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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida.
DUV 2,6A -
S/G: -his is September 25, 1988. CPat Natalie Glickstein and Sylvia
Shorstein are at-the-home-ef Rabbi Sidney Lefkowit. Wear.e-going. to
intaeviz- w -R-bbi-Lfkwitz. Rabbi, let us begin at the beginning.
Where were you born?
L: I was born in New York, New York--in Manhattan. When I was five,
we moved to Brooklyn in-sorder to get away from the city i[to] a
rural area. The railroad connected Brooklyn with Manhattan and
ran as far as the ,ast liver, and then the ferry would take you
on across to New York--Manhattan. There I went to elementary
school, a public school of about 128. And~iT~wentLt_-------_
j j s4 aa
High-School.. After graduating from t"ee, I went to the
University of Cincinnati and the Hebrew Union College
[Cincinnati, OH] because I had decided that I wanted to be a
rabbi. An uncle of mine, Rabbi David Lefkowitz, then of Dayton,
Ohio, of course was a great influence in my choice. But also my
parents because they both were deeply religious, actively engaged
in the congregation. My mother had served as president of the
sisterhood. And my father had always refused the presidency
because he felt that there should not be any domination in that
S/G: Where was this congregation?
L: The congregation was in Brooklyn, was in the area where we lived,
at that time a very respectable area. InAfact, party country. We
could walk to school by crossing the fields. Later on it became
the place where the hoodlums and the low life of Manhattan and
the entire area around were. But in those days it was not. 4A4
? t the tender age of sixteen, I set forth on that long trip out
west to Cincinnati. I recall my parents had wired Dr. Julie
Morgenstern .ep?-] and-President of the college that I would be on
train so and so and to please have someone to meet me or else I
would lose my way. (laugh) That was probably because I was
sixteen years old and back in those days, that was a young age.
Of course the _S_ ___wen in those days in the Hebrew Union
College and the University of Cincinnati. /e entered the
University of Cincinnati as freshmen and there we took our
academic work: our science, geography, various other courses
that would not be given at the Hebrew Union College. I recall
that the Hebrew Union College had rules and regulations, some of
which were that the applicant had to be interviewed by the
chairman of the board of governors at the Hebrew Union College,
who happened be Alfred Cohen [*sp?, and also by the presidents of
the college himself. And'hen I came up for examination, both
excused themselves because one was related to me through an aunt
and another one was a very, very close friend of my uncle David.
So that was my examination. recall we had to pass a test to
get into the Hebrew Union College. We had been advised that all
that summer we should acquaint ourselves with the reading of
Hebrew. They suggested that we buy a certain book and use that.
Accompanied by my father, I went to the heart of the Jewish
neighborhood in Manhattan and went to the bookstores in order to
find that book. But none of them had it. Finally, we went to
Block Publishing Company and they had the book. It was a olaf
4-) base book, that ahhh,auhh, aghh, buhh, baa, behh and so
S/G: Rabbi, you did not know Hebrew at that time?
L: I knew no Hebrew at all except for the portion that I had been
taught for my Bar Mitzvah. It so happened that that the
congregation, which was a strictly Ieformed congregation, the
classical congregation, though small--about 100 members, there
were not that many.... But of course you knew ne bre was used
r A c IO(M e r
and the rabbis that '_c/_(_ir were benr-f-ed rabbis. But the time
of my bar mitzvah, I recall, the pulpit was open and there was
not a rabbi. We got in touch with Uncle Dave in order to be of
help to us. Of course my birthday always fell near the holidays
even if it does not fall on the holiday, Rosh Hosannah itself.
And so, the rabbi said that he would be happy to have the
ceremony in his congregation. Well of course, that would not do.
But they did find a rabbi who was visiting in New York who was
retired, his name was Clifton Harvey Levy, one of the old, old
families of the south. And he came, he knew my uncle and spoke
about him, for my bar mitzvah which was very pleasing for me.
S/G: Let us go back to when you were in college. Were you a supply
rabbi in any of the smaller communities? And tell me how you got
L: First, during our fourth year, we were made available to
congregations that were just large enough to have services and
the high holy days. And they would all look forward to this shot
in the arm to sustain them for the entire year. I recall the
first one that I went to was in 1928. And it was in Opelousas,
Louisiana, a lovely little town that was the parish seat, as they
call their counties in Louisiana. They call them parishes. I,
who had never been south of the Ohio river, arrived with a nice
black wool suit and the perspiration just engulfed me. But they
were very gracious people and they would walk me from one store
to another, most of the stores in that town. We would wind up
always at one place where we would drink black coffee, that is
good for you, it cools you off. And it was Louisiana coffee, you
know, Mississippi mud. That was my first experience. I recall
the headline. Opelousas did not have a newspaper, but a nearby
town did and covered it. I had the headline, "Famous Cincinnati
Divine visits Opelousas." That was my first headline. I was
then twenty-one years old.
S/G: When were you were born?
S/G: We are talking about 1928, so you were approximately twenty-one
years old then.
L: That was sure to get me off on the wrong foot. It was a small
congregation, as I say, though it had its own building which was
large enough for/forty or fifty people who came from Opelousas
and from towns around about. There I was wined and dined, and
that is where I developed my dislike for chicken. I do not eat
chicken because they would entertain me in their homes. In this
little town, in those days, the noon meal was dinner and the
evening meal is dinner, so that was chicken twice a day. No one
was happier to greet Yom Kippur than I was! The second year, the
year following, I was honored by being asked to return there, so
I was very glad to do so. We have continued some friendships as
late as five years ago with individuals in Opelousas. We
returned during the war when we were located in Louisiana, in a
little training camp. We visited with them in Opelousas.
S/G: When you graduated from Hebrew Union College, was Richmond your
first pulpit assignment?
L: No. My junior year we were assigned to what were called biweekly
pulpits. We would leave Cincinnati in the morning on Friday and
"a '5, 4 A
go to whatever town we were assigned to. I wasADanville,
Illinois: a congregation of about fifty or sixty people. We had
services on Friday evening and the religious school on Saturday
morning. We could leave then after Saturday evening, and return
to Cincinnati. I was there every other week for my junior and
senior years./ In fact, during that two-year period the banks
were closed, you recall, with the election of Roosevelt. They
phoned me and said not to come up. I told them not to worry
about it; I took a course in economics when I was at the
University of Cincinnati, and therefore when the banks closed I
withdrew my account. So I was able to take care of expenses
myself. Then I told them that when conditions were normalized
they could repay me. They were very grateful for that. That was
in my junior and senior years. Then came that great year of
1933; I believe it was the year of the Depression. I think it
was the APnk of the Depression. I know that there were only a
handful of us in the graduating class that obtained positions;
the rest of the men were permitted to remain in the dormitory
until something might open for them. So I went to Richmond,
first as assistant rabbi, and then as associate rabbi. I met
Dorothy in the second or third year I was there. We were not
married in Richmond because of the fact that Dorothy's
grandmother was an invalid and lived in Atlantic City. She lived
there because of the boardwalk and the chairs; there she was able
to [ ]. Their home was in home was in Lancaster,
Pennsylvania, but during the summer months they moved to Atlantic
City. Of course, we had to wait until after Sukkot was over in
order to marry because we had set our marriage for the fall. So
S I k 6 CFPW f -17_ f/r I r, C, /,Z7
immediately after Sukkotwe were married. That is why we will
have our fiftieth wedding anniversary, God willing, October 23,
just two days after her birthday.
S/G: You have got a triple-header this time. You are in Richmond, and
war breaks out.
L: War breaks out, and I recall we were seated with Dorothy's folks
in their home on Monument Avenue in Richmond. I will show you
why I mention Monument Avenue: because you wI-t see a chair
there, and that is a chair that goes back to the time of the
"pathfinder of the seas," [Matthew Fontaine] Maury, the one who
first plotted the currents of the oceans. Somehow this became a
family heirloom. Maury's momument, incidentally, is directly in
front of their home. ?We were seated there at the radio, or
-l k, AC k an JaPE nTrwoe I
whatever it was that we had, and ther.e-was Pearl Harbor. I said,
"I think that is where I belong." I first talked it over with
Dot, and I remember we drove to Washington the following week and
A tv C^^
went to the chief of Chaplain office and volunteeredAservices.
Chaplains and clergymen are not drafted. I had my classification
(I still have it) of four. That is after widows and children;
that is when they would draft them! [laughter] I felt, and put
it this way to myself, that there was no way I could face a
congregation that would be made up of those who had lost children
or mates or parents or who had themselves been wounded or who
went through that ekereRGe--how I could face them in later years
without having had the experience with them to share it, so that
I could know. Of course, now I klow ,fj But, on the other
hand, I thought that e>'i sJ4oJspeak out of experience. Therefore,
from there I went into the military. /f course, I asked Dot
where we wanted to be sent for training, and she thought she
would like to be in a nice little cozy cottage in, say, Florida.
So we said [we wanted te] the South, we would never think of
going north. She still is among-the Reconstructionists.
[laughter] We went to Alexandria, Louisiana, just outside of
Alexandria, which was Camp Livingston. There e were/for almost
two years. The people in the Jewish community there were just
delightful. We still have, among our dearest friends, friends
from Louisiana. We are in touch with them continually, we talk
with them on the phone every other week, and we correspond with
them. We spoke with them as recently as the week before last.
R There we were in Camp Livingston as assistant camp chaplain. I
was on the staff of the colonel in charge of the entire camp.
There were two divisions of soldiers: one was from Nashville, and
the other was the 28th Division from Pennsylvania. The camp
chaplain was the brother-in-law of the general of the 28th
Division, which had been 4i-et National Guard and had been
federalized. There he, this chaplain--sweet fellow who had
taught Bible in a girls school outside of Philadelphia and whose
brother-in-law was the general of the Pennsylvania National
Guard--needed a chaplain. He asked me if I would be a chaplain,
and I said sure. I was his assistant chaplain at Camp
Livingston. The general of the 28th Division was elected
governor of the state of Pennsylvania, and the first thing he did
after he got in office was to move the chaplain out ef the- amp
and movd- him-up to a camp just outside of Philadelphia. So
automatically Colonel Smith, the commanding officer of Camp
Livingston, appointed me chaplain. /n the camp, as I said, there
were two divisions in training. In addition, there were hospital
outfits receiving training, and other troops who had their own
chaplains. Here I was the one to whom they would have to refer.
I went to Colonel Smith and said, "Colonel, if I may (I was stiff
and formal, standing at six paces and so on), I would suggest
that you are making a mistake. Here there are twenty-eight
chaplains in this camp. Every one of them out-ranks me (I was
then a lieutenant), and I am the only one who is Jewish." He
said, "You represent me; that is what you do. You are my
chaplain, and if you have any difficulty with them at any time,
just let me know. You are the chaplain." It was an experience
that was exceeded, of course, by others, but that was the first
experience I had of that nature. It made me have a great deal
more respect for the military. /We were there for about two
years. We covered Camp Livingston and Camp Claiborne (which was
on the other side of Alexandria), and Essler Field. I was on the
go continually, moving all kinds of situations and problems. I
got a call from the hospital at Clairborne that there was a
Jewish soldier in the hospital, and he was dying because he would
not eat. I said I would be over immediately. I went there and I
spoke with him. He was strictly orthodox, and he would not eat
any of the food. I said that was contrary to even orthodox law,
that there was a compilation of decisions that was reached in
orthodoxy during the time of Alexander: the Jewish boys would be
picked up at the age of twelve in Russian villages and were made
to serve in the army. It was called the Alexandrian Kadetten
ZLsp or something of that sort. They stayed in the army until
they were about thirty. Therefore, there were these special laws
that in time of war you eat what you canea-t, whait-ye -an get,
because life is more important than the law. So I read that to
him and straightened that out. Incidentally, it was a very
widening experience for me, because I had always been brought up
in the form Jewish circumstances. In fact, what is now called
classical reform was the reform which, to me, was the normal
reform. My father was chairman of the committee--I guess you
would call it the ritual committee today--and he would climb over
the rabbi if he tried to change something. I said I always felt
sorry for him!
S/G: Rabbi, under what circumstances did you get to Europe? Was your
division moved out?
L: No. The circumstances were right in the middle of the
observances of Passover. [There] came immediate movement orders
for me to appear in camp so-and-so in Greensboro, Pennsylvania
and be processed for overseas duty. Immediate travel orders.
S/G: What year was this? Do you remember? You went in in 1941, and
you were there two years. That would make it Passover of 1943,
if the figures are right.
L: That is right. It was the year, of course, of the invasion.
S/G: Well, the invasion was in 1944.
L: All right, then, this was 1944.
S/G: So you moved in April of 1944.
L: Yes, in April, 1944, we were moved. We went to the readiness
camp. I had gone to chaplains school, of course; after I had
been in the army for six months, I was sent to chala4s- school to
learn how to be a chaplain. After I had been one for six months!
I was sent to Harvard, and there we wereAfor four weeks and
became chaplains. I promptly unlearned everything that we had
been taught there because it was not that way in the army. I
remember Colonel Smith tried to keep me from going. He asked for
the record I had had at chaplains school--of course, it is on the
permanent record which you carry around with you--and I showed it
to him. He called the eighth service command and said, "This man
is essential. He cannot be moved." They said things were from a
higher orders. He did everything he could to keep me. Mrs.
Smith and Dorothy were good friends; they played bridge one day
of the week. I can elaborate on it if you want.
S/G: I wanted to find out about...
L: We went through this very fast training period of learning how to
pitch a tent, learning how to dig a fox hole, how to make an
isolated barrier, how to test a gas mask, how to go-thuh the
____ --bg th-a--fence crawlilg-on the ground so as not to be
hit, and so on. From there I was sent overseas. Of course--we
would letus_know about some rumor that would lead you to believe
that.... had gone in, incidentally, on a limited service on
account of my throat, which had already two operations on it--
polyps on the vocal cords--and also my glasses, so the army did
not want to be responsible for any of that. They accepted me,
but for limited service. That was all they could give me was
some warehouse somewhere or something of that sort. Hardly did
we arrive at camp than we heard this rumor. I do not know if you
have the time for it.
S/G: Well, we do want to get all of the facts and information from you
L: After I had been/lonly a few days, the movement orders came
through that I was to report at the beach head from this place
where we were at the time.
S/G: Did you go over in the first wave on June 6, 1944, or did you go
L: I was not in on the first wave, but I was in on the first period.
The Seventh Corps, with which I was associated and to which I was
delegated and appointed, was known as the "seventh star corps of
the first army," since it was in alybattles of the first army.
I was in that. I remember the crossing. I have never been a
good sailor. It4-d+ -not-mean-alyth-ing-about-being--a-gd-sa-lor
or not .
S/G: What were you crossing?
L: The [English] Channel. We landed at Utah Beach. [Rabbi
Lefkowitz apparently leaves and retrieves a map]
S/G: How long did it take you to get from Omaha, through France, swept
around here, and to A*chen?
L: This will tell you. [He pulls out a map.] On our left was the
fifth corps, and on our right was some other corps that I did not
have contact with. In any case, I was a very good friend of
I R l Ii I / 6 1 ,
General Collins. [Side one ends] ...lives in Orlando at the
Lutheran Home for the Aged. He was/thirty-three years old. We
are in constant correspondenceand-I-wouldbe_-representing-him.
any-way-,-show-he-was-Jewish. The chaplain phoned -e to tell me
that General Rose [sp?] had been killed and suggested that I take
care of the funeral. I asked how he was listed in his 10-01
file; I was suspicious. He was listed as Presbyterian, so I
said, "Chaplain, do not choose me. I do not bury Presbyterians
when there are other chaplains available." I refused to do it,
and that caused quite a to-do. I remember the trouble that some
of these GIs would have getting relief in order to attend a
Jewish service when they wanted to go. Here he was in the
position where I would hold a Jewish service in his tent, and he
would never come in. I just refused to [perform his burial
service]. Those who know me know why.
S/G: That is quit1I different from the experience of Micky Marcus
-.sp?], who was also a high-ranking person in the army. I do not
want to get into that. Everyone knows about your experience at
Aiehen -Esp?]. I remember vividly hearing the original broadcast,
and I have a copy of your-4-]: "The first Jewish services were
held in Germany in two places by U. S. troops yesterday. It was
Yom Kippur, and 300 soldiers gathered on the hillside in-_
for morning service by Chaplain Sidney M. Lefkowitz of Richmond,
Virginia. I the afternoon 150 men heard the chaplain in a wool
mill,.at- Lefkowitz served three divisions and one corps
yesterday." This is dated September 28,from Belgium. bhat-year?
L: There was a little / building, and the shells were coming
in. NBC had phoned Dorothy and sent her a wire that this service
would be broadcast, and she would like to be advised of it. She
heard those shells coming in. Now, of course, to the news people
4r C i4`i( ( cc (c-L bL w- 7/ (i4( '/jc/zCVt1s/
had to go back where it was nice and quiet. We went back about
six miles to the Dragon's Teeth. Those poles had been set up by
the Germans so that the tanks could not go through; they had to
4 //-V 15 iU,S iiA 1)7Cr
go around. That, then,/was difficult. As it went from paper to
paper, the 0((ou.J got longer. This was October 29.
S/G: Yes, that was the date of the first broadcast from Germany.
L: That was not the first service.
S/G: No, but this was the first broadcast. That was the thing that
was so moving. I think we ought to move along, Rabbi. You got
through the war, and you returned to Richmond.
L: We returned to Richmond while the war was still on. We were
ordered back. The war with Japan was still on, and we were all
ordered back to the United States, given a month of rest and
rehabilitation, and returned. We were released in Maryland and
took a train down to Wake where Dorothy was with her folks. We
spent some of the time there, and we went up to visit our folks
in New York. Then I had to report back to Maryland, and by train
we went out to San Luis Obispo, where a corps was reforming.
Then we were to go to Japan. I told Dot not to come out with me.
-/ When we got out to San Luis Obispo, General Collins called us
together and said, "I have just received my orders. I have been
received of command of the seventh corps, and I have been called
to the Pentagon. So any of you who are not regular army and want
to request service within the limitations of the United States
can do so." I did so immediately. I did not want to go to
Japan. __/ had told Dot not to come out, but I phoned her--I
had to be guarded in my conversation--and said that she had
better come out. There she was stuck in Virginia try-i-n-ig to get
transportation out to California, but she did. She came out, and
from there we went to Camp- in San Diego. From there we
went back to Camp Livinsgston and Camp Claiborne in Louisiana.
There my number of points came up for discharge from the service,
so I was discharged f-rom-the-service. / -am still in uniform: the
National Conference of Christians and Jews wanted me to become
associated with them and join their national staff. I had done
some work for them with Chaplain Cohee -ep.], who was the chief
chaplain of the service command, and we had spoken [about
joining]. In fact, as I recall, he spoke at the New Orleans port
of embarkation to 40,000 men with one of these huge microphone
devices. [He also spoke at] factories and everywhere. I was
insistent that I wanted to get back into the pulpit. /So I am
)^OP n congregations
still in uniform, and- I got a call from the Q d) congregations
that the pulpit was open. They gave me three options. One was
Atlanta, one was where I would be associated with Rabbi Marks
(who was still living and was with the Temple in North Carolina),
or Jacksonville. I went to the one in North Carolina first
because it was nearest. We just went down to go back; we were
living with Dot's folks in Virginia. At that time they had a
parsonage and they offered a salary of $5,000. I said I would
think it over, and that I would be looking at two others. Oh,
there was another one in New Orleans. I went to New Orleans from
Camp Claiborne while I was still there and looked it over [with]
a very dear friend, an older friend of mine, and my uncle--
Leipsiger -fs?] was his name. Also in New Orleans was my very,
very good friend, who had been since my college days. In fact,
he was one of the boys who was sent down to meet me at the train.
There were three reformed congregations there, and he was in one
of the others.
S/G: Were there five of them?
L: Yes, five of them. So I checked on that one too. We came here
S/G: Rabbi, when you arrived in Jacksonville, who were the first
people you met, and what were your first experiences in the city?
L: The first ones whom we met were the Meyersons fsp], the
Glicksteins [-sp2?-, and a group in the Avondale/Riverside [area]
some of whom, many of whom now have gone. Sam and Sadie
Buchholtz [sp?-] were some of our dearest friends. The Joels...?
S/G: Louis and Hilda Joel?
L: Louis and Hilda. There was a group already established, and they
were the ones who took our hands. In addition, the Rosenthals
and the Wilkinsons [were good friends]. Dot's folks had been
down here at a wedding between...
S/G: Sister Wilkinson and Straws -ept-?.
L: That is right, Maurice Straws [-sp?-; I recall that we stayed at
the George Washington Hotel as a guest of Lou Wolfson [S?-]. We
finally got an apartment, an Eddleson-?2] apartment, and I think
Herbert Myerson .sp?] had to pay $100 from Israel or something.
S/G: Jimmy Edelstein sp3-3- had the apartments.
L: That is right, right across the street from where the river
garden is now. Then it was just being converted.
S/G: When you joined the congregation, do you remember how many
families were in the congregation?
L: Yes, I know exactly: there were 189. In order to get a special
rate on postage for mailing the "Messenger" you had to have 200,
so we took fifteen members of a sister group that were not
members of the congregation and added them that way. So that is
why I know. I remember there was no kindergarten and no ReiioJ
school. We started with the first grade, and confirmation was
the end of the ninth grade. So I was A some education, and
I said, "No, I think this is wrong. I think we ought to start
earlier." There were only eghy-odd children in the religious
school. You would not even remember where we met. I would go
down there early on Sunday morning in order to get the drunks out
of the place. They would get drunk on Main Street and come over
to [the temple].
S/G: That was the old temple on Laura and Ashley [Streets].
L: The liquor stores were right around the block. We met in the
S/G: I know there is a difference in titles. Were you associate
rabbi, assistant rabbi, or what?
L: I was rabbi-in-waiting. [laughter] We would have a period of
six months to look each other over, you see.
S/G: Do you mean the congregation and you?
L: Right. Of course, it was after I got the rabbi pio/ I got a
contract for another three years. I pleaded with them: "Why did
you not say something?" I was one of the rabbis who was out
early. Remember we were released according to the number of
points that you had?
S/G: Do you know how many points you had?
L: I do not recall, but I do recall that I had the points for time
overseas, and I had points for a bronze star.
S/G: The battle stars?
L: The battle stars. The seventh corps had seven battle stars. I
had seven battle stars; that is what I had. I recorded six, but
I actually had seven. So I had credit for that. I was therefore
out early. Atlanta finally said they had to make the cut, so
they invited me to come there. I said I could not, that I had
made an obligation. I had accepted an obligation./ Incidentally,
when I went down to that congregation in Wilmington [NC/], where
all of these railroads came from just a year or two later.
Remember it transferred its headquarters from this town. Here I
recall a meeting in Joe's house, and it was finally decided that
they would release me. I called North Carolina and said that
something has arisen and I wanted them to call a special meeting
of the board. I went there and said, "I know I have accepted
your offer. I accepted it by telegram from Jacksonville."
something 7ike that, notknowing-who was in it. I said I would
serve them loyally for a year and then go. They said they
understood and accepted my resignation. So then I wired Joe and
said that it was clear for me to come here. I recall when they
asked me what salary [I wanted], I said I could not tell them. I
said, "I have been in the military for four years, now, and I do
not know what a loaf of bread costs." So Wilmington offered me
even more. They had a parsonage and $5,000. This was $4,500.
S/G: Rabbi Kaplan [sp?] was still in the pulpit?
L: He was still in the pulpit. We would alternate. What I also did
was, even before preaching I would hold services out at the naval
air station. After all, I was one of the first out, and sailors
[still needed services]. We would hold services there and rush
caek to town for the 8:00 service here. I would pick up Dot on
the way in, because we lived on Belvedere Avenue.
S/G: It must have been a very difficult time for you in that interim
period from the time that you came until the time Rabbi Kaplan
L: Fortunately the Korean War had broken out. Joe Levinson, who had
been in the military as a chaplain, remained in. I, also, had
remained in the reserve. But then I had a kidney operation, and
they wrote me and said that I could no longer serve in the
reserve because medical conditions that could not be cured in six
months [are not allowed]. Then Rabbi Kaplan went there from
where he is.
S/G: Where was that?
L: Wilmington, North Carolina.
S/G: He went to Harrisonburg, Pennsylvania, and he filled in in
various pulpits in various places, including South America.
L: That is right.
S/G: This was after he left Jacksonville. He actually did move out of
Jacksonville for a number of years, and then he moved back.
L: They / "-
S/G: It was a very ambivalent situation, very ambiguous, you might
say, from the beginning until things straightened out. Being a
rabbi, what did you consider the greatest problem in the temple?
What is your major concern in the temple?
L: My major concern in the temple was not to aggravate the
situation. I realized that some were friends of Rabbi Kaplan,
and I realized that there were those who did not feel that way.
I tried in every way not to aggravate the situation. Things that
I insisted on. I wore a robe, and I was going to continue
wearing a robe. When Rabbi Kaplan did not have a robe, I had two
robes, so I said he could use the other robe. "I do not wear a
robe." He did not to have to wear a robe. Do you remember the
L: Do you remember Bentus Piasa [sp?]?
L: Do you remember the playing of the notes of the shofar? I said
we could not do that.
S/G: Meditation for the ?
L: That was all right; that was fine.
S/G: That was confirmation, right?
L: I think so. But on Yom Kippur, then...
[The interview is interrupted and not continued]