way that I see it, I think
Davq1";2 -- 4r-c
I'd rather be just like I am.' They're/fxed up
pretty nice down there. In one place, though...that
Brighton out there, they got that, and then"over there
around Moore Haven they got another big reservation.
That's where we cut the timber off. But they got
several down there, more than that on down in them
Everglades, you know, places down in there. But,-(
they're particular with that land, now. Boy, we
went out there to cut that land and they got a...well,
there's more or less, they got a man that leads them,
a white man, you know, that sees after them. JHes tfl- 1-C
got an office over there, you see, butnhe's got some-
times two or three of them Indians, you know, that
watches out for that timber and the land things, jeeps
and things, you know. We was out there cutting that,.,
dor' '-
timber. I don't reckon this guy knew we was out there,
you know, one of them big Indians, seen somebody coming
in a jeep, he drove right out in the woods where we
was cutting them big trees,had a big German Shepherd
i Ad i emnSehr
CRK 45A 50
in his car and the old dog jumped out and come
barreling over there toward me, and I'm scared of
that son of a gun. He's liable to bite me. IThat
old boy, he said, "What y'all trying to do? Cut
all my timber?' Se~e, they had got permission through
the leader to cut it, you see...
I: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
C: ...but he didn't know it, I reckon.
I: Was he mad?
C: Well, he acted like it when he first drove up but
he was all right when he found out, you know, that
we'd got permission from the leader, you know, to
cut the.-timber, you know. He was all right.
I: Living down there in South Florida, has anybody ever
from your appearance taken you to be a Cuban or any-
thing?
C: No, no. Nobody. N6,1ly.
I: But you say some of the Indians, just by looking at
you, thethought you might be Indian?
C: GU Well, they didn't know. What they said, like I said,
they...all they said, you know, they saidA wanted to
CRK 45A 51
know what kind of Indian I was. And I'd tell them
and they'd say, "Well, you ain't no.Indian. You're
no Indian. You don't even speak Indian."
I: Did you say anything back to them about that?
C: I said, "Well, that's what I'm supposed to be." Jo
I: But do you feel like you'd rather have things the way
they are than to have a big government reservation?
J7 +1,:rll- yjsrflvw 1c* ; 0-'
C: Yeah, I think I rather stay like I am. A fellow
told me, our woodsman down there, our bossman on
that land down there, he lives over there at Moore
Haven, and he said that reservation down there govern-
ment's built on most of them a lot of nice houses, you
know, on plenty of them, and a lot of them won't live
in nothing else but them little old cabbage huts...
I: Um-hmm.
C: ...covered over with them old palmettos and all like
that. And l said when they first moved them in them
fine government houses some of them built fires in
the middle of the floor. LA"h '3
I: They just didn't know any better?
C: They didn't know no better. But see, t, ri'-- i y i( ce
CRK 45A 52
then Indians, them Indians down there, they used to
have their own schools.
I: Um-hmm.
C: On that Brighton out there they used to have their
own schools out there. But they changed that up now
and they won't let them have it no more. They got to
send the Indians to the white schools. They won't
let them have no schools h'r They didn't like
that too much.
I: They didn't like being sent to the white schools.
C: No, they didn't like that.
I: That'sksort of the opposite of the way people around
here were.
C: That's right. And that's the reason most of the young
ones down there, since they been going to these white
schools down there, a lot of them now or most of them, uw
they gant talk English, you see. That's more or less
is what they done for them. But them older heads, most
of them, they can't talk no English a'tall.
I: You can't even do business with them.
C: No, you can't even know what they're talking about.
CRK 45A 53
I: How do you feel about the closing of the Indian school
at Porch a few years ago?
C: Well, I really don't know. I think...I reckon, I reckon,
in a way I reckon it was a pretty good thing of it, I
think.
I: Do you have any feelings about what ought to be done
with that school in the future?
C: No, I don't. I really don't. Had that meeting out
there, you know, used to, you know, was trying to get
everybody to donate what they was going to get back
thirty dollars on the school. Well, I got over on the
side that give it back to them. That was thirty dollars
and all put that together would do more good than just
getting it. Thirty dollars to spend out there wouldn't
be worth nothing.
I: Well,whether that thirty dollars or the schoolhouse
or whatever, do you think there's any reason or is ;'
there a good idea at all for the Indian people to try
and do something together as a group?
C: Yeah, I do. I really do. I think that's a good deal.
I: Well, you know, I know some people seem like they really
CRK 45A 54
don't...I guess a lot of people that have moved away, T -
I hear, at least that they're not too interested in
keeping up anything Indian. iWhat advantages are in
doing that, do you think, to keep some kind of...I
don't know, some kind of community center or whatever?
C: Yeah, that's right. Well, it just makes it...go ahead,
help yourself. And that way, it looks like to me, it
helps out in there where they'll have somewhere for
them to go and everybody to come together and all, you
know, like that, you know, and have what they want
to have in a place like that, you know,6"- think it's
a good thing.
I: Now, you yourself have really been out in the world
a lot T yVt-'A -
7-
C: Yeah, I've been around. Right, a lot.
I: (,C(IJihat brings you back here?
C: Well, really, I reckon really what brought me back, I
reckon I was born and raised here and it's just my
old home. Just wanted to come back here, I reckon.
That's all I know about it.
I: Do you plan on staying here T/// you retire now, or
CRK 45A 55
what?
C: Well, I reckon I'll be here as far as I know right on,
I reckon, unless something happens, you know. Of course,
I didn't come back here for the money because -I can
make more money in other places than I can here.
I: Are you still doing stumpwood?
C: No, I ain't doing nothing now since I had a heart
attack. I had a heart attack about ten months ago, so
I ain't done nothing. heti 1- uo down in Florida
and I ain't done nothing since.
I: Are you getting Social Security?
C: Disability, disability.
I: Disability. ,Were you ever in the Army or anything?
7 v bcS C rk'i /
C: Uh,4no. I never was in the Army. I was back in the...
I used to be in the CC's. Way back years...thirty
dollars a month. About the same thing as the Army, it AS
just a branch off the Army is all it was. It was the
same thing.
I: Y'all lived off in a barracks-like, or...?
C: Yeah, they had barracks out there.
I: Where'd you go to CCC camp?
CRK 45A 56
C: I was in Kingston, Tennessee. That's where I was
at.
I: And that was back in the thirties, or...?
C: Yeah, um-hmm. Back then.
I: How'd you like it?
C: I liked it pretty good after...when I first went,
now, I didn't like it. If I'd had a way to...had
any money to got away from there, I think I would
have left there that next day after I got there,
after I got up in them mountains up in there. Boy,
I'm telling you the truth. Oooh! They/shipped
us from Kingston over here -e Anniston, Alabama.
That's where we shipped out from. Put us on a
train and met us in Kingston, Tennessee-- j4 'v,
Tennesseei where they picked us up at. And hauled
us from there to camps on trucks. Boy, that was some
rugged-looking country! If you happened to look
out of the truck, look straight up, rl Z er //,tf r 'y
them roads around -tem hills and mountains, you
know, going up there.
I: Had you already started your family at this time?
CRK 45A 57
C: No, uh-uh. I was single at that time.
I: How'd you happen to get signed up in the CCC's?
C: Well, back then there just wasn't nothing to do. You
couldn't get a job doing nothing. And they moved
that...started that CC camp,.then, and a lot of times
you were just lucky if you could get in there, you
know. They'd have so many, you know, they'd have
as many as they want, you know. And they used to
have a camp up there at Little River. That was
the first camp that ever come around here was up
there at Little River, other side of Huxford up
there.
I: Is that where you signed up, or...?
C: Ro, I signed up at Brewton. I had to go to Brewton
to sign up. But they shipped us from here over to
Anniston, Alabama. A lot of them that went with me,
j Ex jZ354 4fci -
they shipped them to California, dif-A .we went out
in orders, you know. They'd call...there was thirteen,
no, fourteen hundred of us over there at Anniston.
And maybe they'd call from California, they maybe wanted
forty out in California to a camp out there. Bundle
them up, send forty out there. And maybe they wanted
CRK 45A 58
a hundred up in Tennessee. Different places, you
know. That's the way they sent us out from over
therethey Si\ ,.IN r, i-r, Call" ,\
over there.
I: You were just a young boy at that time?
C: Yeah, I was young.
I: That was before you were married.
C: Yeah. Yeah, I was about seventeen years old.
I: Well, we got just a little tape here. I'd like if
you could, if you could just very briefly talk about
what you think is been some of the biggest changes
for the Indian people in Alabama in your lifetime.
C: Well, I really don't know, to tell you the truth.
'- One thing that's changed them up a lot from what they
used to be when they got all these schoolsyou know,
straightened out and all this thing there. That was
a big change and ever since thenAthere's been a lot
of different change in them, you know, all that
IJ0J More or less back then, people just acted
like they was tied down. You know, they was scared to
get out or something or other like that, you know, just...
CRK 45A 59
I: Well, I'd never thought about that. Since they got
those schools, that's really encouraged them to get
out and get amongst the world.
C: Yeah, that's right. That's what I'm talking about.
Exactly right. The old Indian people was kind of
pushed back, you know, they didn't want to get out,
you know, with the white people and all of that. You
know, they wanted to stay back to themselves.
I: Well, have you ever...I don't know whether you have
or not, but what do you think is gonna be in the
future for the younger Indian people that are coming
up now?
C: Well, I think the way things are going now they're
gonna be something real worthwhile, you know, this
t^- -0
young race coming up now. they'ree getting a better
education now and most of them are finishing high
school and all such as that, and like I said, back
when I coming up you didn't have a chance. If they
don't get what they want now, it's just their fault.
Back years ago we had to walk to school. There wasn't
no such thing as a bus. If we went we had to walk
three or four miles, cold, rain, if we went. But now,
CRK 45A 60
they got such a good advantage now. The bus picks
them up right to their door and brings them right back
to their door, and if they don't get it now, why, it's
just their fault. They got everything they need.
---END OF TAPE---
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