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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
UL 37A 3/q /
INTERVIEWER: Lew Barton /
INTERVIEWEE: Cindy Taylor pwh
DATE: October 2, 1975
B: This is October 2, 1975. ZI Lew Barton, recording for the University
of Florida History Department's American Indian Oral History Program.
This morning I am in my office at the American Indian Studies Center,
211 South Broadway, in Baltimore, Maryland, and with me, kindly con-
senting to give me an interview is a young lady. Would you mind telling
us what your name is?
T: Cindy Taylor.
B: Cindy Taylor. Is that Miss, Ms., or Mrs.;?
B: Mrs... How long have you been married?
T: About a year, and acbI was married a year in May.
B: Oh, I see.
T: Not long.
B: How old are you?
B: Eighteen... There isn't a new addition in your family, is there?
Since your marriage?
T: Yeb, I have a little boy, and( he nine months old the sixth of October.
B: Sii&. WIt his name?
T: Derrick Maki.
B: How do you spell that?
T: Derrick? It's D..E..R..R..I..C. .K.. and his middle name is Maki,
B: Who was it you married?
T: Q4..Steve Taylor...H's( a Jr., James Steven Taylor, Jr.
B: Were you born in Baltimore?
T: No, I was born in Lumberton.
B: I see. How long have you been living in Baltimore?
T: About six years.
B: Now, do you like it here, as well as in North Carolina?
T: No I love to be down there with family.
B: Is your husband also from North Carolina?
T: Yes, he from Lumberton too.
B: bPIt-hk. Have you found it a disadvantage to be Indian, or an
advantage, would you think, or what?
T: An advantage. I like being an Indian.
B: ( thinking particularly of the attitude of people towards you. es,
ft; do you think t kindly?
T: Yes, kindly. I q get, you know, rude comments about being an
Indian. Most of my friends, ywai they are Indian.
B: 19FjfEt. Did you go to school here for awhile?
rs^htHi 1hrousL EOL-^t
T: ih5 I went t the tka grade.
B: hytaUa And you were accepted in school without any problems?
T: ahih. Most of the time' I'' tell them I was an Indian, theyd)be
surprised, you know, and start -4m' m,, talking about my culture and
all, you know. Tl 'want to know more and more every time.
T: Andlike, I gained more friends that way, and they wq against me
or rOf-hin, the school I went to. They we n against nme,
B: Then being an Indian w sn' a disadvantage, was it?
T: IEsi. ,
B: Well, tht' ine. Do-you-thnk--sehoa, did you go to school in Ndrth
Carolina, too, didn't you?
siyes lt se-, (i 11 e(4
T: UWyha. I went toj '-----~- in Fayetteville, North Carolina.
T: 4A\c' L-ho ke ,chooQs$ in -4-L cV'-V i-c c-lro nOri ) 4o -6h1oe :oL'u '!if
-1h4 cCOu.'r"5 o r c-.rO-I. r" ." ,i)
B: WOmiteIr. Do you think schools are better in Fayetteville than they
are here *nvvs,.
T: They make you learn more.
B: They make you learn more.
T: a! Make you study. Have to study hard.
B: Are they sort of indifferent here in school about whether children
learn or not? Theydi keep in behind you to see that you learn?
T: -.M1ii..you mean, do they keep at you?
B: UhIE af
T: Down home, or up here?
B: But they dn ).... 3ihinking about both places. U; I gather from
what you said that they do keep at you, you know back home...
T: t / --
B: But up.here is it different?
T: Y t different. _g-ar=s iy a nn,, they
d n't try to explain nothing to you, when I was, aewo like in
English was my hardest subject. And seemed like I "tught it every
time, and )miss one dam and s c de way ahead of them
and Idhave to catch up, and she wouldn't explain nothing to me, you
know, it was hard for me to pass it, because she would never sit down,
you know, come to me and explain it to me.
B: Did you drop out of school?
T: MBefor you
B: Before you got married, or...
T: -b9FirW. \/-S.
B: l what is your father and mother's name?
T: My father's name is and my mother's name is broQrp-r
B: Va-re you any relation to 1Q Mary?
B: Mary Taylor?
T: Mary Taylor that comes down ? Th4 smy sister-in-law.
B: I see, well, t6a your sister-in-law.
B:( I'm beginning to get the picture. She is a very pretty girl, isn't
she? What do you think of Miss American Indian of Baltimore?
T: rfYrn) Arutr tkcxr. Trdc .
B: Do you think we should keep this pageant going?
T: I think it' a nice thing, for the girls that are eligible
to get in it, they should be in it.
B: Well, you've ived in North Carolina and yo'yvelived here. Do you
find any differences in living in North Carolina and living here?
T: Tct Of Z ? C a i- The air is clear down there, I know that.Th r
a lot of pollution up here and I do(tlike pollution. It makes it
hard for me, and I have to breathe
B: It' pretty congested too, here in the city, you're close to a lot
of other people. Does this bother you?
T: No, not really.
B: You get used to it, don't you?
T: -4a, you get used to it.
B: I can lie in my apartment and hear people talking in the next apartment,
things like this.
T: land a lot of cars going by. 2Qt hard to get to sleep, especially
on the weekends, when everybody out.
B: Do you think our young people back in Carolina, and our young people
here in Baltimore have different attitudes toward life? Have you found
any difference in the way they think and feel?
T: Not really. Ye- --m- ... I can tel E
B: You just have thought much about anything?
T: lh no I have .
B: Do you think theie a difference in the way children are brought up
in the city and the way thye brought up....
T: They change when they come to the city. Down home, you know, they
listen, they obey, and it seems like they want to listen down there,
but when they come up, it seems like that the city changes them. They
get sassy to their parents, you know, and dn"want to listen.nd I
ddn t like that.
B: Wonder why that is?
T: I don't know.
B: Do you think it might be because we live so close together in the
T: I think that's one reason. The other kids, get you know ibe-r -5'I --.
and they see the other kids doing it, they want to do it. They want
to do what they do. hey want to get you know, l\t or r hiq
B: Do you think there are a lot of street gangs in Baltimore?
B: Are there certain gangs that you fear of these young people, if they
dn'become a member or something, they might be shut out, or...
.1 iS r !
T: No, not really. There aie-nothing on _
B: There are more opportunities to do something that you wouldn't
ordinarily do back home.
T: Yeb, 3i'k wt"- Inw,like at the Indian Center. Because we used to
come down to the Indian Center to enter a lot of activities, to get
most of the kids be out off (he streets, to be in here. And I thought
that was nice.
B: Do you think morals are more relaxed in the city? You know, people
doing things a certain way? When I say morals, I mean, I dQ like
to use the word m orals. Do they live stricter and better back home?
T: rather live that way than up here. They dcntcare up here, but
down there they do.
B: Maybe tsh-lzh-are more relaxed in the city, and no matter what you
do, it snt found very much in the city, would you think?
T: Ykis that' mostly the way it is.
B: Back home you have ties, and you know everybody, and you know a lot
of people. It sort of has % some kind of effect on you, you know-
B: You care what other people think about itjpo you not?
T: I dd@ )care, they dn't even care
B: "52ib, do they teach sex education in school up here?
T: I di3, let's see, when I went Sch_____ _oo '
"T ac( -c ) I take that, but down home
I have a short memory, I think they do, it was up it
there when I was in the east, in home economics they taught it.
B: De .- ..-now a married woman, do you think the things
you learned in school were enough, or did you everhave any cause
to-wish.that)you''d learned more before you got married?
T: Yes, I would. I wished that I went on through.
B: What were your favorite courses when you were going to school?
T; Let's see. I like history, like history a lot, and math. But
in the business, I took business courses thinking that if I was
working rmjIv machines, and that and typing, I like typing.
But I had history also, and I made all good grades in history.
B: What are you going to be doing at the restaurant?
T: A waitress.
B: You think you like that kind of work?
T: 'I aisI never worked it. I might.
B: YQre) going to give it a try,anyway aren't you?
T: .Right. (11)give it a try.
B: In some parts of the city, maybe it hasn't reached this part, you know,
Women's Liberation Movement is pretty active.
T: ea Y.
B: But I wonder if ( reached this area.
T: I 0on't think so.
B: You on' have women coming by and preaching about women's rights, and
T: No, I dc __seen one of those.
B: You just heard something about it?
B: They say isunfair to call a woman Mrs., because if a man dosn'
have to give away the fact that( he' arrived, they say, why should a
woman? Of course, thlas pretty hard to argue with But have you rather
be called Ms. or Mrs.?
T: I like Mrs., because I like people to know 'I'm arrived! DWtj bother
---Iw*' --^ -
me. You know, I don't Tou know, like it too much, you know about, Women's
Liberation, it'ssilly. I guess people have their own opinions about it.
B: Right. And they are entitled to their opinion, whatever that is.
B: In the Indian family structure, its on the order of a patriarchal
so-called it, sociological, sociology, @% this means that the
husband is the absolute head of the family.
B: How do you feel about this? How does it work out at your house?
T; It works out okay. We have differences, you know, but I let him
do all the + 'fl9 and stuff. the man, I tell him, h
there, he thenan of the house. I said okay, you know, thaJ the
way it is.
B: People back home say, 1-%e an ba, if the any question about it,
they say, "I wonder who wears the pants in that family?"
I do I know. I guess prejudiced, though. I think i'sa nice way
to be. But of course I think that they should be equal.
B: The wife's opinion should be considered too.
T: Right. seems to me sometimes....
B: Somebody has to make the decision sometimes...
B: And I suppose the man is the one who breaks the tie.
T: Right, -.
B: What part of town do you live in?
T: Well, I live on PrattC.
B: Prattt Street.
T: Between 200 block. Close to the park,.
B: We have a lot of people living on Pratte Street now?
T: :a -, most... mps thee about half-and-half, you know, Indian and
white. I d ) see no blacks on..._
B: What do you think about interracial dating?
B: L4aa One person in one race dating somebody in another.
T: I hav.nt much to say about that.
B: Y.u fatherr not talk about that?
B: Were you very popular in high school? Did you go out for sports, or
some sort of thing?
T: Well, I took, I didntget into...
B: I think you already answered that question, so I shoul7n tsk it.
T: Right. I didn't et in many of the you know, activities, like basketball,
05 n4 nO
I wcveF too tall, you know, they like tall people,
but I went to a lot of the games and stuff likh that. I was into tennis,
I was going to join the tennis tournament, but I missed out on that,
because of this one girl. She $d tell me what day we were going to
practice for it, and I missed out on it,she tell me. I think she
was a little jealous, she was a little jealous because I was better than
B: How about the Women's Softball Team in the summertime. They had one this
T: mon that too.
B: 'Wrcaf cI4 you. oOWal4
T: C(_- -^ltd
B: How many games did you girls win this year?
T: We lost three. We won more this year than we ever won.
B: You won more than you lost, though,didn't you?
T: Right. 2min. We only lost three.
B: Did you play something like nine or ten games this year?
T: I think so, or something like that.
B: Is ( lot of funaean, to be able to go out and run......I wanted
T: Th (tsmy favorite sport.
B; Who do you think is the best on the Lumbee Indian Girl's Softball Team?
T: ThereS a lot of girls. pJ ri S l s good.
B: ThM l your cousin;, Pcint Taylor?, rF
T: No P',! r)f 5 (- O-r CIJ SQ's)good. The L- IsT 5--
ornt now hels) good. e's)short and stout, but fhet good on
B: Mrs. ?
T: UbQ T. S he'sood. And Ella Hunt, and Dolores is-g. migood player.
B: How about Wendy Parks, is she pretty good, too?
T: Yeb, s e good on running. She can run!
B: She says her mother, Mrs. Elizabeth Locklear, is a better hall player
than she is. Do you think h'sheright?
T: Oh, sh&is pretty good. She picking up some of her habits, you know,
so that her ball playing looks good. Sbes getting a little too old,
I think. If she heard me say that, s ;e'l probably hit me.
(LAUGHTER) She's al the time picking on me, anyway. She sood, she's
B: ahe' a e pretty active person.
B: She takes part in a lot of things. If you had your wish, and you could
change anything you could for Indian people or for your Indian community,
what would youlike to see changed most of all?
T: What would I like to see changed? f3\ one thing I'dike for us to have
our land back. Tht's ne good thing, and bike to see all of us
work together and you know, do one,,..all of us, you know be bac-t
B: A i. Do you think we r better organized, or that we are better
united in the city here, than in North Carolina, or whether were
not? Or about the same?
T: I think about the same.
B: Do you plan to have a big family?
T: Not too big. I plan to have about one more. Maybe two.
B: Where does your husband work?
T: He works for the painting company... Plcd Painting Company.
B: A lot of the Indian people are in Baltimore paint, don't they.
T: Most of them, ____ __________E
B: I don' believe we had talked about your brothers and sisters,
father and mother and so on. Could you tell us a little something
more about them? How many sisters and how many brothers?
T: All right, I have three sisters and one brother.
B: Can you remember their names and ages?
T: U1 The one next to me, Janet, he's eventeen, and Barbara, we
call her "Cooter" for short; ie's fourteen, and my brother, his name--
we call him "Poppy". You've probably seen him dancing in the
dance...they call him Poppy. His name... e a Junior.His name's )
too. He welve, and I have a little sister, four. Her nane'
B: lirhiWh. Which one...were you the oldest in the family?
T: Yes, (I'm the oldest of all of them.
B: Do you think that r an advantage being the oldest?
T: I like it. I like being the oldest! But I wish I had a big brother.
B: Somebody could sortaVprotect you and stuff.
B: The young people seem to learn Indian dances very easily, don't they?
B: The younger the better?
T: *rm"a my little sister,, she danced, too. My mother had her
an outfit made, I think my little cousin, lended i- (Car (-r- n
my aunt, his wife's my aunt, hat's my mother's sister, she helped my
mother make my little sister one, CId' -shp LCO.A )cd CId L.P
_-_ _r_-. __n_ _- d ______ -41oQ she wanted 4 T hb b .....!,-
she wanted them to get out there and do the boys' dance
T: /ut she had to do the girls'. $),...they were in that parade in
Pembroke. They were at the Pow-Wow down there.
B: Did you have a nice time at the Lumbee Pow-Wow?
T: I didn't nake it this year. I didn 'tgo this year, but'rE e-dege ..
I used to dance with the Indian group, and we went down there. I
believe it was the first time we ever went down there, and we went
down there on July the Fourth, and we went down there, from my grand-
father..he was sick, and he died while we were down there, and we had
to stay there over, and then another friend of ours died and we had to
stay and sing at his funeral. Well, we sing a lot.
B: You sing with a group?
T: No, my family. We was raised up in the church.
B: Oh, ye&a.
T: Singing. Theyr singing down there now. They ain't been too long
moved down there. But they moved down there in June.
B: At which church do you attend?
T: I attend (\r" I- Cr .5 Ch .,4d.^
B: Well, the music certainly sounds good. 4g, ... it' the most
relaxing thing to me when I go to that, just listen to the music. I
like it, I think, best of all. Maybe I shouldn say that, but -.like,
to me church music, even better than the preacher.
T: Yc -
B: that.sja wonderful preacher.
T: prcae-Pra JQ3_Yps ?
B: -Pnfi yi
T:V He gets along good with the younger people. And he has, you know, it
seems like (heT'-lose to them. He can sit down and talk to them and
like, Che' young right along with us.
B: ute aa H j- a t- -oQ :yI,-o
T: Right. (Laughter)
B: I d( Jp suppose e 'yery old anyway, is he?
T: No. If he is, he d tj look it.
B: aE quite a looker.
B: Everybody seems to respect and love him...
T: Yeal", intso-W.
B: And I know he's -robably closer to the people than anybody else, maybe.
T: Yeil, he seems easy to get along with, you know. I guess part of t's
JSecause he was preaching. Everybody sitting and listening to him,
what he has to say.
B: Do you plan to live the rest of your life out here, or...
T: No, I want to go back now, but we ca&t)right now, you know.-He=ome
wc^s-.r...we was staying there this summer. We was down there for
about two months, and we came back. He was working and got laid off
down there. He was painting down there, and he come back up here, and
he got his job back being, he makes more, he made more up here than
he did down there, c-r\d -CC u C- it QA S U v'n v and someday
Ve' probably be back down there.
B: Was it the Les Maxwell school you attended in Fayetteville, North
T: Les Maxwell...I went to that school right down from CO ri -PO
B: My wife used to teach there.
T: Yei6, I used to go there, and I went to I went to W Q SrNrCrT .
and let's see, CLryur IS you know? And
Les Maxwell, you know, -mostly Indians went there, t4=-I think -Vr- ) 5
So i- a hjL b yC57. Most people I knew that went there were there,
you know? But those other mFj g went toVlike white school. They were
B: When you got married, did you lose touch witk your young friends, your
T: Nb, but he, you know, I couldn't go with them, like I, hang with them
like I used to.
B: That's understandable.
T: We still 'talk.
B: (I wondering, when a young girl gets married, does her girl friends
kind of a...
T: Pull away?
B: .a. J ,'
T: No, mine, as far as, you know, when I first got married, nobody would'
nobody di n come and see me. I was soeeoe sitting by myself all day,
and then 6f e come home. None of my friends would come see me. You know,
my sister-in-law and my sisters would, but none of my other friends. But
now, you know, they rv- h'`^-and got to know him, I guess they came
closer, come back.
B: They didn't himlery well to begin with.
T: Right. Some of my friends didn't, and I d nt know some of his friends
neither. So he was in a state where you know, boys they always stick to-
gether, his friends.
B: What would you say to other young people who are contemplating marriage?
Thinking about getting married early. Do you think eighteen is too
T: No, I was seventeen when I got married.
B: Do you think you got married too early?
T: I think so, you know, i not too bad, you know, I like, I was in
love, and I wanted to get married, and I don see nothing wrong with
it, but if you get married and ain't going to make it, you shoulMnf
""i ams if you think you6 reot going to get along with him, marriage
is what y iiMEww-you can make out of it, and you have to, .uEma-MaQ make,
wamtIne, I da even say it.
B: You have to pick carefully, d nt you?
T: Right. Ye h.VYoung people I see get married, and they all the time
arguing and fighting, and just want to break up, and 1 see that.
Get married and then turn around and yua aW. get a divorce by the
time you get married. I see a lot of that. -SZii young people.
B: Do you think that comes from getting married too young, or something?
T: I think so.
B: Well, I want you to know that ven enjoyed this interview very much, and
y e very kind to give us an interview.
T: I liked it too. I was a little nervous at first.
B: Well, th reI nothing to it, really. B i'snot a very hard thing
to do. I want to wish you and your husband all .the happiness in the
T: Thank you.
B: I know your husband,but I know you, and I think very
lucky and I'm sure you are too.
T: YeAS I am.
B: And I just want to wish you the best of everything in the community.
I hope you get your wish to come back to North Carolina.
T: Ye-L, thanks.
B: Thanks very much.
T: U' welcome.