|
COPYRIGHT NOTICE
This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.
Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.
This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
107) which allows limited use of copyrighted
materials under certain conditions.
Fair use limts the amount of material that may be
used.
For all other permissions and requests, contact the
SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
LUM 91A
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
DATE: MAY 14, 1973
SIDE: ONE
PAGE: ONE
I: This is May 14th, 1973. I am Lew Barton, interviewing for the Doris
Duke American Indian Oral History Program under the auspices of the
University of Florida's History Department. I'm in my home in Pembroke,
North Carolina, and with me is a student from PSU...right? Uh, would you
please tell us your name?
S: Ronald Craig Locklear.
I: Ronald Craig Locklear...that's L-o-c-k-l-e-a-r, and this is C-r-a-i-g?
S: Yes.
I: For your middle name. Uh, would you tell us who your paren ts are?
S: ___Locklear, my father, and uh, my stepmother is Renise
Locklear.
I: Uh huh...uh...do you live out at Prospect, I'm wondering if uh...?
S: Yes, close to prospect.
I: Uh huh. I know your father very well, which is why I asked you this.
Do you have any brothers and sisters?
S: I have a sister, and she's married now.
I: What's her name?
S: Nancy Locklear.
I: Uh huh...how old is she?
S: She's about twenty.
I: Uh huh...I should ask you your age...I sort of hesitate to ask girls, but
fellows usually don't mind.
S: Well, I'm nineteen.
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Now are you a senior or what?
S: Well, I'm just getting started, I'm a freshman. I'll be a sophomore
when it starts back again.
I: Uh huh. That's great. Where did you get your high school education?
S: In Prospect.
I: Uh huh. Well great, 'cause you and I got a high school education from the
same place. You ought to be a great student. I'm prejudiced. Uh, so there
are in your family...there are uh...?
S: Well, there's...I have a...a half-brother. He's about seven or eight years
old now. He's in second grade. His name is Mark.
I: Uh huh.
S: And then there's Keith and my sisters baby, and he's about two...two or
three years old...Jason.
I: Um huh. Uh, tell me something about Prospect community...it's very inter-
esting isn't it? Uh, do you think it's different from some of the other
Indian communities?
S: Well...
I: How would you describe it?
S: It might be a little bit different, but I think it's typically...typically
about the same.
I: Uh huh...but it is about the center of the Indian territory. Isn't it
roughly about the center?
S: Well as...as far as my understanding is it seems to be about the center.
I: From Prospect you can travel miles in almost any direction without finding
any families other than Indian families...is that true?
2
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: That;s right.
I: And uh, there's a sort of love that...you know...for the community,
even when we move away from Prospect. I don't know if this is true of
all the...it's probably true of the other communities too, but I
certainly know about it, being from Prospect myself. And uh, I think
we're a little bit proud to be Prospectors...isn't it?
S: Yes, I...I'm proud of it.
I: Uh, what do you plan to do when you graduate from college?
S: Well, I haven't made any definite plans. I just recently decided what I'd
major in. I figured biology would be the best area for me.
I: It seems that biology is a wide opened field now...doesn't it?
S: Yes, it has more opportunities for a job whenever you graduate.
I: Have you always lived uh, in this community all of your life?
S: Ever since I was about seven years old.
I: Uh huh. And...how...you don't notice any difference...much difference
though between prospect and Pembroke do you?
S: Well...other than the fact we were always kind of rivals at things back
years ago...that's about the only difference.
I: Do you think this is a healthy rivalry, or do we take it to extremes
sometimes?
S: Well now, it seems to be more of a healthy rivalry, but in the past
I...I can't understand too much about what happened before my days.
I: Uh, I remember how hard we wanted to win in baseball, basketball, any-
thing. And I seem to recall a young man we had in the community who
didn't actually go to school because he was retarded. But he was big
3
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: ...and husky, and if he ever got the football, nobody could stop him.
So, we'd sneak him in, and uh, if he got the ball, he really made a
touchdown. Sometimes he would go in the wrong direction though...we
had to guide him sometimes. But eventually I think they got uh, you
know, teams we played found out about this, and they ruled him out.
Uh, Prospect is great fun. Uh, so uh, you're just getting...uh, you,
you...you've just got your feet on the ground good this year?
S: Yes, that's about right.
I: I shouldn't say that really, because the freshman year is usually the
most difficult year, and if you've survived the freshman year...you've
got it made.
S: I hope so.
I: I think this is the general attitude of all the students. Uh, but of
course when you first enter this is not always apparent. You don't know
this always, but I think this is generally true. Uh, you have pretty
heavy courses. Although they're mostly the basic courses in your fresh-
man year. I think you're on safe you know. How were your grades this
year?
S: Well I come out a little bit above average...not much more than above.
I: Well, that's good...that's good. Because as I said, to me at least, the
freshman year is pretty rough. Uh have you observed anything that needs
changing around the university. This is pretty explosive...it's a pretty
explosive question. Uh, don't answer anything you don't want to
answer.
S: Well...
4
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Just say you don't have any comment or something like that
S: I have a small comment about it, but not much. It's just...among our
Indian students that's out there, we need more participation in events.
There's too many of us that just feel that it's not necessary. We just,
we just figure we need to just go to school, learn what's in our lessons,
and go back home, and that's it. But I...I think there should be more to
it than that.
I: Uh, is there a feeling that we...our students wouldn't actually have a
fair chance with...same as the other students do you think, or is it
sort of a lack of self-confidence or what?
S: Well we...we almost stand a fair chance, and I think in years to come we
might be even a little bit ahead. But we're just going to have to try,
and keep trying.
I: Well Lumbee Indians like other Indians are known for their skill at
athletics...for their ability at athletics, and I think uh, some of the
best athletes in the county come from the Prospect area. Do you yourself
play ball?
S: Well, I never was much good at any kind of ball you know, I like something
like football now I could...I could play football pretty good because,
well...I have a temper, and in basketball it's a non-contact sport. And
if you bump into someone, or hit them or something like that, you're in
trouble.
I: Right.
S: In football...I loved football to begin with, and I could play it
because...if I got mad at someone, that...that's what the coach wanted,
5
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: ...he wanted me to get mad.
I: Uh huh.
S: And the only thing I had to do, was every time the ball was snapped, or
whatever you would call hiked I reckon is the more proper term for it.
Then I could go ahead and hit whoever I wanted to hit, and that's what
I'd do.
I: Work off your frustrations....
S: There you go.
I: Well, that's great. Uh, football is a great game. What other things did
you enjoy...do you enjoy, a few little sports...how about swimming?
S: Well I...I love to swim, but really I can't participate in sports too
much now because I had an injury awhile back, and that...it restricts
me...I mean I can't participate anyhting there where I might accidently
get my head hurt in any way.
I: Uh huh...what kind of injury was this?
S: Well, it was an eye injury.
I: An eye injury. Was it in a car accident or something or a plane or what?
S: Well, it was at a party one night.
I: Boy!
S: It's kind of hard to explain.
I: Well, I think I understand...those things do happen once in awhile. It
happens to the best of us. Uh, do you think we have a...a tendency to...to
have uh, good old fashion rows once in awhile in our community...in the
entire Indian community?
S: Well, I'm not for sure, I...I better not say anything.
6
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: I was thinking particularly about a professor who was interviewed
recently, and we made remarks about that, and you know, we said...the
only thing that worries me is there's a lot of violence. I...I guess
there's violence everywhere.
S: I don't think we have anymore violence around here really than anywhere
else.
I: I think Fayetteville is probably the most violent town in the state, and
I think they've got us a little bit. We came across something like that
at Quint. Uh, do you think uh, the Indians in the Prospect area are more
of what we call hard corp Indians, than some of the Indians on the
fringes, or would you rather not comment on that?
S: Well, I think they are all about really equal as far as I'm concerned.
You know, there's some everywhere, that just would rather, you know,
forget they're Indian, but that's...that's them, and I won't say anything
about them.
I: Uh huh...but that's not the general thing around Prospect is it?
S: Well, I don't know any particular group that would, or any person like
that.
I: Uh huh. Do you think we're getting away from this? Uh, there was a time
when uh, for example, when it wasn't very popular to be known as an
Indian. And do you think this is uh...this feeling is disappearing, and
that there's more pride in Indianness among ourselves now?
S: Well among the majority, I think it is, but still there's a few that, well
say, if anything happens, I can always say that I'm white and they won't
question me.
7
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Uh huh.
S: And that hurts me to know that people feel like that, but some people,
I've heard some say that.
I: Uh, they kind of use it as a possible escape hatch.
S: Yes.
I: Uh, how about prejudice, uh, have you encountered any anti-Indian prejudice
in this county?
S: Well, only a little bit. And uh, I couldn't really tell for sure whether
it was just prejudice, or just...their gen...a person's general outlook
on life. He might not just like people at all.
I: Uh huh. It's kind of hard to detect at times isn't it?
S: Yes.
I: It's hard to specifically say this is prejudice. Uh, do you think we've
made progress in that direction?
S: I think we've made some, but I...I think there's plenty a more room to
improve.
I: Uh huh. Uh, some of the people around Prospect uh, looked kind of bitter
about the desegregation plans...so-called desegregation plan in 1970. Uh,
do you think that uh, this resistance to the integration...so-called
integration plan was felt more keenly in the Prospect area perhaps, and
maybe in the Oxendine area, than in other areas of the county?
S: I think it was, because for one reason...it wasn't that we didn't want
other races coming to our school, I didn't mind that any...but the thing
is, there were a bunch of other Indian students that...that always come
to Prospect. They enjoyed coming to Prospect...they had friends there.
8
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: And then they were told they couldn't come to prospect any more.
I: Uh huh.
S: And that's what caused so much trouble.
I: In other words uh...we were enjoying the freedom of choice plan. Do you
think this was truly a freedom of choice plan...no pressure placed on
Indians, or blacks, or whites?
S: I didn't... I don't believe there was nay pressure placed. I mean like,
school was always fun then, but now...you know......it was a lot of
difference after, you know, a lot of other students that had been your
friends...they couldn't come back to Prospect anymore. They had to go
to Maxton, or they had to go to Red Planes..
I: Weren't there some sit-ins that lasted at Prospect during the whole year?
Students who were assigned elsewhere sat in on their classes for the
whole school year?
S: Yes we had a few.
I: I imagine that the number got smaller as the year wore on?
S: There were a few that just stayed on anyhow.
I: Um huh. Do you think there were parents who didn't send their children
back to school at all?
S: There might of been, I don't really know personally any families that did,
but there might have been.
I: Um huh. Umm...but in::recent weeks there was an incident near Prospect
church...uh, between Indians and...and policemen. This is very unusual for,
for our Prospect community as you know, but I didn't understand too much
about it, or what happened...do you know what happened out there that
night?
9
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: Well I don't really understand it completely. I know they gathered together,
and I don't know really what the purpose of them gathering, but...my
feelings might be a little bit different than a lot of peo...other people.
Because I think, if they wanted to gather there...
I: When you say they, are you speaking about the Tuscarora group?
S: The ones that...yeah, the Tuscarora group, and well, all the people that
participated there.
I: Uh huh.
S: If they wanted to gather there, as long as they stayed where they were
at. Uh, they weren't causing any trouble that I heard, but I don't know,
I wasn't right there, so I can't verify anything. I think they had a right
as long as they didn't cause trouble, to stay there.
I: Uh huh...well uh, this is something that we've always taken for granted
in the Prospect community isn't it? I mean....
S: Yes, if we ever wanted to gather anywhere, I mean like...we'd go...
I: And the buildings were always opened to us, weren't they? As long as
it was uh, a constructive meeting. I imagine if we wanted to...if we
wanted to pitch a wild party, they might not have let them...let them
have a building for that, but that's about the only thing I can think
of...how about you?
S: Yes...that's all I could understand, but it just didn't make sense, how
come...I mean like plenty of times our churches had get to...you know,
have uh...special Sunday for eating or something like that. You know,
they'd have...fix great big meals and go overgto'the campus on school,
10
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: ...go in the gym and fix the food and eat in there.
I: Uh huh. It seems that we had a...or we like to think of it...maybe you
and I are a little bit prejudiced in our own direction.
S: Maybe we are.
I: It seems like we had a genuine community school, and a community school
spirit. And do you think this is one of the things that uh, people hated
to give up so badly?
S: That might have been it, but I can't really tell how some people feel,
you know.
I: Right...well we only know really when you come down to it about our own
feelings...how we feel personally. But uh, uh, how about the others, how
do you think Prospect compares with the other communities? We mentioned
some of the things I think...a strong sense of love for the community.
And uh, you know, sometimes people are a little bit surprised to learn
that there is a certain amount of rivalry, inter-community rivilry. And
perhaps this is a faulty thing. I can remember myself, when some of the
communities, uh...maybe one or two, went to extremes. If the guy came
from another community to date a girl in this community...they might get
a little huffy about it.
S: I've heard about a few cases like that.
I: I don't think we have too much of that now do we?
S: Well recently I haven't heard of any.
I: Do you think Prospect is a closer knit community than most of the Indian
communities in the county?
S: Well, I think so, because I'll tell you, it's...if you want to say any-
11
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: ...thing about a small community you can say it about Prospect. I mean
like, if something happens here, you'll hear it over there before, well
it won't take any length of time, I mean everyone knows everyone there
about, or with all their friends, it covers the whole community.
I: And everybody has a telephone down there.
S: Almost, and who doesn't...someone will go tell them about it.
I: Uh huh. Do you think Prospect will actually become a town some day?
S: I don't know. Well, the way people, or the way everything's going, I mean
there's so many more people than what there used to be. I think maybe
some day it might be a town.
I: If the population keeps increasing, there might be a time when everything
will just be a town.
S: That's the way I feel about it.
I: Along the highway...it seems. But uh...what would you like to change
about the county, or within the county, or at...at the university. I'm
not asking you too much about the university because uh...uh...I'm...I
recall in my freshman year, that I may have had the same kind of fear
that other students might have had. I would like to ask you about Old
Main. Uh, did you feel strongly attached to Old Main?
S: Well, I...I hated to see when it burned down. If there's any way possible,
I would like to see it restored.
I: Uh, there are many many buildings at PSU now, and this is fine...very fine
buildings, and they're getting named by different people. But I've noticed
one thing that seemed like a glaring omission to me, and that is that
there is no building on campus named for the father of Lumbee Indian
12
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: ...education, and who was also the father of PSU, aMI|go (Vki, lla ,
the man. Uh, I wonder if the students ever think about this?
S: Well, I'll tell you that. That was kind of like back before most of the
students that are out there now...
I: Well, that's true.
S: It was before their time, and it's not discussed on cmapus, and therefore,
no one hardly realizes it.
I: Uh, do you thinkthis could be a worthy project for oral...for your
organization...you Indian organization?
S: Well, now that you've named it, and I'm going to be honest, this is the
first time that I've heard about it. But I don't know if we could have...if
we have enough power to really, you know, have a name...a name put-on a
building you know, but we could try.
I: Uh huh. Well, you never know until you try it. Sometimes one person can
do it. Uh, you know, he can start...start the ball rolling, and you've
got friends, and it,it gains power. Uh, I'm partial myself, because I,
you know, I studied our history pretty well over a long period of time,
and it seems to me that at a time when we had no-friends among white people.
This one white man stepped out, although it was very unpopular to be a
friend to the Indian people. Uh, it was Hamilton McMillan, who was a
lawyer, and he went to the General Assembly of North Carolina..:.stepped
out at this very time in 1864, and pleaded for educational facilities for
our people. And actually uh persuaded the General Assembly that we needed
education like other people. And uh, although he started in 1864, it
wasn't until 1885 that we actually got the schools. And the law which
13
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: establishes Pembroke State University was not passed until 1887. About
time? And it...it just seems this way to me, and he has always been a
favorite human being to me, and a great humanitarian. Uh, among other
things, he...he studied our history. He believed in the connection...our
connection with the lost colony...the so called lost colony...the English
coloniststiof 1587, who were, uh the first colonists from England to
remain permanently in America. Because these colonists never returned.
And this was thirty years before Plymouth Rock, twenty years before
James Town, so we've got a pretty glorious history. It's been pretty
well established, and by people...by all people who study our history
intimately, and studied the, uh, all the historical documents available,
and all the historical scholarship along those lines. But I'm...I'm
getting off on the wrong foot here. I want to encourage you to give us
your impression, but I wanted to inject that one footnote, uh, you know,
to explain Hamilton McMillan. Uh, do you think there would be any
opposition in the light of this. In other words, do;youhthink!they don't
know...to their...is...there isn't too much about him in...in the
university catalog, although I imagine there is a brief outline, historical
outline.
S: Well, I haven't...I haven't really noticed yet you know, so you need
enlightening. Unless someone did bring up to light, it would be a
it would never be known.
I: Uh huh. Well, perhaps you'll invite me to...to one of your meetings, and
uh, I can tell you some more about-it.
S: Well, the next time we have one...not for sure, but you know, during
14
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: ...summer school.
I: Uh huh.
S: Have to...things have to slack off during the summer.
I: It would have to be...it would pro...yes. It would be better perhaps,
uh, during the fall session...at that time. Uh, how about your dating
habits? Uh, have you decided you can afford a girl friend yet, and have
to study as much as you do or what?
S: Well studying, really, to me...college, you know, is easier than high
school was.
I: Is that right?
S: But uh, affording in the sense of money...I can't do it.
I: Uh huh...the money is a factor. Well, I guess it is with all of us, it was
with me too. Uh, but does it cost more do you think to date now, than it
did a few years ago. I don't mean jsut because of inflation, but...?
S: Well, I think it does. It might be because inflation. I mean like, if you
go pick up a girl now, and if you've got a car...which is one thing I
unfortunately have.
I: Unfortunately?
S: It drinks gas.
I: Uh huh...don't they all?
S: And gas is up too high. Like if I could pick up a girl, it used to be
maybe you could ride around a little bit. But if I don't go straight
somewhere, and straight back, I can't afford to, and if she wants...well,
I can almost afford to go to a movie...to go in the movie, but the thing
is, I've got to go the movie, and that's what costs me money.
15
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Do you think maybe this is why some of the guys go to the Five Lakes
here in Pembroke?
S: Yes.
I: Have you ever heard of the Five...the Five Lakes?
S: I've heard of them, but I've never been there before, because I'm not
from around this....
I: I've heard explicitive about it...uh, this is the local lover's lane
isn't it...is that the way you heard it?
S: That's what I've heard. But I mean like, well, the last few nights I
met a girl...about two days ago, and uh, I picked her up after she got
off of work. And like I couldn't afford to go anywhere you know, because
it costs so much to drive around. But I mean like out where I stayed,
out in my part of the country around Prospect, and around in there...I
know plenty of places where I...well, not open places...I mean like there's
no dance halls, or places where you can go get something to eat after she
gets off of work you can't, so....
I: Uh huh...what time does she get off?
S: Well, she got early last night...she was off about eleven o'clock. But
that still wasn't...
I: Uh huh...and that's still too-late in this area?
S: Still was too late, and therefore, I just went out...out in the country
where I knew my way around.
I: Uh huh.
S: I stayed for about a half hour to an hour, and I figured I'd carry her on
home because today was Monday, and she had to be at school today.
16
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Right, and uh, it does present a problem, uh, I guess economics is
connected with almost everything. Of course uh, young people are pretty
resourcefull when it comes to figuring out dating patterns and things
like this don't you think?
S: Yes, we find a way.
I: Oh ..... you know I've heard uh, sometimes you hear uh, criticism of
our young people uh, in a general sort of way.
S: Yes.
I: And I'm always partial to young people, and I sort of resent this because
I think we older people have good forgeters. You know, we forget what we
were like. And this is something I've tried not to do. I've purposely
tried not to forget the way I was when I young too. And uh, I suppose
this is why I get along so well with young people. Uh, they feel that I
understand them, and uh, while I don't understand everything, I...I hope
I understand a great deal. I...I know that we have many things in common,
and I...I haven't forgotten the way I was. I think young people haven't
gotten any worse, or any better, or do you think that...well, that they
could be better or worse, or...?
S: There's a difference of opinion between me and my father about that.
I: Is that right...it's interesting, tell us about it.
S: He'll read in the newspaper about, you know, every day almost, you hear
about someone getting shot, murdered, everything, you know.
I: Uh huh.
S: And uh, I haven't never in my life shot anyone, and I don't have any of
my friends that shot anyone.
17
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Uh huh.
S: Really, anything around me that I know...nothing like that's happened.
But yet he can sit back, and he can tell me when he was young...a lot
more than anything I've ever done, and yet he says how wild we are
now-a-days. But I think...between all my friends, and what their fathers
tell them, I mean like those boys will get together, and we'll talk,
and that...that comes up sometimes. And among all my friends, all of us
can say what our fathers have done, but none of us can say much about
what we've done.
I: Well that's...I guess that's too bad isn't it. Well maybe we're get...
maybe we're getting somewhat away from that. Uh, do you think the
Indian families are inclined to be a little authoritarian?
S: Well, I believe...
I: Sort of like the...
S: We were a little bit more restrictive, but then in other ways we might
not be.
I: Uh huh.
S: On the children, is...I reckon that's the sense you mean of the way...?
I: Uh huh...yes.
S: Uh huh. I think we are, because...the way I was brought up...I mean like,
I was fifteen or sixteen years old, and I just then was able to date a
little bit. When I was a boy...I mean my father never has talked to me
about dating, but it wasn't often I got to leave the house. That's about
the way it went. And just until this year, about middle ways of the fall
semester, was I able to really get out very much. And this semester is
18
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: ...the first time he'd really just let me go.
I: Uh huh. Do you see a big difference between high school and college.
S: Well...in different ways I see a lot of difference...I mean in the
different ways.
I: Do you think uh, uh, you have a greater freedom of movement?
S: Yes, I do, in college.
I: Do you think you're put on your own in larger measure?
S: Because when I was in high school...you're in school all day, there's
-an instructor with you, and if you...or a teacher. If you don't...you
have to do what they tell you to do, and I mean from the time you get
there in the morning, until you get back home, you're really someone else.
You can't be yourself, you have to do what they want you to do.
I: And if you don't do it, they fuss at you until you do?
S: It can be more than fuss, they can send you home occasionally.
I: Uh huh.
S: But I never had much problem. I usually tried to do what they wanted me
to do.
I: Right. But it's not that way in college is it?
S: It's...you're kind of loose more often in college. I mean like, you go to
class, and you...you're out of class. You may have maybe an hour, and you
have almost a half of day, maybe five or six hours between your class. In
that period of time you don't have to sit, and let someone watch you, and
tell you when you can talk, and tell you when you can eat, and tell you
when you can get a drink of water...tell you when you can go to the
19
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: ...restroom. You're free, on your own.
I: Uh huh.
S: And uh...that makes a lot of difference. I mean when I got out of high
school, I said, "Gosh! no more school for me."
I: Um huh.
S: And then I had nothing else to do, so I'm going to...so I said well, when
I was able to I've got...got to go into college. And so far to me, I
think it's great.
I: Uh huh.And you're sur...a little surprised that uh, you like it as well
as you do?
S: Yeah. I mean when I got out of high school, I had no intentions of ever
coming to college. But just after I first got started, I said...ooh, I'd
go for ten years if I could. That's how much I like it.
I: Well that's good. How about recreational facilities at PSU now? I know
it's improved tremendously. Uh, don't you have a swimming pool, and
everything like this?
S: Oh yes.
I: How about uh...how about the students...uh, isn't there a students lounge
or something like this where you can play the juke box and dance?
S: Or get something to eat there.
I: Right.
S: Watch TV, shoot pool...different games. It's nice. I mean that's about the
best way that I can think to describe it.
20
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: You know that's great. So they're...these...these improvements are very,
these are tangible improvements. They are very important ones aren't they?
S: Yes, I think so.
I: Uh...how about discipline on campus? Uh, do you think it's unreasonable,
or do you think it's liberal, or do you think that it's conservative, or
what?
S: That's one I don't know too much about. As far as discipline, I haven't
never even known it was there, because I do anything
wrong, I try not to do anything wrong. I've never had any problems, no
one has never said anything to me about anything I've done. In the
library a few times...oh, a few times in there, and it's never come on
me personally, maybe once or twice, and then I either get out or shut
up one. That's the way it was.
I: There was talking, and uh...
S: Uh huh.
I: Both talking back and forth? Well that happens I guess, uh, you know, not
only here, but all over. Uh, how about the attitude of the students
toward other students, I mean, I'm speaking of racial groups? Uh, are the
Indian...I've heard somebody say that the Indians, uh now this is what
somebody else from some other ethnic group has told me, and I'd like you
to tell me the truth. Do the Indians sort of isolate themselves from other
groups?
S: That's true.
I: How do you mean?
S: I mean we...we discuss that at our meetings sometimes.
21
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Uh huh.
S: I mean like there's a student lounge that we just were talking about.
And it seems like the Indian students will congregate, or get together
mostly in the library. And that's a place to study.
I: Uh huh.
S: And the white students and the black students go to the student center,
and there's separation right there. I mean like it's coming out of our
intuition just the same as it's coming out of theirs...the student
center.
I: Do you think that Indian students don't feel welcome at the student center;
that there uh, may be an unconscious feeling that they are not...not as
welcome as the others?
S: I think so, because...well, I've talked to some students about it since
I, you know, when it first come to me. Some one named me out, started from
there, I said well I'm going to get out and talk to some of those students
and say well let's go on over there, you knowyrand get involved. And, it's
ours, so why not use it. But they say, well, there's nothing but white
students over there, I don't want to go there. I'd rather stay here. You
just can't change their mind.
I: Do you think this comes from a fear of being snubbed, or something like
this?
S: I think so. I think so.
I: Or maybe uh, from acknowledge that you're outnumbered?
S: Yes.
I: How about the black students, uh, they're in an even worse position than
22
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: ...the Indian students in that respect are they not?
S: They are, but it seems like...well, I just wish we had more Indians that
would get out and do just as much as they would, because you can go in
the student center and they're in there. I mean they're not...
I: They don't seem to feel uncomfortable the way an Indian would?
S: That's right. They do. If I go in there, I'm going to have a purpose to
go in there, and I caught myself at it several times. Like I'm just; -t
starting to say, I go in there, and I get what I'm wanting while I'm in
there, and I'll be back out.
I: Do you think some of this comes from force of habit.
S: I think so.
I: Or conditioning over the years?
S: Yes I think so.
I: Do you think that we have been told that we were inferior so much, or
shown by so many different ways of...of doing things, like uh, the white
only signs we used to have, uh, that excluded us in things like that, that
we've actually begun to believe that we're inferior?
S: Well, not really mostly because...well maybe so in some cases, but the
main thing is, an Indian student wants to be around other Indians. I mean,
white people. I mean I look at all people almost alike. But I mean like
uh...I like to be around people I know. And if they're...if I go in a
place and there's nothing but strangers there, I just get what I'm
wanting and get back out. And that's the way it is at the student center.
I don't know anyone in there.
I: Uh huh. You don't know...well, I can understand that. If I...that's very
23
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: ...reasonable, because uh, I mean this is the...this is the grounds for
the separation rather than racial. It's mostly because they're strangers
to you...is that right?
S: That's right.
I: Uh huh. That's a very interesting observation. Uh, do you dis...do you
discuss this in...in your club, and try to...?
S: We...we discussed it before a few times, but it seems like no matter how
hard we try to get out and get students to, you know, to have free time
to go on over to the student center, they still won't go.
I: Uh huh. Well I don't...do you have any idea as to how this might be
remedied?
S: Well I reckon it...we'd just set it up. Well like each member of our
organization would have to participate in this. And it would have to be
some time whenever there wasn't going to be exams coming up or something
like that you know, we'd have some free time. And when we weren't in class,
it's just whoever wasn't in class the student
center. That would be a little bit tough and difficult to arrange. And then
get the word out for everyone to just come on in. I mean the place was
designed for that. And go ahead and use the place. And I think after we
got it started, we could ease up, you know our organization could ease up,
and you.;know start doing what...whatever else they had in plans...had in
their minds to do. But just to get it started they should do that I think.
Maybe we can get it started some time.
I: Uh, do you think there might be any unconscious fear that uh, to go over
there might cause a racial incident...another racial incident or something,
24
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: ...or somebody would say something unpleasant?
S: I don't...there might be an unconscious fear there, but I mean like,
maybe deep down in our minds we say well if we go over there they might
do something, you know, but I don't think really anything would ever
happen. And I don't...I think you...if you stop and think about it, all
the other students realize that that wouldn't happen. If they'd just go
on over, but they just won't stop and think about it long enough. They
just say I don't want to'do it, and....
I: Uh huh...they just follow their feelings.
S: That's right.
I: And it's been conditioned to avoid trouble, and this sort of thing do
you think...Indian students?
S: Because they're...
I: And our children?
S: My parents always preached to us, go to school, get your education, don't
do nothing wrong, and they figure that they try their best-to do what
they're told to do.
I: Right.
S: And they go by what they think would cause trouble, and what wouldn't
cause trouble and they won't go to the
student center.
I: Uh huh, afraid they might...?
S: Cause trouble, or something might start.
I: Uh huh.
25
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Do you think the fact that you...you would be outnumbered...so vastly
outnumbered, and this might be a contributing factor too. You might think
well uh, if they wanted to they could double team me and beat me up.
S: That's right. Well, like you say, that...that would effect us maybe
subconciously, but like you said, we would have stopped and thought about
it. We've gone over it, but I mean...not all the students are like this.
I mean like there's plenty of them that'll go right on over there, and
it doesn't bother them.
I: Um huh.
S: But I would say there's still quite a few that's afraid to go over.
I: Uh, Indians have been described as being retiscent, uh, also as being
shy you know...do you think that hinges on the same sort of uh,
rationalization...you know, a desire to avoid confrontation, and
aggravating conditions, or agitating conditions, and things like this?
S: That's right. I think that's basically it.
I: Uh, how about pride, do you think...do you think Indian pride has
something to do with that?
S: I don't know about that part. I mean uh, pride...I better not comment on
that. Different ones have different feelings about it.
I: Uh huh. Well how about about you, do you...are you proud to be an Indian?
S: Oh yes.
I: Uh, that's self-evident, I really didn't have to answer that...I mean ask
that question. Uh, I'm sure you are. Uh, can you.think of any other problems
you've...you encountered...say as a freshman going on the university
campus for the first time, during your first year?
26
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: Well....
I: Can you think of any other problems that might...that you might encounter
as an Indian student?
S: Well just by being Indian, I think that would be about the main thing.
I: Is there a lot of curiosity about you?
S: Well not really. I think before all the other students had come...they
already know there's Indians here.
I: Um huh.
END SIDE ONE
27
LUM 91A
SUBJECT: RONALD C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
DATE: MAY 14, 1973
SIDE: TWO
I: Before we ran out of tape we were talking about the attitude of other
students towards Indian students on campus. And I was wondering if uh,
you're sort of...Indian students are sort of a curiosity to the other
students because there are so many other students, and so few Indian
students. Uh, do you think this is the case?
S: Well uh, I see it like this. I think they're really not so curious because
before they come to our university, they must have understood that there
were Indians there. And when they first come, at first they might have
looked at us and talked to us and try to see what we were like, or talked
to other students and asked them about us. And then...but...right now, or,
I don't think there's really that much curiosity, maybe who we are, and
what we are, and they probably understood it before they ever come.
I: Uh huh. Do you think they're a little disappointed because they don't
find feathers, and these sort of things?
S: I don't know...some of them might be.
I: You know a few years ago in 1970, I went over to uh, New Jersey...uh, I'm
sorry, to Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania, to King's College over there, where
I was uh, author in residence. And uh, they were disappointed because I
didn't come wearing feathers. And I said, you people are disappointed
because I didn't come wearing feathers...I'm disappointed because you
don't even know who Steven Ccidns ros+er': is, you think he's a southerner.
28
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: And he was uh, from your state. Ha...ha...this is true. And a lot of
people assume that Steven Collins Foster was a southerner, because he
wrote about the south, and sang southern songs, and this sort of thing.
And so sometimes the people from his own state assume that he is...he
was a southerner. And so uh, I think I had something on them too. But I
knew about that because of my interest in music and so on. Uh, if you had
it to do over again, would you uh, would you want to go to PSU?
S: Yes I would.
I: Why?
S: Well before I entered the university I was afraid to enter you know, I
thought it would be harder than what it is.
I: Uh huh.
S: I didn't think I'd even make it the first semester. I thought I'd flunk
out or something like that. But then after the first semester, I said,
gosh this is easy. And then each time after...well, I haven't been but
two semesters, but it was kind of rough the first semester because I was
nervous and everything, and the second semester I was still nervous, but
uh, I done better the second than I did the first. So, I'll sure go back
in again.
I: I'm sure you'll make it, because you're a Prospector. And we usually make
out one way or another. Uh, Prospect is a...is primarily a farming
community is it not?
S: Yes, uh huh.
I: Do you think the land is very fertile around Prospect...in the Prospect
community?
29
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: Uh uh...I'm not so sure about that. I don't know about the...what.the
soil...
I: You're not a very good farmer?
S: No.
I: Uh, how about uh...have you lived in other communities besides...other
Indian communities?
S: When I was very young, I mean when I was about five, and before then,
from the time I was born until I was about five or six...I stayed in
Ohio. And we'd come down here maybe once a year to visit.
I: Uh huh.
S: But I never did detect any difference.
I: Uh huh.
S: I was down here, and I was about in the...I'd been down here about three
years before I ever found out you know...that there was a difference.
I: Uh huh. Is it a subtle kind of difference, or something that's very hard
to detect?
S: Well at first, to me, it was kind of hard to detect, but now, I mean like...
I: The gradually seep thing?
S: There you go. I mean now it's very easy.
I: Uh huh. Sometimes uh, do you seem to feel a difference in the way a
person looks at you from another group, or do you hear a difference in
their voices when they speak to you, as though they're speaking down to
you? Have you ever noticed something like this, or am I imagining things?
S: Yes, I have. I mean it's from different areas. If its from...well...I'm
going to basically talk about it if it's a white person talking to me.
30
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Uh huh...this is what I mean.
S: If they're...if they're from around here, if they know you and are friends
with you, they talk about the same as if uh, maybe a stranger would, but
most of the white people around here...they won't even speak to you.
I: Uh huh.
S: That's out there at the college, it's about like that. Some of them will,
and some of them won't, but if they're farther away, and they haven't never
seen you before...they're going to talk to you. Some of them will at least.
I: Uh huh...it depends.on whether you're a-customer, or whether there's a
possibility of you voting, or something like this you think?
S: Not all the time. I've had, in my classes, I've had, you know, we'll...you
know Indians are a minority out there.
I: Uh huh.
S: And then, like I've got a biology class...there's two other Indians in
that class besides me.
I: Uh huh.
S: But yet I...I can...I talk with all the other students in there. All of
them will talk to me. But the only ones that show any difference...they
were from right around here. The rest of them, they just talking to me,
and just try to find out what...what-I was, and what's-going on.
I: Uh huh. uh, do you have any suggestions that uh, might work towards
bringing ethnic groups closer together? Do you...or do you think they
should come closer together? I should have asked you that first.
S: I think...I think they should come closer together, but really I don't,
I couldn't point to anything that would bring them closer together.
31
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: I mean just understanding would be the main thing, and that's...that'll
take time.
I: Uh huh. Now do you think uh, for example, that the PSU campus is just
about completely isolated from the Indian community?
S: Uh, that's...that's one I'm not for sure about. I don't think it's
completely isolated, but yet it's not really effective that much by
what happens.
I: Uh huh. Sort of like two different worlds?
S: It is to me.
I: That's interesting. Uh, I don't always like to accept conditions as they
are. Uh, I like to do something if I can about changing them. And I'm,
I'm sure this is something most people have in common. To uh, you know,
uh, college people, and people who have been to college. Uh, do you think
this is true?
S: Hmmm.I wouldn't know how to answer that one for sure.
I: Uh, do you have a desire to change somethings?
S: Well, you mean around...around the campus?
I: Well anything in the county.
S: Oh yes.
I: If you were Aladin for a little while, and were given the wonderful
magic lamp, and somebody said...go ahead, rub it, make a wish, change
anything you want to change in the county...what would you change?
S: The power structure.
I: The power structure? Well, that's good. This is something practical
isn't it?
32
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: Yes.
I: It could be changed. It could be changed in any county...in any man's
county. if enough people went together and
wanted to change it. But do you think we have enough people together?
S: Well, we have enough Indians, but we don't have enough Indians united.
I: Uh huh...but do you think we are making progress in that direction?
S: Uhh...in some ways we are making a little progress, but in other ways,
I think we're just about holding the same. There's still so many
separate...so many ways we're separated. Our name is the main thing that
separates us as far as I can think of.
I: Would you like to talk about that a little while?
S: Well, I might as well. But, it seems to me that uh, for some of the people
like...we've got the name Lumbee around here...
I: Uh huh.
S: Some of them say, well I'm a Lumbee...I'm going to remain a Lumbee, anything
other than Lumbee isn't any good. Some say I'm a Tuscarora, anything other
than Tuscarora isn't any good.
I: Uh huh.
S: But I mean...we're all Indians.
I: Right.
S: And we should overlook the fact whether we're Lumbee, whether we're
Tuscarora.
I: Um huh.
S: We should just say, well if he's an Indian, I don't care what he claims
to be.
33
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: Right.
S: He's an Indian, and therefore he's one of us.
I: Right.
S: But some people you just can't make sense...you can't explain that to
them, and they're going to.just say, well he's a Tuscarora, or he's a
Lumbee, and they're going down on account of that.
I: Uh huh. Uh, do you think some of this is brought in from the outside
maybe. By...say for example, you had a politician who wanted to divide
the camp, and win. And to divide the vote, so it would come out in his
favor, do you think he might uh, help along those lines the division?
S: Well if he wanted to split up the Indian vote, that would be one way he
could do it, but I say other than that...if he wanted to have Indians
supporting him, and if he was for the Indians and he wanted their support,
I believe he'd try to get them to unite, rather than to try to separate
under different names.
I: Um huh. But suppose uh, he had a pretty good idea who uh, would make a
good possibility, a good prospect for a vote, and he wanted to split them
up for that reason. And he knew that there...here are some I won't be able
to get. Then he set them at odd...against each other...is that reasonable?
S: Well it's possible. I don't...I don't know if it has been done, or whether
it will be done, but it's possible it could be done that way.
I: Do you think the political game is played fair in this town?
S: In some ways it's about fair, but in other ways, I think it's a little bit
crooked.
34
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
I: I recall several years ago when a certain gentleman was running for
governor of this state, and the other gentleman, his opponent seemed to
be winning, and so this gentleman was giving a fish fry, and somebody
from the enemy's camp came over and sneaked something into the fish, and
that night uh, a lot of our Indian people who went to that fish fry got
dissentary. They got sick from it. And uh, they...you know, people
started saying well they want to poison you or something, and some people
believed that. And did you know he lost in our county. And he was
supposed to be a friend of ours, and traditionally had been considered
a friend of ours. Uh, that's pretty low politics isn't it?
S: It is getting dirty.
I: It's...it's very amusing uh, how far these things go sometimes. Well uh,
I think we've talked about a good many things. How about economics, do
you think we're better off politic...I mean economically than have been
in a long time, or than we've ever been?
S: I think we're better off than we've ever been.
I: You see a lot of fine houses being built uh, where ever you go?
S: Yes.
I: Albeit on credit probably.
S: It has to be on credit, but, we're improving.
I: I would never be able to build a house for cash, unless I would build a
dog house, or something like that...I suppose. But then I'm strictly in
the minority. How about farming changes and farming patterns, do you think
this has changed drastically within the past few years?
S: Uh, I don't really know all that much about farming. I know now that uh,
35
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: ...really though, the poorer group of people don't have so much land,
they have just maybe an acre or so, and may not even have none at all.
And they just live on other peoples farms, and help the richer people
tend to their farms. Whereas let's say maybe just a small group of
people really own the land, and they're the ones that's got the money.
But all the other people live on their land and farm it for them, and
help them work, and they just barely get enough money to live off of.
I: uh huh. Uh, we have a lot of farm labor. Uh we were going to talk about
this...I want to get away from that though for a moment...uh, we were
going to talk about this matter of names, and this being something that
has divided us. Uh, as you know, the Lumbee name is the law of the land
because it was passed on an act of Congress. It was also passed by an
act of the General Assembly. It was passed by an act of Congress on
June 7, 1956, and by the General Assembly of North Carolina on April 20,
1953. And also before it was passed there was a referendum, and it was
voteduh, by the people what they wanted, and they chose this name. And
uh, so it...it does have a legal status you know, whether some people,
you know, some people are in disagreement with it. Uh, but how about the
name...the name Tuscarora is certainly an honorable name, and we certainly
have people, and I'm speaking as a local historian...we certainly have
people from the Tuscarora group. We...we have Tuscarora blood. Uh, but
we also have some Cherokee blood, and we have some Natamuskee blood, but
the nucleus was the Haterus Indians...this was the nucleus, and uh, if I
had time I could explain all these things, but...why are we so gung ho
about names, why do we get hung up on names...why do we Indians do this?
36
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: That's one thing that's hard to understand. I myself...the name doesn't
bother me.
I: Uh huh.
S: If everyone in the county was united...probably so...anything they wanted
to call it, Tuscarora, or Lumbee, I would be behind it, but it seems like
they want somebody one way, and somebody the other way, and it doesn't
make any=sense.
I: Listen...mean...it might sound argumentive, but it isn't meant to be,
uh, it's meant to be explanatory. Uh, it seems to me, and I really
shouldn't inject my opinion here...I'm...I'm interviewing you. Uh, but
it seems to me that this is a...an umbrella name, Lumbee, includes...would
include all groups no matter what groups they...they all live along the
banks of the Lumbee, where they were found when the first permanent white
settlers reached this area, about 1715 to 1730. Uh, so uh, do you think
our people understand this? Uh, do you think uh, that the dissention
arises from another element, or another consideration, or what?
S: Well, I think about basically the same thing you did. That uh, we were
named just because of the river...because we lived...settled here.
I: It doesn't claim a thing.
S: There you go, it doesn't...it doesn't say what kind of Indians we were.
I: Uh huh.
S: And there isn't any...well as far as I...it's been proved to me, there
hasn't been any conclusive proof given telling me what kind of an-
Indian I am.
I: Uh huh.
37
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: Alls I can do is look at my skin, and I can tell that I'm an Indian.
I: Uh huh, and you know you've always been treated like one?
S: Yes. And uh, that's about as much as can be proven. And other than that
I can't say that I'm one...this kind...I'm from this tribe, or I'm from
that tribe because no one has ever proven to me that my grandfather or
something like that was a member of such and such a tribe.
I: Uh huh. I have a lady's thesis, who came to me and, you know, worked with
me...she and her husband several years ago. And she sent me a copy of
her thesis. This We Would Call Our Roanoke Island Heritage, and you know,
she embraces the lost colony tradition of our people. Our older people
who said we, uh, you know, uh, were descendants of the Haterus Indians
and the lost colony. In other words, the English colony of 1587. You
might be interested in seeing that. It's...it's very scholarly, it's
done by a historian, and uh, if you want to see it later on, why I'll be
glad to show it to you. It really intrigued me. It's so welldone. It's a
well documented...but uh, do you think our people uh, would ev...in
this...in the mood that they're in now, do you think they're inclined to
shy away from an admission of white blood rather than be attracted by it?
What do you think?
S: Well I believe that would depend on the individual, but I believe that
there are some that would try to get away...they wouldn't want to claim
any white blood.
I: Uh huh.
S: Because they've been maybe mistreated before, and by that reason they
wouldn't want to claim any kin, or anything what-so-ever in relationship
38
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: ...with white people. They want to be completely separated from them.
I: Uh huh. And do you think we might have the other extreme too, maybe
in lesser numbers, is that what you're saying, that maybe if we got
the other end of the situation it would be in fewer numbers in the
Indians eye. In other words, it's popular to be an Indian today isn't
it?
S: Yes. I mean,,,there's probably...well, there's probably an equal amount
of people that will claim that they've got white blood in them. But now
you ask them what they are...it's either they're an Indian blood, that
means they're Indian people, their blood islndian, and maybe they will
say well, maybe my mother or grandfather something like that was white,
but that was him...I'm Indian.
I: Oh well, that's a pretty good argument I guess.
S: Yes, it could be argued.
I: Uh, I guess uh, uh, these questions will continue, but uh, it is
interesting that scholars are working on these things, and discoveries are
being made, and some evidence...lots of evidence really...uh, but what
would you suggest to other young people who were inclined to go to
college? Uh, would you encourage them to do it?
S: Uh, I think...I'd try and encourage them to go, because...really...without
a college education, well sure, you can get a pretty good job, and uh...
well maybe not too good, it's hard to get any kind of job now, but it will
help that much more. There's plenty of people now that's been to college,
and still can't find a job, but it increases your chances.
I: Right.
39
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: And I'll tell you, anything that will help you nowadays, you better try
it.
I: Better grab it hadn't you?
S: That's right, because...things are hard, and they're going to get worse.
I: Um huh. Do you think uh, do you think college standards are coming down,
or going up? Or are the people becoming uh, more knowledgeable, and
gaining a better background as time goes by or what?
S: Well I think that the last thing you said is about right. I think we're
gaining a better background, because I can look back...well while I was
in high school...the things I learned when I was in twelfth grade were
also taught in the eighth grade at that time.
I: Uh huh.
S: I mean like there were eighth grade students when I was in the twelfth
that were learning things I'd never learned until I was in about the
tenth or eleventh. So each year things are improving. They should
I: Did we talk about your generation...today's generation?
S: I'm not for sure...we probably discussed it a little bit.
I: Uh, what is your assessment of today's generation, of young people and
the generation gap and things like this?
S: Uh, I think there...there is a generation gap, but not that much. I mean,
I can understand why there is a generation gap. I mean like my father, and
I disagree on several things, but yet again we'll agree on the major part
of what happens.
I: Uh huh. Well it certainly has been interesting talking with you, and is
there anything you would like to add to what we've already said?
40
SUBJECT: R.C. LOCKLEAR
INTERVIEWER: LEW BARTON
S: Well I think I've covered about as much as I can, and I've talked...
I: I gather that you're an optimistic type individual, and it's uh, it's
been a pleasure to talk with you. It always delights me to talk with
somebody that has optimism. And I know we can't be optimistic about every-
thing, but it's certainly great to come in contact with somebody who's
optimistic, and who has hope. You haven't given up on our people at all
have you?
S: No, we're going to get...we're going to get somewhere.
I: That's great. You want'to add anything after what we've already said?
S: Well the only thing that I might add is what we've already discussed
about trying to encourage the younger generation...the ones that are
still in high school...to get those...to try and improve theirselves.
I: Um huh.
S: As long as we keep on improving.
I: Through education.
S: Yes. Try to educate yourself, maybe not at college, but maybe the
technical student, or anything like that that can make you become
something better than what you already were.
I: Um huh.
S: If everyone would do that around here, I think there would-be a great deal of
improvement for the whole community, I think.
I: That's great. I want to thank you for the Doris Duke Foundation, and
for the University of florida's American Indian Oral History Program.
It's been a pleasure interviewing you, and I want to say thank you very
much, and good luck in your studies.
41
|
RSS
HIDE
