Title: Arthur Forster [ESC 4]
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Title: Arthur Forster ESC 4
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August 1904 East New York Uncle Walter


,2

Returning From Peoril 1904


This is A. E. Forster and this is August 1904. I am going

to talk about after returning from Pcoric. I was living with my

Aunt Josee Davidson in E.st TN York. l-y Uncle Walter came and

told me he had a job for me as a mess snmger in the shop he was

working in. He said I mn.ybe able to work up to apprentice pattern

Iaker. lie spent the night and we went together to his shop the next

morning.

We road the elevator train going over the Brooklyn bridge and

then ha.d to wT-1k five or six blocks to the shop, up Center Street

to Franklin Street. The shop was on the fourth floor across the

street from the Tumbs Prison r.nd the criminal courts building. I

worked there about two nnd one half years. The name of the company

w t the John Simmons Company. They :pecirlized in all kinds of

pipes and fittings. At the time I started with them they had a

contract with the Inter Bourrough Rapid Transite Company Subway in

New York City. Oh by the way this was the first subway to be built

in New York City.

This company contract was to furnish and place all of the hnrd-

wood hand railings in all the subway stations on the system. As I

remember, about 90% of this hand railing was straight going with what









# 2


August 1904 John Simmons Compnny

they called rtrndP.rd curves. That was curved pieces that could

be me.de up on a machine. The other 10% hrad to be made up special

and it ams necessary to cond a pattern maker out to get these

measurements, making tempest to tl?:o back to the shop to i.kc the
curved piecoc of hand rn.ilinr as needed. Th..t's where I came in.

This pattern milkor nendcd a helper to help hold the other end,

that is and so forth and to carry tools and supplies and run err-

ands to the shpp or to other stations on the cubway system. The

trains just .ct.rtcd to run for the first time on this subw-ay system.

If you worked for a company and had to be in the subway you obuld

get a pass but you road at your own rick Cand. sometimes what a ride,

with the train flying past the station then backing up and for me

those first days were some experience,

That job in the subway lasted for me just a couple of months

or so. Then I went bacl: to the shop and my ;job there was cleaning

up the shop, making glue, mixing sh.llac and running errands* One
day the big boss in the office sent for me and he wanted to lnow if

I Inew where Mott Street was in China town. When I told him no he
s.id I could find it, we looked on a map in the office cnd he gave

me the address, He said put this envelope in your coat pocket cnd

don't take it out until you see this lady at this address. He then

pointed to this picture of a lady hanging in his office and said

give the envelope to this lady.







#2

Atiunct 1904 John i...rons Conrp.ny


""h'I thc ther only !.nriCan pnrccn I nrm In this 'oll kept nr'rrtment.

The' e wnr. Chinoro rnople nll nronmri nnQi it Inc- rnmoSft rpano!:y r.loi;7
to hair apartment nnC rnh.lye a relief iuhon I ccsy bEr rrn. Tnran nble
to lo.Vr there,
X i c novor tolf '!It I sfthin: she uIn a mlcsiomnry. I took money
in tr.t oenvalro to her iwmolly.
ro", To nre. cgottin T bnle~ t tthe p'?ttorn shop. nTh- prttcrn mrkern:
in thic shop iaer Geormr.n r.n! L;w~echin f the re as e ;ccftorrn or Znglirch
rnd m.y Uncloe '..it.nrBurtchellhic father x,-c Ilish but ht could t.2lc

a little o trmrn and he tas fnr help to tihe cnpany rnd ,lsi to
the GOermrns in tottinr; .lon,.
The toss in hir shop r. Cotm .crn ant7 hic nram Ino Frost'
0He r y1 my Grr.ndfPthor :ero gcood frienrnc In fact they buc:ht comtery

lots r.lanr- cri;T? o'nc oth':? inn Cyprei's illll Conmetry corna yr.Ltr r-c co
Infct .- of trv(d- y' tlhoy rce bfth lnrurio l thro.*,, .nn,' I r, r bolthi
the C1r've TihCn I w:ent .F 'rth :tith l -i In 199.
Shllhcty rfte.r I nt.-.rti to r ~ 'l for thin company I strrtod to
nirht schooll in r'.-'re:lyn, I 2T1.n some ynrr r'.r hin5 in school, An-
I cwuen it crn ,t.rt-in-n to chon, on r., !!hrn the ,cots.mrn ny boCr
t. Frt1:_ h5r" .1v.-( about r Cgoln to r, -chnl at nicht lie toLll ne hei
T s nlc tn crm n : crinr to nir.ht school oat night bcc'uso if I 'rntod
t4o l n. p ntte!'r' maker I tn-ul. Ihrvo t' hIvoe a lot moare schooling.







# 2


August 1904 John Simmons Company
Ni-?ht School Brooklym


And he make a proposition with m- n.nd that w.n if I would go to
school every nirht he would lcve me a dollar for every week I went

to School every night. He !:cpt his .or., rand every Saturday morning

he 7ould call me over cnd we roulC t~t!:k n-n-t he would give me a dollar,

During the whole year I never missed a night in school, and on the
last night of school I was the only one in the class that was present

every night. And the Teocher prcrlnted a fountain pen to me for not

missing a night. After school I talked to the teacher nbout getting

a letter so I could short it to my nBos and she said I will do better
than that, she would get the principal to write the letter, I took
the letter to my boss and we both went down to the main office and
before I left there I hiad an incre?.so in pay. The letter did it,
That year going to night school every night probably kept me
out of trouble and it was the st.rt of me going to night school for
the next ten or twelve years until 1915, I was with this company
that is the John Simmons Conprny for bout two and. one half years

and was getting seven dollars a iac!: but not all that timen was

spent as an apprentice.









R. Hoe Company


I _y Grandnfather learned I was out of a job and he prevailed

on me that I should go to work in a shop that- he worked in years

before and that was R. Hoe and Company. I would have to start

from scratch and sign up for five years. I didn't like the idea

but he put pressure on my mother and me and I signed up and that

was for five years and that was three dollars a week to start, I

had to go in the carpenter shopfirst and wait for an opening in the

pattern shop, but my time was a credit on my total time as an app-

rentice pattern maker. They had a nlht school for apprentice and

it was across the street over a stable. They would give us a

sandwich and a bow.:l of milk after ten hours of work a day, and that

held for two hours night studies.

I went to work there, I think it was January 1907 -and I stayed

until I went to Bath Beach to see my .other who was staying with my

Grandfather because he was sick and while I was there we talked

about my job. I heard my Grandfather say, but not to me, I sure fixed

him for the next five years, it will keep his nose to the grind stone

and he won't have any spending money for the ne.-xt five years.

Now that was not his exact words, but that was his intentions.

I never went back to Ithat sh-o again and that was in August 1907.

iy Grandfather was a pattern maker and he had a lot of good

pattern making tools. .hen I was working for John Simnons Company

he loaned me his suit case tool box and some good tools. I had

no use for these tools while I worked for R. Hoe Company, as I was

working in the carpenter shop, doing helper and hard labor work.






R. Hoe & Co.


Svwent to work for R. Ioe & Co. in January of 1907. I went to

work in the carpenter shop. I was suppose to be having some of my

pattern making experience working in the carpenter shop. ITow the

kind of work that they gave me was labor work, not helper work or

apprentice work but just damn labor work. Here's what I was doing -

I was working on a lot of oak timber. We had timber there that was

some two, some three inches thick; it was from 12 18 inches wide

and some of it as long as 20 feet. That material was used for making

steps or platforms ;on printing presses. Now if you have ever seen a

printing press, you've seen these big heavy platforms they have on

the sides of them. That was what we were making. We had to man-

handle that material. We had to put it on the planer or joiner;

put it on the joiner and join one side of it or plane. one side of it;

put it through the thickness planer and then get the edges. It was

heavy labor work. It was no kind of work for a boy that weighed

about 145 or 150 pounds. That's what I weighed I think. I was 17

years old at that time. I managed to stay there until August and

then I quit.

There's one thing in particular I want to say about R. Hoe & Co.

Something I think somebody should be very proud of and that was the

hallways. The hallways were about, probably, 15 18 feet wide and

firoil onIe nd( of' lthe building to theo o hur. 'lour:, w,, x:o -.Pijr o0

stairs on the forward end of it, that is near the main street. At

the other end, on every floor, there were, about 15 feet from "he

edge of the building, partitions on each side of the hall. hae




R. Hoe & Co. #2


partitions went in about 3 4 feet and were made of brick. They
went right up to the ceiling. Zhere was concrete on the floor and

a big drain on the floor so the water wouldn't stay on the floor.
I don't think they put it there to keep our feet dry, but it was

there. iaere were no windows in the place, no glass windows, no

just a big open space. 2his particular day it was cold; it was
snowing, snowing hard. It was the early part of January. I had only

been there a very short time.

How they had in this enclosurre where they had the brick some tubs

or iron troughs. Ehere was one on one side of the room and there was

one on the other side with about a 2 x 6 board on the top of it. On

one end there was about a 10 or 12 inch sewer pipe; on the other end

there was about a 4 inch pipe. This was an iron pipe that led to a

valve that led to an automatic ON and OPP steam trap of some kind.

Occasionally you would have to go to this place, everybody has to go
to them it's nature. I was in there one day, the first time. There

were four or five men sitting in the place minding their own business

doing something that is nobody else's business but their own. So they

were naturally minding their own business when somebody said if you

hear that thing click, you better jump just as quick as you can.

Just about that time we heard the click and it meant you had to jump

just as quick as you could. If you didn't jump just as quick as you

could, you might not be able to sit down for three or four days, you

may need medical attention. Anyhow, there would be this four inch

pipe, more or less, of steam and hot water going down the trough
wiping everything out of the trough and down into the sewer. It would
be on both sides of the room. It would be hot steam. You just couldn't




R. Hoe & Co.. 57


stand in the room while the steam was being blown into the trough.

You had to get out of the room. It didn't matter how you were dressed

or if you were dressed. You just couldn't stand in that room during

the time the steam was blowing. It was too hot for you. You couldn't

sit down; if you did you may not sit down for a long time.

'That would last fae quite some time. The steam would shut off

automatically and, of course, if it was a cold and snovwy day the

steam wouldn't stay in the room long because the cold would take over

and it would be freezing in there again. Well you wouldn't take a

chance going back again. 'You just had enough of that place for the

rest of the day and if you were wise and could afford it, for the rest

of your life. I didn't go in there but a few times and only when it

was necessary. hey didn't expect anybody to spend any time in that

place loafing. That wasn't the place to loaf. Of course you couldn't

loaf in the shop because you were right under a boss that would -almost

stand around with a whip in his hand. That was the kind of company

that R. Hoe & Co. was.

This company was a printing press company, they made printing

presses. You've seen these big rolls of paper that they use to make

newspapers out of. Now before they could deliver a machine they had

to run so many rolls of paper through this machine. It would come out

clean paper folded up like a newspaper but with no printing on it because

they wouldn't use any ink. Well, they would take all this newspaper and

they had a special machine that would cut it up and make large piles of

it. Not in the room where they had the steam, but outside of the room

they had piles of this paper. It would be from the floor maybe up to 3

or 4 feet high where it would be put there as needed. When a man






.Also Vulcan Iron Co. #4


wont- into this place he generally took a handful of this paper with

him. He put it on the seat and he didn't mind how much of '-th paper

went down in the trough because he didn't give a damn whether ithat

place clogged up or didn't clog up. 'ie only thing was he went in
there when he had to and he got out of there just as soon as he could.

In August 1907 I went to work for the Vulcsa Iron Co. in Brooklyn;

it was a branch or part of the John Siimmaons Co. I worked for inr New

York. When my Grandfather found out I quit R. Hoe & Co., he sent for

his tools that I was using. I took the tools aad his suitcase tool

box to him. I saw that they were all in good condition. He had been

paralyzed on one side and he had no use for these tools. He just did

not want me to have them because I left R. Hoe & Co. and had a better

job and getting more money.

VWhen I told the company I was working for what my Grandfather

did, they told me to get up a list of tools I would need and they sent
over to New York for them. I paid for -hem from time to time until

I paid for them in full. When the Vulcan Iron Co. had a slack period,

I went to work for the National Meter Co., November 1908.


LR. Hoe & Co.






R. Hoe Company


Now at a certain time when the war was on this was in 1915,
R. Hoe and Company had a little spurt of business and they needed

extra pattern makers and they wanted them right away. I was sent
over there by the Union delegate. Tlat is the secretary and on the

way over I told him I couldn't go to work for R. Hoe & Company because

I had already quit that company and- they don't hire anybody that ever
quit. In other words, they thought they were too damn good to quit, so

I quit and anyhow I didn't want to go over there. Well he insisted
on me going because, I was the only available man just at this time

and he said to them he would have a man there in that afternoon to
work that night. Well I went there to the gate, gave the watchman

my pass that was given to me by the union man and went up to the shop

and got on the night shift. I worked on the night shift and was put
on the day shift. I worked around, I think I worked there about five
days and all the pattern makers knew that I was a pattern maker
and was out of my time; but they knew I had been a pattern
maker. But I had worked in their carpenter shop and none of these
fellows cared anything about saying anything about my having quit the'
company.
But one day there was a fellow in the carpenter shop' I happened
to meet on the stairs going up and the first thing he did as soon as
he got to the top of the stairs was to go to his boss and report to
his boss that I was working for the company, when the company wouldn't
hire people who quit. Now this boss pattern maker, he was a fine fellow
and I liked him, I believe he was honestly sorry to see me go but there
was nothing else he could do but let me" go. Nothing but let me take my





R. Hoe Company


tools out and get my money that night, which I did. I had to go down
to the office, have my tools handled for me, manage to get my money

and get straightened up with the company.
I immediately called the union and it seems the labor union knew
before I did that I was going to be fired and they knew why. All I
could get out of them was a laugh.- That's the good company that my

Grandfather sent me to. However, the union sent me to another job
which was a better'shop to work in than this R. Hoe & Co. shop. I
think when I left this company was when I made my trip to the Canal
Zone on a United fruit boat which was British owned but their ships
were flying under the American flag and that was before we were in

the war. I speak of this trip in another part of this writing.




U. S. Express Building


Now this is a small story about 1904 when I worked for John

Simmons Company. There was a building in downtown New York that was

being built called the United States Express Company Building. It

was about a 20 story structure. All the steel work was up and the

roof was on and a good bit of the overhang of the roof was on. They
had just started putting the facing on the building or the brick work

and they were up about two or three stories. Now this John Simmons

company had a contract of putting a hand railing all around the roof

of the building to keep you from walking off.the roof. You wouldn't
necessarily be in any danger but you had to step up to get off the

roof on account of the overhang. The overhang was not level with the

roof, it was built higher than the roof.
They had a group of their men working on this job and they needed

some certain material. My company, John Simmons Co., and I guess this
was about 1905 after I had been with them about a year, sent me down

there to see the man that was doing the job and give him this material

that I had taken down there. It was a pretty heavy piece of steel

pipe. They had an elevator there that I will describe later. The
elevator was being loaded with men and they had a wheel barrel or so

filled with cement. I jumped on the elevator. Nobody said anything

to me and I went on up to the roof. I got off at the roof, looked

around and saw my man, the man I was looking for. I gave him what I

brought up to him. He took it and I looked around for about 10 15

minutes looking down at some of the buildings and, of course, looking

up at some. I could see the churches, Trinity Church, in the distance
and quite a few other places. I enjoyed my visit up there looking
around. I decided it was time to go back so I went back to the elevator.








This elevator happened to be up on the top floor, up on the roof.

I got on the elevator; I waited for a while for it to start but it
didn't start. Now they had a list of what to do, push one button to do

this, push two buttons to do that and push three buttons to do something

else. I don't know what I pushed, but I pushed something. The elevator

started down. It went down 20 floors. On the way down I was up in the

air, I wasn't on the floor. I was holding my hands up to keep from

going through the roof of the elevator because it was steel up there.
I got down pretty close to the bottom that was the last I knew. The
next thing I knew I was over in the dispensary that belonged to this

company laying on a table. They brought me to and wanted to know what

I was doing on the elevator. they looked me over. No bones were broken,

I was just shook up and, of course, I had a heavy fall on the floor

from the elevator stopping as quick as it did. It did knock me uncon-

scious. Well I had to tell the fellow what I was doing up on the roof

and who I worked for. They had to know my name. They kept me there for

about an hour or so and they wrote out something and got me to sign on
the line. If anything else, don't ask me what I signed, I just signed

it because he said sign your name here and I signed my name. I guess

I was signing my life away again. That is what happened to me. I
stayed there for an hour or two and they let me go home. I went back
to the company and told my boss what happened. That was the last time

I was sent down to that place. In fact, it was almost the last time I
was sent on a message.
This elevator was about 10 ft. square and had a steel top on it

and some heavy steel braces. Steel cables went from the top of the car








up to a pulley and then down to a winch. This winch down below was
pulled by a steam engine or steam boiler of some kind. I don't know

just how it operated. This building was about one block west of

Broadway and probably two blocks before getting down -t Trinity Church,
that's Wall St. It was on the northwest corner of the street. I don't know

what the streets were at that time. Now the United States Express Co.

Building, there's no such thing at the present time as the United States

Express Co., so I imagine they changed the name of that building. I

don't even know if that building is there at the present time.







This information should come in the records right after John

Simmons Company information. This is a small piece of information
that should be in when I went to work for the John Simmons Co.
in that pattern shop in New York.
Now I started a habit of chewing tobacco, I chewed Laurel Lodge

chewing tobacco. I can't say that I liked it but it was the custom;

of all pattern makers when they were doing certain kinds of work

such as turning pieces in the lathe and having to do a lot of sand-

papering of wood. In order not to breathe the sand dust, we would
chew tobacco. It seemed to be the custom that all pattern makers

chewed tobacco when they were working in the shop. We generally had

a can or saw box of sawdust in which to use if we needed it. Before
leaving New York for Pensacola I stocked up on some of this Laurel
Lodge tobacco because I wasn't sure I could get it in Pensacola.
I chewed this same kind of tobacco while in Pensacola in 1916.

After working here a couple of weeks I lost that habit because I was
talking to men who did not chew tobacco. It got to be a nuisance to
have to go to the end of the bench before talking to them. I gave up

this chewing tobacco and I learned how to chew gum. Well that was the

first time I ever remembered chewing gum, it was in 1916. I guess I
chewed my share of it for a short time. I never was a heavy cigarette

smoker; I smoked them occasionally. I smoke an occasional cigar and

at one time I tried a pipe. I liked it but it was more of a nuisance
than smoking a cigarette. You could just pick up a cigarette and throw

it down when you get through with it, but not your pipe. You always
had to be cleaning it out and, like I say, that was a nuisance.




b







At the Naval Air Station the sailors would get cigarettes from

the canteen and I always had a carton more or less, in my desk. When

anybody came up to my office to talk to me I would always bring out a

pack and offer them cigarettes. If they were alone and had a gripe

or if it was a whole shop committee or machinist union committee,

they could smoke in my office. I found out that it was a good way

to ease the tension that might have brought them up to my office in

the first place.

When I retired from the Naval Air Station, one of the first things

I did was quit smoking. I haven't smoked in a good many years and I

wouldn't think of putting a cigarette in my mouth or a cigar or a pipe

at the present time.








1Q



,. '. .t t !.Ik n n--*,. ti t of ': Tif' b t'w' rP, ,ovr 'w I9

n-W1 .April 113. : '*w I eny name where elTse in receri eB that I start-

&, ta r r k at the ~ltin1, rVet.r Crp-rny en :ovlbtr,r the d.,v before

''r.r.l:;?vinr F r n? th,. cr~na v ive 7E a turkey te take hr'n

with '* th-t nlrot. i:' t 's-t*cr in t-! rAc r-r' s-r,,rcVre.
But WIn tlYrlnr about thnt cn'rapmny norw ia? rp le hn thnt nsnto-
Spny. e 'rT j '' ar. 'err he wvs the ~genenw l -.anrvver but b-te-'ly

be *r, a petter-r l7krr nri thic c-nlnyv treIk up pretty cats' to a
cl'ar- bl:'&, 1c 'K. a.1t f mc' n rrcr'ir, in the e-,mp ny. It '-mV a

I rge cr-3.ny. 'A roUD o uof gV t tr.etiher o .i thit is rr!-T: ly the

rimes, Crrr.? iP*T-r. an' W'. :. erry and a fells by the nuo.e of

' rl.ell rr- t1.e' "t)'h r :r,' by the name of -.,rn.', I think t. 1pe.lls~:

1hinnn r P'.n'rl3yt t.rt'*. t.'e it say he spllt'i it. A. !i. tr".'.-r.

that's : .. ea.

They e- r? 350 htrr" 'er, s a hnvy ruty e nri;lnen t" run F-, t'. ri-zI
rlth, line vhafts -n--. leather belt for Indliidual machiren. AmrA
th.st lm.s t!.e ustc', at that ttie., All factnripn w;ert' run abOut that
'v t S ..fmr Stm -n(I a
-, my with tuld big n.ir," 7 ith hn-iv3 b.7lte fry- ,n. f'nr' trr tnh

other, A.kMn from line sh.tsr to I i,.d'lvida-l moinchi ., well that*
all I'll r-y abeut t'-t.

Neo this particular rrnuD rfi men I speke of we p.(:t t",oge'br

ond it ws .bhut the tine Curtlts .n -',7 rA the wrl'h "s sf :irnme

of the tthreer airplane exportrn ,:e'r flying Arplanc. i W t:vir".ht
if they coeul,do. it, probably we onuld c we ohi:pRnd in a little










\ 3. EcrrteCr,

1903-1913 national. Meter Company

ney. We gtorted obu'irs equirmenrt, :.mklirg drowimnrr, or: around
thh thlffr..t plIocir ::; th;, v If.a. aiLrrlares. Atn .ft2c r a.. n

- :.'h -t t';'" z3 --tc r we r.-:'.1 fzre: th re c':p.y.ni3sc. s hern r.nrt

rwr y colnpa.nlr an- Thy cU T.n'tt t,,-, zact h to stQtc l, at .se re-nt around
a-yb- nnr. woe. Cam up -.itfh -rup 'n"ir.r .
~ w I have ~i5crtur.ft '.f t.wo dirfFrod. airplar.'s, tiht -Te built
re l-:l.lt.t.. ftin.r: .w:- 'A .a inr'i a PtC:lin LnO'-vle.'e.2 !"th-rr

1n it, ',I :..'-tl ; e nr*:u ;e, ;:f ta' he asvy, WIe ;aL on ar; l-Irnnre

prp'-pIl.r, ."': ... .i;'t t;er wht .. f.;rpl'.1ei r'ymcllo lt.Ted lI e ar,
We couldn't ;t ;- r *;'- to a- whaxt it 1or"k-d l'11ke. So ie wa c

W.'at we th-,utit ;.t on flrpin.-- prn.lTurl r.' hd- o Fla ict'1trp .r

Il1 thin thin- was mere it a cn lh twbrf'n na 3-rpefll rr

,all we t ':: -tak- this a*irpili;r-n, pull AI. thr.-uir. 'VN ;trr" ftp:
Ann ri Cu;va? it7r;:i.;, r: vrt tt a ol';-C' crlldca ;ltes I3ac.h inrl and
th'at rr in c'zth ir ':lyi, vc' nmr f.rt ;-Ailton, Xe xould det
nt :!ilj pnr ,-;rly i: the ..r;2r..; arl we wc.ild attn:ipt t+ fly: this


;:'r** thr: rT: fiC or ;;ir of us in ;thf U;r p. e v cll figtred

-we blu N-.vn a ch.nc' to ly *it. C e wo I&uld 1 all t.t & cntance

tn fly 1t. ; e :c-1 0.' -nt i:n 3t It -en he p fron n<-! r-A r f tt"Y fld

to thl o4",thr. .Al';Vr down grra)e f? if we'ilen't fn to "'much










A, P.. Forste:o

1903-1913 :tc tiinal water r Comparny


dnfi ro to it -n could fix it we a i'uld get It lb-ck ti w'hre, we
ctrtepr anad arr-*.tr inll.: .:ul' tl:,: it f;..,i we v'rulC r', thl.t
untY.l ." arul. 0::.'.h it t'n o :'rt, it, cri-.1r.'t b,-ixe: ryfht
ther n tWm C>,l$ siiytr.

Ant.i w wvC~ould pic it rp T fcr- rc.l c::, c7rrT.- It 1aclk td

w r : wc "p'c--p it -' .O : ci.ir g it i~'. a z,.tble. T:T'r

t;e. no .-.ch h a.s r I".r.. t'c .:'.. it ,'" k;e. cpt it It n
a cshblc. It was a dirt f'rr -". t:' rtace, 'c ,-ulr fix the'

t'linr tsp !r a f~r weevokc, trre -r lcr.r .'d trnrk it rut. Ve.' niht

.dke. se':- c :.e. on Imt. .:'fi d take it rut anr try it nt a I;n.r
'od cntiue ..- d _'tn i2..: .2.t ,r-2v1 :, ach f-1l. a c-ai-e n on t.
':?,. vr3e all luokyj tha:t ,. d--.'t r-t 17u- r m C!ne, we d.idnt, rbrptcy

ever got 'itrt, bu.t I .'I n pt tt i li- tr in t.! al no~ tolinr it tbok
f-I'1rr it, trynlg-r it 1 r-Tt.
i7Y.~I'l: an rt"it ~ .' "'.~.r,- -"-. ,r Y-rk hacarci .aout this

nirplar.n, th't ":! ntd t h.:C; cTe r(. tr _:en it. 'ihey 1leteI

it ever nne wr '. .- crtnr.n rce..V nft -Ith thlr' uan- thi.1r BI l:cut
wltnt epreerentr. :. "neT, They ': .-crt to .ta:ec the nll ialnne tr NOfw*
burt-h, 'r; '-r'., to a o-t7 fMi. Ir 'r: I think thi wsa 1909, it

mnlht hnve en~ 1910. IX2 n*it nr,:r, h.t we I-rs. th nirlrlr.c ;rf!

We tovk it In a btn--'e err,















.'V all, th ae cr ftur .' t.r v:ett, Wte all ctryed in th'. bag;ga car,
'i let of i- n'.ch T.. t. r 1 .'tf C rt.f tr. cat, :c rtt.ye up

hr.cE a :.r": -r r" n p s' fift- lrlN rs 's, for ivCry day

we ....te eur r.,..; ;.. they 'aiv uc: a r:rntract t. r-.y u;u

firty ,'."l-j't f-.r r vcr ' :: t t e f ute airplan 1i'. the alr.
r : (. t leM:r l.. ft .,, ."t t+ r't:3 T .Y a t '-.ul ti. .. .,i th

thnt. ."'e UV te : ;nort t tay ... fly th, larl:..;-c In ;thw air,
.1:, O t- .


'Thn-t we i.'t :.ct kll.. t, thr.' d'ifCt -r.t ".yr'n up tlhvro gettir.s

kllo, "o I.,tn't !:r'", r"yth:- n..rut ft.7lr4c ryhow, ev it ras just

c.s 1ll, .e wtre I .et tv'erf hu:rd rc.llr for -ribiAltln this,

rurpl :c...r frr r.-'.a, -:,:., nt t:! e,-.- t,. "t;:: th .ry r .ve us tlhro

bun: rC d llrs 7. bs.--%a ear we :?itp pin we :..sll I ro' .

InC it r'--'ht r :'lt. Tfb to 'l.st, well a near t, the hersn


r r.-.r," -'- e .- -t ,%,c' n rr. We >-ntsl' rtf coJ If t W
coulV do b.t.ter. '. .n-,t, t.' uy a new ,"tr h.. th.n.

hua;r-.,'l t'-.1.., I (re - '-.< a' .- :-t'-r ftr thre-ae hinndr.,l ellors.

Sit.e D tlt'h.t'tr.-"... >t.r',.t .tas .urt tec -'1.-:i',r tih

rt, '"--il! ity. *1." t-,. em n't t- :'h utp th.r, u-.. t -h re.,,

t1Ce- % ll thit :. : y .':,' '? Fh': '-, ,t iat'ry. it r f dr:., k-.e Ti *nt" "s',e
th< a'-t "r', it woc1..d d v *e.. in;e 7 yl;-; It er ;il *r., Trt h In.










A, E, FrrLr ...

1903i-1923 ltl"l ia Cor C,:i ry


tw-r e:aiUd gt s.'r .. rsy r lcv1ut2..:. : '. c'rllu :r thi-s or4. we neoul.

d!' that o 1;.-:?-'L At, ?:e ,al. t. -r' ': 2rc2 dr -1 r 1:: 41 :t :rs
0 v t";

dweller l, e it in. .: in :-'a r"Iat 2 ,:.-c?

to ik. a hub f.- th; t r- t.r tt I;..;vtcr-. ;r: c." in the

stai- .-3n-f t8;s <.A r if u .:: C,.I% 1.: j ,1 L: .-l ,p. i-'-'. ., .. .. w1sa

drl ct, ii It ;.. .C. a .1 i,: h for t :pr pl-2Cl ..' t'


we dnci.t.lo b -*2220 m ts: p7'y.t "i :.I:.:te r) we h1r

q'ito a bi- ,. .c:.-; l c.. ee .'..polln .rs, tiy r e.c Ct'tta

i.;-.; "ut no -";:!-. ; *. t w. :"c, c '.''.;i,-:. a3r.2'T rne(-,, a. d1 r'.., !^,- n- pfell ' ,n:.W .....-r t .... ,r" I t a W:--.i- .r 2 -.:, 11: -'



t.$rc .i s r. n amount of Prv.w!trr'.' ; r.k.. a pr...lX"r for a
"S$five C. v: .. .. :



S'...t "",' a rp c .'.' fcpr . .. .. .. ,,--0

:'. v' tt'' r -r'i' i'':c :Lit r'. !Ce L a apr'tt) ;- rrrd 1 :p (r ,
r r r l- vw,
;.illt it up crf : -'..' rf7l Ic .2, -'n*' rCA nw. trk n--u: two

;ve;A h1::1.Udi.V tt. I ": it rama, p..t It '" t.:' it did ."vr;.-tsing

thy r'p:uc< tr ::t f t o i'erA. '"n"" "ithit this thing

.-... ::ora .; .-1 th:.: ;.;:-: p:: ,ol:.o:. a .rv nrf :s-t: r tfl t uso ":ild

Sb". ble t -t. fly tlth It. 2te ;, .-'tn .1- ;. t-. tr-. ci.: f 4.y .

'.3'd n' out thoi~, ,r. t-':c: t, rot it :'ff the aeir,''.e rrul nl".-E

tde ttit, th.rt ,:.- e".nsy, blt tvrn ^oi;ly iad .-sa'1 ay lt;r.is with

it t t.











.- ',-1913 t .:l :C'` t ,-,-.7




t:ovoy u.':' a. 2 f tcl' a2 7 r:T r :.1 tr.t, thy .'tr.trU t 1fn p



,I. *-.4.4.4 '". .- -, l., N fly
),-r-,- .r- l t .. '...7r 4 r. . '..* 5h,:i 4. t :-. r rp e
.-. y flyin. t.. : .;-.- i. l ; :nc .: n.: v1 tI -i. I no
Xtn "v:.:: 1 r 0 1- *.* .. .t- In1 1 r,-.. t! A2 t I I

'-: d p-;L; ;.*; rl. : : ec ; m too US t '1-
to v it, ... if : --. _-11 .: i pat 'r f: a n-:u r l .2:: 'y,

"S p. t li.m ; -.th th:,... -i.. ,..2, I,,. .:. t. .n 1.... b y rk-

.t':T fP' t:.-"' .".i-, ,1' .' .. ..ih t',. c ... :,r. r t ay s'.tth
it r t.: .- .. ,It:r .' or t r r

e *''.1 fl -.' 2t 1i '-c'; t .: 7 ;- r- -; tot q.: t. t flyC: r;

i ; ', .- -" q' it ,1 : -.r. *.. r '- *' t' t'r .t I -::t

: i-r .t t


,. t ;r r c i .rpl4 ns..

I indc :> ".C 'r -,c r -::tL hi t.Th2t I 31k . .

l .-'3 t, do it, cr I.. T.7. t." .1-.- e t e :"o..- -t a l2 tcr i t

I f.4".4. .:. r;'.y -'. .esti-''. 1c t' r J 'r at rc-.rn: l-.r ,'s-. .nr I 7 .-* t. o .r ,rr- oln

in '19ie. ..'r.' T-.pr:-':-' :- the t:' yr., *?rt I 'h'. to gt to
,4' to ta-. b .c r ,

" -1 T'."rt tutr, ? X c :' t let. t r.-' r r:.- 'r .- r'r." -l 'f

"ly f. ', t.i. n, t:, ; .. . 4.... g t.., ._-,- ..1. ...... t*.. -u r .en.











a t I** "'II I' -- -" .


XI ;L nrr zz-

I still r.c^: ? it, *I th5.; t"':-' n tv; "'-y.r wts '.ri:e X t- rt

t h t T :ch-::o I t.t tt Y t~ ""' --c'.:.:r.t. 'lr:2:; r,



":r : '" r t .::-t t'j T"- 1rfrv'-.- bo .n~ae-lt'
we u e-c t .":r" in r.'" T l ':C7 It C-..'r r to ?; -.tr-c e-r i-.n

:h7 1916. I '.t !t Mthw -" ,r1.r 1 :'t t. '- 1 ^.L -. .' q 191. ,

te !'r. Z' -.1 t t rc V;,--r T left t'i:.- -t.'r' "*-t-r n r~t ...' I.n 1 ..3,

I r.:: : thn : -. t- ..r : wh"t rItt.^ 71 "0 jbbrl.i. rbp. 'h~~' t was

tf vet j'--bbi':. r',p 'ey~-*.nE" .. I :'- thrr y,'i-,s t '.'t. p.rcr. in
th' jo..--; c e C!.' -..I 1 set t r "cr in ths- j bbprr ;lcbpo,

*'1 ot fcrrr;- o'nb indn a ;'ttrrn and' d'f emitrse, Arirnr tVtht

t*iCe, t;".t ra t 1M25, hI tt", Et ra '-r':,t I t -,.t tr1. d,,wn

tr .r. n th rntl- T'"r".t. t "I'1* t'r trip .i t. r t t
t .6 O'- n .f 'l' h r:* ; T'* r t '1:'. ,


1 r'-. n- to trl- a little h'Ht uWvt tht: "2tiriiv^?. str.V
Cr--rrr-v '.*-i' I naid th-'.- rde --" i' nr.tntr. mher -w b 350 horce
~pe,-., ~, ^ ijn They t^ llhr re 1 but tiAt t'.r

t t 1 Ty r rtr, Th c- y old

el! thr rnt 1r all 'vw" t'i or.vntry, *t t rrovrri? in tk' Pnuth

th'mr. v.tr -ot.rr truld freezer They didn't seem to At"e' v*tur;

trn"ubl in the "-rth. T.t i s the ntipfr dli'f frV z-. But in the

tnuth they h .-a re It -f trrub le rith the rater meters free: :.'-.

So they vtter.pte'. to fix the meters so thore would be a minia, m










A, S, Porater

1908-1913 i.ittional ;4eter Comparny


an~munt of do-_a.e done to the antor if tho water in t1i. Zeter did
freeze.
Now the ha2neo on thozs watur mators wero g.enC:o .lly held en

with about six bolts and it iront thrcuxh the top cide casiAr

down to the bottrr and there would be bolts holding th' ,t-.jc

pleoes tortther with a gasket? in bntwiren and we carirLAfi :with th}

bose culti rr atny around the belts from tiec to tirac an' wa
would take the notbr and fill it up with water, put: it in a

barrel of oracked itr en, cult nn, freeze it domm and and lwve
it bust open and then do the camie thing, try it again, And
comabr~dy that wac worklingf for the cc-npany quit -he ccmp'uay anr
he tot s ratont and the pattern he got calls fOr a belt, going g
a str-irht bWIlt, with a V cut in it to a crta i:' izet. so th,,
woujl alwIys troenak ihn it gct a pull Hrf a certain aenTvnt, .t
that particular dlactter sh re tht V cut V=4 eut on each .ec .I

of the bolt htnd rind this fellow got the pttcra :.\n oa'c r ':1y
told the co-pany tc look in the pattern cff.ce andc fcunltd .':At if

there Ta.n acch a pattern n onuch a thing. ;-.rai the c- _Anyr riac

the investigation and f0ur,.' out tihct rne .r" th; 30en tv'.0.t th'Ej
had employed quit, rot the p-tttinr3'n m., got thn pstt-rn j..te:ted,
and hb owned it and -so the cr.mpnry paid hi- sr' .uch f:r the ue.,

if a bolt that W.ad been cut to a certain diameter, aV cha Opc in










A U. Frhrsttr
190?-19 -3? J.tie;'l et.r CCm:::'-.


the c!r.tmr, I dr't. know hr .;',:-iy paid.the fellow, uit it;

was vrrrth-rhilo to fc i fallowo, but I d.nsit thin tae felloui did

the xI'ht thiu n. they never thri:u-ht Lr.

:o1 horo*a o uthi I tr.-t.t to tell you. In this trA;:e company

the bitlorn.r. :btor Coariy, they sold a water ,e ter it Wv ; vater

ntor :urnaor one, thesy c'rt kn<..w where it hl ad'bon avOr tiov ye;ra,
but 'b cir.es for ionrfI ra. he ti~uihoht orlc-;, rf it tlrnt they gave

the Lrr.mpn-y, or the rC.a. -,;:dho sent t':e acter in, a brand .nerw mter.

A;.l they sent a rrn UA.j tr see t'hic IFllowr t'.At ot'nmed this Matcr.
It *eIS 5eter .", all th man T:clrtncl V:. the nnter he (dI.n't carn
wIcrthr1 ith asr nbnr 1 r I-tt;rQ 130,0. .- wanteC :actCer so

t.yy rave hi-. th .. t. t .An% they chcie. with the ,an a.nd 'they
f.-unl rut tV-.t he h C.d. t..he -.Z:. t on a truckL, I a d a truck

tint rnsn builtt like r 1:-rrcl anct it cLurri'd water,'. It ;c *.:I n
truck atrc, oer ti-r .he f.ll.: 1:;:. this ta:.~el .-r this tr.;Ack `i;.h
..t?.* to Trnt-.r the street; E.. ";. ty dC.ty 's ho to cUGs th~ metuor

Andl hW; 'd i5t f :,tr ti-r.. !.;.. u .?C itt r.vr a o d, dsaRy s;.:r:y

ycar:;& :n IC he .i?.n't rerv:Tr w ht;e c, li:'t lhva it, but -.ny-
hoo the c mpny gctt t t- itor4rwoC'. It up :i"thruft Etuch trrcubl.

rut it I rn display as the first :.:et&: tlt they ::raao ar:;. it w a

still in f;7rd r.iiklng or nlerO










A. S. FPrster

1908-1913 aitionnl :otor COr;nray


tiwr that ':r-: rhen I rna wprkrin fr the i\tlcnati :;.elor

worklF. iren theyMd rnif over a half million water oatera, so they

felt very lucky in findnr.51 this number 1 neter.
:!oeiw Oninr 1ockl to the isatioral ;iotr Compa-nyis !i2en Clt Ioa-ked

on this airplenr. I spoke of a inan named, i.rambjy. i; he has a
brother, thic brother is a Captain r-alph ,. iYaranby, U S ::vy

retiror* Now in 1938, he wac E & C C'filCer, orn he 'r. ma bl 1;e in

1938. 1,lo ,nr'mt here,.but a chort time Lat lie { 't -s : an.,
I g t to knlmn? hiV' ar- one Oay. I Caid, I have- a pleturs of an -.cld
airplane that .u built wam y back In 1909, f.n it L uuilt i1

tr1'oklyn nrin we tried to fly it but novor I di fly it. i h

juct lonutched n. sald, I bot yoru tta-i~i' the as me :.irpinre t'.-tt my

brother had to %deal with. io le mn10 arnabj cIn ycu ra.; tor h!i?
I an1., I kinrv hfalf way reanmbot the nAwn, but I'll ttll y'l-.

whil hbe vs, he tark a lot of pictures ann.' then he a .L:. -;..: cr.
aor.irnen, ho hon. a g-nd engine jv'b ulth the toveO1r.nioat.
:wtr h)'s on inspector but he -"worl :r' ... n.;i t al4 :":'.-::*-

wnrk t~~y br.ck thin ond he said, I bot he's the v'...; fl:-'w th't
wvs with you inhen you ihad. your plane, I said, I'l* tell y~A what

1'll itn I'1 brinr; down my pictures arn si;r' it tr- *'u, ":e r? -fl,

I have some pictures in a.n old album. I'll just tc~r them ut "f









A, EB FIrster
1908-1913 National Meter Company


the album.and brin.7 them down and let you see them. So he brought
then down and we coap1red, the pictures, sure enough it was the same
airplaneI hc.d a picture of a bunch of men and they were all on
that picture but him. This fellow barnaby and the reason he wasn't
on was he was the fellow that tono: the picture, Otherwise we would
hgve .had a picture f hinm.
SNow this Captain, Pam1b'by when hIe ras :my boss, he was a glider
expert in the Isvy, and he taught a lot of aviators how to fly gliders.
They were thinking at one time of starting aviators in cliders and
then going from Gliders to airplanes but they only put one class
through and it didn't come out satisfactory. In 1939 this Captain
Ralph S. B5rnaby wMs a c. ra Maner,, remember I said, I didn't have
a Capti.ln in our department until 1946. I took all these pictures
over to the photo lab and they made sras negatives and made some
pictures and I think in all there was five pictures and there home
at my home and available if you care to see them
THtIS PART 13 rS-SING UN.BL" TO MAKE IT OUT
C l up, e i up tew 1 e wash
d"p.><. U *>< ~ S M >< .iK^ .?< ^




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