Subjects: James Allen Locklear
Interviewer: Adolph Dial
D: Continuing here with an interview, August teh third 1869, uh, 1969 oh, about
to go back a hundred years talking about old times here. Uh, Adolph Dial
speaking. Uh, I have with me here uh, two young fellows uh, who-are- great
hunters uh,i they'probably do as much hunting in the community as uh, and other
Lumbee in Robeson county uh, one, one fellow, let's see, what is your name?
L: James A. Locklear.
D: How old are you Mr. Locklear?
L: I'll be fifty-nine the twenty-fourth of February.
D: And uh, one of my old buddies here, a cousin of mine uh,
M: James Moore.
D: James Moore. Uh, Mr. Locklear, you, you've been a great hunter, I've known
you for a long time. Do you still do some hunting?
L: I do.
D: Uh, tell me what your hunting's like now.
L: Well, it's not as good as it used to be. Adn I have a, I can't get through the
woods -too good, I have to take my time. And drag along and get to the dogs have
treed the best I can.
D: Did you hunt as a boy?
L: I did.
D; Do we have as much game as we had during your boyhood days?
D: We have more today, Uh, but when you say more, what kind are you speaking of.
D: What's the most, uh, the largest number of coons that you've been able to take
in one night.
L: I have taken four in one night and left two that I could have got, and I told
the boys that was enough, I wasn't gonna take no more.
D: I believe I beat you,; on one night we took something like uh, seven, I believe.
Mr. Land had seven one night, also,
L: Well, I was with him that night,
D: You were kith him that night.
D: I see. 'Course you were speaking just of your own, eh?
L: Yeah, I was speaking of my own.
D: I see. Now uh, what about fish, uh, ...
L: Well, I love to fish.
D: Well, don't, do you think there's many fish in the river as used to-be?
L: No there's not.
D: Um, do you uh, do you uh, seem to enjoy yourself, your hunting life as well as
you did during your boyhood days?
L: I do. In fact more. I have some young dogs now, and while I've had some good tree
dogs, I have some young dogs now, and I really enjoy working with them.
D: Now Mr. Moore, uh, you hunt a lot, too, why do you hunt?
M: I hunt coons and quail.
D: Uh, why do you hunt?
M: Oh. For relaxation.
D: For relaxation. Uh, you enjoy it.
M: I do.
D; What's the most, uh, the largest number of coons that you've been able to take in
one day? One night?
D: Uh, do you fellows do any day hunting of coons?
L: A little. I've done some, not too much.
D: Can you tree as many in the day as at night?
D: What do you think, Mr. Moore?
M: Well I, I never hunted in the daytime other than possibly, probably about one
day last year, I didn't catch but one. However, my friend Jim, here, he's for-
gotten about one day he went and caught eight. That day. There's there's three
of us together that day, and my dogs treed.,,
D; Oh, well, I was speaking of one hunting party.
L: Well uh, my dogs treed three, and I found one up a tree myself, And the other
party with me, he found four and he killed them.
D: What's the largest, have you ever been fox hunting?
L: Well, I been fox hunting maybe three or four times, in the last twenty years.
D: What's the longest chase you've ever known, the longest distance you've known
a fox to travel.
L: Approximately five or six miles.
D: Gray fox or white fox? Uh, no, I mean gray fox or red fox?
L: Uh, probably a gray fox, I never seed it, that's )several years ago, before
I hear told that hte red fox was in this country.
D: Uh, Mr. Moore, what fox will travel farther, the uh, gray fox or the red fox?
M: I'm not an authority on fox hunters, however I feel that the red fox will travel
farther. If he's ever, if the dogs'get behind him right. Um, he's a whole lot
harder to, to take with the dogs. Usually they shoot him, to get one.
D: Let's see now, Mr, Locklear, which one of the Locklears are you? Uh, what was
your father's name?
L: My father ___._. Locklear.
D: And what was uh, pour grandfather's name?
L: Colee Locklear on My Lather's side, my mother's side was Nick Locklear.
D: And uh, what was Mr. Locklear's father's name?
L: Malachi Locklear.
D: Malachi Locklear. And what was his father's name?
L: I couldn't answer it 'cause I don't know.
D: Now who is this fellow Hector Locklear?
L: That was my grandmother's father.
D: That was your grandmother's father. You believe all the Locklears here are
L: No, not all of them.
D: Do you think if they go back far enough they would be kin?
D: Locklears' been around a long time, haven't they?
L: OH yeah. Yeah.
D: Um, what is your opinion on Henry Barry Lowery? Do you think he did any good
for the Indian race?
L: Yeah, in some place I think he did.
D: Uh, what, would you elaborate on that a little?
L: No, I'd rather not.
D: ALright, Mr. Moore, what do you have to say about Henry? Fell feee to speak up.
M: Yes, I think that Henry Barry Lowery was a credit to the race. I feel like that
had it not been for him we would be a whole lot farther behind than we are right
D: In other words you think that his cause was justified.
M: I do.
D: In other words, uh we go to war today and we have heros and we pin medals on
people, and so forth, you feel that uh, we might as well do this for Henry Barry
M: I definite ly do.
D: And you feel that there should be monument erected to his honor somewhere
in the uh, Lumbee are?
M: I do, and I'111 contribute to that.
D: What do you feel, Mr. Locklear?
L: I do, and I would contribute to it.
D: Do you gentlemen feel that uh, race relations uh, in Robeson county have improved
greatly uh, over the years since your boyhood days or would you say they are about
the same, or uh, would you care to speak on that?
M: I feel that they's improved, but I still think there's room for more improvement.
D: Mr. Locklear?
L: That's right. We have improved great bit and, still room for more,
D: Still room for more. Now when you say there's still room for more, would you
give me an example of what you mean?
L: Well uh, just an example, we have lots of folks, Indian folks, right there in
Robeson county that, way back, which according to history they have some mixed
blood in them. And we can, in the course of time, worm that out. And we...
D: Well don't' you feel that the uh, recent supreme court decisions that uh, fo
course we know there is no pure race, there's mixed race in all people, uh, don't
you feel that uh, eventually man will be uh, man; don't, don't you feel that a man
ought to be judged on what he is, his character and so forth, rather than his race?
L: That's right. Uh, just for an instance, a man with a good character, say he don't
steal, he don't drink, and _, never been a mean man, he
should be judged as a good, clean, moral man. And them we have men that will drink,
steal, fight, therefore they should be based on a different assignment.
D: Um hm. Do you feel that uh, there's a difference today on the uh, the way that the
white man and the Indian looks at the Negro, uh, do you feel there's a difference
today how the Indian views the Negro, and the Indian views the white man, as compared
with your father and your grandfather?
II: Well, uh, I can't say too much about that, but in my book they're all right.
I treat the white man just like I do the nigger. I treat the niggers just like
I do the white man.
D: So you feel a man is a man,
L: A man is a man,
D: Mr. Moore?
M: I do, I mean, itts kinda like Martin Luther King said, judge a man by the contents
of his character, not by the color of his skin. But you asked me a while ago if
uh, if I thought the race relations had improved, and I told you, to an extent
they had. "However I been working in the mill, and I have observed there that the
race relation is still kind of strained, I mean...
D: Do the Indiana in the mills get a fair break at the top jobs?
M: It's according to what you consider t&p jobs. You got top-paying jobs thatare
dirty and nasty jobs. Yes, they get there.
D: Waht about uh, as far as office jobs, or moving into the front office of something,
even ii they are qualified. You think it'd be a little more difficult.
M: I definitely do.
D: Do you feel that way, Mr. Locklear?
L: I do.
D: I think I would have to agree with you there that uh, there's still uh, the uh,
minority race who's uh, the Negro and the Indian who's not getting the fair break
uh, that he ought to have in uh, industry. Uh, although things have improved dna
so forth, as you say, uh, there's lots of room for more improvement.
H: I'd like to add to this that uh, this has been called to soem, to the attention of
soem of our uh, our, our leaders, and as yet, we haven't seen any, any results
D: You think the union will help along this line? You think the Indian will be better
off with a union?
M: Well, now, I'm dumb as to the powers of the union, I don't I just don't know
what the pwoers of the union would be in the state of Norht Carolina.
L: If the union were to, in North Carolina like it is in, in Norht, it'd be a fine
thing, and they would all have the same privilege. And the Indian man, colored
man would have the same privilege as the white. Uh, the more seniority you have,
the more, the higher up you move if there any moving be done you get the chance
D: Uh, you're saying you feel uh, the Indian in the Notth today would have a better
break'than he would in Robeson county.
L: That's right.
D: You feel that way, Mr. Moore?
M: I've never traveled in the Norht, and I'm, I couldn't be an authority on that
subject. But I have uh, what I just said, I'd observed that, here in the plants
here in the South.
D: Well the Indian people are considered to be very, very good works and so forth,
they can turn out a lot of work, and of course they get some of the better jobs
that way but uh, although a few have uh, good jobs and maybe office jobs and so
forth, you think, you two men feel that uh, they uh, still don't' get uh, the same
break or the same that others are getting.
M: That's right, and I feel that just as we have, have them just as well-qualified
as the white and they don't get the breaks that the white get.
L: That's right, I'll agree with that.
D: Thank you Mr. James Allen Locklear, and Mr, James E. Moore. Thaks a lot for your