Title: Interview with Mrs. Amanda Carter (October 16, 1971)
Full Citation
Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00006839/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Mrs. Amanda Carter (October 16, 1971)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: October 16, 1971
Subject: Urban Lumbee
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00006839
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Urban Lumbee' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: UL 33

Table of Contents
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Full Text


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UL 33 A Transcribed 1/14/77; C.H,R.
Subs: Amanda Carter/ On the Spot Interviews
at the Baltimore City Fair
Int: Adolph Dial

D: September the twenty-fourth, Baltimore Maryland, Aouph Dial speaking. We're

here with all the little Lumbees, getting ready for the parade, Make a little

noide here! Shake a ei. Shake a leg! This is the second year of the Baltimore

city fair, and the Lumbee Indians here at the American Indian Center, du, ;hey

have met here at the American Indian Center and heyre getting ready to down

and take part in the parade, did you take part in the fair last year?

(voice) Yes, we did.

D; T4t the first time?

V: Yes.

D: Of course that was the first year of the center being in operation. How old

are you?

T: Four.

D: What's your name?

T: Tammy.

D: Tammy what?

T: xaM Tailor.

D: Tammy Tailor? iou going to be in the parade? (hts)a beautiful costume you have

on, Do you like being Indian? Talk. Say something,

T: Uh...

D: Say I like being Indian,

T: I like being Indian.


D: Alright. What-ls-your-name?-

Urchin:----. -

D: What' s your name?

S: Sophie Lynn.


S -Sephe--Ltnn.

D; -ay?--

S Sophir-Lt7ym r!



D: Sophie Lynn, Sophie Lynn, how old are you? Four? You getting ready, yet-going

to be in the parade? Who made your costume?

S: My momma.

D: Your momma? Who made yours?

Urchin: My momma.

-D; ^^5TIp-her?


D: Did you help her any? e-t-snrep hM'ad--tale!

U: Yes.

D: You, you did? (To another) What is your name?

W: Wilburt.

D: Wilburt what?

W: Cremus.

D: Cremus? And what is your name?

L: 'Etty Leef Locklear Junior,

D: Etty Lee LocklearJunior, How old are you?

L: Seven.


D: How old are e, Framin?

KR F: Seven.

D:;(ui-.-both-seven. __K, you have a beautiful outfit on there, nw hatr-gaeTOttJig

r.ady-todo? Where you Aent you going to take part in the parade?

L: Yes.

D: JJu-M. L-et-Le-see-yoau-jumpupand-make-.-a-tt-e- noe-so-we-can -ecord-it here.


Kids: Jingle,-j ingle ,thuhumpthp.


Kids: "-Jingle-jingle.

D: -Ar-rg-.-Maa--Mak--i-ft-At noise.

Child: -l-ain-t--got-no-- I-ain't got no" things!

D: u n have e-Is?--Altight. In this crowd here this morning)is Locklears,

Davis, Cardin, Framin, and Jacobs, and Faris,...

E: Elmore!

D: A-fIh. Now hat's your name?

F: Genet Ears.tr-'"

D: Are you married?

F: No.

D: And are you from North or South carolina?

F: South Carolina.

D: Where in South Carolina?

F: cr kcf. __l South Carolipp)c

D.-----.. .----- .......---- South 'Cailiha,

D: Dot you have many of the people here from South Carolina, many of the Lumbedes

from South Carolina?


F: No. Not many of them,

D: About how many of them would you say ;S here from South Carolina? The Lumbees.

F: About thirty of them. Twenty, thirty,

D: Twenty and thirty children in all?

F: Yes.
D: In other words)you-kew all the people heretfrom South Carolina.

F: Just about.

D: Your kin still in South Cavolina?

F: Ifrkin.ya.2

D: Have you always lived in South Carolina?

F: Yes.

D: Asere'djou attend school?

F: McCarti High.

D: Did you ever g to the Lumbee school down there?

F: No.

D: FAirview? You never did?

F: No.

D: Did you always go as whites, so to speak, in South Carolina?

F: Yes.

D: Uh4tEi. Are you all in school here? How old are you? Ihat s your names?

J: Jack Freeman.
D: And l, Janet, hat's your name?

Jet Freeman.

D: And what grade are beoB of you in?

U: )in the ninth,

D; ",i o i+in the ninth.

J: I'm in the eighth.


D: lMamcrPr-h e-eighth And how do you like school here?

J: Fine.

D: Would you rather be here/, or in Robeson county? Here? And you call home here

or Robeson county home?

J: Robeson county.

D: Would you rather be here than in Robeson? Have-you-always-lived-here?-

C; Uh-4tuh. i, .

D: Hozw longyou been here?

C: About a year.

D: About a year? You like it better that Robeson?

C: -p-) CXCjc Vo \\'-. ___ _, y3' 1ka6wi. .

D; You
J: The same.

D: You hope to return home someday?

J: No. I don't) rraA ,.ie\-o live down there. I like to go down and visit my

uH, relatives.

D: Why ) you like to live down there, Where'dou live in Robeson?

J: Fayetteville.

D: Feuyetfev iv. And ou'd)rather live here?

J: Now; yah, I like to live up here y nWaumw because I have places to go and things

to do.

D: Like what?

J: Join here and dance with the Indians, you-know, and there was no place to stay down

there o (-.. -

D: Do you enjoy the Indian center?

J; Ye sir.

D: Uh-hMi. Where did you live in Robeson county?

C: Vo.|-^>< rv. \< \cA < C{ '''- t (


D: Oh, you both live in Fayettevil&e.

C: Ub-tr. M.Q> *

D: How do you compare the schools here with the schools in Fayetteville you

attended? CWhere'd_,you attend in Fayetteville?

C: ya, Cumberland Road school.

D: Where,-both-of you Cumberland Road Schools-? How do you like the schools here?

C: They're'fine)but easier here.

D: Easier here?

C: Uh-h4tt r <

D: Do you learn as much?

C: Yesir.

D; You learn as much or more here than you did in Fayetteville?

C: About the same.

D: Well)what do you mean when you 4say ey'r) easier?

C: Well...

D: Huh?

C: cV V n.-d as t is down htere.

D: The work' not as hard as it is down there. Maybe you're not getting as much.

What about the white boys and girls, do they treat you better here or better

in Fayetteville?

C: About the same.

D: About the same? How about the blacks?

C: No, sometimes they c\ u e l e- -4 making fun like we did coming down the
e^ some fothem started-4-'
setfeieylaughing at us and all.

D: UJJ, some of the blacks? What about the whit6 do they make fun,too?

C: No, they just stare.

Dl--.hey--jst--starre -ba.


D: What do you have to say about this?

J: The same, -.. --.- hey stare \'-gc Sor \a o-_ home.

D: U-hi. Okay, thank you, On our way,,ea -ou way to the ih,; to the nh-, -4aee rcy>

where-the-parade-is-to-takeplaccep-mos-ot, Most of the students here are
Pima- ,
trained by a sxalxmf Indiansy Avery Lewis, w -p-- l p lA g u?

Voice: Yes.

D: How long have you been doing the Indian dances?

V: I guess about two years,

D; You think you have someone trained well enough now that they can soon go on

their own with other new groups?

V: I think so, lets hope so.

D: ui-hm- Visited a church last night here Qi, a very beautiful church, , c

church, but a very beautiful church. I understand that pr-haR-psp-' ucir-'ttrctes

thereas-only a couple in the United States, s maybe three wi, all-Indian

churches, outside of tf, Bown Robeson way, I understand you have one in Philadel-

phia, and one in Baltimore, and one in Greensborough, Nm4ot Carolina. Getting

ready for the parade here,this is a black band. All three races participating

here today, we have the Lumbee Indians, we-4ave a bgick band,'white band, -ee

couple-of-big elephants here. How long have you lived in Baltimore?

Voice: Oh,f l been here my life.

D: h,( what's)the reputation of the Lumbee Indians here now?

V: Oh, a lot better that whawds (its'/been, you people have their arguments and

D: Uh,-hui. Are things getting better?

V: Slowly.

D: How many do you estimate to be here?

V: Oh...


D: Four thousand maybe?

V: I(don3 think there are quite that many. I (elj t know has many tfiae are,

but I don't Ithink there are quite that many, But theylre/by and large a pretty

quiet group.

D: Cr t ....e 4eNht Carolina,



D: r. -',r ( 0 -oon the et side of the Ford Foundation

doing a history of the Lumbee Indians if, you have ;i, approximately 4000

Lumbee Indians here i14 u, in this city, .a, do you know about these people?

V: I know about them)but not as familiar with them perhaps as I should be.

D: JSl-hmnr

V: I know they'rehere.

D: Um-hm. Do you recall anything at all about them?

V: No.

V: -UM-Tim.

D: Senator seems to be very interested in the black kids ia, lots of them are

shaking his hadd, he spending quite a bit of time with them,

) D: recommendation ? No, not really, Just &pe.
history, e-hh. Ua3 -

?; Well, good luck.

D: U, thank you. Senator Bell. I wonder if you know about the Lumbee Indians

in the city of Baltimore? V4, have you been here very long? b4L asked a lieutenant

chief of the police force about the Lumbee Indians and he wouldd' say anything.


He claimed that he wldn' talkto me because he didn't) know I had the tape

recorder in my hand, So he walked away without commenting, Caiload of

blacksjust arrived,th, among the blacklI see Joe ZajSt, ist-t ijAs right,

that is Joe F ? This is a pretty big parade i, you see the YoLt r .
five horses Zr the U.S. Army, the First U.S. Army Band, FtdjMaryland, uh,

Joe Frasier, '9, and other dgiataries t up. Senator Bell just came by

a while ago and Nhi wanted to talk to me some more, and wanted to know about

this project, Wanted to know if+t was going to make any recommendations.

Lead automobile, Mayopr Dial Ferrendo. D apostrophe a-l-e-sa-n-d-r-o and

Joe Frasier riding in the the same car. Followed by Senator Vale and Senator

Mathias. Miss Black Teenage Maryland. Baltimore Miss Soul. First two cars of

girls were atIk. Followed by little Miss Metro Baltimore, white. Coming

back to the conversation with the bh, lieutenant on the police force a while

ago, really there was no conversation, he oudnE talk to me. bS I think

this may show htat- Y, one reason for the police having such a reputation as
they have today, Ithy being a little on the stupid side. Here we go. U.S Army,

followed by the Marines. U.S. Marines. Couple of cars <3ust passed Ah, and

un, their sign read, '"his is no place to be somebody. U.S. Navy Band.

Have some Lumbee Indians here from North Carolina here in the city of Baltimore?

Voice: No, I, p6 ,was born in the city of Baltimore. j-Baltimor.u elty- Pipe

-Hnd. Big black population in Baltimore, just talking to one individual,

said if-the-blacks-would=learn-to-look-like-whitj--rather-4-han--act--ike

i9, if the blacks could learn to act like white rather than act like niggers,

91, things will be much better here in Baltimore. This individual is unidentified3
but he says eWdlived here M!RXXKXKXseventy years.

Voice; If you go up through this way, central part of the city, ou'llsee


so many houses fallen down and taken over by the city, Two years rent, ,

taxes, yw aow. And tde, the blacks don't know how to maintain their properjes.

And I an old building association man.

D: He-said the blacks don'tknow ohowt6iimintain- their properties and he's an old

building-association man.

V: Fallen down and...

D: W*Hlu.

V: ad people not living in it.

D: HigIschool band coming through.

V: What about Aem?

D: Well, have you ever heard of us?

V: What, MP, whit are they called?

D: The Lumbee Indians L-u-m-b-double-e. Sometimes they call us the Baltimore Indians.

Southern-Higi school band,-Baltimore. Black. Well, Integrated, but mostly black.

I was just thinking, the Lumbees really caught up in it here, he's)a small group,

not strong enough, politically strong, not h to be politically strong on

the city level. (He'sknd a between the devil and the deep blue sea. As I said

a moment agonoticed senator Bell seemed to be spending a lot of time with the

blacks. Patterson band, all white, two blacks. Hig school band. Lots-f-tf-lats

passing by and I'm not recording all of them. A-V-iking-ship-float. The-National

-Brewing-Company. With-six-beautiful-horses. 1885, Oneof-the-famous-ones-you

see-quite-'KM-ofteny Oh, yes, finally I see the td, Lumbee group. The Lumbee

group. One two three-four five isix seven eight nine, ten ,eleven twelve, th iteeln

fourteen fifteen, Fifteen participating, Lumbee group passing. Some lady

just said, the American Indian, isn't that adorable, I been following t Amre-ahn,

te-uiabee-Indian-group-snce-the-prad wbeenwalking KKH along the side walk.

__-_._! __ __ ~.__ _sine-the-parade-began. Black band.


with the policCe forced here, we're now down in the parade close to where the 91

where-tCien Lumbee Indians live. I asked him about uh the Lumbees, said

he didn know a whole lot about them, he knew they lived down in this area,

he never had any occasion to give any of them any tickets but once. I asked

him would he compare their crime rate with the blackjhere, and he said, no

comparison. Down here at the reviewing stand, h, the Y, Lumbee Indian

group ha gone by, I)standing next to an individual here, uh, what is your


A: Tom Adams.

D; How old are you sir?

A: Sixty-one.

D: Have you lived in Baltimore most of your life?

A: All of my life.

D: Do you know of the Indian group who lives on Baltimore streetX, and Broadway and

in that vicinity?

A: Yes)I do.

D: what comments would you make on this?

A: Simply as I told you before, I think they should\ when they moved into Baltimore

they shetld have spread out, and become part &6 various communities. They would

have been the Indians, same as the Irishmen and the Dutchmen, and as a

part of the community. Rather than stay where they are, which was in a changing

neighborhood, and itdidn't) do a thing for them, economically, socially, or in

any respect,

D; LX, what profession do you follow?

A: I'm in the tax department.

D: Xti-iParT-naoT

A: VTm-i r-lie- Tax DivT rtnimr.


D: T-e'

A: CGoletefr,

D: Collector?

A; Yes.

D: Tax collector.

Voice: When a Lumbee Indian applies for a job or a position, or a new location

to move into, they should day with pride, when they're asked what their

background is, if they are asked, they (on't have to volunteer, say I am an

Indian# very, u, seem apparn tly apologetic, they shoad say it with pride

--- ----- The & same as _m, as past president of the friendly

gons of Saint Patrick, J,-flvery proud of my daeertE-, my ancestors.

D: I think so)too, th g t. The individual I was just talking with

is a good friend of the mayors or the mayor-elect, Shaeffer, or at least(he's>

the Bemocratic nominee and will win this next election. AndS, he seemedto

be ansk individual who knew what he was talking about. That is paul J. Nevins.

Supervisor active accounts, credit and collection West Side Baltimore Gas aend

Electric Company. Also holds important position. Parade is over, hour and twenty-

five minutes long. J3i, sir, how long have you lived in Baltimore?

Voice? I was born here.

D: An, you're seventy-some years old?

V: Seventy-six.

D: Um-hd. Are there some Lumbee Indians living here on Broadway and Baltimore

street and around that section?

V: Well, there used to be, I (ntknow who lives out here now, I been -j P -o`

some time, I been working late ,," 'M' L"' c 0i 40"' Broadway between

D: What do these people look like?

V: Oh, they look like some other nice colored people to me.


D: Huh?

V: Just like ordinary colored people.

D: Did some T them leoo white?

V: Now, what?

D: Some of them you-say look like ovdaiky colored people.

V: ha right.

D: Did some of them look white?

V: Wf, there was some of them with white skin, yGt-kret.

D: Uh-hant

V: It was a light skin, yes L --------.

D: Yes. Iank you.

V: I.u'r6 welcome,

D: J&es, what Indians do youlike?

Voice: Oh, well, the Sioux ...

D: And the Apache?

V; Apache.

D: Why?
KcZva hell, for, p-;r
V: Well, because they got histoyy they fought likeyou-crrow, they--e

rights. But they lost out yeu-knew.

D: They say that Lumbee group broke up the Klan in North Carolina one time, d44i-'t


V: Oh, they did it9but__


D: You think that was a good thing?

V; Well)it was for them because AK, they roughed up the Klan and the Klan hasn't

bothered them since then up there in the mountains.


D: Good for y-t, too, wasn't.it?

V: Not really, because the Indians don't, just keep y themselves,

D: XH .

V: The-Indians-down south %het&e < one of their chiefs said, we don't/

wai t-the colored people.

SD: How s-that?

V: When the Indians 'C--. h -,.k we (don't fuck with colored

people, soe colored guys eee back and said, ^ -.v' '4 {' >i k

D: 'PM here at the ae*cain7 noe- th eAerica niriai n tirer, bu*e-ht-rar-the

Baltimore ah, fair, an4d-h, there are lots of booth5around, infcuded amongst

the many boots is the American Indian Studies Center. And ) also set up in

the American Indian Studies Center is uf, another organization called Pf, farm-

workers union. Of-the AFoft-CIO. They-are-givi-ng---away-some-eliterature-and so

foTr. And the American Indian Studies center has it's boof here and they are

selAlgg some curios and so forth. We'r waiting for transportation here. )

looking at a lderaation, for .atholic University of America. A, traditions

and change in the Lumbee Indian community of Baltimore a dissertation submitted

to the faculty of the graduate school of arts and Sciences of the Castholic Univer-

sity of America of the requirements for tpn

degree of doctor of philosophy. By Abraham Makosski, Wah ington D.C., 1971.

Table of contents, introduction, i4, home is North Carolina, Baltimore is

jSt a pa ee I stay. Making a living, The unemployed, the unemployed and the

unemployable. The man in a family, DIated equality and righteous living.

Trouble and violence. The religious experience. Being Indian. Interaction

with the community. Includi 0g tradition and change. 237 pages,

D: September the twenty-fourth 197r, Adolph Dial speaking. Since the night, iP,


out in Baltimore county, an--t, I spent the night with friends who came up

here 3,, during the war years, in 1945 and also ear lisome of them came

afndY here is a group of Lumbee Indians who live in the vicinity of Baltimore

but uhK who basically go for white, and have very little to do with the Indians

on Baltimore street and Breadway street where there a concentration of these

people. Apparently they IXME have the idea too that they would get along better

if yf, all of the Indians here in the area were dispersed and not concentrated

in one area. There seem to be two schools -of thought along this matter. Herbert

Locklear feels that its better that they concentrate in one area and they can

work with their problems together. Others feeling that better not to con-

centrate in one area. AcuaitlyT-straldlep,-thziOief,

thia p lEIs- makkg o--nTose-eretg-ating--ready-t-otEae fffo-r-balt ire.

_lkthis depends on whether or not hey're)able to survive on their own. I-

think-for-poor people I-thiltk perhaps its better that'they concentrate on-u1i,

depends on whetheve ure ab&e to make it-on-your

own or not. nr.- r-ca.' '

D: October the sixteenth, -991. Adolph Dial Speaking. Visiting in kfy home tonight

and spending the night is u/, Mrs. Amanda Carter. Mrs. Amanda Carter is a

Lumbee Indian who lives in Baltimore. Mrs. starter, -When-did~your1ight-now,

go-ta-t-inkle. (Tape discontinuity) Mrs. Carter, when did you move to Bal-

timore? rV, aL A o_ '

C: In the year 1944. December the .

D: Do you feel that your children had a better opportunity uh by leaving Robeson

county and going to Baltimore?

C: Much better.

D: Do you live on Baltimore street or uh4 Broadway where most of the Lumbee live?

C: a, I live in that part. Live oeSt in the suburbs.


D: You live out in the suburbs of Baltimore.

C: WUTih.


C: Out of the ki -- section.

D: OUt of the ,Ui v- section. Do -yt-o-iuore-or.-es, are you and your family

just as another white family, so to speak.

C: ,, .id

D: You;don't know anything else but-httat. Uh, why did you leave Robeson county

to go to baltimore?

C: Well, ISS- -. I had three children by that day, idn have but

myself and two more children with me '-- ..-- .

D: They-Vent, some of the children went up during the war?

C: Uh-hth. C,'; ,

D: How many children do you have up in Bftimore?

C: Five, __.. .

D: Andtdi, all of them married up -in- Btimoe?

C: They all married in Baltimore.

D: All of them married white?

C: Um-4 LZ45

D: Uh how many grandchildren do you have now out in Baltimore?

C: Two.

D: Yu have two grandchildren married in Baltimore. They married white too.

C: eI / ,-') -!

D: Only one.

C: f .l t (,, __

D: Yes, u-h4tK, And another one engaged.

C: em.


D: Apd-ilrt they married white too,

C: jh yeah-. t 5

D: Why did you go U* Baltimore?

C: Well, I lived out of .

D: Uh-iuE, and why did you figure it afforded a better opportunity? Why did tbye

go to baltimore bacyin( the forties?

C: Well, I guess there were better opportunities then.

D: Better opportunities.

C: Yes.

D: Dao y.u.ar, do you (consider Baltimore home do-y efe hen in Baltimore

and coming down here do you feel, say, I'm coming home?

C: Well, I consider Baltimore my home ---._I tionsid

______my home.

D: You don't consider this home anymore. You think ou'd)like -to retiF down

this way?

C: No, never, never no-moTe.

D: Never no-more? Why?

C: -Tx (A I guess.

D: You ouldn't)rather come back. Do you enjoy coming back?

C: Oh, yes, I like to come back once in a while.

D: uit-hm. What were childhood days, like ?f, Mrs. Amanda? By thefway,

How old see you?

C: Well, according to r.- cdZi (1 ''A seventy-seven

years old. The third day.of October,

D: How old was your mother when she passed?

C; My mother didd at ninety-three,

D: Ninety-two. And you have a brother now who got married.,.

RX 18.'

C: ( i ,

D: Maybe ninety-eight, or something like that, Mr. Simpson. Uhf-now-

who-was-yonr-g-trnd-, who was your parents?

C: My family_ _________

D: And who wee-yotr, who weasyour grandparents?

C: Well, as much as I can know anything g9ut it)my Grandfater on my mob6ers side

was name Luth Dall, her mother's name, Rebecca Lowery.

D; Rebecca Lowery, who married Wa-ts Lowery?

D: Buck Lowery was her brother

D: Buck Lowery was her brother,

C: Yeah, kehfieh.

D: Who did Rebecca marry?

C: Willy Stall.

D: WAy -St-eatl, _ByZ that's right.

C: Jm-fii.

D; You don't know w'o their parents were, do you?

C: No sir, l(dot

D: Lt-hin. eT, whet-was, in .our childhood days, ph, did you ever hear much about

where they thought the Indians here came from?

C: No, not too much.

D: Um-hm. Ua, what was your childhood days like?

C: WelljI had a pretty good ^- childhood.

D: Did you go hungry?

C: No. We un4, always had a plenty to eat.

D: What did your father do for a living?

C: Farmed and he (o\ r < \( t0 J''

D: J- ul Uh- l. And-rV, what was your diet like in your

childhood days?


C: Oh, we had all kindcof planted vegetables, eggs and milk, 2 ,->. butter,

and .. O ... .. M '

D: UmI-jm. And did you dci.ytl attend any schoolkg?

C: Oh, yes ,- ----- .

D: Where, at the old _.. school?

C: Uh-htuh.L.S .

D: How many years did you go?

C: Well, I y L'S- I- six years or more, then I went to

what's called d nnormal.

D: r C .3 .,.*.*t. .

C: that day, and they moved us to '___

D; You mentioned a midwife a while ago, who was this midwife?

C: ;-UT, herK name was CrA Lowery.

D: ( Lowery, right. That was not rebecca Lowery, was it?. No, KKK

that was her sister-in-law,

D: Uhb-h4 Aunt Gefr, they called her.

C: h, f .

D: Lm-hm. Wtr, did she deliver very many babies?

C: Just over a thousand babies.

D: Something over a thousand in her life.

C: Uf-rm.a

D: She must have done it a long time, you ont know how long.

C; w '-i my grandmother, I know, she '*, -. -c. .

Then she could

;D Your oldest child and you?

C: Yes, that'true.

D: She brou 't you ihte the world and your oldest child?


C: wiih-h. Y1.i

D: 4ncd jK, that was how many years apart?

C: NaX Well...

D: -How-34-w-oa-yaurz--iegsti "iAd-l-,I-ea how old were you when your oldest

child was born?

C: L-mu&u-be, I was about twenty.

D: Uh-hm.

DR: And of course she was probably doing it long before you was born.

CR: Oh, yes, oh, yes.

DK: And did she do it much after your oldest child was born?

CH: Not too many years after that, the poor thing,

D: Not too many, not that often. How did she travel, how did she come to the

house then.

C: Back then o k0 .e. mules and buggy.

D: Mules and buggies, ph-ho. Well,,wouldn't'the baby be born a lot of times

when she arrived?

C: Soemtimes the baby would.

D: Um-hA. M2, what would she charge? &XaSS

C: Two dollars.

D: Two dollars. You said something a while ago about she RXX would say I Sgote gKX

hurry and go back and help my paw, how was thfs..

C: No that wasanother middyit-w s.

D: What was her name?

C: Liany Locklear,

D: Liana?

C: Liany.

D: Liany Locklear. What would she say?


C: She told them, hurry up now, I geo4a get back home and milk my cows.

D: I goetea get back home ahd milk my cow. Unvtm .

C: UA-nT'm.

D; 40Ai 3f, what auit doctQrs ..-._i..... do you .tC here

in Baltimore go to John Hopkins when you were a child?

C: Yes, oh, yeafh.I

D: Upl-i. And you idnt' have a hospital in Robeson county.

C: No sir.

D: They would go to John Hopkins those of-them that had the money, lots of them

died from lack of attention.

C: Oh, yes.

D: Uarl.
(Zr\ btce
DH: What do you oandfir your good health to, you still seem to be going real strong.

CH: Well, I guess *t -, d Lji -no strong drinks, no coffee or nothing like that.

D: You ia drink coffee?

C: Oh, no.

D: Wh;Rat-dr" you kw Did your mother drink coffee?

C: Not too much.

D: What about your brother_

C: Well, he drinks coffee.

D: Yeah,. Now when the midwife charged two dollars a day, what were people getting

for work a day, KliKXXMI% during that tiem?

C: Well,r c f < K.

D: G-etwe if you go back far enough it was fifty cents a day,

C: Yh, that's right.

D: gT, hat did your father or your grandfather do '

C: My father he jo \,t. S'rJ/! business.



D: Um-hm. Did you ever pick any cotton?

C: Oh, yes.

D: 'hat's)the most cotton ou'v ever known a person to pick?

Ci'veknown them to pick four, between four and five hundred pounds.

D; A few, I think, went over five. People like........ Locklear and...

C: Oh, and _Bullard.

D: _Bullard, um-h.-;a

C: Yh,he')pick over five hundred pounds.

D: sirE..

C: And .too.

D: J-h, there were very few who could do that, iasn there?

C: Yeah. Lv"

D: Whmd-44- the, where'dthe come from?

C: Well, it always here, my grandfather said it come from Detroit and.

D: From Detroit, um-hm. Xkl= U V,^ Mrs. Carter, some of the blood here would go

way back has a lot of strong white blood 04, -hw-4+d-uU, how did this happen

to come about?

C: Well, I guess it was just a white coming out, wuS, they just got to liking each

other and it gdmixed up.

D: Married.

C: Right. Just like t4ha-s-*. going on today.

D: Yes, uh-heit.

C: TCourse its)worsee now than it ever was.

D: Do you think hat s good or bad?

C: I think t's) worse now.

D: I mean do you thiiQk it was good it happened, or...


C: Oh, I guess it was a,.,

D: Alright,

C: Yes, its)a good thing.

D: Now...

D m----f-e--------------------
D: Cmt-f fyuu.r il'awS-werEte...


D: Sme-of-pbr n-taws-ere the-rr-tes? Your inlaws were Carters?

C: Yeek.X: ,.

D: Say they came from Ireland?

C: Yes, they did say that, yeeh.

D:And wk, gay they brought their 96n grapevines here and transplanted them here near


C: Um-ha+m...-

D: Did Mr. Richard Carter build the foist u ah yeer-uh, ff^ter- "- l iw l t he 4- -


C: Yeeh. -l

D: In Pembroke?

C: line for the

railroad, then.

D: Um-lim-. wH rXIXrXWXffyKW

C: .UM-h

D: He built a line for the coastline railroad.

C: p right.

D: Nowjwhen you were a child, and thinking back, were you making some of the outstanding

what you call leaders of the community of the Indian People when you were a child

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