|
COPYRIGHT NOTICE
This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.
Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.
This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
107) which allows limited use of copyrighted
materials under certain conditions.
Fair use limts the amount of material that may be
used.
For all other permissions and requests, contact the
SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
LUM 30A
Bobby Dean Locklear interviewed by
Lew Barton
October 8, 1972
B: I am Lew Barton interviewing for the Doris Duke Foundations a-l
"Zmerican Indians Oral History Program under the alstoc-ese of
the University of Florida. I am in the office of the Carolina
Indian Voice Newspaper in Timber, North Carolina and with me
this morning is Mr. Bobby Dean Locklear, who has favored us with
an interview for which we are very grateful Um, Mr Lockleqr
we a.v-eciate your being willing to help us out in this particular
way and I would like for you to give your full name, if you will,
please sir, if you would spell it so that the girl who is typing
will get everything accurate. I will certainly appreciate it.
L: I am Bobby Dean Locklear.
B: What is your position, Mr. Locklear?
L: Presently, Lew, I am serving as a High School Counselor at ____
County High School in RaPford,North Carolina.
c\b
B: I Understand that you haveAbeen nominated as a Robeoson County
Commissioner. Is this correct?
L: Yes, Lew, I ran for the office of the County Commissioner of
Robeeson County in the May Primary and was successful in that
election, which means that I still hav5 to run in the General
election although I don't have any Republican opposition.
B: Well, there's no doubt t- as to rth. or not you'll be elected
because, um, being nominated 'cAn a to being elected in your
case. Right?
L: This is true.
B: And am, w so we're very happy that you got on and you are
Lnmb-a Indian?
L: Yes I am Lew, and very proud to be so.
B: Well tnis is qood. This gives us how many county commissioners
will this give the Indian PeOple?
L: There's a board of seven, Lew, and this will give us two Indians
on this board, and this will give us um, not necessarily equal
representation,but at least it is more than we have had in the
past.
B: Right. This was a very dramatic campaign, as I understand it, and
I want to congratulate you on the way you carried it out it
was um, there was yo mud slinging or anything like this, just a lot
of hard work and you set out to win and you did win and I certainly
LUM A
Page 2
congratulate you.
L: Well thank you Lew, it was a very exciting race, I ran against an
l who had been in office for twenty years, and of course. um,
many people, in fact, most of the people didn't think that I'd be able
to win this race, but I had a plan and all I needed was some
people to help me work this plan. So we developed an organization
and what it amounted "o w.s organization and team work, You know
um, I like that word team, you take um, T for time, and the E for
effort, take the time to put forth the effort, the A in team for
aim, with the right objective in mind, an\M, you'll come up with
the majority that you're looking for ane in my case I was looking
for the majority of the votes. So if you take the time, put forth
the effort, with the right attitude, you'll come up with that
majority Lew, or what ever what it is you're workihg for. So this
is the way I won the election.
B: Well that's certainty an interesting formula and its a very
sensible one and businesslike one, um and I'm certainly glad you won
and I'm looking forward to your taking office and being in a
position to give us at least as you say more representation
than we have had in the past. Um, maybe we should talk just
a little bit about your personal biography and, at 1his point .
Um, what is your age now?
L: I'm 35 years old, Lew.
B: 36 and you're married?
L: Yes, I'm married and I have four children. The oldest being eight
years old, and the youngest being ten months.
LUM A
Page 3
B: .Who was your wife before you married?
L: 1 married Thressa Gwen Revels, the daughter of Mr. Lonnie Revels.
B: Well um, Now what are the children names, Coul: you give us
their names and ages?
L: Yes, the youngest is Brannagan that's an unusual name, its one
that I saved for seven years, he being the last born I was saving
that one because I had never heard of anyone named Brannagon, anyway
his name is Brannagan Ray Locklear then I have um, twin girls
Anilia Kay Locklear and Amira Faye Locklear, and the oldest is
Gwendolyn Denise Lockleqr.
B: All of those are very pretty names to me, I like them, and they're
very original and very appealing.
L: Thank you Lew.
B: Um, your wife, um you married a Lumbia Indian?
L: Yes I did.
B: Uh huh. Did you have gy, any particular problems that yot hadn't
al:ticipated in this campaign? or had you studied it all no and
thought it all -sar very carefully, I'm sure you had, but ha you
encountered anything unusual and unexpected?
L: Not really Lew, I as you said, I thought about this for a long
time in fact, something like four years. And um, I'm a little bit
cocky about thing:- when I set my head to do them, I you
can't tell me that I can't be successful,, Because I had thought
about this and I had to plan it as I said, all I needed was
enough people to help me work this plan. So um, I announced my
candidacy with um, complete confidence that it was just a matter
LUM A
Page 4
of time until the election is over that I would be successful.
B: Well that's great, I'm sure that um, you don't object to the
I, II
title, the People's Candidate and I believe that in this case that
ylu was the choi.-e of the people in the sense of the expre -
ssion.
L: Well I would certainly hope so, Lew I would hope that I am not
going to take office in um, Decembe and not be the People's
Candidate because certainly it would be most difficult for me to serve
the peoplE if I'm not the candidate the people would like to have
and certainly I do plan when I take office to render those
decisions that will be in the best interest of all people in-
volved. Not necessarily the)or not just the Lumbia Indians
of Robebson County but all three races.
B: Right. Yeah, that's great. Um, I was very thrilled with your
victory and 0a lo o Ovy) people were encouraged simply because
we um, never been able to seat a RcbefsPn County Commissioner
in any other area other than um, WA/S Smith Township?
L: Well, we'vwegot one in Smith Township yes, and I came from the um,
well lei s put it like this Lew, there is one county commissioner
from the Smith Township who ran from the Extin Districe, you see
in Robefson County Lew, you have seven county commis: ioners which run
from districts rathernfrom the county at Large So I ran from
the Red Springs District which is composed of seven precincts or
townships.
B: I see. Well, when you t ink in terms of Indian Settlements
LUM A
PAGE 5
and settlements of their Black Brothers and the White Brothers and
so forth, isn't it a pretty heavily populated white area around Red
Springs, or do you think the population is more evenly didtributed?
L: Um, yes it is LewJ, t's heavily populated with whites. Let me
give you, um, the May Primary...well lets say the January prior to
the May pimary. There were approximately, and I cah't give you
the exact figures, but I can give it to you within fifty registered
votes. There were approximately 1850 r-r-stered whites in Red
Springs District from which I ran, there were approximately 1150
Indians registered and 1050 Blacks registered. So, you see, if
I hadgotten votes from the Indians, I couldn't have been elected
and if I'd gotten votes from the Blacks, I couldn't have ... in
other words, I had to have votes from all three races in order
to be elected .
B: Yeah, well this is what makes this, one of the things, the many
things that makes this race so interesting is because you did
win the confidence and support cf people from all three groups
and this is um, this is something which I admire you for very
much. This is what I would like if I were running for office,
I would like to have the support of all three groups. And you cert-
ainly had to have that and did get it and I'M sure that um,
the people th6 vored for you knew1they were voting for, they
weren't just voting for a rnme. But they knew you personally
and knew you by reput".tion-andw*, 1!S they knew you as a doer,
and as a i person. And I'm very happy, and I'm
sure all of our people are very happy throughout the county
LUM A
Page 6
I don'f think you have many ( ) people unless its a few
people who were supporting your opponent. So it was a great
victory This was a great victory to me.
L: It certainly was L:w, and I'm certainly looking forward to
taking office in December and hopefully being ab3,]to do
those things that would be in the best interest of all people
involved.
B: Great um, do you thiarMat take this as an indication that um,
the atmosphere is changing in Robeison and that people are
coming closer perhaps? Understanding each other better?
L: There is no doubt about it Lew, as you know, in the past many
years ago um, it wouldn't have been possible for an Indian to
have won an election of this nature, Because we just did not
have this togetherness r-ong the Indians, the Blacks and the Whites
for that matter, that we now have, and I tink that this has, lot's
say, laid the ground work for an:' future candidateSthat has desire
to become elected officials in Robeeson County especially
among the Indians.
B: Well, this is certainly encouraging, um I know that many people
have worked fora a long time toward t1is kind of goal, I suppose
people has been working since before we were -ver born, hoping that
some lay something like this would happen. I feel certain of that
and I'm glad it has happened for the first time in the history
of Robeeson County no doubt about that. And I know you will be
fair to the people and I know you personally and I know I
LUM A
Page 7
know how honest you are, how hardworking you are and you have so man y
admiral traits, and I'm certainly glad that the people recognized
this in you and gave you a chance and, you know, endorsed youasm, I
keep repeating this but it was a great victory in more ways than
one.
L: I suppose one of the, maybe the primary reason or the primary thing
that really gave me a C and um, you know, told me that I
could accomplish this feat was the fact that I'm involved, well
I'm a veteran and I'm presently the commander of the local VFW
post in? &" and two years ago I was the District Commander
which means that I had the post in three counties1an my jurisdiction.
And in the VFW the, there is constantly competition going on
between the District Commanders in the state of North Carolina.
The State of North Carolina has seventeen District Commanders.
And of course at the end of the year there is an all state
District Commander chose which means that this is supposedly the
outstanding District Commander in the state. then that District
commander that is chosen on the state level, is entered into
competition in the Nation, with all of the other Dl;rict Commanders
in the fifty States. And um, I was chosen that year as an All-
American District Commander which means that I was one of twenty
two in the Nation. Of course I wear a little pin that^I got as a
result of this and I brag about it saying that that year there was
no whites, no blacks and only one Indian that could wear this pin.
So, I figured that if I could accomplish something like this,
then why couldn't I accomplish such a little thing as winning
the bounty Commissioner's race in Robejson County.
LUM A
Page 8
B: Well, that's real faith and that's ... that is a real honor and I
Congratulate you on that because it's a singular honor, right? It's
never come to anybody in our group before, I'm sure and maybe
never will again. But um, this is very encouraging and um,
maybe through you people will see that we do have able people, fair
people, people who will serve all three groups with with
justice and fairness and and. and that we're
not going to be discriminatory a': insft anybody and I think it's
a great opportunity and I'm sure. you'll live up to it. I'm sure it's
a bu- to you.
L: Well, I'm going to do my best Lew, this is all I can do.
B: Yes. I'm sure you will. UM, where did you go to school?
L: Well, I did my undergraduate work at Pembrose State College which
is now Pembrose State University and I did my graduate work,
earning my Master's Degree in Guidance and Counseling at
western Carolina University which is located in North
Carolina.
B: i'Uh huh. Um, did you notice any differences at the different
institutions ?
L: What kind of differences, now lew, are you speaking of in particular?
B: Well, uj,sometimes there has been complaints that um, you know, of
some Indians students that perhaps um, they. weren't treated fairly
or something of this nature, this didn't happen to you did it?
L: No ( 1 ), I would say that I was just another student on the
campus at Western University .
LUM A
Page 9
B: That's great. um, I think all of this i aw changingO
social attitude, and um, things of this nature. And um, I think
that we have a lot to be thankful for as a people. rUm, I
believe um, in every community, I believe everybody should be
proud of his own community and his own county, his own state
and so on, um, are you not also active, very active in the JC's?
L: Yes, I'm still a member of the 4s of course you know this
is the young man's organization, ages 21 to 36, and I'm in
other words, I'll rooster out this year, this is my last year
as a regular member, although I do plan to retain my affiliation
with the 4s as a rooster. Um, I'm a past president of the
Pl&biuoe s and I fehl that the JC's did quite a bit for me,
as you know the primary objective of the JC'S is to-develope
the individual through community effort and um, this certainly has
helped me,being a member o5 the JC's and being a member of the
Pembrose VFW and also my work as a counselor. All of these things
has um, worked together and developed in me the individual that
I am at this day.
B; Well this is another thing that I'm sure you're qualified to talk
about if you like, and that is the development of the 'C's in
this county, particular in the Indian community within the past
few years.
L: Um, it seems that this is a growing organizatiornnd a very active
and effective overall organization each uh, each chapter in the Jo's
they are accomplishing great things and um, doing many things
LUM A
Page 10
um, you know in public interest.
B: Do you know hoy this came about? I mean the interest in the JC's?
Lt seems that un, um, it has developed, you know, more strongly
within recent years than in thh past.
L: Yes, we, I say w this is the Pembrose JC's, we were extended
a charter by the L[ 0b-e 11)' JC's in April of 1966. At that time
we were the onlzTndian, all-Indian chapter in the United States
to my knowledge at least that was what we were told. And we in
turn, approximately a year later extended a charter to the
W Cceek JC's The JC's is an all rural chapter
in fact they were the only Tr( -A chapter in the UNited States
and I, um I guess it's just like a snowball Lew, just jept getting
bigger and bigger, they in turn extended a charter to some body
else and now we have ten chapters that are predominately Indians,
and neither one of them just has Indians, we have maybe, if my
memory serves me correct, I believe we've got two whites ail in
the Pembroke JC's. And at one time we had ai ack but he's no longer
active. But anyway we've got 10 chapters now that's been extended
among the Indians.
B: Well, is there not also a good-sized chapter in ____ County?
L: Yes, 6County is our neighboring county and there's in
that county, 20/o of the population is Indian and they nlso have
a chapter in that county.
B: So, all tthese chapters work together usually on um, on politics
and public interest, don't they?
L: Yes, they do Lew, in fact these ten chapters have what we call and
inner Indian Councilwhich means that um, each chapter has two repre-
LUM A
Page 11
sentatives that make up this inner Indian Council and um, on
important issues, um, that involves the JC's or issues that, um,
or community endeavors, this Indian Council meet and, you know,
iron the thing out, take the. in other words they come up
with the recommendations and they take it back to their various
chapters 16 vote on this and you, know, make it become a reality
of what the issue may be.
B: Well, that's great and I hope it continues to grow, because um,
you've done so many worthwhile things. Didn't Didn't the JC'S
sponsor Lumba6-Homecoming Day this year?
L: Yes, they did Lew, the ten chapters worked together. They had
an overall chairman and they put together this Lumbef2Homecoming
Day which is a gala affair for the LumbC Indians where the LUmb@Es
comes from all over,' .you know we've got Lumbfs living in
probably, all fifty of the states now, t'.t have gone there for
employment, one reason 0i 4/ /.tX not living in
Robebson County anymore, but they always come back home for this
S. that's not allof them, but many of them come back home
for this affair thqt we have that we call the Lumb&-Homecoming
Day. Just a big family reunion Lew.
u
B: Uh huh, Um I believethis year was the was the third um,
annual LumbfW Homecoming Day, wasn't it?
L: That's true.
B: And, do you, do you know how man people, um have you and idea or
any estimate as to the number of people who attended this year?
L: Lew, I don't have any concrete figure that I can give you but
I I would estimat-e that there were, the two days that it went on,
you know, we had a two day affair I would say that there was
LUM A
Page 12
between four and five thousand people who attended this uh, at
one time or the other during those two days.
B: Uh huh. We had participation from people in other areas, countries
as well, didn't we?
L: Yes we did.
B: Baltimore, the Indians, and other groups. ..
L: Yes, we always extend anj invitation to these other groups of
Indians to participate in our homecoming.
B: Well, it was a beautiful aff ir and everything went out so well
and the parade was so gorgeous, you know, um, just um, just to be
a part of this once a year kind of does something for you doesn't
it? It gives you a lift um, it makes it makes pride
too doesn't it?
L: It certainly does Lew. It gives you a good feeling to see that
we can bring together all these people um, primarily the Indian
people to participate in an affair like this. We have um,
anything from, um, the greasy pole climbing contest to um, good
ole gospel singing.
B: Well it certainly is entertaining and um, it was well covered by
the press and things of this nature and we've probably 6onew shots
and things like this. A number of Newspapermen I've met myself
and um, the first two years um, of the um, homecoming I believe
tw) cSCt Ok+) rf^-
we received a from the Governor of this state. Is
that right?
L: Yes we did, designating this one day out of the year as Lumbf6e
Homecoming Day.
LUM A
Page 13
B: This this was um, a big plus and certainly that's something
we can be thankful to the present Governor for. Because this is
one thing that he did certainly did for the Indians.
1 Uim, it was a big plus, in my estimation, and um, it took so much
cooperation from so many people, you know, to get this thing
rolling and have it to operate as smoothly as it did. I know
I got there were so many cars in the parade it took us
about two hours to get just a few blocks. But I had to crawl out
of the car and just stand there and watch the people go by and
yell and wave at them, you know. I this is a warm sort of
thing. It gives you a very warm feeling because you see
people you haven't seen in years and years and um, we still are
idcn'. .ing ourselves as a group and um, I don't think there's
anything that can compare with it during the whole year. Do
You?
B: I'll agree with you, you know these Indians who leave
Robe~son -ounty and they go away seeking employment, they always
like to come back for such an affair, come .ack at Christ-mas
time, some of them come back, maybe at Easter time. You take the
Indians out of Robeoson County, but you can't ever take that
county out of him. lHe till got the to-t e-M 92-4 heart.
Doesn't make any difference where he goes, He's always glad to
come back. In fact, many of them, even after they retire, they always
come back to Robetso n County, to live.
LUM A
Page 14
B: Right. Yes there has to be something here, um, to attract
the people by it and to give them this love for the county, I've
never been able to analyze this for myself. Have you ever thought
about the why's behind um,this almost universal return of our people?
L: Well this is something that is hard to explain Lew, um, I'm the same
way. I don't know of any placed in the U.S. or in the world that um,
I would rather live than right where I'm living here in Roberson
county. Although Ive not lived, well I was in service and I did
a good bit of traveling then and I have, um, worked in Washington
D.C. and um, two or three other places. But I still r their live
in Roberson Uounty. And it's just something that's hard to explain.
In fact, I don't have an explanation as to why the Indians who
leaves Roberson County always love to return. Eventually whether
it be after he retires or what not. In fpct, I've got a brother-
in-law who I finished High School with and he is living in
Greensboro and he's Accountist for House of Representatives
and it looks like Lew, that we may have the first Indian in the
state of North Cardlina to be elected to the House of Representatives
come November, He's got a in fact I'sal he's got setter
than a fifty-fifty chance.
B: Now, this is Mr. Revels?
L: Thi s Mr. Revels ( j e -A.r rr;<) his sister.
B: Um, would you give us. you mentioned his full name a while
ago.
L: This is, his full name is William Lonnie Revels.
LUM A
Page 15
B: Uh huh, Well he certainly is an active person and um, so very
broad and well informed and um. ..
L: You know I'm a Democrat and um, you know all Democrats
are good people, good Democrats but um, the ,._
I'M t that this brother-in-law of mine, He's a
Republican. But um, you know, I kind of feel a little bit obli-
gated toward him for two or three reasons. Umphe had wanted'to know
what I was going to do to help him with his campaign, so I
promised him that I'd help to get a little money to h}k run
his campaign because you know, it does take money to finance a
campaign for television advertising and newspaper and etc. So
um, I got out and contacted some friends of mine, got him up
a little money and took to him. And some of the people were
fc2-4LI n me about this, you know, a good Democrat out
collecting moneia Re ublican running in Gilford County. AdPXA
I told them I had three or four reasons. The first was that un,
I married his sister. Another reason wa he married my
cousin, and the third reason I finished High School with him,
But the primary reasih and the best reason is that he's another
good Indian.
B: Well I um, I'm glad to see t-at politics is taking this um,
kind of turn myself, XI ')I think um, the trend .
and this is a national trend, maybe even a statewide trdnd
at least, if people vete more, don't you think, now for the
personality than they do for the party they're not
or in other words the party is still in tact, the parties are
LUM A
Page 16
still in tact. But the personality of the person do you
think they are that's more important now that it used to be?
L: It certainly is Lew. Um, It's good to have, in fact competition is
great. This is what has made this nation, competition. And it's
good to have a two-party system. And um, my philosophy of, um,
politics is this, it doesn't make. irregardless of what
his race, creed, or color or his party affiliation, if he's
capable and can get the job done, then he's my horse, I'll ride
him.
B: Right. Well, that's certainly a good philosophy. And, um, I
think it's, um, it's great that we're we are getting away
p&<^
from just blindAafiliation. I mean, youknow, just voting for
people because they identify with one certain group, one certain
party or one certain rellgous sect or, it never occurred to me to
be this sound basis, but um, I think, dp you think our
people are being -_ informed on the matter of politics
now they had been in the past?
L: They certainly are Lew, in fact um, I'll say even five years ago,
I could not have won the election that I won, in fact I don't
that I would have stood a chance, but there is more of an
awareness among the Indian people, especially relative to politics
than there ever has been. Um, we had, um, I don't know how many
meetings we had, organizational meeting s, we must have had
twenty five of um, but not only in my district but there
was meetings in all the districts and all the precincts where there
are predominately Indians throughout the county. And um, the
LUM A
Page 17
theme of the talk was politics. You know, um, let's send
somebody to this office, let's send somebody to that office.
In fact Lew, I think that one day we're going to have a member
of the House of Representatives from the Indian people here in
Robetson County. Not just from Gilford County but also here in
Robelson County. Because, let's face it, if we ever get the
people registered to vote and we can get 'em back to the poles,
then there's no reason why we can't be um, successful in our
endeavors to get some. to get representation in various offices,
and this is the only way ASSe- we are going to be heard.
In other words, as long as you're on the outside looking in
you don't stand too nuch of a chance. You've got to get some-
body on the inside where they can help with the policy making.
process.
B: Um huh. I've aften said that um, being. .. living in a county
like this one with three racesiwhere those three races were so
nearly equal that no race is really too much the majority.
Um, it seems to me that t is is an ideal county for the practice;
of um, um, m, fb(rCS. and fair representation and all
that. And um, do you see it that way. do you see this county
as a challenge for the true practice of democracy? You know,
the true representation, and and do you think we'll ever
achieve that goal?
L: Lew I think if we um, working toward that end, I can't give you
the exact registration figures now, you know, there's been
a number of people that's been registered during this period
of registration for this year, but um, January of 1972, I'm
LUM A
Page 18
talking about now, the county as a whole, there were more
whites registered than there were Indi; is and Blacks combined.
-------
So, you see, assuming that let's say that all the whites will
go to the poles and vote, and vote for a white candidate, then the
Blacks and the Indians wouldn't have a chance of gaining a seat in,
on the County Commision board or the Board of Education or any
other office in Robetson County. So, um, the fact that we do
have two members on the Board of commissioners, we also will have
two or the Board of Education. This is evidence that this is
being achieved what we were talking about. 'racticing true
democracy, I think that we um, we'll reach that soon, if not
before.
B: UH huh. Well, that's great. I. this is one of the thing
that makes it great to live in Robefson, instead of going else-
where and running away from our problems. We're trying to solve them
and I think this. Do you think this is true of all three
groups?
L: I believe so. I think so Lew. I have no reason to believe
otherwise.
B: We certainly have made progress and um, there have been
several areas um, you know, in which all three groups have worked
together and this ': been very encouraging to me. Um, during
the past year or two years or three years or however much time
it was But it I long to see and I imagine you feel the
same way, long to see the time come when um, (44 'i4,l4
LUM A
Page 19
county can endorse a project, and go to work and get it done and
it may become one county some day. Do you think it might?
L: believe 3O Well this is um, certainly would be a long
range goal, but I think that hhis is certainly possible, its
feasible to think of it and I don't see why it couldn't become
a reality.
B: That's that's certainly very optimistic and I feel that way
too. I think we have, I just said, so much to be thankful
for and the changes, this is a changing county and yet you don't
find as much resentment abo,.t these changes, it seems to me, as
you do in some other parts of the country. Um you know, where
civil rights um, um, changes took place and um, it seems that the
change is taking place, in'other-jords in this county, have been
very orderly up to date, I mean to this date. Um, it in other
words you haven't had -&e rioting and that sort of thing. Um, (
'E, +r ) everybody certainly can't be happy about a
change. It seem that the people in this county are more or less
resigned to the inevitability of the change. Do you see it that way?
L: Well this is true Lew, You know, um, it's only been in recent
years that we've been able to get any Indians into positions
of leadership and to elected offices. Um, I'm inclined to
believe that um, prior to us being able to get these people into
positions of leadership, that the whites in the county kind of,
um, you know, they feared the ability of an Indian to be able to
function properly in these positions of leadership. But um, I
think since we've been able to get these people into these positions,
that we've proven to them, you know, tteA we do havpeople that
LUM A
Page 20
have ability to perform as well as the white. And this has told
the whites that, well, the: aren't such bad people afterall. They
can, all they need is a chance. You know, we now have um, a tax
supervisor in the county that is an Indian. This is the first time
that the minorities have ever had a person that's been the head
o:3 a department in the county. And um, certainly I think that
this young man who is our Tax Supervisor is very capable. In
fact, um, I have talked with all three races about him and it seems
that um, everybody has nothing but praise I vave not heard a
negative compliment against him, He's able to do the job just as
well as any body else that's ever handled it. And um, this. .
things like this Lew, is what is bringing about these changes.
It's made the white man aware that, um, we've got to work together
as a team in order to accomplish the goal.
B: And um, you-say then that the integrity of the people who .
the Indians who are in these places of responsibility is all
important in helping the people to realize we, um, we can operate
fairly and without prejudice and um, to the advantage of every-
body, I'm not saying this very well, know, ( 41
Is rAPAIL .
L: Well this is trueLew, you know itd.-P( var ) important
that um, if we, let's say run a candidate for office it's very
important that we run somebocd',jho is qualified, who is capable
to handle the job. Because, You know, there's always that possibility
that he can be elected and certainly if he is -'lected, and is not
able to produce when he gets in there, this um, lessens the chances
of anybody else who wants to run for the sameoffice,,you see.
LUM A
Page 21
P
B: Yeah. Well, that's a very practical thing then isn't it? WE've got
to do some convincing and proving ourselves and let People kno'-
that just because we're an Indian this doesn't mean that we're
going to treat you -:fairly if you belong to another group. Um,
you probably would learn over backwards to be fair and honest and
( oV V2e OtC ) in all our dealings. Ur, for ft'
peoples of these groups re concerned, don't you think?
L: This is true and ur, you know, I've heard some of the Indian
people make the statement that um, it didn't make any difference
who the Indian was. If he was running for office, what his
qualifications were they would support him. I can't follow that
philosophy Lew, if the man's not qualified then um, I couldn't
support. If there were two candidates running and one was White,
and the other was Indian, I'd vote for the White man if I thought
that he was the better man. If I didn't think that the Indian
was qualified I couldn't support him. Because um, that person
is not only going to be representing me when he goes into office,
he's goong to be representing all three races. Certainly we want
people in office that are able to represent the people, that are
able to get the job done.
B: All the people.
L: That's right, regardless of what his race is.
B: Well I I agree with that philosophy and um, I hope all our
people will come o see this and not do every-thing on a purely
racial basis. Although we've been um, frustrated for so long, that there
may be a tendency to do this. Um you know, support a manbecause
LUM A
Page 22
he belongs to our group or something. But um, it's certainly
encourqing and um, this is t e best time to be alive, I t ink,
right here in Roberson county, don't you?
L: Yes, this is certainly the time to try to accomplish some of those
things that we have been trying to accomplish for so many years.
Because, as I stated before, the togetherness among the people
is better than it's ever been.
B: Right. And um, you've been active in so many areas and um, as I
said a while ago, you um, you're a doer and every body seems to
recognize you I. you're a great asset not only to our people but
to oir County and to our state. And um, I certainly wish you all
the success in the world ( / i ^ c V tally
because I, I know tA^o /A Af(times when you ur, have to
make some very trying decisions and you find your-self alone,
maybe nobody but you and the good Lord and I know you'll do the
right thing.
L: This is true. c,; / ) i
B: And um, do you see. did you attend the Cii lights here
(,hs 144f s^- /C)?
L: I was able to attend on Friday night Lew, You know they had it
Friday night and also all day saturday, but um, I was only able
to attend friday night, because on saturday I had to go to a
VFW Convey'ion up in Greensboro, so I was not able to attend
saturday.
B: Uh huh. Were you impressed with this, um, with the way the people,
the orderlyness of this hearing and um, everybody, um, nobody
got angry that I know of um, every body was very calm and discussed
LUM A
Page 23,
problems, um, very calmly. This impressed me, and I was wondering
if that partimpressed you.
L: It certainly did Lew, and I think that his is um, this is goo{,
this Civil Rights Commission has really brought tolife some of
the problems that exist, I'm talking about the problems of the Indian
people that the whites were really not aware of. I mean, we've
got problems that the Whites are not aware that we've got. I think
this is just one of the things that the Commission has done, is to
bring to light some of those problems, and um, then there's no
way that you're goong to solve this problem. So, um, and we have
got problems that we can't solve alone. It's going to take
cooperative effort. . . . .
B: This is side two of the interview with Mr. Bobby Dean Locklear.
I believe you got caught at the end of the tape in the middle of
the sentence. Do you remember what that was?
L: Yes, as I was saying that, um, these problems that we've got is
the only way that we can solve them is cooperative effort abong
all three races. Um, just like, you know, we mentioned, that i%
we've got a ax Supervisor who is an Indian this is Mr. James Jacobs,
better known to ue nffocti6natily as Pete Jacobs and as I said
he is doing an outstanding job and of course the only way that he's
able to do this is cooperation from all three races. BEcause you
know the. either race can make it hard on him,." cooperation
is. .. A ( ni1 $ is the name of the game.
LUM A
Side 2
Page 24
B: Right .well in all fairness, um, he. .. I don't suppose he could
have been appointed if we didn't have some goodwill among all races.
Do you think?
L: Well this is true. You know, he got this position aeer as a result
of an appointment by the county Commissioners, and you know we've
got a in other words I haven't taken office yet, won't take
office until December December fourth I'll be sworn in, but"
at the time he was appointed there was a board of seven and um,
six of these were white and one Indian. So, certainly if there
hadn't been tg cooperation on this board,he could've never have
gotten this appointment. Because, he um, a vote from three
whites, and a vote from one Indian. So, this is, this cooperation
at its bedt.
B: Well I I certainly agree and I'm glad you mentioned that
because ur, we do want to corner both sides .. um it (Iri 7t
me sometimes if I .ou know, 'I think of prejudice as being
a three-way street in this county. You can find it among any group
you know, or you can find fair people among any group. So, um, this
certainly proves that um, if if the white people hadn't had
some goodwill toward the Indians, he would not have been there, probably.
Cause there are many plus things as well as negative things um, and I
think it's only fair to refer to these things and um, certainly this
is a commendable thing because no Indian or Black has ever held that
position before:
L: This is true.
LUM A
Side 2
Page 25
B: Um, How 'bout um, I know you're um, you're active in Church life
aren't you?
L: Um, not as much, Lew, as I would like to be. I am not Not
a christian person and, of course jou know, not being a Christian
I couldn't be as active in the church as I could be if I were a
christian. I do go to Sunday School and I like to go tL these
gospel sing in fact I plan to go to a gospel singiP tonight.
And I enjoy this. But other than est attending Sunday School,
S
and going to these gospel singe', I'm not active in the church
like in Sunday School teaching, :.u know, things like this.
B: Uh huh. for the sake of those outside the area, you know, um,
maybe we should explain um, what you mean when you say you're not
a christian. You mean that you're not a professing active
professing christian? .d believe in christian( )
L: Right, right. I do believe yes,Definitely!
B: and you're certainly christian in this respect.
L: yes.
B: o but um, this is a distinction that the young lady brought
to my attention you know the other day, she said"Lew in this
county you're either saved or you're not saved, you're either
Christian or you're not hristian." And um, in the part of the
country where I come from, it. it isn't this way. ( - f
ieAje- A/l- ). .But, because I know you
I you follow a good sound christian principles and you
believe in -2. "- things. And um, do you think our churches
are very effectivee in um, bringing about these changes, do you
LUM A
Side 2
Page 26
think we're getting some help from the churches?
L: Oh, definitely Ldw. During my campaign, um, of course you know, it
was I don't know whether you say, it's a strange thing, but
anyway, the Indians have a tendency. not just a tendency, they do,
separate politics and religions, in that if it's um, if it's
something that's um, politically oriented, then you don't take it
to the church. Whereas the Blacks i'. the county, I'm not that
familiar with% how the Whites handle this thing, but the Blacks in
the county, they do not try to separate their religion and politics.
In fact, while I was campaigning I made several visits to Black
churches where, you know, I spoke and was um, was introduced and
then spoke to the people. And um, I think that I got quite a bit
of support this way, the fact that I attended these churches and um,
worshipped with 'em.. .
B: Well, in the past it seems that our political activities took part
through the church, I mean school communities, whether than church.
But now, that, uj, we're getting integrated schools and so forth,
do you think the trend might possibly change and that we might um,
that the church might become the center eventually instead of the
school?
L: Um, well I would certainly hope so Lew, but um, once again I would
have no. I don't have any reason to believe that it will be
because we've got a. a unique group of people that we the
Indian people are a unique group and um, just well, as I see it
right now, it's um, it's certainly going to take a miricale to change
our church peoples thinking on this thing. They j u s t d o n t
see that um, politics and religion should mix. Although um, the
LUM A
Side 2
Page 27
younger generation looks at it differently from the older generation
Who now W, let's say control the position of leadership in the church.
But um, maybe in the years to come, this picture will change. I
certainly hope so.
B: Yes,I do too. I maybe it'll come about through necessity. You
know they say necessity is the father of invention. Um, I'm sure they'll
continue the function, one way or the other. I've been interested
to see that club houses have gone up in some areas, you know and
maybe the political life ic. taken care of in the club houses, like
a community center and things like this. But this is an interesting
point that our people do separate politics and religion and you're
the first person I've interviewed who has um, noted that, but it's
certainly true. I'm glad you did. but um, I know you're optimistic
about the future.
L: Well, this is true. I certainly hope that the churches All get um,
more involved in the political process, because you know, the best
way for evil to triumph is for the good to do nothing. So if our
good church people don't get involved, then it's going to make
it that much harder on t3:ose who are involved.
B: Uh huh. I think we havy a notable exception to this a-d m
t (e /4t i dPL .... 1 the work that they've been
doing. Um, are you aware of the Methodist church program?
L: .es, um I suppose Lew, one of the t':ings that you're talking about
is um, the fact that the Indians were funded through the United
Methodist Church Conference for a voter registration among the
Indian people. In fact, we were funded with a grant of twenty
thousand dollars and this money was to be used primarily for
LUM A
Side 2
Page 28
voter registration, voter education among the Indian people, although
the Blacks got the same thing. And um, this was certainly an asset
to me in my endeavor to become, um, a County Commissioner because,
um, what we were able to do was to take some of this money and pay
some of the people in the area where I ran or the expenses that
they incur ed as a result of, you know, trying to get the people
to the jaa -to register and also trying to get the people back to
the pAs to::e election day to vote.
B: UM huh, well maybe, um maybe things will keep developing and um,
eventually um other registration is a problem in this county
among minorities. I know, particularly the Indians, because in the
past it has been very difficulty um,Our people were so discouraged
that .is(. didn't actually feel that it did any good when they
voted. And all that's changed within the lastwo or three years
don't you think?
L: There 's no doubt about that, Lew. I know that, um, let me use the
township where I live as an example. Um, of course, I guess this is
um, true all across the nation, but in previous years there has
been many elections that were won that, you know, the planning
was done in the smoke filled rooms. In other words, um you can
go to a township and contact four or five people and um, get them
to say, well, I'm on your side, and that's the extent of the campaigning
you had to do in that area, you know, you win the election if you
got those foru or five people on your side. But um, it's not this
way anymore, it takes organization and teamwork. You can't go to
three or four people. I know the election that I was involved iin
LUM A
Side 2
Page 29
in the township that I lived in, the four or five people in the past
has been able to, you know, say how this election would come out.
I mean that they could influence enough people, you know to carry
an election. Well, um, Lew, I didn't have either of those four or
five people o' my side. I had the people involved that really,
active involved now, that had never even gone to the polls before,
they hadn't -even registered. But we got them registered got them
involved, in other words, I worked with, what we call the grass
roots people. I didn't work with the, let's say, the upper (2C-iela
B: Right. well that's a good that's a good way to operate, I
think. It certainly worked in your case didn't it?
L: Yes, I did a lot of, um, handshaking Lew, I in fact, I
worked day and night. Um, I guess I'M really thankful that um, my
wife didn't divorce me. Because I certainly divorced her during
that period of time. I was gone day and night, knocking on doors
and shaking hands.
B: Right that's certainly great. I um, I think that in the
United Methodist, um, this was a help, wasn't it, I mean, 1L
(sL Ji *f 0 Do you have any idea how many extra people
we've got registered, between this election, I mean this primary
and the last one?
L: Well Lew, it's kind of hard to keep figures in my mind, but um,
let me go back to the precincts from where I live. When I announced
my candidacy, we had five hundred and sixty-four people registered.
And um, on election day, we had seven hundred and sixty-two people
registered. Which means that we added approximately two hundred to
LUM A
Side 2
Page 30
the books there. Now .
B: at's a dramatic increase isn't it?
L: Yes, and I, you know we talked about the PembroJe JC's and what an
assel that these young men can be to a community. The first official
day of registration in my precinct, I took seven members from the
Pembroke JC'S um, with me to that area, and um, they took their cars
and we set up a in other words we were organized Lew. We set
up a little organization with these JC's and$ 560 lf 10
alright now, let's use the name John, alright John, let you take
um, secondary road fifteen fifteen and fifteen twenty two and you're
goin to be responsible for every family on these two roads, see)
you're gonna stop at every home, aoe ___ ____
there that isn't registered and um, the first day that we did
)
this, we added one hundred and four people to the registration
books.
B: Oh, that's great.
L: UM, the following saturday, which was official registration day,
we didn't only pull from that precinct, but we pulled from the
neighboring precinct, which is also in the Red Springs district
from which I ran, And uxp, we could do this because we had a
roving registrar which means that she was bble to go anyplace
in the county at any time and register a person. And thai day,
we added two hundred and fifty-two, if I recall correctly, to the
books. .nyv:', this was certainly um, on my side, I would say that
this attributed to my being elected. The fact that we registered
so many people and got these people and got these people back to
the polls. In fact, in this, to show you what kind of organization
LUM A
Side 2
Page 31
we had, there are, I believe um, maybe you can correct me on this,
is there 39 predincts that we have in Robefson Couty?
B: Something like that.
L: Something like this. Anyway, u4 registration figures as of today,
showed that um, my precinct has the highest number, percentage wise,
we have the greatest per-centage of registered voters, of the eligible
people to register and vote than any other precinct in the county.
CA
And also, um, If I remember correctly, we voted a greater percentage
of the registered voters in the um, May primary than any other
precinct because we registered, not registere:, but voted 79. well
rounded figures 80% of the registered vote. And this is um, I don't
care where it is in the US, this is good in any election if you can
vote fifty. um, eighty percent of your registered votes.
B: Oh, yes. If you can get that many of 'em, that's certainly .
well it does take a lot of hard work and um, and a lot of team work
and it seems to me tiBt our people are awakening generally.
Do you think so?
L: Oh, definitely. They're wide awake Lew, wide awake, waiting for
that next opportunity.
B: If we can just keep them awake.
L: That's right.
B: Our people, it seems to me are, are a little, they're easy-going,
good natured and they. .. they accept things as they are until they
really get aroused. And then when they get aroused, they really
go all the way out. How 'bout the Lumbfa? Bank? Um, c71''k--
S jS (t a great asset?
LUM A
Side 2
Page 32
L: UM, I definitely think so Lew, well you know we um, to my knowledge,
we have a bank that is um, Indian owned and operated and to my
knowledge, this is the only one of it's kind in the US, I believe.
Um, although we do have um, a banker that is um, a white man, we
just about had to do this because te did not have an Indian that .
that had the training, you know, we did not have -ne that was capable.
But um, we have, as you know, we sold stock to Indians and we sold
a few stock to some white people and to some Black. But um, we've
got a board of directors that um, are all Indians and this is just
great Lew, I nean, why should'nt we have um, an Indian bank.
B: Right, .we've covered a lot of ground and um, um, you know,
it certainly has been enlightning to talk with you. It just occurred
to me, when um, we had to pause briefly and I got a drink of water,
um, that we're using this office, this newspaper office for the first
time, it seems for official business and um, we do consider this
to be official business because we are hoping to make this a newspaper
for the Indians LiI their friends. We don't want to exclude any
friends. Or people, um, we don't want to be that narrow, it's. .
but it is an Indian newspaper and um, C lA A A fA- *t
( o you have any impressions bout what we've done
so far? You were kind enough:to meet with us last night, and we dis-
cussed some things and came over here to this office for the first
time. Um, we've got um, historical um, things on the wall, it's um,
located over here on seve/eleven, and um, I'm just wondering if um,
you have any ideasOThis is a beginning sort of, and it was my dream
that we make this also Ithat we 1 DChC cS j
an information center fdr the Indians of the are, and of course
LUM A
Page 33
Side 2
this would take some time, but you can look around in the office and
see um, any Indian atmosphere or anything like that?
L: Well, there's Indian written all over the walls Lew, and it gives
me a .a grand 6nd glorious feeling to think that um, we may be
able to make this thing become a reality, that we can have a
newspaper that is, let's say, Indian-oriented. This willgive the
Indians a voice of their own through the news media. You know, in
the past um, it's not been always true that the news relative t: the
Indians has been objective. And um, certainly this will give us an
opportunity to publish thhse things that um, are relative to the
Indians. without any biased opinion. And um, I certainly hope
that we'll be able to make this become a reality. I think, that we've
started off on the right track to the fact that you are um, a
poet and a writer, and you're going to be the editor of this news-
paper. This si another asset on our side, that we can have an
Indian editor and the fact that we're going to sell, hopefully,
to sell all these subscriptions that we anticipate being able to
sell and working through the ten Indian chapters to sell these
subscriptions. I can't see any reason why it ought not to become a
reality. And I'm just feeling enthusiastic about the whole
thing.
B: Well, certainly appreciate that, and um, I'm praying with all
my heart that it will be, because it seems to me tjat any community
without a voice, is a very ad community, you know? ffil f/ y
stand point of communications, we have am, been v)
haven't we?
LUM A
Side 2
Page 34
L: We certainly hqDe Lew.
B: If we can just keep our people informed as to what is going on in
their interest or against their interest, um, I believe this is part
of the democratic process and if you don't know what's going on, you
don't really know how to vote, it seems. And um, we certainly
appreciate your interest and help and cooperation and um, we're
fraying that it will be a success.
L: Well, this is true and um, you know, the majority of the Indian
people are interested in the happenings among the Indians. We've
had so many things that have taken place in the past year or so.
You know, we've got a um, an Indian who is a member of the Indian
Claims Commission in Washington. We had an Indian '.who attended
the Republican Convention National Convention, in um, Miami
Beach, Florida, this is um,Mr. John Robert Jones k also
had an Indian that attended the Democratic National Convention in the
same location, who was Mr. Adolph is was first
Indians, Lew. We had an Indian attend both of those. And you know,
it's um, it's good to say you got somebody on both sides of the
fence. and um, you know, we've got a as we said, we've got
an Indian Tax Supervisor, who just had an Indian election to the
County Board of Commissioners and another Indian elected to
the County Board of Education and um, the same Indian who attended
the Republican Convention, Mr. John Robert Jones, is also, he's not
just the Chairman of the Board of Elections, Robetson County Board
of Elections, but he is an Indian Republican Chairman of the
Robeeson County BOardQf Elections fLtT1 / ai&4 al
the difference.
LUM A
Side 2
Page 35
B: Oh yeah. . Right, and um, this caused quite a stir when
this happened too, didn't it?
L: Yes, it was um, really Lew, I don't know exact;y what happened,
you know, I read the paper .
B: Well, I don't either, except what the newspaper carried, I wasn't
there. But um, I know that it created a lot of interest and so on,
but um, even so, it seems that the changes that have come haven't
caused hard, deep down, bitterness, it seems to me and I'm
wondering if you think this is true.
L: I think so. I don't think that there's any hostile feelings um,
um, from any one group toward another because of this, I
really don't think so.
B: Uh huh, you know it will be something of a miracle if nobody felt bad
about any change and I'm certainly hoping that what ever changes
take place in the county, will take place in an orderly fashion
Without violence and this sort of thing. Um, which um, .
I know we have been sitting on a powder keg for a long time, it
seems, and um, I'm hoping that we'll get safely over any strong
feelings and get on with the business of being citizens and living,
solving our problems, and considering other .groups as well and um,
there are times when I'm a little pessimistic and um, but every
thing looks good now, doesn't it?
L: Yes, I think now is the time and if not now, when and if not us,
who.
B: Right. That's a good way of putting it. And I certainly have
enjoyed this interview. It's been most informative am, .
LUM A
Side 2
Page 36
are there any other things that you would like to ask?
L: No Lew, I think that we've covered the subject pretty well .
the subjects pretty well. I don't know that there's anything that
I ought to Jk and..
B: Well it's certainly been a joy and it's been host informative and
um, I certainly wish you (fW e 0 b in
your office and gge &ljr cu'tN f )continue to progress
as a matter of fact, I hope this not only for our people, but for
all the people in the county. Um, as you know the promotion of
understanding, human understanding is something that's always
been close to ijf heart and even when I have to write a story for a
newspaper of a negative nature, when you know, there's something
bad happens and its my IO to report this. t
a position sort of, as they say, "damned if you do and damned if
you don't," you know.
L: Um huh.
B: The reporter has to report it. Um, I, I'm glad that there
hasn't been more bad things happened. We've had more good news
to report than bad news.
L: This is true, you know lately we have Lew. This is great .
B: You know, there was a newspaper, you know, within the past few
months, um, which was eStablished on the principle that it would
print only the good news, and un, the last account I've heard of this,
about a month ago, it had gone broke. so I guess it takes both
sides but it certainly is a joy to report good news and um, although
we know it's as you said about the problems, if we if
we're not able to bring the problems before the people and let them
LUM A
Side 2
Page 37
khow about then then there will be no way of anybody solving .
and I'm afraid this has been true of the American Indian generally.
UM, the general public just hasn't known how rough things were for
the American Indian generally, and I believe now that they are
learning more about this in communications, um, including
all those things, um, that the future not only the Lumbfli
Indians, but of the American Indian in generallyliJ rFi' C1
^, e4 becE@!, in the history of his country. I
believe v"l. ? + .tfr 4
Again I say, thank you very much for being with us. .
L: And, thank you Lew. I certainly enjoyed the interview and um, I
hope that um, I've been able to say some things that may be
enlightning to anybody who may be interested in learning about the
LumbU Indians.
B: Well you certainly have# at you contributed to the program.aW
vas-tremendous and we appreciate it so much. And Thank You so
much. .
L: Thank You.
|
RSS
HIDE
