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1.
UL 18A -/J //
Interviewer: Lew Barton
Subject: Mary Taylor
11/11/74
B: This is November eleventh 1974. I am Lew Barton, interviewing r the American
Indian Oral History Program of the History Department of the University of Florida.
This morning we are privileged to be onc) again in Baltimore Maryland, on Broadway
Street, at the American Indian Studies Center. And with me is a young lady -.; kindly
consenting to give me an interview, who works with the Educational Department at the
Center, is that right? And I will ask her if she will please tell 'us her name.
T: Mary Taylor.
B: Uh, you want e give us your age, or shouldn't we ask a lady her age?
T: Fourteen.
B: Ah, what do you do? May I call you by your first name?
T: Yes.
B: What do you do?
T: I tutor for the American Indian Studies Centder Educational...
B: What course? Or do you tutor several courses or do...
T: Yeah. Different courses.
B: Uh huh. Do you enjoy doing this sort of thing?
T: Yeah.
B: Could you tell us something about your family, uh, who your father, mother are, who
your brothers and sisters are and uh, where they live and so on? And the ages of
your brothers and sisters if youccould remember.
T: Uh, my father, he is name James Stevens Taylor, and he's thirty-seven, my mother
is Mildred Taylor, she's thirty-six. And my brother, that one brother he's twenty,
Stephen Taylor Junior. And my sister she's flrt'l Taylor, she's fifteen. And
my little sister she's, her name is Barbara May Taylor, she's three.
2.
B: Uh huh. YOu got a nice, large family, haven't you?
T: Yes.
B: Howmany is there in all? Brothers and sisters?
T: I've got two sisters, and one brother.
B: How long has your family been in Baltimore?
T: About eight years.
B: Abut eight years?
T: Uh huh.
B: Uh, do you; enjoy it here as well as back home?
T: No.
B: I've heard it said that uh, when uh, Lumbees comes to Baltimore that this is just
a home away from home, you ever heard that expression?
T: Yes.
B: Uh, could you tell me some of the ways it's different here for you, you're a teenager
uh, course for instance did any teenager could uh, could you tell me some of the ways
it's different here than back in Lovetz county, North Carolina?
T: Well, up here, you know, it's crowded like, like there's too many young people running
around I' ...'the streets, and it smells like, you get out of here and you don't
much about it, now. I guess down there it's more like, you know,
having fun down there. I think that like you can do more things down there than
you can up here, I like Up here% all you cpan do is sit
around on ()DleA Inot too much.
B: Uh, what about, do you ever hear about uh, don't answer this if you don't want to,
do you, do you ever hear of grass and stuff 1ike that floating around?
T: Yeah, it's terrible up here.
B: I understand hat there's some of it back home, now. Uh, jAt a few years ago nobody
ever heard of it but uh, with the coming of the university or rather the enlargement
of the university there's enough of them back home, too. Uh, how about alcohol,
3.
ism, does that seem to be a problem here?
seems to be
T: Yessir, itb a big problem up here. It's bad down there, but now it's'started to
be up here
B: Uh huh. How about friends of your own particular age group, uh, of course Your
yet,
+4Qd )OO iS0/ i'9 0 started dating are you ?
T: No.
strict as
B: Uh, do you think Indian Parnnts are as'now they us ed to be ? Well, you don't
know much about how thye used tobe but do you think they're strict?
T: Yeah, uh, I hear my mother and they talk about, you know, when they was young and
theylry teach us and say them days. And I always thought, you
know, it goes along with me, you know, I'm not too interested in boys myself, maybe
when I get wilder I, yo-i know...
B: Yeah. You probably will be. I think you should be. Because uh, its something
that will develop and it ain't no use to rush it, is there?
Y: No sir.
B: It'fl all happen in due time.
T: Um hm.
B: Where do you go to school?
T: Hallison highschooll
B: Um hm. Do you have girl clubs and boy clubs on campus, and this sort of thing?
T: Um hm.
B: Uhk, what kind of activities are you interested in?
T: Whatd'ya mean, like a club or something?
B: Um hm, well any of it. Are you an athlete ?
T:
B: As what?
T: Twirling baton. You know, in parades and...
4. 4.
B: Are you in the cheering section?
T: No.
B: Um hm. How 'bout dancing, do you like to dance.
T: I love to.
B; Well, that's one thing you have an advantage on us here, there are not as man-y
dances back home, although there are some.
T: Um hm.
B:Uh, do they havde many teenage dance clubs around, or places where teenagers can
dance?
T: Oh, not too many, there's a couple up heEe I know of.
QArd
B: Are they uh, kind of strict at those places, are they chaperoned Pga all that sort
of thing?
T: Yeah, but it don't do much good, 'cause placds are too crowded for them to really
do anything 'bout it.
B: What kinK of problems do you run into uh, out there on the dance floor, or around the
dance hall, or what do you run into?
T: Well, I I never been to a place problem
there, and fighting.
B: Um hm.
T: AT school you hear a bunch of girls and boys talking about, it's a place called
Unity Hall and they talk about dates and all.
B: Um hm. Uh, the young people go to church very often? Are they pretty good
church gRowers, church goers, said church growers.
T: Yeah uh, well my friends 4&t I know, they go to church.
B: Uh huh. Do you enjoy going to church?
T: Yes.
B: Uh, what's your favorite subject in school?
5.
T: Science.
B: They say in some areas of the country they have a, something like counseling
groups and Do you have a counselor?
T: Um hm.
B: And I'm interested in how they handle the C' k..hr thing in this part of the
country, and because of the country uh, th) teach sex education uh, in others
they do not, uh how 'bout in your area?
T: Um, I had it when I was in the ninth grade but I haven't had it in this year.
B: Uh huh. And you're in the tenth now?
T: Yes.
B: Uh huh. Uh, do you have coumreltors that you if you want an answer to something
,you can ask somebody to help you ? To help in
giving you a, for an answer or personal attention?
T: Um hm.
B: That's good. Uh, what do you plan to do when you graduate?
T: Uh, I haven't really decided. I'm gonna just wait until I do finish school.
B: And see how things develop?
T: Um hm.
B: I thought perhaps you might have had some interests along lines. What
are your best subjects?
T: Uh, in school?
B: Um hm.
T: Well, uh, science is my best subject, and my next subject, history.
B: Um hm, that's good.
T: But the only thing about it, they don't never teach you about Indians, if they do
it's about Pocahontas, you know, just a little bit about her.
B: Uh huh.
6.
T: And Geronimo. Just the ones in the war fighting, they, you know, don't teach you about
nowaday Indians.
B: Do they uh, say anything about, do they demonstrate any kind of attitude toward
Indians when they ?
T: It's mostly about \O t3,. CO'tA Li. ., and that like there, that's what
through
we're in now is um, Africa, so far we been' Africa and uh, China.
B: Now do you get this in geography, mostly?
T: Yeah. Well, I got twentieth century history this year.
B: Um hm.
T: And in seventh, eighth, and ninth grade I had geography.
B: You never heard it said that uh, that Indians discovered America, have you?
T: No.
B: Uh, how far from the Center do you live?
T: About five blocks.
B: Um hm. You're lucky, you don't have to come very far.
T: No.
B: Do you think uh, living in Baltimore as you do, you're Indciess is an asset or a
liability? Uh, does it help you or is it a hinderance?
T: It helps me a lot 'cause I guess I want to learn more about various, you know,
there's not much you can do to learn about you knw, more Indians. 'Cause I like
to come out here you know when it has dances and all, you know, listen to him talk
and I like, you know, listen to what happens in their tribe, you know.
B: Do you know any Indian dances?
T: Yeah.
B: Do you like to do Indian dances?
T: Um hm.
B: How 'bout Indian songs, do you...?
7.
T: I just, you know, listen and dance to them. I'm in the
dance group of the Mr. A.E. Lewis has got down here.
B: Um hm. Do people show a lot of interest in these Indian dances?
T: Um hm.
B: Uh, did, does this interest seem to be growing or decreasing or holding it's own?
T: Uh, I don't know where you know like, we go places there, I guess they just like to
see us dance or something. I dontt think there's too much interest unless, you know,
B: Um hm. So it, they seem to be interested in watching the dance but uh, they're
not too interested in the history :behind it, is that what you mean?
T: Right.
B: Uh huh. Do young, do young people discuss Indian CUA'Of 01 i-. ^ ?
T: In the Indian Students' Center?
B: Um hm.
T: Um hm.
B: Do you think other Indian, uh non-Indian children are, are they a little envious,
or are they a little resentful or do they just accept it as a natural thing or
what?
T: Guess they accept it as a natural thing. If you, like you said it's going, you
know, they ask you like your race nad tell them what you is, they gonna stand there
and look at you like you zcase and all. And I don't Idke that too much.
B: They soon get used to the idea, though, don't they?
T: Um hm.
B: Uh huh. Uh, I guess Indians were always subjected to -ahe in one degree or another,
I was talking to Richard LaCourse of uh, the director of the American Indian
Press Associatoin, he's in Washington, D.C. some time ago, and he was telling me
about the same kind of problem, he said, people stare at me, stare at me, stare at me.
8.
Uh, does this maayou uncomfortable?
T: Yes.
sometimes
B: Um hm. Uh, what do you see if, you know'young people have uh, good ideas about
important things uh, what do you, what do you think we could do with Indian people
to uh, to bring about a better understanding of our people?
?
T: No, 'cause I don't, you know, I don't really think -there's much that we can do about
it, some people won't listen, saoe will.
B: Uh huh. Well those who won't listen, of course, you're right, uh, there isn't any
way to reach somebody who doesn't want to by reached, but how about these who are
willing and who do want to be reached? Do you think we should make a special-
effort to furnish them with information as much as possible, and get them the
real facts?
T: Um hm.
B: Um hm. Would you like to talk a little bit more about uh, who discovered America?
T: Yes.
B: Who really discovered America?
T: Well, what I think the um, was they-wes Asians that came from the Icelands across
the Atlantic Ocean, that traveled to find a home to live. And the people
had to be us, the Indians, 'cause we the first ones here, and Columbus
here over
come overhand found us'here, he give us the name, tAi Indians.
B: Um hm.
T: 'Cause he thought he reached India.
B: Um hm.
T: And that's the way I think we get otur names from, I think we, we discovered America,
we did, you know, did more travel back across the Atlantic and all to, you know, tell
all the people about it.
9.
B: Um hm. Do young people have uh, great interest in Indian history?
T: Sqe of them I know do.
B: How 'bout attitudes of o~ur young people, are some of them proud and some of them
not proud about being Indians?
T: Yes, there's some's proud and some's not.
B: Um hm.
T: There's some of them just don't care, really.
B: Don't care one way or another.
you know
T: Well, like if you, if you are, like they come down here, you get together to talk
about Indians, they just walk away and I don't think they really care abott it.
Cause they do just walk away and start telling us __what you lqjking about
it don't' bohter me much because I know what I am. And I'm proud of it, myself.
B: Um hm. Uh, do you think these are people who want to pass for something else?
What we call pass?
T: Yeah, I guess so.
just about
B: Um hm. Or'think of all things'the foolishness not talk
about race at all, maybe?
T: It could be that. Got to be one or another.
B: UM hm. Now you want us to talk about something about your work. Uh is this for
children who uh, who;maybe have a little difficulty in catching up?
T: Um hm.
B: And you kind of coax them one at a tiem.
T: Um hm.
B: Is uh, is your program very successful do you think?
T: Yeah.
B: Uh, when you give them this expert help they can go ahead and make their eelsses
without any trouble.
10.
T: Right.
B: Uh huh.
T: That's what we're here for. You know, to help you get higher grades
B: Have you worked tout sort of a system you find out weakest points are
and work on those areas?
T: Well, when we first with our students, ask them their
problems. And them after we talk with the children we have to talk to the teachers
and see what the teachers do to what was done on their problem.
B: Uh huh. Uh, let's talk about attitudes for a minute, uh, I have a friend back home
who's a professor, he said I'm trying to teach my children pride without predjudice
do you know what I mean?
T: I don't know, I have an idea what you mean.
B: Um hm. Uh, do you think this is possible to teach Indian pride without also encounter-
ing predjud+ce or creating predjudice, do you think we can separate between, you
know, separate the two things in our minds?
T; Well, it's according to who they're trying to deal with here. Like you with a
different race and they don't like the idea of you being an Indoian, you have to
do something about it maybe to keep them from being against you.
B: Uh huh. Do you encounter this kind of attitude where people dont want you to say
you're an Indian? Sometimes? Or do you feel that?
T: Well, I don't like the Idea of somebody trying to tell me I'm not Indian, because
I do have Qite in me. But, I guess the white, I think I'm mostly Indian
white I thought I'm one of the full bloods that my
like my gPnefahter is.
B: Um hm. Um as a young person coming into contact with other young people uh, do your,
your world attitudes towards it, uh, do uh, are they used to, do they ever get used
to the idea that you are different or that you uh, or do they resent if -they mention,
k1.
do they,
'who mentions it most freely?
T: Well, I guess they z just you know, like when you first meet a person they
gonna ask you your name and race and where you lived" You
race you know most of them they don't ask no questions about it because maybe they
ask you, you know like, what tribe youifrom some of them they
don't agree with maybe they go about their business and leave ours alone. You know
like they don't really care, you know then they get behind your back and make fum
of you and all.
B: Do they seem to know very little about Indians.
T: Um hm.
B: Do they -think Indians still go around scalping and ?
T:Yeah. They do.
B: I guess 4pt sorlof puts us all on the spot, doesn't it, because we're all more or
less ambassadors for our people whether we want to be or not, they kind of judge our
by
people by our attitude and'what we do and so on, ?
Does this make you uncomfortable?
T: No, not really.
B:%Sort of like putting you on the spot, isn't it?
T: Yeah.
B: How about your friends, do they show interest in coming around to visit with you in
the studies center?
T: ______you know, they come down to the center and they, you
know do, play recreation with us and sometimes we go back in the library and talk
and read books about Indians and all. some of them
don't. They just don't care, jsut come down and have fun and all.
B: Do some of the young people expect you to be better in see things than the average
person among themselves, say your, uh, one popular idea is that uh, Indians are sup-
posed to be good athletes uh, does everybody expect you to
12.
play ball better than anybody else.
T: Well, I don't guess they know too much about that, I don't think so.
B: Um hm. Uh, can you detect any other ideas, how 'bout um, on the classroom level,
do...
T: Well, what I think they think Indians are uncivilized; and, you know you hear about
like th never went to school and all, it's not true. 'Cause everybody's got the
right mind just about, you know, the ones you know that institutions, why I think
everybody should have his right mind, if they can put their minds to do with something
they can do it.
B: Right. Well..
T: Like in school if you have, you know, teachers ask you a question, you don't know it,
and you're Indian, they gonna say you're uncivilized. Yet I don't really care myself
maybe. I think I can learn the answers too, those teachers ask me. Cause that's
when white people, black people do things like that.
B: Right, how is do you feel difference in tge black attitude and the white attitude
toward Indians?
T: Well, I think...
B: Or are they about the same.
T: Uh, black people seems like they're more closer to Indians. The white people may
think they're abone. Like I have black friends you know, they never mention too
much about Indians, not unless they ask me a question, they don't go around screaming
and hollering and making fun of the Indians.
B: Uh, do they do this as a group, or is this something uh that some smart alek_
T: Smart alecks.
B: Um hm. Uh, it, it isn't tolerated however in classrooms, is it?
T: NO.
B: Um hm. Do our Indian students have a tendency to keep to themselves maybe and
13.
keep apart from the other groups?
T: No.
B: They mix pretty well then with the other students?
T: Yes.
B: Um hm
T: Well like if uh, like some boys don't like you, you can't try to get them to like
you but, you know, like they just turn against you, when they turn against
you they ain't much you can do to to make them comd back just the same, like, they
gonna get behind your back and talk about you. And I think that there, that thing
is sort of dumb_
B: Um hm. Do you think some of our Indian kiRs get in fights over things like that
do you think?
T: Well, I don't, personally.
B: Uh,did they sort of make a reputation for you, did it help or did it mak8 it worse,
or what?
T: It helped me, my In school when I was in the eighth
grade, and wRas sitting around those bus stands um, and my teacher, you know, he
was asking me questions like our age and things like that and then he got into our
race, and I other Indians but I guess she
went to white 'cause I never heard her say Indian. And so when we got in fights
later on that evening this guy started making fun of me, he's sitting in our group,
so I got mad about it, then he stood over there and I stood up there and pushed him
so we got in a fight and I, and I beat her all the black kids you
know they started hanging around me and all and then the white people got more closer
to me, you know. I think it helped with my friends, too.
B: Um hm. The thing you just, you did stand up for yourself.
T: Right.
B: Um hm.
14.
T: The Indians don't stand up they never will. They got to get somewhere up in the
about
world. If they stay down, you know like, stay down like you don't care'what people
say and they just going through it more and more, the white people over what they
say.
B: Um hm. Of course some you can reach them and some you can't, as you said a while
ago. Uh, does it seem to improve, or does it seem to remain the same? Or do you
have to do the dame thing _when you go from one class to another, or
maybe you're with a new group, or do you have you're not
with the same group you were with last year so you maybe with a new
group or same you had last year.
T: Um hm.
B: Do you think Indian kids would be more comfortable with Indian teachers?
T: Yeah. I've quite a few Indian teachers.
B: Um hm.
T: Or when you in the you know, elementary school you know, you young then and it
don't' really matter to young kids you know different races When you
get higher up in school now they want, you know they like, the older they get the
ignorant they get, you know, start taking after you about your race and things like
that. I think we had more Indian teachers up in highschool, I think we'd be better
off.
B: Um hm. Uh, do you have anything like, do you think they would tolerate an Indian
club at your school?
T: I don't know, I guess quite a few
B: Um hm. Do you have a, you would have enough for a club on campus?
T: Um hm.
B: ?
T: I think so. We got some khite kids in there I knowlthey got Indian in them, I
can't tell how much
iL________-- ------------------------------------- *-
15.
B: Um hm. Well, do you have a time set aside each year, say for to emphasize uh,
the history of other peoples like uh, a week for learning black history, and
a week for learning Indian hsitory?
T: Is it on whatcha mean it, like in school they teach you about different races like
uh, year uh, first year we had China in the tenth grade, now we on Africa. I don't
guess they teach you know, muct@bout Indians. 'Cause last year my teacher had, she
and
had a problem with you know, they just said a few things about Indians, like,'my
sister walked out of class and uh, her teacher called home, and my mother told me
she didn't like the idea of her being Indian while she ain't. Says you can just go
somewhere, and you know...
B: Like the moon?
T: Yeah. Yeah, it, it kinda made my mother mad you know 'cause they don't w t to
teach about Indians and not Negroes. Just different races so far all I heard about
in school is like Po65-athontas and things like that's all you ever hear. And I had
that since I was in the first grade and Ihtired of hearing it, you know. Not that
several years now, is they could teacjabout nowaday Indians
that's what important to me.
B: Uh huh.
T: 'Cause you like to know what's going on in the world today instead of a hundred
years before. It'fl help some, but in ways it won't.
B: Um hm.
T: I think they teach more about Indians in school, you know, different races will
learn more about it. There's quite a few that knows about Indians.
B: Um hm. Uh, if where you have a large Indian population in school, you know if
you have enough it mkit be easy to get to try to during the year. Many schools
set aside a week for study of minority groups uh, 'course most everybody's black
here. I don't think they have any set rule about it, either.
T: Um hm.
14.
B: Uh what do you think young people could do uh, to make them more appreciative of
the Indians or I asked you that question in another
form already, didn't I?
T: Um hm.
B: Uh you haven't decided yet what you want to be when
you get out of school. You want with other people?
T: Yeah.
B: Um hm. Well, uh, I want to thank you for giving me this interview uh, is there
anything you would like to say other Indian students, say, back home? Uh, who
haven't had the experience you've had, isthere anything you'd like to say to them,
people in your own age group? Anything about any of their you think they could do
that would make _? Anything at all that you'd like to say?
T: Well I'd like to say it's time to stick together, and you know, love one another,
'cause we've got to be'that way 'cause if we don't, everything's just going to
break up between Indians.
B: Um hm. Well, I sure do think you for giving me this time, I've enjoyed it very
much. I know all the young people will be interested to, young people and old people
alike. Do you plan to go to college yet? Do you kind of envision going to college
when you get out of here, uh, when you get out of school?
T: I plan on that.
B: Um hm. Yoou think you might go to P.S.U. or nearby or what?
T: Well, it depend where I'm living at, really.
B: Um hm. I understand there is a pToblem about entering college in that P.S.U. is
charging olut+f state fees even to Lumbee kids and their the ones who established the
institution, uh so far there hasn't been any agreements made, the might get the same
rates a s in-state students. Perhaps we aan do something about that. We can try
anyway.
Y: Well, uh my mother was sa ing to me I want o go down to
15.
B: Um hm.
T: To the university.
B: Do you think then taht most people vision a time when they will go back home
this sort of home away from home.
T: Right.
B: Um hm. Well, thank you so very much and I want to wish you good luck and
I know you're able to hold your own
do you make good grades or...
T: Well, I'm trying I made today I finished
_getting good grades_
B: Well think you so very much, you were very kind to give us this time.
16.
UL 18A
Interviewer: Lew Barton
Subject: Nancy Locklear
11/11/74
Interview #2
B: Inlmuch as we're interviewing some of the tutors of the program, we want to
continue this interview with another interview, which means two interviews on
the same tape. Uh, with me, kindly consenting to give me an interview, is another
of our tutors uh, a very pretty young lady, would you tell us your mame?
L: Laura Nancy Locklear.
B: Laura Nancy Locklear. How old are you?
:L Eighteen.
B: Uh, the other girl I believe, she's about fourteen, is that right?
L: Right.
B: You say you both are cousins?
L: Yes sir.
B: Uh huh. Would you tell us who your parents are, please?
L: My father's name is \c -' Locklear and my mother is Lillian
Locklear. She was a Thompson before she got married to my father.
B: I see, and uh, how long have you been in Baltimore?
L: Seven years, that's too long.
B: Sothat's too long.
L: Yes sir.
B: Uh,Do you prefer, you prefer to be in Robeson county, North Carolina?
L: Right.
B: Uh huh. Well, I hope, they d say that uh, this is home away from home...
L: Yes.
B: ...but it's not home.
L: Yes...
B: Is that right?
17.
L: ...it's too long.
B: Well, I'll certainly be glad when you uh, when you return, but you're certainly
doing a great work here. How long have you been working as a tutor?
L: Two years.
B: Uh huh. Uh, you're eighteen years old, which means, no doubt, that you must have
a boyfriend.
L: I'm messing around but I don't have no special boyfriend.
B: Uh, do you have any particular problems along those lines, or any, uh, what do you
think, may I ask you a very personal question, don't answer if you don't want to,
what do you think of interracial dating?
L: Well, my father, see, I'm eighteen, he doesn't allow me to date 'cause he like to
perfect, protect his daughters from uh, messing up their lives.
B: Uh huh.
L: SobI think he's right. And I don't care too much about having sex relationship
with guys. Because if you're not married, the woman, they probably get you pregnant
they wouldn't support you. I have a brother that got this white girl pregnant,
she had two children by him and married an= Indian he didn't get, want to marry no
white girl. So, that's one reason why I don't care too much about messing around
with guys.
B: Oh, my. Uh so that was a very important event to them, uh that isn't the normal
thing, this is just something that happens now and them, though, isn't it?
L: That's right.
B: Uh, I know that young people can get, uh, have a traumatic experience early in
their lives which might uh, turn them in the other direction. Uh, you don't have
a special, then, at all.
L: No.
B: Well, Uh, what kind of, what was your work uh, in tutoring other students, uh,
18.
just how do you go about it?
L: Well, see, I first worked on the Indian children 'cause we're interested in having
IndianS people to help more in their education at school. 'Cause
um, grade of Indian students in dur, Baltimore cam Baltimore city's not very
good. 'Cause most of them don't want to go to school 'cause some are being put
down, and some are predjudiced, so on like that. So, I think that well, my sauden&s
I like to work with Indian children, only Indian children.
B: Uh huh. Do you think your Indianess is uh, an asset or a liability?
L: Well, I think it's a liability.
B: Uh huh. Uh, do you think that people generally have a tendency to look down on you
because you're Indian?
L: Some do and some don't. Like I say, some are predjudiced, white people are predju-
diced against Indians, and black people are predjudiced against Indains. And white
people think they was the first people here but I think we Indians were the first ones.
B: No white people think this, baby, uh, I don't think they do, not really. Not unless
they simply don't know the difference. Dodt know the truth.
L: Yeah. Think you're right there.
B: Uh, could you tell us about any particular problem you have, uh, in that direction?
L: Well, let's see, I don't have no problems in it, but >my cousin has problems,
they don't ldke some of their history teachers because they get talking abott the
Indians. And one of my cousins had to get up in class the other day, smacked some
white girl in the face 'cause she was talking about Indians, and she didn't like
that so I didn't blame her. They say something about Indians they don't like
I think they got a right to uh, speak up what's on their mind.
B: Uh, is uh, are these classes, classes in which uh, uh, most of the students are
-pdominantly white or predominantly black or what?
L: I think they's mostly white, most of the classes are white.
B: Uh huh.
L: Um hm. white schools -^ i\ 'and
19.
we only have about, I'd say about forty or fifty black students in the
school system.
B: Umhm.
L: And there's about eleven or twelve Indian students as far as I know of.
B: Uh huh. Well, uh, how's the attitude, how does the attitude at home, have you
gone to the Indian schools at home? In the uh...
L: In North Carolina?
B: Uh huh.
L: Yes, I went to school, and I like this, I like .
Before I come up here there was a bunch of Indians went to school
that
but now'they all mixed up, white and blal _
B: Uh huh.
L: And, well, I didn't learn much in but when I come to Baltimore
I seen a difference, 'cause their school rate up here is higher that North Carolina.
They tieh you more up here than they do down home.
B: Uh huh, and their teaching methods are better, you think?
L: Up here I think they are.
B: Yeah. UH, it seemqa little unusual uh, it's not surprising to find this attitude
among other students who simply don't know any better, but uh, have you observed
this anti-Indian attitude among teachers, too, you say? Or is this just one
teacher?
L: No I don't have any problems with no teachers picking on me about my race.
B: You were talking about your cousins.
L: Right, she does. And couple, she gets, I have another friend that goes to uh,
Norhtwestern, she's a Indian, and she has this black teacher that's against her.
She says she gets good grades and the teacher gets off on her. She" thinks that
the teacher's predjudiced.
B: Uh huh.
20.
L: But I think that she's just uh, fooling around, messing around or something, I
guess.
B: Maybe she's not working.
L: Right.
B: Well, uh, we do have problems wherever, whether it's racial problems or something
else. Uh, what was the difference in living around here and living at home in th
with
way that children are brought up, and, especially regard to dating,
L: Well, first off, North Carolina, you wouldn't have to be worried about nobody
robbing you that much, or messing around where you got a I C _c you
have to be careful of where you go, and how late you are on the street, 'cause of
uh, late crime, killing crimes.
B: Um hm.
L: I think that's, there's a difference in North Carolina, 'cause I don't think
and
there's, that much rape *' crime, down in North Carolina.
B: Uh huh. Is there a lot of rape in this area?
L: Yes, there's really a lot.
B: Uh huh. And are, do they have a tendency to uh, take advantage of Indian girls,
particularly, or would you sup-, think it would be a general sort of thing?
L: I don't think they do.
B: Uh huh. Okay. Uh, what's the name of your school?
L: Patterson highschool.
B: Patterson highschool. Is that located near here? You know...
L: No, I think it's about three miles. From where I stay. It's on tenth street and
Eastern avenue.
B: Uh huh. You mentioned uh, the crime of rape, which I know is a series thing,
if uh, most American big cities. You haven't been a victim, have you?
L: No.
21.
B: That's good. Somebody__..
L: I...
B: ?
L: I have a special time to be in. But I mostly don't go out, not unless I come
down to the center, and we have about three or four girls with us. So we don't
have to worry about it that much. Orkget a ride.
B: Uh huh. Let's say a girl, you don't think this a problem, say for a girl to
go out with peop-, other people, people of other races, do you think they might
attempt something like this on a date?
E: No. Yes, yes. If uh, yeah they do, some don't.
B: Uh huh.
L: Some guys other guy, they probably try
sometimes, but if you know something about them, and your family does, I don't
think they would force something like that.
B: Uh huh. How 'bout the drug problem, do you think it's pretty acute in the city
here?
L: No.
B: Uh huh. Uh, some of these problems of course are universal, I mean, uh, we have
them everywhere.
L: Right.
B: And others are not. How 'bout sex education in the schools, do you get that?
?
L: I took it, I took it one year. I was in the sixth grade.
B: Uh huh.
L: Most we talked about was relationship with ___II and things
like that.
B: Uh huh. Is, do you think it helped you.any?
L: Yeah, in a way, but that's been like three or four years since um, studied it, I
22.
don't study it any more.
B: Uh huh. Usually parents feel this, their children in pretty well, nowadays,
don't they?
L: Right. My father he talks to us, cause, he talks to us and our mother, she tries,
too. But I'm, I think fathers have more toward a girl than they do a guy.
B: Uh huh.
L: 'Cause...
B: What do you mean by this here?
L: Um, the* father feels they uh, could help protect the girl and boy, and the boy
he can do what he wants to, 'cause he can't get in trouble.
B: Uh huh.
L: So...
B: That's the old double standard, isn't it?
L: Right.
B: Uh, I guess this is natural uh, do you think uh, I wonder how you'll be when you
get married? What are, what are you gonna tell your children, are you going to
teach them the truth about the S(.
L: Yeah, I'm gonna teach them the truth and uh, I think I'll do like my father does.
Don't let, maybe, let them date every once in a while, get to know the guys, let
them go out. 'Cause if I meet the guys it's fima with me. So it all depends on
the father because the father fs the most toward the girl.
B: Um hm.
L: Than he does the boy.
B: Uh, I suppose uh, as a parent myself I can say this, that uh, you can go too far
in either direction, be too strict or too lenient.
L: Right.
B: Uh, it's nice when you can have a talking relationship between you and your
parents uh, and you can always ask them frank with these questions. I enjoyed
23.
teaching school very much because uh, my students somehow trusted me and they
asked me all sorts of questions because they knew I would not lie to them about
anything. If they wanted information, I could refer them to the person who could
help them to them or to certain books issued by uh, State Department
of uh, Mental Hygene and things like this, uh, which was always helpful, I think.
Uh, I don't think young people like to be uh, avoided when you, when they ask a
question they wouldn't ask you if they didn't want to know. And uh, I think
we do them a great disservice if we donk tell them the truth. I believe when
the tape ran oiut we were talking about uh, sex education in the schools, and
help along these lines this sort of thing. Uh, is
there something else you'd like to say alofg these lines?
L: No. But you ._. What have
I thought about when I.finish school.
B: Uh.huh.
L: I haven't took no kind of basic training, to be'm ae'er ry or
something like that, but I plan, when we move back to North Carolina, to go
to and take P .
B: Uh huh.
L: Or 'cause I'd like to go to .
B: Do you think you'd like doing clerical work or secretarial work?
L: Right.
B:uh huh. F6i) I certainly wish you lick,
excellent courses in a area. And uh, you don't like it here as well as you do
back home, tell me some of your objections ot this part of the country.
L: Well, most of my people live in North Carolina.
B: Uh huh.
L: And I'm closer to my father's people that I am to my mother's people. 'Cause my
mother's people don't like to share with their sisters and brothers and my father's
24.
do4'A. L Pk.my father on his side he had about uh,
brothers and sistefs or _, my mother's side, they didn't have
no .They mostly had talent for like, painting, and uh,
working on kind of jobs.
B: Um hm. Well, maybe they didn't have the opportunity...
1; Right.
B: ...to build themselves a gbod education. Uh, what would you say to other young
people who have problems? All young people have problems, don't they?
L: Right.
B: If I remember my teenage days,
L: What kind of problems?
B: Well, any kind, all kinds of problems. Uh, mostly social problems, winning
acceptance with other people of your own group uh, I think this is a tremendous
strain for any student, no matter what the race, is uh, uppermost in a teenagers
mind to be accepted by other people, and sometimes this motivates certain parts
of behavior, uh, quickly, can you of this moment the most important things to
uh, teenagers ?
L: Yes, I do.
B: Um hm.
L: 'Cause I think you need an education to get a good job.
B: Right. You have tqhave it don't you?
L: Right. You have to have it now.
B: You told me how many of you girls were I i J \i and I've forgotten already.
L: I think there's about eleven. At my school I work with uh, we have three, I have
three now, but on Thursday and Friday we have five.
B: Um huh.
L: Five altogether it and we had three that
25.
B: Uh huh.
L: I think that there was about fifty-five Indian students in
B: Um hm. Did you tell me about your brothers and sisters?
L: Nd. Uh,...
B: Tell me abott them. What're their names?
L: I have...
B: And ages, too, if you can.
L: I have three brothers, one's named Terry Thompson, and he's 24 and I have a brother
named Tommy Locklear, and he's twenty-one, I have a brother Jerry Locklear, who's
nineteen, and myself, I'm eighteen, I have a sister named Locklear,
she's seven, she'll be seventeen this month, and I have a sister named Patricia
whe's twelve. And we ive two
B: Um hm. Which part of do you, did you first live in?
L: Um, ...
B:
L: the question is what in North Carolina welive
right down...
B: You mentioned the area.
L: Right.
B: Do you know the Collinses uh, Ridel Collins, and...
L: Yes, I know Ridell. I know ICVi'.-( -/ Collins
B: Did he?
L: Yeah.
B: Do you, how often do you get home?
L: We go home every year. Every year.
B: Just onee a year.
L: Yeah, we go home, sometimes we go home two and three times a year and last year,
my father and mother takes vacation, they took two weeks go out see Cathy Bakers'
.26.
place, that where they used to work. We haven't had get go out there that long.
But my father's painting now, nad my mother's gone on unemployment.
B: Um hm. Now do you usually go down in the summertime?
L: Yes, I've gone home every summer except for one. But I don't think I going home
this summer, because, like I got homesick. I missed momma and daddy.
B: Uh huh.
L: But I like to work in the
B:
L: Yes, I like to work in the I can
hand the take it out.
IB: Um hm.
L: Work like that.
B: And what grade did you tell me you were in?
L: I wa<" in the eleventh, I failed one time, I failed the first year I came to
Baltimore.
B: Um hm.
L: 'Cause I didn't know some of the work they maybe I need to stay behind. And keep
up with the work that they was doing letter.
B: Um hm. 4nd this, so this places you in an age group that's a little bit different
than you, about a year's difference in your ages.
L: Right.
B: Did this thing prove a problem at any time?
L: No.
B: Um hm.
L: I could of went to summer school this year and been in twelfth, but I wouldn't
know nothing about it so, I just think I keep on going the way I am, and graduate
along with my sister.
B: Um hm. How do young kids or young people around here /"/' Lumbees
27.
like they do back home?
L: Yes.
B: Do they sort of have two languages, one for non-Lumbees and one for Lumbeew?
Do you think?
besides
L: I don't meet, I don't know too many that speak any different languages : our
language.
B: Uh huh.
L: But...
B: You know what I mean, our own uh,...
L: Accent ?
B: ...not a, not a language, yes.
L: Yes, my sister still has one, people think, sure think I do. I remember the first
year I come to Baltimore, went to school, we had to ride a bus, school bus, and
I sitting on a buss, and there was this guy walking down the street, and I say,
hey, y'all, lookee yonder, and they thought it was funny but say, I, I talk that
way now, I don't care what you say about white talk, I speak the way I want to.
B: When you uh, hear somebody say something like, boy is this
Do, does this feel?
L: No, that's not me, 'cause I used to feel
to now.
B: How be you, how be, he be, she be,...
L: Yes.
B: Um hm. Instead of I am, I, I be.
L: Right.
B: There's many a good old Lumbee
L: Right.
B: I think that their is poetry and they date back a great many years.
28.
L: Um hm. And now when I go to North Carolina people think I have a accent of a
city slicker they say _down in North Carolina.
B: Uh, you don't notice that you have picked up a little bit of the city...
L: Yes, yeah, I think I do.
B: Um hm.
L: Yeah.
B: Do you consciously try not to?
L: N&, I just speak whatever comes, comes out, I just speak it.
for example
B: Um hm. But people can still notice you're accent'when you go back home.
L: Right.
B: Uh huh. Do they say anything about it, do they shy you're putting on airs
or, or...
L: I don't try to be
high sophisticated in the way I dress, I try to keep in style with the styles
up here.
B: Uh huh.
L: And I like when I go to North Carolina these big shoes that we
wear now. People think they're ugly.
B: I, I haven't noticed the shoes, how are they made? Oh, they tend to be very
North Carmlina ?
B: Uh huh.
L: They come from the state of North Carolina by my
But they only make them down in North Carolina, they transport them up here.
B: Um hm.
L: And they bring about thirteen dollars. And down home they bring about five dollars
a pair.
B: Uh huh. What she's talking about of course is uh, I believe they call them
+r nniI uh, with a rubber sole...
29.
L: Right.
B: And they're very soft and very comfortable aren't they?
L: Yeah, they very comfortable.
B: We were talking about uh, yeah, wearing tennis shoes uh, how 'bout other types
of dress, course, many are popular wherever, aren't they?
L: Yes, uh these type I got on we call them mustangs
B: Mustangs
L: Mustangs,
B: Could you describe them to me ?
L: Well they're red, they got a big soft sides, and they got good size pockets, look
like bannana pockets and there's other types of we used to
call them screwdrivers, they had two pockets in the back, two in the front, one
near the side of the thigh, and baggies, andnow
B:
L: could be out_
B: like?
L: Like back in those days they had the ?
B: Um hm.
L: Yeah they're coming, they're coming in style now. You a buy them, but run a
reasonable price, they about sixteen dollars.
B: Um hm. Well, everything costs now.
L: Yeah.
B: Uh, do you think the tendency to change in uh, you mentioned baggies, which
suggests to me is uh, they're pretty lenient is that right?
L: Yeah.
B: Uh, for example the pants you're wearing are, they're not tight.
L: No, they're not tight. I can't get them to fit me tight, I can't wear girl's
pants that good. 'Cause I'm too tall. I'd rather wear boy's.
30
B: How tall are you?
L: I'm about five seven.
B: Five seven.
L: I think my father he's about six feet. Six feet.
B: Um hm.-'
L: And I have a brother, he's almost up there to seven feet*
B: Uh huh. Do you think there's a tendency toward uh, instead of girl's clothes
baking tight they are getting loose and more comfortable?
L: I think they're better loose than they are tight.
B: Loose; you can move around andall.
L: Right.
B: With worried about something splitting.
L: Right. They have a men department L OiO work-type pants, they call it
tight, tight squeeze. They call them tight squeezes, they wear pants that's tight
on them. But most of us Indian girls tyy to wear pants that fit like boy's.
I think we do. Just like my cousin
And bannana pants.
B: Um hm.
L: Right.
B: They usually
L: Right.
B: They don't accentuate your hips or you know.
L: No, they don't. I like to wear 'cause I was, my grandfather
used to buy me a pair when I was just a little,-North Carolina I was a little
girl, just five or ten. So I always wear them. Used to call me timy girl.
B: Um hm.
L: So, I enjoy that thing. I'd rather go back wearing 'Back there
in those days. But I don't like to wear bobby sox.
31.
B: 'cause I uh, is this a special girl's style or...
L: They're boy's and they're girls.
B: Uh huh.
L: Some of them are made out of the overhaul pants, and sq9\ are just .t', /iC
-' 0 \ i; otton. Different colors. Mostly the hippie type wears the corduroy
kind and most of the white women would rather wear the cotton type. Different
colors. But I'd rather wear cotton type. But I mostly like to have them in red,
cause I love red, red's my favorite color.
B: Yeah.
L: Yeah.
B: How 'bout yellow?
L: No, I don't like yellow. I just love red.
B: Um hm. Do you like lots of colors?
L: Yeah, I like lots of color.
B: Um hm. Do you, do you dee any sharp distinction in the styles generally speaking
in the city here than back home rural areas ?
about
L: Yeah. Some in about, couple, in about next year they'll have the'same type of
pants we have on down in North Carolina. 'Cause I know some of the shoes this
year when I went home, they had them down there_
B: Um hm.
on
L: So I think the styles are gettingidown there in North Carolina.
B: Uh huh. What about,,what do you think is the fate, what is the fate of the mini-
skirt, is ) going out, or is the miniskirt in?
L: I think it's going out. below the kneees, below the knees style
is coming back in now. They's even call it maxi. They're coming back in style.
B: Uh huh. Wonder, why didn't, why do these styles change is it uh, because people
get clothes looking a certain way and want to change and look another way, or,
32.
what do you think it is? I, I've never understood styles, why they change
as they do.
L: Well, I don't think they change that much. But most years they come
out a different style.
B: Uh huh. Oh, uh, I can remember different times when skirts kept dropping and
uh, they were almost down to their ankles.
L: Yeah, it's still out there now, there coming, they're coming back. Some styles
back in the forties will be out next year. And some styles that's in the seventies
again
will be olut next year'too.
B:Uh huh.
L: Just like the first year I come into here I remember the style was uh, elephant
legs, the big flair legs, the bottoms.
B: Um hm.
L: That was the XIN style when I first came down here.
B: How do girls feel about boys wearing long hair and things like this?
L: Well, my opinion, I don't think they look nice. With long hair. Specially I
don't think they look nice. But I have a brother
B: Um hm.
L: He generally lets his grow to his shoulders. And my father's mother
keep it cut. I don't think it's nice, I think it's a shame.
B: Uh huh.
L: 'Cause in the Bible it says it's a shame for men to wear long hair.
B: Um.
L: And I don't think the men should go against God's word.
B: Um hm.
L: But most...
B: I won't argue with that.
33.
L: But most people complain that Jesus had long hair, but nobody really knows if
Jesus had long hair. Because \ wasn't written in the Bible, I haven't found it
yet, but I don't read as much about the Bible as preacher talk about
on, in church on Sunday. I think he has a point of view, he told me it wasn't
written in the Bible that Jesus had long hair so I believe the preacher. I don't
go against nothing the preacher say.
B: Right. Uh, how 'bout thiniFs other than go to church do you have other types of
recreati bn, that uh, -' ._Indian people can do? f(\ ulo' V ...
L: Right. i\ \C
B: Teenagers?
L: I mostly stay home 'cause we have a I ahve l a
B: A what, do you play any instruments?
E: Nope, I don't play any kind of instruments. I,
B: And you just like to play records and listen.
L: Right. I mostly like soul music, just can't dig on _________ music, white peoples
music, I just...
B: What are some of your favorite groups?
L: My favorite groups? Uh, well I like, __
and I like uh, and_
B: uh huh.
L: And I like watching Soul Train on Sundays. I watch Sout Train.
B: What, do you have any favorite songs?
L: Well, my favorite song is uh, Rock me Baby, and 6an't get Enough
of Your Love, hits like that.
B: Uh huh. Uh, course you wouldn't like this particular song but there is a song which
is coming up very fast now, it, it's really up high now, uh, came up, it's been up
34.
just a few weeks, it's sold uh, I Shot the Sheriff.
L: Oh, I like that, I couldn't think of that, I like that, I heard...
B: Yeah, don't the Ranger s do that?
L: I don't know what group sings it, but I like it. And, you remember jl. i
come out with Streets of Gold?
B: Uh huh.
L: ?
B: Yeah, Lumbees ?
L: Right, $like that. Yeah, I really like that.
B: Do they still play streets of gold ?
L: No. Not hardly. But you have....
B: Songs don't last long, do they?
L: Right. Likithis week you hear it come out next week you won't know nothing about
that hit.
B: Uh huh.
L: Fast as the music change.
B: They don't stay around very long.
L: No. So I mostly like
B: How about dances, which dances do you like best?
L: Well, niw we do the bump, skintight, and the Hercules.
B: Oh, yes, I'm gonna have to brush up on the dances. I bet you've even forgotten
what a Watusi is.
L: Yeah, I don't know much about that, but I can do the Charleston The wist and
that.
B: The Charleston's been around for a long time.
L: Right. I figured that, my mother she gives me the basic sometimes she feels a
little bit like dancing.
B: Uh huh.
35.
L: And she, she...
B: Good exercise isn't it?
L: Yeah. She was, I believe we had a sock-hop dance, dance, dances back in the
fifties and we danced
like they did back then in those days.
B: Uh huh.
L: Just for fun_...
B: Do you go to the Indian dances?
L: -\erc2 c4A 4 LAAN N 'A
B: Uh huh.
L: I'm not in them but I come, like the like friday night I enjoyed
myself, I enjoyed the people.
B: You did?
L: Yes.
B: Well, I did too. Uh, although I didn't participate, I wish I'd been ab&e to.
L: Yeah, I really enjoyed myself, we got along pretty nice ...
B: Yeah?
L: Yeah, we girls got We got their addresses.
Learned some things about them.
B: Where were, what's the name of this group, the or something,
was in it.
L: I wasn't here when it first started, I really can't say.
B: I believe these, I believe these were Mohawk.
L: Yeah, they was Mohawk people. Moat of them...
B: IW446 64/5 and uh,...
L: I believe there was just onefeaHon group.
B: One"-aemm n family.
L: Right.
36.
L: He said that they had a couple women that were in the group, but they are
separated now. They had a few, very few in the group now.
B: Uh huh. One of them I think was the edikor of __Notes, which is a
national newspaper, so he was uh, pretty much of an intellectual, but you wouldn't
know it just to see him, you know. Uh, news papers distributed nationally.
L: Yeah, mfbestest friend just buy a paper from Robeson I like
to come down here and check up on it and
B: Um hm. Dtou ever read the Carolina Indian Press?
L: No, I don't think they get it here, that they do I haven't seen.
B: Uh huh.
L: I like to get it CsJ,'? '-- l0 Ik sometime, I like to__
but you can't get it forget, sometimes it's
downstairs and I just don't.
B: Uh huh. My son is the editor forthat.
L: ?
B: No, no the Carolina Indian Press.
L: Um hm.
B: Well, I want you 'to know I've enjoyed talking with you, ti to
talk with me.
L: Yeah.
B: Uh, do you have any special kind of movements among young people around here like
the Jesus movement or uh, ...
L: Well, I think some of the people, might be moving, I don't' think
B: Um hm.
L: Just not And most people like they's too lazy to get up rand go
to church on Sunday. But I was mostly raised to go to church.
B: Um hm. Were you in church this Sunday?
37.
L: Yeah, I was in church : Sunday and last might.
B: Uh huh.
L: My mother she went...
B: That was nice, wasn't it, I was in there, too.
L: Yeah, my father really enjoyed preacher James.
B: Um hm.
L: And I like preacher
B: Um hm.
L: He was up there, I think, back in September, when we had a revival, I enjoy him.
First ifme I ever heard him preach but. I really enjoyed it. And I like
B: Um hm.
L: Yeah.
B: That's good. Well, I want to thank you so much for this interview. Is there
any, something you would like to say to other young people?
L: NojI don't know nothing about so many young people, I just know around
my cousins, and all. And I have a couple white friends. They, some white people
just, they all right
B: Certainly, there are good people in every group.
L: Right.
B: Uh, what part of town do you live in?
L: I live over I live in this area. I live about nine, ten
blocks from the center.
B: Oh, you're licky. Uh, I understand that the housing projects...
L: Yeah.
a little
B: ...had the effect that the Indians are'mose scattered now than they; used to be.
L: Right. They have Baltimore street is mostly for the Indians. It's mostly Indians
38.
stayed on Baltimore street.
B: Uh huh. Did they; ?_
L: No, they are rebuilding, I think they building project buildings. Apartment
buildings to keep them. But I think the ,Indians had the first right to move
back to their homes. On Baltimore street.
B: Do many of the Indian people own property on Baltimore street?
L: No vedy many, my father and mother own their own home. They buy my own home.
B: Um hm.
L: And we pian on moving back to North Carolina in three or two years. But I plan
on moving as soon as I finish school.
B: You wate to do that.
L: Yeah.
B: Well, I want to wish you the best of everything and you been, again you've been
very kind to talk to me.
L: 4 appreciate it. I'd like to read your book one time when it get out.
B: Okay, that's deal...
L: Sure.
do
B: We will, we'll certainly try to get one over here, they 'have a copy of the
at the library
original book. I'm sure they had at least one copy $IeXXig3 .
L: be very_
B: Okay.
L: my father wants, you know.
B: 'Uh huh.
L: He says that father and mother.
B: Yeah.
L: And there's this one, I don't know if he's Indian or what, but his name is
McClosky, and he mostly (.0i "; (\:i : f" (..Ct and other Indian people
-\ C^. l -
^ud ~f"'*<7..
39.
like the Indians. And he-wrqth-a book but.uA, he didn't.go out and get published
he just write the book, and we had it and I loaned it oust to this lady and I
haven't got it back from her yet.
B: Uh huh.
L: It, it had pretty good work intt but __
B: Lot of people getting a little interested in Indian history among our people,
or would they rather forget about it? The people you come in contact with?
L: I think she, she was interested in the Indian
B: Um hm.
L: ___there were Indians tht we had them, mabe 'cause
there'd be Indians that'd be, you had to get the Indians out there for our, uh,
Patterson highschool, and we did, demonstrate the Inda and showed a little art
the Indians did. And the people mostly enjoyed it, I think they do. And, if they
were but I didn't see no
I thought it was nice that they
Indians.
B: ,Uh, I think making
progress here, we don't, were not really less history than anybody
else.
L: I have a coat I wear sometimes, that's not too I got writ on the
side, Lumbee Indians, my name, Indian Power, I think, I think our
people are they say, some, some people make fun about it, I just don't
they think I did wrong, but uh, it's changing.
B: Is (jPusually other students that make cracks and things about it or what?
L: It's other students.
B: Um hm. Well, you take care of yourself now.
L: I will.
B: And uh, appreciate this very much, your talking with us.
40.
L: Um hm. Right. 'Bye.
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