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Title: Interview with E. D. "Doug" Bracey, Sr.
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Title: Interview with E. D. "Doug" Bracey, Sr.
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
 Subjects
Subject: Fisherfolk
University of North Florida
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Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
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Bibliographic ID: UF00006864
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'UNF Fisherfolk' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
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Resource Identifier: UNFFC 14

Table of Contents
    Copyright
        Copyright
    Interview
        Page 1
        Page 2
        Page 3
        Page 4
        Page 5
        Page 6
        Page 7
        Page 8
        Page 9
        Page 10
        Page 11
        Page 12
        Page 13
        Page 14
        Page 15
        Page 16
        Page 17
Full Text
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Sandra's House Tape 1


Doug- Some of the experiences we've had go back to the twenties and
thirties. Alot more truth than poetry in our experiences. It was about
1932 when I began really fishing. When I graduated from school out
here(Mayport) Then I beach fished and went on to nets.

Sandra- I grew up in this town here where the naval base is now. Our
whole town is six blocks long. It starts at the Coast Gaurd base and goes
to where the navy base is. This what they call cut down cars. They would
take pieces of Model T's and A's and put them together to use for beach
fishing. The cars would pull the homemade trailers, they still do make
homemade trailers for that matter. When beach fishing they would walk
those nets in a rope attached them by an old tire.

Doug-Those ropes would be about 10-1 1 hundred feet long and there was
for men on a crew. There would be two standing pn shore holding the nets
and then the ones in boat would go around and make the cirlce. Then we
would pull it in by hand. Now they hook to their trucks and drive them in.
Those were gill nets and they have been stopped altogether.

Sandra-Here is a picture of the old bogey boat fleet. They were load with
fish for making fertilizer dowr at the plant. This is loaded to the gill, so
full of fish you could lean your hand over and slap water into the boat. Boy
it would stink around here when those plants started processing those
fish.
Doug-They would first get the oil out the fish and what was left they
made into fertilizer.

Pete-They boats transported the fish.

Doug- They went out and caught them, and shipped them.......
..Skipped grocery talk...
Us boys would go down to the docks to the boat for food, because it was
hard times, we made out better down here than other places. Because we
shared with each other, who ever got the first big catch of mullet. Shared
with over seem need it. We used to wade down where the naval base is
now in chest deep water and there oyste bars and we would get oysters,
gig flounders, get shrimp. The were the best oysters in the world, the had



L ________________________________________________________









all that fresh salt water from the ocean thatwould give a great taste.
Sandra-This is a picture of a four masted sail boat now these were before
my time they were used to ship lumber around.
Then the US Core of Engineers came right around the depression to dredge
up the river here. So the send in ships because Jacksonville became a
large port for some large ships........
Are you aware of the some the history in Mayport. Well it was called
Hazerd(spelling??) then when my grandmother came in 1915 it was called
Cocina, she gave Doug his first job bussing tables, Back then and the train
backed in to East Mayport It was Florida East Coast Railroad, it would
back because there was no turn around. It would haul out lumber and
whatever. The train was gone by the time I was a little girl. We had three
and a half acers of land and when the navy came and bought our land they
gave my parents $12,000 for three acers of land and a two storey house.
......When these guys came along they started commercial fishing by beach
fishing, and then shrimping became popular when I was little girl, about
1950's.
Doug- Actually before that it was big, but the boats were much smaller.
The 50's is when the big boats came along.

Pete-When you went out and fished did you stay here Jacksonville or go
else where?

Doug- Up and down the coast. To about Fort Pierce was as far as we would
go. In the beginning all the bottom was rocks. The payoff was down at
Cape Canaveral. That was just a cove back then, and if the weather got
bad most of the boats that went down there had to about forty or fifty
feet long. And when I first got here there was only one boat that could
make to the Cape because you need ice and enough food for the crew. But
that one boat would go for 4-5 day trip and load the tables to the top full
of shrimp. When I was kid I would get paid a penny a pound heading
shrimp. Someplaces paid fifteen cents a bucket, and after school that is
what would do for money.









SAM: Some tricks we did when we shrimped was like the Texas Drop and
some other but, you would'nt know what they meant.

Borstelmann: Well try to explain what the Texas Drop was.

Sam: A particular chain drags in front of the net, and what it does is that
its a light weight that drags against the ground that bumps the shrimp so
that they fall into the net. Well you can set the chain farther ahead or
back from the depending on the species of shrimp you are trying to catch.
The brown shrimp are pretty seditary so would set it farther back than
you would set it for the white shrimp that would swim around more. Use
the Texas Drop in the Gulf because of all the mud and you wanted to get
farther down the floor because the shrimp burry down when they get
disturbed. There are 100 of things like that, that are just small technical
adjustments that you won't understand because you don't know what it is
like.

Doug: Well Sam's Dad would depending on what kind of ground that he was
dragging on, he could set the chain so that the net would dig deeper like he
was talking about in the mud.

Borstelmann: How about in net fishing, what kinds of tricks did you use?

Sam: It was'nt so much tricks as it was different methods, such as
fishing on the low water or the high waters. The different net shallow
and deep. Some people like having heavy leads in their nets because that
they weight they liked to throw. But there are so many because the large
variety of areas that we fish and the many types of fish to catch.
Back then there was'nt the electronics that there is today. I can take any
idiot and give him my loran and tracker and he would catch shrimp, fish,
whatever. That is the biggest problem that has ever come to shrimping
industry is the damn loran.

Doug: Sam came along a much younger time than I did at the time he
learned the technical equipment, he knows this because he had to use it. i
now would know a thing on a modern day boat because I did'nt need any of
that.

Sam: The modern major shrimping vessels have A/C, stove and
microwaves. We used to back with my Dad, take hollow leads filled with









soap and drop them to the bottom and see what type of ground came back
in the center. This showed us what type of bottom we had.

Joe: I rember Sam's Dad one time was about four hours off shore, and the
day before he had dropped a boey out in the water so that he could go
snapper fishing. Now he did not have any electronic equipment. He basicly
ran by the seat of his pants. He ran "Dead Reckinon" (that is what they
called it back then) When he got out there he was with in 10 feet of the
boey.

Borstelmann: So growing up you were the oldest. Did you participate in
fishing as much as your brothers?

Sandra: Yes, I was terrible tomboy










Doug: About a week. But when they started going out to Campeche, we
would be gone forty to fiftey days. That is when they had the big boats.

William: They would ice up and go to Campeche and fish for seven or eight
days and who ever was coming home they would drop shrimp over to them
and if they had extra ice or what ever they give it to them. They traded
around to keep things running better.

Borstelmann: How much were the boats, or did just build them?
Doug: Then they were 30 thousand dollars, they were about sixty-footers.
Now they are about 250-500 thousand dollars.

Guy: Now a days, it cost these people al lot of money to even get into the
business, money spent on the rigs, and gas and everything. And the federal
government is running them out business, and the Net ban law, soon we
will all be eating imports from South America, Latin America, and Tawian.

SAM: Over the past 25 years they have passed 210 laws just locally. Which
as hurt us greatly because the laws were not made to help perserve.

Doug: If they would have set the proper laws some time ago we could still
be fishing and the environment would not be as bad as it is now, but I got
out of it because it got to be so touch and go you would make $20 one week
and $500 the next.

Borstelmann: Did you guys have like tricks of the trade?

Doug: Another thing is the sea turtles. The people on the beach have been
blaming the fisherman for destroying the sea turtles. Now I can tell you
that the fisherman never hurt the sea turtles. I used to go up and down on
these shrimp boats as far as they used to go and I never seen a dead sea
turtle come up on the boat and we would drag for an hour and a half and
when we would pick up if there was one in the net you would just pick him
up and throw him over board and he would swim off.

Williams: In the 20 some years I shrimped I might have thrown three dead
turtles over board. But we never killed any turtles, if they were'nt moving
we would shake him up and down in the water for a bit, then his flippers
* would start moving and of he would go.









Sanra's House Continued Part II


Doug: The summer time came and there was no shrimp, so it was
aunrelighable business.

Borstelmann: What were the different seasons? Summer was for fishing
and spring was shrimping?

Doug: There was'nt much fishing in the summer except for the snapper
banks off shore.
Borstelmann: How far off was that at?

Doug: Oh, about 16-18 fathoms, it would take about two-hours.

Borstelmann: How much would you get for snapper?

Doug: About 3-4 cents a pound, it was pretty cheap.

Mr Williams: I remember working all night on the dreg all night for 8 cents
a pound.

Doug: We would work so much with fish, no matter how much you scrubbed
you would still have that sent,.and when you went out on Saturdays to
dance with the girls as soon as you started to perspire, the would scatter.

Borstelmann: Did you or anybody dig oysters for a living?

Doug: Yeah some people would sell them, There was lady that had a tent on
the river bank that had a boy and agirl and raised them on sell oysters.
Her whole life, I think she even built a house eventually, but she was the
one that actually built it her self.

Borstelmann: Do you remember the best year you had?

Doug: Not really; I guess when these bigger boats would come out and you
could stay longer and get a better price for your fish. That was in the
Forties or Fifteys.

Borstelmann: How long did you stay out at a time?



??









Sanra's House Continued Part II


Doug: The summer time came and there was no shrimp, so it was a unreliable
business.

Borstelmann: What were the different seasons? Summer was for fishing and spring
was shrimping?

Doug: There wasn't much fishing in the summer except for the snapper banks off
shore.
Borstelmann: How far off was that at?

Doug: Oh, about 16-18 fathoms, it would take about two-hours.

Borstelmann: How much would you get for snapper?

Doug: About 3-4 cents a pound, it was pretty cheap.

Mr Williams: I remember working all night on the dreg all night for 8 cents a pound.

Doug: We would work so much with fish, no matter how much you scrubbed you
would still have that sent, and when you went out on Saturdays to dance with the girls
as soon as you started to perspire, the would scatter.

Borstelmann: Did you or anybody dig oysters for a living?

Doug: Yeah some people would sell them, There was lady that had a tent on the river
bank that had a boy and a girl and raised them on sell oysters. Her whole life, I think
she even built a house eventually, but she was the one that actually built it her self.

Borstelmann: Do you remember the best year you had?

Doug: Not really, I guess when these bigger boats would come out and you could stay
longer and get a better price for your fish. That was in the Forties or Fiftey's.

Borstelmann: How long did you stay out at a time?

Doug: About a week. But when they started going out to Campeche, we would be
gone forty to fifty days. That is when they had the big boats.

William: They would ice up and go to Campeche and fish for seven or eight days and
who ever was coming home they would drop shrimp over to them and if they had extra
ice or what ever they give it to them. They traded around to keep things running better.

*) Borstelmann: How much were the boats, or did just build them?



U









Doug: Then they were 30 thousand dollars, they were about sixty-footers. Now they
are about 250-500 thousand dollars.

Guy: Now a days, it cost these people a lot of money to even get into the business,
money spent on the rigs, and gas and everything. And the federal government is
running them out business, and the Net ban law, soon we will all be eating imports
from South America, Latin America, and Taiwan.

SAM: Over the past 25 years they have passed 210 laws just locally. Which as hurt us
greatly because the laws were not made to help preserve.

Doug: If they would have set the proper laws some time ago we could still be fishing
and the environment would not be as bad as it is now, but I got out of it because it got
to be so touch and go you would make $20 one week and $500 the next.

Borstelmann: Did you guys have like tricks of the trade?

Doug: Another thing is the sea turtles. The people on the beach have been blaming
the fisherman for destroying the sea turtles. Now I can tell you that the fisherman
never hurt the sea turtles. I used to go up and down on these shrimp boats as far as
they used to go and I never seen a dead sea turtle come up on the boat and we would
drag for an hour and a half and when we would pick up if there was one in the net you
would just pick him up and throw him over board and he would swim off.

Williams: In the 20 some years I shrimped I might have thrown three dead turtles over
board. But we never killed any turtles, if they weren't moving we would shake him up
and down in the water for a bit, then.his flippers would start moving and of he would
go.
SAM: Some tricks we did when we shrimped was like the Texas Drop and some other
but, you wouldn't know what they meant.

Borstelmann: Well try to explain what the Texas Drop was.

Sam: A particular chain drags in front of the net, and what it does is that its a light
weight that drags against the ground that bumps the shrimp so that they fall into the
net. Well you can set the chain farther ahead or back from the depending on the
species of shrimp you are trying to catch. The brown shrimp are pretty sedentary so
would set it farther back than you would set it for the white shrimp that would swim
around more. Use the Texas Drop in the Gulf because of all the mud and you wanted
to get farther down the floor because the shrimp bury down when they get disturbed.
There are 100 of things like that, that are just small technical adjustments that you
won't understand because you don't know what it is like.

Doug: Well Sam's Dad would depending on what kind of ground that he was dragging
on, he could set the chain so that the net would dig deeper like he was talking about in
the mud.

^4










Borstelmann: How about in net fishing, what kinds of tricks did you use?

Sam: It wasn't so much tricks as it was different methods, such as fishing on the low
water or the high waters. The different net shallow and deep. Some people like
having heavy leads in their nets because that they weight they liked to throw. But
there are so many because the large variety of areas that we fish and the many types
of fish to catch.
Back then there wasn't the electronics that there is today. I can take any idiot and give
him my loran and tracker and he would catch shrimp, fish, whatever. That is the
biggest problem that has ever come to shrimping industry is the damn loran.

Doug: Sam came along a much younger time than I did at the time he learned the
technical equipment, he knows this because he had to use it. i now would know a
thing on a modern day boat because I didn't need any of that.

Sam: The modern major shrimping vessels have A/C, stove and microwaves. We used
to back with my Dad, take hollow leads filled with soap and drop them to the bottom
and see what type of ground came back in the center. This showed us what type of
bottom we had.

Joe: I remember Sam's Dad one time was about four hours off shore, and the day
before he had dropped a buoy out in the water so that he could go snapper fishing.
Now he did not have any electronic equipment. He basically ran by the seat of his
pants. He ran "Dead Reckinon" (that is what they called it back then) When he got out
there he was with in 10 feet of the buoy.

Borstelmann: So growing up you were the oldest. Did you participate in fishing as
much as your brothers?

Sandra: Yes, I was terrible tomboy.

Borstelmann: Did you ever go out on the boats with them?

Sandra: All the time, I remember one time I was helping hold the nets on shore for
Dad when I fell and got all rolled up in it. I was all right but
Dad got my tail just the same.

Borstelmann: How old were you?

Sandra: About 11 at the time, but I helped at all ages. I am still involved when I can. I
am to old to go the boats now, but I love them. I still to get sea sick to this day.





*~











Doug : Most of these fishermen are Minorkans, not to many Greeks or others here
in Mayport.

Stacey: Did you have problems with sharks?

Bill: Yeah, all the time. Back in the old days we would just poke at them with the
the long pole until they left. They usually ate fish right through our nets. They did
most of the attacks during the summer over he on our coast.

Tape 2 side 2

Sandra: This community here in Mayport as produced two school principles,
numerous teachers, many authors, two doctors that I can think of, many people
own their own business whether it be restaurants or their fishing businesses, the
president of the Standard Oil Company, Mr. Phillips is a lawyer downtown who
make about $450,000, all from this community because of self-discipline, cooperation
and sharing qualities all learned by growing up together here in Mayport.

Bill: We would have our fights on Fridays and go out fishing on Saturday together.

Doug: I don't think any of us have any regrets, we have had a hard life but I
wouldn't change any thing.

Joe: The only thing that happened is that you all got ugly!

Sandra: Some of these fishermen had some of the strangest pets, old Chicamo had a
monkey named Bosco he also rode a mule most of time. There was a lot of
monkeys here in Mayport for awhile.

Doug: We all hated that monkey. It would swing on the lines and the guys would
hate having the monkey swinging and yelling above them. Finally onetime when
he got swinging just far enough over the edge of the boat the cut the rope on him
and that was the end of that monkey.
-Domache(?) it is a type of crab that would be all over the beach at East Mayport.
They would catch them during cook out, they tasted just like clams. They were not
as chewy, but they were good. They made some great soup, kind of like clam
chowder, hey tasted just like clams.









Interview at Sandra's House d 7


So that a good fishing area then? Stacey

Oh, you could catch some fish out there. I'm, not going to tell you on this tape the
end result of it cause I'm not going to let you know! Cause he'll write you a check.
Now he loves --------. but most of mine is bait fishing, some time if you want to
come out fishing I'll show you a few a little tricks of the trade. -Joe

I've only fished a coupe of times. Pete

A Couple of times? how old you son? -Joe

18 Years old.- Pete

18, when I was 18 1 had been around ----- Joe

I've only once myself, one time that was it. -Stacey

You live in Jacksonville? There's no reason you shouldn't go here. See that's the
base right here, --- docking. See this bank right here in there? This bank right in
here is Hollow Creek. Now there were a couple of boats started in there
fish right in there

he man handled me. We'd go dragging the bait with him and he'd --- right out of
hand. He was buzzing that star grass. -Joe
021

000
So their was another one the same size, called the Cathrotine, and I was one the
Arizona and it come right through to through the street to the lighthouse ----- we
broke the tow line a couple of time that night but then the engine wasn't running
and we come up around their and the water was up their about knee deep, ----- but
we made it in. Sammy knew what was the matter with the engine but we didn't
have any light. So when day light come, we made it all the way from Daytona to
St. Augustine, so their were a couple of boats started that in and their was a
bottom line in St Augustine and you could see just about daylight and he ran that
boat and I had some kill on that boat and it come back. Sam wasn't going to let it
get away. And I cried all the way and I missed him. Caught a bunch of trout. -Joe









Do you just keep it for yourself? -Stacey
I give um away, my Wife's friends like fish so I give um to them. I'm retired, I
spent ten years on a merchant ship.
- Bill
012

034
What are the different seasons for fishing?, Like when's shrimp
season? -Stacey

Seasons, shrimping really turns on, I said in about June, it starts showing. August
is a big month, Sept. and Oct. Well another time the shrimp show up here then go
south. I'd say Sept. and the last of October wouldn't be bad really, they have a lot
of rain. ----------------. Hey Sam what was the year that -B----- caught so many
shrimp, what was that year?- Joe

He caught so many back then. Sam

The eleven years I fished with him we caught them every year. Bill

What years, now you can't remember the years, can you. Joe

It was back in the fifties, 55 or 56 Bill

Late fifties or early sixties. Sam

57 of 58,- Bill

We fished up to Naussau one time and fished for three days and we come in with
almost unloaded 34 boxes. ---said that we were going to go get some groceries
tomorrow. Me an Millard was fishing. Millard says -------- ------- Bill
056

038

Well their was another time when you daddy was down on the beach and he was
down their by burs side ----------- the rig rolled clean up to the sand hill ---------
----- an it was...- (Doug or Bill)

054





9Y









We went out their one time and that was on the Clementina and that was the only
one back then that came down here. But I was fishing on it and went out in the old
smack daddy.
Well we broke a net, so we put the new net on and went out
------- we had about the --- and we put it together just like that. That's pretty close
to right. Doug.
065

056
When is mullet season?- Stacey
Mullet now, (November) there's black mullet now and the end of the month them
mullet----- I've seen a fellow make one cast from a cast net last year and he
couldn't get it in his
boat, I'd say he had of (900) pounds of fish in one cast, he couldn't get it in the boat
he had to drag it to shore. I had to set foot on that net that made two hundred
pounds. Big old mullet, four rows. That was in last November. Joe

So then November is the good season? -Stacey

That and I would say the first of September.
066

066
The year that Teaty lost the br--- hacker, he come on the ------------ Shorty
Florest was running the Clancy Dawn and he tore his net up and Teaty give him
the best net we had one the boat. Shorty went to Key West with our good net.
Every morning Teaty would mend on the net until good
daylight and then he would say go on and run the boat on out and when we get out
there I'll have her all mended up. The first day we went out there we went up there
in the cold. And Teaty said when we get to the lighthouse over there by the missile
base, when you get it over there by the building of some kind, we are gonna find---
----------- we didn't get the deck clean until 1:00 in the afternoon. We had 54
baskets of shrimp we didn't get the deck cleaned off the first time until some time
in the afternoon. Teaty got in two twizzle sticks and he go up there and run a stick
in that dar thing and he'd pull up and he'd catch another hand full of their
whiskers and pick it up and dump it in the basket and about four dumps he'd have a
basket full. Boy I ain't never seen that many ----- in my life. Bill

So what other kinds of fish are up here? There's mullet, shrimp, what else is
there?- Stacey





'7









090

Just Shrimp, we got mullet and all with gill nets its hard

You get one loaded like that then you get one that down from the ----- that's
another -------- and he'd been out there fooling with that -----

Man, I 've hated those damn jet skies, they mess up the water and run all over there
and scare the fish. -Doug

104

Sandra I got a colored picture of your momma and daddy both dress up- Bill

119
"Joe is talking about going to the bars"
124
"Joe, Sandra, Doug, and William, begin talking about old girl friends and
making jokes about each of them"
140
I had a little old house there, that was a good piece of property. If it rained for
weeks, water wouldn't stand on it, go down about two or three feet and it was
cocina. The Navy wanted it and the Navy got it. -Bill
146

146
"Sandra's talking about some pictures. Sam is telling about the ages of his
children"

146
He was probably a billionaire- Sandra

Frozen Foods, Singleton Foods- Doug

He's from here?- Pete

Yea, he and my dad, that's him and my dad in this picture

What's his name again?- Pete

* Woody Singleton- Doug




l/00









What's the name of his company, is it still around?- Pete

Singleton Foods- Joe

This is him with his Rolls Royce towing his row boat. -Sandra

Did you guys ever work for him? -Pete

Oh Yea, Everyone around here has worked for him.
168

165
"Sam is re-telling the dredge boat- mullet story.
171

175
Yea, we would be in the old school house over there and someone would hollar,
"Mullet on the Beach" everyone e would run out the school house. Sandra

188
This is a Jew Fish, this is when you put a boat up on dry dock. -Sandra
Did you guys catch a lot of these?- Pete

210
This lighthouse here went out and they had to light it. When I started sea------------


217
This is a picture of my mother

Was she just as much as a fisherman as you guts, or no? Was your
mother into fishing as much as you were?- Pete

My father was, big time, and we both were in a way. She'd be out there on a boat,
pulling the fish on board. Sandra

So she did it a lot?- Pete

She could fish too, she went all over with my dad.- Sandra






10i









I mean did women have anything imparticular that they took care of
or did something that men didn't do, or did it not matter?- Pete

Only a few women went into the fishing business. Only one or
two. Sister Cathrine got into the crabbing business and fishing business. Few
women did the men's jobs. Women went out on pleasure for a week or two at a
time on trips. -Sandra

They used to have a pogey dock right up there by Gates Bar by the entrance of the
Navy Base. They would take on a morning when everything is dead still and five
of those boats would make a perch at the same time. Now they pump them up
They drag them right up, but they used to they would have two push boats and
have about twelve colored people in a boat and them had a tom weight that went
down and they would pull them to get them to the top of the water to where you
could put a bail net in there to bail them out. And you take on a good morning
when everything is nice and quite and still and all of them colored people start
singing while they're pulling Nate would lead them and all, they all in unison the
sound would make your skin crawl. I loved to hear them sing when they were
pursing the net up that way. -Bill

Do you remember any of the little songs?- Stacey

No, just old chanties.- Bill

This is a monument, The Fort Caroline when it was out there where the base is
when we lived out there. Jean Rebo, French captain came up the river in the
month of May and he landed here and that was in 1562. When he landed here he
didn't know that Spain had already claimed Florida, Ponce de
Leon had already claimed it for Spain, so when they found out St. Johns River was
not named, the Spain's named it after
St John the Baptist, but Captain Jean Rebo named it ----- May because he landed
here in May. He went up to Caroline and built the Fort up there and the Spaniards
chased him up there and they went in there and it was up to a ten mesendent. And
the ten Mesendent is all the land this side of St. Augustine means the place of the
start and it went back and forth. Sandra

281
This here is a net, see they got the floats on the top of the net and they got what
they call a laely line. Its a set
of rings and they line loops right around the net. Then the









long loop opens up when your dragging so that the net opens up or when you pull
along side it, it pulls tight around those rings and the bag is still hanging down in
the water and you got trip snaps on the bag so when you dump, if you got an oyster
in there you just trip it and ------. -Bill

Are those illegal nets now? -Stacey

I don't know whether they are not. This net is probably isn't legal. Think the legal
size is 60 and this these are 75. -Bill
307

308
"Talking about pictures of themselves and a teacher named old man
Wilson" "Aunt Jane"

375
"Bill Williams is leaving soon" Stacey is asking about a follow up
interview with Bill"

400
Unclear "Talking about old teachers"

435
Let me say something before I forget it with out any interruptions.

END OF SIDE ONE

















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