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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
LUM 15 A
Willian CastOr Locklear
Tape #12
Intergiewed by
Lew Barton
August 25, 1972
IDL- Typist
B: This is tape 12, side two. I'm Lew Barton, interviewing for the
d1d i't
Doris Duke Foundation, i-the Oral History Program. Today is
August 25, 1972, Tdin my home in Pembroke, North Carolina,
0o( a Mr. William C. Locklear has consented to favor us withan
interview and at my request, um, came over and um, we are here
in Pembroke, North Carolina at this time. This is where the
interview is taking place. Mr. Locko.ar, I certainly
appreciate your being willing to come over and grant us this
interview. Um, would you mind telling her, ( W(SJ 5 )
first of all, um, your full name. .. wo ld you mind spelling it?
L: My name is William Castor Locklear. W ut L-( t C- 4-S-7?--
B: Um huh. And 'bout how old are you?
L: Fifty years old.
B: Um, you've hit the half century mark then.
L: Yes, I certainly have.
B: Um, would you mind giving us your birthday?
L: I was born August 31,1921. In fact, as you c-n see, I'm almost.
fifty one.
B: Well um, your occupation is a teacher, is that right?
L: Yes, I'm a public school teacher.
B: Um hth. um, how 'bout your father and your mother. Let's get
a little something on them. I. ..
L: Well, my father is a minister, ex-school teacher, ex-farmer,
LUM 15 A
Page 2
ex-businessman, he's seventy five years old. My mother who is
deceased, was an ex-teacher, um and housewife and of course she
worked along in the business some. Um, my father at one time,
for several years, had a dry cleaning establishment, my mother worked
right along in there, it was a family, operation thing.
B: UM, your father was, was the first Indian Mayor of Pembroke,
wasn't he?
L: Yes, he was the first Indian Mayor of this town, Pembroke.
B: How many terms did he serve?
L: He served six terms, a total of twelve years.
B: Um huh. Your father is one of the best known and/oved of um, all
the Lumbee Indian leaders that I know anything about, and um,
um, he certainly has made a grand contribution and you have too.
Um, would you tell us um, how many years you've been teachihg?
L: I've actually taught eighteen years. ..
B: Um huh.
L: I have credit for twenty one years because of te service time
during World War II.
B: Um, you did some teaching while you were in service?
L: No I did not do any teaching but my education was interrupted by
my service time and the state when my, the State Board of Education
certified me as having as having trL--e years of experience
before I even started teaching.
B: Um huh. .well this is just something that they did for referle- .e
L: something they dd for referrcne um huh.
B: Well um, how 'bout your immediate family (
LUM 15A
Page 3
Um, you're mafried?
L: Yes, I'm married, have one child. .
B: Uh huh would you .
L: 9 six years old .
B: And would you mind giving your wife's name?
L: My wife is Esther Richardson Locklear.
B: Um huh. .. gnd um, you've lived in Roberon, p.'ctically all
your life or great deal of your life?
L: A great deal of my life. I was born of course, in Robe;on
County, but ( cO#l' SIJUl ) time and work away
from home ( l e .) maybe I've been gone
from Robeson County off and on for about twenty of my almost
fifty one years but I would always come back home in
between these periods of ( --pBv' ),
B: Um huh, do you think this is true of most people who
leave Robrson, most of the Lumbee Indians who leave Robeson?
L: Quite true. quite true. Very few people ever leaves he-e
go away and stay.
B: You know this sort of reminds me of the ( Jlal\ ). They
don't have a song they sing, you know, like the Hawains have, but
um, there's a tradition among the Hawains, that if you ever go to
Hawaii, you can (tOS PB- return and especially so if they
sing "Farewell to Thee," you know. Um, I think this is um, a
romantic idea because um, people are very much a6raoted to the
county with all of its problems, with all of its difficulties ,
with whatever arises, this is still home isn't it?
LUM 15 A
Page 4
L: Very true. sort of like the old legend of the elephants.
The elephants come back home to die.
B: Um huh, yeah and but you don't it's hard to
decide exactly why this is isn't it?
L: Well. .. our group, ....... the Lumbee Indians has always
been a clanish sort of people. and they know exactly the
treatments they will receive in Roberson Couyty. Deep family
-io
ties ur, it just seems eventually always come
back.. very few stay away ( COW. VM A -=( r
B: Um huh. .do you think 'hen they go away it's usually with
the idea um, that their being away is a very temporary kind
of thing?
L: Right, *tk that's usually the case.
B: and usually leads economic reasons.
L: economic reasons, yes. maybe they plan to go away and
make their fortune, so to speak, then come back home, retire .
come back home to retire.
X-e'AJ?>C--4Ze44-
B: We-ther described in the past ( Z4 C ) loosely knit
community ut um, it seems that this idea that we're discussing
um, tends to ( 4- ) that we're loosely .
t r r
that we are loosely together community wouldn't you think so?
L: Yes. we um, are a rather close knit um, if you um, for
example um, if you had to have help some some way, um, you
wouldn't be afraid thht you wouldn't receive it, from
somebody, if you were here. if any kind of emergency or that
sort of thing happened to arrive in your life, an unusual thing,
5 ou can always find help. here. Whereas in some other places,
0
LUM 15 A
Page 5
most any other most any other place you might have a little
problem, in fact you would. Might have a problem getting help ..
immediate, emergency help you can always get help here .
from someone.
B; Um huh do you think there is more neighborliness among our
people than among um, other ethnic groups?
L: Oh yes, oh yes. Everybody is everyone else's neighbor .
yea*-c
B: I rather like that idea myself. and I and um, it's a
wonderful feeling to know that there are those who understand
you and um, ourlkind, so to speak, you can always depend on
some of our people. If we get sick and we were destitute, um,
somebody wial help us, wouldn't they?
L: Somebody volunteers to help ( hA CL .) situation
of that kind.
B: Well did you sense or feel any difference in attitudes towards
you in the years that you were away? Now you spent, um, some
time in service what were you in?
L: I went to service in 1941 April prior to that i't-
bccnte World War II as far as the United States is concerned. .
in being actively engaged. Um, I stayed in almost five years,
I was in the Army Air Corps. There was no such thing as Air Force
a separate branch at the time I went in. I did not go
overseas, I was in all during World War II. discharged in
November of '45. Um, I did several things while I was in service.
I was, cooked, for a while and I was a aial gunner on
B-17, taken/and made an instructor gunner/instructor and
LUM 15 A
Page 6
at the time of my discharge, in Springfield, Illinois, I was
working at a separation center, trying to get the boys back
home get 'em separated from the service. And I finally got
separated myself, and came back to Pembroke, < naturally.
I say naturally because it was home always has and
always will be. and um, completed my college education after
the War. using the GI (Bill of Rights -- ) 'courseI
had to work a little bit too, it wasn't paying too much at
that tine.
B: Um huh. um, your mother =r,I believe let's see .
did you tell me who she was before she married your father?
L: My mother was Oxendine, Annie Lizzie Oxendine.
B: Um huh, wasn't she a teacher too, at one time?
L: Yes, my mother taught she taught umr, 'bout seven years as I
recall.
B: Um huh. is your mother living?
L: No, my mother is deceased.
B: arE how 'bout your father?
L: MY father's living.
B: Um huh. well um, you certainly are ne of the ost prominent
families in the ( ) appreciative of the contributions
made by your family. Um, tell us about your sister's and brother's,
how many in your family?
L: Well in my family there were twelve children. Now.of the twelve,
two, the oldest and the youngest were adopted children. Um, the
"aloted .the first adopted child, the oldest child, is older
than I am by four years. Um, all of us went to school. Of the
LUM 15 A
Page 7
twelve, nine hold a teacher's certificate having finished four
yeqrs of college. The other three finished high school plus
some college. Now not all twelve not all nine of us are
eng-ged in teaching :t this time. we are qualified. Some
went into other lines of work. I have one brother who is a
policeman with the Roberson County Sheriff's Department, working
with narcotics. he's a narcotics agent.
B: Um huh, what's his name?
L: His name is Joel Garth Locklear.
B: Um huh and um, is you fam has you family scattered
any?
L: Yes. Um, my family scattered quite a bit. I have one sister
in Florida, one brother in Pennsylvania, a sister and a brother
in Oklahoma and the younger adopted child is in the process
of leaving Sunday 9 .. this sunday coming, going to Pennsylvania
to take up diesal mechanics. He wil e gone he will be
in school two years working and going to school. I have
one brother who has recently moved back to Robeyson County,he Aas
S( eu, ) a government poverty program, he is the Director
of Manpower in Rejeen County.
B: Um huh ( )
L: and that boy is Roderick Glenn Locklear. .
B: Uh huh well um, each one of these um, brother's and sister's
ccmes home at least once a year, don't they?
L: at least once a year. They try to make it twice and
my father and some of the members of the family who reside here,
LUM 15 A
Page 8
quite frequently, visit them where they're at.
B: Um huh you received your high school& education here in
Pembroke?
L: I received all of my education right here in Pembroke. ..
Pembroke Grading School, Pembroke High School and Pembroke State
Pembroke State College at theatime, of course, but it's
a University now.
B: What year d0d you graduate?
L: I graduated in 1947.
B: Um huh ypu graduated the same year I was editor of the um,
Pembroke Progress I believe.
L: That is correct.
B: KLSL/L cL r t^ -
d ^ 5 Z7 r'' e ). iUm, I um, the
purpose of this program is to acquaint other people in other
parts of the countryy with the work um, with information
regarding the lives of our people and. um, something about
olr existence and um, what it's like to be a Lumbee Indian and
um, um, the differences between our group and other groups, and -/
( 7t 4 ) and um, any
comment ,4ae you would like to make at any point, (
'P ) feel free to make them because this is the
purpose of the program, ':,, a good many people want to really
get acquainted with o r people, um, d < B U-
0 prominently in um, in the lime-light, so
to speak. so um, I would like to talk to you a littleit
if I may, about um, about attitudes, socio-psychological
LUM 15 A
Page 9
attitudes, or just plain old racial attitudes or um, did you
feel prejudicesagainst you in other parts of the country. when
y&u traveled?
L: Well some places I ielt some prejudice um,. .. I worked
around I worked in Cumberland County. I taught school
in Cumberland County. ..
B: that's the county adjoining .
L: That's the county immediately joining Robedon County on the
north. um, I felt some prejudice there. There's Indian
gro ps up there. .. people who ha migated there from Roberson
County, from Sampson County, from um, Hornet County, .Hornet
County is the county immediately adjoining Cumberland County on
the north of Cumberland County. .um, it was a Spairsh little group
up there, but I found that if a person carried himself properly,
dress, ( 1b6d
very well, and um, in fact time, Lmbee Indian could go
in-t a restaurant, theatre, ( () any public places and
receive cbut the same treatment as did the hites.
B: Um huh, and did this contrast with the attitude in Robeson
( r/lp i? ,a ;
L: At that time, yes. At that timdai still. .still the same
thing now in some places. um, at that time you were not
welcome, in fact you were forbidden in Robeson County, you
/C
just couldn't get served in / restaurant other than in Pembroke
.you could not get served in the other towns in Roberson
County, unless they mistook you for white. And nobody ever mistook
me for )ite,
LUM 15 A
Page 10
B: well um, you have a you have a, sort of a bfonze
complexion and um, the Indian's complexion is a characteristics
of Indians and I um, I wish I had, by the way, um, I don't
like to be mistook for white and um, I don't like to be mistook
for anything. Um, so um, my problem has always been informing
people, you know, that I was a Indian and um, 'course I usually
do this right away when I when I'm in a new community.
Well um, so you think that um, the Lumbee Indians are
now served in these places, in public places, since the Public
ACT
Accommodations right was passed, the Civil Rights Act of 1964,
I believe. Um, they do sOse, but with reluctance, do th ?
L: In a lot of cases, they do serve because the aw says they have
to.
B: and you don't think trheattitude has really changed?
L: I don't. I don't think attitude has really changed. Um,
it will take a lot of dying a lot of the older ones have to
die before that attitude changes very much.
B: Um huh. So you think that you think this prejudice is that
deep rooted. o4 /y //
L: I most certainly do. Um, it's been Et ( )
hundreds of years and you just can't legislate it out of people.
Lt
B: Um huh. Well um, how 'bout the attitude of our iLack brother's.
Um, have we not also suffered prejudice um, from the lack
community as well as the whitess 39 A-- --
L: Um, we most certainly have. .. the lacks did not want to accept
us a bonafide Indians, um, they had all kinds of names for us
LUM 15 A
Page 11
orRath4e they did not. .. t ey did not emOd it because somebody
would have hurt someone. But you could hear it, you could feel it.
B: Well prejudice is a thihg that you can actually eel isn't it?
L: You can feel it .
B: and the person doesn't have to say a word. Um, when you come
into contact with him, whatever his race, you can feel, um this
animosity. wo ld you describe it as animosity or mistrust or
um, maybe a combination of the .
L: Maybe a combination of the two .
B: and of course, um, this is an angle that politicians take
advantage of isn't it?
L: Yes .
B: And they .and they try to promote this kind of thing)( Cu4f -
for political reasons, it seems. 40 you agree?
L: I wi. agree with that one hundred percent.
B: But, are we making any progress in this way, um, as you know I have
always been interested aed promoting understanding between all
people, I love all Americans and I love and I love the
American Indians and the Lambee Indians more perhaps, um, in a
special 3Syway because, um, I was born in this community
and I know a great deal about Indians and what$4ndians have
suffered over the years. But, um, um, this is a .
you can't thinlLof any way that we could help to overcome, um,
you know, these barriers. I know you personally and I know
you've worked in other places and um, um, I know you have friends
like myself among all ( c b/4) ), and um,
LUM 15 A
Page 12
I'm just wondered wondering if you have any special kind of
um, recommendation which might help us in overleeki-m these things.
L: Well, being a teacher and I hope a broadminded teacher, I hope I
don't have too much prejudice in my heart. I (z M
that I don't against any other grop. I've C(4leO o teach
the children under my care the equality of all people and I tLink
that if we have enough teachers, who feel that same way, that we
can instill it in the young people, children coming along now,
and they carry it through their lifetime. Some of them .
some of these children of today will teach their children .
some of them not all, that all men are equal 'and that is
going to be our open our salvation to eliminate so much
prejudice. We made progress we have some people who I
think are genuine genuinely, um, who feel that all men are
equal but we dop't have enough of them.
B: Um huh um, well, that's that's great. .I'm
glad that we'reminking some progress and and um, I'm
praying that we continue to Make progress. Maybe we better
stop here for a moment and check our tape.
L: Yes.
Veey
B: Would you I'mAsorry tRAO we were interrupted by a phone'
call, Mr. Locklear, um, I really should've taken this phone off
the hook. .. I didn't and I had an engagement later on
in the day. Could we pick up um, I'm sorry for the interruption,
could we pick up where we where we were talking about the
equality ofmen. Um, you (ppaee ) your belief in this. Did
you want to expand on that any?
LUM 15 A
Page 13
L: Well, I I guess I've gone 'bout as far as I would care to
go on it. I amDa firm believer in equality of all men.
B: Well, that's what this country stands for, I mean officially at
least. And um, I certainly share that belief and um, do
you see hope that eventually, um, this will come about?
L: It will come about, I think. But not in the near future.
Bt Um huh, we shouldn't be over-optimistic then, should we?.
L: No we should not, however we made great strides in th ast few
years.
B: Um huh .
L: Um, quite a bit of progress. .. I think. quite a bit.
B: Um, we mentioned in a vague sort of way the mistrust between
races. UM, do you think this is a factor in Roberson County,
mistrust and um, suspfcian or fear that um, do you think
there's actually the fear here that Lumbee Indians will out
compete um, white brothers or our lack otherss or .?
L: Well um, I think. I think the um, other races. .. I
surely think it crosses their mind. I surely think it crosses
their mind. Now, there was a time not too long ago, where
you would have a te landlord, farm that is farming.
His children the landlord the white landlord's children
attended school daily. The Indian children and the Negro
children were forced to miss school the landlord insisted
on it. miss school, stay home and keep the crop going. Um,
I've always heard that the landlord wanted to make sure .
well he had a double purpose for that. He wanted to make sure
that the Lumbee would never catch up with the white educationally
Q'*iiiiu-)
LUM 15 A
Page 14
economically, and so forth, and of course there was the um,
money part of it. he wanted to make the farjproduced every
thing it could possibly produce. money crop that is. In fact
I've known of cases that the landlord would alot only a small
amount of space for a family to raise a garden, to raise food
for their own consumption. When that that happened, over in the
wi-ter, the fare1 would have to go to the landlord and um, buy
from the landlord at exhorbitant price a7d of cours:- it was
deducted from um, the proceeds of the crops next fall. And
quite frequently there iwe families who never came out of debt,
never. In fact, they amounted to almost being a slave. You
couldn't leave you couldn't leave the farm. They would
black-ball you among their friends and the families could not
move to another town and it was just a vicious cyct.e for lots
of things. And that didn't happen to me I'm very fortunate
({ 4 jr ), that did not happen to my family, I'm propd of
it, but it happened to lfte of Lumbee families.
B: Um huh. This um, there is a rather sharp contrast between um,
um, people in our own community. We have those who are .-esperately
poor and also th-se who are well to do. We have dmn, landowners
and we have those who are not landowners. Um, but our people,
it seems have never given u and am, although they've lost
mrss of their land in .he past. Many of our people have worked
and um, bought land. Now do you have any idea that we um, the Indian
people own as much as a third to a fourth of all the land in
Rob eon county?
L: No, I don't think it's that much. I don't think it's 6hat much.
Now, there's one section that comes to the mind particularly,
LUM 15 A
Page 15
in ijthis county. The prospect community, where practically
everyone theie is Lumbee Indian, and practically everyone there
own their own home. And there's some large landowners up there
by i- standards in Robison County. Some large large
landowners, and they gu'rd that land jealously, under no circumstances
will they let it git out of the family. And I'm pro!-d of that
group of people, in fact, that's where my father comes from. He
is ut, he is from the prospect section. My relatives, my paternal
relatives are all there.
B: This is um, roughly the center of the Indian Community, isn't it?
L: Yes, this is considered the center of the community of the Indian
community, Pembroke.
B: Um huh. Of course here in Pembroke you have um, we have the
three races here. Um, it's still predominately Indian but um,
we have a small lack settlement and um, a very small White
settlemdfit don't we*
L: That i '-:rrCrtL. that's right. The Indians um, the Indian more
or less controls his own destiny in Pembroke, as far as Robearon
County is concerned. They.. we have our own Ma-:r, the Indian
Mayor, the policeran4 the town commissioners our Indian businessmen
um, professional people. Well, we are the center, we are the
center of the Indian population. Al things in Robezson County
pertaining to Indians point toward. Pembroke.
B: Um, do you t ink our being um, somewhat independent, has helped
-sr in this .. you know, um, one writer says that we are one of
the very ( few ) groups of American Indians, if not the
only ones, W have developed a sol.j a solid middle class.
And um, about how large is this middle class, a portion of the
LUM 15A
Page 16
Indian population, cE you estimate or woyld?
L: You mean in comparison to the so-called upper-class and the
so-called lower-class?
B: Yeah, well I'm primarily thinking about professional people
such as yo rself and we don't have any very rich people. ..
L: No, we don't have ahy very rich .
B: we have very poor though and um, but we do have this um,
our middle class group, the professional group, and um, have
you any idea or would you ( Cj-eLU4- CL Q 6- ) how
large this group is, how much of the total Indian population is
comprised .. ..? r
L: Well, maybe around forty percent. (
rough estimate I would think maybe that.
B: Uh huh. we do know that we have um, more than five hundred
people who hold college degrees. Do yo think that's a very
liberal ( eDZ ), or a ( ej OUAU& I)?
L: "hat would be a about right. That would be somewhere um,
about right.
B: Um. um, we havoome contradictions in this county. For
example, the land, the soil of Robeson C&unty, you know,
Dr. E. Stanley Jones, um, the great, um, (_ ) Methodist
leader, ur, said a few years ago that this tgithe second richest
soil .n the face of the earth, second only to that of the Nile River
Valley. An m, yet Robe/son is um, when you regard it as an
overall imf' it's um, it's certainly a very poor county
urn, however know there's a great deepir, r, a rag difference
between 16Fe annual income, Indian annual income, 1*fr annual
LUM 15 A
Page 17
income. Um, life. .. can you explain this this is something
I've always wondered about Um, this contradiction that the land
um, is it because the land is managed in the way that it should
be or um, um, all Robersonians, I'm talking about all three i
races, have failed to um, um take advantage of this great a6=a.;
I regard it as a great asses the soil itself is a rich, black
bottom land.
L: Well, as far as the land is concerned, it would be used primarily
for raising the crops of money crops. tobacco, cotton,
and to some extent, corn, beans. We failed to diversify um, depen-
ding depended almost entirely on tobacco for the money crop.
But, things are changing just a little bit, there's no doubt
abo.t it, we had some rich soil here, the very best in the
world. High priced soil. ..
B: It's almost impossible to buj an acre of land in the Indian community
at least, isn't it?
L: It is, you have to have some real good connection to get an acre
of land where you would like to have it. where you would
like to have it. And then you have to pay an (CG4/n4 CdlL )
for it. You have to know the family who owns the land, you have
to be well liked in-stppoIt in order to find land where you would
like to have it, Now there's a little scrub land, there's some
%a
poor soil in the( .-a few spots i4 the county, but you can
but it. But the price then is sky high.
B: Do you think there's a tendency on the part of the Indians to um,
exclude whites from um, from buying land or is this (IC L ) -
or is this um, just a char4dteristic of all, of o'ir attitude
toward all groups including our own?
LUM 15A
Page 18
L: Well wit in our gLoup I mean this may be a little
far-fetched, this may not be the answer that you asked for,
but within our own group, with our within our Lumbee
group, we have some prejudice. Um, we were speaking a few
moments ago about middle class, upper class and lower class)
and there's a lots of people who are different individuals,
would not under circumstances, sell land to, because they
just simply feel like that that person is not quite as good
as they are. It's a bad'thing to say, but I think it's true
I I certainly believe it's true, In fact, I know it's true..
B: You know that prejudice is a three-way street in Robe son County.
L: That's true.
B:' And ur, ur, this land represents to the Indians ur, do you
t :ink, a kind of security, a kind of permanence, and do you
think this would be the main factor, although the other
factors are certainly there?
L: Yes I would agree with that. Um, if you if you
start talking with some stranger, say another Lumbee, he
cee be a stranger to you, it's possible, everybody is not
acquainted with everyone else, although you pretty well
widely know most everybody. You can figure out which section
they come from by their by their speech, quite frequently.
But just a few days ago, a man who I've been seeing a long
time, I can look at him and tell he was a Locklear, I could
listen to him speak and I knew he was from the Prospect
Community. So, I tried to strike conversation with him
LUM 15 A
Page 19
and teon h I uht out right here, one of the weaknesses,
one of our failings is the failure to introduce ourselves
properly .
This is side 2 of tape 12 continuing the interview with
Mr. Jilliam' C. Locklear and Mr. Locklear we were talking
um, about this gentleman you met a e prospects, u44
as I remember. Do you think yoPu-c pick up there. I think
we lodt some of our conversation the tape running out.
We were so e dSin what we were saying, I simply didn't
notice um, that it was near the end.
\ \A'On the other side of the tape, the last thing was pointing
out that one of our failures is l we, we just simply
do not introduce ourselves properly to each other or to
any ne else for that matter. Fhat this man told me
who his father was, called his father's name. He never
did get around to telling me his name. But I happened to slightly
know his father. But about the third or fourth question
he asked me was how much cleared land did I own.
B: Um huh. ..
L: Well, I own very little, just a little over half anr acre
with a idtLe house on it, a garden spot. But he was very,
very proud to point out to me that he had recently inherited
eight and thirty three hundredths acre-of land. ..
B: Um huh. ..
L: He was proud of his land. Um, land owning among the Lumbee
represents prestige, security, what have you, pride M
(t6JIR/ld'^ ). Well, everybody. most everybody
loves the land. They love to own some land anyhow. They'd
LUM 15A
Page 20
like some farm land whether they farm it or rather someone
else farms it. Well, it's a little mark of distinction to
own land. Our people would rather have land than businesses
evidently.
B: Um huh, well, um, .o you think also, this is just an extension
of what you just gaid about security, um, it.gives them a
feeling of permnnence, as being a permanent part of the community?
L: That is true.
B: Everybody wants to be a permanent part .
L: Everyone wants to be a permanent pillar.
B: And do yo, think it's always been this way?
L: Yes, I think so I think so. However, in recent years
more people have 4cquited land than was previously the case.
B: Um huh .
L: Because living standards, our living standards, has been raised
with the coming of industry into the county. We have some
industries where we have, where we might have three or four
members of one family working. Al3,. they farm and whem the
fall of the year comes, they don't owe anything on their farm.
They've taken that money they made doing public work and bought
the necessary things to use on the farm. And when they sell
their crops in the fall, that's cash in the bank or cash to
try to buy some more land, if they can find it. They don't-
want all the land, they just want what adjoins them..
B: Um um, I wanted to ask you um, moving just a little bit
away from tha( ka\1 L 7 )
but um, the tendency of the Lumbee Indian family to be large. .
to be very large. In your case I. .. um, I can understand
LUM 15A.
Page 21
you said eleven?
L: Twelve .
B: twelve in all. And um, maybe wq should infer here um, um,
what you told me about um, your mother, the doctor saying that
she would never have .
This is very important to our women, to bear children. his is
um, it seems to me, a mark of um, um, well this is a mark of
distinction. f i0 v tL
$: Do you think this is ^ ^ aS ?
L: Among our people? Yes. UM, you mentioned what I told
you about my mother. MY mother married when she was seventeen
years old. Um, she had been married approximately two years)
and she wanted children. She came ffom a large family she
wanted children. I don't know if she wanted the size family
that she eventually wvaid up with. I don't know if she
wanted that many, but she loved every one of them, of us and
um,the doctor informed my mother after she had been married
approximately two years that she could never bear a child.
"Toey proceeded my parents proceeded to adopt a girl.
And about two years laterI'm the oldest one, in the family, the
natural children, herxI came and it seemed to so to speak,
prime the pump because I have lots of brothers and sisters.
B: Urn, huhT 9'Ai# that's great.
L: But now, my mother having he natural mother of ten children,
I think about my brothers and sisters including myself the
size of ( )t )? famillye. None of us, none cf the .
none of the children will ever have that many in their family / .
never. Um, I'm the oldest, I have one child and .expecting
LUM 15 A
another. Keep in mind that I said that I'm almost fifty one
years old. Um, the boy next to me had five children, one girl,
on down the line, had one child, um, one brother had has um,
two children, another brother has five, ff sister sort of jumped
the trac&y she has seven, but that would be the largest
family of all we just simply cannot see how we can afford
so many children to be educated and we surely want to educate
our children.
B: On the farm this would have been a different factor, wouldn't
it? I mean, you would have had the the homegrown food,
you know that sort of thing had you been out on a farm.
L: Yes, but out on a farm things wouldbbe'uite different. You
raise your help, raise your labor, that's the way it used to be.
You raised your labor and, sad to say, so many of the parents
were not interested in sending their children to school .
simply did not care. They had to stay home to work.
B: Um huh.
L: But we're getting away from that, I'm proud to say. A family. .
most their o not want more children, than they can
educate properly.
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