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Title: Interview with Herbert H. Locklear (November 7, 1974)
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00006826/00001
 Material Information
Title: Interview with Herbert H. Locklear (November 7, 1974)
Physical Description: Book
Language: English
Publication Date: November 7, 1974
 Subjects
Subject: Urban Lumbee
 Notes
Funding: This text has been transcribed from an audio or video oral history. Digitization was funded by a gift from Caleb J. and Michele B. Grimes.
 Record Information
Bibliographic ID: UF00006826
Volume ID: VID00001
Source Institution: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, Department of History, University of Florida
Holding Location: This interview is part of the 'Urban Lumbee' collection of interviews held by the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program of the Department of History at the University of Florida
Rights Management: All rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier: UL 20

Table of Contents
    Copyright
        Copyright
    Interview
        Page 1
        Page 2
        Page 3
        Page 4
        Page 5
        Page 6
        Page 7
        Page 8
        Page 9
        Page 10
        Page 11
        Page 12
        Page 13
        Page 14
        Page 15
        Page 16
Full Text



COPYRIGHT NOTICE


This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
107) which allows limited use of copyrighted
materials under certain conditions.
Fair use limts the amount of material that may be
used.

For all other permissions and requests, contact the
SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida





1.



UL 20A
Interviewer: Lew B>rton
"Subject: Herbert Locklear.
N member 7 ,1974


B: This is November 7, 1974. I am Lew Barton recording for te University of

Florida's History Department's American Indian Oral History Program. This

afternoon* we are favored to be a t 211 South Broadway, here in Baltimore,

Maryland, ft the American Indian Study Center and with me kindly consenting

to give us aninterview is say the boss or at least, hs somewhere

up there near the top.in anything he does and that is good old friend of

mine, Mr. Herbert H. Locklear. Herbert, you were very kind to have me

come in and give us this interview. H& are things going for you?

L: Lew, the pleasure really is ours. Wr glad to see you fter several years

separation only seeing you occasionally during that period. Thank you for

coming and thank you also for asking. 've been doing reasonably well here

in Baltimore and we are having sort of a good time with what wre doing

and v6 been here for now ss ate eighteen years and we learned t ,feel

at home a little bit here.

B: you know I came over here l to World War II. Just before our entry into

World War II and when I came'here fte at that time there was just three of us,

Andrew Locklear, myself, Drop i-.JV-!, and somebody else. But we were the

only Lumbees in Baltimore. And since that time,Vmigration has been very heavy

from Robeson County, *rk Carolina hasn't it?

L: It certainly has. I would approximate that *s-seme-where.i.-ts-asa.

SEs, there are some 3,000to 3,500 Lumbee Indians here. And in addition to

that there are other Lumbee, many other American Indians of other tribal groups.

Many of whom are involved with the American Ildian Center here ing if Baltimore,,

I believe in our last tally from our -i'. we have something like 11 different

tribal groups represented. It could be in excess of that now in that wj

meeting hhse people all the time.





2.




B: By the way I saw a sign that said Mohawk something, do you have any Mehawks

up-sheiam

L: Yes we do. A matter of fact a friend is Mohawk works over with the Bethlhem

Steel Si Sai d =w taxsash' and he comes over occasionally

and two or three other MohawksVare around from the New York area, who are here

living and working.

B: Th goog,I think tiaYsdsg isSks'' 't^ gives us an opportunity to broaden

when we assocfte with other groups. fg-rmpi>- y 'J"S, when our people

began to migrate to other places for better opportunities and so forth, particu-

larly employment opportunities, there were those who were aftaidf when they

got aay from home they would forget all about being Indian. That hant

happened here has it?

L: (I 'afraid Lew that some of that has happened here unfortunately. That really

is the identification of the fact that very thing ta happening gave rise and

cause to this study group here. Six years ago ote of our irabee- who was

a teacher at one of the local schools dealing with the preschool age child1

who was now a member of our staff, Mrs. Elizabeth Locklear, came to us once

along with some other concerned persons and we began to discuss that gap that
iden i ,- rj r-4
existed between the i.dentyaig needs of American Indian students and hose

resources available to them through the public school system and t was on

a basis of that that we really got started with the organization in Baltimoret

Already identified as. t American Indian Study Centers th"'y why we have the

word study iT.ne?. a in our title. To try to bridge that gap to cover

that cultural gapj Bring the needs of Indian'children and that which la

b 'provided through the public school system." In this w vebeen relatively

successful and I-r .... b- .."' .. -. I believe that we have provided some

empais to sort of aa-people back into thinking traditional Indian,and be

an Indian in a non-Indian environment as itwere and that sort of tricky\





3.




Because we believe that there are so many things in the Indian culture,

that ought to be protected and preserved. While at the same time eing a

member- of the main stream of American society.

B: By the way I have run into different people with different interests in the

American Indians jam* it seems to me that the one group that has a deeper

interest, .A I'm) talking about non-Indian groups As the Mormon Church

popularly so called the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I was

not aware that they had this great command of the history of the American In4 ns

until I listened to some of their thLa l talks and bought some of their slides,

and so on-and sgu the American Indian culture was amazing as you know, we had

pyramids that would swallow up the pyr ds of Egypt. Temples built on top
+h; I 95 -- -.- -
of temples, magnificent Vand thitdaaalll, -,b. a eW xev the average

American is not aware pIMTr that the Aerican has this kind of civilization

at all.

L: You'eabsolutely right. And the premise that we sort of work from here,.
S^r
is that n order to give meaning to the present9o the contemporary life-

style, A5a and in order to generate interest in the future, one has to

know something about the past. Because of the future and the present ean' t

really have an ultimate meaning unless the person can relate it to a&p i a

achievements and accomplishments, tFcause out of the past that J-- the future

holds promise for us and consequently, we have dwelled consider-y on re-

establishing where it has been lost, maintaining that which has been preserved.

Thus Indian cultural traits and patterns, and characteristics have set a

pattern of behavioo)so that we can help the-yowath the young people identify

with the present and to hold promise s the future to sort of sever,if we can)

that cord of alienation, separation) And lack of self-confidence, lack of

self-image, of self-worth and to builO more kiads that each and every individual

being the result of God's magnificent creationand the way we try to that is





4.



to help people look around and see what has Veen ad'mplished thereby adding

hope for the present knd the future. You mentioned about the Mormon Church,

I d know a great deal about them %E here in the Baltimore area, but a

ChuArcl group and I do know something about with whom w 'veworked here, ..e`gKup,

who seem to be equally concerned is the American Friends Society of the Quaker

Church. And they have done a ot. As a matter of fact, th r having a program

here tomorrow night. With ^h;'- : [.---from New York, And some

other areas from over in Canada and this program -4-=aL--iSt's

\ going to be here at the center but it's sponsored by the American Friends

Society.

B: Well tha certainly great. W 'r wondering lso-although all this is so

interesting younsaksa, Vut eq'd)like to get your biography, in here. Would

you mind tracing your biography for me?

L: Well I think maybe if I have any gift f gab at all iS) talking about other

things and other people, i ) not almg as m ch in talking about myself,

but try. As you know I was born and raised in Robeson County. In the

area of Firncicr-.-, I was graduated from high school at the Pembroke High,

And I subsequently Pembroke Unilersity'l957. Taught school there for a

couple of years and moved to Baltimore and water coming to Baltinae I

fortunately, and I emphaj1fythe wor fortunately, because i&s been so
W 9 o~
regarding and satisfying for me, 1%e involved with tcial services and

subsequently went to the University of Maryland where I got my Master's in

social working 1966. And I am now professionally employed with the

Baltimore City department of socj services. And I head up the food stamp

division for Baltimore city. In addition to that, as though that wa6n''

a ful ime job, which it is, tif 'Imalso one of the founders of the

American Indian Siudy Center'/August, 1968. And e'v worked with this

community ser ce orientation since that time 61 pat ime basis. In a free





5.




and spare time kind of way but spare time resultei;rean average of

approximately four hours a dyy since that time. And vCI indicated before

that we started out here at ti American Indian Study Centeryby the way in

which this tape is been made, c -,j ,'jL. group but pretty soon there

after we found out that .se we established group of concerned and interested

Indians about welfare of other Indians, that we had so many problems brought
Thd 1'f-
to us that-many people would not carry to the established, peventionatl helping

agents ite found out r L r r an that we needed to branchout into

other things as wellso we started in a campaign to raise money and to hire a

staff and to create a community facility, though.- which Indian people could

relate. So consequently w'' r" done a lot of work in that area, and I must
\j-
^-dmit that it is been through this community service .fr-educatiQn where

really gotten professional satisfaction. After going to the school of social

work and getting a master's immediately they put me into supervision aned

-l'AQ subsequently to administration and that has not provided me t- r ''oC
t thJ- \ (-1..,, .i '.I. r' ;. "' ,SrJ ,.-- '- --'t
o. hat I yearn o but this that tives me an xpti- to meet

people to talk to people and to be immediately involved with people,%on an

individual basis. I married a girl from Nore Carolina, Robeson County ad

together we have five children. My oldest son of whom very proudis ink

the Air Force Academy out in Colorado.

B: Can you tell us all their names?

L: His name is itlif Kirby Raya Locklear. -^ a nL eng.wiul-e Et tg his.

m-e T-ite -n et rme- rect-ethafj JoW y, .e was eighteen last week.

I ve been away, 've forgotten his birthday had passed. My oldest daughter

is inA Ramona (0 a 7and se'sa second year student at til- Pembroke

State University, in North Carolina. My third daughter, Anna Marie, is a
Pt r 1,
senior at PattersonVH/gh School here in Baltimore. My fourth daughter,

Greer, is in the ninth grade, at the 4rnrS-I' anl tSe;tsf junior





6.




high and then my fifth one is still a baby of three years old.

B: Thats)great. Who was it you married? You married a Lumbee Indian didn't you?

L: Yes. Her% name Christine. She was a Hammons to our marriage and she

was from the Fairmont area also.

B: Well Herbert yo v done so remarkably well, 'T-cT a. as you know1%aq*.

shOe-, 'vve always been a great admiregof yotrs and if you ever start a

fan club be sure to let me know.

L: Alrightj yow rC msoroe -4V. .fALi..,

B: Til be -Gu+ -.* Y e certainly great in so many ways. a g your
\w,
interests and so sincere. thby the way how much *here your housed right here.

This is very interesting. rAL,-a E-Si a&4, we could help noticing

the picture windows and things like this. Could you tell us a little something

of this building?

L: Lew, thpi;p;ticUul.arjjda'-g this area where this building is located

is called the Fell's Pointt area in Baltimore city, aWd this is one of the

oldest areas of Baltimore. It was established in and around the por -

this area was developed because the the waterfront is just a few blocks from

here and in times past cattle was brought right up to the water front there

where there were slau er houses esa and this is the way this area started

in and around that. Now this particular building is I think well over a 100

years old. gi

B: Ve beautiful.
0-
L: It is a very nice buildingj.- It belongs to the Fell's Point Methodist Perish

and whe n.we started *=we*w r m 'sP in 1968, in August they gave us

one room here. As toa show their community involvement and intera' A

few years ago unfortunately the congregation here dw ndled, aS .-thS, there

are three churches in this ., and they have integrated their churches and

have vacated this one. So that what we have now the whole rear end of this





7.




facility here, the aovirt is not used except occasionally ,here we have

general community church related meetings occasionally maybee once or twice a

year. There are some things surrounding the building that sort of stais

it s history. I was just looking up' n the wall for a plague that was hanging

up there, and has recently removed I do 't see it there now.. ut this building

has a very inter sting history and we want to make sure that is restored

and protected and preserved.

B: Well I was noticing on his wall over here, long live the American Ind-ians.

This is something thto, based on the fact that He Iddians have still come

as extinct as the bald eagle. They would have if it had beenn for

preventive laws and things like this. At one time, L4ka-Q- kLz 0
/ < c----, -'LJ
fallen iagfe s mBe 850, 000 -pajrdaad to something like 250,000. Thas

a very conservative estimation of 1885. But this sign seems to beti-a

-zit *- -Taztl increaseP i-- we don't want to become extinct.) H@ ab

=aagl .mL"-=a t :toy-osk rsame4n- .-'How do you feel

about assimilation?

L: OutW c S^iCC_---. s l about the liiele piece of artwork which

you're referring, this is a result of an artistic expression probably and our

fee ings of some of the young people around here. We work with many. We have

some art classes, cultural training etc. And often times they just make

what they feel like and we like to display this things for of course for the

the obvious to encourage and motivate them. And o-l50 because we certainly

agree with alot of the slogans, concepts, etc. that they produce. Now as

to my feelings about assimilation I believe about assimilation like a class

set of the christians, that we are in the world but not of the world. I

believe that we can be American Indians living in Americk society, enjoying

tBagh.all the rights and privileges of American society, equal to all their

people, and still maintain our distinctly our Indianness. And this is what I





8.



try to practice. This is what I preach. This is what I encourage. I believe

that if other's golng to be assimilation on a cultural level that i

the non-Indians Qught to assimilate many of their ideas and concepts to that

of the American Indian because you know, as a historian, that there are many

things in the American Indian culture that really ought to be emulated0
Child rec. r;r
""t" practices, governmental concepts, organization of government as

such /he democratic process, and community-type living, reflected really.,.

much more homogenity in terms of society collected livingJthe does c lot of the

-aea the capitalistic approaches that we are pressured into making now,

4acssa-mw where, t-f" "a,- if you do-t have -4k I, e RP

you'T been equal or some sort of sillines6course:we-e dotbelieve

in a ;-TPnr--T1y-y*-= rg r= -f-ss imitation, and I think that

cultural assimilation has to be approached most cQutiously, rfsalse eh !!

d-a thee aJP g n Iyedaa-, we do believe in interre-lationships or, and

that' the same as saying assimilation.

B: Thers) another, you-know, i p' ne thing to assimilate and another thing to

be assimilated.

L: Absolutely.

B: Thee) a great difference in that. If that's selfish, ("LM)like

you, i /nCL4 o .-, our identities.

L: I wrote an article which fortunately got published the National Association

of SocialWorkers Journal, and I believe one of the comments that we made in

that arti le, along that same line, was that that which is worthy of preservation

proves itself- test of time and this is true with the American Indian.

You spoke about how the Tidian almost became extinct, under ordinary circumstances,

the American Indian culture would have been totally absorbed by now< ere it

not for a real struggle to F survive and on the basis of that mere survival

reflects certain stamina not only in the people but in their philosophy and

"WSd in their thafoEitit type and mode of living and we believe that ought to





9.




be protected and preserved.

B: Wll th certainly good. These are the totuhy things Jhat. we have to be

honest about, don't we?

L: s-trLy. Yea there is.

B: And you and I have never been ___ery about any subject. We 11 there areas

many things that )like to cover. What do you envision for the future of

the centerbere? Do you do you expect to continue to expand? Wait before we

get into that, suppose somebody went to the Ugiversity of Florida library,

or to PSU library and Lipek&d out a transcript of this interview or rnr a

copy of the tape and thy wanted to to make a donation or a to help in some

particular way, JSaBKhs how would they get in contact?

L: Thahnk you for asking that question, Lew. We are a tax exempt organization for

personal contributions. We are exempt fMa internal revenue codes, title

IC3 and 4 etd4--A -th .:y-charitable organization and as a civic Xanse. We

have two exemptions such overtures would be helpful and certainly appreciated)

and any kind of offer of help or interest to help, or an interest in the

organization would likely be communicated to the American Indian Study Center,

211 South Broadway, Baltimore, Maryland. I certainly dOam would not object
40 r
tc-being contact personj\iy home address is 1014 East 36 th Street,-in

Baltimore, 21218. telephone number here at the center is area code 301-732-

8230 or my home number is the same area code, 366-2770.

B: t tht's rhood because mure somebody will want to make contact with you.
Fy b
I d n' know how many libraries will get copies of these that we do know, that

'r starting with the University of Florida, and Florida State Museum,

and and Pembroke State University and of course tathaeop 4izb, these

tapes willimade available a .--.ila9a. .-t to people throughout the

United States who are interested in studying the life style of the Lumbee.

L: Well. lew thee one thing that I like to say that 'ssit





10.




is sort of a new day for the Lumbee as you well know. Us being primarily
ruo-_ctl p 4 Snae people, having moved here to Baltimore, in the urban eit.. Je have

found that the the road is just a little bit harder here, to hoe as it were.

And in our effort to protect and preserve those cultural ostha we were

talking about, r- gee keep the people o-; Indianfr-'fbth

urbanization definitely has it's toll upon Indian culture and we have a

sort of a multiple kinds of problems here in our effort to do tvaT o-this

preservation and the t fsfmf-:4n community serviceP. hat we certainly

hope 4o proDvi' ;.




,,"-^_ "" "*"z*" -*-*- i -
B: How to get in contact with you if somebody wanted to make donation or contribute

otherwise.

L: Yei now havingVthat I have spoken to that, like to use just a minute

if I may, to say yuwaknew-something as to how I feels while tribalism

-t S) are to be respected and appreciated, I believe that one of the greatest

obstacles that American Indians face and 3I,'speaking specifically about

Indians is to learn to be able to live in and work together for a common good,

transending tribal lines. You know 'a Lumbee by birth, when time come by
C
death also but nevertheless also Pb" Amerivan Indian in that I hopefully

am able to identify and associate vith similar type problems that are faced by

oth'e tribal groups. I d J disassociate myself from the struggles for water

rights of the Northwestern Indians for example. I d4 tjdisassociate myself

for availability of water for some of the ja midwestern or plains people.
e / A_ brmLji r
These are Indian problem and I belieVe you need to get more of ahe=d-identi-

fication with one another. )I wish it were that we could ultimately become where

we are American Indian first and then a member of the dis'I,-i..- -/ tribe,

group or class) second. That then while these things are important identification





11.



Jefg no4'olq
purposes and deaa enpurposes, I think the most important is a real

community of brotherhood that as I said transcends tribal, geographical

boundarie and this is one of the areas where we definitely have to work in
X
an urban setting because of the djmixture of groups here.

B: Well I certainly want to congratulate you on what yo've done so far and

to wish you luck's speed also.

L: Thank you.

B: I would like for you to say\if you would, about what you would advise e44l-h

people to do. Now you know we have a new generation of of Lumbees who are

8) coming along who are very uPstand what would be an equal line for the

general public inirder to make that people mate again, in order to make

that people really stimulated xou have to make them a little bit more than

equal.and I think that in some respects the federal government is recognizing

that in that t designating aL lot of money specifically to the American

Indian. That a lot of the tel thy money that's being appropriated by congress

there are now going to say that a or some cases up to2 must be signated

for the American Indian that in order to make American Indians at a self

sufficIa level peivey-ii, you got to bring them i a little

bit higher than what is generally considered as equal. Now that is not an
-fc
unfair proposition be cause wfehn3e, in order to get people main stream from

far left or right you have to go the pendulum has to swing far over into the

opposite territory and so that when the settling of the time comes then you will

go back to an area or a level of equality. g although for the

time being I think that our people have to in order to live down lot of the

stuff that other people have lived ras for us, we have to be a title bit

better than average and or equal. We haveto be unequal by being a little bit

and sometimes superior because we are still in that area of having to prove

ourselves." .





12.




B: Right.

L: You see, the American Indian, you're faced with their kind of problem.

Where as say the protestanwhite in this country all L1W. has to dobe white,

asi and the very near fact of birth gives him certain rights and privileges)

whereas i('s ot true with Indian because the ,5c-retyped kind of concepts
\oJe
about Indians in this country. When you meet American Indian you got to be

really good to be as good. Yeaameaand t at' where it has I believe that

comment might be '!_n O dd' know but I certainly would feel that

that is a sort of a fair analy-ses as I see.'- .

B: Yes and I certainly agree with you. Congressman charlie Rhodes from Notth

Carolina, C -0.W '. r ;:<,c:'7 Q several years ago, and our Lumbee homecoming

brochure and -t the name of his program on television is something special,

and t' this adO that he carries in this Lumbee homecoming brochure is

siih.ag a"aSer something special, but this brings up another problem, perhaps

and that is-ihki, this professor Adolph Dial, has reference to I think.,recently

when he said m trying to teach my child pride without prejudice.




S /
L: Yeah, right on. bmueI yea, -: I agree tha if lIdians of s ety

have been really something special and _i'fs th t's)the idea of the thing,

of his statement. For example, I just finished a 'Eing ou+ through the midwest.

I was in southwest I was in New Mexicoefor a week and I went around to apot of

the pueblos there and I went into a lot of areas in Colorado etc. Now whts
U-
ES>wh ts) peculiar is that you get s1e the tourists for example attracted to

that area not beciUse of the desert, not beisse of the mountains, not because

of anything else other than the American Indian and the"j go out in the

evening out to the festivals and things and watch the Ind s dress up in their

traditional garb and do a cultural expression and t ey'1l leave them there and





13.




having ad'a good experience, and go back to say a plush home and in the

east or west or wherever they might be living and will have called it a very

good vacation. Th y'v sort of lived a few weeks by this experience you see

to see and to lea'n something, but then when the Indian leaves this festival

S off his feathers, he goes back into squaller, to ppoverfy and to a

life of non-recipient the good that this country has to offeead njow t4h3o

artdm8s., those states love those Indians, because they attract these tourist

dollars. But when Icomes to putting money out for rehabilitation, for job

training for economic improvement, when it comes Mi, to building houses,

suitable for human habitation etc. No! And again referring to my article,

I said it there something to effect that the Idian is very similar in aot

of cases, say to the Grand Canyon, people go to see them. You see?

B: Right.

L: The difference is yawaosb-one is the place and the other is the people.

And wr talking about human beings you see, and yeat, the American Indian

is generally thought of something special. Especially when it comes to making

to say a cowboy and Indians, you count o it without some Idians or some-

body playing as the Indians. tg the I dians hae entertainedth vedressed

up, th Y'v looked good, they've become a part of American heritage and a*aa4

/oo many people don't want to change their heritage, they want to keep it

exactly the way it is'nobody would think about taking a bulldojand going the

fac of the Grand Canyon because i )part of American heritage. it's ome-

thing that we knowit's'there and we can go seefit when we want to.

B: It's a shrine.

L: But people needs this progress along with the times. People to move and people*

need to grow and to enjoy the prosperity that; their fellow man is enjoying.

If we got pIverty, to be sure, and I'mnot suggesting that all the TIdians

ought to have a million dollars,('m ot even sure if it'd;be good for them.





14.




But (m)saying that we are our brothers keepers.

B! Right.

L: And we ought to be concerned about one another, and I might addima.my

e\pbAi tc this I not just talking about American Indians, vworked-with

American Indians, I love American Indans, I live with American In4 ns,

etc. and because I can not in no way comprehend the -vK-.j of problems

arising, I concentrate on that of the American Indian. That doe 'mean to

say, ()not equally concerned about problems that other minorities and other

people face, similar to that of the American Indian.

B: Right.

L: You see, I'not suggesting for one moment that Indian people ought to have

all the breaks, and nobody else get any. Ij saying that we ought to get

breaks equally. And that this then would get to be more certainly of a

christian brother hood, fellowship kind of concept and we could be guilty then

of a4ot of time practicing what we preach. When we really do that.

B: Right. Well is there anything you would like to refer to? fL, what's on

your heart right now? Any particular thing?

L: Well I think I...

B: wanted to ask you about your health when I called up here the other day

3m% I called your home, your doctor had told me that you were ill and I hope

you feel much better now.

L: Thank you, Lew. Yeia somehow or another, back in tSm-- i r' early

September I became sick and"'"admitted to a hospitf on the 19th of September

and stayed there three weeks with that dreaded 'ickness of hepatitis. 5i$

i'a slow process of recovery but the doctVr tells me now that I can go back

to work on Monday coming and of course I'm)looking forward to that. And glad

to have recovered sufficiently, to be able to go back to work and I do

appreciate you asking but i feeling reasonably good now.





15.




B: Well th good and I hope, i'-1C r,:-'too much because I know you are

still, you are not fully recovered yet, although you sound fine to me.

L: Thank you again. Well I just had maybe nothing 3yff.NWek-O of any real

drama to sayJbut '.I sort of sum up to say that often times when I start

talking about the areas of concern with which f I findtft myself that,_!MiiL -

"--iitis n enthusiastic topic that feeling deeply l,

B: J_- -... ure you do.

L: And more than motivated to participate-in any kind of interview, or sharing

of information or feelings or concepts. I ot claim'mine are necessarily

14kaewa but they are mine and thanks to change with different kinds of

experiences I would imagine if change was indicated for the better. But

('m encouraged tdby as we'v already talked about about the movement of

American Indian across the country.



L: nid I want to use every opportunity, every vantage that I have to encourage that

and to be supported for that to really give ear and ventilation to a process

in which American Indians can seek rt"..' through their own personal and

community i j 1 'and rehabilitation. And I mean that on both a spiritual as

well as an economical, political lines this country we need each-

other and I said too, and an' article that I believe (its there to say that

none of usg are really free BSi as long as any of us are in bondagWand

I sort of maybe like to end on that note if ou satisfied with the interview

but fi9&., I feel that you know that, therefore the freedom of each and every

one of us, is the other person's responsibility because it has something to do

wih whether or not Cufree.

B: Right:

L: YeaU, I caQt) sat free if I felt that you're in bondage and I believe that

we ought to share that as a concept as a philosophy across the country.





16.




B: Said none of us lived to ourselves or 'eDa6ai=

L: Right. Thmthight.

B: I think this is the way Im going to open my preface B the second edition

of my book. Or to my acknowledgements rather. Neither does any man write a

book to himself.

Q There are so many people you are indebted and o'- t 'y r I'i-' that the enadi

you happen to be as looking with or engaged to any.

8: "'"e A B sounds *ood#e right there, ;adrh, you know what I mean.

L: E^ I do and I share it with you

B: Well again I want to thank you so very much. fS _-ypu'vo added much to our

program. Our people are interested across this country and in as much their

interested I think you re right Cr 'ir perhaps we should do all
S. .. b we should do all
possible to furnish them with that information and in that way perhaps wvei

eliminate a lot of erroiand misunderstanding so many miscvndeptions, the old

stereo-type, perhaps we can C, 'rc' l that ourselves.

L: Yei I hope so and i fco'' w aylaz-result''af this interview in any

way that you feel would be helpful.

B: Well thank you so very much and that here wishing you good luck and God's

speed.

L: Thank you.





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