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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida
Interviewer: Marna R. Weston
Interviewee: Brian Burton
UF 278A
W:This is Friday, March 24, 1995. [It is] a beautiful, sunny
day. This interview is taking place in the conference room
on the fourth floor of Little Hall. It is a library setting
with a large rectangular conference table. A large open
window faces the Fine Arts College with trees, a beautiful
blue sky, and sunshine outside. The interviewer today is
Marna Weston, and the interviewee is Brian Burton. The
purpose of this interview is to provide historical
background for the Oral History Library at the University of
Florida. Brian, thank you very much for participating in
the interview today.
B:Thank you Marna.
W:Why do we not start out with some basic information. [Give me]
your full name and spell it. If you have a middle initial
in your name, explain what that stands for.
B:My full name is Brian George Burton.
W:Are either of those family names?
B:George is my father's middle name. That is where the George
comes from. I am not a junior.
W:What were your studies here at the University of Florida?
B:My current studies here at the University of Florida are
engineering. My past studies include receiving a degree
from the College of Agriculture under the curriculum of food
resource economics.
W:What year was that?
B:That was 1993 in August.
W:Are you anticipating another bachelors or a graduate degree
this time?
B:I am anticipating another bachelors in industrial engineering.
W:Do you have any brothers or sisters?
B:I have one sister, Bridget Burton, who is a student, and is
twenty-one years old.
W:Is she a student here at the University of Florida?
B:No.
W:At another institution?
B:Exactly.
W:How about your mom and dad? What are their names?
B:My mom's name is Molly May Burton.
W:What is her maiden name?
B:Her maiden name is Simpson.
W:Molly May Simpson Burton. And where is she from?
B:Her original home is Jamaica.
W:How about your dad?
B:My dad's full name is Junor Alexander George Burton.
W:Where is he from?
B:He is from Jamaica.
W:What brought your family to Florida?
B:My parents left Jamaica in 1968 and moved to New York. After
moving to New York in 1968, I was born in 1970, December 17,
1970. In 1977, on January 5, my father died. After that
experience, my decided that in order to raise two children
on her own, she would have to leave the city of New York.
That is what brought me to Ocala, Florida.
W:I am sure your father's death was a very traumatic experience.
In fact, we have never talked about that before.
B:Yes it was.
W:Was that something that was natural? Was it an accident?
B:It was natural. [He had] thyroid difficulties.
W:So your mom brought you and your sister to Ocala. Did you
attend different types of schools in Ocala?
B:Yes, I attended Belleview Santos. After that, I went to Lake
Weir Middle School.
W:Lake Weir had a good football team. They won the state
championship a few years ago.
B:Lake Worth?
W:No, Lake Weir.
B:I am unaware of this event.
W:Well, you have got to keep up with the history there.
[Laughter].
B:Then I attended Lake Weir High School, where I graduated second
in my class as salutatorian in 1988.
W:So what brought you to the University of Florida? You could
have gone anywhere. Why did you come here as salutatorian
of your high school?
B:I came to the University of Florida simply because it was close
to my family. I am a very family oriented individual,
family meaning biological family and friends. I am a close-
knit type person. In addition, the University of Florida
offered me more than any other University inside of Florida.
W:Do you mean in terms of financial resources or institutional
resources?
B:Financial resources and institutional resources. I guess you
could say the whole package fit for the University of
Florida.
W:So when you thought University of Florida, you were like this
is it.
B:Correct.
W:Your plans were to come here and get a degree in engineering?
B:Correct.
W:What year did you start here at the University of Florida?
B:I started here at the University of Florida in the fall
semester of 1988.
W:You have seen a lot of changes.
B:I have seen tremendous changes.
W:Why do you not tell me about some of the organizations you are
involved in.
B:I was involved in the NAACP. I was involved in BSU. I was
involved in the North Star Leadership Council.
W:And you were founding member of that organization. Tell us a
little bit more about the North Star Leadership Council.
What is that all about?
B:The North Star Leadership Council is about student development.
It is about people development. What we entail in North
Star and what we demand in people is motivation to
accomplish something positive. We feel that if you can find
a person with motivation and a person with a goal in mind,
we can help nurture this person to accomplish their dreams.
W:What about BSU and the NAACP--the Gator chapter, correct?
B:The Gator chapter.
W:Did you hold any organizational leadership positions in those
groups?
B:I was treasurer of the NAACP, and organizational liaison in
BSU.
W:What year did those organizational leaderships take place?
B:Sometime in 1989 or 1990.
W:Now you are also a brother of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity.
B:Correct.
W:Now how did you choose getting involved in organizations? What
is Kappa Alpha Psi and how did you choose to get involved?
B:Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity Incorporated is a fraternity geared
to the fundamental purpose of Kappa Alpha Psi achievement.
That is the reason I chose that organization above the other
fraternities on campus. It was founded on a white
university. It was the first black fraternity to be here at
the University of Florida in 1972. At the time of me coming
to the school, they were the ones involved in a lot of
things. They were the ones promoting achievement in every
sense of the word. I was attracted to it. That is how I
became affiliated with the organization.
W:How do you feel that being affiliated with these different
organizations, Kappa Alpha Psi, founding member of North
Star, Gator NAACP, and BSU has prepared you to deal with the
environment of a predominantly white university in North
Central Florida?
B:These organizations have taught me the ropes of dealing with
people, human communications, and human relations. By being
in these organizations, I learned certain...I am looking for
a word. Marna can you help me?
W:Methods of operation?
B:I learned certain skills necessary to dealing with people. It
is not a black thing. It is not a white thing. It is a
human thing. Being able to communicate amongst your peers
is a great asset. By being in these organizations, it
taught me or showed me a way of carrying myself in order to
do bigger and better things without going through the
anguish of messing up the first time somewhere else.
W:You have an interesting perspective when you say it is not a
black thing, it is not a white thing, it is a people thing.
Yet, there are many people who feel that the University of
Florida, because it is predominantly white, has engendered a
certain response from black students in particular and
minority students in general. Do you have any experiences
as a student at the University of Florida where it was
obvious to you that you were black and you were being
treated that way? How did you respond to it? How were you
prepared for that type of confrontation, if it was a
confrontation?
B:I can recall two experiences my freshman year in which I
personally saw a mindset amongst white students. For
instance, when I first came to the University and I lived in
Broward Hall (Broward East on the third floor), I was
socializing with different fellow students on the floor.
This one particular individual, who is from California, was
in my room talking. The first thing out of his mouth was
how do I feel being the only black person on the floor.
From what I gather, I do not think he meant anything from
it, knowing his personality. To be able to think in that
mindset and to actually ask me that question shows me that
he was in some mindset that was somewhat discriminatory.
W:So you felt because he was asking you that question..
B:I felt it was unnecessary to ask me that question. He asked me
that question. Being as how I was a new student, I was kind
of slapped like this must be the real world. Of course I
have experienced some racial encounters in high school, but
really in middle school. I had to tell this individual that
I was brought up under a Jamaican heritage. In Jamaica, it
is not a color issue. It is a class issue. It is a wealth
issue. My mother has never brought me up thinking that
people are going to make their decisions based on my color.
She has always brought me up to accomplish and others will
seek you out. That is how I lived my earlier days of
accomplishing of doing this or that, whether it was solo or
within a group. I tried to instill in him to let him know
that I went to a white school. I was one of the few blacks
in most of my classes. It was in a sense no different for
me as far as assimilating here at the University. That is
basically let him know that because of my heritage, I have
never really thought about what it meant to be different.
Being different sets you apart from the rest. Being unique
is a characteristic that more of us should try to foster--
unique in a positive sense.
W:So you think that this perception of looking at people based
upon color is something more endemic to the United States or
Florida than Jamaica where your family is from?
B:Correct. I understand that people have stereotypes and people
places stereotypes on other people. Even though you place
stereotypes on another person, if you meet somebody who does
not fit that stereotype exactly, the first thing you do is
say that is a different type of person. You can use the
example of the organization, Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity.
Many people try to stereotype you as a Kappa. After that,
they begin to know you and say, "Oh he is a Kappa, but a
different type of Kappa." Just by doing that, you are in a
different category of a stereotype. My philosophy is if
someone is going to stereotype, then they are going to
stereotype me for exactly who I am. They are going to
redefine the stereotype consistently and constantly. I will
have no problems with promoting that stereotype because that
stereotype is me.
W:There are many fraternities to get involved in on campus. Did
you consciously chose to be involved in a black fraternity,
and if so why?
B:I consciously chose to be affiliated with a black fraternity on
the basis of nurturing my traditions and roots. Being that
I had been brought up as basically the only black in the
class, it is kind of a place to come home to if you want to
call it that. Everyone has their different religions,
creed, etc. I acknowledge the fact that I am a black man.
I have no problems with standing up for that. I guess you
could say that I wanted to be affiliated with other black
men and women who has aspirations such as mine.
W:Do you feel that on a campus like the University of Florida
which is so big that it is important to have a base to come
home to as you said?
B:Exactly. To have a base or foundation in which you can grow
and work through trial and error to perfect yourself before
you go out and deal with other people.
W:How would you describe the University of Florida in terms of
the race issue? In your own words, what did you experience
as a student? How would you sum it up if you had to put it
in a few sentences or a paragraph? What is it that strike
you about the University of Florida?
B:Watching the University of Florida grow, I have noticed the
strong connection between college athletics and the overall
morale of the community. In that respect, I see that it is
necessary to have something to hold on to. Many students
come here lost. Many students come here not sure of what
they want to do. I believe if the University continues on
the trends of trying to develop the student in many aspects
of life, not just academic bookwork, that the University
will create a student whose limits are endless. I also
believe that under the reign of Dr. Lombardi [Dr. John
Lombardi, president, University of Florida, 1990-present],
changes here at the University have been somewhat expedient
as opposed to if we had a different president of the
University.
W:When you say expedient it reminds me of a quote by Henry Moore
Beehcer that "expediency is for the hour, but principles are
for the ages." Do you believe that the University of
Florida has placed expediency over principle or would you
characterize things in a different way?
B:Dr. Lombardi has worked at an expedient pace to bring the
University up to modern times, but not sacrificing any
principles. I believe the principles are intact, and the
vision is there. In these changing times that we are in, we
have no choice but to work efficiently and effectively as
soon as possible to be able to be on top in the future.
W:As a student leader on campus during the late 1980s and early
1990s, the BAM incident comes to mind as a significant
event. What was your perception of what was going on?
First of all, if you could describe, to the extent of your
knowledge, what BAM was and what went on. Then explain how
you felt about it.
B:I felt that BAM was an event that occurred because of the
student leadership here at the University of Florida. It
was not an administrative thing. Administration sets their
policies and their goals for the betterment of the whole
University, and to keep a good image with the world. From a
student's perspective, dealing with students, we have many
students here that do not believe that all men are equal.
We have students here who have power within their respective
organizations who feel that if they were to help someone
else, they would lose their power. Now we all know the
reality of the real world, and we all know that people in
the real world who cause controversy points at the college.
Therefore, what we see going on with the Black Awareness
Movement is a situation which has happened on a national
scale, and could happen on a global scale.
W:So that was December 1991?
B:Correct.
W:And at the same time, there was a parallel of that taking place
on the campus of the University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill, where some of the black athletes there felt that black
students on campus were being denied adequate access to
resources. They were threatening to boycott participating
in sporting events. I know you were not a student athlete
here per se, but you knew people of course. What was the
perception of the student athlete on the University of
Florida campus about the Black Awareness Movement?
B:That comes down to a point of being student athletes. They are
praised when they are doing good, and criticized when they
are doing bad. Student athletes (I cannot speak for each
individual) that I know and have conversed with believe in
the betterment of the people. Now you bring administration
into it. Now you bring the coaching staff into it. Because
of the political dilemmas that can happen and political
transactions that can take place, their hands are tied.
Their hands are tied. I would think that the University
would take it upon themselves to make sure that the athletes
are happy as far as academically being able to better
themselves in a professional sense other than sports and
culturally. Athletes are unable to experience their
culture. They are unable to hang out, for lack of a better
term, with their people. They are unable to go back and
nurture or help their people because of their athletic
affiliation. They are catered to, just like the top 10
percent are catered to. They are not catered to in all
different aspects.
Technology is here. We can make things faster. We can do things
faster. We need less people to do things, and so on. The
future is human resources. The future is a well conditioned
individual just like a well conditioned athlete. For
instance, if you want to assimilate into sports, do cross
training. Cross training is being able to do many different
things. We have one shoe that can be used for many
different sports. In the area of human resources, it is not
going to be just the one thing you can do. It is going to
be the many things you can do, or the many things you have
capabilities of doing. Students, I would say, have to
understand that that is the point where they are going to.
They have to see a vision. They have to see a dream. They
have to self develop themselves because it is the minds of
people that other people are going to want to work with. It
has nothing to do with the facilities. It has nothing to do
with the equipment. If you cannot think, you cannot grow.
In that respect, I feel that the University catered more to
the all around student, especially in the area of collegiate
sports. They would set a trend to where everyone would be
happy regardless if school was tough or not. It would comes
with self confidence.
W:Let me get a little more specific so that I can break this
down. Where were you when you first heard about what was
going on, and what was the first thought that went through
your mind after you heard about it?
B:When I first heard it was going on, I was at work in the
Marstons Science Library, which I have worked at for three
and one-half years now. I was on the clock. I told my
supervisor that there were things that I had to do. He
allowed me to leave. I went to the Reitz Union. I walked
in. Everyone was closed basically, and it was quiet. I
walked in and went upstairs. I saw a few hundred students
on the third floor.
W:What were you thinking about on your way over there?
B:I was thinking collective behavior. I was thinking at it from
a sociological standpoint on how it was created or started
by the thoughts of one individual and look at it now--[it
is] to the point where the University is worried, not
listening to the demands, but threatening. The hurt was all
ready there, meaning suspension. The University is a place
to grow, a place to foster knowledge, a place to bounce
ideas off of other people. In a sense, if we are here to
grow to become better people and help our fellow man, when
we do it, do not slap us on the wrist for it. Do not teach
us to be strong, stand tall, walk proud, and achieve, and
then tell us you cannot do that. I am not talking on a
materialistic level. I am not talking on a financial level.
I am talking on an internal spiritual level.
W:I am thinking back to that night, and I remember that Dr. James
Scott (now at Georgia State), the former dean of student
services was there. These were the people representing the
UF administration. Dr. Art Sandeen, the vice president of
student affairs was there. Nikido Mani was there. I was
there. I was student body treasurer at the time. There had
been a senate meeting going on down in the auditorium on the
second floor. As you just described, when you walked in
several hundred students were filling that corridor in the
area between the elevator and the Student Government
Executive Offices. There were people sitting down on the
floor. There were some people standing around. There were
also a group of students. Besides the 200 to 300 students
that were sitting outside office in the meeting area which
any student is allowed to use, there were students on the
inside Student Government Offices where the president, vice
president, and senate offices were. They had posted
different signs that they had found in the windows. It was
barricaded. What were your thoughts about the people who
were on the inside, on the other side of that glass wall or
door?
B:I remember vividly now. Let me work on some thoughts here. I
remember the senate room. I remember students within the
senate room--senators who knew what they were doing and all
of a sudden were afraid because there were so many
individuals in the room who wanted something accomplished.
In that particular room...
W:This was the original senate chambers.
B:The original senate chambers.
W:That is right because there were speeches organized and the
meeting was so big they had to move it to the auditorium.
B:Exactly.
W:So this is not the third floor, this is the second floor.
B:This is the second floor going from the senate chambers into
the auditorium. I did not stay in the auditorium much. I
was in the senate chambers and I was upstairs. I was called
back to work for a little while, and I came back afterwards.
In the senate chambers, again people know what they do.
Individuals know what they do. Sometimes people are not
conscious of what they say, but their actions [speak louder
than words]. They know what they are doing. When you look
at it from that standpoint, the student government senate,
just because someone is not in your face [does not mean]
someone should have to be in your face to look out for the
betterment of the group. It was unnecessary for 100
students to occupy the senate chamber for someone to listen.
W:What was the reason that the students were there? Why did BAM
take place specifically? It was a funding issue, was it
not?
B:It was a funding issue for Black History Month and getting a
speaker if I recall correctly.
W:A particular speaker. As I remember it, the senate president
himself, Jason Unger, was not at the senate meeting, and
neither was the student body president.
B:Correct. The people that actually dictated what could happen
were not there.
W:Senate pro tem, Meredith Phillips, from Delta Phi Epsilon
sorority. She was presiding over the meeting.
B:Yes, there was a young lady who was presiding.
W:Can you describe the nature of the discussion? What was the
atmosphere in each of those chambers--in the senate chamber
proper and then when it spilt over into the auditorium?
What was the attitude? What was the atmosphere like?
B:Again, if you look at it under the area of collective behavior,
you have some individuals there. For instance, you can take
the story of Malcolm X. Malcolm X had a vision. Malcolm
had a dream, and a way of life instilled in his head. His
thoughts were for the betterment of his people. There were
plenty of people right behind him who were riding his wave.
So I can say that even within that senate chamber, there
were some students there who were there because there was
not anything to do. There were some students there who were
not thinking for themselves. There were some students there
who were thinking for themselves, and there were some
students there who were thinking for the betterment of
everyone. The attitudes of the senators was we messed up
and we are going to have to pay for this. The attitudes of
the students was fight for anything you can get basically.
They pushed our buttons enough for us to not take the stand.
W:If you can recall, in the senate chambers there was a very
organized presentation. There were speakers who had been
using the speaking time in order to take up all the time in
the senate on that particular night. When it went into the
auditorium, which is bigger, there was an incident with
was there not, with a bat or something. Was that
on a different night?
B:I cannot say anything about what happened in the auditorium
because it would be heresy. I was not present.
W:At no point in time, you were not present?
B:I glanced in and out.
W:You saw that Meredith Phillips was presiding or a young woman
was presiding.
B:Exactly.
W:Let us talk about what you saw in the senate chamber, and then
we will go back to the third floor where everybody was.
Describe what you saw in the senate chamber.
B:I saw students who were tired of being manipulated. I saw
students whose time of manipulation had come to an end. I
saw students and spoke with students. Here is an incident.
This is pretty renown or a well known incident that many
black students have encountered. When you are a black
student, when you communicate with white students on a level
which is professional, the first thing a student wants to
say is you are a different type of black person, or you
speak different referring kind of towards you speak white.
W:Why do you think they are saying that a person that speaks well
speaks white?
B:It is a mindset.
W:Could you elaborate on that? What do you mean?
B:It is a mindset because they do not know or do not see other
people across the world achieving whether it is Japanese,
Chinese, Asian, South African simply because white people
here are a majority in the United States of America and are
unable or do not take the time to experience other cultures
or other people. Black people have no choice, especially
the black people here in America. We have to pay attention
to the white person. White people do not necessarily have
to pay attention to the black person.
W:Why is that do you think?
B:It is the economic situation, the economic thing.
W:Strictly economic?
B:Strictly economic. Noone is going to live in a certain area if
they can live in better than that area. We are all
consumers when you wrap it all up. So I had this
conversation with this young lady and I corrected her. I
said, "You are saying that I am different. The difference
is education. It has nothing to do with you color. It has
nothing to do with your color. It deals with education. So
I am not a different black person, I am an educated black
person." I corrected her and told her, "Don't you ever say
that because I understand it is a mindset. Don't you ever
say to a black person that they are different because they
speak white. You best say that you speak proper English."
W:And you see a difference between those two things?
B:There is a huge difference. What does it mean to say you speak
white? White people have many different dialects
themselves. You have the farmer. You have the western type
culture. You have the city type person. You cannot break
it down to just one race. Irish people act different from
Italians. In a sense, it is all considered white.
W:So it is almost a suggestion that white people in America have
a monopoly on standard formal English to make that kind of
comment.
B:Agreed. It is a mindset. It is a conditioning that has been
instilled within kids from when they are younger. There is
no real way around it except through education. That is the
only way around it. If the people in power would understand
that they could have more power and prestige if they did not
try to hold others down or oppress others, everyone would be
happy. You can see again, in industry, everyone is working
towards this win-win situation, or a win-win solution. What
does that mean? That means stop oppressing people. Stop
employing people as far as employer/employee. No. It is a
partner. Look at life as a partnership. You do not look at
life as an owner in work.
W:You seem to look at things in a business or economic
perspective. Has that helped you rationalize some of the
irrationality to look at it from a business point of view?
B:Yes, in a sense that most people I know or come in contact with
forget the human development side and look at the
materialism. They feel that if they can get to this
materialistic paradise, they will find happiness. They will
be happy. It has again been shown by many celebrities,
millionaires, rich kids (students) who are not happy, but
have all the material items that they could ask for. Things
are given to them right on a platter. They are still not
happy. That tells me that in life there is more than just
the material side of it. If most of society is geared
towards this materialism, materialism comes from economics.
Materialism comes from business. If you analyze business
and then add human factors, human communication and
qualities, to business, business will boom and individuals
will be happy.
W:What do you think was the most significant event that occurred
to you or around you since you have come to the University
of Florida?
B:I would say that the most significant event that occurred here
at the University and has molded me in the areas of human
communication are the areas of friendships with men and
women. The most significant experiences that have happened
here at the University that I believe are significant to my
prosperity in the future all deal with individual, personal
relationships. It is not just one thing. For instance, the
individual I was talking about, the young lady we discussed
speaking proper or speaking white, has an effect on me. How
I deal with that situation with her has an effect on me. I
can say that there is no one significant instance in my
life, besides my father's death, which has created the
individual talking on this tape. [[end of this side]].
W:We are continuing the interview with Bryan George Burton in 423
Little Hall for the Oral History Archives of the University
of Florida. The interviewer is Marna Weston. Bryan, what
single achievement at the University of Florida in a
nonacademic realm did you have that you are most proud of
that had a significant impact upon the person that you are
now.
B:I would say that the one significant achievement that I am most
proud of here at the University (nonacademic) would be the
creation of the Black Male Extravaganza. Why do I say that?
I say that because it an accomplishment for me, but it said
more than that. During that time, black males here on
campus were getting a bad rap because of some negative
incidents dealing with one particular black man. The media
hyped it up to a point where many other races and creeds all
ready fear black men, for whatever reason. I just wanted to
show to the University and to the student body that the
black man is not a person to be feared, but a person to be
allied with.
W:Before we go back and talk about the implications of what you
were talking about, the fear, I want to ask you to give a
little more basic background of what the Black Male
Extravaganza was. How did it start? Did you develop it?
Where was it held? Could you give a little background on
that?
B:The Black Male Extravaganza was organizationally developed
between Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity and the NAACP Gator
chapter. What it was was an event showing the different
aspects of the black man. What I did was I took the talent
of about sixty-five different individuals here on campus,
and created an event out of it. It was a time for black
students or black males here on the campus to showcase
themselves. Not everyone gets recognized because they were
in the computer lab working on a newsletter for hours. Not
everyone is recognized for all the work involved in creating
what everyone sees. Not everyone is the showboat or on the
frontline for everyone to see. What I was trying to do
there was let people see the people behind the scenes of
every different organization here on campus, as well as pay
tribute to the great black men of the past. We had
theatrical events, monologues, and plays. We showcased
through a fashion show type scenario the graduating seniors.
We had some dances incorporated in there. We had some oral
speaking, and reading biographies on people of the past.
From that one event, it challenged the women to do the same
thing. People work for other people and work hard when it
is appreciated. I guess in my sense, what I was trying to
show here was that even though you may not always have you
fifteen minutes of fame, those who do not, I was trying to
give it to. I was trying to show them that you are
somebody, you know something, and it is appreciated because
we were not brought into the world to live alone. On that
basis, you have to appreciate all those that you work with
or come in contact with and respect.
W:I think that kind of leads back into that previous issue, the
question of fear. Do you feel that black men are feared in
the general population?
B:Yes. There is no doubt about it, and no question in my mind.
When you look at the numbers, and you look at the majority,
the majority of the black men out there because of the
system fall short of being that black man we know they can
be. That is a system thing. Again it comes down to
education. If you are not educated, or if you do not have a
strong belief system for yourself, you are just going to do
what others tell you to do. You are just going to follow
the crowd. Again, you will not be unique. You will not be
different. You will just be amongst the masses. The masses
are usually where stereotypes are constructive and creative.
W:How does this fear translate into how black men are perceived
or how they are treated whether it is between other students
walking to class?
B:It translates right into that. For instance, an experience I
had where there was this white lady at the teller, and I was
at the teller. There was an impoverished black man there
who was standing around the teller area. Right there you
have two black men. You have one black man who because of
economic reasons is less fortunate than the other black man.
This white lady has these two black men. The reason I do
things had nothing to do with race. It had to do with
because she was a woman. I was at the teller withdrawing my
money. I saw the other black man there. Before I left,
towards the lady I said, "Would you like me to stay until
you get your money?" She said, "No, that is okay." I said,
"Okay." I was walking away, and she said, "Thank you." See
I had to give in that scenario. I had to show there was a
concern of mine for the woman. This comes from being raised
by my mother, a respect for a lady and so on. If I was a
white man at the teller doing what I was doing, if it did
cross my mind, I probably would have never asked the lady.
She would have asked me.
W:Do you think that situation would have been different if the
person who appeared to be more impoverished had been a white
person? Do you feel that you would have been as inclined to
do the same thing because it was a lady?
B:Yes. On the fact of how I was raised, I did that for her
benefit, whether she was black, white, or whatever race,
color, or creed. I know how it was interpreted by her was a
different type black. It has nothing to do with the color
of your skin.
W:I have felt this way before. Do you feel a responsibility to
justify and explain I am out here doing good deeds and I
just want you to see that? If so, where does that come
from, that need to have to justify I am doing the best I can
and trying to help people as I go along. Where does that
come from?
B:In a sense, I guess it is a personality trait. You have two
type of people. You have the selfish person, and you have
the giving person. The selfish person wants everything for
themself, and expects you to come to them. He wants to have
the power to dictate how you operate. The giving person,
again this can go back to a quote. I do not know how to say
it or whether it is a quote or not. The whole concept of
teaching a man a fist or giving a man a fist. I know I can
achieve. I know I am capable of doing many things. Again,
you do not live in this world isolated. When you are
isolated, you tend to pick up psychological disorders
because you cannot communicate. The basis of life is to
grow within your environment. The whole circle of life
concept is true. I cannot do one single thing to help
others without the help of someone else.
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