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Title: Interview with Herbert Locklear (September 23, 1971)
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00006840/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Herbert Locklear (September 23, 1971)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: September 23, 1971
 Subjects
Subject: Urban Lumbee
 Notes
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00006840
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Urban Lumbee' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: UL 34

Table of Contents
    Copyright
        Copyright
    Interview
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        Page 4
        Page 5
        Page 6
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        Page 23
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        Page 25
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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida









UL 34A
Subject: Herbert Locklear Director of American Indian Center
Interviewer: ;er-BarBtpu A /l '
9/23/71 I


O): September 23, 1971. Here in Baltimore, Maryland at the American Indian enter,
Anmeea rudlaTTehee, Mr. Locklear just walked in. Mr. Locklear, whereare you

where are yo employed?

L: With the Baltimroe City Department of Social Services.

Os: Whak's)your official position?

L: I' ig division chief of centralized applications for family.

S': We have someone who came oVer to the /enter for some business. What are you

doing here sir?

S: My name is Peter Sandtish and 'm from the United Farm Worker's organizing

committee. W' the inion th t' organizing migrant farm workers on the west

coast and we hope eventually to begin a national union.

) : Why would you be here% since these people aren't farming today?

S: Well the immediate reason why we came here today was to see if we could share

a booth at the Baltimore City Fair which beSins tomorrow because we want to sell

buttons tat-has our boycott.

9 : Do you think Indians and your organization has something in common? Common goals?

S: Well half the farm workers in the country are I# ia6 I think th t a common goal

right there.

) : Hasfie a boycott started in Baltimore?
S: 4re presently organizing our boycott against some remaining non-union California

grapes. And t;been pretty quite successful with the chains but e e having

problems with the little stores.

V : Thank you. You said something about, I' -- i 41 he said something about a
booth.

_IL4_1





2 .




: This is Adolf Dial speaking. Just walked down to the white coffee shop. No the
rf I
white ('!C7,-( DT and while sitting there waiting for my order, a few booths

down I spotted someone, I never met him before but I recognized him as a Lumbee

Indian so I went over and I a--i from North Carolina and he said, "Yes" and

he says, "I was looking at you thinking of the same thing." This is Mr. af\D i

Smith. Mr. Smith, how long have you been here inh

S: Off and on approximately twenty years.

B: Yo been here approximately 20 years. How do you like Baltimroe?

S: I do'n.

B: You do' like it. Why have you atayed here so long?

S: Well conveniences is supported my family, supported myself, better wages.
S, DRobes5on
B:- Tf~-yoeu-a,. if you knew some young people back in Roberson County now were

planning on coming to Baltimore, would you say come or stay at home?

S: Tell to stay at home, __

B: Why would you tell them to stay in Robeson Mr. Smith?

S: Well because of i e, the city _e the city. And this i--the

younger generation i\ S y 0 --th e-good for them.

B: Do you find as much discrimation here, in Robeson County?

S: Well it depends of the viewpoint.

B: What do you mean it depends of hte viewpoint?

S: Well -lit?- hard to sayjbut in some categories the Ies more Ihamr other

categories the e less,but-isL.

B: What categories have more?

S: I cE explain i exactly.

B: Well\maybe one of these other guys can explain it. We have here also Mrs. Rosa

-1D and Mrs. Elizabeth Barry Locklear, M. El"s-z beth-Ba w-lekien ,

and a young gentlemanwha' your 4we sir?

L: James Locklear.










3.



B: Jamesy Locklear. How old are you James?

L: i5 |.

B: This is a group that just happened to be here. Miss Barry works with the

Center some and Miss 'b 'W is a full time employee. You're/not a fulltime
Sn,
employee, are you full time Miss Elizabeth Locklear, also a fulltime employee.

And Mr. Herbert Locklear, who is director for the Center, he is not a full time
r~ -----"-""---^--
em ployee but he is the director. Now what is your occupation Mr. Smith?

S: 'm a painter. _
\J,
B: Make a little more money here than at home?

S: Oh yes.

B: This is one reason you stay here.

S: Tha part of it.

B: You gave me another reason in the restatnt awhile ago the eason-y y here,

would you give that reason?

S: Well I had if -4 my mind -t-st, to go home in another year and a half, JTg.

eighteen Rbnths -t-d"-4t. So I became a worker of the Lord and I found it a

greater work here now than I could find back home and I have a desire in my

heart to fulfill before I could ever return back home because there f a great

need for God here, in this place.

B: )Eij is there a greater need among the Lumbee's here than at home?

S: Yes there is.

B: In other words, yor saying that, ass Very difficult to-maybe bring up a

family mayber here in the city of Baltimore?

S: Yes, ysa I would-I-woA4L suggest that anyone that had a family or intend to have

any family at all would take their families and 1TVe the cities for the yougg



B: Now returning again to aesRui CowUy, James Locklear, Jaes-h L-tia how old are
)





4.




you James?

L: 16.

B: And yoi in school?

L: Yes r .

BYou come here/ the center to work-seae?-arttime?

L: Unr-um. )

B: Would yolagree with what Mr. Smith said?

L: Yes.

B: Why?

L: Young people are getting involved in drugs and cutting and ,ightAng and violence

all the time.

B: Haetagu, are you getting involved?

h: No.

B: How have you been able to stay clear of this?

L. But) I hang with the people that do it.

B: Do you plan to return to Robeson?

I: When I get older.

B: When you get older, you plan to return to Lumbee territory, back home. Now Miss

Huntez. yenae- what is your official position here, secretary?

H: Yes .ir

B: YSu're Mss Rosa Hunt, secretary of the American Indian Center. Miss Hunt, what

would you say about the questions I just asked? Would you agree or disagree?

H: I agree.

B: You agree. But yet I see yo&u involved here with the Cnter, so what is your

philosophy on that?

H: Well, blg ay upj my husband is employed, here 'm employed here now,
/ jcyA ^y K. .
and we talk about going back home, butAt's just, something in the air I think.

B: You talked about going back home. If you were in California, as a minor and





5.




someone said "where is your home?" What would you tell them?

H: North C/rolina.

B: What would you tell them?

iJL-: North C4rolina.

B: North C/rolina?

L: North CArolina

B: So everybody calls home North 9Arolmna.f \,,- i.', CPi Oxendine.--And Mrs.

Elizabeth Barry Oxendine. What is your position here?

0: I1(i'4 b& Gt ,\ bkC 5 and also h 6_\'_(

B: And also Y U -the center.

0: I teach school three hours in the morning and a b\Vb program.

children together and I work here eight hours a day.

B: How.:e w long have you been here Mr. Smith?

S: In Baltimroe?

B: Yes.

S: I think I been here 20.'

B: So you think 20 y _ars, PLt- _. Miss, Miss Oxendine, how long

have you been here?

0: 16 .years.

B: 16 years When do you plan to return hogi?

0: We have been planning to return 46mh5 for the past five ears.

B: B yo.u but you just have got around it.

00:Gotten around to it.

B:M4 i-4-im t-r, T. o le;Vrlr Mrs. Hunt do you plan to return?

H: I hope so.

B: Lit's see -d" Elizabeth Barry Locklear, e-.es-,r

Mrs. Locklear, tetl me somethinaboi ut, your involved) here in Baltimore?

L: Well I would like to ae t- Mr. SmithSstatement about discrimination and






6.



recognition of the Indians, PAdand the only recognition you can get in

Baltimroe is the recognition that ye give yourself. When you go to Baltimroe

City, publicc schools in Baltimore yor either blAck, white or other, so there

is no recognition in the program. MWe've'had teachers from number 23 and'6 and

number 8 to meet with us at the center, and they briefly said to us we never asked

the children what they are-i if th e black we put black and if th jre white

we put white but yet they ask you your life history, your home conditions, but

they forget to ask to usa very important question. So this is why we felt a

great need of the American Indian Study Center, whichh we worked in/two and a half

years, with no pay, it was all volunteer work on our part.

B: ad ve -e"-iea -' ndten.e-the1.h.L e-L'-yoc'we4 all of you have been here a long

time, have you seen things change much from(he standpoint of the Lumbee Indians

since you came here?

L: Yes/I would say a lot of the things from the GeAter, we have a lot of publicity

we have a lot of people that are recognized-'' '.;: Indians here, that,

say they never knew they were here before and 7' -2 44-' schools, I thikk

'tTts help/the children alot in the school4beca unow they have -aet to make a

special rrn-^o leththe people .now that they are Lumbee Indinas.

B: je, d i J- hr" a, ,_______,

from my reading at one time, but since I've been in the WDnter I think that's

i changed my mind, I was reading once, it seems like people wanted to refer to the

Lumbree Indianias a Baltimroe Indians, do you hear that much now?

L: Not,--et Baltimore Idianrbut Baltimore Street ians. This is problem that

we have hangedL-aing thata11 Indians -Baltimroe Steeet.



L: The news media and people out they always put the-I-T-ians on Baltimore Street.

B: But you all ought to be known as Lumbee Indians in Baltimroe?

L: Right.





7.




S : They even had it once a boo published a picture taken of
S~: They even had it once .a b A T

the 1800 block of Baltimroe the Ifdian reservation.

B: Now what is the address of the .tneeT-NAe-t5 e American Idian Center? -Whats



L: 211 south Broadway.-

B: 211 South Broadway Street.

L: r Broadway.

B: ret Broadway.

S: Zone 31.

B: Zone 31, Mr. Smith do most of the I4tians and all of you, most of the fNaM s

live in which zone, zone 31?

S: The majority do1 "enaie.- wyr, zone 31 contains the majority but theleg

quite a few that do live in other zones.

B: SeS well give me the streets, do-you-al,.can you all agree on the streets and

Et O what streetgja SIraavweeC-do most of them live?

S: Well)I would say from Eastecn Avenue t.o Eastern Avenue south of Baltimore, Street

to Jefferson north of Baltimore Street and from Central Avenue. east Baltimore to

I would say.,,

: ( ii aven, '44 < O' Baltimore street Haven.

S: HaVen, right.

B: Do yoou all agree on this?



: No this is boundaries.

S: This is the boundaries, all just about all af them.

B: The boundaries and of course about all of them li3e-n almost of them are living

in east Baltimore, this is east Baltimroe i n it?

S: p l i s w

B: Now den 7uu T ae, d you have a few people living in surburbia who are Lumbees4





8.



,ho might never associate themselves say witf this group of Lumbees and who
/ .~--_^ '
basically are going for white and never making Indaih or something like that?

Do you have this kind of thing?

S: ft, well there is, in some incidents, but there is some that live otut that

come in d associate with them. I was just thinking that th 1 portant.

Than like some people live over on, off of Boulvevard and the"i some

live probably over west. Now the ones Street, I think -hey-. they

eui-be- consider d-themselves white. They happen to be __

B: Well do they look white? Mofre white than the-..ljVa

: A lot more

S: Yes.

B: More white than some of the others. In other wonis yo'r saying that some;

Indians who came here who look whites, but they might yet'might decide to be

white.

S: Yes, w&-we divi rtT ont know ithat tiy, they,'r. not as proud of thetr

race as I am.

:I think alot of the problems. Some of the ] aians as you know, when the Lumbees

Ilian was established i they were in Baltimork f happened and i hard for

them to be a Cherokee today and a wmbee 'Itdian tomorrow. And we have some that

will never change and stop saying that I'4a Cherokee Indian even though we know

they know that they are Lumbees, but they are not

B; In other words they came here maybe before we were designated as Lumbee and they

were Cheroked and they still want to use the name Cherokee?

: Right, right.

S: Well io s, is it a fact that Cherokee was a nation and we happened to be

.a tribe of it.

B: Well I think that he Cherokee blood down home-but I think that the Lubbee name

is really the the more suitable one because of the because we also have

perhaps eastern Souix, the tribe, and the there are remmants of the





9.


2

now extinct tribe.

S: And I think thee some Creek. As far as Georgia that came into there.

B: So of many tribes. Therefore the Lumbee name seems to be a

very good -aame.

S: because of this .

B: And I would hope we would never change it. I hope that ) there to teach.

Do you all feel the same way?

: Ys.

S: Well the reason-S-wasy-t1-only reason I brought that .p4aig out, maybe that if

it was explained to these that wasn*tto-b -,call themselves Cherokee, that the

Cherokee is a nation and that we happen to be a tribe of the nation of the

Cherokee which is th eLunbee tribe. You think that maybe they would accept

it because the Cherokee nation is just like the Souix and we have, in the o x

you have the Seminoles of Florida. The Seminoles d call themselves the

Souix. They call themselves Seminole5but they are a tribe of the Souix nation

whieh-+s the Lumbee's then they are a tribe of the Cherokee nation. Whereas

each nation contains many tribes of different, different names.

B: The only thing about it I think wee)more Souix than Cherokee.

S: I would think, I would think so too because ...

B: In South Carolina.

S: Carolina is a Souix nation.

SA lot of people d n' like -T name Lumbee because people often say you know well

I never heard of that tribe. And andit makes them ashamed because they say

that they do not know where the name Lumbee came from they on'tknow why it

was started and they are ashamed but ty t I said well dians wh -we-are

and my statement wel is wzil there were:,over 200 and some tribes and how many

can you name? Because-irt-

S: Well ts")just like saying Lk.rh tilg l B ''a army hey asked me if I was Co





10.




American Indian and I said es sir. But as far as the name they aalllus all

American Ind because 'rin America. So they would call us a Lumbee Indian

because in.other words our environment right then, in other

words our point right then is the Lumber River and we take the name after the

river which would be the Lumbee Indians.

B: Right. Are all of you involved in church work?



B: Where do you attend church, Mrs. Hunt?

H: West Cross Street Baptist Church and (Ma Sunday School teacher there.

B: Is this where most ff the IVdian Baptists go?

H: Yes.

B: How about you Mrs. Locklear?

L: The same church.

B: Miss Elizabeth Barry Locklear. And how about you Mr. Smith?

S: Well C4 a member of thrdission that sends missionaries well up keep te

Dy missionaries in Haiti and this different Paces, and people need -apmw joeand -7

also the treasurer of this mission.

B: WhatYs the (am of this miss(lon?

S: Hour of D6liverence.r

B: Hour of Deliverence. Who formed this?



B: Indian people here or,-
i/ uja 5
S: Well there all combined in/ther words there arm, w- whoever wanted to help within

the act, andr,.

B: Well somebody had to start it.

S: Well a I think J I think is his name. 's, in other words

he got the charter.

B: When was this?





11.




S: I don know how long the charters been out but C- j jast now

beginning to (..

B: Since yo'v9 been here?

S: Well just since ( e been here.

B: So all of this has happened since yo'v been here?

S: Oh yes. And we began to leae out of the church now and begin to start having

street services for peopleo4 n' know the way of the Lord,/who caLn get them intl

the ch rch to put-4he, share the message of hte Lord so we take the message to
_f,\ItJ ofo0 (( ItVw^ be n q'
them. S ths-is-what we had I think since the begibn.mLagstrept services w4tch

wetnhacDefore, we had the policee call on us 0.one out of four and after the

police came they stayed around and protected us until it was over so3therefore

it must have been the will of the J6rd cause it happened.

B: What aboufthe education here for your children. Would you comment on this,

Mr. Smith?

S: Well ) a higher lvel of education that they get here according to ack home.

Course you can look on the census of (t)e education state and Iykl1 notice that
Br,) /
Maryland is way aboue the standards of education t4an North Prolina from what I

can understand and pilot of thee education they receive-.:here in the public schools

they get free where back home they have to pay for t. Different things, for

instance, like typing or or you take like a trade work. They they receive this

free here in the public schools but I would say that would make g- school any.

any cheaper here because whe.e., whether they get that feee1 they got/ s)much to

paying t e other* directly.

B: What do you think of the schools here young man, James Locklear?

L: AT schools?

B: Yes.

L: I o like them i

B: What grade are you studying?





12.



L: 1-teh.-T-n^

B: Why n' you like the schools here?

L: Th e too _(__r_ _) .

B: You think thers' alot of racism here?

L: Ye6.

B: Give me an example.

L: Well if yore white, t4her-l-meaa they beat you up and take your money off.

S9 Always after you for some reason, and if yo 2re INdian they think youfwhite too

^, 1' 0 and they want to do the same thing. S' r tihn pr4lpe.
":v 4o -' ______ ____ _____ __ -
B: Well you must 4uehad*more negros and more black than white and or Indian?



B: A n ud1,it..rt hsxn Pb b-hlaeks?? fJ- -. r ,ri

L: Noa-eii- ;l1 )'th/ % sh >c r' ,r Ly 4

B: Is the percentage about the same where youre3hildren go to school?

S: It could be a little bit more,mainly betsehe-schools now before it was about,

it wa- ah bt the same as he said but bc.agse mine transferred down to a closer

schco)wulich half the school transferred from where I live there the more

blacks.

B t^Ar h n u PP4ing ff-^-Tana c e?

5:_--Uh?-

B: Ae they using busing for a racial balance here si 5 4enda4g them across the

city and so forth.
/7
S: Well one has the way to do these provide transportation.

B: Miss Barry?

B: They give free bus transportation providing a car has a !c h ,

,EtTj not the fEae-of discrimination e doing it i(f jthe parents themselves

now that that the blacks student__

but in the cities and the elementary schools the QjYT !V't f Wj VnI 9'/a

B:





13.




B: And where your children attend are most of them black?

L: Not my son who is seven years old he goes to 23 Aich I would say 90% white

and 5% Indian or black.

B: What about your children Mq. Mrs. Loekeet-



B: Mi-i tmi-nt-eecuse.jpe. You were a I/cklear before you married? Right?



B: alright.

h.: [ 50I15 about 80% black.

B ?

: Their education system?

B: Yes.

: Well the one,_thae-nmy children a in I think they have a very good education

because at an modern school and fairly new. And they have all new teaching

systems, theyAhave so many children in each class and they have ew VeVf' machines

and all kindjof equipment. Anything they need there, so I think this SySiC"



B:-Ret-ur4gg, we started a lovely bank in North CArolina, I guess you all knew of

this. (I'lmone of the organizers and this bank will open in a few weeks and tfte

we would hope that you would you know)you could write checks on a*y bank as long

as the monj there. We would hope maybe that you all would like to mail your

checks in, make your deposits with us, that you do business with us. ThG, it

about 90% plus and all of the Ipgian board of directors. Miss Elizabeth,

do you I Iee y 're having \a \'\rr oe i' ,_ September

see what do they call it; Indian day?

: No tsthe city fair.

B: City fair. Now you all expected to take place in the fair?

: Yes we 'r'l hkbielhf parade. Quite a few will have





14.




B: When is the parade?

L: Tomorrow at 10:00 o'clock.

B: (Dm'lle there an&jl44 expect to see you all. Do you have anything else you

want to say about the fair?

Z : No except we w6 t)be under the big tent witorur booth.

BS Oh ou did receive a telephone call awhile ago, what was that telephone?

L-: It was a lady was trying to get 1w a t at different booths under the big

tent at the city fair to display _igns encouraging people to adopt black children.

B: How do you fell about this?

L : Well I think fine but I think we should put one up to adopt Indian children

if er going to ave an Indian. booth.

B: Do you feel black children will be better off to be adopted by black people?

S: Yes definitely.

B: And Indian children adopted by I ,ian parent?

L : Definitely.

B: And white adopted by white?

S: Yes, right.

B: Do you feel that way to Miss Hunt?

H: Yes o.

B: And how about you Mr. Smith?

S: I feel that it sgodld be that way beause--of-nr ot, not because of the people that

adopt them but because of the child itself. Qat grow up in a n ----

knowing what theyare and believeng 4i that they are what tftey are. And that way

wh en they grow up they can grow up to hav a better understanding of themselves
P70
but i if a white adopt a black and an Indian adoptsa white then they grow,-anrd

te -kids-s confused. The-children is often confused, I mean I place myself in

t-f1, their shoes now, wondering how I would feel-"1 being raised up.this way.

B: Looks like Jvi'Foiwhatev s right, they always have a tough time in a situation.





15.




And the white students at Pembroke 4 entry school have a hard time

Now we had we had two young girls just walked in and two boys. How old are you?

Ct-: 13. 711A7^

B: Wha(tsour name?

L: .i Locklear.

B: And your name?

BB Billy Barne.

B: Billy Barne. And how old are you? Billy,

BB, 14 oo vi

B : And your name?

T: Virginia Taylor.

B: irginia Taylor. And how old are you?

T: I 1t,.V'

B : And your name?

F: Barbara Breeman.

B: Barbara Freeman. And how old are you, Barbara?

F: -1e. "Y-

B: All of you are Lumbee Id is?

U: Yes.

B: And and what do you come here for?



B: Yes.

: Play pool.

B: Play what?

: Pool.

B: Play pool. You girls going to play pool too? What do you think of this center?

: You like it? Are you proud that it provides something extra for you to do?

U: Yes. Yes.






16.



B: What do you have in your schools mostly? Indian children or blakc children? Or

white children?

U: White, black and white.

B: Mostly black?

U: Yes.

B: I see,you all get along ood with the blacks?

U: '

B: Get along here with the whites?

U: No.

B : You say no, what troulbe you have?

U: Yes. Not all the time, some time they do sometime6they do't

B: e you born in Baltimroe?

1 I: No.

B: Where were you born?

Sf: North Cfrolp na/

B: When someone asks you children where home is, if yo 'r in California tomnorbow,
,^---'
suppose you made a trip to California and someone says wheIes your home? What

would you tell them?

,: North Crolina.

B: What would you?

U: Baltimore.

B: What would you?

U: Baltimore.

B: What would you?

T : North Crolina.

B: North CArolina. Now two of you said North CArolina and two, Baltin(9. -Whae-

wold you rather live in North CArolina?

7 0: Yes sir.
I I






16.



B: Would you rather live in North Carolina or Baltimore?

2 4: North Cqrolina.

: North dCrolina.

SJ: North Carolina.

B: Everybody in this room, right nowAseven,-adk said th y' father live in North

Crolina. r'\our teachers nice to you?

U: Yes.

B: Do-yu Lr h, what race is your teacher?

"V : Negro.

f: White.

? : White.

S1J: Negro.

B: Two negros and two whites. o you doAT' have any Itian teachers do yo here

U: No.

B: How would you like to have some? You like that, be fine, h h. What the thing

that you like best about the schools here?

,0: I cad say.

B: Whatil the worse thing, wh t the thing you dislike most?

V7 : Gym.

B: What?

2 4: The gym.

B: The gym. Why you d(n5 have a good gym?

"74 : No we got everything, )j. v W' la- teachers.

B: Oh you do 4 like the teachers. Why?

7 : I just dIQ like them!

B: What about you?



B: Ia wstak., I heard on T.V., a little girl, said (4 first day in school the things





17.




she enjoyed, she-was in kindergarten, said the thing she enjoyed most about

school the first day was whether teacher got mad and started crying and ran out

the room. O.K.,ank you children, very nice, carry on. How many Indans do

you have here in the city of Baltimf in the public schools?

: We: only have one llian teacher that I know of in in the public schools bat she

only started right in the middle of the l't semester, last year.

B: Wha>'s er name?

: Miss Virginia Sherman.

B: Where' she from? Robeson county?

: Yei. Robeson county.

B: Doh; you have a couple others-en-the-out of the city limits? And who are they?

: Yes. W have one or twoJ'w I .-- ondon, I think we have one in

Brooklyn and the other one )I think is in Some-, someplace dewn, I

d4;7iknow exactly whith school they teactin.

B: Where does Billie Locklear teach?

: I think h'Lsin .

:B- Te seems to be getting along good where he is.

: Yeah e, een over a couple of times.

B: Now this center tbhliz.s-eeis here in an old church on Broadway Street that was

built the church was built in 1848. And the sanctuary was used I noticed by the

Russians, Greeks and Catholics, Orthodox church. IsI that the way i lslisted?

: Russian, ye4$,:RaSTau, Russian people.

B: Russian?

: Greek.

B: And Greek.

: Orthodox. 7

B: Orthodox church. But I saw he Catholics on it too. You know the ?

: No.





18.




B : But anyway Russian and Greek orthodox church. Now they only here temporarily

because their church was burned I understand and (t a possible of you all

trying to buy this church and use this for the center and you'have your sanctuary

too I understand.

: Right, we hope so.

B: You hope so.

: Nof --wd' ii speaking of the schools we have a program here where,.hy we

get 'htrree tuitons for college students and under this program which is a technical

I started two community colleges Baltimore legt in the spring

semester. And I started back and went again into the fall semester so Ihoping

to work toward a social worker assistant degree if I

B: Is this scholarship for all l ian children?

S(t for any, city employee and it comes under other headings/ People that are

not neccessarily city employees that apply for the grant,but as far as I know

right no the only Lumbee Indain that is attending college under this grant ,

-B-: Do you have any special scholarships here yet for Lumbee Indains, if they want to

go to college, that you know of?

: Not Jiat funded for Lumbee Indians. We have been any to get one scholarship which

we sent the brother ts attending school and now is going to Pembroke University'

We were able to get this sponsored out of the church fund.

-B: Which church fund?



B-: What are some/ft our best community programs at the cente4sable to do?

: Here in the center?

-B-: Yes.

: think the most progrefsiveg program that we have so far is the dance group.

We have about 25 boys and girls and maybe three or four adults -br working with*p '

They go throughout the state and taketor-the quite a few trips this year especially





19.




when thy froma 'to perform dances and for differnet organizations within the

state.and they get paid for dancing, which is $50 per dance and sometimes they

df 4e without charging- wam for special occasions or for ifetrest d Vugrd that

c n afford to pay. And this all came about with the Indians, use

to dance and the children, by talking to all the Inc ns and even the children
rj ----L-------C-.. ---~.T.--~ .i~--L --r1151_IZ-~-- ~.I-1 U;*~~--*~-


And I think this is'the most extensive program hain within the center. We

have arts and crafts program aed l -,'4 .ke'



B: How many do you have participating in your job education?

: We had two separate classes. We ha4 a ______ ,we had I think it was three

or four that came to the regular and then we had the tr-ee-r four well advanced

students who Cnul 'dioj ,',i!-And we had about 89 .

B: What thought would you like to leave with us?

S: Thptght-, the thought that I would like to leave that anyone in North CArolina that

has any idea of or has any plans of coming to Balrimore-unles-, unless they really

have their heart sent On it that they,-they-really,-they-have a good substantial

income or if they have any income at all that they can live in North Carolina I

suggest that they wo4ld live in North Crolina 4hs s ones thet- younger

children coming up thatthis place, I know that getting all ofer the world

now'but this place is one of the worsty place in the world for anyone to come to

raise a family. so)my suggestion is to work, fheow-e to keep qieir family it) a

ase safer place and a better place to live than this city.

B: What thought would you like to leave with us Miss Rosa?

R: Could I leave something?



"R: TI. hj saet ri.... ai nm.... W, what does an Indan look like? Lots of times

people ask we have lots of people comA in the cetner and people ut on the street,
)





20.




they sa; ask you what you are, what kind of quetons" \/eA Ckja ,y a h.Sy yt V4

.''/ /)you d j like an Ind1An and this is something that we use quite a lot 0 identify

"ui.a MrPRr. iAad.-o I have often ha. t, but he doent look Ikdain.

c lve often wondered what an 2JdI-an is suppose to look like. To an outsider he

probably looks like the Hollywood version but how many people ee-know. e
t heeknow. 610
met people from all tribes. Some of were handsome, some haA blond hair and blue

eyes, some ha4 dark eyes and straight black BiiniA To me they are all ldianse

ot because of their physical make up or because they haveSroles stating that they

are Indians. But because he is interested in what happens to Lia people-wvhr /L.

suffer wherever y.j e-o em- suffer. He enjoys himself when he is around his

own peopleant /Ndain looks like an Inqk)n, not from the outside but from the

inside where it really count-f, I think we have enough discrimination from the

outside, Uw y pfr-c4ic'tSmong ourselves. An Indcjn is an Ind c"nno matter what he

looks like. The problem is not the kids but rather)the problem of the person who

makes this statement, but he doesn't look EInd-at. It makes no difference what he

looks like as long 'as our heatts and our feelings look Ind*j.

B: Another girl who just walked, would you come over please? N what is your name?

J; Vivi\an Jacobs.

B: ,Vivian Jacobs, Miss Jacobs do yogu work here at the center?

3: Yes, I do.'

B: Are you on the payroll?

J: Yes, Il am.

-B-: Are you fulltime?

J; Yes, amf.

-B: How',any fulltime employees do you have here?

J: Four.

B: Four?

3; Yes-.





21.




B: Who are they? ,

J: Mrs. c4i BTw= Hunt, Mrs. Elizabeth Locklear, and Mr. Herbert Locklear/A' -.

B: Course ) was not counting Mr. Herbert as a full time employee becauseje-Y; working

down in social services although he is director. Is that right?

J: Yes.

B: What do you do Miss.Jacobs?

J: I work as a neighborhood developpo3 inspector. KE) more or less yeu-Cbsw- work

yefnT w out in the field

B: What do you do out in the field?

J: Well -e-no we have tad the registration. I have 0 l '
? 'i V t o vote, and NL n that they get to the polls, to vote.

B: How-4id;o-y -rhow do you hew-de-.yd help to get them registered to vote?

J: Well. pe., '"J -dT) different places- where they can go4.gwW0eow to register.

B: Is it pretty hard to get them to go?

J: Yes it, is.

B: What .Zkt excuse do+hey give you?

3: Well-th!7, they dbn e want to get involved, in-yvaknow, theLr not doing anything

for .s anyway, and they just n want to get involved.

B: They figure their vote wouldn't'mean much help, right?

J; Right.

B; Is this a community action agency here Miss Rosa?

R: Yes it is.

-B: Why.$. is it? What do they do? WSt you get funds from them?

R: Yes,

B: From the city of Baltimroe?

R: Right. Tf )ocdrxtt7y-is funded by the city and partially by federal dunds so out

salary and our tent is paid by c'dity-agey.

B: Do you get any funds from any other place /hat amounts to anything?





22.



R : Yes we get a lot of funds and donations but the oRter funds that we get in vge
or' rAfij
for the center C.A.A. the ee4r funds we get from them isszeet some ,-r
,r or
recreation funds and S, i programs but the other m6ney that C,'` _-programs

donate to us is--I usejto run the Indian center programs alone.

B: Mr. K '.' ^ Smith what did you do back home before you came to Baltimroe?

S': Farmer..

B: You were a farmer?T.-Did you enjoy farming?

S: Oh)yes, I wish I had the C.lt to go back at it.

B: For the same money you' rather farm?

S: Oh ye!5.

B: How many people here,, married white among the Lumbees?



S: Quite a few.

B: Quite a few?

: Well)at least you think they married. You know, khWyot-kew what they aall

it? Living together?

B: Living together.



B: You have more living together.

S: Common law marriages.

B: Common law-marriage than actually married?

S& : Yes.

B: Do you know of any who actually married in a church wedding? Do you know one

case up here where Indian married a white in a church wedding?

: Miss Adt Ada Hunt's girl. Ye, HIe-wa; he was a polish. ,

S. )Clara Hammon's daughter.





B: Do you have any cases of them living with them for while and then you see-them





23.



broken up and maybe got tSemencth.r -e?

: Ys. .J e quite a few guys that .went- SeSin- lJi-cO os Indian

girls came up from North CArolina and they)ar you know starting to hang around

them. But they must have found thatEe;aU*pow-'a they waryri l-m p a

were #' .F that you kn and went back to their fag s/

B: \rU x' T'\ 7' ?Would like to say thattmore peop when you go out

out of the city even L^-7C I i J ( i' 'C- bC irQ people

do recognize the 4f ans more now! than they did say five years ago.

B: What was it like when you first came here, Mr. Smith? 19 years ago.

S: Well ), let me put it t-si way in juaL one wori When I first came here it was

almost theFy you could say, when you walki.i down he street well I seen an

Indi, an today. And in in this .6,( 1
Indian today. And in in this .\ ioit g, i- s got more like when you walk

on the streets/it' more like well I aIe a white person today in other words

The Inchs have gathered up here so.in other words there was a period; of
-'ll:_,t* years ^ -.j 'n /iS ^~
.5 years k ? J and the reason th"i in this
i U5 Yo jC-V\
zone I suppose i, because the rent and the the living C'7r AJ) -- I
mo, '5-y : t i-f
<"R lOYut of this zone,because I ak e r.telets 13 ei'-t ,'
V w f,.$225 to $250 a-month for rent, for just a 'regdar house, thee-ywget.

B: Are you living in apartment?

S: No, I have a house.

B: You have a house. Why do youArent for your house?

S: Well pay $100 a month,

B: What do most people pay here in this community for an apartment here an Broadway

Street? Or BPlti e Street?
\20
i: ; pay $bM a month.

B: $120 a month. How-many rooms?

; Four rooms and a bath.

B: Where is your apartment?







24.


`: ; on Broadway.

B: On Broadway. I-s-right nice .apartment?

: Well it'so t you know nice enough- r 'Ut 6 y&-iilif- ya y knw

pretty comfortable place.

B: 0 5Q What do you-pay for rent?
-", y ten(-, be e
: Well I-m i'.. S vi /s//y/becausee)re in kind of a nice situation right

now we have a 15 room house on Broadway. One of the older mansions

B: 15 room house?

: 15 room house with a full basement and a backyard. How we came about it, the

hndrofg A worked here at the methodist church, is rmnd )6O) with his whole

ly, And thereIover there for two years which('is .AKtill)173 and I

know, d--they just want us to live in their house, because 1-

--g as-MM_ A'-'_:.-^.-', until they cqme back so we only t.av 50

dollars, a month, for the house

B: Yobre'lucky, a big hotel bill, every

night'

: .. family house that w e living in



B: They are white?

: They are white the whole family is white.

B: Where are they from?

: -, no)the mother is from Cal4I nia and the father I think home is in

New York but the yve been living here

B: ae. they (& '^^6 I ideo C



B: ,. And where Ahat child now?

:es off with the family.

BY tl, what was the name 6f the child?





25.



:The child(s name is Eifj // now as far as sheir+- by s name, ip we don

know /,,AS h,7./f

B: They adopted trme childiji from the adoption agentaaaat?

: No they adopted this child from a girl that lived anBroadway Street but they never

told any of us her mame. Thtssomething we donI-t talk about.

B: The-aby, yaou dn',t-,know the girls name?

:No they took the child from the hospital.
/: ~ '1 -5 W a I -Th^ 4 kr
B: -T rY V 5i j t- It Was sormc* an agent?

: Right. South to North CArolina twice. Even though .-ri .ea s nly four

': now, and they took her down when*)was just a little oJer than a year old to

->-! tell her later that they had taken her to her-home which isANorth CQ-olina.

B: ( -.-.. (. Jacovs what are you doing with those

beads? 9

J QJ -making a C( / b( K tll +)nd

B: Are you going to have some art, craft work on display at the Baltimore fair tomorrow?

;,: -Miss Rosa?

R: Tes we are. Wihave something that we( ve ordered because the bead work is

kind of swuw caSdwe cn make it that fast and we hae a lot that we id w-ed


B: Test-i- ne,.two.,, testing-one t.wa4-_-esting-one- two, testing. I have-! __
now. N ,havewere off of these
now. Now we re off-of these---wait a minute I did& have---were off of these

now. Here at the American Indian Center' altimores ith Mr. Herbert

Locklear the director. Mr. Locilear, suppose you tell us a little something

t the history f the clter? i''''

L: American Indain 'Sudy. Center was oncieved a in 68. At which time we began for

purposes of $l i t pwCL go we could get together and talk and s9f and

learn more about the American Indian _and a-he=, other.

things, that we have discovered at this point the school department hot been





26.



CeAtiinhgjbre. Baltimroe, we felt like kids had a real for this kind of

teaching and initially it was our intention -t teaching this kind of material,

however we soon learned that the need of the American Indian in Baltimoreti'//

[ a ( 1sh broader than that Aincludisg that plus t;-w re gg g therefore we

Sgot very QYtr/clOJp alout trying to broaden our scope and to incEease

our pxagam to include any of the social factors that tgo was neccessay,so there-.

fore, we went to work to try to .provide a unity tm the center w 5j1 C

American Indi s could come and for advice, counseling ad ag t job referrals

ferrals to public health services, and other sae A services, WCl p' lf r Ji f ;r

BAltine ity. And consequently, we opened this place officially in April of

1970 and then fa" between August of/;j69 and April ofl70Ite had one room 1e

provided here for us by the iirlbd^i arrish.

W: What are soie of the probtirs that yohave going now Mr. Locklear?
Yl ..,; l0 ., 1 t !
L: Essentially, our program results around our cultural training as we indicated

was the purpose of our beginning. And this is help on Tutesday night. This is

a program where y young people, adults and children get tog hter to sing Ind

songs and do Indian dances)and to study along with that a suplimentary history

S American Indn, sort of a pan Indian fashion, no tribalisis or no.

particular tribe in society/but American Indian's especially contemporary America*,

now'-H t addition to thal we have an on going recreational program whEre we.have

room set aside wLith a pool table, ping pong table, and other .

where children come down in the evening and-a, after noon and evening and play

tng h s- under supervision, mostly by an older boy or gir> af the groups ha

CU Ti\ VP/ We We ht recreation type program because we find

that the kids are not getting F to the -bf5 of recreation facilities)wbam=U

P9h-need a place to go in the afternoon and evening. If addition to that/pwe
'maintain a library where we have a ood deal of resource O/wingjl OCn Id/jQOS

and also research materials andAajot of periodicals other kids of thasga





27.



-I -f l vil he ep ys rl I !4 fr15fe to learn more about
a R^/^^ fc t V <. t--o^ it -l /g
the Ame,,4h Tndi.,a'and to have place to study and-a -lace-to probab! V

noisy apartment might be a little crowded, not s tudy," Te

maintainour two adul4 education Jcss program one for xy'I / and the other

for e-UtCtIo t pfe c'rt *, iY '" H we maintain a sewing 4-4i..aiin

class for adult women young girls. We do arts and crafts of all forts and-all

.\ PC I we have three different arts and crafts Q0' .; d=ehe arts and
--^ --^ (^"'**"*"y ,(*arts and
crafts that are Indian:. hopfy` cEered we have arts and crafts tMESBaz ey

for-t young boys and girls. ALNT ;' we have arts and crafts that appeal
q
more to the young teenage boys and girls such as pottery and those ofppottery

wheel. In addition to all of this active thiAgewe have maintained a service of

', 'C adviCe counseling, i and 'r e r psis of referral5-ts-eduat- e-services
we do some h as b Tcon

we do some outreaching fSew t community such as problem easngiad golf'to.

home tr discover bat the problems are ar- what they are, /rytag to develop or
4-n KI i L4o c C h f ./. v o/
utilize the resource th such as Voter registration,
/?oh
V)4( education and we do a good deal of exchange type programs at the at
t.^ B;' aE? community. ['-'of /,,?' :.:| & : ,' .. ,; '., J

7* 7 CV Notth. Qrolina. And put on public performances te-help both in 0 u K
(k9 ,~j ") "4 -t Y, ...
public relations and also help ) communig&e and 1elps to get along, with each
"., -ro .'''' s ,' t, u: n4f? /,>.. ,,.
others -Relpf" the people a,. a-i.___itt _n_,a _pL?___

"rS- non-Indain'

B: -,r, Locklear, tAlking with some ofj e people who came4tie into the center this

afternoon, I asked the question, would they .rte the .paople *back home in

Robeson County4/fo come to Baltimroe. What is your answer to this question?

L: I dont/know if I would actually be guilty of advising people from comrg to

Baltimroe,





28.



However. think Baltimore is much more attractive to family life for the lAdiar


ay the efforts of this center, efforts of the 44vt to bring about an

organization 6 n'OYd4,nfIcqflIndian people. ASih)[ 4o r y IndaniasE

identity and to provide a place where the Indians can meet and congregate

together. This is different then what s5iL happen in the past that's why

I think more condusive to living here family then and has been. Neyer heless, I

still think that something sort of acaxad about living in CO_'__ _- s samller

communities and neighborhoods and unless one feels that moving to Baltimore would

actaully inhance his family life. or social economic life in some kind of way,

I would not necessary encourage it but then on the.ontrher hand I do ink

would overly f.J:-.')' A C J!'.
o0 Vbu
D: Sr-y -fel 1*'j\ C a,\] Robeson County home?

L: Robeson County is home. be home. Home especially and as far as
0
emot ions are concerned this is where I was raised up, I l(ve the country. I

have not gotten away from it, ('don'- want to get a*&y from it. Maostymany ties

are still there but mc .. :iLem tha -J=h I r many wonderful ties and many

wonderful relationships here in Balm ee too butKits not home as such. I feel
S) s tC) h
that Baltimore is a good place to hang ones hat, and to make a living and to stay

and you can raise children .CEe right kind of efot-her aYbut one day I have the

same tag that most people 4kot ae -liig back to Robesonf r

D: What is thprant population of Baltimore and could you give me any figures of

what it was say five years ago, or ten years ago or fifteen or twenty, do you have

anything at all on this?

L: I suppose you mean the Indan population?

D: Yes, Indian population.

L: The Indn population now I belieVe is leveled off at close to 3,500-4,000. I think

4,000 would not be an exaggerated figure and we just not basing this on opinions






29.




necessarily, we are basing it upon, of-turse a surVey and some intelligence

that we have gathered, the 1970 census, I believerregiaked some where in the

area, 2,700 and we know that many did not register and manytlSt didzeccessarily

register as Indan especially in those situations where i there was a -Bar

in terms of racial identity or as far as marriages are concerned. I belieVe that

the population here in Baltimore has fluctuated as high as maybe 5,000 gs L---

at some given point, that is to say Ci'-" ai1 iws here right after

school lets out down sou h and many people come to Baltimre seeking employment, many

dooI t-find it and then return. If we can-nit \o-JL transieipts, say under

.ia' I'a J., I would say that we flunctuate up.Jg J SfS at some point throughout

kthe year1 but Jait for our purposes we count resident s1ALa ha -ty

60 days.

D: Do,.d4 the IRdians here consider themselves Lumbee Indians or Baltimore Indians?

L: I think it would be fair to say now that we are Lumbee bred and born ad -B

tWA Lumbee At least as far'a convictions are" concerned,

I think I undersNd some of the deba&ee-p( the questionr before the inspection

jthe center, agr .--- rPl-Z

IndcTc~in jf Lumbee IndianrSy saw in the paper such comments as T

Indians from Robeson Countyf'N6rth CArolina, or Qianor gust plain American

Indian but now we see in print quite often) Lubbee Indans and most of us are quite
ConCep+for,
pround of that. I would say that ,htis kssaanLaeeson of Lumbee Indians as a tribal

group has advanced quite rapidly here in Baltimore and if you'i permit me to say so
-Ck
iu j of course, I think yaows ____ down in Robeson becasue(weve

had motivation for it (WOfCWiii0S/ strive towards helping the people to

appreciate what they are, to accept what they are and to move out from there on

a good solid basis, and we believe that people are betting bck a* *to st ightenAout

and the l7$ils of themself and they're, capitalizing among it and--tSf makenlife

-muchb easier for themselves,





30.



D: I believe you worked with social welfare is this corrdctin addition to the

center? A4-t" quesTt n-es doy5ou, would you say that you have more or less of

the Lumbee *hians fr-e the welfare roll then say the average non-Indian, white

or black here in Baltimroe?

L: P s the first part of your question,-that isycorrect I been with the

Baltimroe city department of social services,now at one time welfare since..

been in Baltimore for twelve years. The service celebrated my twelfth a versery

last month. /J'm/in charge of the centralized applications for family over there and

I put that part in only ta=sc^=of= as my credentials for whatCV. about to say-.a

in terms of the _' _of applications and also because -tbe pfdet=fthe

Ahmicain Indian. I know personally that-2 years ago you probably could have

counted the American Indian who was receiving public assistance and any kind of

public services in Baltimore city on two hands. Now we have more receiving it and

we hav ore receiving it because e -we have more that ought to receive it. qe have

--i k people who have always been entitled and elligable for these services and

"U,);'did n't apply for them)- now beginning to get soet of get educated to thel

point that there is a public community type service that they as Ijdians helped

to support j#ustpeverybody else do when they are working.therefore when they are

not working due to illness or unemployment or whatever purpose)then they aee entitled

to the same kind of public support and services that everyone else is. So we do

a ot of encouraging people and helping people7"o w_____ Lh Mey are legally,

eiti-led to receive, and oacemore what is Ii4.i ( Qig\ rq'ic\ i So where as

right now we have more ITdians on public, receiVing public services in Baltimore

city then ever before we4have a very low ratio as compared to the total population,

ar non-Indian population would say we have less than 2% of American I ians

receiving public services of the total Ifdian population of Baltimore. J &vc nro
1,V- ^0^& ^ M -NC
*j n C (
blacks and around 6% for the whites.

D: How do you account for this among the I(Aians -i oi_ __Kci?





31.



L : It is my opinion that part of it is culturally based as well as

of Indian having found ways of meeting his own problems, th J0 J .5r c t-f into,

introvertedly within.his own clan his own community, the system back in North

Carolina whoe-ee- if we need something we go over to our neighbor and she helps us

out or we have benevolent attitude for one another and love for one another, we

make ageatr effort to help one *pother and also there is this great big thing

about pride and people Being hesitating to ask anybody including asking anybody

outside of the Idiin community for help. And tere most reluctant to do it.

"Wee ran into problems where Indians would even apply for any unmplo yment

benefits that they are legally entitled to receive. This is not .h*ae-:. da ialt
i>
nCesifiJ/so I think those are some of the reasons why the ratio is lower

among the American Indian.

D: You have a better system here in Baltimore if th e entitled to the services,

they ean probably get them with less trouble then in Robeso county. Would you say

yes to that? I

L: Yes, definitely.

D: September Ms23, 1971)here at the American Indian Center this is a continuation

of a tape with Mr. Herbert Locklear, the director. Mr. Locklear, how wo4ld you

compare today with previoqsP years as far as the Baltimore communityf3Ir -

being receptive to the Lumbee Indians and their programs and so forth, ifji some of

the things that there trying to do and the cooperation that the re getting Fm

the city and so on? /

L: First there's one of our biggest areas in which we ve had some of our big

___ and also ha en j% k JiC in this area since 12 years ago

they sci-tary-Eoe the discrimination PRS what have you was quite / I ,(SP 1'1" ^l

k-j community. It was not unusual to see signs hanging on the door such as white trade

only or no Indians allowed. And this kind of thing. The news media in describing

instdence5in which Indians were involved were very careful to point that it was

an Indian person and they contin4l this long fiter (it'seen popular not to





32.



Sd:',l ,W I& 'k C .o"h It was only just recently) last year when we prevailed

(kh. the uay newspaper to discontinue this kind of adverse publicity especially

when they were not doing this for any other p erson, majority or minority group.

We j$/ have faced many hostilities by reason of a collected IR n,, f in

Baltimore. It was first popular at one time for the news media to capitalize on

poverty and congested family living and life styles of the Indians and this kind

of thing, and projected this on almost on the verge of being barbaric d Yrq --P'_r

and almost to the point where Iydians became very, very reluctant

to public exposure, very relu ctant Lo being __15C _____in print, most hestitate

-ig to gOt involved in any kind of public expression or their feelings or what
have youand this is one of the problems that we faced when we began the center

here was getting people involved and one of the reasons was people were afraid jf

of the kind of respect and non-respect that the y dld get from the non-Indian

community. Fortunately most of this has been changed. I would say for a number

of reasons, one pjamary of which is because of our outreach program that

spoken to before going into the 6non-I1ghn community and having them see us,

relate to us, on a basis that here 2-fore has been unfamiliar to them, in addition

to that maintaining an i open door policy here at the ckeer for Indians and non-

Indians to come togehter to discuss out questions, to rap about things in general,'

in addition to tha) e'veyAnw ma made many efforts of out-
reach )JW the police department has been very receptive in terms of programing,

fRe conducting of the c n1r. For example, this center we had, this summer we

had the southeastern police 'eqcor- coummity relations division come into the

center add almost __ _u for two weeks, to along with our children,

sponsored excursions trips over to -. D. C. Arlington, Virginia and other

places. eve een downtown several times in the majors office. 4e'v prevailed

along with the P) O ^Wt of parks and recreation for their employing Indians,

getting Idians into the various program. Mije gone and talked to many people





33.




about the treatment of IndianS including the diwi-stin of police and hi W wf

who has by the way been here, at the-center, was part of our official opening

ceremony. e'vd communicated our needs and desires to open up operations, community

public and private oxa.seis throughout the city and consequently people know

and understand us from a different point of view. An I'd/ ike to add as evidence

that the nonTudain camminity has mellowed in its attitude and is very supportive

to us now. As avi den e-ef-T e po3ttat--ha-t hea--e--t C f wo-yeare this

c'nsopatnion. j- e-ere.practically--e",gairMas evidence of this the first

couple of years of our operation here, we were just primarily trying to get

funded. We raised some where in the area of $20,000, .Tgifts and rtributions,

-mostly from church or civic organizations and most mf it from private

individuals also. Mf course, nqw we have some public funding but we still get

private contributions such as week from the Presbaterian center's here in

Baltimore. We've got a grant of $5,000 and the community is quite receptive

here, very supportive, and I might add as far as volunteering help goes and

expertise and operating our program most of our help comes from the non-Indian

Community and more expertise, of conducting programs comes from the non-Indian

community, tha s-no in e against our Indian community because we on' yet

have the expertise in Baltimore for many of the things that we would like to do.

D: -P--- .. ..... Mr. Locklear, Wl the drmp out rate, ee14-yveu.,

do you have any statistics on this, any comparative statistics and would you

say something about the school system and so forth.

L: The public school system in Baltimroe city has not been very responsive to many

of the ethnic community, community of the ethnic group living here in Baltimmee.

The Ihdian is no exception to this and I might say there has been more neglectt

and regard to the INdAii than any :other ethnic group. One of the reasons, that

the school officials or administrative staff feels toward the ethnic race is that

the I'_Wdians are not proficient in number to warren specific programs or





3.4




_J_ _j_ _that would include the Idian per say gr any J i' V .However,
i / "7
we take -_5 f__ i_C_ too bad because the Indians are not compensated

throughout Baltimroe city ,hey're concentrated within one locale nid we're-not

talking about the Baltimore City Public School system per say but about certain

schools located within the Ildian community and we believe that there, it-would
( the numbers f-specZR-fi to justify C cJF.1f J-' programs. w-re-o-

continueing our efforts in this and i e-' ertianly noto _O_ 1 .

But. so far the school system just has not been rensive to our needs specifically)

although they have'showing some indication of a willingness to develop study -

type programs along with us and to.Aep us involved in developing programs that

will meet the Feeds of INlian children plus other children who need to learn about

Ipdians. Now thasze-we'vd produced -awt too few high shcool graduates since the

Indains have been here in Baltimroe city, as matter of fact,-since to my

knowledge, last year we had one or two graduates. The year before that I think

two, and te- he e -beoaPa 4' 'e three years ago, we had none at all. itis

year we hope to have four,and possibly five Indian graduates and I see the

possib]6t)t the potentialZof this number increase as the years pass. On& of

the reasons wh* the dropout rate has been almost 100%e among Iddian kids in

Baltimnroe city public schools is the real conflict and tsey--re still having Ig in 7

their homes, they learn that they ace Indians and togo behave anas they siatul

however, i the public schools -a e involved with non-Indians, and again

' -,, in the classroom where.,they, e involved with non-Indians and especailly

non-Indian teachers and wearUig-conventional type American Indn history taught,

and to t the very least in being as kind as they know how to be, as uncomplentary

to the Aj imcan ltdain, it,'s.,certainly incomplete way of this accomplishment and

contribution to American life. The IndL n boy or girl becomes.,,yrustrated and

becemtes doubtful about his identity and questions in himself whether or not he

really wants to be an ilDian ana-L1e eraCUe C'L.a And they get





35.




frusated and they stop school for that reason ^I SQP- Now again o Se s/-I

-1 nnai-AMs aPiMd'e some evidences of improvf1 in this and we can believe

S .agL eaM e primarily on the Jfact that the Indian is being J

out but The center has served by and large

to feafill the gap created in the Indian kids life, by providing him an Indian

experience as it were that the Q4ool system asnot providaT. ,I believe that-'s

oneof the reasons we have been as well received by the local government and MeR&

by the public agencies as we have because wVy-on that point that we have our

strongest argument and w, on that point that our community action agency and

other agencies are willing to fund our effort to meet a need that is not

otherwise being met by the Indian yI04AS 't rLtU Ct7.

D: Now most of the Lumbee's of Baltimroe aren't church going people are they?

L: Unfortunhakyy most of them are not. However, most of them are just like a lot

of Lumbee Indians their.past experience has been one of church

C 0 just -_ J_ CA_ i But unfortuntly having gone to the

city they lost that relationship and have not reestablished it. We do have

an established church, not c ides, a well

organized church, and it is a church, located in South Baltomore,^we have just

required a church school bus and we hope to put on the street this week. To

transport people to and from that location because it is sort of difficult for

people to get to our service and back if they do not have private transportation.

But 1w making an effort to improve and to change that, to get those people who

*ill come to church an opportunity to go and Of (O"V- .

D: The organization of the american Indian, Center here in Baltimore ?

L: We have a staff of 3 positions right now. We call my, k- position one half

because everybody indicated thewgrBave I have a fulltime job /I'c-I"Ocoming

here on 6 in the evening, 5'130 and work until 10 to 10:30 at night. Tend to most

of the written reports and things of this sort and /4 .i- ti m and also,





36.



help to conduct programs Xa J y;' :' In addition, -wab&a.,we

are an incorporAtion 6tl _____ incorporation called the American Indian

Study Center4 Incorporated, we have a board of five people, all of whom are

Lumbee Indn and 2-have recently scheduled monthly meetings for the purposes

of conducting policies.
D:S Cto .

L: Yes, Reverend James Dial, who is pastor of our church, is chairman of the board.

Mrs. Essie Chavers, who is a house wife and al s employed is on the board. Mrs.

Francis Locklear, housewife and employed is on the board. Mrs. Ernie Oxendine,

who is chief cook at oneof the local r staurants on the board. Mrs, Calvin

S who is on.ehe board a4so is,. 2oand that the local chevrolet plant, so

tht', tht 'sor five board members, in addition to that w ave special assitanto

A/A who is a Puma Indian from Arizona, 1? I call him a special

assistant be se he is charge of one of our music programs here in the focal

part of the program. We have then several volunteers who come in to help run the

program, and to conduct programs. We have some je) \ ____ people,
e2" ,e' me 'l2' help conduct programs, help keep the place clean and in order.

and help .us _, .------ in a1e way6, by and large we like to keep this a

community type effort and 1Ye4V as much as possible.

D: Thank you Mr. Locklear. It appears that, from seen already that the center

S_____________have meant ery much for the

community and that brought about certain A JLy Now I would like for

you to to direct me to some of the homes of the that we might help some of the

people. I am interested in talking to someone who came here years and years ago.





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