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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
Miss Dixie Hunt (H)
Pembroke State University, Pembroke, North Carolina
Interviewer: Marilyn Taylor (I)
April 19, 1973
Typed by: Paula Williams
I: My name is Marilyn Taylor. I am on the campus of the Pembroke State
University. We're sitting out here in the cool under the pine trees,
and with me is a student who's consented to give an interview, and...
well, I'll let her tell her name. What is your full name and address?
H: My name is Dixie Theresa Hunt. I live here in Pembroke.
I: Are you married or single?
H: No, I'm single.
I: You're single. And what is your parent's name?
H: Mr. and Mrs. Albert Hunt.
I: Albert Hunt. How many brothers and sisters do you have? Is there
other children besides yourself?
H: I have a fifteen-year-old sister.
I: This is the extent of your family. May I ask how old you are?
H: I'm twenty.
I: Twenty. You're not married, you say. Do you have plans of any time
soon? Do you go steady or anything of this sort?
H: I don't have any plans for the near future.
I: What are you studying here at the University?
H: I'm an English Education major. I have a specialty concentration in
grammar and linguistics.
I: That's very good. I follow along with you in that same field. How
did you get interested in this? Have you always been seemingly (adapted?)
to this or did it come later, or...?
H: Well, I've been pretty good in English. In high school, I liked history
a lot but I had a very good twelfth grade English teacher who influenced
me a lot, I think.
I: Well, good English teachers are hard to come by these days, as the old
saying goes. Could you give us the nameLof that teacher, perhaps?
H: Her name was Mrs. Henry (Bizzell?) Jr.
I: I've heard of it. I believe her husband is...
I: What is the denomination there?
H: United Methodist.
I: Yes, I was thinking United Methodist. He was a student here, was he not,
or a part-time student?
H: Well, he took ceramics here.
I: Oh, yeah, just for his own enrichment. What is your status on campus?
I mean, are you a junior, senior...?
H: I will be a junior.
I: You will be a junior. How have you found the life on campus here as
compared to, say, high school? In the environment I know there must be
some difference. Have you noted any differences? Have there been ad-
justments, meeting different people--maybe of different states, different
races, different opinions and so on? Or have you found this to be true?
H: Well, I really didn't notice too much change from high school to college.
But, like if you go back to visit a high school, the change is very marked.
You can really notice it then. The whole atmosphere to me is different,
it's all different.
I: In what way? JIs it more liberal, conservative, or is it more structured,
LUI 105A 3
or how do you note the difference or would you describe it?
H: Well, I think it's definitely, as far as classes and such go, not structured
as on a high school level, you know. There is more freedom and the fact
that, you know, your teachers don't push you and push you and push you.
They tell you what to do and if you don't do it, it's you;. 'It's your
responsibility. -You have responsibility in college. I think that's
I: Do you feel as much pressure in college as you did in high school, or is
it the other way around?
H: Well, I don't...there can be. There can be pressure, I guess, if you
strive for grades, for grades, for grades. But I never was too much to
I: Your interest is learning, or how would...?
H: I more or less go my own way. I don't like too much competition with
other students. I do what I think I am able to do, but I don't like to
be put against...you know, matched with other.people.
I: I agree with you there. But does the fact that you have to have the
grade in order to stay here, does that maybe make you feel some pressure
to push a little harder than you normally would, maybe.
H: Well, I don't have too much problem with staying in. I have a pretty
good average in...
I: I take it you make mostly A's and B's, along in that range.
H: Mostly, yeah.
I: And you don't have to be modest, now. We want to know all of your better
qualities, as well as any bad ones you might have. This is going all
across the nation. We certainlyAto brag of our better students, certainly.
H: Right. I can't...well, I don't really remember what my grade point
average is. I think it's a 3.6 something or...
I: Gracious, you're not a mind, you're a brain.
H: I really can't remember right off what it is.
I: How many hours are you carrying a semester, or will as soon as you finish...?
1: Well, right now I'm carrying sixteen. I have previously carried seventeen
before. This is about my lightest load so far.
I: You seem to be an easygoing person. I notice that while we're talking
here...is this knitting?
H: It's crochet.
I: Crochet. You're making a vest. Do you find this to be therapeutic
or is it something you're doing because it's practical or a hobby...?
What's it mean to you?
H: I just started within the last couple of months doing it. I enjoy it a
good deal, and since, you know, spring fever has gotten a real hold on
me lately. I've been doing a lot.
I: How do you describe spring fever? I've heard people tell it all sorts
H: of ways. How does it feel to you?
H: Well, actually, I haven't done too much reading or really academic work
within about the last week. I have been about nil, you know.
I: I think perhaps the fact that the Easter holiday's coming up...do you
anticipate getting off and having a few days, and you sort of maybe get
a premature feeling of the holiday spirit. Is this true or not? Just
knowing that you can let up some.
H: Yeah, well, I've already let up. I think I will probably use the Easter
break maybe to do some projects--you know, school projects. I have one
due, but what I'think I'm mostly looking forward to is the next two weeks
passing because we get out. Our graduation date is the thirteenth of May
LUM 105A 5
and we get out in a few weeks, about three weeks.
I: So you're really feeling sort of the strain of the semester?
H: Yeah, I think that's it.
I: Have you noticed any difference in the fall semester and the spring
semester? Does the spring semester compared to the fall semester seem
any longer, and would it be the difference in the break of the holidays,
perhaps? Or do you see it this way?
H: Well, I never really pay that much attention. You know, there is the
difference in the spring, you know. You only get the spring break and
the Easter break, and the school is more compact and tight. But it seems
to go fast, you know, when you have it like that. It passes faster.
I: As a student at the beginning of the first semester and you go in and
you sign up for your courses, and you usually know who the professor's
gonna be--sometimes you don't, maybe. But as you go in and each tells
you what the requirements will be for, say, this semester, o five books
to be read outside and three notebooks to be turned in and projects to
be done here...have you ever felt what some people term as "first semester
panic" sort of? You wonder how in the world are you ever gonna ever get
all of this done? Or do you just say, Well, I'll get it done and take it
in your stride? How do you react to it?
H: Well, there might be a little bit of anxiety, but I find that, you know,
that most will not give too much work, or if something comes up that, you
know, you can't get all that in, they are reasonable and will work some-
thing else out--another program so that, you know, it's not ridiculous.
I: In other words, you're saying that if you feel overloaded, your professors
work with you, or do they not? Do you feel that they would or not?
H: To a certain extent, they are. Most of them are, you know, real helpful,
LUM 105A 6
if, as a class you know, it's overloaded. They're not too sympathetic
if you just sit around and let everything pile up on you and then you are
overworked, because they feel thatsyour own responsibility. But if,
you know, is assigned or when you miss school days like because of a snow
or someone is sick, they take that into account.
I: Do you have a preference as to men professors or women professors, or is
there any distinction or difference? Can you tell?
H: I haven't had very many women professors. Let's see, I can remember one.
I: What class was hers?
H: That was in a speed reading class.
I: That must have been the reading lab. Dr. (Switzer?) ?
H: Yes, her. And let's see...oh, I had Mrs. Sheely in German. I had here
for two semesters last year.
I: Had you had any previous experience in German before you took it here
at the University?
H: No, this was my first German. I had Spanish in high school.
I: How did you find German...well, how did you come out with it? I'm sure
you passed it. Did you find that it was hard or easy, or how would you
H: Well, I did very well in German. I had an A average both times. I found
that there was--maybe for me because I'm an English major--there was a
marked similarity between the English structure and the German structure
as far as verbs and...
I: Many people have said that the German language is perhaps one of the
hardest languages to learn--with the exception of English, perhaps. Did
you find this true in comparison with Spanish? Was Spanish much easier
or was it the time you took it, perhaps? Having more maturity, maybe
LUM 105A 7
better study habits or anything like this could have affected it, do
H: Well, I think Spanish may be an easier language, you know, to get the
hang of, but I think German was not as difficult because, you know, the
reputation that German has. It has a really bad reputation for being really
hard and difficult and all this, but I was surprised because it was not,
you know, not to the degree that everyone says it was.
I: So you didn't go in it-with any great feeling of anxiety, or did you?
H: Well, at first I really wasn't looking forward to it, but after I got
in there and spent the first couple of classes, I got really excited
about it because it was really good. I enjoyed it.
I: Was this required within your realm of what you're studying, German,
or did you just take it on your own or as an elective?
H: Well, a foreign language was required, but I just decided to take
I: But you could have gone on with French, I mean--excuse me--Spanish?
H: Yeah. A lot of people there told me that French is more difficult, but
I don't know.
I: You mentioned earlier that your major was English Education. Would you
give us a description of this? It's a relatively new phrasing of words,
I would say. What's meant by it? Are you going to teach English, or...
are you taking education courses also with it? ;
I: What do you plan to do once it's over, you know?
H: Well, I'think I would like to teach, but I'll never know until I try it,
I guess, and so I intend to try.
LUM 105A 8
I: Well, is it mainly education and English that you work together to take?
English courses and education courses?
H: Well, the courses, you know, are different, but there it...
I: What I'm saying, do you take any courses in the education department?
I'm talking about...Dr. Murray's the head over there at Locklear Hall...
H: Yeah, yeah.
I: Foundations of education or methods or...that kind of thing. Or have
you gotten into that yet?
H: Well, what I meant was that they have the education courses that I take
over there, but they're not specifically for English education, they're
for all education, you know, even P. E. and everything else. They're
the same education courses, and so there's not too Very much...
I: If you're gonna teach, you pretty well have to get over there sometime
or another, don't you?
I: In the education department.
H: It's not...it's different because the English courses are straight
English and the education courses are straight education and there's no
really, not very much mingling of the two together, you know.
I: I see. As we sit out here on, you might say, the main streetjor-walk--
way, of the student center and the bookstore and the D. F. Lowry student
center...I get a:sense of anticipation that people are waiting for...
H: Oh, yeah.
I: There's a suspension going on. What's happening around here?
H: They're waiting for the winners of the student government elections.
I: And are you involved in this?
H: No, I wasn't running for anything. I was just sitting around waiting,
I: Is there somebody that you are particularly interested in or care about--
your candidate that you want to see win, or anything of that...pulling
for any special one, I'd say?
H: Well, we had some candidates. We had a write-in election going because
some of, you know, our candidates had gotten disqualified...
I: You're talking about Lumbee now.
H: Yeah. Because one guy did not have a 2.0 average.
I: Was this Harding?
H: They're the write-in candidates.
I: Okay. And by write-in you mean r-i-o-t? Explain that, r-i-d, Spell it.
H: Write, w-r-i-t-e, in, write-in.
I: Okay, write-in, it's two words, right?
I: Right, right.
I: Yes, okay, so who's your candidate?
H: Well, for president and vice-president I voted for Harding and Brooks.
They are the write-in candidates. Well, they really didn't get started
until about a week before the election, so I don't think there was too
much...you know, we really didn't think that they would win, so...but it
was an act just...
H: Running, that was important, I think.
I: At least it split the vote or took some away from maybe^you didn't want
to see win. Maybe?t.b zwhy you're sitting here doing this crocheting.
H: Well, that's part of it.
I: Are feeling a particular tension now?
LUL 105A 10
I: Okay. When you're waiting something out like this...you say you just
really recently took up crocheting...when there is suspension and you
6d have to wait something out, how do you react, or how do you handle it?
H: Very impatiently. I am very impatient.
I: Walk floors, or kick the cat or the dog, or what?
H: No, I sit around and just watch and wait, and that is terrible. That
really makes it all that much worse, makes the time go even slower.
Sometimes I try and do things, but I'm very impatient. That's something--
I would like to get a little bit more patience, you know.
I: Well, I think we can all improve, perhaps, in that area. We wanted yes-
terday what we're looking for tomorrow. Butif:you do teach--you said
there was perhaps a question mark there, you might change your mind. This
is alwaystrue, we never know maybe til the last moment sometimes though
we have previous plans. Where do you hope to teach? Do you want to stay
in your own locality'here in Pembroke, or would you like to get outside and
get away from home, see how people live on the other side of the fence,
so to speak? What was your figuring here?
H: Well, actually, it's very hard for me to imagine living anywhere else. I
remember when I was a little girl I used to.look forward to taking vacations,
you know, and getting away and seeing things, but always before the vacation
was over I was ready to come home. I wanted to be back home, and I don't
think...it's partly family, but I think it's just the general, just a
feeling for the area, I think, I really don't know how to...
I: I think with your ability certainly it would be beneficial...there's so
many qualified Lumbees who say they can't make it here, that they have to
of out of the area. But if they want to make it, they can make it, or do
LUM 105A 11
you feel this way? They make it for themselves if they really want to
H: Well, I don't know what they call making it...
I: Well, I'm saying make a living within the...you know, have the opportunities,
job, economics, money and this kind of thing to live sort of in the
middle class bracket, at least--enough to, you know, not be in stricken
H: Oh, I think there's quite a large number of Lumbees who are in the middle
class area around here...
I: Even higher.
H: Right, even higher. There's some very well-off people around here.
I: Yeah. Where do you go to see the prettiest homes around here? You don't
drive down Main Street, but where do you go? Because we do have some
beautiful homes here.
H: Yeah, I think that they're in the country, out in the country, you know.
I: So, do you think sometimes people from other areas outside, you know, ride
down Main Street and maybe it looks a little bit like Dodge City in a way?
It's getting to look a little better. The face of it's picking up, it has
in the last two or three years. But to just see the University and see
the Main Street doesn't give a clear picture of...to most people,or do
you feel that way?
H: Well, I really don't see the town as others see it, I know, because I
can drive through other little places, you know, and I'll say, "Gosh,
this is a little town" but I don't view Pembroke like that, you know.
But I guess other people do.
I: Things this close to you, you know, it becomes a part of you so much.
It's like habit, I guess, you know, you just perform without really...
LUM- 15A 12
H: And I have more insight into the back areas. I just don't see the
main drag, you know.
I: That's good. We wish, you know, other people could be exposed a little
more to the back areas and see that it ma+e true sometimes but it's not
always true that it's what's up front that counts, anyway. We do have
some things up front that we're proud of as well as in the back. Cer-
tainly the University...how do you feel about the growth of it? In the
last two years since you've been here, there's-been what? How many
buildings have you seen go up new?
H: Oh, I really don't know. New ones...there are two or three or four...
sometimes I think it's growing too fast because things get, you know,
you think you have things settled for a while but they get all jumbled up
again. And it's just growing in all directions and everything.
I: Everybody's out with everybody else. But this is true, maybe, is it
H: Yeac I think that's what it is.
I: The fact that it's relatively a new university--new in the sense that
it's not been integrated, uh, how long? Since some time in the fifties
when the ground...the civil rights act was passed, was it...
H: I really don't know when...
I: ___ you can remember integration when you were in school? You
were in grade school, probably.
H: Well, I don't remember it as such because I don't...maybe it's me, I just
don't remember it as being such that all I hear's integration, you know,
uh, it wasn't that much different to me because...
I:.." iD ",,';, 1:'. ._. a black boy or a white boy?
H: Uh, no, no. Because when I was out, you know, at the elementary school,
LUM. 105A 13
if...anybody who wanted to could come, but if it was a matter of choice,
there wasn't very many blacks over there, but it wasn't closed to blacks--
or whites either.
I: b ct' 1i^ fr lt ('?V C, freedom of choice, yeah.
H: Yeah. I don't think they had to force anything, really.
I: I notice that as I sit here and talk with you, people have, uh,-and I'm
race-conscious simply because I'm working on this project, and I believe
in race and that being the human race. I say;this on most of the tapes
and I say it to most of the people because I really feel strongly, but I
notice you have friends from all races so you seem to mix well with the
people. Does race...when you greet someone does it come to your mind, well,
he's black or she's black or white, or how do you feel? Are you free to
take any student home that you want to choose as a friend regardless of
H: Yeah, yeah.
I: And you parents, are they liberal on this? They don't...?
H: Uh, liberal--that means a lot of things.
I: Well, are they understanding, do they go along with it?
H: Oh, well, they have friends of different races also, you know, and so
they come. I don't think it's race that would be the thing, you know.
I: Well, this is good, this is what we want brought out. But to some people,
this is all they see, you know, rather than regarding the person as a
person. Do you identify with the...we established that you're Indian--if
you want to, you know, be with that identity--do you identify with the
Lumbee group or any other group...?
H: You mean name?:
I: Yeah, if you want to call it name.
H: Yeah, I think that's name. I am, I think...
LUM 1Q5A 14
I: The legislature that gave the name Lumbee to most of the people of this
area, except there was a few that didn't like it, you know.
H: Lumbee, to me, is a very good name because, you know, it takes different
things into account and tries to bring them together. It doesn't try to
draw lines and break up and separate as much as other names would, and I
like it because it tries to unify instead of break apart.
I: I was talking to Brantley Blue this morning--in fact, I interviewed him--
and he said that some of the other groups that didn't like the name Lumbee
said it was a white man's name. But the fact was it was the people in this
area themselves chose the name Lumbee and went to Washington with that
petition, so really it was the people here that picked the name. Is that
true? I mean, as you heard it, or...
H: As I understand it, that is true, yes. I don't understand a lot of things,
I: Well, many of us don't, but we hear...
H: ...a lot of this stuff, youinow.
I: Yeah, we hear static and all this, and most of it, a great deal of it is
static. I mean, there's not a whole lot of credibility in it. But then,
this is what causes wars and everything else, sometimes, you'know, just a
misused word here or there. People fight over names.
H: Right, they sure will around here.
I: Do you J, S feel, well, deep within the core of your soul that you're
a peaceful sort of person or do you feel more militant in getting things
better for the.IndiansrdI-know that you feel there's certain improvements
to be made, but how would you, if it was in your power, go about getting
these things done? Let's say you were a top government official where
you did have the power to change rules or laws. What would you want most?--
LUM 105A 15
I say for your people, I'm speaking of the Lumbees again.
H: Oh, wow. That's very hard to say because...
I: I know it is general, but...probably you hadn't thought about it a great
deal. It's like asking what would you do with a million dollars if you
H: Yeah, because there are different things that need, need, you know. There
is a great need for them and it would be hard to say, well, this and not
I: Yeah. But I was wondering if you saw anything as top priority on the list
that you'd like to see done first before anything else?
Hi First, wow. I really don't have a first because most of my firsts apply
to everyone, you know, and I just couldn't say, well, my people here, you
know, I would have to say, you know, like a better, better understanding
of things, a better education. Because I think certain things like this
everyone lacksand they're basics and they're much needed, and without
them it's hard to get the other things--the things that are more secondary
and yet they are important too. sometimes it's like a circle, you
know, a n/trAmA circle, it keeps going around and around and around, you
know, you can't seem to get off and look at things.
I: Um-hmm. I think that's a very good observation. It's good philosophy.
I was going to g-.around...let's see how our tape's coming along,here,
I don't want it to run out after we've talked fifteen minutes...get around
to asking you something about your dating and so on. You say you don't
have plans to be married in the near future, but some time do you see
yourself married and having children and a home and this kind of thing?
H: Yes. I think certainly so, yes.
I: How many children would you hope to have at this time?
LUM 105A 16
H: I think of my own I would like two or so, but I think there's always,
you know, the possibility of adopting others. Because,there's so many,
you know. It seems like the adoption agencies are not as crowded as
they were and it's slower, but there are so many somewhere who need,
youiknhow, someone to care for them.
I: Are you an advocate, perhaps, to the Zero Population movement, then,
in any way? You know, they believe in having two children to replace
yourself and your husband and then, you know, call it quits, I guess.
Maybe if you want more, adopt, as you said.
H: Well, I am not...I don't know too much about that. I'm not a strict
advocate of that or anything, uh...
I: I think they believe we're just, you know, multiplying so fast we're
gonna push ourselves off the earth and then strangle ourselves to death
or something. Not a pretty picture.
H: Well, to me, it's like...there's...you know, you have children and you
raise them and love them and stuff, but there's so many who are already-
here and they don't have any of these things. And I think maybe if I
could do something for the ones who are already here instead of just
maybe adding to the problem.
I: Well, that's a very commendable attitude to have. I was just listening
to the music they have coming from the student union and seeing if I
could figure out the name of that. Do you find that the rapport with
the students and the professors here is fair or good or not so good...?
H: Well, I think it's pretty good, you know.
I: It's pretty good. What about the administration? Do you have any
feelings there, that when you go over there that, uh...?
H: Well, I really...I know less about that. I'm not too up on that.
LUM 105A 17
I: How do you feel about interrelation dating? Say, dating a black guy
or a white guy or something like this? Even when...how do you look at
it? As a complete no-no or something you might consider doing or if
another person wants to do it, okay, or where do you stand on this?
H: I think it depends on the individual. Right now, I have just one person,
you know, so I don't know too much about how other people's ideas are,
but I think that what they do and what they believe is their own doing.
I mean, I can't say...I can't make judgments on other people.because I
don't want them to judge me and the things I do. I often...I don't like
it for other people to do that to me, so I try not to be that way myself.
I: Well, that's very good. Do you see much of it around campus that you
know of, much of the interracial dating and...?
H: Oh, it's here. Yes, it's here.
I: Well, do you feel that this improves human relationships and understanding
because it does bring down some of the mystery or the curiosity about
other people--or does it? What does it do in your opinion?
H: I don't it see it really. It does and it doesn't, you know. It's sort
of a draw because, you know, there are some people who don't like it and
there's some who say, well, it's none of my business, and, you know, it's
hard to say yes or no.
I: I think it would be an individual thing, have to be considered on those
bases. I want to ask you one other thing. You know, the legislative body
which recently legalized abortion, I don't know if it's been implemented
in every state or not because some still frown on it. How do you feel
about this? Is abortion to you a thing that should be legalized or, uh,
if the time came and you felt...would you consider having an abortion?
I know that that's a premature question, but it's a matter of conscience
LUM 105A 18
and I'm asking you within your own self how you feel about it.
H: Well, I don't see where I could submit to that. I don't see where I
would ever have one, you know, under ordinary circumstances, where I
would want one. I don't like that too much, you know.
I: Does this feeling...because of religion or just your own, uh, do you
feel that it's wrong for some reason?
H: It would be wrong for me, it would be wrong for me.
I: Why do you feel this way? You base your opinion on some belief or some-
thing, l fTNJ y,7v ,-'" i)rli maybee something that's been taught
H: Well, it hasn't been taught specifically that abortion is wrong, you know.
It hasn't been given to me like that, but I think, you know, that it has
in a way been given to me, and I think...I have examined it'and I accept
that, you know. I think it's a good way to look at it for me.
I: I believe I talked to your uncle and I interviewed him previously. Is that
right--the relati6n;-Mr. Elmer Hunt?
I: Do you share with him the same religion? I believe it's the Baptist.
H: No, I'm a United Methodist.
I: United Methodist. Is this the church we was talking about Ig_'_____
H: Yeah, they used to be our pastor at our church. He's in Benson now, North
I: Who is your pastor now?
H; He's Reverend Jerry (Jourand?)
I: How many would you say approximately in membership at your church?
H: Oh, I'd say about a hundred twenty-five.
I: A hundred twenty-five. All of us daydream, night-dream, you know. Some
LUM 105A 19
of us don't want to admit it always, but daydreaming is good sometimes
when we...days like today anyway, I think spring fever and this kind of
thing. If you could wish one thing for the world for the betterment of
all peoples, and had the power maybe to twitch your nose even, as Samantha
does, or whatever it took, what would you wish and cause to happen for
the betterment of all societies, all races, of all creeds, of all colors?
H: I think one small thing that people could do would be to think before
they acted, you know. Many times people will say things and do things
thataif they had thought about them, they would not have done. I think
that would help a little bit, you know. It's probably nothing earth-
shaking, but you got to start somewhere, I guess.
I: I think this is very good. I think it also says that sometimes we buck
up to the big things and the little things is what gets our toes stumped
and trips uszand we pile hurt up on hurt until band-aids doesn't patch
it up anymore. Sometimes we have to go get a whole new repair job.
Dixie, I want to thank you very much for this interview. You've been
very articulate and informative and I think that basically you've got
the ideas down. And I want to wish you luck in your quest for human
understanding because I think you do have this quest whether you realize
it or not. -And IPwant-to wish you luck in your academic career, and
whatever you choose to do I know you'll be a success in. And we thank
you for your contributions, for this interview.
H: Thank you.