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PC 1,A R C-0 |R

Subject:. Rev. Toby Crosby and wife Lyla

Interviewer: M. Hansinger

Date: 2/17/76

Place: Palatka

sj


H: ...test, test, one, two, three, four, test. Palatka, seventeen

February, '76, test out.

(Break in tape)

Let me ask you, Reverend, where were you born, what settlement,

where?
T: I was born, I was born in Columbia, South Carolina. Yes, sir,

I was born in Columbia, South Carolina, January the twenty, uh,

January ) eJh i t-yJLtifet- nineteen, uh, 1855.

H: 1855 yes sir, uh huh. And, go....

T: Well, it, no, yeah, yeah, 1850....

H: Five.

L: Four.

T: Fifty-four.

H: (l ), uh huh.

T: Fifty-four, fifty-four.

H: Reverend Crosby, who was your momma and daddy,?

T: My iQjmVa name Seely ,T and my dad name ROb_ .

H: And what did they do?

T: My daddy was a, what they call a chauffeur, now. A

My mother was what you call a house guard, she'd look out for the
house, r .ik4 C'lod e OJA1 .4 My grandmother was the cook.

H: Uh huh. Grandmother was a cook.

T: Yeah, right in master /ard. I was bornmf f r(Cr hkv/- i\
he, y. f a. A -I IJ J





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4: And what was master's name?

T: My master?

H: Yes.

T: \I I TO I a^py t You see, he named me.

H: And what was his last name?

T: His wife?

H: No, his last name.

T: It was Crosby.

H: Crosby. Uh huh. Reverend, let's think back when you were a

little, just a little child, what's the earliest thing you remember?

T: \- 6, I remember the young miss, used to, they used to

have what they call a hamper then. You know, a

awn hamper, and uh, my granddad, my granddad had to put a stick

under the C~veT( I remember t1ja telling me that. And

then my young miss, she, blond hair, you know, and it ___

over, and they kept me r-ight-behind the house.

H: So they, they th iked up this hamper with a stick through the

middle of it, and they carried you around in this.

T: Yeah, carried me like in a buggy.

H: Like it was a buggy.

T: Yes, sir, I was just a little baby

H: Uh huh, and then, let's think about some other things you remember

when you were a little bitty boy. Let's think way back when you

were a little bitty boy, let's think about some of those other

things you remember from that farm and from those days when you

were a little bitty boy.

T: I, I never .)g/ uOi)0r NOji lJ ,I*





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T: I didn't go nowhere but right there in the yard with them. See,

I don't go out in the corridors. And

young miss carried me down. She, she wanted

to ride around, she'd take me anyway. She had a buggy then, I

remember the buggy

H: That's good.

T: on the top.

H: Had what on the top?

T: The driver.

H: The driver, uh huh. That was, that was your daddy's job, right?

T: Huh?

H: That was your daddy's job.

T: My daddy's job.

3: Way up on top, uh huh.

T: Yeah, he got, took a walk

and he got the in his foot.

H: He froze his foot?

T: Yeah, see, he was up on the top. Master

he thought the war was coming through Columbia,

but the war ,jif of lu ~.6 4t in Augusta, and asked him to come

on around on back, and

And it was cold ED14, see, and he's up top there, and his foot

got pretty bad.

H: Well, Uncle Toby, that's mighty interesting, that is mighty

interesting, and do you remember when your daddy got his foot

froze like that, do you remember when it happened?

T: No, they told me about it.

H: They told you?





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T: Uh huh.

H: And all of you all stayed in Columbia then, during the war?

T: Yeah, yeah, right there on the master's 4-C4i'

H: Uh huh. I K J*') 46'V.

T: And n oLh6!nd ;"s^
H: Yeah.

T: Then j h41w Cc. *

H: Well, do you remember, you were just a little boy then, maybe

five or eight or ten years old, but do you remember any of the
talk about the war, how they was talking about it?
T: Huh?

H: Remember how they, what they, you were just a little boy, of course,

but do you remember the war talk, what people were saying about it?

T: S I was quite small then, ofe d 'I -" T time, you

see, and Kv d) \/eO s often ) r d r
So.jo; o ; ; 1
" / sit by the fireside and talk and cut up, youjknow, but I remember.

I always keep good memory.

H: That's good, uh huh.

T: Then on up there, but things happened that I c noot -o,
can't remember. But I can remember things way back there. 2ys ;r.
H: Reverend Crosby, when the war did come to Columbia, and they burned

the town, they burned the town, sort of towards the end of the
war. Do you remember them talking about it then?

T: The end of the war?
H: Yeah, when....

T: At the end of the war?

H: Yeah, and they burned down Columbia.




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T: At the end of the war, 4.u' /O ) 5g ) ( v. everybody was

free. But master, what we call, we call then.

H: 7-s I-eai.-

T: Now they call it sharecropp.M.

H: Yeah. i

T: See, and when he take us all in .hrpoirteRFe-

p' it f tths and then he furnished the food. See, and

the, and the folks, they, they worked and tend the

crops, gather the crops. Andhe'd sellAcrop. And what, whatever

he said about the price, you a~4tb accept that. And sometimes

some of them tt come out to where you owe 5o M ch Oj/& so c kcI )

pY didn't come out good. Some f them just come out a dollar,
or fike -Wk
two dollars, five dollars,Aand some of them don't come out at

all. Or like that Abraham Lincoln

got hold of it.

H: Uh huh.

T: And he break up that .

why doesn't just

get out there and I remember good YlV L
S6'-ct t~0 c a uA4"<- My dad couldn't get around, but my

uncle atni awtLqi

snow and a long stick, I remember that good. And 00 (til

go out there and look under logs andfp/gd bushes, and they'd

find rabbits, and quails and things, put it in a sack. And

after again, you'd

get pepper grass, oh, that'd make the best cabbage

greens you ever want. And



. .. . . .,





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T: palmetto trees up there, climb up there and get the heart of it,

(I50O I remember that good.
H: Uh huh.

T: And 'cause the

spank you on the hand.

H: How, about how old were you long about then?

T: (p (1 4 didn't know, she wasn't
my age, tell me about it

in my room, and this is never used to tell about it.
when I was a year old, she

and give me a heavy spankW.

-a4d 4 L mJndmother said, wasn't, if it wasn't, if it was freedom,
just you hit you right hard.

just know she'd break something in me,

didn't do nothing. And then she dressed me up, and she, she

up ever since




H: Uh, let me, let me be sure that I understand this now. Why was

it she took you by the ear and spanked you?
T: Well, I was, I was a year older, now, that's my birthday.
H: You were one year old?

T: One year old.

H: Uh huh, and got....

T: S ~/ /e fi/e the first birthday, and I'm telling you,

H: All right. Now, back, back about this time, you were telling me
H: All right. Now, back, back about this time, you were telling me






PC 1A 7

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H: about catching these rabbits.and quail.

T:

H: Uh huh.

T: dress it up good, and get some

green moss, and dig a hole, and cover it up, and

go and gets, one or two go and get it. And just
like you would put in a Frigidaire.

H: Do, do you remember doing all of this?

T: Huh?

H: Were, were you doing this too?

T: Was me?

H: Yeah, were you helping them?

T: No, my uncle &OV 0.0 was doing it.

H: They were doing it.

T: Uh huh.

H: Uh huh. Was this before the war, or during the war...?

T: Oh, that was after the war.

H: After the war. Like, when time....

T: After, after

H: After freedom. Uh huh. And times got, times got hard.

T: XgQ4., worked under him, my mother and, 4 y\ UAi dlC ci- G Lcc

worked under him, it was three years before he ever


H: Uh huh.

T: And Yeah, she got a____ od -

C 4 Z/)? of bonnet. Said I was big for a young man. Young
fellows coming up, and boys laugh at me, and I always cut off





PC 1A 8
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T: C6,uK(,-1 \AM- 14C hie^ a ^^p '
Cut off the and I commenced to wearing

caps. Growing &yI/ l) i-P uAIL ai d [ /1/ 4 grandchild
about seventy-five years old. Now see how my hair grows now?
H: Uh huh.

T: On 1i side here?
H: But it was bald on top when you were little?

T: I was clean-headed, just like all over.
H: Sure enough.

T: 1-W t &)ti kh1[4 seventy five years old a little gjmsrbL
saw us and a little boy didn't believe it. Said, they're-cutting
hair. [o \iO ish1- PI 01 47 ai Wr let

my hair grow out. I wondered what you had it cut off,but I


H: Well, Uncle Toby, this is so interesting, I want you to know that-
this is just fine. Now, let's stop and think again about what
happened after the war, what did you all do for a living? You
all were farming, and cropping, and what were you all raising,
what crops?

T: We raised peas, corn, potatoes, and, um, all o( 0 of
and, and have a hog \0y OUl' /" (f0/

5 fC-, you lost it
what's the, in the pen, what happened to this one? See


bull, is a heifer calf,
she has a boy calf, and I can free her.
use all her in the morning, in the afternoon, you put




PC 1A 9

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H: Mighty, mighty interesting. Tell us some more about all such as
that, about how you all farmed it, and shared, and who got to
do what.
T: WuCI, V< >& he furnished usA-t-&a fQ z

fi /hjdp, he furnished us with food. See?
H: And the, and the house.
T: 1 ri9 A and you do the working and the
farming. And you gather the crops. Then you it up, and he
do the selling. And whatever he say you owe him. Sometimes juS

4hk*come out of h a heavy crop. But you dotn-t know what OlC m.(ae.
lef- ./ You don't know how much \/Oit ~4 kC-, y oU dO kaoQ
what he give you. And that's how that was, y f~1F l CA. i\ ,(f
-,i.?' b1'!', ,v ..o1 r, share of crops.
H: And, and what about cotton :a those days, were you all raising
much cotton?
T:
H: Cotton? Cotton. Were you all raising cotton?
T: Cotton?
H: ahV\ I( \J, J
T: Oh, yes. s yesyes, sir. Yes sir/ Bales and bales of cotton.
But you don't ever
H: Uh huh. And keep the, keep the accounts. Uh huh.


H: How, how many people lived on the Crosby place, do you reckon?
All together.
T: On the plantation?
H: Uh huh.











T: Well, I don't know, I CO cL I < bCt6,5 If LtJ

big, big plantation. Big plantation.

H: Um hmm. Well, let's think back now, and think about how you

came, came along growing up as a young man, and, and tell us

about those days, all right?

T: \j1Pr ( 'I after freedom, then, then they have what

they call a, a president then, who overlooked CWLd 4-L t 5' Us

off into counties. Set it off in counties then. And then

everybody raised your own cow, your own hog, and to have your

own barn and raise your own meat. I used to preach off that.

When they first cut it off. Started folks


one man, and two man,

and then you have to
i -i


buy from them, raisingg hogs, cnlcKen

can't raise chickens

you go out in the yard there and kill what you want. Go to your

barn, get your meat, but now you got to go to the store now to

get it.

H: It's one thing in here that I don't understand, and you're gonna

have to tell us about it. When did it change over from this

lean system to this other county system, like you're talking

about? When did that change over?

T: When did that change over?

H: Uh huh.

T: That's when A__0 _, -_-- come, come down. And, and.

H: Who? When who came down?

T: And break it up. L J/,ti//, VO


S..





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H: Oh, yes, uh huh. After the war, then it changed.

T: After the war, you know, < Ce eZ 4 free, but

yet you's a-working on what you call a share's crop, what you

called Ica% then.

H: Okay, and what happened to change that?

T: Well, he, he got hold of it,. got working on-'tMZ

',-ipgs sl aves-.

H: cS slaves, uh huh. So, did you all get to own your own

land, did you get your own land to, to own, or was it just kind

of divided up, or what?

T: No, ou doit Odiv'ct i. '5b do what he says. You see,

you a the crop and put it in the barn. And then you, you

however he's managed it, he'll take it outside to

and sell it out.

H: Okay, uh, Reverend Crosby, now, let's start thinking about when

you were a young man, when you grew up to be a young man. And,

what were you doing for a living then?

T: For a living?

H: Yeah.

T: Farming.

H: Uh huh. When you grew up, like when you were maybe twenty, twenty-

one years old, and all, you were farming?

T: Well, then I worked twenty-one in there.

I was, quit farming then. You see, then, used to have ____t___i___

then.

H: A what?

T: Coo-ler', where










Uh huh.


big job, and you sign here, I'll

your job. But I call that.man, he called me a fe;-, see?

Uh huh.

So I'm recruiting men ,, ^7 b to you and your job.

Uh huh. So you, you became a recruiter, did you?

I, I, they carried me from Columbia to south,

to Charleston, South Carolina to a phosphate mine.

To a phosphate....

Phosphate (P{d rOLk mine.

Phosphate mine near Charleston.

Yeah.

Uh huh.

",- I).s Ca.Aed Charleston mine.

And then, and then what?

And then, and he told me, he say, I was / $(/ 1e *

And then I told him that I could tote water for the men, if they
would give me so much every week.

Yes.

You see, but there was another man who-they call Big

Brown. He liked it, and he took me in with him. And I was about

fifteen or sixteen years old then, or seventeen, and I worked

along with him, until I got, got to, get to a place I could do

some of the same work myself. See, wasn't getting but two dollars

a, a carl then. You, you picked your rock, and then you loaded

it up on the, on the flat car. See, it was a big old long





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T: flat, flat car, and then, it's three foot from the top, two in

the C t-( and, and on the hip, it had to be two feet.

See, it comes down like that on each side. And from

one end to the other, if you get two dollars price.

H: For picking it and loading it.

T: Uh huh.

H: Uh huh. And you were about sixteen, seventeen at the time, that's

mighty hard work.

T: I, I tote, I tote water a while, and then he took me in and I,

I helped him load and then I thought I

by. Had to load it up on the, on the car.

H: Uh huh.

T: Uh huh.

H: So, so you worked up. Well, after this work at the Charleston

mine played out, then wheie did you go?

T: Where I go? When I leave there?

H: Uh huh.

T: I didn't just from that,
-VO Florida, 7, 7 7 g ,

H: W,.I, that's mighty interesting. How old were you when you first

came to Florida? -

T: When I was first, I was em--here Paholit, ,Aess- S-

'can-geL, ume ~hTe'e about twenty or twenty-one years old.

H: And where did you first come to in Florida?

T: I first come to Newberry, Newberry.

H: And what....

T: And I leave from there, and then I, I went back to New, 0_






PC 1A


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T: New Orleans. Um hmm. Yeah, Pensacola,

then from Pensacola to New Orleans.

H:: Uh huh.

T: I stripped cane there.

H: Stripped cane?

T: I got one of my 6/d knife now, and the other one, my big

knife, just burned up. right here, in the house

here. See, now I need a house, for this is too small, and



H: Oh, it's a, it's a, well, it's a mighty nice house, though, and

mighty pretty. Miss Lulu keeps it looking mighty pretty.

Congratulations to you, Cea-f

T: But we ain't got a sitting room or nothing in here.

H: Well, you have a mighty nice porch here, though, with the sun

coming in and lots of flowers all over the place, that's just,

that's just fine.

T: have a lot of

company.

H: :Have a lot of company, and here's a vase of flowers says "Happy

Birthday." Somebbdy's thinking of, whose birthday was that?

L:

T: 4. j Ahave a nice time

L:

H: Well, still and all, what's left is so pretty.

L: R r .,b

T:

H: o 2o,4-vjjh,, Reverend Crosby, let's think back when you first






PC 1A 15

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H: came to Newberry. What did you do for a living in Newberry?

T: I was working on a hard rock hine.

H: Working on hard rock mines, uh huh. And that's digging up rock

and shipping it out? What kind of equipment were you all using?

T: Pick and shovel.

H: Pick and shovel. And of course, wagon$ Yauled out with wagon,

T:

H: Uh huh. How about mules and scoops and such?

T: Mules and

H: Mules and.... i rc

T: \=A.h /mz- DbcH( Y"i4cJ OK that, we used to

use nothing but ox and cart.

H: Oxgf cart, uh huh.

T: And some of them cut out, working

square, get a big log, and cut _

about six inches wide,

and dig out the heart of it and make a wagon out of it.


H: I'm not sure I understand that. Let's see, you, what, what are

we going to make, a yoke, or are we gonna make a wheel, or are

we gonna make a wagon, what is it we gonna....we start out with'

this big log, and what we gonna make with it?

T: When

H: What, what you're talking about, uh huh.

T: Oh. We made, made cart.

H: I see. Start all over and tell me how you make a cart, please.

T: Well you see, drive a hole e.t -a-rC o 4jP. ,>- 'y wood.





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H: Yeah.

T: And then you put a, you get almost all the way through the

hickory tree. You'll get the hickory,and then you'll, then

you'll chop it down so to fit that hole in there, see?

H: That's your axle?

T: That's your axle for the wheel.

H: Okay. h1 3

T: And then you'll strike two f v to it....

H: Uh huh. Uh huh. Out of hickory, too?

T: Huh?

H: Did, hickory? Did you like to make the shafts out of hickory, too?

T: Hickory too, yes.

H: Then you have your two shafts, you have your axle....how about

your wheels, are those wheels from the....

T: That's your.wheels.

H: Wheels is out of the hickory, hickory wood?

T: You, you put a hole in that, that tree, out i a pine tree.

See? And ~ /t f}t put, 9j/p4' put the axle in there, see?

And then you put your, your two shafts on it, see?

H: Uh huh.

T: Then you back your oxen in there. And hitch it up there, So \~M I,0-

1 AJ yoke. See? And then, you get in it, andAyou
"ffi on.

H: How....

T: Lke /-7 > ,1 >' ..after-the war, you see.

H: How many, yeah, after the war. Now, for, you all would use these

oxen now for what kind of work. Are we still talking about





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H: Newberry, and hauling that rock at Newberry?

T: Thomas-,'- used to be a
h y u.M Mf.*'-t' rin^ .
man called Thomas. Used to, in Jacksonville, h-Watw -L nm-ht

1-1tne--

H: Uh huh.

T: And all you got to do when you were digging, load it up, 'cause

most of them wouldn't want to dig.

H: Uh huh. How....

T: Most of them wouldn't like to dig.

H: How many oxen would you use for, how many teams, to haul rock?

T: Huh? To haul rock?

H: Yeah, how many oxen are we talking about? Two, or four, or six?

T: Oh, uh, what was it? Uh, I forgetgihoI MYY&M.

H: Uncle Toby, what I mean....you tell me about the oxcart, you see,

and you all are hauling this heavy, hard rock at Newberry, and

how many oxen would you use for one cart?

T: Didn't have but two.

H: Didn't have but two, uh huh. So then you went to Pensacola,

after Newberry. You were telling me you went to Pensacola

after Newberry.

T: Um hmm.

H: 'Bout how long did you stay in Newberry all together before you

went to Pensacola?

T: Well, I don't know, we stayed there, oh, a good little bit 'round

there. Around Newberry.

Suwannee River.


H: Uh huh.





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H: And what were you doing at the Suwannee River?

T: That's where the mill was.

H: Grind up the rock?

T: Uh, the mill is where we got to grind up the rock, and ship it

down to Jacksonville, and it was a train, Ktee po
Syou know, and ship it back. But they had a
big m'rit, giai da g there, said I was supposed to drive down

to the, to the Suwannee River, there. And then it was carried

up there to Jacksonville to the big mill to grind it up, and


H: Oh oh. So we, what we're talking about it phosphate in the old

days. Phosphate, reckon?

T: Yeah.

H: Uh huh. Well, now, Uncle Toby, Vjhl how long you were

in Newberry, two years, five years?

T: a '*,.. ~A I reckon about -hyo Vos dIv( %,! ,,

H: Uh huh. And then, how did you travel to Pensacola from Newberry?

T: Well, I said, you had to have horses.

H: Uh huh.

T: And buggy.

H: Had horse and buggy. Well, what.'.
T: Riding in the back of that.

H: Well, how did, how did you go to Pensacola, though? I, I, let's

think back, like we were with you on the trip, and you tell....

T: No, on the boat.

H: On the boat. From where?

T: From Pensacola to New Orleans.





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H: And, but to get from Newberry to Pensacola, how did you go?

T: We, we come, traveled by horses.

H: Uh huh. Horse and wagon. Ovbhoh

T: Yeah.

H:. Where all did you stop on the way. That's a....

T: W I, I just stop, but I never did

v)3 Cr of-e 4C. rVlaCcs 1MeS. A stop overnight.

H: Stop overnight.

T: And sometimes just stop places and swap horses.

H: Uh huh.

T: Uh huh.

H: And kind of camp overnight?


H: Sometimes camp out. Well, what did Newberry look like when you

first saw it, when you came there the first time?

T: Ci^M 1,) /Cikci 1,V6C d I U~-e d just

like Bostick Bostick.

H: Like Bostick? Uh huh

T: Yeah.

H: Like Bostick is now?

T: Yeah, like Bostick is now.

H: Would you, would you explain what Bostick is like now, for this?

L: Oh, Bostick is very....

H: I need you closer. C

: Bostick is a very small town, uh,Aa post office, a gas station,

that's about it, I think, it's come. You can go through it in

about a minute and a half. Um...





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H: Thank you, Nancy Trescott, for that accurate vignette of

present, lovely, downtown Bostick. Uh, now then, Uncle Toby,

remember when you first saw Pensacola. Now, let's think, you

were on, you first got into Pensacola. What did that town look

like in those days?

T: Well, it was kind of seaboat" kind of town. Like,

H: Uh huh.

T: The town was down on the river.

H: Kind of a seaboat town, down on the river.

T: A seaboat town.

H: Uh huh. Lot of ships?

T: the boats stay out


in the, the shipboats stay out in the ocean.

Uh huh.

B/It tugboat to carry things from the

dock out there to the ocean, and load the, the 9i 01, O 'c

And load on the ships out there. What was they loading?

Huh?

What were they loading?

Oh, lumber, and all such as that.

Uh huh. How old a young man were you then, reckon?

I don't know, I never got to of my age,

I got me

Uh huh, but you was a grown man, were you not?

Yeah, I was a young man.

But a young man. A young man, um hmm. Well, born in 1855, and

if you were maybe twenty or twenty-five, say twenty-five at the


H:

T:



H:

T:

H:

T:

H:

T:



H:

T:

H:





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H: time, that would make it 1880, about 1880. Uh, did the ships

in the harbor, some of them was steamboats. Was some of them

sailboats?

T: Mostly all of them was sailboats, the steamboats come later on.

H: Uh huh.

T: So you'll sail by, some of them, in the

by the water. But then, later on, they put up a flag,
see, and travel by water, by air, and water. See, then, have

mostly all the time, they traveled by water. Wasn't no, wasn't

no train or nothing then.

H: Uh huh. So, well, let's think about Pensacola now. When you,

what, what work were doing in Pensacola?

T: Pensacola?

H: Uh huh.

T: Well, I was working with another man in the city there.

H: Uh huh. Doing, what kind of wcrk, Uncle Toby?

T: I'd clean up the yard, and help him Itu stuff in

the store out in the front ) 4C vwo0i/5 j';d A out there.

H: Uh huh. General, general types of work, hauling, and clearing

and such. Okay. Uh, so these tugboats that you're talking about,

they t6w these big ships from out in the Gulf, they tow, tow them

in to where they're gonna be docking down on the, on the waterfront.

Is, is, do I understand that, is that what you mean?

T: Yeah, yeah, that's the tugboats. They come to the dock, Jeu $ 4, i

big boats can't come up there, cause the channel is not deep

enough.

H: Oh, the channel, uh huh.





PC 1A 22

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T: They come up to the dock. To pull a little rope and tighten

that line /And the wind gets in the back of it. See?

H:- Uh huh. That's how, that's how it worked, and were they....

T: And been blowgti that

goes to land.

H: Uh huh. And did you ever travel on one of those sailing ships?

T: Yes sir.

H: You did?

T: Sure.

H: Good, good. Tell me about it. From where....

T: I got me, it got two decks.

H: Yeah.

T: One's on top, and one's in the bottom.

H: Uh huh. And where did you travel from and to?

T: Huh? Oh, I, I traveled from, I traveled from Jacksonville to

New Orleans, and I was you see, we changed

and we changed boats, and go.on over tp New Orleans.

H: Between Jacksonville and New Orleans?

T: Yeah, when I was in Florida then.

H: Changed boats somewhere?

T: Yeah, we changed boats.

H: You reckon it was Key, Key West?

T: \AIVk d'n)Q{,, t4V c r, -/0 ,p4 acTh?0

H: Uh huh. Apalach....

T: And after Apalach, you catch a boat there, and you go on to

New Orleans.

H: Uh huh.




PC 1A

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T: Uh huh.

H: Apalachicola, in the old days. Uncle, Uncle Toby, I'm gonna

talk to Miss Lulu now for a few minutes and give you a chance

to think some more about this without talking, and you can

rest just a couple of minutes, and be thinking about it, 'cause

I'm, I'm gonna come back to when you left Pensacola, hear? and

I'm gonna be talking with Miss Lulu now for just a couple of

minutes.

L: You ain't got nothing

H: Huh?

L: I don't know...-

H: Well, you can tell me where you, you can tell me where you were

born, and you can tell us about your folks.

L: I was born in South Carolina.

H: Okay, where in South Carolina?

L: Early Branch.

H: Early Branch. Uh huh.

L: N-A-R-L-K B-fi -- h ./ Cf 4 Early Branch.

H: Uh huh. E-A-R-L-Y, and Branch. Uh huh. What is that near,

Miss Lulu?

L: Near Yemassee, South Carolina.

H: Near Yemassee, uh huh. And what year was that? Birthday and

year?

L: Oh, it was May the fifth.

H: May the fifth. what year?

L: It was 1884.

H: 1884. Mighty nice. And tell us, who your folks were, your

momma and dad....










L: My father's name William Mixon, my mother's name, Diana Mixon.
H: Uh huh. And where were they from?
L: They were from ,-, L/uth-t- Q. CaYo( aa.,
H: Um hmm. Was there, back in those days, was there any Indians
left in that part of South Carolina?

L: AN6A, E aO'V It w c U - 41Q, o
H: Um hmm. Because it's a few, a few Cheraw Indians, but they are
not all that close to Yemassee.
L: Hmm.

H: Uh huh. You heard about the Cheraw Indians, have you not?

i- Uh huh. Did you ever know a-ny of them?
L: No.

H: Well, there's not many of them left. Well, anyway, let's just
kind of in a easy, friendly sort of way tell us about when you

were a little girl and what you remember, and what you learned
and....
L: U6e, +2 Cnik LCI'iCe m 41ie VA ceUUI -0 sele

_7_ rI b eF5 4vo ,- white people and the tribes ~
4 the fort.
H: I need for you to talk a little louder, please, Miss Lulu.

L: Okay,,used to pick berries, 4W4/V .Yl little girl~)x"t go out
and pick berries and sell them to the white folks .-FI'e C lf5

-S 0 car-
H: What kind of-berries?
L: Black berries.

H: Uh huh. And tell us about raising up.
L: Oh, I was raised on a farm.




PC 1A 25

sj


H: Big farm?

L: Um hmm.

H: How many people on it, reckon? Ten, twenty, fifty?

L: About thirty-five.

H: Uh huh. What did you all raise on the farm?

L: Cotton, peas, corn o T t0 ' watermelons...

H: Cotton? Cotton, and....

L: Yes.

H: And what was, what, cotton and what else? Watermelon?

L: Yes.

H: Peas,

L: Potatoes and corn, peanuts.

H: Uh huh. Was, was life pretty, pretty pleasant?

L: Well, we did pretty good. In 1900, well, they didn't, people
AV. p cr e+-, you Uoj?
didn't have anything to do,ARoosevelt was t lhw^-ba4



H: Yeah.

L: 4ffAnd we had to cook greens without meat, we didn't have

any meat, it was all greens.

H: When Roosevelt was president in 1900....

L: Roosevelt V\tJ pry-(t e *-.

H: His, yeah, uh huh. That was a bad time. Why was it a bad time?

L: I don't know. Couldn't tell, I know you couldn't get.. q -4 ,

y-fathiey 0 0 tI ,O r nothing to eat, I know.
H: It sounds like a bad depression. They had, they had a couple

of bad depressions in there. Sounds like it might have been

one sWAeI of ^ .




...............~--- - ---.U---,I~,-.---;- --,-,.,,,~,,, ~ iY~i;




PC 1A Ao

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L: In 1900.

H: E~l the year of 1900,-uh huh. Well, they, they went to

war with Spain then. Do you remember any, any talking about that?

L: No, I don't.

H: Um hmm. And when did you and Reverend Crosby get married?

L: In 1908.

H: In 1908? And where was that?
ajd^ led u.f,
L: %4t" i Florida.

H: Where, where is that?

L: A Lakeland) /en miles from Lakeland, Florida.

H: And what was Mr. Crosby's business then?

L: He was a, on a, he was a gunner at the phosphate mine.

H: He was a gunner?

L: Yes.

H: At the mine, at the phosphate mine. What does a gunner do?
WOl,'.
L: He said heAshootf the water up, shoot rocks with the water.
I&'41 r\^ (,' < y o or f stand, there,, a ^ .? ^- .. g^r

shoot at the water and the rocks will come up.

H: Stand with a hose, uh huh, and, and hose the rock with the water,

and that loosens up the rock. So this water, this hose has a lot

of power and a lot of pressure, uh huh. And let's see, what year

did you say that was, 1908?

L: Um hmm.

H: And how long.'...

L: met in the same month we married in the

same month.

H: Met and married in the same month. Isn't that, isn't that fun?




PC 1A 27

sj



L: Met the first of November and married on the twenty-seventh of

November.

H: Seem like, seem like, met on the first of November, married on

the twenty-seventh. Seems like the marriage has taken hold,

wouldn't you say?

L: Well, we've been together ever since.

H: Been together ever since, and that's....

L: That's sixty-seven years.

H:: Sixty-seven years now. That's marvelous. Congratulations,

congratulations, that's marvelous. And Reverend Crosby looks

just fine, and I'm sure that it's due to your help and support

and taking care of him, and I might say, Miss Lulu, that you
threC
don't look like a ninety-,gfi year old lady at all. You look

like a much younger lady. Now, uh, tell us about how long did

Reverend Crosby work as a gunner there in Polk County?
he, he 30 ad C{hI c WJC, I\4.
L: Well, ,qvj!9 was thereAten years hf m e tkry.

H: And, and then what happened? ae

L:: I don't know where the other Is V0 ,. I met him at



H: At Christina?

L: Um.

H: Uh huh. And....

L: That's about three miles from^, *4 Iuc. 1 ) L" uI:6c.

H: And then, uh, where did you all take, move to and work next?

L: Lakeland, Florida.

H: Uh huh, in Lakeland, so, what was the first year you all went

to live in Lakeland?


~''I-- -~'--~~- - - )----'---- --t---~; .I11- -l--r~------r- --I---
"~"'\ ~~ -"~X"I I-ir~-,.-a~lrc~r~ *j ~-~rt~,.~~.,r.- r~. i~r~~~-~~.. .;.~,x..,.~._,....~ ~..~..




PC 1A 28

sj


L:

H:: Well, be maybe about ten years after you all got married? Was it

during the First World War?

L: It was before 1918.

H: Before 1918. What did Lakeland look like now? Let me tell you

what I mean, Miss Lulu. Let's say,let's say that the four of

us are walking down the main street of Lakeland when you all

first got there, and tell us what it looked like.

L: /< 4 / Ve%5 4 beautiful city. And LASed

/7 O take me a aaf%4t 41fl Q clothes....
H: Used to take your car-and haul clothes, uh huh.

L: On the main street, but I couldn't do that now, too crowded.

H: Used to have your cart with the clothes and the laundry, and had

have it on Main Street, and....

L: No, I'd pick up my clothes from the white people, and take them

home and launder them.

H: And you couldn't do that on the main street of Lakeland now.

Couldn't do....
LaiikdomA JC a-
L:A fig city now.

H: When were you, have you kept up with Lakeland through the years?

L: Yes. Go back and forth, different towns. And my children was

born in Lakeland.

H: Your children was born.pyVHow many children do you all have, Miss

Lulu?

L: e/xiV_ e_ ( two living.

H: Two living.

L: Yes, Mp six dead.





PC 1A 29

sj


H: And six, you've lost six?

L: Yes.

H: Well, I'm sorry to hear that. Um, how old were they when they

died?

L: Some just went right on.

H: SPme went right on just not long after they were born. And how

many raised up to be grown up?

L: Two.

H: Just two. And who are they?

L: One's Johnny __, my baby, he lives in the back.

H: Lives in the back here?

L: In a house around the back. And my daughter lives in,* Jersey,

in the north.

H: Uh huh. And what is her name?

L: Lovie Mae Matthews.

H: Her, what is her first name?

L: Lovie Mae.

(train whistle in background)

H: Lovie Lee?

L: Lovie Mae. Lovie Mae. Lovie Mae Matthews. Train coming up)

Srom Georgia.

H: Oh, that'S the....

(train whistle)

H: Miss Lulu....explains that that train whistle is the Georgia

Southern coming down from Georgia. Now, I'm not sure about your

daughter's first name. Lady Lee?

L: Lovie) L-0-V-I-E M-A-E. Lovie Mae.





PC 1A 3

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H: Oh, Lovie Mae. Well, what a sweet name. And her last name is

Matthews. And do you all have grandchildren?

L: Great-grand.

H: Great-grand. How many?

L: I think about five.

H: Uh huh. About five all told. Fine, where do they live?

L: In the north, New York and Jersey.

H: They live in the north, uh huh. Well, I think I'm gonna.....


END OF SIDE ONE





PC 1A 31

sj
side two


H: ....you were in Pensacola, and we were talking about the ships,
novJ
and we were talking about your work, and,4tell me when you decided
to leave Pensacola, and where you went to after that.

T: Well, I left Pensacola, I went to 45,f un i

_heard of this great meeting
was over in, in L~ i'L~o I ,, And I caught a boat and

went over there. And I got salvation 6u ? ,Z ,

come into the church there, and then I come on back from there,

back to Pensacola....

H: Unele, Uncle Toby, Uncle Toby, I didn't get the name of the

place where they had the big meeting where you got your salvation,
what's that?

T: T, out there in Indianapolis.

L: Indianapolis.

H: Indian....oh, way up in Indianapolis, uh huh, okay. All right
sir, so you got saved and changed your life, and then you came
back to Pensacola.
T: Cdme right back to Pensacola, and I met a _recrC-?1f* there As* 9
brought me to Florida. Brought me back there to Polk County.

S*. 4 ~r d ( P frao from there,
then I was CO Bipi t'O went back on to Planf System Road,

remember the Plane System?
H: The Plane System Road, uh huh. They were building railroads....

T: Building railroads, and....
vJ4S
H: Where 3Yeri they building this railroad from and to?
T: Oh, they, they, I used to work on it, in Charleston before I COWS-





sj



T: down. I used to work and I used to, used to be

a narrow gauge down in

H: Narrow gauge, yeah.

T: Yeah, a narrow gauge then, until a little before the

Coastline.

H: Uh huh.

T: a2i'dL ep^ mdloi Mr-t W W. fr down on the

coastline,4I used to work on, used to be a pin, and block and

pin then.

H: Block and pin.

T: Yeah. See, tried to back up the engine to the car, and then

you'd take the, the -in and stick it up in the, in the place

like that, and then drop your pin in it.

H: What, what....

T: But now they got the chains from that now, they got a bumper.

H: What do they call the man who does that block and pin work in

those days? what...?

T: That's the only, only on the boxcars.

H: On the boxcars.

T: Yeah.

H: Uncle, uncle....

T: The block and pin is where the fpa,.^

H: Uncle Toby demonstrates with his hands how you couple two boxcars

with this block and pin in the yards, and that's the work that
60
he was doing in Charleston. Okay, Uncle Toby,Aif I understand

you, if I'm wrong, will you correct me, will you please, sir?





. -7 -- .". -......... .... Z'*.,: ... . .. ..- . .. ..-7 - ". :




PC 1A 33

sj

T: Uh huh.

H: If I'm wrong in this. But, if, if I understand you, you left

Charleston and came down to Polk County with the Planj System

Railroad, is that right?

T: Yeah, I worked on the Plan4 System Railroad there.

H: Uh huh, in Polk County?

T: Huh?

H: I/ Polk County?

T: In Polk County.

H: And how old a young man were you then?

T: Well, I don't know, I was getting up pretty and

I, I, well I

H: Somewhere in....

T: The city in, uh, in ninety, ninety Spanish War.

H: When the Spanish War started out. Is that....

T: .,f Anf?-Ic -nine, isn't it? Or ninety, '97.

H: That's mighty close, Uncle Toby, that's mighty close, I think

it was '98. I think it was '98. But, is that when you came to

Polk County?

T: That's when I came to, when I came to Polk County, let's see, I

was And I left from Polk County

and went to Hillsborough County.

H: Went to Hillsborough County, uh huh, and what were you....

T: Uh huh, and I worked in the yard, and

for the, for the railroad. See, section

work you know.

H: Section work, uh huh.

T: In the yard there, and then from there, I come to Polk County,


----~-~'-`;-------n----~.--,- I........ -;,,I..~~..:,,., ;:,,,,:.irv~~~:;-:rr~~;s~-lm~;-~:;- ..::- ..._,I~,:.~~_, d,;,'...,.~ .




PUT CO 1A 34

sj


T: down there to ~iC 0 i_' and then I left,,iga I was staying

at, and then my come down, and I got in touch with

her. :.

H: Got in touch with, with Miss Lula?AAUh huh. Then, uh, how long

did you live in Polk County all together?

T: oh, I Xov'W-t- vlw-w, l- 5 { C ;i i \C (;e'ie/e Oi'#

H: Can't exactly recall. Well, you all moved to Lakeland, and before

1918, and how long did you live in Lakeland?

T: Well, I lived in Lakeland a long time, I think.

H: A long time.

T: Yeah,

she born in Lakeland.

H: How was. that?
T: Lu! ,
--- .- -------------
H: You say, you say, you say you had a home there?

T:OACeah, I had three homes.

H:[ 4'hree homes.

T:

H: And lost them from not paying tax?

T: Yeah, like going off, you know, and come back during the d (e-f$ /

H: During the depression.

T: __ Ve,01 I but I always loved to have my own.

H: Loved to have your own home. And were you, were you preaching

these days, too?

T: Oh, yeah.

H: Preaching from....when did you take up preaching first?

T: I took up preaching in Indianapolis.


_ _; .- -",..--





PUT CO 1A bb

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H: In Indianapolis.
T: Iy Indianapolis.

H: Uhhuh, and have you been a preacher ever since?
T: Yeah, ever since, I been preaching eighty-nine years now.

H: Eighty-nine years now, uh huh. Uh, I'm going to change the

subject now, Reverend Crosby, and Miss Lula, I'm going to change
the subject now, and let's just start thinking about what would,

what would you say was the hardest part of living, of getting

along back when you were a young person? Let's say after the

war, anytime after the war, and you were a young person, and let's

think about those years when you were in your twenties and thirties

and forties, and you too, Miss Lula, in your twenties and thirties

and forties, what was the hardest part of it?

T: L sCe5 C V3 hao a.'3 yR V .., in Jeff Davis' time.

H: In Jeff Davis' time?

T: Yeah,

yO, h a 0 time in Jeff Davis" time.
H: Uh huh. At a time in Jeff Davis' time. And what, what was bad,

what was so bad, and how did you all fix it?
T: Huh?

H: What was so bad about Jeff Davis' time, and....
T: Well, you couldn't get nothing to do.

H: Uh huh.

T: And you don't have nothing to buynothing To
S, 4 ;Te ww 5Tahlin alo-3
now,0. 3% la 4ilC V Oul OV) f %I- &14f r good.J But we, we, those
that were working, public work, but didn't have no

H: Where, where were you living in Jeff Davis' time?







T: Well, I lived

so many, had so many places. /, oCaCL d tfa.Ui e ,,

H: Boca Grtid

T: Bpca Grancj yeah, and Fort Myers and fishing and going

out I done everything

H: Well, that's, this is just so interesting, Reverend Crosby,

because I want to hear about Boca Grang I want to hear about
Fort Myers, this is mighty interesting. But Miss Lula, I want

to ask you, what does Reverend Crosby mean when he's talking

about Jeff Davis' time?

L: -iqc6,5 cI e pjr5ciJ& ,/ voamn't If?

H: Yeah, he was president, but that was, that was during the, during

the war, during the first war, during slavery times, you see.

So he's talking about some other president.

L: what other president, ?

H: Well, now, I need you all to tell me.

L: I don't know anything about back where he come from.

H: Oh.

L: I wasn't

H: Okay, let's, let's think again now, you were telling me times were

so bad during Jeff Davis' time, about how old were you then reckon.

Just a guess how old.

T: ,._ ,-.-_-\ ,_- I think I was A-heL? / 'ke-

twenty-something.

H: Think you were in your twenties?

T: Twenty-something.

H: Twenty-something, uh huh. Thank you, Reverend Crosby, that helps





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PUT CO 1A /

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H: a whole lot. Now tell me, when you first went to Boca GrandV)

reckon what year that was?

T: with all the money

from the boat, and put it out in the sea.
IM kt)he, bha
H: When Flagler put all the moneyAand put it out to sea.

T: Out in the sea. That was during the time of, Jeff Davis time.

H: Now, when Flagler....

T: Yu remember Flagler?

H: Yes, Flagler, you mean the one who built the railroad?

T: No, Flagler

(BREAK IN TAPE.

H: No sir, you go ahead and tell us about the earth quake, Uncle Toby.

Which, which earthquake?

T:

H: Where, where, what...?

T: United States.

H: All over....where were you living when this happened?

T: I was living in Charleston Of ,7 4th-pOenc -

H: And you felt the earthquake in Charleston?

T: ,ad?4j aF0 I think about three years after that, ninety, ninety,


H: That were in '92. Um huh.

L: A 3

T:i ./he earthquake. y-

H: Uh huh.

(Break in tape)


END OF TAPE


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