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COPYRIGHT NOTICE


This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
107) which allows limited use of copyrighted
materials under certain conditions.
Fair use limts the amount of material that may be
used.

For all other permissions and requests, contact the
SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida












Interviewer: Verena Krausneker

Interviewee: Noel Lake

UF 299AB



K: This is Verena Krausneker talking to Mr. Noel Lake at his

home at 630 SW 26th Place in Gainesville, Florida. Today

the date is the 15th, I believe?

L: Yes, income tax day.

K: Oh, I see. April the 15th, 1996. First here a question

about the photos you took. I talked to Dr. Proctor and he

got very excited and said the Archive of UF would love to

have those pictures.

L: Oh, okay, I will try to round them up.

K: Yes. I guess there is no hurry, but he just said they are

definitely very interested in them.

L: I had asked another professor before and he was not

interested in all.

K: Dr. Proctor is the right person to talk about that. Maybe I

should tell you a little bit about me. I am a student from

Austria and I am just here for a year. My minor is history

and I am taking a seminar class with Dr. Proctor. The

special thing we are working about now is the Plaza as I

have told you on the phone.

L: So that is what you want to know about today?

K: Yes, I would like to know a little bit about your person

too.










L: Okay.

K: If that is possible.

L: Yes.

K: And then probably because you are the specialist concerning

landscape and planning and everything about the Plaza. Sir,

could you first tell me your full name please? Plus middle

names.

L: Noel Reese Lake.

K: When and where were you born?

L: I was born in Jacksonville, [Florida] June the 9th, 1926.

K: Could you maybe tell me your parents full names too?

L: My mother is still living. I think she is ninety years old.

Her name is Katie Lake. My dad died back in 1960 and his

name was William Reese Lake.

K: Your mother's maiden name?

L: Was Katie Hill.

K: Hill?

L: Hill.

K: Okay that is all the demographic information. [both laugh]

So you were born in Jacksonville and you grew up there and

you went to school there?

L: That is right I went to school there and I joined the Army

Air Corps in my last year in high school and then I went in

the service. I spent two years in Army Air Corps and the

war ended before I finished training, but I did not go over

seas. I went over to and to the Philippines.

K: You went over there to...?









L: Well, to take the places of the fellows that were coming

home after the war was over.

K: Were you excited about doing that?

L: Yes, I was excited. It was very interesting.

K: How long did you say you spent abroad?

L: Oh, let us see, about a year I guess it was on

That is where they had the air base from which the atomic

bomb was flown. As a matter of fact, that was the 505th

Bomb Group and for awhile I was in the 504th Bomb Group.

No, that was the 509th Bomb Group, that is right. 509th,

then I was in the 504th for awhile, and then in the 505th

for awhile, that is the way it was. Then one of the

interesting things that I helped do was deactivate the

twentieth Air Force and move all of their equipment to the

thirteenth Air Force which was in the Philippines at Clark

Field.

K: So you went over there then?

L: Yes, I went to the Philippines.

K: Wow, that is a completely different part of the world.

L: Yes, that is right. It was interesting.

K: Being in the military did you see something of the life

there, of the people, of the natives there or were you

mainly on the base and in American culture?

L: Well, mainly on the base, but yes I got to see the Filipinos

quite a bit. They were interesting people. They are small

people, stature wise, but they were friendly. In a way I

think back and I am glad that at last we are out of the









Philippines. Let them have it to themselves. Quite a few

years ago the volcano erupted all over Clark Field and they

have abandoned that base. In a way, I think that is a good

thing. Get the Americans out of there.

K: Then you came back after about a year.

L: I came back and the talk was about the GI Bill. I had not

much thought about ever going to college, but I did not know

what else to do. I decided maybe I ought to take advantage

of the GI Bill and come here to the University of Florida

and go to school. I did not know exactly what I wanted to

major in but I finally decided on ornamental horticulture or

landscape horticulture is what I had in mind. I started in

ornamental horticulture here at the University in February

of 1947. I went by the classroom for landscape architecture

one day and I saw what they were doing and I said boy that

is what I would like to do. I can do those drawings that

they were doing. So I went to see my professor, actually I

went to see Dr. [Harold] Hume [Dean, College of Agriculture,

1943 1950]. You have heard of him right, Harold Hume?

K: Yes.

L: He was head of The College of Agriculture then. I asked him

what he thought about me switching majors to landscape

architecture. He said, well go for it if that is what you

want to do. Maybe you can come back after you get your

degree in landscape architecture and go ahead and finish

your degree in ornamental horticulture. That is just what I

did. I went and got a degree in landscape architecture with









high honors and came back and spent another year. I thought

I had another year on the GI Bill but it turned out that I

did not. They made a mistake. Anyway, I got a job as my

professor's lab assistant and finished the year out and got

my degree in ornamental horticulture. Then I had gone down

to Palm Beach with two of my classmates that had graduated

the year before I did and they were checking on a position

in Palm Beach. They decided not to go to work down there,

but I decided that I would go work that summer. It was the

summer before my last year. I liked it so when I got my

degree in horticulture I went back and worked there for

about five years in Palm Beach.

K: Was that the small field back then, landscaping and that?

L: Yes, that is interesting too. It was, there were hardly any

professional landscape architects in the state of Florida.

One got started about the time I was started in Palm Beach.

I can not think of his name right away but he was in Fort

Lauderdale, there was two in Fort Lauderdale as a matter of

fact. Another one Porter Reynolds, he was in Fort

Lauderdale. A few years later as I worked in Palm Beach one

of my classmates came to work down there as a professional

landscape architect. A few years later he helped to

organize the landscape architecture, the few that were in

the state of Florida. Now there is a lot of them. There is

a thousand or so I guess. The field has grown a lot.

K: Does the field include gardening and that kind of knowledge

about plants and stuff like that?









L: Yes, but they do not emphasize that very much. They

emphasize your design, larger scale developments like sub-

divisions and things like that, more than they do the

horticulture part of it.

K: What was the field that interested you the most about

landscaping? What aspect was your favorite one?

L: Well, I had always liked to draw and that is one of the

things that interested me when I saw what they were doing.

The professors they had at that time let them do a lot of

drawings. That picture there is one of them we did as a

class project. It was a sketch problem.

K: Wow!

L: We were suppose to do that in one afternoon. did

that in one afternoon from a little poem on the back of that

that you had to describe.

K: Great! Wow! Then you were in West Palm Beach and you

worked with a company?

L: I worked right in Palm Beach, right in the heart of Palm

Beach. That was the best apprenticeship I think anybody

could have had in that field at that time. That is where

the really wealthy people live and they spend a lot of money

on their landscapes.

K: So it was like individual people would hire you for their

garden?

L: Yes, for estates. A lot of big estates on the island of

Palm Beach. I did a little bit of work over in West Palm









Beach and Lake Worth, but mostly right there in Palm Beach

on the island.

K: How long do you usually spend with one estate?

L: It depends, it varies a lot.

K: I have no clue about that, this is all very new and

interesting.

L: You try to draw up a plan and work out an estimate in about

a day. You can do about one a day I would say.

K: Then what if they have ideas of what they would like, do

they tell you that?

L: Yes, you go talk to them, find out what they have in mind.

The people down in that area would seem to have less

interest in the details then they do here in Gainesville

area. They would kind of leave it up to us. What I do

there, I would go sell the job to the client, draw up the

plans as part of the selling technique and then the

president of the company would assign me a crew of men and I

would actually go out and do the work, supervise the work.

So you did the whole thing. I liked that way of doing it.

Where as now, in this area or I guess mostly throughout the

state, the landscape architects draw up plans and

specifications and bid their work. Landscape construction

companies, the lowest bidders, usually get the job to do the

work.

K: What happened then, after five years in West Palm Beach?









L: I was down there a year I guess working full time and got

married and my wife and I stayed down there another three or

four years.

K: When did you get married? What year?

L: I got married in 1951 I think it was. She was from

Jacksonville too and our parents, especially her parents,

wanted us to move closer back to Jacksonville. I had

applied for a job twice before [and] I had done some tests

that were for civil service work in landscape architecture.

I had passed the test and they offered me the job and I

turned it down twice. The third time they had offered it to

me again and the about that same time I heard about this job

opening here at the University, superintendent of grounds at

the University. I applied for that and just before I

decided to leave to take the government civil service job in

Philadelphia, they made up their minds. J. Wayne Reitz

[President Emeritus, University of Florida, 1967 1982]

made up his mind to hire me to be superintendent of the

grounds here at the University. Just before I came here to

the University to be superintendent of grounds, the grounds

department and the police department were combined because

they were both so small. The fellow that was in charge of

those two combined departments had been appointed Sheriff of

Alachua County.

K: Which two departments?

L: Grounds and campus police. They were all the same

department, but they were growing. When he was appointed









Sheriff they decided to split the department and make a

police department and a grounds department so I never did

have anything to do with the police department. It began to

grow. The campus was growing. When I came here the main

part of the campus ended right behind the HUB. McCarty Hall

had not been built yet. It was started I think the year

after I came here. The Health Center had not been built, it

was just a corn field down there then. There was not even a

road going down in that direction.

K: Do you remember what year that was when you started?

L: I started work here in September of 1955. They started both

those buildings, they started the Health Center I think in

1956 and McCarty Hall, so the campus began to spread right

then.

K: Your official position was superintendent for grounds.

L: Superintendent of grounds. Later they upgraded that

position to landscape and grounds-keeping superintendent.

Then about twenty-five, twenty-six years later they decided

to take the landscape design which I had always had. I had

had a few landscape designers working for me, usually it was

landscape architecture students working part time. We had

finally gotten a full-time position for that, for landscape

designer. Well we had more than that. We had one full-time

position and several part-time positions. They decided to

split those departments. I said, if you are going to do

that I would like to be the campus landscape designer. That

is what they did. For the last about seven years I was









there that is what it was. I was campus landscape

architect. I had one fellow working with me full-time too.

Two of us did that together.

K: Before the superintendent position, you had a lot of people

working for you?

L: I had about 140 positions, but that did not tell the whole

story. We had a 140 line item positions, but I do not

remember having them all filled at one time. We had a

tremendous turnover, over 100 percent almost every year.

K: How come?

L: The University of Florida paid less than anybody else

working. If any governmental agency, like the city or the

county, saw somebody that was working for us they liked they

could hire them right out away from us because they would

pay them more. They did that a lot.

K: What things did your division have to take care of? Was it

the planting on ground and landscape? Are the cleaning

people the same?

L: The way I used to figure it about 30 to 40 percent of our

man power was spent on grounds maintenance, just cleaning up

the grounds. The other about 60 percent of the time was

spent on new construction, doing new landscapes. That was

not enough, we could not keep up. As fast as they were

building buildings here and then expanding the campus we

just could not do the new landscapes as fast as we should

have been able.









K: That includes the hills and planting new trees and stuff

like that?

L: Yes. We did some fairly heavy construction work too. We

dug the canal that leads from the Health Center to Lake

Alice. We had drag lines, and bull dozers and all kinds of

heavy equipment. We built a garbage transfer station. That

was under the grounds department, the collection and

disposal of refuse. We did the sign painting, traffic

painting, maintaining of the roads, even paved some roads.

We did all the sidewalk construction and retaining walls

construction. There is something in the paper today about

all the bricks they use on campus showing some workers

building a retaining wall and planners we usually do a lot

of that. All the irrigation installation and maintenance of

the operations of irrigation. Since I was superintendent of

grounds they have taken several of those chores away from

ground and they have organized a utility department. I do

not think that the refuse collection comes under grounds any

more nor does the installation of irrigation mains. The

road and traffic sign chores come under utilities now I

think.

K: When you first started you took over from somebody else who

had the position before you I imagine?

L: Yes, that was what I said awhile ago. That was Joe Kavasc.

Joe Kavasc was appointed Sheriff by the government.

K: That was his?

L: He was in charge of grounds and police departments.









K: But his education was police?

L: His education was horticulture. He got a masters degree in

horticulture here at the University of Florida. He got the

job as superintendent of the grounds. A minor part of the

grounds back then was the police department. We did not

have very many policemen, did not need them.

K: It is such a funny combination. [laughter]

L: They did not need very many policeman so they let him be in

charge since he knew and understood police work pretty good,

had not had any experience and was a good politician. The

governor appointed him sheriff when they got rid of the

sheriff here in Alachua County. He stayed sheriff until he

retired.

K: You worked parallel then. When you first came on campus,

did you have any ideas or plans that you wanted to change

things? Or was there so much things that had to be done?

L: No, not very much. I tried hard to continue what Joe Kavsac

had already started. I did not want to make any sudden

changes. But I did do this, my wife and I would take our

vacations in the summertime, wherever we would go if we

passed anywhere near another college campus I would be sure

to visit and see what they were doing and see what it looked

like. That is one of the things you asked me a little bit

ago about the Plaza of Americas. I remember one time I had

given a lot of thought to Plaza of Americas. Well what is

wrong that people do not use it?

K: When you came people did not hang out there?









L: No, they did not use the Plaza of the Americas very much.

They would use the crosswalk to cross from one part of the

campus to the other. They never did congregate out there.

Finally, I decided maybe it is too expansive, it is just too

big. People do not feel comfortable there. I remember

visiting the campus of Wake Forrest in Winston Salem, North

Carolina, they had just built a new campus. While it was

still brand new we happened to go by there one day and I

noticed that they had developed a mall on their campus and

had lined the mall with magnolia trees. That is about as

far North as our native magnolia grand of Florida will grow.

Something clicked in my mind. I said, boy look how that

defines space those heavy magnolias. So I said maybe that

is what we need to do. I came back and decided that we

would plant a double row of magnolias in the Plaza of the

Americas and try to open up the center and close the space

in a little bit. That is what we did. Many years later,

they built Library West on the north end of the Plaza of the

Americas, that helped give a feeling of enclosure too. It

gave a good solid wall to the north end. It was interesting

that when they built the building I went there and they

lined up the building with the rows of magnolias we planted.

They were exactly symmetrical, just like they cleared off a

few inches. I said, hey you should have moved the building

over this way a little bit so it would have lined up with

our magnolias. I think then that scheme worked. Even

before they built Library West people began to congregate










more there in the Plaza. Actually, I have not been there.

I have not looked at it lately. I do not know how the

magnolias have grown. I do remember one incident that when

they used to have the preliminary skits for homecoming they

would have the try outs out there in the Plaza of the

Americas. One day a boy called me and said one of the

magnolias that we had planted was in the way of setting up

his stage for his skit. I said well move your stage. No,

he had to put it right there and we should come over and

move the magnolia. I said we cannot do that it is the wrong

time of the year to try to transplant a tree. It is too big

anyway. He said, well if you do not come move it, it will

not be there tomorrow. I happened to go by there the next

day and there was a magnolia lying out on the ground. They

had cut it down.

K: They did?

L: Yes.

K: Did that make you mad?

L: That made me very mad.

K: I can imagine.

L: The next winter when we could plant trees, we got one as

large as was available and planted it in its place. It was

years behind all of the others then.

K: I have had older students tell me that they remember that

there used to be more bushes and flowers on the Plaza. Now

it is more trees and meadows there is not so many magnolias.









L: Another thing is that when I was a student, this is

something they ought to try again, they used to have Pan-

American day and they had flags for every Pan-American

country and they had a monument on the edge of the Plaza of

the Americas and a place to stand those flags. They even

planted a live oak tree for every country. Those live oak

trees ring the Plaza of the Americas. I thought that was

kind of nice and I think that is something they ought to try

again. Have Pan-American day and put up all of the flags of

all of the Pan-American countries.

K: What is your favorite area on the campus? I imagine you

know every spot on there.

L: [laughter] The favorite area, I do not know. I never

thought much about that. I do not know whether I have a

favorite area or not. The Reitz Union, probably.

K: If you go by the Plaza now every noon there are so many

people there that just sit in the grass and enjoy

themselves. Did you know they serve food there? The Hare

Krishnas?

L: Yes, I had heard that, yes.

K: People go there to have their lunch. It is a big social

center of the Plaza now.

L: That is good, that is the way it ought to be. You know, it

was interesting that after they built the Reitz Union they

tried to move some of those gatherings that were happening

there in the Plaza of the Americas closer to the Reitz

Union. I do not think it ever really succeeded very well.









They just were not able to get them to move down there. I

think that is part of the problem. You have got to give

them sort of a feeling of enclosure you know.

K: Do you remember any of the gatherings on the Plaza? There

were political demonstrations there, I think. Do you

remember any of that?

L: Well, I remember one incident that I would like to forget.

I had done a drawing for a design for the walkways across

the Plaza of the Americas. I do not know if you have ever

looked closely at the British flag or not but it is two

crosses, St. Andrew's cross and somebody else's cross. That

same design is used a lot in formal gardens. What we were

trying to do was change the crosswalks just a little bit in

the Plaza of Americas so we could sort of formalize that

design, make it a little more symmetrical. We were working

toward that. That was after I was landscape designer and

landscape architect. My partner was out there with me and

we were trying to lay out those walks and the students

questioned what we were doing. I said well, we are getting

ready to build a stage here, we were not really, I should

not have told them that. Anyway, one of these activists on

campus heard about it and he got all up in arms about it and

started protesting something that we were not really going

to do. It was hard to get them to calm down. We were not

planning to build a stage in Plaza of the Americas. We did

not have the money to do it in the first place. As a result










they stopped the construction of the crosswalks that we

wanted to put in there.

K: People got very upset. It was all because of a joke?

L: Yes.

K: That is so interesting.

L: When I left the University they still had not carried out

that design. I did a drawing showing how it would look and

it would have been real nice to do that.

K: Were there plans to build a building on that space of the

Plaza?

L: No, I do not think so.

K: No, not really.

L: There was a lot of protest when they put Library West there.

K: There were rumors that they wanted to get rid of the whole

Plaza and just build another building on there.

L: I do not remember that, but I do remember when they did the

plans for Library West there was a faction that fought that

for awhile.

K: Was that students that were against it?

L: Oh yes, students, professors, all of them.

K: One of the things that interests me is how so many students

hang out there and gather there. I think they leave a lot

of dirt behind, they leave a lot of trash. I wonder how the

people that do the maintenance on campus, how do they feel

about the students? People who work on campus have to clean

after the students, have to plant new trees if they cut them

down, all of that. Students seem to not appreciate it.









L: They resign to it. These people figure that it is their job

to clean up behind students and take care of them. If they

did not mess up they might not have work. They might not

have a job cleaning up behind them. Over the years they

formed the Credit Union on the campus. Arthur Reitz was one

of the main stays in doing that. That was great. I thought

it was great because one of the problems that I had as

superintendent of the grounds was that our employees would

come in and want a loan. I did not have the authority to

give them a loan from the University pay. They would want

me to loan some money myself. As soon as they got the

Credit Union going good I could tell them no, you go to the

Credit Union that is what it is for. It is to give you

loans. The Credit Union was on campus quite a few years,

then they decided to build off campus and they did. They

asked me to do a landscape plan for it, which I did. I

helped to maintain it for awhile. I even got one of the

regular grounds employees to do that in his spare time.

Then the Campus Federal Credit Union grew so they decided to

build another building, a bigger building which they did on

Thirty-Fourth Street. I did the landscape plan for that.

The fellow that was maintaining the original credit union, I

think he got sick and finally he died I think, anyway I took

over the maintenance of that ground in my spare time. Then

they built this other one about the time I retired so I

maintained that in my spare time and started it and I have

continued to do that and the Campus Credit Union keeps









it. As a matter of fact, you came just awhile

ago. What I am is doing is working on plans for another

building the Credit Union has acquired is the old IBM

building. We are doing the relandscaping of that now. I

have got to get bids on irrigation system for it and some

more planning. That has kept me pretty busy at least one

day a week since I retired.

K: When did you retire?

L: I retired June 1, 1988 and I was sixty-two June the 9th.

Just a week before I was sixty-two years old.

K: That was in 1988. You said the last seven years you worked

in a different position when they finally got the landscape?

L: Yes, they had a new director of the physical plant and he

decided to separate the architectural design and landscaping

design. Well, he had already separated architectural

design, or had formed a group, I guess a department, to do

architectural design and he decided to take that away from

the grounds department, the landscape design and put it into

that same group.

K: Do you think that was a good move?

L: No, I did not agree with it but I said if that is what you

are going to do I want to be the campus landscape architect.

I was ready to give up the headaches involved in personal

problems with trying to keep the grounds department going.

It had all kinds of problems. The federal government got

involved. The Federal Wage and Hour Law gave us a time that

people would punch in and you had to have fifteen minute









breaks in the morning and afternoon. The things that the

federal government asked, or demanded we do, did not really

work very well with getting the grounds work done. It

chopped a big chunk of our man hours out when they did that.

Then along came the labor unions, they got involved. Their

demands took another chunk out of our production, man hours

and a lot of time. It got where I thought we were less and

less productive. I did not like all of those headaches

trying to get the job done. When I came here hardly anybody

in the grounds department made more than a dollar an hour.

Most of them made about ninety cents and hour. When we

would give them raised it would be a nickel an hour. I

would mull over that. I would usually get the budget saying

how much money we had to give somebody a raise or the whole

group a raise and I would go home and stay up most of the

night trying to figure our who got a nickel an hour raise.

Back in 1956, now inflation is carried away. I guess it is

more in line now with what other agencies are paying for

that type of work. I hope it is.

K: That means that you were already responsible for financial

problems and financial managing.

L: Yes, I had a budget you had to live by.

K: So that was all in your hands. Wow!

L: Yes, it was a million dollar budget. It is interesting that

I heard that soon after I left that department they

increased it to three million dollars a year.

K: That would have made the job easier.









L: That would have made the job much easier if I had had that

kind of money and if the personnel department had increased

the hourly wage more in line of what other agencies were

paying. Which I think that they did.

K: I guess planning a campus is very different from planning

any other kind of garden so were there priorities that you

had to keep in mind as you try to make changes? Safety or a

lot of people will need the space or that it should be

social like the Plaza?

L: You always have to keep in mind the health, safety and

welfare of the students. As a matter of fact one of the

things I try to do is let the campus itself be a teaching

resources. They talked for years about having an arboretum

on campus.

K: What is that?

L: That is where you have trees. A botanical garden. It

seemed to me the ideal place for it after they built the new

horticultural building in Fifield Hall was there behind

Fifield Hall but no horticultural was not willing to give up

the land that they were using for agronomic crops for an

arboretum. About the time I was trying to promote that an

arboretum on campus, Don Goodman began the

Botanical Gardens and that is probably the arboretum for

this area now. It is more of a county project. It is not

connected with the University. Anyway I said if we cannot

have a specific area for an arboretum we will just call the

whole campus an arboretum and we will try to plant as many









different species as we can throughout the campus wherever

they grow best, you know protect the specie. That is what

we did.

K: Really, I did not know that.





L: They tell me that that idea is kind of going by the wayside

now. They do not try to have that diversity. As a matter

of fact I made a list of the trees that we had on campus and

the trees that we ought to have on campus and then

distributed it to anybody that seemed to be interested in it

to try to get some help to do that. In the process we

introduced a lot of plants that are being used now and

people do not realize how they came about in this area. One

of the best examples is a Shoemard Oak, Quercus Shormardi.

When they built Newell Drive down the hillside to where the

Health Center was going to be, that was soon after I came

here I think back in 1956, or 1957, in the process of

building that road they but fill out on the shoulder of the

road and there was a large tree that it filled around and

the fill caused it to die. It was a pretty tree and I had

never had it identified before so I took specimens to the

arboretum to Dr. Erdman West and asked him to identify it.

What is this tree? He said that is Shoemard Oak. I said,

well why is there not more around? He said, well evidently

they grew tall and straight and made good lumber, firewood

or something. Anyway they were all cut. He even told me









that the tree likes a situation where there is calcarious

soil, that is a lot of lime in the soil. Oh, boy that might

solve a problem if we had some of these. As they built

parking lots and roadways back then they had a lime rock

base and allowed a lot of lime rock to spill out into the

shoulders. It caused conditions that a lot of plants just

would not grow in. I was looking for something as an

alternate to Oaks and Water Oaks which had been

planted a lot in that situation and had a very short life

span and very brittle. This Shoemard Oak was a deciduous

tree too. I thought that [it] would be nice to have a tree

that would allow in sunlight in the wintertime. I had a

student working with me at the time and I talked to him

about that. I said, boy it sure would be nice if we could

find some Shoemard Oak somewhere. This fellow liked to go

out scouting on weekends and he was pretty well off. He was

one of the few people back then that had an automobile. One

weekend he was up at Itchentuckny Springs and up there he

found what he thought was little saplings of Shoemard Oak.

He brought them back and we had it identified and yes, that

is what they were. We found out who owned that property at

the time and got permission to go up there and collect these

little sapling trees which were kind of ragged. They were

growing in among other young trees and we brought them back

and planted them in the parking lot at Perry Field where the

track is over there. We planted a few behind Jennings Hall.

That was close to where the original one was that died.









They grew. They grew fine. After they got bigger their

leaves would color up in the fall of the year people wanted

to know what is that tree with the pretty leaves. The

students that were studying horticulture so they began to

collect some of those students had graduated and gone into

the nursery business and they came back to the campus and

collected acorns of the Shoemard Oaks and started planting

them in their nurseries. Then people would visit the campus

and see them. I got requests from nurserymen around the

state, especially up around Tallahassee area to collect

acorns and send them. Which I did. I would go over the

Jennings Hall and those trees and the ones in Perry Field

along with nurserymen and get bushels of acorns and send to

these nurseries. They would pay me a little bit for them.

That way we got Shoemard Oaks reestablished in this part,

they are everywhere now. There are Oaks that are all along

Archer Road there by Shands and that is what they are.

Another plant that has become real popular and we had it on

campus for years and people did not seem to catch on to it

until just a few years ago was Asian Jasmine. We were on a

list Nurseries in and we were on a

plant introduction list in Beltsville, Maryland was the

plant introduction station where they bring in new plants

and distribute them from there. It was a professor in

agriculture that was supposed to supervise that because this

is part of the anyway. He got me on the list to

try out new things. One of the things that we tried out was









Asian Jasmine. We planted it in the planter at the physics

building and it did fine, but no body noticed it. No body

seemed to be interested in it. They thought it was

something else. I think they thought it was Asian Jasmine

extracts from Asianticanm and the Confederate Jasmine

Jasmine They thought it was a

regular Confederate Jasmine. Then years later when the

Museum was built we planted it on the embankments of the

inside of the Museum. On the front of the Museum on those

embankments. I was glad to do that because grass was too

hard to maintain. It really caught on in this area then.

They have been planting it everywhere.

K: You say people did not notice. Did you usually get

reactions from people when they saw new plants?

L: Well, I could tell that people notice if they asked me what

that was and if they could have some of it to plant. If

they could get a cutting from that.

K: Did that happen regularly?

L: Yes, it happened a lot. Some people abused that privilege

of getting cuttings from the campus so eventually we had to

stop letting them do that. There was one fellow in

particular, a nurseryman from South Florida, that had a

contract to plant a lot of Jasmine Primrose

Jasmines on the embankments of the interstate interchanges.

Without permission he came and he just mutilated the

Primrose Jasmine we had on campus to get cuttings to

propagate for the Road Department. That is when we had to










tell the police if they saw anybody doing it to stop them.

Another plant that I for year I have been getting seeds from

the American Horticultural Society and at one time I got

some which is a Chinese Fringe Tree. There

is one growing right down there it is just finishing

blooming. If you go over to the Credit Union, do you know

where the campus Credit Union is? Your Campus Federal

Credit Union is?

K: No.

L: It is the corner of South West Thirty-Fourth Street and

Twentieth Avenue. Well along the north of that property

there is a whole row of Chinese Fringe trees. They are

blooming now, just finishing blooming, it still has some

flowers. I grew those in my yard, got them started. [I] did

not know what to do with them, so I after I got them started

I took them to Nursery and gave them to Monroe

and I said grow these on in pots for awhile.

Later we planted them at the Reitz Union down by the pond.

K: That is a very pretty pond down there. When my parents

visited campus that is the spot they liked the best down

there by the Reitz Union.

L: They grew there and as they matured and started blooming a

lot I told Nurseman about it. I said, this is a plant you

ought to grow, but they did not seem to be interested until

they saw them blooming there. Then they got real interested

and they collected the seed and cut the cuttings. They grow

easily from seeds or cuttings. Now that plant has caught on









when it was very popular around here. Where did you learn

to speak English so well?

K: We have English in school from age eight on.

L: You do not have much accent at all.

K: I have been here for a year.

L: Have you? You learned to speak like Florida crackers,

right?

K: I try to.

L: You do very well.

K: You mentioned students of landscape architecture were they

in touch with your division? Were they interested in what

is going on campus? Did they learn on campus?

L: I hope so, yes.

K: Was there an exchange between you?

L: Oh, yes, I was in pretty close touch with the professors in

landscape architecture.

K: Did you ever think about teaching?

L: No, no I would not be interested in teaching it at all. No

more than the little bit that I was involved in. I was more

involved with the garden clubs here in Gainesville. As a

matter of fact, I am an honorary member of the Gainesville

Garden Club. We had short courses that I would participate

in the Garden Club and women.

K: That is one question I wanted to ask you. Do you have a,

how do you call it a CV? Like where you hold life and all

of your honors and everything ? I do not know the

English word for it.










L: Yes.

K: Do you have something like that?

L: Yes a resume.

K: Resume, exactly. That I could maybe have a copy of?

L: I think I may have one in my file. See down there? See

those white things leaning against the tree?

K: Uh-huh.

L: Do you know what they are?

K: Bicycle racks?

L: Yes, well that is my invention.

K: Really.

L: Yes, that was interesting the way that happened, this is

many years ago about twenty years ago. Two of the campus

policemen came to see me and said we have a problem. I

said, what is it. They said that people are stealing

bicycles and the students do not have a good way to lock the

bicycles. They said, come with me and they wanted to take

me over to Anderson Hall and show me what they were talking

about. We got over there and every sign post and trees in

that area had a bicycle locked to it. They said what we

need is a post with a top that they can put their chain

around or lock around and they cannot lift it over the top

and steal a bike. Back then bicycle theft was a real

problem. They said,can you come up with an idea to keep

them from stealing it. I got to thinking about it and did

some drawings of how we might do a post that has a loop or a

top in it so they could lock it, especially with the









horseshoe locks you know. Lock it to the post and then they

could not slip it over the top. I came up first with a very

complicated idea, we were going to put a little roof over

the whole thing, the whole nine yards. Then I developed all

kinds of configurations of bicycle, basically the inverted U

but they were different. You probably have seen them, what

we call an H-configuration and a Anyway I

tried to sell this idea to the Director of the Physical

Plant. Well he was not interested in it at first. I was

doing a little landscape job on the side for a lady that

owned Joe's Deli. Do you know where that is?

K: Yes.

L: I think the city wanted her to put in some bicycle racks.

So I designed a bicycle rack for here parking lot there. It

is gone now.

K: Like those?

L: No, it was not quite like those. You had a cross-pipe that

connected them. The cars kept hitting it though, trying to

get in that little parking lot, so later they took it out.

Then the people over in the College of Law saw that and they

wanted something like that there. Through the campus I got

a chance to put some over there. About that time the City

of Gainesville hired a bicycle coordinator, a lady named

Mary Anne Knuth. She had seen what I had done. She was a

student I think at the time. She came to me and said she

had been hired by the City and she wanted some for the City.









So I began to make some myself for the City. Actually for

awhile I installed them all around.

K: You were making them yourself?

L: Yes. I do not know if you have ever been to the Gainesville

Shopping Center up on North Main Street but I made and

installed those up there. They were the multiple-T type.

If you look down at the top of it there is a whole series

like this and the bicycles go in there.

K: Yes, I have locked my bike in there.

L: They have a cross bar across the back. One reason I did

that, that made it a little more stable because this type

you had to really anchor it good, but that you did not have

to anchor it that well. After I left the University there

was a superintendent of grounds he had tried to come up with

a design of his own. He did and he spent a lot of money

developing one that really did not work. On University

projects there were contractors and the contractors got me

to make the bicycle racks that they were supposed to install

at the new buildings. I made quite a few and sold to those

contractors and they in turn installed some at the Reitz

Union and some of them were out by the Plaza of Americas.

Then the University put out for bids. I had done the

drawings and I had left them over there in the files at the

Physical Plant for these bicycle racks. They put out bids

for bicycle racks they did not notify me and they started.

So they distributed drawings around to people to bid on and

some other people started making them and selling them to










the University. I did not even get a chance to sell any to

the University. Later I protested that. I told them it is

my idea, and you should have let me bid on it. But through

contractors I have been able to sell quite a few over there

and I have sold them all over, a lot of them in the City of

Gainesville. Some of them went to Texas A & M, University

of Alabama, University of Mississippi, and some of them up

at Ohio at the University. I sold them to the Florida Parks

Department, all around the state. I sold a lot the them

over the years.

K: Before that there were no bicycle racks in the City?

L: Well they used the old style of it. We had problems with

that too. We had gotten an idea about some concrete blocks

that they make slots and I do not know whether there was any

left on the campus or not, because you wheel up into the

slot.

K: Yes, yes.

L: Well, these bicycles that had the real narrow wheels if

somebody would push just gently sideways on that bicycle in

that slot then it would bend the wheel. So yes, we had

problems with that. The old style of bicycle rack went out

of style because of those thin wheel bicycles. It was so

easy to bend the wheel. Let me see if I can find a resume.

In the mean time you can look at those books if you want

to.

K: Oh, okay thank-you.

L: Yes, I found something.









K: Oh, thank-you.

L: I have got it on my computer so I can run some more copies.

K: I see there is a whole bunch of newspaper articles have you

interviewed about your work?

L: Yes, over the years. One paper that I especially liked and

it was many years ago. It was the Alligator, Professor Hugh

Cunningham took his class and gave them a project and they

called it Campus Beautiful. That was real nice because the

Alligator back then and I guess still does seemed to thrive

on sensationalism and they never mentioned anything very

positive. But that was different than most of the [articles

the Alligator wrote.] It was kind of nice.

see he is retired now too.

K: What is his name?

L: Professor Hugh Cunningham, he was a professor of Journalism.

He remembers that too. He thought it turned out real good.

It was different from what the Alligator had been printing,

publishing.

K: That was real interesting. It seems like so many changes on

campus started right there in your head with new ideas and

stuff. That is really great.

L: Well people will come visit a campus. I remember the

landscape architect for Disney World came and visited with

me. I think he offered me a job as a matter of fact. I was

tempted. I went down there and they rolled out the royal

carpet for me and showed me around and tried to sell me on

going to work for them. Maybe I should have.









K: That is one question I wanted to ask you. Did you ever

think about leaving the UF?

L: Well I did for awhile but when I did I went to the wrong

outfit and it went bankrupt and had to come back. I left

for a year, no it was not a year, just a few months to go up

to the Island Plantation. They went bankrupt and

so I saw the handwriting on the wall and I left and came

back and got my old job back here at the University. Then I

had another offer at that same time to go to Sea Islands,

Georgia to take charge of the grounds there. When I turned

that down my counterpart at the University of Georgia, he

got that job and he has been there ever since. That would

have been a nice one too. They did not go bankrupt, they

strived in Sea Islands, Georgia. But for me I do not know,

I got good connections and I continued to go up there and

work in my spare time as a consultant. Have you ever been

there?

K: No.

L: Well Island is in Florida, but it is at the very

northeast corner of Florida above Jacksonville and the south

end of the island was bought by a development company and it

developed it. It is real nice. As a matter of fact, the

Florida Chapter of the American Society of Landscape

Architecture is going to have their meeting there I think in

June or July.

K: Are you going?









L: I do not know. They called me and wanted to know if I would

conduct a tour, but in the past year I have only been there

one time I think. Last time I was there was along about

last fall, so I do not go up there very much anymore. It is

a long way up there. It is about two hundred miles. They

did not ask for me very much anymore and I was not

particularly interested in going that far.

K: Did you like living in Gainesville?

L: Oh, yes.

K: Moving somewhere else would mean that your whole family

would have to move.

L: Yes, see we have only lived here at this house for not quite

four years yet. All of the time that I worked at the

University I lived up close to the campus right over there

on Tenth Street, right in the sorority area. Do you know

where the sorority houses are?

K: Yes, I think so.

L: Right across the street from Kappa Alpha Theta Sorority

house. As a matter of fact, when we built that house we

lived in there, that whole block there where Kappa Alpha

Theta is was vacant. So it shows how that has grown too. I

think Gainesville when it was voted number one city in the

country, think that is it. That is about right. I think it

is because look around. We go to Jacksonville and we have

to go fairly often to check on my mother up there, she lives

up there by herself, I surely would not want to live in

Jacksonville. It is kind of dirty compared to Gainesville.









K: You sure have a beautiful spot here. The lake outside.

L: There are several reasons why we chose this place. I wanted

to move away from the sorority area because it is so noisy

over there you know.

K: I bet.

L: Another thing that my wife liked it because it is well lit.

The lights galore at night the whole place is lit up like

daylight to protect the sorority girls. All of that

commotion, after I did not have any connection with the

University anymore I thought well we need to get away from

that. Anyway, my daughter lives right next door here. Our

grandson was born about the same time we bought this place.

In the place that we built there on Tenth Street, we built

a duplex and we lived there for a while. Then we built a

house next door to that. My wife had found out living in a

duplex that had concrete slab on the ground, like most

houses do now a days in this part of the world, then the

house we built had wooden floors upstairs.

Her legs hurt her as long as she had to walk on the concrete

floor. When we moved to the other house, we had wooden

floors and it was obvious that this house had to have wooden

floors. It is high up off the ground. We found out the

lady lived here by herself and wanted to sell it and move

away. We bought it and paid too much for it I guess but

considered I can see my grandson everyday I do not think

that is too bad and close to my daughter. Our son lives

about as far away as you can get. He lives in California










now. He is an exercise buff. You know Arnold

Schartzenager?

K: He is from Austria.

L: That is one of my son's ideas. He knows him personally

actually.

K: Really?

L: Yes.

K: How old are your children?

L: Let us see, I have to think about that now. My son was born

in 1960 that makes him about thirty-six, he will be thirty-

six years old this year and our daughter is two years older.

She is thirty-eight, or she will be thirty-eight in May.

K: So your children went to UF too?



L: No, it is interesting that we live real close to P.K. Yong

Laboratory School and we were lucky enough to get them into

that school. They could walk over there easily. It was

only a few blocks away. When my wife and I were growing up

we were going to school during the war and they were

rationing everything, gasoline and everything. We had a

long way to go to get to school and a hard time getting

there. We were determined that our kids were going to have

it easier. That is why we stayed right there where we were

so they could go to P.K. Yong. My daughter went to P.K.

Yong then she went on the Santa Fe Community College. She

liked Santa Fe a lot. She stayed there as long as she could

then she went to the University and got a degree in









psychology. Now she has a pretty good job doing that. Our

son wanted to go out of state so he went up to Mercer at

Macon, Georgia. He had already gotten interested in

exercise because he had a part time job with Gainesville

Health and Fitness. As a matter of fact he would go over

there at night and clean up. Then he someway got him

permission to go use the weight room there on campus. So he

got to know those guys that lifted weights. He went up to

Mercer and he asked them about it, do you not have an

exercise room? No. So he proceeded to set up one for them.

He spent more time doing that then he did studying, so he

flunked out there. He went on the work and I forgot what

kind of job he had, a sales job of some kind. He kind of

liked sales I guess but he realized he needed to get a

degree. He came back to live with Marian's dad in

Jacksonville and he went to Jonah's College there in

Jacksonville and got a degree in business marketing. Then

he went and worked for Nautilus Exercise Equipment. Later

he worked for Arthur Jones who is the inventor of Nautilus

but had sold it to somebody else. I do not know, all of a

sudden he decided that he did not like working for Arthur

Jones. The nice thing about that was it was down in Ocala,

so he was close to home. He went to work for some outfit

out in California and that did not pan out after a year or

so, so he went to work for Cybex in New York which is

supposed to be the biggest exercise equipment and medical

equipment in the company now. He worked right there in New









York City a lot around Manhattan for about four or five

years and made a lot of money, boy and spent a lot of money

too. Like big corporations do, they divided his territory

and he did not like what they had done so they said we will

let you have Northern California. Well he had been there

before and he knew that the weather was better out there

than it was in New York so that is what he did. He has gone

to California now. He lives in Walnut Creek near San

Francisco. He has never gotten married. He has had

girlfriends galore, but he has never got married.

K: Thank you for telling me. Shall we look at some of these.

I am very curious about the newspaper articles.

L: Go ahead, help yourself. Here is that.

K: Ah, the Alligator.

L: This was the one that Hugh Cunningham was in charge of that

particular issue.

[Looking at newspaper articles]

L: See here was the graduation June 1950. There

is my name right at the bottom of the page.

K: Oh, yes. With high honors.

L: In landscape architecture. Then the year later I graduated

with honors in agriculture. I look at that and see who my

old classmates were. It was interesting that we had in the

landscape class was so small back then that our professor

also taught interior design. There were only as I remember

two girls in that class and they graduated I think the same

time I did. They were both veterans. They had both went in










the military. One of the things that they did was when they

graduated, each one of them gave me one of these little

things, see a little memento.

K: Yes.

L: It might be made in Austria too because I have seen other

things like that at over there.

K: We still have them.

L: Do you?

K: Do you still have those?

L: Yes, I still have them yes. Look through these. We took a

tour of Europe about two or three years ago and we went into

the edge of the Black Forest.

K: That is beautiful. I have been there once.

L: That is about as close to Austria as I guess we will ever

get. We bought a coo-coo clock there, made there.

K: Tell me, if you had an idea of something that you wanted to

do on campus did you have to ask somebody or was it up to

you to make.

L: That is what was interesting. When I first went there they

kind of had free run. I could do what I wanted to pretty

much. That is what made the job so interesting in the

beginning. Later as it grew they brought in people over me.

These people were supposed to be my boss, but they did not

know beans about what I was doing. All they did was

interfere in what we were trying to get done.

K: That must be so aggravating.









L: It was. The bosses that I have had, see I could not go

directly to him anymore I had to go through these others and

he could not understand what the problem. I do not know

whether he ever did or not, but it got frustrating to have

to go through these people. These people actually kind of

harassed me more than they did any good. I was not able to

accomplish the things that I had been doing. That was

another reason I was kind of anxious to give up

superintendent of grounds job and be the campus landscape

architect. I did not have to worry with the people and I

could do the designs and they could take them and use them

if they wanted to. That was up to them.

K: There are so many articles with your picture and your name

and they quote you.

L: Yes, my wife has done a good job of that. Every time they

print my name anywhere she would grab it and cut it out.

K: I am wondering if there is anything more that I could ask

about the Plaza. I have only been on campus for a year so

older students usually know stories about Halloween parties,

but for me the Plaza has always been like I have seen it.

You probably know more how it has changed, you know?

L: Well, one change that has happened that I do not like, I

mean nobody I guess likes it, is there were big pines. I

guess there are a few of them left. Those long leaf pine.

They are called Virgin Long Leaf Pine because they were

original ones here. Nobody knows exactly how old they are.

Pretty sure they are a 100 years old or more. Over the










years they have died. Usually from being struck by

lightning because they are the tallest element around there.

They sort of stand by themselves out there in the Plaza of

the Americas. I remember one day we had a storm and

lightning struck two of them. There were two pines fairly

close together about five, six feet apart and the lightning

ricochet off one to the other as it came to the ground. It

killed both of them. We tried to save them. We sprayed

them with insecticide to try to keep the insects

out of them, but they were gone.

K: Oh, no. Did they set on fire or no?

L: Well there was one time that one exploded just after being

hit by lightning. There was some pavement around it and it

just blew the pavement all up too. That is kind of scary.

K: That was on the Plaza, so those trees are gone from there

now.

L: Well I think there may be a few, but not very many, not like

there was when I came here to the University. There is one

there, I hope it is still there, between Flint Hall and the

Chemistry Building that we had a dedication ceremony as the

bicentennial tree when the country was 200 years old. That

was 1976. We decide to dedicate that tree as the

bicentennial tree.

K: Where is that again?

L: It is just south of Flint Hall. Between Flint Hall and the

Chemistry Building. We had a tree outfit but a lightning










arrestor in that. There are several trees on campus that

have lightning arrestor in them.

K: Really?

L: Yes. We put a rod of copper wire all the way to the top.

K: So it does not go in the tree.

L: So it goes down the wire instead of in the tree, yes.

K: That is the way to prevent this. I live in the Duckpond

area.

L: You live there now?

K: Yes, that is a very nice area.

L: Yes, is it not. I am on the Gainesville Tree Advisory Board

and the people in the Duckpond area have been very

interested in what we do on the Tree Advisory Board. The

City of Gainesville is having problems with the street trees

over in that neighborhood. The trees are getting old and

declining and the people hate to see them come out and

anytime one is taken out they protest it. We have to go and

try to calm them down and tell them what we really need to

be doing over there is planting some new trees to take the

place of these trees that are beginning to die out. I think

they are going along with that alright. You may have

noticed though that there is a big pine tree that I think

was struck by lightning, died anyway and instead of taking

it all the way out they just took the top out and left the

main trunk. Do you know that one?

K: No.










L: It is right on that park, right about the middle of the

Duckpond Park area.

K: People are very protective of their trees, that is right.

L: How did you happen to live over there? That is a little bit

unusual for a student to live in there.

K: To Duckpond?

L: Yes.

K: Because when I moved here my friends lived there in a house

and then right down the street I rented a house too. I bike

to school it really is not that far. It is beautiful to

live there. It is quiet, I like that.

L: Here was something that was probably since I retired. Let

me see, no. Yes, this is since I retired. That was in the

Gainesville Sun.

K: Ah, that is one of the oaks.

L: Yes, that is a Shoemard Oak. Now I was telling them the

same story I told you. Oh, do you know about the moon tree

on campus? Here is an article about that.

K: No.

L: Well they took some tree seed all the way to the moon and

back and the distributed the seed around. They gave some to

the Forrest Department here at the University of Florida and

some other university, I think the University of Mississippi

State. The forestry people planted them and they grew and

after awhile they gave us a couple of pine trees and a

sycamore that they had grown from those seeds. We planted

them near the forestry building. The forestry building was









new then. The pine trees were immediately girdled by some

of our grounds maintenance people with weed-eaters, you know

those string trimmers, but the sycamore survived. It is

right there at the corner of Museum Road and McCarty Drive

at the northeast corner of that intersection. This was

taken several years ago. We kept it a secret that that is

what it was. We did not tell anybody. Finally, the word

got out to one of the professors who claimed to be a big

proponent of trees and out that that was the moon

tree. But by then it was big enough that nobody could pull

it up. That is what we were afraid of, that somebody would

pull it out of the ground.

K: Was that a big problem, people just stealing plants?

L: Yes, there was quite a problem when I was there with people

stealing plants. I will never forget we had planted the

courtyard of the Music Building and the police told me about

this. They saw some ladies walking down Stadium Road, going

off campus and one of the ladies had both hands full of

plants. So they stopped them and asked them where they got

that and they told them they got them out of the courtyard

of the Music building. They took them and called us and

told them that they had some plants that had been pulled up

and we went and looked and sure enough. I could never

understand why they would take those particular plants.

They were thorny. I do not know how they could hold on to

them. We used to have problems to, we would plant trees

like we planted pine trees. The pine trees would get up









about fifteen, twenty feet high but they would still be

fairly small caliber. Younger kids would come on campus and

climb those pine trees and ride them down. The pine trees

stayed bent over that way. It would ruin the tree.

K: So many problems you had to deal with.

L: Here was an article it was published in a magazine. I do

not see a date on here but it was a few years ago. This was

one of the things I believed in doing that my successors did

not and that was to kill the weeds around trees with

chemical round-up so there would not be any point in anybody

using the string trimmers to try to trim around the trees to

trim the grass. The guy that took my place he did not

believe in chemical edging so he used weedeaters and boy his

people girdled. They killed trees as fast as they could

plant them. I never could understand that, how you could

get by on so many trees.

K: The chemical edging does not harm the tree?

L: No, the ground up or glasacate I used to tell people that

was a God-send. That was just what we needed to help us in

grounds maintenance because we did not have enough man power

to maintain it like we wanted to. It kills only what you

get the chemical on a green leaf. If the stem of the tree

is still green, you do not want to get it on the trunk, but

if it is old enough that the bark has turned brown you can

get it on the trunk of the tree and it would not hurt it.

Of course, you do not want to have to do that too often, but










once a year is probably enough anyway to keep the grass and

the weeds away.

K: That is funny because you do not even fight the weed, you

fight the people who cut the weed.

L: That is your own people that .That used to

happen so much, that was so frustrating. We would plant

native plants on campus to try to establish some native

plants. Because they were native these people that we had

to hire to do the work thought they were weeds and they

would get rid of them as they went through the campus

maintaining the grounds. I would go plant the plants and go

put a stake by them to mark them and take the fellow that

was in charge and show him we planted these would you please

do not. He would forget to tell his people and the people

he supervised would go through and cut them off or pull them

out.

K: That is frustrating.

L: But we kept trying. Well when I round up my pictures, my

colored slides mostly, should I get in touch with Dr.

Proctor?

K: Yes, that would be the best.

L: I do not know him but he and Ralph Lowenstein I think are

good friends. Do you know Lowenstein in Journalism?

K: No.

L: He was director of the College of Journalism.

K: Would you like me to write down his phone number for you?










L: That is alright, I will look it up. I will need a little

time to go through them and figure. Some of those slides

that I have I used to be called on fairly often to give a

talk about the growth of the campus landscape.

K: Talk to who?

L: To groups like students in landscape architecture and garden

club groups. I think I still got some of those in the order

that I showed them way back then.

K: Okay, we are done. One last thing, this is a release form.

What is going to happen is the History Department will type

up the interview and they will send you a copy. This is

that you agreed that the text will be in the Archives after

you have checked it.

L: After I have checked it.

K: Yes.

L: Okay, that is a good point. When will you get your degree?

K: Probably in two years.

L: What will it be in?

K: Linguistics, Languages.

L: Oh, good, good. You will be good for that. How many

languages can you speak?

K: Six.

L: Really?

K: Yes.

L: My goodness.

K: Thank-you so much.

L: I know you speak English real good but..










K: German, Spanish, and I learned French. I have been studying

[END OF TAPE A]




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