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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug, 12, 1974
Page I
Interviewee: Phillip A. Bondi Ex-principal of Phillip Shore
Elementary School; Tampa
Date: January 8, 1974 Y f16 414
I: Will you state your name and give me some of your background.
B: Well my name is Phillip Bondi. I was born and raised in Tampa,
64 years ago. I attended the local schools, and in fact I was
Valedictorian of George WashingtoOHigh School in 1926, from this
very same building here, and I attended the old Hillsboroygh High
School for two years, where the old Hillsborough High School was
where the George Washington School is now located, at Highland
Avenue, right next to Columbus drive, that was Hillsborough
High School in those days and it later became Jefferson High
School. And then in the last year, of course they built Hillsborough
High School in Plant. I went to Hillsborough High School and
graduated from...
I: So you graduated from there in 1926, you said.
B: Not from here.
I: Oh this is where...
B: January 1926, here and made High School
Senior'alf year; started, I went to the University of Florida in
1929. In those days you could receive a two year degree known as
a LI degree, normal degree, you could teach with a two year degree.
So I received my LI Degree.
I: Did you get that with the intention of teaching?
B: Yes.
I: So. yoa were interested in education even in those days.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 13, 1974
Page 2
B: I was always interested in education, and ah, so, I
started right here, the early George Washington Junior High
School, right in this building here. We didn't have any trouble
in those days in regards to attending this particular school, or
/
the other particular school, or boundary lines, or your Civil
Rights, or the trouble that were having now because we only had
two Junior High Schools. And everybody on this side of the river
attended this school here and everybody on the other side of the
river went to Wilson, and there was no trouble.
I: By Civil Rights though you were talking about Spanish, Latins.
B: No I'm talking about the trouble were having now with Blacks.
I'm just comparing, they were no trouble at all, of course no
blacks attended white schools in those days. They were all white.
I: Right.
B: And the blacks would agree that the schools were
they didn't have the advantages that white's had
in those days. But to going back from the University of Florida,
then I went, met it hard, I married in 1931 and it was hard for me
to continue my education, so I had to go during Summer School. So
I went 12 straight years to Summer School. And received my BS Degree
and I continued commuting back and forth once a week and other
summer school and other courses, and I received my Masters Degree,
and finally got my Rank One. In those days they received their
Doctoriate or their Rank One. They were totally the same thing,
they paid the same,the courses, the oral and written were the same
thing. All you had to do was take six extra hours instead of writing
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 13, 1974
Page 3
your dissertation or your thesis. So I took six extra hours and I
had my Rank One, but not the title to go with it. You see.
I: Right.
B: I thought here three years, started in 1931, and went to
Franklin Junior High, was there eight years.
I: As a teacher?
B: As a teacher. And from Franklin Junior High I went to Tampa
Junior High, and from West Tampa I got my Rank One. Right at the
University of Florida I received a telegram that I had been appointed
principal of Phillip Shorekunior High School, that was in the summer
of 1949. I had my credentials, I was perhaps, not the first but
one of the first male teacher3to have Elementary Education
Certificate, one of the first to have supervision of Nursery
School, so I imagine that because I was one that did have my certificates,
you know the right certification that I was choose principal. And I
had 13 wonderful years at Phillip Shore.
I: Thirteen years.
B: Thirteen years.
I: Till 1962.
B: Yeah. When I first went there it was strictly Elementary. And
then we gradually added the seventh grade, and the following year
the eighth grade, and the the ninth grade. So we were
the first school within the City of Tampa that had grades one
through nine, in the same building. So I operated two schedules.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lehkway
Aug. 13, 1974
Page 4
one for elementary and one for the junior high. And we had to have
different classroom schedules, different lunch roon schedules, entirely
different curriculum. And we were very interested in the, in
reading in those days, cause I realized that's what they needed
most was improved reading, mostly Latin factions there, and
realizing that they had to __
I: What percentage of students there were Latins?
B: I would say about 80 percent, 80 percent and 20 percent were
Saxons.
I: And about what percentage of the 80 would you estimate could
speack very little, or no English?
B: No, no they ah...
I: They spoke English?
B: They ah, ah, English was spoken, we did not allow the students
to speak Spainish, or Italian, within the boundaries of our schools,
in order to English you have to speak it, and
speak it correctly, that was in class, in class we are doing this,
you see. But not the parents were a different situation, ee most
of thefppga r maybe spoke Spanish and Italian, but the children
they were becoming modernized, that was the beginning I would say,
more or less. And there was a very extensive reading program that
we instituted there, and I think that we increased their proficiency.
And in those days the eight and ninth grade was as far as, they, Y0 J
didn't go to High School, some of them did not go to High School,
they dropped out in the eight and ninth grade and went to work.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug, 13, 1974
Page 5
But we had, I think it was five graduate classes while I was there
and all of them went to High School, every single one of them
attended Jefferson High School.
I: Now I don't understand that too well in terms of time. You
mentioned five graduating classes over a thirteen year period.
B: We were elementary school at the beginning, than I would say
another six, we had six graduating classes in the ninth grade,
see from the ninth when they went to the tenth that was at
Jefferson High School, so it took them three years to become a
fullfledged Junior High School. So the last three years we got
three graduating classes, you see.
I: NOw, right.
B: Because in those days, they don't do it now but in those days
you did have graduation.
I: At the Junior High Level.
B: That's right. We had ceremonies and we had caps and gowns.
And so that's the reason I say the last three years all of them
attended Jefferson High School. Because by that time the parents,
I imagine realized that education was very important, and now they
were saying I want my children to have a better chance than I did,
so because then you see a lot of people going to collages, and
a lot of them were becoming teachers, becoming, going into other
professions.
I: Well before the ah, school had the Junior High grades in it
what did most of the children do after they godthrough- h.the first
six years?
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 13, 1974
Page b
B: They remain in the same building, they went from the sixth
to the seventh and they continued there, in other words they
went their nine years instead of six years.
I: Before the nine year period, you said that I think it was
three years before you got your Junior High School in there
Well during that three year period what would most of the students
do, cause there were only six years?
B: They went straight through elementary school, and than we
added the seventh grade, so we had one through seven, and then the
following year we had one through eight, and the third year was
one through nine.
I: I iee. But what I'm trying to find out is how, what happened
to these people before they could go to Phillip Shore through the
first nine grades. Did they simply drop-out, or did they go to
another Junior High School?
B: No, no they were, we, they were attending, than we changed
our boundary lines and most of the students came from the DeSota
area and from the Gary Area, in other words we got students from
those two areas, because we expanded our boundary lines.
I: After getting your Junior High School in?
B: Yeah, we went up to the Seventh Grade we expanded our lines.
I: Oh another words it was planned for the Junior High School in
Phillip Shore boundaries, and expanded
B: That's because you see this building here was known as George
Washingto Junior High School, and more or less not over crowded but
they had the maximum, they had capacity students here, so that's
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 13, 1974
Pggel
why the Junior High section .
I: At that time for the elementary school kids who were foreignly
Spanish Speaking or Italian speaking, what kind of special programs
did you have, for them? Or did you give them special treatment, or
how did you handle that situation?
B: No, we had the regular curriculum, exactly. The ah, the, we didn't
have the open house set, or the other type program, but we
the two of them allow for, for instance if he was very slow in
math we would assign those students to a good math teacher, more or
less like, I would say we would have some sort of a team teaching
in those days...
I: Was teaching?
B: Well it was something, it was on the small scale of team
teaching, because we got out best teachers to teach those particular
subjects. Like reading for instance we placed them with the best
reading teaching we had at that particular time, the same with
science, and that sort of thing. In the secondary school we didn't
just strictly have the go from one room to the
other, we more or less tried to place them where the need was.
And the elementary school was almsot the same thing, because we had
a few that, for instance in parts of speach they were very poor
in parts of speech and the regular verbs were very, very hard for
them so, I remember one time we had a teacher who had experience with,
experiences in teaching English and in reading, she came to us;-from
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 13, 1974
Page 8
another school, and ah, we used her a lot. We also went into
small groups and those that needed some more, more training. But
the curriculum, the main thing was for the improvement of
all the way around, both from the stand-point of teachers as well
as students.
I: Let me ask you this, this is, I hadn't thought about this but
to day for example, in elementary school structure usually all children
stayed with the same teacher all day long, ...
B: Well in other counties...
I: ... it doesn't sound like you...
B: ... it all depends on the on the, for instance we had a, we
have the kinda schools now they call the IGI
Program, which is under the
Program, and they went into that sort of thing. The open concepts
schools, where more freedom is practiced, and the other schools
still follow the traditional type program, but in that particular
locality, in that section we realized that we had to do more than
just the traditional type schooling, so we branched out, and we
gave them more of what they needed, you see, and it was reading
and Enlish and math.
I: This is what I began to suspect, you were flexible enough ...
B: Very flexible.
I: ... to allow different situations.
B: That's right. And I think that we were one of the very first
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 13, 1974
Page V
that called in outside help. For instance, we had specialized
teachers, we had them from School,
oh we had a lot of them that were specialized, you know the disability
and the gifted, and the learning disability, emotional disturbed
type program, but we didn't have that, but we had like reading
teachers that would come down, come to our school say twice a week
to help those that were real bad, I mean that really needed it. You
see? And that type thing and we saw the need then, I mean there
was nothing new of course, we had these things.
I: Could you describe the Platoon Concept? I'm not familiar with
that?
B: Well the Platoon Concept was practiced at the B.M. Ybor
School. They would have the academic subjects, what we call
academic subjects, subjects in the morning and then in the afternoon
they would place them like so many in art, so many in physi ed, and
other areas, music, and that's what it was, more or less.
I: Why did they call it platoon?
B: Because they just rotated around. I mean they go there so many
weeks in music, and then they, that group would go into art, and
from there they go into phys, ed., and that sort of thing, they
platoon them around. The subjects were there, but they were in
the morning. That's just more or less a saying, because you have
to go according to ability, I mean now you don't do it today, you
see. Some principals will say I will place 1/3 o4fright, 1/3 of
average and 1/3 of slow, but the concepts not that way, I mean it's
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug, 13, 1974
Page LU
the other way. And in our area you have to keep in mind that
English was not spoken in the homes and when we first started.
Now it's the very opposite, I mean Spanish and Italian is not
spoken in the homes, they only speak to the parents, the children
and the father and mother today they speak English in the homes,
we didn't have that in those days, and it was hard because ah,
as I said before, if you dl4tnot understand English the only way
to learn English is to associate with a person that speaks to you
only in English, and the same way in Spanish, you can't learn
Spanish oit of a book, you got to go into some particular Spanish
home and live with them, and let them speak to you in Spanish.
That's the only way to learn.
I: Right.
B: You may learn a few words from a book, but the only way to learn
not only the practical but the is the dialect from
the home.
I: You know I'm interested in this platoon concept and I want to
get this straight. Somebody mentioned it before, somewhere. I
understand that it originated at Ybor School, and about when
did it originate in Ybor School?
B: Well, Mr. -k, was the principal there, F-a-u-l-k, he was the
only, I think Faulk, F-a-u-l-k, was the only male principal in
elementary school, you know because they didn't go into elementary
school. Then another one came...
I: When would this be? The Faulk's? 1900's, 1910's?
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 1974
Page 11
B: He started about the I would say this was the middle '20's.
The middle '20's, because I first came here in 19..., as a student
in 1923.
I: And he was principal then?
B: He was principal then, well he had just started then, there.
So that, he's the one who had this particular system first. Now
another person that you can talk to is Shorty Wilson, are you familiar
with the name?
I: I'm setting-up an interview with him today or tomorrow.
B: Shorty Wilson was principal of B.M. Ybor School, and than from
there he went to be principal of some High School, he was ah, a very
good friend of mine, and he may have a few ideas you
know.
I: I talked with him over the phone and he mentioned the Team
Concept, and said it might have come from Gary, Indiana, and it
sounds like there's a lot of things going on here...
B: Faulk was the one who put in the
Team System. Of course after he left, Shorty added and he kept
on with it. It was a very simple thing, I would say. I mean, see
they had so many students there, oh gosh I think
they had about 1200 or 1400 students in that building there, and
they were, and no playing facilities, no court yard out there, and
in order to, that's whyVthey had to group them as they did. :)So
the Platoon was all there was, I mean. But
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 1974
Page 12
the word, it's a little different now I mean you can say Platoon,
it's used in other areas as ______...
I: I think of a quad of men, but apparently this is... Would
they keep the samegroup of students for the'different activities,
or would they shuffle them around?
B: For awhile. You see for instance, let's say for awhile
for six weeks let's say, this particular
group would be in music, another group will be in phys, ed. and
another group would be in art, another group will be in something
else, see.
I: Would they test people...
B: No...
I: ...how did they determine this?
B: .... no it was just perhaps maybe all sixth graderso start,
or something, all fifth graders, all forth graders, that sort of
thing. And at the end of six weeks they would just rotate around,
you see so they all on the will have music, art and
phys. ed. You see what I mean?
I: SovPlatoon would be everybody taking music for six weeks?
B: Thats... maybe longer maybe less, I don't remember, see, but
that was the idea.
I: But why do that instead of the ordinary method, um everybody,
for example all six graders...
B: By period?
I: ... had music, or by period?
B: Well, it was a little different in the elementary school, we
didn't go by periods in the elementary schools, I mean they were
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 1974
Page 13
strictly a one teacher affair. You stay with one teacher the
whole time, see. Um, and that's what it was and even the
teacher was taken out to phys. ed., she would teach the art, she
would teach the music. Now they have music teach..., special
music teachers, now they have phys. ed. teachers, see but the
teacher had the class the whole time.
I: Ok, this... From what I understand in part, only in:the morning
the student would have music or art...
B: No, no, they have art in the afternoon.
I: In the afternoons they would ably the platoon system, but in
the morning you'd still be studying English, Spanish...
B: Oh yes, they'd be regular elementary schools, the teachers, the
teachers had the students than, you know in regular classes. But
in the afternoons they had these special things, I think it
was strictly more or less because of the enrollment, the large
enrollment.
I: They could handle larger groups of people, this way.
B: That's right.
I: And this was only at Ybor?
B: That's right, that's right.
I: Now, I'd like to get back to dealing with this problem of dealing with the
linguistics, of the Latins and the Italians. You mentioned
that they had to speak English on the school grounds and in the
classrooms. How could you enforce this'issue7 How did you
them to...
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 1974
Page 14
B: It was hard, it was hard, it took us some time to really put
this thought across to the.students, you know, because just
like you say, will they were very forgetful, we'll we didn't
mind that, I mean we ah, we didn't scold them or get after them
for that, we just through, we will have certain programs in an
assembly, for instance bringing out, you know this sort of thing
and ah, through plays maybe, sometimes, and gradually they got
the idea. It really wasn't easy, it took us for, it took us
a while, it took us a while.
I: This is wy very hard to understand just from a couple of
words. I had visions of a sign up on the wall saying "Don't
Speak Spanish."
B: No, no signs.
I: Yet you mentioned things like plays, assemblies.
B: Yeah well,'for distance it was not all teaching in the class-
room, a lot of times you had leisure time and other, other things
that they like to do in the class. For instance each class would
put on a play once a year, or a program once a year, you see, and
we usually had a committee that would write these things oit. If
we wanted to stress citizenship, we wrote a little program on
citizenship, and ah, that was put on in the assembly for the
benefit of all concerned, grades one through six at that time, and
ah if we wanted a program in good manners, well we had it, if we
wanted a program of the importance of speaking English correctly,
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 1974
Page 15
well than we put that on there, or the importance of an education,
ah but we always stressed this, we always stressed herigage, I mean
we always encouraged that, we didn't try to take anything away
from them, because they would resent it, if you did. No the sad
part was that ah, changing conditions, changing times, the necessity
of having a better-chance in life than their parents had, because
the parents did not go to school and now and days in order to
hold a job, in order to do the, in order to be a doctor, in order
to be a lawyer you had to go to school, and with that idea in mind,
see. But, no it was, oh G-d, everytime we were constantly reminding
them and that way, now and days you don't
hear any, you don't hear it. I mean only in very small, you know
once in a while they would forget and speak Spanish within a group,
but they don't... In fact I hate to say this and I get somewhat
perturbed my children and grandchildren don't know any Spanish, they
don't know any Italian.
I: Did you speak Italian? Didn't you? I think you were...
B: Only to my mother.
I: But as a child you spoke fluent Italian?
B: Well not as good as you think I would. You see.
I: You were already starting to loose the....
B: Oh well we spoke English at home. My dad saw
to it that we spoke English, only with mother once and awhile we
would speak Italian. But we ah, we always spoke English, because
we lived in an American neighborhood all our lives.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 174
Page 1b
I: Let me...
B: You see, that was the difference there.
I: Where did you live?
B: I lived not too far from here, in what we called the Tampa
Heights, in those days.
I: That was a pretty good neighborhood, to.
B: That was, next to the Bay Shore Boulevard, we were next. It
had beautiful homes, and ah, that was the, the neighborhood in
those days. We lived in the corner house, a two story house there
for a long time, we had, all our neighbors were, were Anglo-Saxons,
with the exception of George Seirra, the fellow that had the, the
cigar factory, and they all spoke English, all the others were...
So you see the only words that we learned were from relatives or
from mom, but with dad we spoke English to him all the time.
I: Was he from Italy? Was he born in Italy, or ?
B: he was born in Sicily, but he came here when he was very,
very small.
I: How old was he?
B: He was about I think maybe seven years old, and ah, I think
five, and ah and he was always, he was education conscious, ver
much so, and ah that sort of thing.
I: How did the neighbors react to your being Italian? This was
say back in the '2U's, and this was still a relatively new ex-
perience?
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 1974
Page 17
B: Well, well we were accepted as neighbors, for that matter,
I mean we were accepted as neighbors there because we were there
a long time, you know. But in Ybor City there were Spanish and
Italian spoken all the time, traditions, you know are a very important
thing for them, but ah, when they went elsewhere, for instance
they would go to a social function, where they.would have a mixture-
there they still spoke Spanish and a lot of times some hard words
were said, and that sort of thing, but they didn't mean anything
by it, it was just their heritage But
ah, as I said I think that the ah, I would say that around the,
right after the Depression, I think, things started to move around.
Tony P Tony will be able to fill you, fill you
in on a lot of that because he had to go through all the experiences
to, he knows this prejudice thing, and in those days, he'll tell
you stories, you know of after you cross a boundary line they
were waiting for you to pick fights....
I: Now wait a minute, no, no...
B: ... just because we were not allowed to
I: What elementary school did you go to, I can't remember?
B: I went to Henderson.
I: Henderson. Where's Henderson?
B: Well Henderson in well it's on Henderson Avenue and Jefferson.
See then that was all...
Ybor City Typist: argaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 1974
Page 18
Side II
But they were not considered
I: Latins weren't considered ah...
B: They did not go to school with us, they went to Black schools.
I: Could you describe a little bit more about that, that's a
that I can't quite comprehend?
B: What do you mean? What's that?
I: Well you come to this country, your skin is black, but your
,oO
heart is Latin, and you speak Spanish, what happens when you come
here?
B: You're talking about back in those days? they
had to attend the black schools, because their skin was Black, and
of course a lot of them did not attend school, because they did not
want to go to the black public schools. And they ah, I don't
remember anyone going to the High School. There came Black people
from Cuba, from There was, they had a cast
system in those days to, you know, I mean they,
that's what it was.
I: I'll tell you one thing that the Sicilian's are protrayed in
the literature that I've read, as being among the most hard working
lot? How did, how do Sicilian's view the ah, Black?
B: Well of course, of course you know that the they came here
not only for perhaps maybe religious reasons, but for opportunities,
for making a better living for themselves and their children.
I: Did you say religious freedom?
B: I mean some perhaps did. Now you have to go before that time.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 14, 1974
Page 19
B: But in the early '20's there were not these-opportunities
to better themselves, because hardships that I
can gather, I've never been to Europe and he has never been to
Europe since he came here when he was five years old, but the
stories that here was that in the small towns there was no opportunities
at all, so realizing that they came here to better themselves.
I: How did they feel about a place like Tampa, it's in the
South and...
B: Well, they migrated to New York, and than because they did have
a Latin family, a Latin Colony here they came here where perhaps
they would have some relatives here, or something, see. But ah,
the ah, they came and they brought their trade with them, or perhaps
learned a trade, they did have to learn the cigar trade, because
that was the biggest industry here at that time, from the Latin
stand point.
I: Well that's another thing I wondered, how did they learn that
thing? I don't see the Cubans and the Spanish teaching the cigar
industry to the would they?
B: Yeah, no, no they needed cigar workers, because the industries
were big and growing. You see they are strictly the worlds best
hand made cigars, in those days, and they needed workers in those
sections, and especially those that were real good at it. See
in order to make cigars, you got to know how to make them, and they
only selected the "cream of the crop", in good cigars. So they
came and they learned a trade very young, they can be nine years
old or twelve years old, see. they had to go through
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 15, 1974
Page 20
the apprenticeship and then-fipally into the different stages of
work until they got to be cigar makers. And ah... But others had
some were masons, some were in carperentry and that sort of
thing, you know.
I: How did they react well, I wouldn't to much about
B: Well the others, Yqu mean cigar makers? They were Latin people,
teaching Latin people.
I: I don't know if your recollection would include such early age)
as back in 1910 or so, cause you were probably born in 1910, or so
back then. But from here how did they react to the
educational problem of going to the public schools?
B: Well I would say that nill, they didn't ah, they had, see the,
they raised a large family and the income was not enough, sufficient
to maintain the family so they had to send their daughters and sons
to work, at an early age. And in those days, prior to the middle
of the '20's, I would say they didn't go beyond the sixth grade.
I: So they really had not much use for all this education?
B: No, no they really didn't.
I: What about private education, parochial schools?
B: Ah, very little, very little, very little in the private
education, and only the, those that were sons of cigar owners,
manufacturers, millionaires would send them to private schools and
in those days they were usually in the convent or the Holly Names
Academy here in Bay Shore, see. But the average worker, Latin
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 15, 1974
Page 21
worker could not send anyone to private schools at all. O cassionally
they would ge some one to come and try to teach them some English
at home and that sort of thing, but never on a large scale.
I: But the did it have any adult classes or...
B: No...
I: ... or Americanization classes...
B: ... no, they what they had...
I: ... English classes?
B: No they, not in those days, that came later.
I: How much later?
B: I would say about the middle '30's, I would say. Right after
the ah, after the depression of '32, I would say. But they were,
the building was Ysed more or less as a classroom, for those that
were interested in going there, see. For instancewe would have from
Italian to English, you see, not from English to Italian.
I: They had English classes than.
B: Well ah, they perhaps may have had a few classesbut not on a
large scale, not on a large scale, only those that were interested,
you see. See you always had a few thatlooked beyond, and wanted
to improve themselves, and we, just like we ah, had a number of
families that what they wanted was for the children to benefit,
and have an education and so to it that they did.
I: It sounds like generally in order to ge ahead the average Italian
immigrant and his children didn't associate getting a head with
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Page 22
Aug, 15, 1974
public schools for themselves, they saw getting ahead as going out
and working.
B: That's right. They had to go out to work. And I would say
about the middle '20's, and they, they started to go beyond the
sixth grade to the ninth grade, and from there they went into
High School. As I said we had ah, we had, we were very proud of
ourselves because as I said, the last three years at Phillip Shore
every ninth grader that graduated from the ninth grade went to
High School in the tenth grade, every single one of them attended
High School, which was unbelievable. Usually that's not the case.
Usually someone falls by the wayside, or that sort of thing.
Because we constantly, ah, counceled with the parents about the
importance of education, and they realized the benefits in-those
days it was very important.
I: Well this is another angle.
B: that's right.
I: You're saying that you involved the parents?
B: Oh, positively.
I: I was going to ask you if there was some sort of Parent Teacher
Organization?
B: I'm talking about, I'm talking about, now ah, ah the last
three years, especially, over there. See, then the school, then the
school because of theblack, the Black people coming in into the
community it was necessary to close the school and turn it over to
them So that became strictly a Black school, entirely, a 100
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug, 15, 1974
Page 23
percent black school. That's why I kept saying the last three
years.
I: Oh, 1959 till 1962?
B: Something like that.
I: During that period of enrollment.
B: Oh, yes.
I: At this time.
B: You had to, you had to,you couldn't just strictly
oh no we had, well you know we always had, for instance we had a
Home Economics class there at night for the parents, we had a
sewing class there at night for the parents, we had art classes
there for the parents. I would say that, ah they benefited
from it. Remember now this was, I won't say was the beginning, but
it was a continuation, or a better larger continuation of parents
getting involved and getting benefitted from it. In fact we had
a couple of them that took h, ah sewing classes are now teaching,
are now teaching ah as substitutes in the High Schools at night,
that sort of thing.
I: _
B: Yeah, ah, but ah we also had football, and basketball, remember
the ah, the ah, course this was, we had football and basketball a
lot of them were involved in sports by that time, see. But because
of the possibility if they were good they would get scholarships,
a lot of them concentrated harder on this thing, a lot of them
received scholarships, after they graduated from high school.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. la5, 1974
Page 24
I: Let me ask youdgain, in the first years of Phillip Shore in
1949, when you were there, what was the relationship between the
school and the parents? How did they perceive the school, or
how did they get involved?
B: Of course paved the way there as
to say. He really started the program, then I enlarged it when
I was there and I went far beyond_
He was interested to he had the concept of that education was
the only thing in those days for Latin speaking people in Ybor
City, and ah...
I: What did this mean in terms of implementation? You know he
sits down and he decides we got to have a program for the Latin
American people. What did he mean by that? And what did he
do about it.
B: Well um, ah, I think, I don't know about the programs, but
another, my idea was when I took over that every child should get
the benefit of at least standing on top of the stage, participating,
taking part even if he didn't say anything, and you'd be surprised
the encouragement. But we used to work out programs, special
programs, we would sit down, with the teachers and they would work
out, together they would work out programs.
I: _by we, you mean you and the....
B: And the teachers.
I: ... and the teachers.
B: Later on we involved the parents, later on. And ah, one of
the things we need to do this year, what does this school need
to do inorder to help our students? What do the students need?
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 16, 1974
Page 25
What is the greatest need? As I said before, we concentrating on
reading, for awhile because we realized that they needed it, you
see. So we-worked out different programs in reading, we brought out
outside people, to help these people, specialists in this field,
at that time there were not too many. So each class would work out
"a play or a program, once a year, I mean one time, participate once
"a year. See? And they looked forward to it. All right, now
special events like Christmas a class would put that on, or a
special event like Thanksgiving a class would put that on, but we
also had, ah, programs like citizenship: What is a good American?
What do you...
I: Well how would that program, like would it be on the stage, or...
B: Yeah, it would be on the stage.
I: ... an auditorium assembly.
B: yeah, we had an auditorium there, where all of them came to
watch that particular program.
I: What would happen during this kind of program? What would you
do?
B: What would I do?
I: Well not you personally.
B: Well we would put in an assemblyfor the benefit of the students, and
then we would put it at night for the benefit of the parents.
I: Now I understand.
B: And, and, and we always had a large group come, because if
you want parents to 4% to a PTA meeting, lets say, you get their
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 16, 1974
Page 26
child involved in some program there, they'll come. So and they
really had, they were enthused they had a lot of pride in their
children. Look, I didn't know that my child could do this well,
I didn't know that this was going on, or I didn't know that they
were putting this thing on. And they would come, and ah, in
fact we jamed that thing up because we all, when we had a program
we involved the students, you see, we involved the students.
I: How would you get all the students to be involved?
B: Because we'd go by classes, I mean different grades...
I: I see.
B: ...You see? We would start let's say with the older children,
like the sixth grade, they would put ona Christmas play because they
had a few lines that they had to memorize or say, so you get them.
But, the best programs that I enjoyed the most were the little
ones, I mean the first and second graders.
I: What would they do?
B: They have different programs, you know.
I: Would they read a poem...
B: No...
I: What would they do, I'm really curious.
B: They would dramatize. You-see dramatization, we was, a lot of
times we have representing a country, let's say Greece, or Italy,
or France, what even they wanted, and than they would dramatize.
They would dress in the custume of that nation and that country,
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 16, 1974
Page 27
and they would demonstrate different things. You know...
I: Like dances, for instance?
B: ... like dances, the dances or the products, or agriculture, or
anything in those days.
I: This is, than what you're saying is that a lot of these, these
Latin students, especially had an opportunity to display their own
culture, or some og the dances and things like that.
B: Oh yes, surely.
I: So it was sorta' of ...
B: They believe in tradition and they had a lot of pride, and ah
I'm talking about the beginning part of it, now and later on as
I say they, we didn't have to do that as much, you see. But ah,
it was hard work but it was worth it because we realized that in
order to help these people that we had to for some kind of a
different program from 4 traditional type elementary school.
You know what I mean? It can become sometimes boring if you, all
you do is just trying to teach them the parts of speech, or some-
thing similar, you know, and add and subtract all day, I mean
these, you got to have a variety in the program.
I: What about your own childhood experiences in the school system?
You went to Henderson Elementary?
B: Yeah.
I: And you went right here to Junior High School? Ah, did this
Junior High School at that time have a lot of Latin American students?
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug,. 1l, 1974
Page 28
B: No they had a lot of Latins in here too.
I: Lets see it would have been the early '20's, no it would
have been the late '20's that you...
B: Early '20's, '23 I was probably maybe '22.
I: Right, right.
B: '22 and '23. You see we had, we had in those days in this
particular building we would have, let's say a 50-50, because
everybody from this side of the river came here, so that included
Semonile Heights, that included Gary, Jackson Heights, you know
all the way till Six Mile Creeks, see. And of course from this
side from Ybor City. So we would say it had about 50-50. And
ah, and ah, a lot of Italian and a lot of Spanish were spoken
here a lot of it.
I: What kind of programs did they have in those days for Italians
and Spanish people?
Bi Well they didn't have, they didn't have too much. They did
what they call an "Opportunity Class" for these people that were,
not because of the lack of English, but because they were poor
students, so they call it the "Opportunity Class" where they stay
with the teacher all day, and then use the ground floor, this site
here had about four or five classes, and they were put, they
used to call them the "dumb ones." And they resented it, and they
were no such thing, they were just slowerethan other students, but
Ybor City Typist: margaret Lenkway
Aug. 16, 1974
29
just opportunity. And they could stay with the
teacher all day. And, it didn't work out for the simple reason
that they didn't have the program for it.
I: Well just-as I understand, they had the "opportunity classes",
but that didn't work out, but they didn't have any other programs
either.
B: No.
I: What would happen to most of the people, how would you
assimilate, for example people who were Spanish background, back
in the early '20's when you were a student here you see people
coming in
B: These were not, these were not necessarily Spanish -Catholic
decendents, these were Anglo-Saxons to, that were poor students,
they couldn't add one and one, and all that sort of thing they were
really poor students, so they placed them all together then.
I: So everybody in "Opportunity class" was Anglo, Spanish, Italian,
they just couldn't make the grade.
B: That's right. But they tried it and they had a to finally
resolve it, but in those days the Latin people will stick with the
Latins, you see. Associate with the Latins. Anglo-Saxons associate
with Anglo-Saxons. Unless they were on the football team, you see.
I: Kinda like today.
B: Yeah, ah, and they speak a lot of Spanish, and over here they
try and get into, to concentrate on speaking English. I remember
distinctly that the principal was telling everybody to speak English.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 16, 1976
Page 30
Speak English. They were constantly reminded, but not too much
d:f that...
I: Did they have English as regular courses?
B: No that was regular courses, English classes.
I: Well...
B: Departmentalized, they go from English to math, math to social
studies.
I: Just like anybody else.
B: Yeah, oh yeah, sure. And remember a lot of these students were
brillent. The language barrier perhaps, maybe because they didn't
have the opportunity at home, because only Spanish was spoken at
home, or only Italian was spoken at home. But they were other
families that lived in other neighborhoods that were not living
in Ybor City, that had the advantage of these other people, I put
it that way.
I: What about the elementary schools? I'm not too clear on that?
Which ones back in the '10's and '20's were considered predominantly
to be Cuban, Spanish, Italian or a combination of the two?
B: Well of course the B.M. Ybor was the, is the, and Henderson and
Lee were the three in the called Ybor City in
those days and ah, and Gary was not included at that time with mostly
Anglo-Saxons there. But in the early times, just like I said they
went to school because they had to, and when they reached the sixth
grade or the fifth grade they would drop out to go to work because
of necessity.
I: Let's see Ybor Elementary, what other schools would have been
predominantly Latin?
Ybor City Typist: Margaret LeA.way
Aug. 16, 1974
Page 31
B: Well then ah, the others came a little later, like DeSota and
Phillip Shore, came a little later, you see. But I'm talking about
the early stages of it. They went to school and they didn't care
too much about it and the parents were waiting until he became 14
or 12, which ever it was, so he could go to work you know, and
Spanish was spoken inside the building, Italian was spoken for that
reason. But then, then I would say that in the middle '20's or the
early '20's you could see some difference there of the sanctions
of the different Latins, Latin families expanding
going to we had a lot of
And then the they wanted to make something of
themselves, and they always encouraged people to go through
that they had to graduate from High School in order to go to
college andbecome a doctor, and they were perhaps the first to
go to medical school, they were great. Dr. was
That sort of thing and you know others
went into other professions, dentistry, not so many in teachers,
that came later but architechs, not too many, engineers, not to
many, they was medical and dentistry more or less the main ones,
but we didn't have too-many.
I: You mentioned teachers came a little bit later, why would that
be? It sounds like there was a pattern there.
B: Well.... I don't know really why unless they, unless oc course
perhaps maybe, I don't know, I mean I really don't know. I'm not
certain why. I think I do but... The school teachers came a little
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 16, 1974
Page 32
later. Not too, not too far behind though a little later. But going
back to Philip Shore it wasn't all Spanish speaking, I mean we still
had it, we still had a lot of them speak Italian, we still had a lot
of them speak Spanish, but not as, you know not as great as I would
say ten years before, see. That sort of thing. But the main thing
is that we realized that they needed help and we were there to help
them. And we did, I think. I think we did.
I: It sounds like your program at Phillip Shore was a lot more
exceptional than...
B: I would say that we had, that we were one of the first to
pave the way in that respect, because we had
schedules outside, we had this fellow Nick who came
and put out_ for us, he was the County Commissioner
and he put all kinds of benches out there
and tables, outside, underneath the trees and we had the -
SAnd we would take
them outside, Tsomething different and they loved that shaded
area, and we tested the students without their knowledge in playing
games to see where there weaknesses and their strengths were, and
we expanded on it, I mean we concentrated on their weaknesses.
I: You had testing programs?
B: Well we didn't have a testing program, but we did have testing,
in order to find out more of what they lacked, this was needed.
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 16, 1974
Page 33
I: And you had you started the Platoon System.
B: No, we didn't have it at Phillip Shore.
I: ___________
B: No we didn't have it at Phillip Shore, no we didn't.
I: It was strictly at Ybor?
B: Yeah.
I: And it was probably phased out at Ybor.
B: Yeah.
I: By when?
B: Oh I can't quite remember, I guess just after Shorty Wilson
left, I think it was, it was phased out.
I: I thought I had one more question. How would you summorize,
ah, the various special programs and things that you did at
Phillip Shore?
B: Well first before we go to that, I think that we have come
a long way in education and we are professionals, and today we don't
consider whose a Latin, he may have a Latin name, but ah, I think
that we have come a long ways, they don't even think
now. The Blacks have come a long way, and I think the Blacks will
have the same, the same, in fact they have a greater opportunity
than we did and they arekt giving it to them, and I'm glad to see
that, you can, positively, because we are all human beings. But
of course I was principal of Phillip Shore, and I was also principal
of Preston, I was at Preston for four years, yeah four years, and
from there I went to Graham, I was principal of Graham for six
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 16, 1974
Page 34
years.
I: Wasn't also Latin?
B: They had a Latin Community, but when I went to _
see the ah, ah, the ah, the modernistic approach&a4c-place, I
mean, more or less. See?
I: What's the Modernistic Approach?
B: When they transform the past, speaking about the past they
become what we call Modernists, they believed in education now,
and they were moderner, they wanted their children to go to school.
And West Tampa has produced a lot of good citizens
But West Tampa was similar to Ybor City, very much, almost the
same. But when I went to Crawford, that was, I don't know that
was, what was it in '68-'69, no it was before that, I was there
four years, and I've been here three...
I: It was in the sixties that you thought at Creston?
B: Yeah I started in '49, and was there 13 years.
I: Right.
B: And four years at __,.
I: What about '62 to '66?
B:: All that I know is that I've been in this system 42 years.
I: Right, that's a...
B: It's a long time. 42 years. And of course I have to say that
I'm and reminese and go back cause so much has happened,
since then. I have something here that I'm sure you can... This
is ah, this these papers are what we call the WashroomC.f d 3 13 '
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
Aug. 22, 1974
Page 35
B: And just to show you for instance, just to show you, this
of the year, this is February, December 26,
we graduated the first week in January, was the middle school, I
mean \ \ year. They don't have that anymore, But this
is what it was supposed to be, December 27. This is the principle
,\ __ for the second half. And this is a
commensment number from graduation from.
As you can see...
I: Oh you have an article.
B: Oh yeah I was in those days it was called the class
principle, the valedictorian. That was in ... I had
See they didn't get an Anglo-Saxon, they selected me,
I: Why did they do that?
B: Well ...
I: not to select an Anglo-Saxon,
B: No, no half and half as I said _
(Can't pick this up as my tape is running to slow as it is near the
end.)
I: All of those were from the
B: Yeah. And this is the they used to go by class, and this nsed
to be the 9A1. Which was the 9A1, which was the homeroom section. TRis-
is my wife. She looks different there. See how skinny she was.
Williams was class President.
I: just out of curiosity you knew your wife...
Ybor City Typist: Margaret Lenkway
i .34 Aug. 22, 1974
B: Yeah.
I: When did you marry her?
B: '31. This is 9A2. A lot of these people are dead now...
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