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UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Interviewee: Albert Sanders
Interviewer: Emma Echols
September 4, 1992
CAT 180
Albert Sanders is an eighty-eight year old former chieftain
of the Catawba Indians. In this interview he discusses his former
jobs, his activities as chief on behalf of the tribe, and the
recent settlement with the federal government.
Interviewee: Albert Sanders
Interviewer: Emma Echols
September 4, 1992
CAT 180A
E: This is Emma Echols, 5150 Sharon Road, Charlotte, North
Carolina. I am among the Catawba Indians, recording their
Oral History for the University of Florida [and] Dr. Sam
Proctor. I am visiting in the home of Albert Sanders, one
of the chieftains. I have his picture in my files, and I am
so glad to have a chance to visit with him today. Mr.
Sanders, how old are you?
S: I was born [on] October 10, 1904. So I will be 88 years old
this coming October 10.
E: Well, you have lived a long and very useful life. Tell me,
who did you marry?
S: I married Doris Blue.
E: How long has she been dead?
S: One year ago March 16.
E: You had how many children together?
S: Eleven.
E: Eleven children. How many of those are living?
S: Ten.
E: Ten of them are living. They are all living around Rock
Hill?
S: Yes.
Now they have all gone to school?
Albert Jr. was the oldest.
Yes. I saw his picture; [he is] a fine looking boy over
there. What business is he in?
Welding.
You have a fine family, and they are all close by you, are
they not?
Yes.
Did your wife make pottery?
No.
Some of them made [it] and some did not.
That is right.
Now where did you get your education?
On the reservation, what little of it I did get. That is
where I went. outside the reservation and other
places with that. I worked at the bleachery for fourteen
years.
Fourteen years at the bleachery there?
Yes. When I first went there I used to [inaudible] down
here when they first started that.
That is right.
They came after me, at Manchester Cotton Mill, [in] Rock
Hill; and also [at] the old mill standing there now. Well,
they all wanted me. They found out who I was and saw what I
could do, and knew what I did; everybody was after me. So I
could pick a job when I wanted it, and [I would] get it. I
am not bragging, but I have been well known ever since I was
a young fellow, and there are many, many people who know me
today. I have a good name. I never have been in jail, or
locked up in my life.
E: Of course you would not. [Laughter] Now who was your father
and mother?
S: Well, my mother was Nora Elvina Sanders. She was a Gordon;
Sally Gordon was her mother. Bill Sanders (they called him)
or William Sanders was my daddy. John Sanders was his
daddy.
E: How many years were you at the bleachery?
S: Fourteen.
E: Fourteen years. Then you were one of the chieftains,
elected by the tribe, for how many years?
S: Well, I was elected when I was up there at that time. I was
the one that got the place that they are on. I own part of
it, and some of it they sold. I left the reservation 630
acres as it is, divided among the people who got their share
in money and they stay on the reservation now and run it.
They run that, but I left that for the Catawba Indians on
roll.
E: Now you have your own three acres and your own home here.
S: That is right, this is mine.
E: And you have a daughter and a son living with you here?
S: That is right.
E: You were a wise person to take the land instead of the
money, were you not?
S: Well, I think so, because it was a whole lot cheaper at that
time. They sold what they did get, and I sold some of mine,
at that time.
E: Then you get a retirement pension from your job?
S: Yes. I draw a little now; it is not much, but I quit work
at that time, and took my retirement in 1962, you see.
E: Yes.
S: Okay. Well, I draw $490 a month now from that. That is all
I ever did draw. I raised my family and worked outside
where I could, and kept them going. I am still not hungry.
I am not what you would call a man with plenty of money and
plenty of this and that, but I did have sense enough to know
you would have to live according to what you made. I could
make so much with the crowd I had, and draw that too.
E: That is good. You had a small garden, [and did] your own
vegetables?
S: Well, I never was a man that worked a garden. I worked
outside. I was gone on different jobs, myself. My kids now
raise some things, but back in those times I never did farm
but one time in my life. I helped a farmer. That was with
Nelson Blue. That was way back before I was married. So if
you want me to tell you about that I can tell you. I can
tell you when my wife and I [were] married. We were married
December 14, 1925. Albert Jr., the first boy, was born
October 28, 1926, about 11 months after our marriage. He is
still living now. And the youngest is still here. And the
other now is dead and gone; she would have been living too,
today, I guess if it was not for [inaudible].
E: You have so many beautiful pictures all around here, and I
have some of these pictures, too. What do you remember of
the old church down on the reservation? Now you have a
brand new church. What do you remember about the old
Mormon church?
S: Well, all I ever knew was that I was born down there on the
old reservation, and the old church was torn down on the 630
acres now. And this other church is on the new land that I
[came up] with, invited up among the tribe at that time.
Most of my family were Mormons, but I am one not one of
those who pretend to be what I am not.
E: Now this is your son, Albert Jr., in Greenville?
S: The oldest one.
E: The oldest one. He is a fine looking boy. Now what is his
work? What job does he do?
S: Welding.
E: He is a welder.
S: Yes.
E: That is a very fine one.
S: What do you think is going to be the future of the Catawbas
now that they are getting the settlement? Will it affect
you or will it just be for the young ones?
E: No. According to the young ones, I would not tell you why,
they are not even on the roll. I got a roll up until a
certain time, but it was not on that 144,000 acres of land.
Actually, it was 144,000 acres of land that the Indians
owned when I was not here. But when I worked around and got
what I got for them, and put them where they are today.
That is the reason they are standing there; that is why I am
standing here. I have the same rights [that] you have, [I
can] do what you can do, if I had the money. I know I do
not. It does not handicap me from doing anything I want to
do if I am able to do it.
E: That is right.
S: I feed myself and fed my family and raised them where they
are today. I worked.
E: You not only had friends among the Catawbas, but you had
friends among the white people.
S: That is right.
E: Tell me some of the white people that you remember [were]
your friends.
S: My friends?
E: Yes.
S: Lots of them.
E: The Leslies were good friends of yours; William Leslie and
Johnson Leslie, and Mr. Greer Leslie who managed your
affairs for a while. Do you remember those [people]?
S: Who?
E: Greer Leslie?
S: Yes. I remember him well. I used to work for him
sometimes.
E: That is right.
S: He and I built that barn out there when I was a little
fellow.
E: You helped to build that barn? [laughter] Well, that is
something. Some of you helped to build Neeley's Creek
Church, too.
S: Well, I did not work on that. I know what you are talking
about. [I knew] Greer Leslie, and I know Sprat, and Hayes
and all of those fellows. Actually, they know me today--
the ones in Columbia. All of those big shots that have the
big jobs, you know? They know Albert Sanders. If they [are
told my name] they know [me].
E: You are proud to be a Catawba Indian, are you not? You have
a rich heritage, and are proud of it.
S: That is right. Born one. My mother was Nora Sanders; she
married Bill Sanders. You see me [as I was] standing in the
picture there? That is the way I was raised. Sometimes I
had something to eat, sometimes I did not. My daddy worked,
and she died young. I came up in what you would call the
hard way. I worked public work myself when I got old enough
to work. That is why I made it today, and I am the one that
made the Catawba Indians what they are today, or they would
not have been here today. I put them there and got no
credit for it.
E: Well, lots of people remember you and give you credit for
the things that you have done. In Mrs. Brown's book, she
gives you credit as being one of the chieftains. That was a
good thing. If you have one word of advice to give to the
young Catawba Indians now, what would you tell them?
S: Well, I have told them all, and I [will tell them again]
today. Some do not agree with what I say, even living on
the old reservation that I left for them to live on at that
time. I do say, if the settlement comes up, I have the
papers in my locker that say who was born at that time on
that roll that I was on, and who I was at that time. I have
that. Like this other land [which] was divided up among the
ones at that time, they can do what they want with it. They
own that. They have to pay taxes on it. I do not. As far
as the old reservation, I left it as it was, when I
the State of South Carolina, not to be done away with. That
is the reason it is still down there. The younger ones, who
have been born since that time stay there on that place, and
says nothing about it.
E: Do you speak any words of the Catawba Language?
S: No. I was not born with the language. I do not know any of
it.
E: Well, you have a wonderful spirit, and I hope that God will
bless you in the future.
S: You can ask anybody, any lawman, from anywhere else, and see
if they do not know me. I even went to Atlanta to Peachtree
Street.
E: Well, it has been a joy to be with you in your home and to
see the pictures of you and your wife and your children. I
like the picture of your mother. Are you with your mother
in that second picture on the mantle? Sitting on her lap?
S: Oh, no that is my daddy and his mother.
E: That is your grandmother, then?
S: Yes.
E: And your father.
S: Yes. That was way back, see.
E: Now who would your grandmother be?
S: I used to have some of that. That was in the Harris side.
E: Now the woman would be [who]?
S: Lucinda Harris.
E: Lucinda Harris. Then your grandfather would be?
S: John Sanders was [my] grandfather, and that is my daddy, his
son.
E: Your daddy is sitting on her lap.
S: Yes.
E: Well, it has been a joy to talk with you.
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