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 Interview






Title: Interview with Mr. Daniel Chavis (July 19, 1971)
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 Material Information
Title: Interview with Mr. Daniel Chavis (July 19, 1971)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: July 19, 1971
 Subjects
Spatial Coverage: Lumbee County (Fla.)
 Notes
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
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Bibliographic ID: UF00007211
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Lumbee County' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: LUM 247

Table of Contents
    Copyright
        Copyright
    Interview
        Page 1
        Page 2
        Page 3
        Page 4
        Page 5
        Page 6
        Page 7
        Page 8
        Page 9
        Page 10
        Page 11
        Page 12
        Page 13
        Page 14
        Page 15
        Page 16
        Page 17
        Page 18
        Page 19
        Page 20
        Page 21
Full Text



COPYRIGHT NOTICE


This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
107) which allows limited use of copyrighted
materials under certain conditions.
Fair use limts the amount of material that may be
used.

For all other permissions and requests, contact the
SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida









LItP 247A

Page 1.

Interviewee: Danjiel Chavis

Interviwer: Adolph Dial

July 19.1971 mlh



D: This is July 19, 1971, Adolph Dial speaking. I'm here 'in the Burnt Swamp

ccatnunity,Burnt Swamp Township, not too far from the Union Chapel School,

about how many miles is it,Mr. 6 O e- c d 'n Mr. Chavis, a couple of

miles to uh, Union Chapel School. I'm here ;A in the vicinity of viAere

scae of the Lowry boys use to live,uh, and quite a few of themlhang out
,it 1 ( VSA
in this area for one reason or another as we shaEl see in] a few minutes.

I'm here interviewing Mr. Danny Chavis, th, Mr. Chavis, how old are you?

C: Eighty-two.

D: Eighty-two years old and you've lived in this cammmnity ost of your life?

C: Right.

D: Now, I believe h2. your father was a Mr. Amazar Chavis?

C: Right.

D: And who was Mr. Amazar Chavis' father?

C: William Chavis. -...

D: Now William Caavis was a member of the iuh Lowry Gang, the Henry Beea Lowy

Gang, is this correct?

C: Right.

D: Urn, I believe you told me a minute ago something about what happened to

William Chavis. Will you relate that story to re, as your dad told it?

C: w /n- - f ,when .uh my daddy never did even recollect seeing him.

D: Your daddy who was Amazar Chavis...

C: Amazar Chavis and his daddy was named William Chavis,but my daddy never









LUM 247A

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"did recollect seeing his daddy.

D: I see. And you never did hear him say uh what his /) was?

C: NI, I didn't, no I didn't.

D: Uh, did uh Mr. Amazar Chavis,uh, did he uh,help the outlaws out in any way?

I know he was not a, I know he was not a member of the S Y Gang, but did

he ever aid them in any way?

C: He use to nold balls for 'em.

D: Nbld balls ?

C: That's right
any
D: You don't rerreber seeing him imldlballs ir your, late days, do you?|

C: No, I don't.

D: Uh, do you know if he aided them in any other way, like iaybe spending the

night in the shuc nam or something like that?

C: I don't, I don't.

D: Un, do you umin your uh conversation over the years uh with sane of your

uh friends ad your relatives, whidc one of the Lswy, Gang vould you consider

was the most, uh the one to be feared rost, the most fearful one of

the owry Gang?

C: I always thought that Steve Lowry.

D: Do you have any particular reason for feeling that Steve IRwy-Las perhaps

ed-at a irore notorious ran than Henry Bear

C: I always stayed with ny grandmother and my grandfather. I stayed with, them

teh three years and they reported mhe JAI time and again.

D: Now which one of your grandmother and grandfather was that?

C: Old man Hughie Oxendine and Liza Oxendine.









LUM 247A

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D: Hughie Oxendine and Liza Qxendine.

C: PiThat's right.

D: Uti, speaking of uh Mr. Hughie Oxendine who was also iy great uncle, isn't

.that right?

C: Right,

D: Um, there wee several of those Qxendine boys, uh, there was iuh Hughie and

And Qxendine and uh, three of these boys Iuh went down to Georgia, what
that
was their nanes? The three w1went to Georgia? Sonny,...

C: Uncle Sonnyvas one and Uncle Henry was one, I don't recall the other one.

D: I believe he was Charles Weste.'

C: I think that was right, I think that's correct.

D: Now uh, back in those days, uh, lots of' people went to down in Georgia.

Why were they going down there?

C: Well, here,yau couldn't geet-ft-get a job at that time, I doubt iE7 if

you ouldjwent out here and got a job at that tiTe for 50 a day. And they
could go down there at -r t - & T 'L 4 W ,

"A" still down in there every two or three, I

say every two or three miles, and they could go down there and get anywhere F

a dollar to a dollar and a quarter a day to dip turpentine or scrape boxes.

D: So rost of the people who left and, went :to Georgia at this time were in the

turpentine business?

C: That's right, that's right, plenty of stills out there, that's all there

was out there, you couldn't find,- you wouldn't have found an acre of land

noeres out there the state of Georia y that, you wouldnthae










LUM4 247A

Page 4. Thi



found an acre of land in one spot,it was all turpentine stills.
that
D: Now uh, yes, I noticed sonm of them who went down in Georgia given came

back and they namnd their children after some of the cities in Georgia...
I I
C: 'That's right.

D: I know one fellow's naned Valdosta* IPia and another woman whose name is

Rochelle.

C: That's right.

D: Now, do, do you renmerber the people going down into Georgia working in the

turpentine industry or was that before your time?

C: I recollect 'em working down there. My daddy, he, he drose a wagcn and

Uncle Nelson, he worked at a still and Uncle Bud, he worked at boxes.

D: Mr. Amazar went down and to Georgia too and worked there?

C: Well, yeah, he stayed down there, my daddy stayed in Georgia about fifteen

or twenty year or longer.

D: You were born after he returned?

C: 1, was two weeks when ha he left me and went to Georgia.

D: Is that right?

C: Right.

D: And would he crme home often to see you?

C: No, he didn't came hame at all until he' conr hame to stay.

D: Well, was he uh and your mother parted 'at that tine?

C: No, they both, the whole family,' us, was in Georgia. TA7Ae hoe I ..

D: You went tb Georgia yourself?

C: Yeah, all of us, the whole family.

D: ell, new uh, did you grw up in' Georgia? How old were you when you left?









LUM 247A

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C: When I left from there, I was about, when we core to this country, I was

about twelve years old.

D: So you reirerber being in Georgia?

C: Yeah, yeah, I scraped a fe,- scraped a few pines out there.

D: You did? So, then uh, let's see, you're uh eighty-two, so at least, and

this is 1S71, so about 1890, people were out there working in the turpen-

tine industry.

C: That's right, that's right.

D: And even after 1900, sume of them were there after 1900.
> i- be-
C: When they-r working out. there in that turpentine, out there, and they'd
;+
hear tis thunder like we hear the thunder this evening,they wouldn't even

even hold up their heads to see where the cloud was,they'd take their tur-
vu.0r ;f .thL e W ^s
pentine w-ere, tihe7 dipping turpentine.where they dip it,they'd threw it
S'inq bo y&^
down and L<.
down and let out for that shanty,boy, they didn't even hold c their head

to see where that cloud was. Them cyclones down there, they'd sweep every-
ever
thing that would go,but they wouldn't hardlylbe over from, I'd say from

fifty to seveifty-five to a hundred yards wide. Now we have them no end

wide almost.

D: Now un, they uh, well back in that day,; don't you un find that uh,your par-

ents and maybe your grandparents, didn't they have a little more respect for

thunder and lightning than the people have today?

C: Right they, did, right they did. WE wevt, wen we'd always ,we'd always
j+, l be
crawl unde- the bed-we-weve just as cain as we could be when the cloud .)Js

.accning up- when we was out there. Right.









LUI 247A

Page 6. mlh



D: You were taught this?

C: That's right, right, right. C: *"t'

D: So you refeber then, in Georgia, working in the turpentine business D:I

imagine, some people say it was a healthy job. h.

C: Yes. c: r'

D: Now you're eighty.. .,bu'll soon be eighty-two. =d I notice that uh your
CoJ I/c1 lancl
health is good, you've been in the swamps fishing today, down in pck.lar)d

Swamp.

c; Right.

D: And you go about every dayyour wife's home,

C: EVery day. Rabbit hunt all the winter.

D: You rabbit hunt all the winter. r

C: C'ver /,'- /< ooi.', ro/,1 i/ae /)s'iQe I

D: FEll, I notice that you were uh,uh, since I've been here, I noticed that

you siroked, four cigarettes, one right behind the other,lighting cne with

the other.S Now uh, how many cigarettes. you srrke a day?

C: I smoke about four or five packs of cigarettes a day and drink about three

coca-colas, four every day.

D: Four ar five packs?

C: Every day. .

D: What kind?

C: I'm on Chesterfields now.

D: You don't fool with the filters?

C: No, no, no filter.

D: -t never did seem to bother you? I
1 < ~~ ~~~~. .' '









LUM 247A

Page 7. mxlh



C: I never inhaled a drop in iry life unless I'm running in behind my beagles

and fall down.

D: Oh, I was wondering there if you were inhaling those cigarettes. You

don't inhale them?

C: Don't inhale them.

D: Never did?

C: Never did. I'd leave them this morning fishing and go early and come back

after dinner aid not even strike a iatch, one right after another one.

D: Well uh, do you get any joy out of smoking and not inhaling it?

C: Yeah, I d!., I, I couldn't live without iry cigarettes.

D: So you swoke four,inother words, a couple of cartons a week or more?

C: I smoke fohr or five packs every day.

D: Four or five packs every day. WEll, that's quite a bit of smoking, that's

quite a bit of smoking, I'll have to say it is. Now 1, uh, Mr. Chavis,

in, in your young days, well, before we get on that, let's go back to the

Henry Be Lowrgang there, did you ever hear what happened to Henry

io.wyrwhat was the stories told to you?.

C: my granddaddy and ny granrhother say hel died a natural death. That's what
they told ie.

D: Now what would they consider a natural death, do you suppose?

C: I would say a natural death'd be any kind of a sickness or he could've got

accident ad had, a gun fire off and kill him,but they said they just told me

he died a natural death.

D: Now Hughi exendine didn't believe that'he went away, did he?
SNo, no y gradady gran ersy e never did go y.
C: No, no my randdab my grandmother sey he never did go awy. :

f ( .









L.-1 247A

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D: Did you ever hear where, did you ever hear him say where they thought he

was buried?
nothing about
C: Never did, they never did nentiontthey saylwhere he had been. My grand g *dy
h ac
and my grandmother -a made them a many, a many, a many a cup of coffee.

D: The Lw=G GAng?

C: Yeah.

D: Is that right?

C: Many a cup of coffee.

D: Did they ever spend any night in their shuca ?

C: I wouldn't, if they did, I didn't hear them say so.
do
D: But you' know they'd cone by and get something to eat?

C: Many a cup of coffee and something to eat, a many meals did they give them,

many ones.

D' ich. one of the Iwcry-s)do you know uh?

C: They just said the uTe Gang-I wouldn't say which one. I know Henry

a/c S-- eeJ, was in it.

D: So, they, they knew them.quite well?

C: Right. Yeah, they knew them-they: knew them well-they were good friends,

good 'friends. .

D: Un, as you ok at it today, whether Heriy .Bear X died or whether he went

away, would you consider him just as great a man either way?

C: Yeah, I would, yeah. '

D: Un, you feel that uh, uh, do you feel that Henry Mea towryade a great

contribution to the Indian race? r

C: I think he. did, in my estimation.









LUTM 247A

Page 9. lh


D; Yes, I. do too, Now,uh, why do you feel that he made a great contribution?

C: I think he done what he done, I think he had a call to do it and I think

he done it br his l.

D: What do you think his call was?

C: Well, I think he, he was treated wrong and he fust tighktfor his rights.

D: And, uh, do you feel that he helped the entire Indian race following him?

C: i sure do, I think he stood on his own and helped the who&e, entire group.
Jao '4 han/-
D: What do you think would happened to us if Henry hadmen1done what he did?

C: Well, we might have wiped off of the map.

D: Do you think they'd have taken our land, and so forth?'

C: Yeah., they took it anyhow and they took it before and they took everything '-

h c more or less anyhow.

D: So you say he made a good contribution?

C: That's my estimation.

D: When you were dcwn in Georgia there, to the best of your remrerrancei do,

do you recall uh were there] many of our people down there, there many of the

Indians?

C: There's right good, good bit of 'em in there,right good bit of 'em.

D: Did they associate mostly together all the time or did they...

C: Yeah, they had, yeah, they we Uncle Bud had one die and is buried out hhere

and Uncle Bud would go, as long as his health ie good, he'd go out there

to that graveyard, and we, I had a brother die out there-his name is Jesse

and uh,he died out there.

D: You had a brother Jesse te die in' Georgia?

C: qo die dil in Georgia.









LUM 247A

Page 10. mlh



D; And he was buried there?

C: Right.

D: What, where were you um, ium, where um, when you were down in Georgia, in

what part of Georgia, do you recall the town you were near?
C ion gP'^yr lc C/d y'In
C: G-Cai n, not too far from Enas, Georgia-we was out there in Griage-



D: In ..

C: Yeah.
F)'T2.$ / D: Not too far from -eal. And um, why uh., wellhou spoke of scne who were,

who were buried there. Do you recall any who were brought back here when

they died?

C: I don't recall none that was uh ...

D: In other words, it was too expensive to try to get them back here by train?
4 icln'
C: That's right, that's right, that' right. They didn't have no have ro am-

bulance and things then. They didn't have no way then, if they did, I know

nothing of it, they didn't have no way:,of embalming people like they got now.

D: Uh, how did you uh, how did you go to Georgia or you dcn't renmaber your

trip thereyou went when you were two weeks old, I believe you said t t howY

iho w did you return? n


ol I t:-
J row-
C: We, we went on a train and came on a train. IV daddy dew a two-horse wagon
^*-^ai dro E/\
fran here to GEorgia and &_rw a tyo horse wagon back.fron, from Georgia

back here.

D: That's what you called a train? 2

C: Y-7' no. When we went out there,we wenE on a train, but I said my daddy

"
______]








LUM 247A

Page 11. mlh.


in his going out there, he drove a two horse wagon here to Georgia and

then he drove one back from here to Georgia.

D: And then got his family and went back on the taain?

C: That's right, that's right, that's right.

D: Went down there and made him somn money, came back and got his family...

C; He didn't have enough. mrney to com he hae tith most of them and 4e go down

there and somebody had to send at them. He had to send out at Uncle Benny.

D: Is that right? Now, golly, it looks to ie like all the people went to Georgia.

Now -hu, what were same of the,where were some of the other pla, do you know

of any other aces back then they went away and worked and what did they do?

C: I wouldn't say along then ,not at that time, now they all over the world,

but along then, that was more or less the only place you could h0 ar li o ;

-e go to, was Georgia, now they are over the whole world.

D: I see. Yes, they've scattered out quite a bit. UH, did ulhyou happen to go

into World War One?
b r
C: No, w if it had lasted three more days, I'd a been in it. I

didn't have a thing to do but get-up and go, it'd been three more days, I'd

have been gone. I had four brothers in "it.

D: Not many of our people haaseibeen away u. before that time and except to g96to
had
Georgia to work in turpentine, have'they?
-t1 c' 'ci.
C: That's right. -eraef3be a still there every three or four miles and then

their niggers oaaibe and my daddy ic k 'L.....' .....and they'd

kill a niggerlere and if he went over t*wsk at.that other still, three or

four miles, he was e I f r t, .man wouldn't even let him come get him.

D:. Was that right? i









LIM 247A
Paig 12, ll L


C: That's right.
D: ?Who wouldn't let him care get him?
a H'd
he man that he went .to a 1rking for different still. t go out to the other

still-that man wouldn't let 1as came on-&et ana get him.

D: Were there any of the, were there tS many black Ten killed over...?

C: They kill one about every Saturday night gambling.

D: Now did the Indians associateA'ith them any and gamble and so forth when they

were d7wn there?
No
C: Naw, no, not that I know'd of.

D: Y":all Iore or less uh stayed in your own little clans?

C: Yeah, what -iiey was, what, what, what Indians we had out there was a nice

group, was lhcle, we had Uncle uh Benny and William Chavis and his wife was

nared Avery and his girl was naired Molly and Mlly was gsela marry

"was ge&]aimarry ma rr ./, / r and ii,Uncle William, he'd sit in

the front' door with a Winchester, rifle and Avery, she'd sit in the other

door with a double barrel muzzleloader wh buckshot, was gcnna kill Buck

if he ever come to get the girl. And they was sitting in there and time

core to go to bed, the yard was all paled around with high paiing-- Well,

they s, Uncle William said "Mlly,4let's go to bed" and they went around

to lock for that gal / good G-d, she had crawled out e that back door and
her and that fellow. had been married two or three. hours and they was sitting

there with the gns cocked.

D: Did any of our people uh mrurdar anyone while they were dowan there as you

recall?

C: not at that period of tirr,but before then or later,

Old man Hfghie-Oxendine killed er uh one out there.









LU4 247A

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D: Alack man or a ...

C: No, he called an Indian and was sent to the penitentiary eM -'-c a- 7 .

he was sent to the peentiaxylifetime, he oe to this uny and they
hi's
got him -he was eent to the penitentiaryllifetime.

D: And L2=- Oxendine was sent to the pen?

C: The penitentiary]lifetime, yeah.

D: After he returned home, they picked him up?

C: That's right, that's right, that's right.
/ D: Cise Oxendine?

C: Lei'Oxendine.

D: And you can't recall the man's name that he murdered?

C: He was a Jones.

D: A Jones?

C: Yeah, a Jones. I don't recall his first name, but he was a Jones, I'm sure.

D: Do you uh. know anything about the incident of uh uh, BArnabas, Barnabas

they called him, uh who was supposed. to have been killed by the Oxendine

boys and then they left him, went "to Gedrgia-did this have something to

do with them going to Georgia? Want to tell me about this first?

C: I, I wouldn't know about that. I wouldn't knwc about that.

D: You don't recall that particular ihciderit?/:He was the first man buried in

the Prospect Cemetary and uh, I'll tell you the story about it sometime.

LU, Mr. Chavis, um, we were interrupted there with the telephone. Now uh,

oming back' to our conversation, ih you) young days, what were your young

days like? ;What did you do for entertaiTment and so farth? Just describe

your young years to me the best yoi can.
U i. ; .- ,









LUi 247A

Pace 14., tmlh


C: I use to have just as nice a horse and buggy as hit the road and there wasn't

many Indian people that had it and I enjoyed f1.-that horse and buggy, and

we'd have ball games and co hud ing and candy-pulling and...

D: What was the candypulling?

C: We'd have this here old, they use to have these cane flA's5 and they'd make

syrup and we'd take that syrup, you know, and pull candy and'- i45 /;'P be

good candy.

D: You'd make candy?

C: Yeah, we'dnake a good candy. We'd eat our own candylwe wouldn't put it on
no
salenor nothing, we'd just pull it and roll it and roll it and then it would

be good.

D: Did you go to church as a boy? ihat church did you first remember going to?

C: '-,-/', J5fAJ &down yorder on =mong #irr> hbtCnt.
/ .
D: /Ce ec/, Branch.

C: /e c Branch Church.

D: Now, you didn't live down there, did you?

C: Yeah. we lived down there in a little place called Hogdine and ,/ //' / f .-r .,. I

we stayed there.

D: I see. 'iat was the first church in this community you went to?

C: First church in this community I went to was Chapel out there.

D: Ah, I remeniber once the uh church was burned at Chapel over a church dispute-

uh, I'm not interested in who did it, but uh, what was the uh dispute that

caused the'church to burn?

C: I never did exactly learn but they burn it and way back there now,they stil
? ri c /-hg. /n e: !. ,, /. aA-burning up the depot up here at......
(I c .? -( J i h e ( e i q .1









LUI 247A

Page 15. mlh


and they come then what you would call'an FBI man there and.Uncle Andy was

running a blacksmith ship and he come, that man come down there and worked

with Uncle Andy in the blacksmith. shop, a white man, he came down and

worked with him, with him for two or three mrmths and he finally got ahold

of sonm stamps or something another They send Uncle Andy to the penitenti-

ary for that.

D: And did he pull time?

C: Yeah,yeah, yeah.

D: And he returned later?

C: That's right, that's right.

D: Now you spoke a while ago -f before we started recording,about how tough

the boys were back then and ufou, will you relate to me the incident where

one went away so he wouldn't have to kill someone?

C: That was Uncle Sonny and John 16-clea r killed Uncle Andy, Sonny, he just

left this country to keep from killing John o c k/
Andy had a son, his name was Henry and we don:tknow whether he is dead

or living. Tan and Neil might have went out there to see him and uh, that

is Uncle Andy's boy, the only boy that he had and he left this country

as a teen-age, he might have been around about eighteen,or twenty, twenty-

one years old. He left this county to keep from killing Jchn.

D: In other words, they figured if they lived here, one would have to go....

C: Tnat's right, right, one would have to go. And I don't know whether Uncle

Henry's ,. ousin Henry, I don't khow whether he is living or dead.now Tom

nor none of the rest of them don't know.

D: Well, do you think that uh, you think the boys back in that day were a little









LUM 247A

Page 16. mlh


B:raver than boys are today?
C: I )00( rU- said about that part of it,I mean, along then, in that

day, I'd imagine you could pick up a,1 out a'hundred men, out of them hun-

dred men, I doubt if you'd find over half a dozen men that would kill you.

Now, anybody today and his brother iwed kill you. Anybody kill you now.

D: ..I was thinking maybe it was just the opposite.

C: No sir. You could net have found a dozen men, Uncle Andy 4di just as scared

of as if he was a .__ ... Nobody messed with that

man-they was scared of him. Now,I'd grant it there ain't nobody scared of

nobody. Anybody kill you now, buddy. .They., kill you right now if they

know you had fifteen or twenty dollars on you before you got home-they kill

you for it, They wouldn't do it back then.

D: Did you ever participate in any log... logrolling?

C: Yeah, we use to over there cut eighty, about eighty-five acres of land over

there and we'd have them logs rolling ad roll them, that's the only way

it was. /4M,,>'9 t' ro///, 7 A 0,,--fj-- oy,

D: Who helped, you?

C: Atlas Scott, all bunch of them Sootts, 3nd bunch.....

D: In other words, did you ever have a get-together and the women cook and

logrolling....?

C: Right, right, yeah, yeah.

D: Touldn't charge any nmney? ^7A+ ep a 0 h the'r .
a
C: T!at's right, That right, many a orie of them.

D: In o their words, it was a large oooperdtive effort?

C: That's rihht. Right.


,! ;i










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D: What about uh bamraising?

C: Yeah, we'd have all of them bamnaisings, we'd have a cornhudcing, and we'd

have a liquor there and you wouldn't get a drink of liquor,:'along then you

had these big coizshucking, you wouldn't get a drink of liquor until you

found and you were shucking that corn,you'd find a red-yellow corn, when youc
-4 inr c
&fead that )d-yellow corn, you gotta take a liquor.

D: And scaetires you could get to kiss the prettiest girl there too?

C: That's right, that's right, right, right.

D: You didn't have many red ears of corn in that?

C: There you g t maybe shuck two or three eas before you came to one.

D: I don't know what they would do with this hybrid corn today, they'd never

get that drink, would they?

C: No, no.

D: What did they keep that liquor in? Wht was that they called that container?

C: That nans was Jinryjohns. '

D: Jiirnjohns? '

C: Yeah.

D: -hy'd they call it a jimryjohn?

C: I don't know, that was just a name ~for iE. I ain't drunk a drop of liquor,
fo. wher-e.-
I ain't drunk no liquor since it got th6-wla you could order it and that's,

we use to have to order our liquor fran' RiTchmnd, Virginia.

D: And did you drink a lot in your young days?

C: No, I never did, I wasn't, I wasn't badtfor it, I got drunk a few times in

life, not bad.

D: Well un, back in that day, you know today you don't find many of our people
!: ]
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drinking wine, but back in that day,didn't most of them drink wine and cider?

C: Yeah, I, mry grandmother and granddaddy when I 'stayed at them three years

and they'd have it on the breadfast table and dinner table, every,everytiri

you went eat there, that wine on 'the table.

D: Is that right?

C: Yeah, but we.-wouldn't get drunk off of it.

D: What was education like in your young days?
p P4 s/ and was,
C: They'd have about four months school. aAn Steve Hammnds was teaching and
had P.
teaching at Joe ar63//e1 5 and we f about eight, about seven/ eight miles

to go there and back and the weather would be so rough, we wouldn't have)

out of them four rmnths, we wouldn't have elgE mronths e4 school.

D: So uh, what education you received you uh, you did it on your own?

C: That's right, right, ribht.

D: Now you've been i pretty successful farmer what, do you attribute that to?

C: Well, I was always a hard working'boy,n ver did do nothing but farmhand I

always worked, tried to accumulate a living, and so I got a pretty good

start now,I got a hundred and tweity-file acres of land here in this here

site.

D: Um, how lorg have your people beeni in this community? How many generations

could you co back? 1

C: 'Bout threeor four.

D: In other words, now you're un, do you know what William Chavis' father's name

was?

C: No, no, no.

D: Do you know what Hughie Oxendine' father's name was?

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C: I never did heat being said. I might, if I did, I forgot it.

D: How lang you think these people been around here or -uh, did you ever hear

any oldtiners say where they thought their greatgrandparents or some of them

care from?

C: Up there at the Oxendine graveyard, they got''' '' but they
L*P bWr,.4, ^rL '
didn't that ____ there tf-a ap there, and) same of them things

ta& u there oer a 'hundred and fifty'years, but they ain't got no name on,

on 'em1 17Jeu rdlnA'f hLvo, +fJel2 bur)r't ?o fi-olb$ s^fO

D: when do you think, when do you think, yes I know, when do you think that uh

when do you think that uh,uh cerretary was started? Do you have any idea?

C: Not the least, not the least.

D: Did you ever hear um Mr. Hughie Oxendin6 say whether it was there when he

was a boy or not?

C: I don't recall that, I don't recall that.

D: And where was Mr. Hughie born, do you recall?

C: I don't recall that.

D: Now, Mr. Chlavis, you're a LuTbee Indian. Are you quite proud to be Indian?

C: I enjoy it-and I like it fine.

D: ULh, you would take this in preference tb being anything else?

C: Right.

SD: Uh, don't you think in recent years uh, that uh, people are stressing

their identity mrre and do you feel this is good?

C: Right. Yes; & t

D: Did you get to attend the Fourth of July celebration over in ...?

C: Yeah, I was right there.



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D: What'd you tink of that?
c: ;it, 4- I
C: I enjoyed it,like ; -i- In. C

D: So you think it has a place?

C: Right, right.

D: New uh, you helped your dad lots on the farm and so forth and so on, and uh,

do you recall any uh, uh interesting incidents as you worked with him that

happened during your boyhood days?

C: I don't recollect any ,no,no.

D: Well uh, tell ne about the uh, tell me about the uh the story you told me

just a minute ago about the horsesin the river.

C: a fellow driving the kerosene wagon, X was three mules pullag

that kerosene, one in the middle and two on each side. And they'd broken

the bridge there, and them mules was ugre ing -the man, he couldn't swim

but he happened to be looking up to get out was Adriving it and my daddy

took his pocket knife and went down andIcut the harness off of every one of

them mules 8nd old Shuss McCloud give him five gallons of kerosene for it.

D: He saved the mules and he got five gallons of kerosene?

C: ScaTbody cl&ited he got five hundred dollars-each. one of them mules then was

valued a, them three mules was valued at eighteen hundred dollars and he

went down and saved every one of them mnles and all he got was five gallons

of kerosene.

D: How long ago was that, do you knao about cs?. ?ta" e

C: I would say that has been bbout, it had to be about seventy, sixty, seventy

years ago.

D: And you weaviith him at that time? n
A r

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LUM 247A

Page 21. mlh

C: No, I wasn't with. him, no, no.
OA
D: You were not with. him on that, that day?

C: No, no.

D: In other words, he was delivering oil just like you deliver oil today with

the truck?

C: That's right, the mules was pulling it.

D: What'd people use oil for then, just mostly their lamps I guess?

C: Lanps and kerosene lamps and things and all. When we was out there in Georgia,
cbin cA es
had a little bitty lamp iy wife, iry mother was in there killing 6eme-s

off, off of the bed, and uh, she turned it over an one of them there little

bitty youuguns and my daddy took their kenosene, I mean he took a quilt

and smothered. her an ut her out, but she .stayed in bed for months and months

and months f-ter that.

D: .




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