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 Interview






Billy Osborne
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Title: Billy Osborne
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Publication Date: 1972
Copyright Date: 1972
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Table of Contents
    Cover
        Cover
    Interview
        Page 1
        Page 2
        Page 3
        Page 4
        Page 5
        Page 6
        Page 7
        Page 8
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        Page 10
        Page 11
        Page 12
        Page 13
        Page 14
        Page 15
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SOUTHEASTERN INDIAN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT


UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA


In cooperation with the Catawba Nation


INTERVIEWEE: Mr. Billy Osborne
INTERVIEWER: Emma Reid Echols


DATE: January 11, 1972




















E: This is Emma Reid Echols, Route 6, Box 260, Rock Hill, South
Carolina. I'm visiting in the home of Mr. Osborne in Indian
Land, and the whole house is filled with interesting things.
He's going to tell you in just a moment. Also visiting with
us is Doris Blue, the widow of Andrew Blue, and so both of
us will maybe be asking Mr. Osborne questions.
Mr. Osborne, will you give me your full name and your
address?

0: Billy Osborne, and it's Route 3, Waxhaw, North Carolina. I
go by Post Office Box 177, though--Fort Mills, South Carolina.

E: How did you happen to get interested in this work?

0: I started off writing up the history of the Indian Land school,
and from there, well, it wasn't enough just to write the history
of the school without getting the facts before the school came
along. And so therefore, it...as I say, boomeranged into the
Catawba Indians.

E: Tell us anything you'd like to. First of all, let's talk...this
table that's spread out with all kind of Indian objects.

0: Most of these artifacts is taken off...I would say three-fourths
of them were taken off of the property that they were located.
Each one has their own number that we go by to identify the object,
and to identify the place from which the object came. And South
Carolina, from Lancaster County, and within this area of Catawba
Indians, is 38-LA so and such. In other words, it would be 1, 2,
3, 4, 5. But all of it starts off with 38-LA. We have gotten these
things off the sites themselves. We excavated different sites; we have
not excavated any graveyards yet. We know where they are, but we have
not taken that on at this point.

E: Describe some of the things you have over here on the table.

0: All right. We have the trade beads. The trade beads are the
type of beads that were traded back during the seventeenth century.
One of the most unusual things about the trade beads is the fact
that you get the red ones. Now, the red ones was at that time an















expensive glass. And they used inferior glass, which is black,
on the inside, and therefore did on the outside with the red
glass. That way they was able to save their money, and yet
still give the Catawba Indians what they wanted at that time
by tricking them with the red glass beads. We have one or two
that does have the dyes on the beads that are white with blue-
black designs on them; and then you've got the blue, different
shapes, and so forth.
One of the graveyards, though, that was dug up by the
highway, we did find a group of beads; they were much smaller
than the regular type of trade beads, and they had an elk's
tooth on them, too, and they also had this red-type glass on
the outside with the black inferior glass on the inside. They
are one that is made with a bone-type structure, and the others
are more or less glass-type. Also, out of the graveyards we've
gotten a pottery bowl--a little tiny bowl no bigger than the palm
of your hand. We also have gotten a soapstone-type, which is very
rare to comeby these days, and it was excavated from the side of
the highway. This was off the side of Highway 521.

E: Now, the small little bowl...do you think it was used for warpaint,
or was it possibly used for cooking medicines?

0: Well, I believe that really it was more or less for paint to
make-up, or it could have been used for medicine. At that time
the smaller objects, or this type bowl, was used for painting
objects, so forth. And up in the western part of the United States
they used this type of bowl for poison on arrowheads, but to my
knowledge the Catawba Indians never used any. We also got a hammer-
stone, which is a round ball-type that they used to grind corn with,
and also a bow which they used in growing the corn. And we found
several pieces of pottery, and soapstone pottery, and regular clay-
type pottery. We've taken all of this information that we've got,
with the numbers and everything, and within the Indian Land community
alone we was able to do the archeology of South Carolina University.
We was able to take and complete the date of the archeology of the
Catawba Indians. In the archeology, if you notice, we have taken
the arrowheads and projectile points, and dated them from the period
of 18 A. D. all the way back to 10,000 B. C., which is the hard way.
This group of arrowheads has come off the land within the Indian Land
territory. We are in hopes of being able to do the same thing for
York and Chester in this very area. This being donated to the Indian
Land school.















E: That's an amazing collection you have there, all mounted on
a big board and the dates all written beside them.

0: Right, and the name of the artifact. Now, the...arrowhead's
names, or the artifact's name, was either gotten...this was
compared with coal breakdown for the artifacts of North
Carolina, and these names were either given by the location
where it was found or the person that may have found them.
And they adopted the name to this particular type of arrowhead.

E: Did people give you these, or do you find them, buy them, or
how do you collect all these?

0: A lot of this stuff is on loan; some of it we found ourselves.
Most of this stuff will be returned back to the people, even
though we might have excavated it ourselves. Most of it will
go to the people whose property it was on, and if they care to,
they will donate it to different libraries throughout the county.
This is what we are in hopes of doing, is educate them to the
point of what they do have, put it into a public place where the
people themselves can see it, and it will be open to the public,
instead of putting them in shoe boxes and hiding them in closets.

E: Tell us about some of the other stones you have over to the side
here on the table.

0: Well, we have the tommyhawk-type stones--which is slick, and
comes to a point, and has been broken off at the top. You have
also the other type of tommyhawk, which is not as slick; it's
more or less a rough type. Then you have the tommyhawk which
is a grooved-out type, and it was...it weighed approximately
about a pound or so, I guess. And then you have the type of
chisel, more or less, and it was also used for a whetting stone,
sharpening objects with....
This here was more or less used for digging or cutting down
anything that they needed to cut down--bushes or whatever they
needed at that time. This here is a hoe which is flat on the end,
and it's kind of round at the top; they used this for digging for
the corn and so forth. And we got some more whetstones...more of
that. These other things, the large objects, rocks and so forth,
are carbon rocks where they have scratched. This rock here in
particular is where they get their flint stone, is one reason why
we took this rock along. This one here is where an arrowhead was
actually made out of the rock. And you see where they've broken
into the rock.















The Indians were really amazing in their way of making
tools. They knew exactly the way the grain of the rock went,
and therefore they was able to go in there and take out the
parts that they needed to make their arrowheads in this fashion.
It's really amazing that they knew this art.

E: What kind of rocks do you have there? Are you able to identify
the different kinds of rock they used?

0: I'm not particular able to identify the different types of rock.
The archeologist at South Carolina is able to identify them.
They've got the number four and five with my number here, and
they send me lists of names of the different types. One of the
most amazing things we found on the very site of some of the
artifacts was a knife that was made out of a file. It's kind
of unbelievable to know that Indians back then could take a
file, and break it down to a knife type, but .they was actually
able to do this.
Then we go on to artifacts that date as far back as the
sixteenth century, which was the type of cutting tool which
it will cut you, and it's made out of a rock of some type.
Then you've got this type of knife which is dated back even
before that. It's Tallula River. It would be in the B. C.
category. And drilling tools...you have different types and
shapes of drilling tools. They use this, nevertheless, for
they could either use it for drilling into leather or hide,
or...including dirt, more or less, for planting corn, too.

E: Did you ever find anything they used for sewing? What did
they use for sewing?

0: They used a rock type or an animal tooth for sewing. It's
small; we have yet to come by one on our excavation. Now,
we have seen several of them around, but we have not actually
run across one. Then on up here we have these types of chisel
rocks that they used for chiselling tools out. These types
of rocks are what they used on these big types of rocks to
chisel the types of arrowheads on. And you have them about
a half inch thick, to a quarter of an inch thick, to a very
thin piece. We're finding all this...really amazing to go
through all this and bring it down to the dates and years.

E: How much more do you have to catalog yet? I see you have so
many more boxes still full.














0: Yes. We got pretty close to fifteen we have yet to classify
and date and everything before we be finished up with this
area of Lancaster County. I've got an appointment next week
in Lancaster, which is two property owners that were in this
area that has artifacts that came out of this area. And we'll
be talking with them next week on what they have. But all
these boxes contain arrowheads or artifacts of some sort. You
can tell they range from the small ones of one inch, and goes
all the way up to the Tallula River type, which would be three
and four inches.

E: They have no idea how big this territory was years ago?

0: No. Our earliest mention of the territory was 1840, which
consisted of 144,000 acres. We believe this to be stated
by the State of South Carolina that it was not the actual
territory the Indians covered. We believe they covered at
one time from the mountains of North Carolina to as far down
as Columbia itself, and to the Pee Dee [River] area, and next
to the Savannah River. We believe that they really covered
a large territory. The conflict that the Cherokees and the
Catawbas had in their earlier history proves that they covered
much more territory than what they did at that time.

E: They had many...what do you think that might be? I mean, out
of the population of the Indians at that time, then?

0: We estimate it at 300,000 at that time. That was during the
war between the Cherokees and the Catawbas. And so the
population has decreased tremendously, until the last few
years it started increasing; so it looks like our Catawba
Nation is not going to die out after all.

E: In your visits, do you find any stories of how old stories were
handed down from one generation to the other even before the
days of formal school?

0: Yes. Very well true. We found this to be true for the simple
reason that most of your chiefs...for instance, we believe that
most of the stories and the language and so forth was passed
down. Now, we believe that Chief Blue was the last one to know
some of the Catawba Indian language. We say some. I get the
impression he would more or less elaborate or bloat up his
portion of the Catawba Indian, and he did not actually know as
much as we perhaps thought he would have at that time. But if
I'm not mistaken, Mrs. Blue, is this not (the Catawba Indian
language) completely done away with now?















B: It is. No one speaks it or understands it now.

0: And was it not Chief Blue...did he not know just a few words,
and that was about it?

B: He could speak some. I don't think he understood or could
speak as much as some of these others.

0: As the writers made up that he could?

B: Yes. But he understood it; you could talk to him in the
Catawba language, and he would understand. He would also
speak some words, but I really don't know just exactly how much.

E: Mr. Osborne, the other day Sally Wade told me that Chief Blue
had a book that belonged to her. And the day before he died...
he knew it belonged to Sally Wade, and so he said to his wife
in the Catawba Indian language to give the book to Sally; it
belonged to Sally. And Sally remembered that. Chief Blue's
grandson Gilbert remembers some of the chants that his grand-
father used to do. I have a tape recording of some of the
chants. I don't think...he doesn't understand all of the words,
but there's some of it left. And as I visited around among
them, I found that lots of them remember certain words.

0: Certain words?

E: But they do not speak it. You're exactly right--the spoken
language is really gone.

0: And we found out that...like, for instance, there is a word--
and I have yet to pick up the right accents in it--but it's
a word from my understanding for a child to behave. There's
been one or two times I've been out there, and they may say
something in a language that I do not know of. It would quiet
down the children in some way or another, and I have yet to
pick up the actual word of it. I hope eventually to get it down
pat, what that word is.

E: You don't know that word, do you Mrs. Blue?

B: No, I don't.

0: But this one here I notice was used by Mrs. Sanders on one of her
grandchildren, this particular word. And it's very interesting
to us, so we'd like to pick it up and compare it with some of
the earlier writings of the words of the Catawba Nation.















E: It's a wonderful thing we have tapes that we can hear the
word, the actual sounds, isn't it?

0: Right. But at the time we were doing our research, we were
not able to reveal our identity to them on account of we were
afraid they might be hostile to the fact of what we were trying
to do. When anybody thinks of archeology, they think of digging
up things, which is totally untrue. Archeology...they may make
pit holes, but as far as digging up anything, they do not. In
fact, they try to put preserver on whatever they dig up, and
then stick it back in the ground, cover it back up, and try to
get a law passed to put a tombstone...if it's a graveyard, put
a tombstone there recognizing it, so therefore that no one else
can go in there and destroy it--the burial ground. So this is
the whole idea behind archeology, and when we first went in
there, we had to keep our identity secret due to the very fact--
they was scared that we would dig up anything of theirs, belongs
to their ancestors.

E: Now, tell us about your forthcoming book. What's the purpose
of your book, and what are the main features of your book?

0: Well, the purpose of the book was actually the history of this
section of Lancaster County. But after we got to digging into
the history of the Catawba Indians, it went out a little bit
further, and I went out a little bit further, and so the first
chapter will actually be on the Catawba Nation. It will consist
of the Indian history, an outline more or less, giving my idea
of how Indian Land itself come about; and it will give an outline
of the history over York, Chester, and Lancaster County. Then,
in the second chapter, we will go into the early settlement of the
Catawba Nation, and then as we go on into it, we'll go into the
history of the Cherokees, and so forth in this area. So we
actually started off as the history of Indian Land, and then we
had to go outside and get the outside history in order to show
really how Indian Land come by its name. How Indian Land really
come by its name was on the 1825 map, and it's writ across it,
"Catawba Indian Land." Where in Lancaster County it's not writ
that way.

E: Your book will also contain maps and charts and pictures?

0: Right. It'll contain 150 pictures altogether...maps and charts
and pictures and so forth. And it'll be roughly 500 to 700 pages.















E: Now, who is the publisher of your book?

0: We have not directly said, yet. We've got three people in mind
that we're planning on dealing with. Today I'm going to meet
with one of them, and it's according to who offers the best
deal for the best price and the best work.

E: There's lots of libraries and individuals who'll be greatly
interested in that book coming out. You're very much interested
in the land grants, too, of the Indians, is that right?

0: Very much so. We have a complete xerox copy of the land grant.
It's really amazing how we come by this. I knew that...in the
land grant, the South Carolina Archives, that there were two
superintendents that I knew of, which was Hugh White and William
Pettit. Well, William Pettit is on my wife's side, and therefore
we knew pretty much so that it was not in William Pettit's family.
So we got to talking to Hugh White, who is the great-great grandson
of Hugh White, and come to find out that he has the book. I
asked permission to look at it, and I looked at it and saw the
condition that it was in, and I asked him permission to take it
to the South Carolina Archives and have it photographed, micro-
filmed, page by page. He's given me this permission, so through
Dr. Lee and myself we was able to get this on microfilms, and
release it to the other public libraries and institutions that
would like to have it. This will be the first time the whole land
grant book will be revealed to the public.
If I haven't accomplished anything else as a historian, I
feel like I've accomplished this much. And we're very proud of
doing that part of this. But the land grant book itself contains
144,000 acres that would normally be the Catawba Indians' in 1808,
and it starts at that date. That's when the first land grant was
given.

E: Did you follow through on what happened to the parcels of land
if the Indians sold them or leased them?

0: Yes. In fact, the land grant book itself goes through 1826, and
it pretty much shows the change of hands in it already, and then
you can very easily follow it through from there through the
South Carolina Archives. It pretty well has the full information
in it now. This was the only link they really needed in South
Carolina.

E: Will your book contain anything concerning the schools of the
Indians?

0: Yes, it'll contain a little bit of the history of the schools.
It won't be too awful much other than the dating process. The
first one who was the elder of the Mormon church who started
the school. It'll contain a little bit of him. It'll be a
small sketch, more or less, due to the fact that it would not















concern the history of Indian Land. But we'd still like for
them to know how the Mormon church came about, and also how
the school itself came about.

E: Do you have any pictures of the school or the teachers in
those early days?

0: No. We have not gone that far into that. Like I say, it's
going to be a small sketch, so therefore we did not go into
that far a scale. I hope some day, after all the artifacts
of York County, Chester, and Lancaster is gotten together,
that perhaps we'll be able to put a complete book of the
Catawba Nation together. This will be a combination of Dr.
Lee, Dr. Stephenson, and myself working on it. We've already
talked about it within the next four or five years.

E: How do you get a roll or a list of the Indians who are living
in the areas now?

0: You can get that through the South Carolina Archives in the
Indian Affairs. You can also...through Mrs. Brown's book, if
you're willing to dig deep enough, you can connect between
the land grants. Mrs. Brown's book in the Indian Affairs Office
today pretty well connects your tribes and your people together.
The only trouble we have is...if you remember the Catawba Indians,
if they were married to a white man, the child would be on the
tribal roll, but if it if it was a Catawba man with a white
woman, the child would not be on the Catawba roll. So therefore,
this is where you have a little bit of trouble there as far as
bringing out some of the names in the Indians. Also, you can
break down a lot of names through the...the Catawba Women usually
gave the surname of the white man, and you can find a great deal
of information.

E: What do you mean by the surname?

0: A surname can be...well, Brown--that's a surname. Actually,
there was a Thomas Brown, a white man. His son was of an
Indian woman, and was named Thomas Brown too. We feel like
that besides them adopting the English name, they also picked
up these surnames through their contact with the white man.
















B: That's just what we was talking about. You know, it's kind
of hard to get these odd names, find out where they came in,
like this Stevens. Take Chief Blue--his mother was a Brown,
and his father was a white-man, a Blue. Well, he took his
father's name.

0: That's right.

B: And then the next children that his mother had were Browns.
There were two of them, and they they took their father's name;
he was an Indian. They took the Brown, so there was a family with....

0: With two different names.

B: Blue and Brown. And you know this...is it Clifford or Clifton
Blue?

0: Clifton.

B: Here in North Carolina. Well, in some way he's related to
Chief Blue.

0: Right.

B: So that's how the names came about, and it's kind of hard to
keep track of them, because the child would take the father's
name. It would be an Indian name most of the time.

0: That's right. And then also the woman, just like you say, could
have two sets of children by two different fathers, and therefore
have two different names in the same family. This is where you
run into a lot of conflict, and this is why I'm checking my wife's
ancestors out now--so I can kind of work some of this through.

B: I have known for a mother to have four children...

0: I've only known three.

B: ...that each one had a different name.

0: I've only known three in a family. And that's through some of my
research dating back....















E: The Indians intermarried with the whites, but they never inter-
marry with the Negroes that I've ever known. Do you found a case?

0: No, they have never integrated with the Indians whatsoever that
we can find in histories. There's no signs, clues whatsoever.
In fact, they actually put the Negro in a lower class than the
white people put them in. And so the Catawba Indians thought.
well of themselves not to have come about this intermarriage
with Negroes.

E: The Indians you meet today, do you find they still have that
pride in their tribe and their ancestry?

0: To a certain extent. By this, what I mean is...the Catawba
Indians, they're proud of their ancestry. They're proud of
the fact that they have not integrated with the Negroes.
They're not as proud as far as...I don't know exactly how to
put it; they don't seem to have the proudness to really get
out and put forth a little bit of this effort that you and I
are putting forth in writing this history of us. If they had
done it back before Chief Blue even came along...it'd been a
great help and a great assistance to historians if the Catawba
Indians had just wrote down bits and pieces of information that
would concern history.

E: So many of them could not read or write, of course. Chief Blue
memorized large passages of the Bible, but he himself could not
read. He taught in the church and wonderful leading the church.
Am I correct, Mrs. Blue?

B: That's right. He could not read.

E: And so back behind him it was oral tradition that was handed
down?

0: Oh, yes. We realize that, but we would...we found out that
they really did not care to keep it up. They have lost it,
have they not, through the years?

E: I find that young people in schools today do not know their
history; and when you remind them of some stories of their
ancient tribe, their faces brighten they're so happy to know
something of their past. I wish they knew more about their
history.















0: This is what I'm hoping that it'd come out in my book. It's
the fact that it's going to have to be the younger generation
now that follows through with my work and your work and all of
Mrs. Brown's work, and so forth. They're going to have to
follow through with this, and start searching for information
that will concern their own tribe. If we can get the younger
generation...like, for instance, I understand pottery is not
even being done by the younger generation.

B: No sir, it isn't.

0: If we can get them to follow through with this art...it's going
to be lost one of these days, just as their language is lost,
and unless the younger generation takes up, the Catawba Indians
are going to actually lose their identity.

E: Now, Mrs. Blue, you told me, I believe, that you could work all
week making pottery for the sum of money that you've earned in
one day working somewhere else. Isn't that right?

B: That's right.

E: So that's why the younger people don't....

B: That's why they're not interested at all--just as soon as they
finish school, they get jobs that would pay them as much,as you
say, in a week, as we would make maybe in a month or two months.

0: Well, there's no doubt there. I'll give you a good example:
My mother is in the ceramic business; she runs a beauty shop
too. And therefore, I can't understand...just like mine is the
barber profession, but even still, I took all this on myself.
I'd like to see some of these younger children to take this other,
if nothing else, as a hobby. To keep it up and learn this tradition
that has been left by the Catawbas.

E: It's a pity it isn't taught more in the schools too. Now, you're
speaking of the younger generation--don't you find a large number
of young Catawba Indians are pushing forward in business and
electronics and mechanical works of all kinds?

0: There's no doubt. There's no doubt. They're pushing forward,
but they're pushing forward, I think, to a certain extent, into
the white man's world where they've always done it, since 1840.
















They push forward into the comfort and the way of living
of the white man, which I think is good to a certain extent,
but when we lose our tradition that's when we lose a valuable
part of our lives. You and I, we even check our genealogy out,
and I think it's only fair that the Catawba Indians have that
much interest in their own tradition. It's good and fine for
them to go the white man's way, but still hold onto some of
the traditions.

E: And Mr. Osborne, you're not only writing your book, but I notice
you've made so many speeches, and written newspaper articles.
I believe you were on an educational program on TV last week,
is that correct?

0: That's correct. Yeah, I was interviewed by Bill Bell of
cable TV, on Channel 2, and it was on the artifacts of the
Catawba Indians. This was really new to me. I've never done
it before, and I found out that really that's what the public
needs. The education in the fact that...like, for instance,
I went to my doctor's office, and it was located in Fort Mill,
and one of the receptionists did not even know there was any
Catawba Indians left; did not even know where the reservation
was. That's how little informed the public are today, and I
think it should be turned around a little bit.

E: Now what about the newspaper articles you've written, or the
interviews you've given?

0: Yes. I've had articles where the archeology was up here staying
with me three days, and they were on the pottery up there with
Mr. Nesbitt, where I understand you're getting some of the clay
from his property. I have another article that was an interview
where I'm with Dr. Stephenson there at Columbia. And also the
state wrote out anarticle on what's happening in South Carolina,
and it was on the book that's coming in the near future. Then,
also I have Mrs. 's article on "The Cherokee Crosses the
Catawba in Peace," which I thought was right humorous, and enjoyed
it very much. My other bulletin board there, it contains names,
dates, places and maps, and so forth that sometime I have to keep
it before my eyes in order to remind me to do something about it.
So I use the board to tack these notes up to remind me.















E: Is the manuscript of your book completely finished?

0: No, ma'am, we have not completely finished it. We've started
working on it, and we hope to have it ready by the last of
February. It could run a couple of weeks more over that. I
just got a manuscript of the wife of Mr. Charles Spratt, and
Mrs. McCloud, which I was reading a little bit of it before
I met you. It was written by Thomas Dewey Spratt, and it was
a recollection of the Spratt family when they first settled
here, which I'm sure is going to be right interesting to read
and glance through and compare notes with him on account of
my wife comes off the.... That goes back to our genealogy.
My wife comes off the Morrow side, and if you remember, the
Morrows are kin to Billy Graham, the singer. And so we found
out also that Jane was kin to him and this Morrow. Allen
Morrow, James and Matt Morrow, who was one of the first settlers
in this area of Lancaster County. Then Allen Morrow donated
the first church land in this area. So this is where we got
tied up in it ever more so.

E: You spoke of the Indian Land school, and another of these posters
of artifacts are going to be given to Indian Land school. Is this
right?

0: Right. And also maps and documents that we have gathered. I do
not have the room for all of this, and so therefore I'm going
to set it to good use by turning it over, on account of naturally
you can't print word for word of every documents, and print every
map that you have, so therefore the best place to put them is in
a library. And so between Fort Mill and Lancaster, where the
Indian Land...we will donate these maps and documents.

E: Now, I know you've made talks to the children in school, and
you've found an increasing interest in the Catawba history?

0: Yes. I find out they're interested due to this fact: when I was
coming along--and I'm sure when you was coming along--when we
studied history, it did not consist of history within this area.
It was always history outside the area. So, where now they find
out that history is here on their own homeland, and this is making
history more important to them now by knowing that [Indian word]
camp was out here on Branch. The Catawba Indians were all
over the area here, and the first settlers were some of their own
kin and so I find out that they are even asking for more information
in this area.















E: Do you know how many children in the Indian Land school or
the Fort Mill school are of Indian descent? Are there many?

0: No. We do not know. Just like go back t my wife--I do not
know for sure yet on my wife; it's just a theory that we're
working on. We're trying to foresee it. We done worked out
three generation on her, and we're on the fourth one now.
I'm to work with one of the secretaries at the Mormon church,
and see if we can find any information out of it. But we do
not have any idea. We know they are; we know there is just a
few on account of most of them still...the full-blooded ones
are still within Rock Hill area. The ones that are descendants
of the Indians that,so far off in.the line, goes back to what
we talking about: so many children was in that generation that
the father--and especially if there was a Indian man and a white
woman--why, then, it was not put on Catawba rolls. So it's hard
to check into that type of information there. Therefore, we
cannot give a number of people that have got Indian blood in
them.

E: Mrs. Blue, have you any question you want to ask before we go?

B: No, I don't believe so.

E: It's been so fascinating and so interesting, and you say you
could talk for hours, and I believe you could. There is so
much yet to discuss and find out about, and your work is almost
complete on your books, and yet you still have so many facets
you'll still be working on.

0: Oh, yes. I'll still be working with the South Carolina archeology
on the artifacts in York County and Chester County. Like I say,
even though I'm finished mostly as far as the information on my
book, I still gather information as far as Lancaster, South
Carolina, and down into Great Falls, and over into Rock Hill and
York and so forth. So my work has really just begun on the
artifacts where I'm leaving off in the book. My main interest
this year was getting the history of this Indian Land for the
book, and I gathered up enough information to give the history
before Indian Land was known as Indian Land, and so really I'm
looking forward to the information we will be able to gather from
here on.


E: I'm sure it will be interesting, too.




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