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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
Russ Hyden 1 LUM 197 A
B: This is November 2, 1974. I'm] Lew Barton recording for the
University of Florida's History Department and their American
Indian Oral History Program. This afternoon is November 2, as I
said, 1974 and we are in Silver Springs, Maryland, in the home of
Mrs. Doris Atwood. Now with me is Mr. Larry Warria$ and he sCgoin
to talk to me about music of yesteryear. Larry I understand yo'r
5or4 c -C
SVan expert on y yesterday 's m usic Y gn_.gi _h y y ou 've got all these
wonderful recordings of the past)
W: I do have a fine collection.
B: atbtt- is that a Victrola machine? How old is that machine,
Larry?
W: Well, its, About 1902 model.
B: A 1902 model. Do you think it would operate?
W: Oh, sure. aS it has the cKcr-S the windup. 1e' li ry
a record if yu' likee to hear one.
B: Okay. Listen, you wind these machines up, don't you. This is a floor
model. It, s called ah=saif.
W: Victrola. Manufactured by Victrola Talking Machines. C>rC '<, New
Jersey, U.S.A.
W: Patented in the United States and foreign Countries. Ttj wtat it
says.
B: ftmMa. Let's see, iet's hear what it sounds like, Larry.
W: Okay. The first tune 4e1) play will be Lucilia
B: The Lucia Sextet?
W: Right.
B: Lucia, right?
W: Right.
2 LUM 197 A
B: UM1E-L- Let's hear just a little bit of what they sounded like. 3tmms
abmat, thas)dated about 1902, right?
W: Right.
B: Alright, I wonder what it's oing to sound like.
MUSIC
B: e w we got an idea of what it sounds like. That really sounds
loud, doesn't it? -Hsa at---?i 2effjt? ? Is there any
way to adjust the volume on that Larry?
W: By the doors. Let me.....
B: By the doors.
W: By the closing and opening of the doors. It smothers the sound.
B: Oh, I see. In other words, you don't ave a switch on there you can
turn it up and down with, do you?
W: No, "^is-re- pJht this was made strictly without electricity.
B: It was recorded without electricity?
W: Right.
B: And w replaying it ,thout electricity, r iht? You just turn the
cranks, to wind it up.
W: Right. Here'sone I know you remember, a ene Autry tune.
B: Oh, good. Wht hat. Whts the name of that one?
W: "I'm Thinking Tonight of My Blue Eyes"
B: Oh, yes. Wha sthe label on there? What record is that? What
company?
W: Okeh.
B: Okeh records. Oh, that 'san old firm. Is probably been out of business
3 LUM197 A
for years. Okay let's see what some of that sounds like. This
is Gene Autry in his hayday. Can you imagine him playing, was there
a date on there Larry?
W: /^fe "'. {^ t- >^.
B: There should be a date on there. They used to date all these records.
But, I remember Gene Autry very wAl. Gene Autry of course, Sa,.
was a cowboy actor and a great idol.
W: Here we go.
MUSIC
B: Oh, me. V\ -, CUA_ t ____
W: 1- d/O5 r speed control?
B: "t-9hou
W: And I think the slowest speed on it is about 78.
B: gKg. Well, that's)surprisingly good considering they did it without
electricity.
W: It is.
B: 1Sa they sang directly into a horn, like, when they were recording
this.
END MUSIC
B: ej cut it off right there and, because we vant to play some'ore of
these. What have you got there, Larry?
W: Just to show you that a good voice never fails, here's a little
White Christmas by Bing Crosby.
B: Oh, tha( san old too. It )still a good. Syrsrat y White
Christmas has become a classic. Some of these recordings may skip a
little bit. They may, i i3=r Ly they're very old, and very delicate.
MUSIC
4 LUM 197 A
I think Bing Crosby- sdI abbr-i heia among the four people who have
sold more records in history than anybody else. Is that right?
W: Yes.
MORE MUSIC
W: It is skipping, I'll have to get over maybe to the center.
B: BmAn. \71
MORE MUSIC
(Dog barks)
B: Oh, me
W: inaudible
(Dog barks, again)
B: Ci irL wants to get into the act here. He has a good
German Shepard dog .. her name is iT r I She wants to get
in to the act, too.
(Dog whines, in time to music)
B: The sound quality is amazingly good considering the conditions wev
described, right Larry?
W: Yes, sir.
B: Wha(-sthe label on this record, Larry?
W: Decca Records. This is Decca Records
B: Right.
MUSIC ENDS
B: Well, let us stop it right there because it's acting up a little bit.
The threads on it are worn probably.
W: Here's-a 1903 recording I think yollemember.
MUSIC
5 LUM 197 A
B: Vgamu,. girl-
W: 1903.
B: Is this Bing too? l&s- e i-_g?
W:-is is a choir.
B: It was Edison, of course, who invented what people called then"talking
machines". We call them now, stereos and record players and that sort
of thing. Thomas Edison invented this machine long ago. People thought
he was a nut when he went around talking about recording human voices in
wax.
W: Right.
B: But he accomplished it, didn't he? And they still record voices in was,
"-Larry.
MUSIC CONTINUES
B: Okay)
MUSIC ENDS
W: You can tell the thickness of these records, thyr ,,
B: Thye) very heavy, aren't they?
W: Right.
B: Wonder if they broke easily, Larry?
W: No, S20 these have been around for quite a while.
B: Well, they use about half as much wax in the records now as they did then.
They made them very thick for some reason. But I suppose tha' the way
you had to do it back then, right?
W: Right.
B: WhaE's the name of that one y5Q looking at?
W: This is a 'Perfect Day".
B: "A Perfect Day". Who does that one?
W: Imperial Quartet, this is a male quartet.
B: Is that record dated Larry?
6 LUM 197 A
W: It's 1903.
B: 1903. Let's hear a little bit of that. Tha's)interesting. '1Q ust
keep talking while you4Ea- change the records there.
W: Maybe I should wind him.
B: Yei, you better wind him, because I forget that, don't you?
W: Right
B: And when it rung down, of course, it slows up and it distorts the
sound. ( os ot it wound up and e'r about ready to go now.
W: You have to wait on these turntables to pick up their speed-tthet're
run by strings.
B: ZSh.am, Kind of like winding a watch, only it's ibga"e-a bigger
mechanism, right?
W: Right X C tr- i
MUSIC BEGINS
B: Well, th4t, the old barbar-shop quartet type singers, isn't it?
W: Right.
B: "When you come to the end of a perfect day." (quoting record) Okay,
w ) stop it right there, Larry. Do you have something else over
there yo ure looking at?
W: Right. I'mtrying to look for maybe a good march tune, or something.
B: A good march tune.
W: tW MvM found one here. This is a Victor. I's by the Victor
Millery Band, D.W. Reeb. This is dated September 22, 1903.
B: 've never heard of the gentleman.
W: March FrC-ACI Let's see ia -'-what its like.
B: Okay. Ti ,this is interesting to me. I hopeQ.r interesting to
others as well.
MUSIC BEGINS
7 LUM 197 A
B: That's really arousing march, isn't it? t's stuck, I believe.
MUSIC CONTINUES
B: These bands were quite good back then, weren't they?
W: Right.
MUSIC CONTINISE
W: Now let me tell you how the volume works. I close one door.
B: When you close one door, that cuts the volume down.
W: Right. Now both doors.
B: tmt*um.
W: See, if you did have
B: It smothers the volume.
W: Right.
B: PaEbSf
W: Now with one door open. Now both.
B: Uiimr. Thakm ) amazing.
MUSIC ENDS
B: Larry, I wonder if yo'v got anything here by Stephen Collins Foster or
Stephen Foster Collins?
W: Let me look in here.
B: Ils Btephen Collins Foster.
W: Right, yetd.
B: You know, hes&j the very famous composer who gave us such songs as
"Old Kentucky Home"
W: I have that one.
B: "Old Black Joe", you have "Old Kentucky Home"?
W: Right, I don know who made it but I have it.
B: Well, yo got a fabulous collection.
8 LUM 197 A
W: Right. Here it is, "My Old Kentucky Home" and it's by Stephen Foster.
B: Yeal, he wrote that.
W: Right.
B: But who's singing it?
W: '.' rr with orchestra in English. Alma Cluck. Alright, this
is a 1902.
B: I( )iated 1902.
W: Right. It even has the price: a dollar fifty in the United States.
It has the dollar sign on it.
B: (laughs) How about that. Well, the prices then haven't changed much
over the years, have they?
W: No.
B: The prices remain about the same even in inflationary times I imagine
you can get a record for about two dollars, can't you?
W: Yes.
Colins
B: They, okay, let's hear some of Stephen'Foster's "Old Folks at Home" if
we can get this
W: Wind him up I 'at
B: Yeai, you got to wind-o )forget about winding it. You can hear him
winding it, I guess and you can tell about how long it takes to wind
it. t.aam
W: Now we got a nice tight spring. Get ready. Here we go.
MUSIC BEGINS
B: Tha a beautiful melody, isn't it -...--2.:.- ---s Stephen Collins
Foster. You might say he is the grandfather of country and western.
He also wrote "Suwanned River" "Camptown Races" things like this.
And "I'm Dreaming of Jeanie with the-vS Hair".
9 LUM 197 A
W: Let me see. I think I have age somewhere here, I'm)not positive.
B: "Suwannee River", it's probably a different amm from the one he did, but
you know "Swannee, SGannee"?
W: No.
B: It's pretty old, too. People play it today. It'sbecome one of the
classics and people play it quite frequently. Maybe you could find
us one of those. Yo v got a fabulous collection here.
MUSIC ENDS
W: Well Lew, I found that copy of "Sannee".
B: Okay. Let's see what it sounds like teaszJ-_-r f ,
W: George Gershwin, is that how it goes?
B: George Gershwin?
W: Right.
B: Yeah.
W: This is a September 22, 1903.
B: OH I didi t realize that song was that old because icisitill played
very frequently today, isn't it?
.5-
W: Yeah, it says saxaphone, xylophone and piano for dancing. This is
Swannee-One Step. I guess that one-step means some kin of an old
type dance, right?
B: Right, right.
W: Swannee has got a dash.
(Third person in background--designated by "T")
T: Yeafd, yea, thas a one-step.
B: Like a one step, two-step, three-step.
W: a
T.: That's a one-step, two-step, three-steps, four.
W: Five potato, six potatoes, seven potato., more.
10 LUM 197 A
MUSIC BEGINS
B: That xylopho's recorded well, isn' t it?
W: I's)good.
B: Okayr -- .i--
W: Hers) some of the words to that, Lew, could you sing along with that?
B: (Lew sings) .....will see me no/ more, when I get to that Sannee
Shore.
How I love you, How I love you my dear old Sannee.
(inaudible)
W: I guess back then they didn't know what a fuzz box and a wa-wa was?
B: No, not at all A
Have you ever noticed that the tone quality is different with different
t
instruments and differen6.people seem to have voices especially suited
to this type of recording like Bing Crosby and like Gene Autry. Speaking
of entertainers of yesteryear, I think you have something by Wild
e_
Bill and the Twxas Playboys?
W: Right. I believe you picked it out and laid it over here. Yei, here
it is.. It's got "Home in San Antone"
B: San Antone?
W: Right. And Miss Molly
B: Oh yeah. Let's play a little bit of them.
MUSIC ENDS
W: Wild Bill
S
B: And the Texan Playboys.
W: Right.
B: ,hea, they were quite popular 454 maybe, twenty-five, thirty years ago.
And 4f longer back than that. -BfF It sounded like the needle sworn.
You have to change these needles. They wear out. They have to do heavy
duty on this type of machine, I imagine. And the tone arm-is quite
11 LUM 197 A
heavy, isn't it Larry?
W? .taam .Okay, here we go. I had tolchange the needle.
MUSIC BEGINS
B: I think (t4stuck.
W: Wind him up.
B: Let's try it again. we forgot to wind up the machine that time.
Oh, thank you.
MUSIC CONTINUES
B: They were strictly western Crclr t- weren't they?
MUSIC CONTINUES
B: Tha 'sa steel guitar there, that's electric, isn't it?
Inaudible
W: Thats )not electric.
B: Well Larry, the sound quality of that' not too good. We(lget some-
thing else if you will. Larry, do you have numbers, you know, that
are strictly country? Like, say like,"lurkey in the Straw" in the
way they used to do it way back?
W: I can try to find. Let me see what this will do
Some of these haven't been played in over a year.
MUSIC BEGINS
"B: "tidlike to give my dog to Uncle Sam" (Barton quoted records)
(Inaudible)
B: No, I think that was WW I, Larry. We'll have to check the date on that
MUSIC CONTINUES
B: (inaudible)
W: "Memories of the War"
12 LUM 197 A
MUSIC ENDS
B: Vcheck;the date on that, Larry, see if it has a date on it. I believe
that's WW I.
W: On this one here.' "I'd like to Give My Dog to Uncle Sam".
B: "I'd Like to Give My Dog to Uncle Sam". RS people doQ' have
that spirit nowadays, or at least they didjuring the Asian war.
The attitude was quite different than during WW I and WW II. Of course,
the Asian war was a quite unpopular war throughout the world. Larry,
as you know, music is quite historiVal because, like literature, music
reflects the action of the day and the attitudes of the day.
W: a well, her 's ne its)February, 1904. This is a Victor
record. Conway's Dance, it' "Memories of th War".
B: "Memories of the War"
W: Right. It says......
B: That must be the Civil War their talking about there
W: Well it 'sgot different songs. IF ts "Tramp, the Boys are Marching",
"Johnny Brown's Body", "When Johnny Comes Marching Home"
B: Oh, yea, that's the Civil War now(
W: "Marching Through Georgia," "The Battle Cry of Freedom ', "Arkansas
Traveller", "Bugle Calls and Drums", "Dixie Star Spangled Banner"
B: -.k iaem
W: Dixie, you know "Dixie".
B: Oh yea, j23arr let's play all that "Dixie" stuff.
W: Okay well here goes. Let me wind up real good.
B: Southern music certainly reflected the attitude of 'Rotyl the people
during that day.
W: I hope this record doe J't skip any.
B: -fabta, I hope so too, Larry.
13 LUM 197 A
MUSIC BEGINS
W: Let me change thea-i& needle in this, Lew.
B: Okay, Larry, let's hear that. That sounds interesting.
W: L I .- -<'7'9j V These needles are over twenty or
twenty-five years old
B: Is that right?
W: Thts eight.
END SIDE ONE
14 LUM 197 A
SIDE TWO
B: If you forget to wind her up, y 'reout of luck.
W: Th4t's right. She'll ure quit on you. See if you can tell me the
name of this.
B: Okay.
MUSIC BEGINS
Bi. ft"Turkey in the Straw". Th ts real folk song. -SRtsa
W: I have another here I want to play.
B: Whatshe date on that one Larry?
W: Ill ave to look after I pick it up.
B: Okay.
MUSIC CONTINUES
B: I believe e's laying a concertina or an accordian--one or the other.
Hi'stood at it, too.
MiSIC CONTINUES
B: I like that.
AND CONTINUES
B: Larry, I understand that your folks, on your mo their's side, were
quite talented musically, is that true?
W: Yes, it seems like all of them played different instruments. I have an
uncle C'- '-' that used to ride a bicycle when he was maybe twelve
or thirteen and play the guitar. Just ride around and play.
AND CONTINUES
MUSIC ENDS
B: Let's look at the date on that and see if it has a date on it, Larry.
This is a number thao played ,,J\Wi- by every country and western band
in the country, the dance number, square dance number.
W: T- January 5, 1904.
15 LUM 197 A
B: 1904, tht' uite something. Every country band in the world plays
that sometimeg)yQt-kn, it's good square dance number. They do it
W: Let me try this. Let me see.
B: What's he name of that one?
W: Let me see if you remember it.
B: Okay.
MUSIC BEGINS
B: That'san Irish singing. I believe th n's n Irish tune. Oh, that's
"My Wild Irish Rose" I believe.
W: Right.
B: I love that refrain. "The sweetest flower that grows" (Barton quotes song)
"You may search everywhere, but none can compare with my wild Irish rose."
That sounded a little sexy there on the end: "And some ay for my sake,
they may let me take, all the blooms from my wild Irish rose".
W: UtO. 0-;
B: '11 et that was con idered to be very risque in that day.
MUSIC CONTINUES
B: (singing) "My wild Irish Rose, the sweetest flower that grows.
You many search everywhere, but none can compare with my wild Irish rose.
My wild Irish rose, the sweetest flower that grows.
And someday for mp sake, they may let me take
The blooms from my wild Irish rose"
MUSIC ENDS
B: Well, I fixed him up, didn't I. Don't you have another song there
written by Stephen Collins Foster, like "Masss .in the Cold, Cold
Ground"?
W: Rights
16 LUM 197 A
B: Let's play a little bit of that.
MUSIC BEGINS
MUSIC CONTINUES
W: ggg heir's Gene Aiixyx Austin.
B: Ja-imkt He was rt-6aentertainer, too, in the country and western
field..
MUSIC ENDS
B: Larry, it interesting to bnow that Itephen Collins Foster, although
he wrote about the South all the time and is know everywhere for his
southern music, was not actually a southerner. He was born in
Pennsylvania. He was born and brought up in Pennsylvania.
MUSIC BEGINS
B: iB b iJ's tuck. e stuck on eihtnt.
W: Well, so much for that.
B: Yea&. TIat s kind of cute. t a novelty song.
.W: Pm ust reminiscing here, just playing some different ones.
MORE MUSIC
B: Aneto. Well, you kow something? It' amazing that you could get
any sound at all out of these records as ..old as they are. And out
of this machine as old as it is. Right, Larry?
9: Right.
B: You (ant find a machine like this anywhere that I know of, not today.
It still works, I guess there are a few around, but these records are
very old and they hav n ,t lost too much of their original sound; except
the grooves break throughvthey run into each other.. What have you got
there Larry? Something that looks interesting?
W: I' l et you pronounce it.
B: "Ah_ h ia "--,L-i is there a date on this?
W: -Ajfh no.
17 LUM 197 A
B: Lets just see what it sounds like, Larry. qlm, I'm fascinated by
these old records. This certAinly gives you an index as to what
music was like yesterday.
MUSIC BEGINS
B: Itf uck.
T: "nvx-f 15 ci^.opi^ .
W: Yes. Chopin
B: -4ie* th Chopin was a great master in his day.
MUSIC ENDS
B: Would you check and see if it has a date on it ap too? This is Chopin,
one of the great masters of all time. ]'s *amazing how many of the
popular songs take these old melodies by the great masters of yesteryear
and put modern lyrics to them. This is done very frequently.
W: I d't see a date on there.
B: For Example, Elvis Presley took the melody "Oh Solo Mio" and wrote
a modern song about it, t least he recorded it. The name of this
is "There's No Tomorrow", (sings) There's no tomorrow. The last two
lines go: "There's no tomorrow. There's just tonight." I believe it
went, "It's now or never'! is the name of that song, (sings) It's now
or never, come hold me tight. Kiss me my darling, be mine tonight.
Tomorrow may be to late, It's now or never, my love can't wait"
Tha the way that went, of it, Elvis Presley did. I was a little
mited up on my into there.
r-S
W: Wka is Pearl Bailey?
B: W goes back quite a way. Let's see what its like.
MUtSC BEGINS
W: A lot of people do that today.
B: Things have) changed very much.
18 LUM 197 A
MUSIC CONTINUES
B: That just goes to show you that the love themes and all, the laments
and complaints have changed very little basically over the years,
although the ways of presenting them certainly changes. And the music
itself changes.
W: Here one you hear every once in a while.
B: Still hear it every once in a while?
W? Right? I heard it in a movie not too long ago.
BxxxtIxrax MUSIC BEGINS
MUSIC ENDS
W: Just a minute. m going to have to change my needle again.
B: aimut. These needles wear out very quickly. I think maybe you can
play a couple of records with one needle, and then you have to put
a new needle in it, because that tone arm is very heavy and they
wear down very quickly While y u're doing that, by the way, Larry,
how far are we here in Silver Springs, how far is this from Washington,
D.C.?
W2 Maybe seven miles.
B: About seven miles from Washington.
W: To the White House.
B: Uzinma
MUSIC BEGINS
B: I believe that was WW II, wasn't it?
W: I believe it was.
B: You need to wind it again, Larry
MUSIC CONTINUES
19 LUM 197 A
B: I'sa cute arrangement, isn't it?
B: Is that a sax?
W: Ns;hh. 5.
B: Uh oh.
MUSIC ENDS
B: --AS is there a date on that one, Larry? I believe that sWWII. Im
not sure. At least they were playing it during WW II. It was quite
popular then, but it might have been written earlier and that record
might be earlier than WW II. Is it dated at all?
W: It doe at ave a date on it.
B: I see.
W: HerJe one. It says "Country Blues" Redball Rocket Train, Mack O'Dell.
B: Mack O'Dell, okay.
Wi Mercury,3i S S
B: Mercury 2
W: And this is getting ,
B: Mercury Records.
W: Right
MUSIC BEGINS
B: The tone quality on that is pretty poor, isn't it?
W: Yea, is)poor.
B: I noticed that the steel guitar he'osplaying on there is a non-electrified
steel guitar. I's what they call in the business a "hound dog" guitar.
In other words, it's played with the- steel but i( s'ot electrically
amplified.
B: Larry, some of these old hymns Veally date back. For example, one
20 LUM 197 A
record ran across in your collection is called "Take Up Thy Cross and
Follow Me". Do you remember who does that on there?
W:UW....
B: These hymns are quite old.
D^r-s Doc .
W: Homer, Roberta and 3_ge a-ee.
B: Mefiat. Let's see what that sounds like. This is church music,
really --========p_ ,you know. This is "Take Up Thy Cross and Follow
Me". It'sstill played sometimes in country and western circles today.
I still pretty popular.
MUSIC BEGINS
B: Tt's definitely a church organ, isn't it?
W: Right.
B: (quoting record)
I walked one day along a country road
And there a stranger journied too.
Then lo, beneath the burden of his cross
There was a cross, a cross I knew.
I cried "Lord Jesus" and He spoke my name
I saw his hands all bruised and torn
I stooped to kiss away that mark of tkaO-C
-S \-
The paat for me that He had born.
Take up thy cross and follow me
I hear the blessed savior call
And Jesus gave his all
My cross 1 carry till the crown appears
And though my journey soon will end
21 LUM 197 A
And God himself can wife away our tears
And fellowship
W: Inaudible
B: Inaudible
B: MUSIC ENDS
B: Larry, this is the second interview with you that l've done
W: ia The last one was in Pembroke, North Carolina
B: light.
W: And now w e' in D.C.
B: Right. But this shows your tremendous interest in music and that
you really work at it and that you do have a genuine interest. About
how many of these records do you think you have?
W: Irve got a h
B: i
W: But the majority of them skip, and, wll" it'speen o"oer a year since
JCDfeeen up here last and I fired it up then, but I diyt' play but
one or two.
B: lbrdas All these were quite old records. This shows that you have
a $deep and abiding interest in music and, of course, this talent
dates back br among your family. Larry, wvDebeen listening to all
these sold records on thi very old machine. This machine is probably
ab t 70 years old, and some of the records re almost that old or maybe
that old. And now, we want to switch for contrast and listen for a moment
to some of the modern music. You can see that there are some similarities
but there is quite a switch--quite a bit of difference in the rhythm,
wouldn't you say?
W: Yes.
22 LUM 197 A
B: ft now who is this you're going to put on there?
W: The Doobie Brothers.
B: The Doobie Brothers.
W: The title of the song is "Nobody".
B: "Nobody", by the Doobie Brothers. This is quite modern. This is ,
would you caL this hard rock, Larry?
MUSIC BEGINS
B: Of course, this is electrically ampli ied with all electric instruments,
just about. MUSIC ENDS
W: That'some of the Doobie's. Let's see if I can find another one. Hed e
one I like.
B. *t \/ -, -
W. .....very much.
B: Wh s the name of it Larry?
W: "Greenwood Creek".
B: And it's sy the Doobie Brothers?too? Okay.
MUSIC BEGINS
B: Of course, this electrically alified recording and electrical
instruments and everything Just to show you they really are improved,
aren't they?
W: Right. MUSIC ENDS
B: Larry, I sure appreciate your giving me this interview. It s een
W very enlightening and very enjoyable and I want to thank our aunt
and your grandmother ofrcourse, for allowing to come into your home,
to their home here
END TRANSCRIPT
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