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Title: Interview with Sam Floyd
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Title: Interview with Sam Floyd
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Language: English
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Subject: Fisherfolk
University of North Florida
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Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
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Bibliographic ID: UF00006861
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'UNF Fisherfolk' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
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Resource Identifier: UNFFC 11

Table of Contents
    Copyright
        Copyright
    Interview
        Page 1
        Page 2
        Page 3
        Page 4
        Page 5
        Page 6
        Page 7
        Page 8
        Page 9
        Page 10
        Page 11
        Page 12
        Page 13
        Page 14
        Page 15
        Page 16
        Page 17
        Page 18
        Page 19
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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida.






Interview with Sam Flyod ff Q
Interviewees Lindsay Fatta
and Peter Borstlemann


010 Do you think think---------

You use to build them out of wood, this here is fiber glass, but underneath the
fiberglass is wood, but I use a pine. or some other woods like this in Canada made
out of ash is what we always made our boards out of cause ash has some good
flexibility and real good strength. But they started turning their there thing so dag
gome small in the net that we'd pop them coming through the surf because when a
boat runs on the wave like a surf board, You have to hold it with the oars to keep
the boat from flipping. A twelve foot sedaby is not from Canada is 462 bucks and
that was three years ago, I guess they are around the same. You just can't hardly
get um', so I started building them out of fiber glass. I would get a piece of fiber
glass top and I don't know where they come from. My brothers come back with
four or five pieces and I made a bunch of oars out of them. And I cut the blade out
and drive it up into the -stock--- and put the fiber glass'over it. They turn out to be
good oars. I lost one in the river last year, my favorite one, -----, And I thought
they would float, and i had thrown one in the water and it float, The one I didn't
throw in water ---. And I usually put a brown stock up in it so that if something
happens and you have to let go of the oar to grab something in the boat or
sonrebody falls out or something. It will run out, hit the stop and stop

026 ------ I'm real funny about stuff like that 028

Ivy- So what's the stop, this or this right down here?

This is the stop here and that's the blade. This -- here hasn't been s--pped in over
twenty years. I was looking for them the other day and found the damn thing that
amazing. I got so much junk that ---------------. ---------- about an inch an a half
of insulation in between so that if I catch anything the cast net I don't get in trouble
with the local marine patrol. Now I've got the ice in it today because were not
really fishing today were're just going to be playing around the kids just want to
roe around. My kids they don't really know how to roe a boat, cause I just don't
bring them around the business that much. They love to play around it so I rebuilt
this thing and I said ok will just take this thing over an play around. I don't
have but three life preservers so only three people can go at a time
042-050
Eleven footer



31










eleven?
051-
actually the less twist
058-
they use to go to K-mart
064
-sew it all together. that net right now probably a 150---.
A lot of the guys are starting to build um now for this season so I told um the other
day that I'd (give him) fifty-five buck if he sew me one

What season are you in? -Pete

Mullet season ----- mullet black mullet. You see, this time of year being so ---- all
the time there is nothing else for us to feed. This is all we can use --------. You
know one day out of a couple of weeks you might make 3 or 4 hundred dollars if
you get on the right school of fish, but the rest of the time you aren't going to make
it if you average that out--. I'll always be out here a certain amount of days a year
just because I love to do it won't be for money although it won't be for money, I
realize that the chances are the money is not going to be there when we cast, plus
they are restricting s to two nets, now if they let me have six or eight nets, then I'd
put buoys on the nets on the hand line and then I could throw six net before I pick
that one up. And I'd go to a 4 inch mesh net so the fish would gill--- we weren't
allowed to do that and you can get a run of fish that's got 20-30 thousand pounds to
the school and I could probably catch with 6 nets, I could catch probably catch 7-8
hundred pounds of fish. And ---- run about two dollars a pound. So you could
prosper say you got 700 pounds of fish, $1400. And if you don't catch anything for
the rest of the week at least you made your week.

How much did you catch with the other kind of net?- Lindsay

It wasn't a lot believe it or not----- because once the
Asian market opened up for their eggs, the price went up to a dollar and a half a
pound during the height of the season.
Like now its about 75 to a dollar a pound for what we call crap mullet. They don't
have a lot of (ROE) in um yet and before the law it was a quarter a pound, so its
jumped three ---. Now we don't really know what the ROE mullet is going to do
because we aren't the only producers of ROE mullet, you got Louisiana,
Mississippi, and Carolina. there are still able to use the gill nets. If I were to run
say a 5 thousand pound school of fish with my gill net I would probably get 1500
to 2000 Ibs. There was a couple articles in the newspaper in the last week, I don't



3'









know if you even pay attention to the newspaper but on the editorial page people
write in and bitch about what ever they want to complain about and a different
times there was 2 articles and they were by, I don't know just people, not
fishermen, they were really so far off base with their ideas and what they really
thought was happening that it was just unbelievable. One of them stated that the
fish species had
been decimated by gill nets, and that's just not true, the gill net is very specific in
what they catch. You let all the juveniles go, you let all the big ones go. Sure your
taking from the species, there is no doubt about it, its just like farming, but your
not catching the juveniles so they grow and your not catching the biggest egg
layers so that they can grow. Where as if I take my fourteen hundred foot seine
and run it out there and bring it out and catch everything that's in that circle, then
you want the two and a half inch mesh so that all the juveniles can go through it,
but you do catch a larger range of size with this net so the gill net actually was
better than the seine and for years wanted to outlaw the gill nets and let us use the
seine. And then the really crazy thing was a few years ago they went back to where
you had to have a two inch mesh size or less in -------. which catches more of the
juveniles, that doesn't make any since at all. You see the people that was making
the laws they don't know anything about the business and in other words you got
some banker, and some lawyer, and you know most of them ------ making laws on
something that they don't understand at all. Unfortunately, it seems like the people
that makes laws now days are the ones that don't understand what they are making
the laws about, either that or they just don't care, one or the other, they are too
busy with their own little special interests and other thing comes up CORN they
just say, well I have no interest in this so what ever my partner over there wants to
do I '11 vote the way he does. Which I sure don't think is right, I think every issue
that goes up before any type of legislature or even a local councilman and stuff.
Its important to legislation it may not be near you but it is to somebody.
Somebody that's either going to injured by it or suffer for it or be glad about it.
100-3

December the 23 ---------- I've spent 18-20 hours a day on the river or use to up
until this year. This is going to be the first year it is going to be really strange.
they started redoing these jetties last year, and I raised hell about it. They got the
bull dozers ----------- and its not going to be before long that this is going to be
trash too.
There's a ----- that runs out, I don't know how far you've been out

The opposite end- Pete






SI









------I tried to lease it -------- on There's a law that says, we can't have any
inhabitants ------ top of our air strip, which the main reserve strip comes right off
of the end here. -------- Cause I wanted to make like a little park out of it, camping
areas and stuff------- Twenty years ago, there said there was no way you could
ever, we could never lease that property to anyone, because of the air strip, the city
leased it for one dollar a year for a thirty years about three years ago. I don't know
how, it just worked out that way and they were going to make a park out of it, as
far as I'm concerned, that's great, as long as the public can enjoy it -------. but then
they started talking about having that Kingbridge Tournament. Which I have no
objections to the people in the kingsgbridge town but i do have objections to
changing the way this place is. Kingsbridge town parks like 8 or 9 thousand cars,
and where would you park 8 or 9 thousand cars- you would have to flatten this
whole area and make it one large parking lot. So they come out here and fix the
road which was good, and they built it up. then they brought out about 400 yards
of sand which was like two mountains down there by that green truck. And they
took a bull dozer and they went right down the side of the marsh all the way down
to the end and back around the corer. So I called them up to find out what was
going on when they started up, and they said they were trying to stabilize it. That
side on the river side has always needed stabilizing because the jetty rocks have
never been repaired, they just been allowed to sit there for the last 45- 50 years
and gradually --(sinks)-- as erosion occurs. Like I told them, if you want to repair
the jetty rocks bring in some more granite and stabilize that, I'll even ------------
back behind the jetty rocks, but don't take a damn dozer and go down the back side
which was stabilized already, the salt marshes haven't stabilized, all the vegetation
hasn't stabilized. So what they said they were gonna do was put an eighteen inch
square concrete I guess the concrete telephone that you see along the highways.

Pete said something

83 of them all the way around so they can raise it 18 inches, I told them I don't
think so. So I called a bunch of people, the audobon society, sea air club and
talked to city engineers and all that stuff. The next thing I know the dozers left,
they were insistent that they weren't going to do any damages, and I heard
something about --(air shows)-- I don't know if its even true or not. When they
started the Kingbridge town down they were going to build a huge restaurant down
their on the corer. Now when is this crap going to end? this is a beautiful little
spot for people that don't have a lot of money, can bring their kids down here,
spend the day, picnic lunch, fish off the rocks, or cut their feet all up on the ------
they started to have a great time, and I'd hate to see it all change. I've been coming
out here ever since I was just a little kid. I love this spot, I spent, oh God, I've









probably spent two thirds of my life on this river either out on the water or around
it. I know it like the back of my hand.

Pete--------------fish back then?? everybody just hung out?
Did everybody fish you say?

Pete- I mean was this like people just go out to fish commercially or
they just came here to relax.

Recreational you mean. We use to drive all the way down on the boats the docks
were sown on the end. When they took it over to the park the put a fence up. they
didn't want people going down to the ----------- it was destroying the wetlands. I
agree if a ---------drives up, and the truck drives off the road, --------. But I'm not
so sure that putting a fence across it and not letting anybody in. ------- go around
the fence anyway. ----they have done, I don't know if you saw that or not -----------
----- of course you'll get a ticket if you get caught, but that's not the idea. The idea
is to preserve it, in fact, it is better to put a barricade on both sides of the road all
the way down so that you really can't turn off the road. --------------- --------------
----- Because you would be surprised, like today's a.Stinday and its kinda a change
in weather, there still are a lot of people out there, probably about 50 people or so,
usually there are 150 or so. On real nice days god its just swamped out here. Its
just something I hate to see changed, and I don't see any reason to allow it to be
changed. If they want to have the Kingsbridge Tournament this summer with all
the parking, let them have it ------------------, why would they destroy
something else just to have a damn Fish Tournament. There's questions to start
with, the Kingfish is on the endangered species list, no I'm sorry the restricted
species list. I guess about 6 or 7 years ago, lets try to get a handle on whats
commercial fishing and whats regulation fishing. The legislature and the fishermen
and some of the recreational fishermen decided that what we would do is that we
would tell everybody that sells seafood in the state of Florida had to have a S.P.L.
(card) that's a salt water product license that's what that is. It cost you a hundred
bucks, actually the salt water product license cost we a hundred bucks for each one
I got and I got three of them. there has always been a problem with defining the
commercial fisherman over the recreational fisherman, it may sound silly to you
but say if you came out here and set 15 traps, you could take them to a market
somewhere and wholesale prices lets say $.75, $1.00 or $1.25 a pound then you
could make enough bucks to pay for your boat and buy your beer for they day, you
know and -----------. Well the only problem with that is you get mixed up with the
commercial and the recreational so bad that you couldn't define who was who.
There was another problem we had was there were a lot of gill nets and seines and
stuff owned by recreational fisherman and they were giving us a bad name because




I3









not knowing anything about the business, and they were doing things that were ----

that made us look terrible, and it still --- like that. So we come up with this thing I
think that no recreational fisherman ---(got on a) ---commercial fisherman. But
then they come up with the restricted species which they would say, ok we are
going to decide which species may or may not be in trouble in the next couple of
years and we are gonna put them on the restricted species list. And that way until
we get more information on how to better manage the species, we'll at least have
them on an area that we can put guide limits and stuff on. So just about every fish
is off it now. But you can't get these unless you can prove that you make a certain
percent of your living from fishing. There's no recreational fisherman ------------
than our guy. Ok, now that the ---------, in order to carry a net in my boat, because
i can't legally fish with it, until I get outside of three miles. -------- they have a
federal net program which is this little thing ---right ----------and its a joke, it
really is. It just -------. this is what they call a salt water (pilots) licenses and you
have to have one of those to sail seafood in the state of Florida.

No way- Ivy or Lindsay?

When you sell the seafood to a whole sale house, they have to take down who you
are, how much fish you caught, what species of fish it was, what they paid you per
pound, where you caught the fish, type of net that you caught the fish with, (how
long it was and how deep it was), and how long it took you to catch these fish. All
that information is on computer in Tallahassee. Every fish I've caught in the last 6
years is on that computer. What seems worse is all Irs has to do if they want to
know what I turned in is push a button and their computer talks to the computer in
Tallahassee and they know how many------------------ program. I mean not that I
have every really ripped off the IRS, but there are times when I have a few
hundred bucks here and there that I haven't recorded.

This is the rest of my family, My wife Sandy,-------- she's like one of our but she's
really a neighbor's kid. And the other two aren't here, they are teenagers off doing
their own thing. One of them in college and the other one is 17.
They are busy people.

235-247 Unclear

They did it in increments, they did half a day, and they said that really doesn't
satisfy everybody so we're are going to take another half a day, then we're going to
take another whole day.
First it was the weekend, then it was Friday, and... -Sandy




??









We never felt like the year before last and fifty percent of last year, it seemed like
every full moon fell on a Friday. A full moon is when you usually get a ------ come
in and that's usually when a fish comes in.

Ivy said something about the -----?
A (northwestern) Up there in the mountains in the winter time. When the NW
comes the --------- --------------- So they come up, screw up and start
moving, well every damn Friday the ------- moon and the wind start blowing and
the start getting nasty and the fish would start moving together, and we would take
our boats out we had to get the fish off by noon or we would be arrested. I had
about 600 pounds of fish in my boat last year and I ---- canal this is the St Johns
River right at the end of these little jetties you can take a left turn and -----in the
Intercoastal. I saw them about a half a mile into the Intercoastal Canal The ------
was sitting there watching me catch the fish, and we have to be at the fish house by
noon, in order not to receive tickets, loose our fish or possibly go to jail. We it
was a quarter till 11 when I ran the fish. I ---- to the back of my boat and I started
around and I got into the River from the canal my steering wheel broke. Because
on a commercial boat, most of us don't have steering wheels. ??(Most have the
motor with the bar) But I had -----on mine with piece of hurricane --(bent stock)--
with a steering handle and some bolts through a piece metal that bolted it to the
front of the boat and it was really nasty. We were going about thirty miles a hour
and it had pretty bad chop and when I come around the end of the rock it got real
bad chop and my steering handle broke off and we were going in a circle out there.
Well Sergeant Brown, one of the.(marines there) was sitting on the end of the
jetties watching me in his truck. Because it was too nasty for him to get in the
coastal, he just comes down here ------. So I'm going around and around in a circle
out in the river just idling trying to see what I could do to get my steering fixed but
I couldn't get it fixed. Which means --------- and turn it into the wind, and I could
do it as long as I wasn't doing much more than that, but if I tried to increase speed,
I couldn't hold it, ----- I'm not going to be able to get through a river. Problem is
the way you come in a river with a ------------behind and load up right here which
is against the law also to do this.
Sandy said something
A -- -- its against the law to launch a boat from a car or some vehicle.
But not a recreational boat- Sandy
Oh yea, any boat.
Like Right now- Sandy
Oh yea, you won't go to jail, I'll just get a ticket, tickets don't bother me, I don't
like getting tickets but if
that what it takes them give me a ticket, I'm not going to argue with um.
Their expensive-- Sandy









Yea,------ $100 or $110 a piece. Anyway it took me about 45 minutes to idle all
the way back and they watched me whole time the Marine Patrol and ---------
And I get back here and I looked at my watch and it was about 3 or 4 minutes till
12 and I said oh Jesus. So I backed my truck down and pull it on the truck and I
take off. I got to the fish house 2 minutes after 12, he comes up there and they're
going to take my fish, they're going to confiscate all my net, give me two or three
different tickets and the end result the I went into the fish house and the owner of
the fish house come out and said that's crazy, I heard you on the radio, a lot of the
fishermen got the scanners, tell the people at the office you got to run the fish a t a
quarter of eleven but now you were gonna be late getting to the fish house. So
obliviously the man was not trying to break the law, if his steering wouldn't have
broke, he would have been at the fish house thirty minutes ahead of time. (I
admired him they didn't write me a ticket) but he wouldn't tale my fish, now I told
him, if you take my fish we're gonna go (round and round) -------fish -------- I've
waited all week long for 600 pounds of fish, they were just caught on Friday, you
know so it made my week, 600 pounds of fish and a dollar and a half pound, 900
bucks. So anyway, when he wrote the ticket out it said the illegal harvesting of fish
past the time of to harvest fish, time caught 12:26 pm. I told him I pulled up to the
fish house two minutes after 12. but now he got through harassing me for twenty
minutes but he's the one who --------. We went Round and around for a while.
He don't like me at all he respects me but he don't like me, because I fell the same
way I respect the badge he wears but as a person I have no respect for him at all.
He's retired army G.I. been on this river with us for, God I guess 12 or 14 years or
something like that. 50 or 60 ------ in the last five years. --- really stupid, I think
he-------- well actually night shift. ----------I don't know if that's it because he has a
twenty-six footer or 30 foot like cigarette boat with 2 twenty fives in it. (they slide
up and down this boat)

What's the status on the woman, actually your sister with the pictures?- Ivy

I put my boats next to her house rather than taking them back to my place because
the traffic is so bad and I don't have any tail lights, never had breaks on my
vehicles until 10 years ago. I just kinda of coasted or down shifted ---- drive. I
remember one time James Dean, a good friend of mine, wee grew up together in
the fishing business, we use to go all the way to St. Augustine with ( our boats and
seines) and just --- on the beach. We were coming back from St. Augustine and
me and James had ------- and we had about 8-9 hundred pounds of fish in the boat
and back then we just put them in the bottom of the boat. We were hauling them
up on the beach and we dumped the seine out and we dug a hole and bury them in
the sand and we go on and work our way down the beach making haul after haul.
* And when we got though we come dig them up when we got back and looked like









you floured them with the sand, the dry beach sand. You can't do that any more
because that's called contamination of the seafood you are selling for people to eat.
The truth of the matter is you can leave that fish in the sand for a day and a half in
that cool sand and it would be fine. But when you wash that slime off, do what we
call sliming the fish, which is washing the slime off the fish then the body
temperature raises dramatically.

Oh, so as long as you have the slime on it its all right? -Pete

Yea, when I was a kid my dad, we didn't have an option of weather we wanted to
go fishing. We he'd get up at one in the morning or eight at night and decided to
go seining, then all the kids went with him, and we'd seine from the south jetties to
St. Augustine or from the south jetties, South of Ponte Vedra and we get back to
the house at five or six o'clock in the morning.....

END OF SIDE ONE

There are just so many things that have changed over the years it crazy.

Let's get back to James Dean-Ivy

Oh, I'm sorry I side tracked. Anyway we were coming back from fishing and if we
had on brake that was good, the right front, and when you stopped you had to do
the Wheel like this because you kpew you were going to veer to the right because
you only had one brake. And of course back then traffic back then wasn't
anything like it is now days either. We come through they Mayport light where
the overpass is, there use to be a little car lot over there on the left and the light
changed on us. Well we had the boat with the fish and the truck, there was now
way to stop it. so James just (flipped) off the road over up into the car lot and he
hollared "Pick one!" and Harry said "Grey one!" and he hit that one. Found out it
was the only Mercedes Benz on the lot. It was an older on thank goodness, I don't
remember what it cost him. I can remember James coming by my house, I was in
college in 71 or 72, I was going to JU but I lived in Mayport, I had a little house I
rented up on a little hill. He come down to the house on day and said "you still got
that (Eddy Mash Mullet Net) and I said yea. He said come on we'll use your net
and my boat cause the mullet is thick down in Hannah Park., and I said Great so
we threw the net in his boat and took off, we drove like a bat out of hell to start
with. Come flying threw Mayport, we must of been going about 40 miles an hour
and the right wheel of the trailer went off the road and hit a ---- soft shoulder and
the only thing we kept the boat trailer tied to the truck was a jack hammer that just
went down through the hole and when he hit the hole with the tire the tongue went



Y3









down low and it shot the jack hammer straight up in the air. So the boat was
released from the truck, and I hollared "James the boats loose" and he said "Oh,
my God" and we looked around and saw it just in time to go through the bar and it
went through the side of the building. Crash! It almost killed one guy, I thought it
did. He had blood running out of his ears, his nose. He was sitting in an oak chair
and we had and an 4x4 tongue instead of a pipe tongue, he was sitting in the oak
chair, he was so drf my boat and I started around and I got into the River from the
canal my steering wheel broke. Because on a commercial boat, most of us don't
have steering wheels. ??(Most have the motor with the bar) But I had -----on
mine with piece of hurricane --(bent stock)-- with a steering handle and some
bolts through a piece metal that bolted it to the front of the boat and it was really
nasty. We were going about thirty miles a hour and it had pretty bad chop and
when I come around the end of the rock it got real bad chop and my steering
handle broke off and we were going in a circle out there. Well Sergeant Brown,
one of the (marines there) was sitting on the end of the jetties watching me in his
truck. Because it was too nasty for him to get in the coastal, he just comes down
here ------. So I'm going around and around in a circle out in the river just idling
trying to see what I could do to get my steering fixed but I couldn't get it fixed.
Which means --------- and turn it into the wind, and I could do it as long as I wasn't
doing much more than that, but if I tried to increase speed, I couldn't hold it, ----
I'm not going to be able to get through a river. Problem is the way you come in a
river with a ------------behind and load up right here which is against the law also
to do this.
Sandy said something
A -- -- its against the law to launch a boat from a car or some vehicle.
But not a recreational boat- Sandy
Oh yea, any boat.
Like Right now- Sandy
Oh yea, you won't go to jail, I'll just get a ticket, tickets don't bother me, I don't
like getting tickets but if
that what it takes them give me a ticket, I'm not going to argue with um.
Their expensive-- Sandy
Yea,------ $100 or $110 a piece. Anyway it took me about 45 minutes to idle all
the way back and they watched me whole time the Marine Patrol and ---------
And I get back here and I looked at my watch and it was about 3 or 4 minutes till
12 and I said oh Jesus. So I backed my truck down and pull it on the truck and I
take off. I got to the fish house 2 minutes after 12, he comes up there and they're
going to take my fish, they're going to confiscate all my net, give me two or three
different tickets and the end result the I went into the fish house and the owner of
the fish house come out and said that's crazy, I heard you on the radio, a lot of the
fishermen got the scanners, tell the people at the office you got to run the fish a t a



([J









quarter of eleven but now you were gonna be late getting to the fish house. So
obliviously the man was not trying to break the law, if his steering wouldn't have
broke, he would have been at the fish house thirty minutes ahead of time. (I
admired him they didn't write me a ticket) but he wouldn't tale my fish, now I told
him, if you take my fish we're gonna go (round and round) -------fish -------- I've
waited all week long for 600 pounds of fish, they were just caught on Friday, you
know so it made my week, 600 pounds of fish and a dollar and a half pound, 900
bucks. So anyway, when he wrote the ticket out it said the illegal harvesting of fish
past the time of to harvest fish, time caught 12:26 pm. I told him I pulled up to the
fish house two minutes after 12. but now he got through harassing me for twenty
minutes but he's the one who ----------. We went Round and around for a while.
He don't like me at all he respects me but he don't like me, because I fell the same
way I respect the badge he wears but as a person I have no respect for him at all.
He's retired army G.I. been on this river with us for, God I guess 12 or 14 years or
something like that. 50 or 60 ------ in the last five years. --- really stupid, I think
he-------- well actually night shift. ------I don't know if that's it because he has a
twenty-six footer or 30 foot like cigarette boat with 2 twenty fives in it. (they slide
up and down this boat)

What's the status on the woman, actually your sister with the pictures?- Ivy

I put my boats next to her house rather than taking them back to my place because
the traffic is so bad and I don't have any tail lights, never had breaks on my
vehicles until 10 years ago. I just kinda of coasted or down shifted ---- drive. I
remember one time James Dean, a good friend of mine, wee grew up together in
the fishing business, we use to go all the way to St. Augustine with ( our boats and
seines) and just ---- on the beach. We were coming back from St. Augustine and
me and James had ------- and we had about 8-9 hundred pounds of fish in the boat
and back then we just put them in the bottom of the boat. We were hauling them
up on the beach and we dumped the seine out and we dug a hole and bury them in
the sand and we go on and work our way down the beach making haul after haul.
And when we got though we come dig them up when we got back and looked like
you floured them with the sand, the dry beach sand. You can't do that any more
because that's called contamination of the seafood you are selling for people to eat.
The truth of the matter is you can leave that fish in the sand for a day and a half in
that cool sand and it would be fine. But when you wash that slime off, do what we
call sliming the fish, which is washing the slime off the fish then the body
temperature raises dramatically.

Oh, so as long as you have the slime on it its all right? -Pete









Yea, when I was a kid my dad, we didn't have an option of weather we wanted to
go fishing. We he'd get up at one in the morning or eight at night and decided to
go seining, then all the kids went with him, and we'd seine from the south jetties to
St. Augustine or from the south jetties, South of Ponte Vedra and we get back to
the house at five or six o'clock in the morning.....

END OF SIDE ONE

There are just so many things that have changed over the years it crazy.

Let's get back to James Dean-Ivy

Oh, I'm sorry I side tracked. Anyway we were coming back from fishing and if we
had on brake that was good, the right front, and when you stopped you had to do
the Wheel like this because you knew you were going to veer to the right because
you only had one brake. And of course back then traffic back then wasn't
anything like it is now days either. We come through they Mayport light where
the overpass is, there use to be a little car lot over there on the left and the light
changed on us. Well we had the boat with the fish and the truck, there was now
way to stop it. so James just (flipped) off the road over up into the car lot and he
hollared "Pick one!" and Harry said "Grey one!" and he hit that one. Found out it
was the only Mercedes Benz on the lot. It was an older on thank goodness, I don't
remember what it cost him. I can remember James coming by my house, I was in
college in 71 or 72, I was going to JU but I lived in Mayport, I had a little house I
rented up on a little hill. He come down to the house on day and said "you still got
that (Eddy Mash Mullet Net) and I said yea. He said come on we'll use your net
and my boat cause the mullet is thick down in Hannah Park., and I said Great so
we threw the net in his boat and took off, we drove like a bat out of hell to start
with. Come flying threw Mayport, we must of been going about 40 miles an hour
and the right wheel of the trailer went off the road and hit a ---- soft shoulder and
the only thing we kept the boat trailer tied to the truck was a jack hammer that just
went down through the hole and when he hit the hole with the tire the tongue went
down low and it shot the jack hammer straight up in the air. So the boat was
released from the truck, and I hollared "James the boats loose" and he said "Oh,
my God" and we looked around and saw it just in time to go through the bar and it
went through the side of the building. Crash! It almost killed one guy, I thought it
did. He had blood running out of his ears, his nose. He was sitting in an oak chair
and we had and an 4x4 tongue instead of a pipe tongue, he was sitting in the oak
chair, he was so drunk that he couldn't even walk. the 4x4 went through the back
of the oak chair and knocked him all the way across the room. So I'm in there
trying to convince him that he might be hurt don't get up. He's so drunk he just



4"









wanted another -Valt--, he drank Valstat Beer is all I can remember. the first thing
he said, I said you all right and he said "Are you a tourist?" and I said no I a damn
fisherman, and he said "ah hell get another beer I'm ok". If said tourist I would
have gotten sued! I said no man we've got an ambulance coming, I want you just
to lay here on the floor, I want you to get checked out because I'm afraid your back
could be broke, your so drunk you wouldn't even know your back was broke.
About a minute and a half went by and some huge guy that I knew that was a
friend of the family's that come over and said "what are you hollering at him
about?" I said I'm not hollering at him, I'm afraid he's going to get up and if he's
injured he's going to injure himself more. We got insurance and stuff just let him
lay on the floor. So I stand up to try and tell this guy what's going on and he
swings at me. So I knock him down in self defense, he's like 6'4" weighs about
240 and I'm about 145 pounds soaking weight at this time. And he get back up, I
mean I really hit him and he wears glasses too, when I hit him my fist caught his
glasses and just dug two --furrows-- right up his fore head. I know it had to hurt
bad, but I thought he wouldn't' get up. But he rolled over and got up and he
charged me again so I had to knock him down again, so I said he won't get up this
time but he got up again. So about this time the bartender, --murseties -- what we
call them comes out from behind the bar and puts a .38' in my ear and said the next
one who throws a punch, I'm gonna shoot. I says look I don't even want this fight,
put it in his ear because he's the one wanting to fight. So she made me go sit down
and him go sit down well then I didn't know it and I was talking to somebody else
she took her eyes off of him and he come up behind me and picked me up by my
hair and snatched me off the bar stool and I had real long hair then. Snatched me
off the Bar stool and I picked him up and body slammed him on the pool table. I
felt like I put every liter in my whole body he was so big. He landed on the pool
table and then he rolled off the table on the floor, I thought surely he won't get up
after that. He got up again, but when he got up he landed, he was such a big guy,
when he hit on the floor all of his weight I guess his hips --spread-- and broke the
clasp on his pants. When he stood up his pants fell down around his ankles and he
didn't have no underwear on and he really wasn't well endowed lets put it that way.
Everybody started laughing, he was really pissed then, he was really wanted to
hurt me then. He chased me around the pool table with the stick swinging. So
finally I got the stick away from him and knocked him down again and he was
reaching in his pocket to get his pocket knife out when the police showed up. I
was so gland when they got there. I think the guy that owned the bar knew my
father, and we agreed to replace the wall and that was about the end of it ----- boat.
We didn't make any money that day, that's for sure. I've had so many things, that
boy that just come by here awhile ago, David --Potts--, we were all going fishing
one morning his boat come off behind his truck and he drives fast too going
through the security guard shack at the bases, the Navy base. Tore the shack









down, the only thing you could see was shore patrol running everywhere trying to
get out the way of that boat. I almost looked liked one of those modem day
movies with all the special effects, ply wood and crap went everywhere. Cost him
something like four thousand dollars to have that shack rebuilt and a month later
they decided to move it and they demolished it and built it somewhere else. That
shows you how stupid things are now days. I built him a boat about 15 years ago I
built him a 20 foot --board-- when it came loose inside the base it went thorough
the palm trees and about demolished it, but we were able to rebuild it. But when he
went through the shack wood it --ground it up, there wasn't much left of it.

Do you always build all your boats?- Pete

Oh yea

And how long does it usually take you to build a boat? -Pete

It takes me about six weeks.

That's all, Really?- Pete

Yea, that's working about ten hours a day.

So when you build a boat you can't really fish or anything you just
build a boat?- Pete

Um uh, I've never been lucky enough to have a shop where I can build at my
leisure. I have to build it out in the yard and keep covering it up. I've had a lot of
requests for boats ---------- but I ----------

Whys that? -just tired of it- Pete

I don't know I just, its just something that is dead, I've had a lot of recreational
fisherman that wanted me to build them a boat. (Linda) how long was I when I
was down here, it was the first of last week when it was raining so much.
Remember I came over and didn't even launched a boat and my uncle come up and
hes got some rich friend that wants me to build him a boat. He's thinking about a
fiber glass boat, a better boat, something that's not going to rot, it don't cost as
much as my boat. If I build a twenty foot boat its probably going to cost you four
thousand dollars

* really?- Pete



y 9










Because the materials are going to be around two thousand and I'm going to charge
two thousand for six weeks work which is worth more than that. And the fiber
glass boats all around are better boats, I mean there is no doubt about it. Their
lighter, their stronger, well they may not be stronger but they are probably as
strong. In a wood boat you got, like this boat is made out of 1X12 cypress this
boat is made out of 1X12 --Grid--cypress, you can't even buy grid cypress all you
can get now is -----cypress. And at very best it is low grade even when you buy
select cypress your getting what we used to burn around the fire at the mill.

So when was the last boat you built?

The one that's ------ I build it about eight years ago. That's when I quit building
boats. I set one up and built a johnny.

I was going to say that looks like finger mullet but that was a bigger swirl. -Wife
said this

----------- hundred thousands pounds

* Are you serious what caused all that?- Pete

Sometime they just come up. I don't think they have any rhyme nor reason as far
as the direction they go other than tide, moon, and feedin habits and the urge to get
to the ocean cause they half to go to the ocean to spaun but probably 80% of them
do go to the ocean to spaun -------- ----------- down around the Cape.

So they always go by a full moon? -pete

Yea, see when you get your full moon you get your highest tides and your lowest
tides. With the new moon you get your highest and your lowest, then on your
quarter moons you get your lowest and your highest. You get the, let me see if I
can get my tongue to say this, you get the lowest highs and the highest lows during
the quarter and the three quarter, and during the full moon and the new moon you
get your highest highs and your lowest lows. Gravity and the poles you know. All
fish operate off ofwater temperature, some fish are keyed to spawn by the
temperature of the water when it changes, water temperature, time of the year,
number of day light verses the number of dark hours, the stage of the moon. It's
really complicated

how about storms and stuff like that?- Pete



Li










Storms, you see the barometric pressure drops, they don't care about that. It not
that th6 storm makes big waves its that the barometric pressure drops, say our
average pressure around here is about 30.14 and during a storm it's like 29.5 or
something not a hurricane, just a northeaster or northwestern. You probably have
if you have sinus problems and everything when you have a front coming in the
front goes through you get a sinus headache. That what causes the barometric
pressure

After a hurricane or right before a hurricane, do you ever go out then just
because- Pete

I've spent a lot of my life in hurricanes in big trollers not these. You wouldn't be
still alive especially this boat. This boat is not a sea boat, now the one I got back
at the house, I fish in the ocean. I fished in six to eight foot seas.

So what the last hurricane you went through?

Oh I guess 81' or 82, we always take our boats if we can get to shore we always go
way up the river because the worst of the water. Now I was in Camielle in Texas
when they built that steal pier and all that was nasty. I was in Dora off of here and
we made it in 115 mile per hour winds with a 32 foot sea wall. Our boat burn and
sank (around Easter) off of here. We were in the water fortunately not that long
just 4 or 5 hours, but it was scary I'll tell you that.

Did you make a lot fish that day.

Do what?

Catch a lot?

We lost that boat and it was January 26 and our season was kinda running down
around here and we were getting ready to go to ---------. Where you still fish
everyday you can scrap up enough to make a few bucks, and when you got three
thousand dollar payments on a boat you don't lay out seven day a week. That's the
only thing I don't miss being on the big boat I love the big boat but I don't like the
payments.
Now the little boats you don't have the payments but you don't gross the money to
have one. There is good and bad points about both of them I guess. I was off
shore here about 58 miles with close to a hundred mile gale and with 39 some foot
seas running for four days. You couldn't move, we had two anchor lines and had









the motor on 24 hours a day in gear to keep the anchor line from breaking or the
anchors from dragging. they had will watchers pond fisherman coded in the deck
that deep. They ----- like pulleys
They don't really fly, they come out the waves and their wings are going like crazy
and they kinda glide through.
Unclear tape...

Preparing to board boat...

Ivy, Sam and his daughter are now on the boat out in the water

I'll tell you fisherman can tell I love to sit around and listen to them talk. I always
thought we might have a country store or something and have a cracker barrel,
and apple barrel, and a pickle barrel you know. everybody would stop in there and
chew the fat and tell lies. That's the only reason I used to keep a lot of coon dogs,
I really didn't care too much about coon hunting as I did to hear the dogs voices.
But the best part of it was around the camp, they were drinking coffee and telling
stories.
I guess about fifteen- twenty years ago the blue haring there was only one main
pier down here. I was really concerned about it but then they outlawed the DDT.
The problems they had with the soft shells and the tarpon. And it evidently it
helped the blue haring ---. Knowing that there is probably 20- to 30 nest up there.
The blue haring is a huge bird, I guess the wing span is probably 6 or 7 foot. You
know you get too close to um and you move out the way. They're so used to
people throwing things at them.

You never finished the story about the boat in the bar-
Ivy

Yea I did. Repeating ending of the story.

Sam is showing Ivy a school of fish in the water Feeding mullet. Used for
recreational fishermen to catch flounder and bass.

Now the finger mullet, to the best of my knowledge what we call silver mullet,
they're not the same species as the black mullet to catch the larger harvest. But at
this time of year you see school after school. There is another one on the bow
now. I bet you in my lifetime I made the turn through this little back area a million
times. I bet you I have rode a half a million miles in a boat and this place is like
home to me.









Did you ever do any crabbing out here- Ivy

My sister did. I had a sister who was a commercial fisherman. She past away last
year. After about a three and a half year battle with cancer. She was a heck of a
fisherman They (giant plane flying over head, Can't understand)
I did real well, I made a good eleven hundred, but I surly didn't get rich by
anything, that's all the fishermen can really hope for, if you pay your bills, raise
your kids, and when its all said and done, you die and say at least I made it through
the life an I didn't have assistance from welfare people. I t seems to be a trend now
days, everyone wants to get rich off of somebody's else's expense, whether its a
minor car accident of whether its suing the people you work for or having a bunch
of kids and getting $279.00 per kid per month and you don't have to work and let
your boyfriend live in with you, your not married, its really sicking. In my
opinion, nobody likes to have to go to work every morning. Even if you like your
job, there are many of mornings where you wake up and say gee i really don't want
to be here. But it s just one of the facts of life.

Talking about work ethics (wind blowing hard to hear)

when I was shrimping I could lose 4 or 5 thousand dollars worth of equipment
every time I put those nets down in the ocean and I would never know. they don't
know how fishermen do it, ---- worrying about whether or not we are going to
make a weeks pay or not, but you just have to work harder everyday that you don't
make money. Monday through Saturday, if you don't make money Monday, them
you got to work harder Tuesday. If you don't make anything that week then the
next week you got to work even harder. And when you do make some money, you
got to be scenceable to put some of it aside so that you have some for those weeks
when you don't make anything. Now it used to be a big problem with the older
generation fishermen because they wanted to spend everything they made, and
they made good money at times of the year and there were times of the year where
they just
about starved to death. So if they had'nt set anything aside than they would have
some real hard times.

"Talking about the wind, and letting his daughter row the boat. Sam is
instructing her how to row. Commenting on how beautiful the day is. Talking
about how cold it gets

When were you born?- Ivy

I was born in 46'



5it










Then you are a year older than me. Were you born here? -Ivy

Yea, well we lived here but I was born in the Baptist Hospital. All of this area, see
that's mud right there about three and a half four feet.

I'm surprised it's pretty shallow -Ivy

This is just a little back bait. It's real soupy mud, see I got some on the ore, its
black mud really rich in nutrients so that it can keep the pollutants out of it. But
when you get to the mouths of these little creeks where the river ----- It drops of
about to about 10 to 12 foot deep. I haven't checked it in a while. Sometimes the
fish like to lay in that deeper water. There is so much live oyster in here that it just
ruins your nets. So I uses a real shallow net when I fish in here. I use 100 mash
deep net which fishes about 25 foot deep. But in here I use a 25 mash net which
only fishes about 6 to 8 feet deep. During the depression they had a what they call
a shell bridge, cut Pablo Creek right through here. And they cut that sucker
eighteen foot deep and it still is about 12 to 14 foot deep out there. Its over eight
foot deep right here.

"Sam and his daughter are changing back so that Sam can row."
Talking about tree. ( wind blowing) They are heading back to land

There are a bunch of helicopters. Jt not that we are doing anything illegal, it just
that they constantly want to monitor to make sure that you not doing something
illegal I guess.

(wind is blowing Sound interference)

There's a saying, the only thing a fisherman got to look forward to is a wet ass and
a (ornery) gut. It one of my all time expressions there

Its a good one- Ivy

Talking about his old tape recorder"









;*-





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