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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
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Si.
UL 27A
Interviewer: Lew Barton
Subject:
November 8, 1974
B: This is November 8, 1974. I'm Lew Barton recording for the University ef Florida's
History Department's American Indian Oral History Program. This morning we are
over at the American Indian Study Center here in BaltimoreAon Broadway Street.
And with me is a young lady who works here who has kindly consented to give us an
interview. And I'm going to ask her to tell us her name and what she does, what
if-^
ever she'd like to tell us. We'd like to learn as much about her as possib le.
M: My name is iy / and I'm secretary for the education
program of th AmericaanIndian Stydy Center, 1$ the Federal government,
title four, education program. I have lived in BAltimoEe for abFt mt y
eighteen years. Prior to this I worked for one of the hospitals here as a clerk
typist and from there I went to an 6Y Lc. office/as secretary and now I'm
working here. For Othe education secretary.
B: Could you tell me something about your parents, your family,'hildren, their names
and ages?
M: My father's deceased, he's Wilfred Sampson, my mother is still living in North
Carolina, Tammy Sampson, and I'm married to Solomon Maynard from the .egrL area.
We have two children, a daughter fourteen, and a son thirteen.
B: Alright. Where did you go to school?
M: I attended various elementary schools in North CArolina but t graduated from
Pembroke HIgh School in 1957.
B: I hate to sound this old but probably went with some of my children.
M: Yes. Ru,h, you had a daughter named Ruth? / //
B:' a that's the oldest .
M: Yes she and I were in class together.
B: That's great. How long have you been gone now?
2.
M: Eighteen years.
H: Eighteen years.
M: NoJ I;m sorryAseventeen years. I'm getting ahead of myself.
"B': -you learn to forget about home do you like 'a well. When I say
homer I mean jr ?
M: No I don't think I'll ever be able to forget about it or accept Baltimore as my
home. Not as long as my family is there. I have a few relatives here on my
mother's side that there's not enough of us and its not.enough' like North Carolina
that I can forget North Carolina as home.
B: There are many contrasts between the areas aren't there? You know Roberson County
0-I
being chieflyArural area and here you have different surroundings and so on. And
does this entail any particular problem, are there any problems of adjustment?
M: Many problems. I came here looking for work.otherwise I probably would have stayed
in North Carolina. Especially )q I was _,asanleSus It was very lonely for
me not having my immediate family here and the people were different that I met here.
And being an Indain they, atsihere in BAltimore didn't know anything about
Indians. And someones asked me-what you were, and-you said that you were an INdian.
they'd say "Oh they're extinct, there, there!s no:Indians anymore". ew
qg^ii ^ gand it was very hard to to adjust to this sort of thing and it'taken
many years for them to realize that we aren't extinct ,^aif e we're real Indians.
and they'rsay "Are you a real Indian?" "Yes, a real Indian".
B: Do you know 7^"-.-',;- TIkrA tA htd, pt ,
M: No. I don't. ,,
B: There's suppose to be an Indian ,& -it __Indian buk
M: No .I-,hAt Aever heard of it.
^Z W Z't kYw O N-- c / / i -
B: Wqftavs: t probablyAto the city by or something like this,
O i (-I i.f\ rlL f t^'
3.
M: Right. r tA f --_L-. -t->'teg-sthg-be statueand >s
hard for me to belielfe.even if this M .9. hereX would me hard for me to believe---
that it s a Lumbee.
B: 7,3^ , e r4 But the fact that there is an IlNian here
M: Right.
B: How 1Oti /Zl,' PZA tAJ2C" /l >
M: For the education program this is X beginning .eAa second year. I worked for the
,if c -rc r
center I was secretaryA this-isehaee- the alcoholism program for a year and a
half j&0t,- 1 ta-a education wm ew y it
B: You strike me as a very efficW4t secretary.
M: Thank you I try to be.
B4 Wish I had nne.1hat does the educational programs to do, what ground does it
cover? aW-hth could you give us some specific data?
M: I think that the main goal of our program is to bring our elementary children up
to the level of the other children in our schools. Our Indian children are such, A -
a minority, until I think being a minority they have, they, it' causes them to
have a lot of problems and don't care attitude probably and they're not up to the
same level education-wise as the black or the white and we have tutors, we have
approximately 25 tutors in our program junior High and HIgh School children and
they UW;W the elementary childrernin the schools and in the homes, and some here
at the centerand Whave had some reports from a few of the parents who have said that
because of the tutoring their children are doing much betterthey enjoy going to
school more than they did before, and ^ ,they are catching on better than they did
>0 /
before and t s very pleasing to hear.
B: Im sure it is. 'aat-p a-tar ve many studen!tare involved?
M: At the moment probably about 200.
B: p-- -vt. A k ?
\ -
4.
M: I say probably because 3- haven't had a chance recently we've haf Nk been
going around getting children classified agfSavi9L so we haven't had a chance to
really dig into this and find out how many kids are receiving tutoring. We have/
I 4tk six schools .where OUr Indian children are tutoring.nd weAour program
calls for three ad4sand we're workidn with one at the moment.and we haven't been
able to keep a.is in our program so that it's sort of hard for one add to
K, *,- : schools C- t -
B: h tAt ~' MO' / -H A Well you Indian ,
-- / -t '
I-' 1 1'' C -ways than one. QIM < a- ,weve,.-rfeverybodylaa that the Indian yft.
ti ,'' What is the attitude generally and. 7 ,
M:Right *
B:. Down to 250,000) K-ti / Il.,tt6'\ Lv/CJ -4 '"'-
M: It's what, the attitude I .think is one of surprise I think you know and ect when
you're.apearencej I don't know 4/ithat isAadvantage or disadvantage. t-u-sally
go, I would say a disadVantage you know because ]py -when people look at me I
think they they're expecting to see the western-type IndianA Straight hair and
my hair isn't exactly straight/but they they want to know where are you from, you
know, or you don't look like the typical western Indian or typical Indian that-yo
see on television and I feel that television has really done us a great injustice.
B: Oh yes the,old stereotype. What people don't actually realize is that peoplelQ
appearance, differ depending on the part of the country they're in. TMFgre A-t/L
geographical _f7 ---/
M: Right. And it has nothing to do with what's in the heart.
M: You could be white/look white. But the Indianp \MAN-^ h ead-nothing to do
with what you really are.
B: That w@a4 survived \I A -fI 6 .' ;.. ? (1- P7
wv-eJ.^'A VC4
^jC>^:'^-^ LJ
5.
M: Yes.
B: I mentioned something in my book referring to this matter of survival, one of
the primary drives in a life--to survive. And for example, this is -- V
/-. : -<' "' ,but you know some of the animals develop Aeh- capacity to
change their colors in order to survive. I lrder to 6L4 w L 1,- wci
Do you think that would be ?
M: Yeah. I would think so, I would hope that people would accept us for what we are.
Regardless of what we look like. I couldn't, I can't be changing our looks to suit,
to suit somebody else so that they would accept us. i
"wtV^e, {C -- -
B: Well I don't believe that sA deliberately J X V over the years change
Biological change -ed I was so surprised recently I watched
a film by. church of Jesus Christ[Latter Day Saints, 4, MormonX, And they were
showing some Indianr rwv- ' L'v have never been in contact with
white people in all he history and yet there were >tO among theA*eSai
and they were very bftzArefnd this was somewhere:; in South America,and the gentleman
showing the film /A t i, 4 aspeople probably Av S -,U uwL. I yc
So there are differenttypes ,' ..,i rW ... Jv, ?
M: No.
B: There -ar so KiVAv_ Lpeople need to know about INdians that they don't know.
L I( _1L ell-
M: Um-um. And a few books that/h# read that aren itr-a the word. I useeto
belieVe anything, hat I read--like newspapers, f I read a book and you know whatever
that book said I believed it because I you-know I was young and I didn'k\have
_tv _A lXo s52g0 4_ all the untruths you know that I hhis, just Joes I/l
-tax- I vl-L /
wict -Iept. whatever I read I was suppose-to believe/\ came to this big city and found
out that nAhfa n Awas just the wrong thing to do to believe P ou read
6.
I '
or g ou heard.
eV,_ --2)_ _
B:r. e* *6w-'l <^'L
M: Rightbecause I feel like lots of these books are written and said what afs
PtCCx U 1. 11-'1/ -'%. f!(-) ct.
to s*fand not. "y ti-f +it n Ii 1i OI
B: Well he he was probably honestly mistaken# tKUG i 2n i C
4A^ /Uv U. /AL L-V^A t /1 .2^t-.
M: Right.
B: The old sterotype/thatj1a havoc with the INdiansA people assume that Ihdians
are very inarticulate and ", .i : : )?o LtV- .
M: Yeah.
B: Indians call&f him the man made of words. He was 4:;, ;t.. as a '; '~-
OdffePrSt e and we have so many people like 0 v. When you talk to an INdian
they'll gAieya-*e Iidian ,Z .' J C the fact that he's educated. This is
M: Right. M C W ^ g ,.
B:
Your experiences and changing from one environment to another?
M: J- i and none comes to my min4. One thing, one lady asked me at the
hospital where I useto werk, what nationality I was, and I said I was an Indian,
I didn't say American Imdian, I said IN ianand I guess by working at the hospital
we had people form various country here and she says to me, "Well when did you
come over here?"' She thought I was from India and until later I didn't realize
what she was saying but it took me _"When did you come over here?"
And I said'"Over here, I've been here all my life! I said, "American Indian". And
S, when did you come over, ..you know V I been 'here
all the time.
B: Well for so many thousandO0 Is your work very
enjoyable, and you've already said it was satisfying.
7.
M: Yes. In the past my work has been in the medical side of the world you might
say. Until I started working at the alcoholic UeUAd and there are many things
I have to learn to do over again like from high school, things that I have to do
that I can check on/because I such as my spelling. This o.t of thing, I t'
,.* '* f qiiL on everyday words to spellI he-written medical terms er LD
--ai agste worked for the doctor in the hospitalcoming here I fould that I
didn't know as much as I thought I knew so I had to ,Y learn how to/things over
againand - 2 J P" so many problems f t in our program.,.* And this
took place that we well it was like under 5 p t'and it hadn t been
carried out in this area before, so we had to sort of like trial and error,you
know do this waand if it didn't work we'd do something, we'd do it differently.
M: Right yes.
B: But it's it's kind of exciting though is it not, jl just to be with a pioneering
program?
M: Yes it is, .
B: sort of & tjk C C '':4 "* and apa SCe comes later, ig e-a
come much Ieater.
M: Yes.
B: At least theyJll have something as a model,
,M: Right. Now LA/- had to turn in the time for y tutors this morning
by10;00. And they use a time clock at most of the schoolsso-I'm stating here
trying to figure this out'to the nearest half hour, and I thoungt well there
must be anA gy way to do this although I don't know how because I've never had
to keep time before.
B: Especially, people around the tape recorder. And we sure do apprecia te you talking
with us this morning, We d like to know about these things that we've heard of
and we want to know about o ^ ^/ .-^d-^
'^SAr^^^rTS^^^sa1^!^^ ^
M: Right. It's been a pleasure talking j you,I haven't seen you since/I was in
high school.
B: It was that long?
M: And you know I've been to North Carolina several times. WE go at least 4, 5, 6
times a year but I had not seen you or I don't remember talking to you even when
I was in high school so it's been a.great'pleasure.
B: Well it's ^. the pleasure's all mine. I wanted j-* to ask youA ousse some of
the young people back home I b A are hearing what you say
and so on, and what do you think of the Ar
Indian people? Or would you have a message? c g; 7- --.
M: Well I think one thing in particular is to stay in school, get as much education
as possible, and learn to _/_;_f_/ __ k_ .
B: That's great. I like that.
M: I guess I should a____ I feel like-BW Wt-
too 4- Le)vL 4v-9
important/the pans1S isAimportant to us and...
B: Right and if we ja) t O 1, ) r ourselves.
M: Right, yes.
B: That natura31 I want to wish you good lick at what you're
attempting to do and I pra Yt will be.great' J w3 C
fr ( ...-s
M: Thakk you. Yes I hope this program wTWu finish or if it ever is I hope that our
children w "ill be able to O 'I was greatly benefited from what A tried
to do for oAft*4=kq s h_.
B: This tutoring program fas inmates me. About how many tutors do you have?
"M: I ihink at the moment we have about 25.
B: This is great, I' know they work well because in my own experience as a blind
person who had to have reading help several times, I had to have all my reading
done and in the summ er, you know I y Shakespere, but, the summer course,
six weeks we had to cover 18 Shakespgre plays. And so I had to have a tutor you
know, I was afraid of getting behind. I was very fortunate in that I was able
to get services of ysva ss -daughter, S
s A pe ..."-- -- You know, she, she'
helped me such. Giving me keys/or it.
f there is a system to learnK _l, __* ?_ _
M: Yes.
B: ;j -*- ... ... but that was terrific, W 7J i
"W" all those eighteen plays and need keeping them separated 04d my mind.
M: Yeah I can imagine that. Takes aot of work.
B: sometimes one play would run into another. So Janet,
read themzsa we worked out a system. At least I didn't fail the course.
M: Good.
B: I1 failed one course I'd been out on my ear like _a---
M: Right yeah.
B: Well I want to thank you s uch. And I want to, I want to
M: That's true. You mean the tutoring ?
B: Yeah I'd like to see some of those. I'd like, you know, I'd like to.
M: Mrs. Walter s ugai tr and she is our aid and in charge of this, maybe she
could tell us how thiAc could be arranged, 4 -
B: That'd' breath and I want to think I want to thank you for helping us in this
particular __. We're not very organized/,
The center is is just tremendous, we're very grateful.
,X: And what ever little bit I can,
B: Well thank you so much now.
M: You;re quite welcome.
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