Title: Interview with Mabel Kroll (September 7, 1972)
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00007501/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Mabel Kroll (September 7, 1972)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: September 7, 1972
Spatial Coverage: Creek County (Fla.) -- History.
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00007501
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Creek County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: CRK 26

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Full Text


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and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of

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P: I would like, Mrs. Kroll, if you would Begin by just saying where you
were horn, who your parents were, when you were. orn, and begin talking
about life from your earliest remembrances of what life was like.

K: Well, Ir was born in Huxford, Alabama, which, when I was born, was called
Local, Alabama, in 1918.. -My mother was Molly Colbert, and my daddy was
William Adams, Of course, I do not know too much to tell, but I know
quite a bit, Now I remember when my granddaddy had his own school. And
his school, he built it for his children and his grandchildren, and he
was the type of man that wanted his tribe to stay together, but if they
married off, then they begin to want to go back to the- we would call
it the white school, but they turned them down. But in the later future,
my uncle went to court in Mobile and got the schools put bach together.

P: Excuse me, who was that uncle?

K: Claude Colbert.

P: About what year was that?

K: I do not really know what year, but it has been fifteen years ago if not

P: Was Calvin McGhee involved in that any way?

K: Yes, Calvin McGhee was involved and Adam Daughtery was involved and they
all went to court together. Back in those days, the children could go
out into the neighborhood, to the store. Well the Indians were not
recognized more than niggers, because if they touched something, well,
they was even referred as "little nigger children."

P: This is in Huxford you are talking about?

K: This is in Huxford. In later years, my grandmother said she was gonna
bring us to Pensacola after our mother passed on to where we could live
more normal. Well, when we came here it was the same thing. When I
went to Hallmark School right down here, some of the ladies jumped up
and said they did not want their children with colored children. Well,
my grandmother went down, you know, to the board and got us back in

P: Can you remember, more less, what she told the board that she was able to
get you back in school?

K: Well, she. told the board that some of the ladies of the church .had made.
some remarks that they did not want their children going to school with
colored children.. Now, I was the darkest one in the family, and they
said the other children it was alright, but me more especially, they
children did not want to play with me r' have anything to do with me on
that account..

P: Kow did she convince the board to let you in?

K: Well, I was pretty young at the time, and them days, your parents, grand-


parents, did not tell you too much, but I know she raised some Cain at
that board. They were really glad to let: us back in because they were
afraid that they were going to Be taken to court. :Well, all of that part
got over but we still was not treated like .the white children, you know.
r mean we was pushed aside, more or less, just like we was little tramps
or something.

P: That is in Pensacola you are talking about?

K: That is now in Pensacola. But, in Huxford, Alabama, it was terrible and
also in Atmore. Now even since I have been married to Mr. Kroll- it has
been under twenty years ago since we have been married, well, about twenty
years ago- we went to Atmore and went in one of the drugstore. My
brother had passed away and that is why we were there. I went in and the
man told my husband, said, "I will serve you, but I cannot serve her."
Well, my- husband got furious, you know, and I said to keep from getting
in trouble, we just went on.

P: Your husband is a white man, right?

K: Yes, that is right.

P: Seems to me I heard that you once had problems in a beauty parlor, is that

K: Yes. In this beauty parlor up here in town I went to one time......

P: In Pensacola ?

K: In Pensacola and they did not want to serve me on account of I was dark.
They could not say, "Well you are a colored." They could not afford to
say that. They said "We just do not have room."

P: Did you argue with them or what?

K: I argued with them and wanted to know why. They said "We ain't got the
time to talk with you, we just do not want your business," Then me and
my husband's sister went out here one time to the McDonald's place,
where you get hamburgers, and they did not wnat to serve me. They did
not want me to even come in the building. Well she really raised Cain,
you know. Naturally, she had to go in and het the hamburgers, they did
not want to serve us, you know, and so she had to go in and get them.

K: Well, it is been under the last twenty years. It has been since me and
mr,--Kroll's has been married.. I will say it has been about eighteen years

P: Since the colored people-have been so active, and they have started letting
them go different places, have you had any problems?

K: No, no trouble since then. No trouble whatsoever. And just like I say,
in one way I am glad that it came because now they-got to look up to the
colored instead of mistreating the Indians. That is right, they got to
look up to the colored and instead of mistreat the Indians.


P: What exactly do you mean by' that?

K; Well, you know today that the colored .people is more looked up to in one
way than the white person.. Because they seem to get all the breaks. The
whites do not get as many breaks as seems to me the colored does.

P: Getting back to your early childhood, Did you ever go to school at your
granddaddy"s school?

K: Yes, that was my first school in Huxford, Alabama, which back in those
days was called Local, Alabama.

P: How many years did you go to that school?

K: I only went there abut a year, and that was after my mother passed away
and I was six years old. About a year later, I was brought to Florida.
But it was just like you have a little neighborhood church, well my grand-
daddy run his own school. It was his church and his school.

P: Did he pay the teacher?

K: No, becuase his sister taught school and he did not have to, and one of
the McGh.e boys was the teacher there at one time.

P: Was that Archie McGhee?

K: Archie McGhee was the teacher. I went under Archie McGhee for a little
while and then my aunt, she would fill in, my granddaddy's sister was a
teacher, and no one was paid for it as I know anything about. I mean,
they was just doing it now Archie might have been getting money from
the state, but I do not know. I would not say for sure because I do not
know that, but I know my aunt did not get no pay whatsoever, she just
filled in for him sometimes.

P: Were there ever, to your knowledge, any white children that went to that

K: No, no white children. Because my granddaddy would not allow it, he
would not allow. And even the church, come church time he did not want
the white people to even participate in the church.

P: What demonination was that church?

K: Baptist,

P: Why did not he want any whites to participate?

K: Well, because they had -mistreated his, children and he just was a man that
did not forgive and he did not think it was right that they come in after
mistreating his children and his grandchildren.

I believe his name was Mr. Green, I am not sure, Green"s drugstore in


P: Let me introduce this now. This is back to the story about when you
were turned away from the drugstore. And you'say his name was what?

K, Mr. Green, I believe Green's drugstore.

P: And your husband was saying he was one of the first to sigh up for the
Indian money?

K: Yes, he was the first to sign up and when he seen my husband, well, he
scattered. He knew that he had treated us wrong and he left. Now I do
not know if he come back later on to sign up or not, but he did not sign
up that night, he left.

P: You all happened to be there at the time?

K: Yes, we happened to be there at the time that he came. And he seen my
husband pointing at him and talking to Calvin, and so he got out right
then and there.

P: This was the very same man who would not serve you?

K: The very same man that told me he would not serve me. Well, he came to
sign up when he thought that we was getting something from the Indian

P: Let's go back, you were talking about: your granddaddy and why he was keep-
ing whites out of the school and the church.

K: Well, he always said that he wanted his children to may in their own
tribe, but you see, the tribe had narrowed out. There was not as many
back in those days as they are now living in the community and the child-
ren, more or less wanted to marry white men because they had been mis-
treated so by the white people, they figured if they married into the
white yell, maybe thier children when they came on would be treated better,
see. But, my granddadddy did not like that, and when the state come in,
telling that they had to be sanitary bathrooms and all that stuff, what
the Indians could not afford.....

P: In the school?

K: In the school, and they could not afford, he just said "Well my children
has got to go to school smoewhere," so he just tore the school down. He
just taken his mules and hooked onto it and pulled it down. And he taken
the building and he built a house out of it for my aunt.

P: Who was your aunt, by the way?

K: Stella Colbert. She passed away quite a while ago.

P: Now-after he tore the school down, then where did the Indian children go
to school?

K: Well, they had all growed up at this time. Then, after that, is when my


uncle and all of them-got together, my granddaddy passed on, and I guess
maybe there was several years children did not go to school and were just
taught by somebody in the family. But then, when my uncle was married -
Claude ColBert-- he knew that there was gonna be his children. So they
got to work, him and McGhee's and Adam Daughtery, and they put up the
money and they made up money at the other schools-- at the church at least-
and they went to Mobile and hired a lawyer. When they got there though,
they found where our great, great grandparents had signed a treaty where
they children would not go with the white children.

P: I had not heard about that before. Tell me more.

K: Then when they did that, well, they found where the schools had been drew
apart, you know'. Now this was not my granddaddy this was farther back. I
do not know if it was on the Walker side or whether it was- see I had
one granddaddy who was a walker, my grandmother on the Colbertside was a
walker I do not know if it was the Colber side who had pulled the schools
apart, but i think it would have been the Colbert side of the family.
But they just fought and they won. Then the children was put back in
public schools.

P: Were they ever bussed by school bus down to Poarch?

K: Yes, they got a bus to carry them back and forth. Now they even let them
go in Atmore.

P: I guess there are not many Indian children left around Huxford now, are

K: No, there not. They do not any of my family live up there much any more.
Now, Noahy McGhee, he lives down just a little ways from Huxford, but his
children is grown and they are out of school. But the is not any of the
family. My grandmother's old home has all been torn down and all of that
is gone,

P: When you were a girl, did you all visit folks down at Hogfork and Bell
Creek much?

K: Yes.. I had an aunt that lived there Ms. Presley, well, all of them is my
people down there, and we used to go down there to homecoming days. Back
in those days, we did not have no cars, you know, we just only had a wagons.
We would used to have to leave way before day to get down there to home-
coming days and we would be way in the night getting back home on Sunday
night because when they had an affair, it was all day long.

P: Describe one for me,

K: Well, we would have about half a dozen or a dozen preachers that would
come from all over the country to speak.. Everybody would come with their
wagons and they even brought food for the horse, you know like corn and
hay and stuff like that.. They would have to take it right along Because
we would be there twelve or fifteen hours or maybe longer when we would
have one of these affairs, so they would have po take that all along, aaid
where we got our water from was the spring. Getting back now to my


granddaddy's side, we- had a big table paced down through the oak trees
and the spring was right down below and they would. get their drinking
water for the church -nd for the dinner and for the horse and all right
from the same spring.

P: What happened during those twelve or fifteen hours at the homecoming?
What was going on?

K: Well, we was just eating and enjoying our selves, you know.

P: The preachers would take turns?

K: Yes, the preachers would take turns speaking and the young people, after
the preachers quit preaching, they would sing. And then the children,
you know, lots of times would get sleepy. Well the people even carried
their quilts along for the children to lay down on, you know, because it
was just too much for children and they would have to have a place to
sleep. Lot of times they would put them in the wagon and lot of times
they would let them lay down on the benches in the church. If it was in
the daytime, they would always parked under a shade tree, you know.

P: Were these held indoors or outside or what?

K: Outside.

P: The whole affair?

K: No, church was held inside and the baptizing was outside and also the
dinner was outside.

P: How many times a year would there be one of these--would a church have a

K: Well, we generally had one about twice a year.

P: Your church did?

R: Uh huh. And the church-we only had church every fifth Sunday.

P: You only had church on the.afifth Sunday?

K: The fifth- Sunday of the month.

P: What happened the other four Sundays?

K: Well, we would have Sunday School, you know, and my granddaddy would -get
up and read the bible and stuff like that, but regular church was every
fifth Sunday. See, our pastor had to come from a long ways, you know,
and he did not have a car either. He would have to come in a wagon, and
he would come and stay over night. ee would come on Saturday and go back
Sunday afternoon.

P: Where was your pastor form?


K: He was from Uriah, Alabama, and that is a little ways. to go in a wagon.

P: That is even fairly far in a car. What times of the year would you have
your homecoming?

K: In the summer months of the year. I will say about the first part of the
summer we had one and about the last part of the summer when it begin to
get a little bit cooler we would have one.

P: Why were they called homecomings?.

K: Well, it was just a day that all the family would get together and enjoy
themselves and you would meet all your kin people that you had not seen
in a long time. That was one day that all the families got together, you

P: Now, say your church was having a homecoming up around Huxford, and you
had relatives, say down a t Bell Creek or Hogfork who did not belong to
that church. Were they welcome to come too?

K: Yes. They was always notified by mail.. One would write one and notify
them and then the other would tell the other one and the other me, like

P: So it was not just for the members of that church?

K: No, it was for all of the families.

P: And you would go to homecoming, say, down at Bell Creek?

K: Yes, we went to homecoming down there a lot of times. At thims time we
lived at Butler Street, Alabama. That is where my grandmother's old home
was and, well, that is a good ten or twelve miles. My grandmother would
do all the cooking on a Saturday night and get us up way before day to
get us down there, you know. But we would be there in time for church
and have the dinner. Sometime we would stay over on Sunday night with
my aunt but most of the times we came back and lot of times we would be
midnight getting home.

P: Then you would have to get up and go to work the next morning?

K: Get up and go to work in the field the next morning.

P: I guess sometimes you were pretty tired.

K: Oh, we were tired, I am telling you. Them-days children did not sit around
and twiddle their thumbs, they had to work. And if it was a rainy day,
we had a scrap box and we would sit down and pieced up quilts. We did
not go to run out to play. We-were really glad when we would have com-
pany, because if we had company, grandmother would let us go out and play
a little bit.

P; Back to the homecoming. Did you ever go to a homecoming at Head of


K: Yes.

P: Did you go there as often as Bell Creek?

K: No, Because that was a little bit too far and.we did not go as often as
we did to'Bell Creek.

P Your husband was just mention they used to make dresses out of red
Hankerchiefs. Could you talk describe those to me?

K: Yes, One time my grandfather told me it I quite drinking coffee- he
did not want me to drink coffee because he figured I was a little bit too
young. All the girls back there was making dresses out of red hankerchiefs.
and, he said, "I will buy you enough red hankerchiefs when I sell my
cotton." So, he did. He bought me the red hankerchiefs to make my dress,
and I got my dress, and my grandmother said told him "Jim, you know that
girl has not quit drinking that coffee," and he said, "I knew she.gonna
quit when I bought the hankerchiefs."

P: What style of dress did they make out of the handkerchiefs?

K: Well, it was just a straight dress with little pleats around the tail.
Just a straight dress with pleats.

P: Make out of those red handerchiefs like railroad men used to wear around
their neck?

K: Wear around your neck, yes. Back then that was really the style, you
know-- a handherchief dress.

P: Wat that a style that was particular to the Indian people?

K: Yes, it was particular for the Indian people you, know, because mostly
all Indians like red because it was a loud color. Well, we all liked it.

P: Did you ever see any of the older women wearing clothes that were a little
bit different than those of the. white people?

K: Yes. Now my grandmother always wore checks a lot, and she never went any
place without her apron and her bonnet. She had a checkered bonnet and
she wore it at all times; no matter where she went, she wore her bonnet
and her checkered apron,

P: And a long dress?

K: And a long dress. We used to have to wear hooped skirts real big.-
And our underclothes-was starched real stiff that made them stand out,
you know and we used to have to wear that. Even when we went to church
we had to wear those stiff clothes. Back those days, my hair was long
and my grandmother used to braid the ribbn' through it. I guess it would
take ten, fifteen yards of ribbon braid through my hair, because I mean
it was real long,

P: And then how would she fix it when she braided it? Up around your head,


or what?

K: No, she would let it hang down with. the ribbon'with a .bow- in the back on
each side,

P: Was this when you were a little girl or a young woman?

K: Well, this was when i was a girl in my, teens..

P: Was that a style that a lot of teenaged girls had?

K: Well, no it was just mostly the style of Indian people. They plaited
their hair a lot, and braided it up over their head a lot because they
did not believe in just combing your hair out, you know. They always
fixed it up a little bit a little bit fancy,.

P: Do you remember whether the old women ever made beads or anything like
that to wear around your neck?

K: Yes, we made heads out of china berries., I have made them myself, out
of china berries. We dye them any color you wanted them and make them-
have you a big needle and your thread and make them. And I will tell you
another thing we used to do, we used to make our brooms for our house out
of pine straw.

P: How were those made?

K: Well, you just take an old broom handle and picked up the dry straw and
you wrapped it with wire and nailed it in there, you know, the wire, where
you could wrap it real good, and it made really good brooms. And we
scubbed out floors with a scrub, you know, with shucks.

P: Corn shucks?

K: Corn shucks, that is what we scrubbed our floor with corn shucks and

P: Back to the china berry-seed necklaces, was that something that just
little girls made or did grown women make them?

K: Grown women made them, and when you would put them on they would look
real stylish.

P: I have noticed lately some of the younger women up around Poarch are
making china berry seed-necklaces again.

K: Yes, a lot'of the style things are coming back from the old day, it is
coming back,

P: You were speaking of ribbon before. Do you'remember whether some of the
older women used to decorate their dresses with ribbons?

K: Yes,


P: What in particular did they do?

K: Well, they would have. rt.bn around their dresses and they would make
their dresses even.. Some:of the women crocheted it, and they would run
the ribbons through the" tails of their dresses and make a big bow in the
front and it would look0real nice.,

P: Where did people go in those days to Buy ribbon and clothes and things
like that?

K: Well, Atmore. You could go to Atmore and get some ribbon, but most of
the ribbon my grandmother ordered out of;the catalog and it would come
from Pensacola. Order it from here or, you know, wherever the home office
was like Sears and Roebuck, Montgomery Ward, and places like that she
would order this stuff.

P: Would you all get a new catalog every year?

K: Yes, just like now. And light bread- we never had any light bread.
only about once a month the man would come through and we would by a loaf
of light bread. When we had a loaf of light Bread we thought we had cake
because it was so good.

P: Ordinarily you just had cornbread?

K: Ordinarily cornbread and biscuits, uh huh.

P: Did you make cornbread several different ways?

K: Well, you could make cornbread when the corn began to get dry. You could
take it and use it and wheat it off, and it would make cornbread but it
would still taste like corn.

P: Would the corn be ground up?

K: No, we would do it ourselves.

P: How would you do it?

K: On a you know, a grater. It is made out of tin and..,..

P: You can scrape carrots and things?

K: Yes, uh. hun.

P: There is one thing I want to akk you about, Do you remember your grand-
daddy or any other older people saying a few words in the Indian language
or talking it?

K: No, I never heard them speak the Indian language.

P: They never said even a word or two of Indian language?

K: No.


P: Did they ever talk about when they were children heating Indian language?

K: No, 1 never heard my, grariddaddy speak about it.

P; Did he ever tell you about-things that happened Back when he. was a boy?

K; No, Because they were always so busy they did not have a lot of time to
sit down and talk and discuss these things. They had to work from sunup
to sundown to make a living.

P: Well, what I had in my mind was maybe just little things like when you
were working with: your grandmother in the kitchen and she would say', "When
I was a girl, we did so an do." Did she ever do that?

K: Well, yes, after we began to get our wells in the yard and my grandmother
say, "Well bou about drawing a bucket of water," and I would say, "Well,
tell so and so to draw it," you know. She would say, "When I was a little
girl we had to go to the spring; we had to get our water from the spring;
we had to wash our quilts, and during the summertime, we would have to
wash them and rinse them in the creek.

P: Would you boil them- the quilts, like clothes?

K: We would put them in a tub and get in there with our feet and stomp them.
That is the way we got the dirt out. Or put them on a block and beat
them like beating them with a baseball, you know.

P: Then where did you dry them?

K: Well, we had lines stretched up on top of the hill and we would carry
them in a tub up to the top of the hill and put them over the lines.

P: Do you remember your grandmother ever making sofkee, a corn pouned up
in a wooden mortar like that?

K: Well, that is something on the same order I was just speaking about.
You grated it just as your corn began to het hard, but when you grated
it off it would he a little bit soft. And maybe you could break an egg
in it, and it was not dry enough to grind and it was too dry to cut off
to eat, but you could make cornbread out of it. We did not have any bread
and that was the onlies way we couldget it was fic it like that. So she
would grate it off and bake it and it was just cornbread for breakfast,
cornBread and milk. r never remember very much in life until I came to
Pensacola ever sitting down to a real fancy breakfast, because it was
cornbread and milk.. My grandmother would make pones of cornbread.- Then
she would go out and milk the- cow. By, the time the bread got done, well
she had the cows milked and we would have cornbread and milk.

P: Do you remember any food that they.used to make a lot of back in those
days that they do not make much anymore?

K: Well, the food has not changed all that much. It is mostly vegetables
and stuff like that. The food is not too much different.


P: Up around Huxford, was there a, lot of hunting and eating wild food?

K: Yes, my granddaddy, he killed a lot of rabbits, squirrels and stuff like
that, and also we always raised our own hogan and we' had that.

P: Could you tell me a little bit more of what you remember about getting
used to Pensacola when you first came?

K: Well, when we first come to Pensacola I' was six years old no, about seven-
between six and seven- and it was just amazing-so many buildings and
things like that which I had never seen. I remember down about two blocks
from us there was a little store and it had a ice cream parlor and I went
down there and that was the most amazingest thing I had ever seenwhen they
could dip that ice cream up, you know, and put it in one of the cones.
And another thing, when I first seen spaghetti I would not eat that because
I was afraid of that. You know you have seen people, kids will back from

P: I guess if you had never seen spaghetti before it looks like worms.

K: Yes, yes it did. My grandmother said "well you are gonna eat it," and I
said, "It looks like worms." But we knew not to say that we was not gonna
do something because back those days, children did not disobey their parents.
We did not do it them days. We just did not disobey our parents. My
brother at twenty-one years old, he still come home and brought the money
into my father. My father told him to spend his money and how to live.

P: Did you then spend the rest of your life, more or less in Pensacola after
that time?

K: No, we went back and forth. We would stay down here for a while with my
Grandmother Adams and then we would go back to our Grandmother Colberts.
We would generally spend the months up there that school was out, then we
would come back here.

P: Where did you meet your husband?

K: Pensacola.

P: Then did you live--did the two of you live here the rest of your time?

K: Yes, this is- my husband's home. He has lived' here. all his life.

P; So since you have been married, you have not lived back up there?

K! No.

P; Have you ever worked here in Pensacola?

K: Yes.

P: What kind of work did you do?

K: In cafes.


P: Well, I have been askiTng a lot of specific questions. I wonder if I
could just give you the opportunity to talk about how the Indain people
have Been treated through the years, how that is changed, and what the
future looks like.

K: Well, I will say when they started the Indian affair of getting the people
to sigh up for the Indian money it was when the Indian people began to be
treated better, because everybody turned Indian. There was not just one
Indian then, you would see people that you really knew that never pro-
fessed a drop of Indian Blood in them that they would come up and say
they want to sign up- they were Indians, you know. But, if it had not
of been on account of the Indian money, they would have never have pro-
fessed they Indian. They act like they thought it was a disgrace to be
an Indian, which I think it was an honor. Because you know the Indians
are the first Americans, and I think that the Indian people has had a raw
deal. I really think it is really time the Indian people should get what
is coming to them and they should not have been treated they way they have
been treated in the first part because this country did belong to the
Indians first.

P: I would just like to aske you to elaborate on a couple of things. Why
do you think people thought it was a disgrace to be an Indian?

K: Well, I do not know, unless it was a dark complexion. That-is the on list
thing I can-figure out because'a'lot-of the Indians are blond a lot of
the Indians are dark, like myself. And the people just-- I guess that is
the onliest reason, explanation, I could give of it. They just thought
it would be a disgrace to be dark. I have known people that has told me
that they would give anything in the world to have my complexion. I have
worked for people that would have even tried to get me completion by get-
ting out in the sun and just burning themselves up, you know, to be dark.

P: Do you think there was any time when people were afraid of the Indians in
your lifetime?

K: Well, back in my granddaddy's day they were afraid. Now, you know some-
thing? That could have been the reason why, even when us children would
go around the stores and':the white children would back away, it could have
been that they was afraid. Then another thing, it could have been because
their parents taught them against us. That is the way I looked at it,
that the parents had taught they children against us.

P: When you were growing up around Local up there, were there actually any
colored people living there?

K: Well, there were about two families of'colored people who lived on the'
railroad tracks. They worked, for the railroad. Other than that, there
was not very many" colored until you got to Atmore.,

P: Would those two families get out amongest the other people at all?

K: Well, they used to come over to my grandfather s and they would want to
go fishing on our land, but they would always come and get permission.


P: Had he bought that land or what?

K.; Yes, at one time we owned the land clean from Huxford, Im ean from where
my, grandmothers old home&is almost down to Little. River going over to
Uriah, Alabama. And see, it was all of'myT-uncle's, my granddaddy's
brothers, owned it together.. 'My granddaddy was named Jim Colbert and
that is as far back as I know of my- uncles- that did live on the property.

P: Now this will be my last question. You said that the Indians have 'been
treated badly in the past.. Would you sort of list off the specific
things that you mean by that?

K: Well, the specific things that I mean about that is when I-- you go in a
place and you are pushed aside and they do not even want to serve you, or
you go in a beauty parlor and they do not want to fix your hair because
you are they know that your are not a colored, they just know that you
are dark; that it, and they do not want to fool with you.

P: Would you like to say something Mr. Kroll?

W:- -This is William Kroll, married to American Indian. She is not not married
to American because there ain't no Americans-- only the Indians and I
feel this a way about the Indians. If you are Indian and can prove it, I
know they are entitled to that Indian money, because if I go up there and
say that I am a Indian and I am not, I am not even American. My father
was a German, my mother was Spanish and that did not show me to be
American. The true American is- the onliest true Americans-- is Indians.
And the people looks down on them and everything, but I will tell you,
they are the onliest Americans in the United States. And I feel like
this. I believe they outght to go ahead and pay that money what was to
them the ones that deserve it, but the ones that is against the Indians,
and everything the white people and the colored too, and when they go up
there to sign up I do not know whether the colored did, but the white
I am positive did-- went up there. They was one of the first ones to
come up there and sign up after they refused to serve my wife. I am
married to an American and I am proud of it. Thank you.

P; Thank you.


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