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COPYRIGHT NOTICE


This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section
107) which allows limited use of copyrighted
materials under certain conditions.
Fair use limts the amount of material that may be
used.

For all other permissions and requests, contact the
SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida










Interviewee: Scott Sloan

Interviewer: Carol MacDonald

July 8, 1992

UF212

M: This is Carol MacDonald conducting an interview with Mr. Scott Sloan, director of facilities

planning for the University of Florida. This is an interview for the Ham Museum of Art Oral History

Program. Today is July 8, 1992.

[How was it that you happened to come to the University of Florida?]

S: We decided we would move south somewhere, and I was fortunate enough to come to the

University of Florida. I have been here six years now. It has been interesting. The big thing we

are starting right now is a master plan. We are going to be doing a ten-year comprehensive

master plan for the University, and I will be involved in that effort.

And we just finished a building. We held a competition for the [Samuel P.] Ham Museum [of Art].

M: The NEA-sponsored competition [National Endowment for the Arts]?

S: Yes. It had already become a state project, and the committee that was formed with the campus

people and the community people were looking for a site. It involved the director [of facilities

planning] at that time, John Carlson, [who] was involved with the committee in terms of selecting

the sites. By the way, he is on campus. He works for IFAS [Institute of Food and Agricultural

Sciences] now.

M: You did not particularly think that was a good site?

S: No. There were no utilities serving the site [on SW 34th Street and Hull Road]. It eventually

created some problems down the road in terms of budgeting for the project. We were looking at a

couple of other sites at that time that we thought might be more appropriate. But I guess the

driving reason behind picking that site was the amount of land available, because they did

anticipate putting the [Florida] Museum of Natural History there, the exhibition building, and also

[the Center for Performing Arts]. The funding came in and the community got involved and the










legislative people got involved, and before you knew it we had all these commitments to do a lot of

different things.

Needless to say, the site was selected, and we worked then to further develop the program for the

museum. We went through the A.E. [WHAT IS THAT ?] selection process with not only [BREAK

IN TAPE].

The architect was not only selected to design the building, but also to do the master site plan for

the cultural complex which eventually would be built out there. That is basically where I really got

involved in the project--when it had already been determined that it was going to be a state

project. Basically because statutorily, we cannot select an architect through competition. A large

number of firms applied for the project.

M: Including Mr. Porter?

S: Yes. Mr. Porter applied. I cannot recall the team that he joint-ventured with. Being an out-of-

state architect, the prime architect would have to be a Florida firm.

M: He was from Ohio.

S: Yes. Toledo. What happened was a number of Florida firms joint ventured with ... By the way, a

number of those big-name architectural types . Many of them were superstars. When we

actually went through the interview process, the team that we selected did the best. They

joint-ventured with Jackson Reeger which is a so they had Walter Netch on their team,

who formerly worked for and was retired, but was well-known for many of his theories

of planning and architecture and design. We went through the selection process, and I think all

the people on the selection committee felt that that team was the most comfortable to work with. I

think there was a worry that these other teams had a very ego-driven superstar architect involved.

It might not be the only thing. Another thing that we worried about was our budget. We had a

real tight budget. We were comfortable with the presentation that Kahn and his group gave. We

felt that he certainly had the design capabilities.

S: The whole team that was put together for the project [BREAK] We got involved in the project,

however, and it became apparent that there was a conflict of egos between Walter NETSCH and










KAI [LAST NAME ? Who are they?] [BREAK] proposals and finally worked that out for the

[WHAT ?]. There were some differences. Walter had one idea about how he wanted the building

to be, and Kai had a different idea, and they just could not seem to agree. [BREAK] withdrew

from the team. [BREAK] real happy with.

You felt confident in his experience.

His experience, plus we selected the team, he being one of the team members. But we knew

there was not much we could do, and we felt that we could move ahead.

We finally got the building resolved. I do not know [if it was] through my intervention. I finally

came in, and Kai was continuing with his people to not really [BREAK] Walter's original proposal

was for something like the building is now, where you would have maybe the auditorium and then

the [BREAK] took the gallery idea that Kai had, which is what you have now, with the central

changing-exhibit gallery and the galleries around it where people can circulate around that

[BREAK] elements and not necessarily wrapping them all around it, but separating them in a

logical way where then you could, for example, use the auditorium when the rest of the building

was closed. So we combined the two design schemes and ended up with the building we have

now.

So you had quite a bit of input into the design.

Yes. [BREAK] moving forward.

And you had a schedule, of course.

Right. Exactly.

It was probably idealistic.

[I do not] know that we ever met the schedule. A number of things happened. Again, going back

to one I mentioned, the site selection.

What happened with the site?

We were funded for money for the project [and to] build the building. The DOT [Department of

Transportation] parking lot project got involved where that lot was funded through DOT, but it was

built on our campus and we were going to use it in conjunction with the three buildings. [There










were also] utilities [to plan]. What happened was after the building was funded [BREAK] call one

night on a Sunday night [BREAK] sounds great. Well, that is what they gave us, but then Santa

Fe [Community College] somehow got $500,000, $450,000 of it to go toward the planning of their

building. A bunch of strange things happened in the funding of that.

I am not exactly sure how it all went together, but what happened was we ended up with only

about $550,000 in money for the utilities for the site, which ultimately cost $3.5 million. So what

we did in order to fund the utility portion was we took off the three projects that were going to be

on the site that we had money for. Santa Fe was getting money for their project, [and] we had

money for the Ham Museum. The [Florida] Museum [of Natural History] [BREAK] but we made

them commit some funds. They ended up having to put some funds [BREAK] The entomology

and nematology building was being built nearby, so we took those four projects and decided that

what we would have to do in order to fund the utilities for that area was that they would all have to

contribute a percentage based on their anticipated utility usage. The entomology building was the

biggest utility user, so they contributed the most money. In fact, I think that project contributed

almost $1.5 million. But what we did was take money out of each of the projects, and got enough

money together to fund all the utilities for the site. [BREAK] it was probably the worst part of that

project from my perspective because of the underbudgeting for utilities and the real low budget for

the museum. I was trying to get this thing all to happen without reducing the size of the museum,

compromising the program, and still being able to The last thing we wanted was a $5

million utility plant and a $3 million museum. [BREAK]

That was quite difficult, and there was a lot of juggling of funds and going back and forth with

money and making IFAS [Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences] not real happy that we took

money out of their buildings' budget.

Everybody thought that they could have certainly constructed a stand-alone building without a

central chiller plant and without [BREAK] It cost a lot of money to build a utility plant and a

distribution system when you can build [BREAK] that could have been cheaper. We never

convinced anybody that it was cheaper to do it the other way, but, then again, we did not have a










lot of choice. We really needed to build a central plant out there. We did not want four buildings

with stand-alone systems and the inherent maintenance problems. [BREAK] was not happy

because they had to borrow money to give to us based on their future fund raising.

So it was a really complex budget problem, but we finally got the money together and worked with

the construction manager, GILBANE Building Company, to do the museum. [They] also built the

central plant for us. [BREAK] [We were] able to achieve the goal of building the central plant,

providing the proper water and sewer lines, fire protection, everything for that site, without having

to reduce the scope of the building. I believe we reduced the Ham Museum by about 1,500

square feet. I think the original [BREAK] You are not aware of it when you are inside the building,

but the galleries on the north side and the south side that flank the central changing-exhibit gallery

are identical to the same [BREAK] I believe the ones on the south side were a little bit bigger.

And that is the only change you had to make?

That was really the only change that we made in the building. [BREAK] minor things, but it really

worried me that we were going to get into this whole problem of reducing that building and causing

problems. Again, the performing arts building managed to survive it all. It was a real kind of a

complex process. It was probably one of the most frustrating projects I [have] ever worked on. It

was the most fun because it was a museum, but [it was] the most frustrating because of the

budget issues. All I was ever thinking about was the stupid budget and if we were going to have

enough money to build the chilled-water plant and provide enough electricity to the building. It

worked out well.

I think part of it is because the various users of the other buildings, although they did not like it,

understood the whole goal and mission of creating the cultural complex, of building the museum

and eventually having a performing arts building. [BREAK] reluctantly let us do it, and we took

the money. A couple of times the president intervened to inform people.

Dr. [Robert Q.] Marston?

No. It was Dr. [Robert] Bryan, in fact, when he was interim, [who] was involved. [BREAK] We did

two basic (I would call them) allocations. We did the initial one, and we felt we had enough money










to complete all the utilities. But then as the utilities were designed and we got into actual pricing,

we were still short of funds. So we went back and did a second allocation. [BREAK]

And you had to go back?

Yes, we had to go back to everyone and take some more money. But it worked out. Ultimately

we have the museum, and now the performing arts building is there. Hopefully they are going to

[BREAK] getting there. I think we are kind of over the hill now. We are at a position where the

future projects that are going to go there, namely, the new museum of natural history, is going to

face that kind of [difficulty].

[BREAK] in itself was interesting. Again, the site was selected without anybody doing anything in

terms of investigation for utilities or the site itself in terms of whether it was capable of sustaining a

building. We knew when we did the entomology building that there were some sink holes or

cavities underground, and when we went to build the museum [BREAK] the cavities were about

sixteen to twenty feet below [BREAK] real big, so they were not going to have a big impact. Our

problem came when we dug the basement, the lower level, because by then with the excavation

we were right on top of some of the cavities and the voids. There was one particularly large one

that was not in the basement area but just south of it. In fact, we had one collapse during

construction in the basement [that] we had to fill in. What happened was, because we were so

close to those they needed to be stabilized during construction. It was not a worry after the

building was built and the basement was poured and the structure was in. But during construction

it could have been a problem. So we spent [BREAK] huge one. In fact, we even used a new

method called sand grouting that they perfected down at Disney World, apparently. We filled it

with sand and then put a concrete plug on the top of the big hole so it would not fill with water and

collapse. That cost some additional money.

Again, the budget on this project drove me absolutely crazy. We almost used up our whole

contingency in the first month of construction between the sink holes and the cavities we had to fill

and expansive clay, which is another problem in Florida. It is clay that expands and contracts

tremendously when it absorbs water or dries out. It can [BREAK] around foundations of buildings










and can actually crack the foundation and move the building a little bit. So what we had to do was

overexcavate and then bring sand fill dirt in to put around the footings. We ran into a bunch of

expansive clay, also, when we were digging the foundation, so we had to overexcavate quite a bit

and bring in fill dirt. So just getting the building out of the ground [nearly wiped out our entire

contingency fund]. I think, we had a $208,000 contingency at the time as extra money that is

available in case there are problems [BREAK] to take care of the cavities and expansive clay.

That money was supposed to last us the whole project in case of problems.

It was interesting. We got the building out of the ground. Once we got out of the ground the

problems were less. GILBANE Building Company, which was the construction manager, really

worked closely with us in trying to keep the budget under control.

Is that a local contractor?

No. They are from Providence, Rhode Island. They do not do work in Florida anymore. They

used to have an office [BREAK]

I should probably go backwards a little bit here. It was done as a construction management

project only because it took us so long to get the whole A.E. selection process taken care of. We

got into doing the actual drawings for the actual design of the building, and we realized just prior to

getting to 50 percent construction documents that we were not going to be able to finish the

drawings and bid the building before the reversion date on the funds. [BREAK] you can get them

contract without bidding [BREAK] with Gilbane. The documents were only 50 percent [BREAK]

very closely with us to keep the cost of the building within what they thought they could build it for,

obviously, because if they could not they would bear the additional burden if they could not do it

for [BREAK] foundations and whatever.

[BREAK] ultimately worked better for us because of their ability and they willingness to work with

us to contain costs. They were very aware of the budget, as we were, and they really worked very

well with us to try to maintain the quality of the building [BREAK] ended up being behind schedule

[BREAK] plant was not quite on schedule, so the chilled water [BREAK] and Mr. [Budd Harris]

Bishop [director, Ham Museum of Art] was anxious to get into the building. He had a planned










opening, and we finally [BREAK] let us finish the building completely [BREAK] in the building to

make sure everything worked properly for them to get all the installations put in and everything in

place. I think it worked a little bit better. Then I think they [BREAK] I think it worked very well.

It kind of all worked out, because it was a big weekend; a lot of people were here, and a lot of

people went to the opening. I think it was very successful. I like the building myself. Personally,

aesthetically I like it. I really like the way the galleries work. I think you go in that building and it is

a very [BREAK] It does establish an identity that is a lot different from campus, and that is one

reason some people do not like it. They like the brick and the collegiate Gothic and what the

campus is like over here on the east side. Then they go over there and see that building and think

[BREAK] about that cultural complex was that because it does not serve just the University; it is

really a community complex. It probably serves more people away from the University than really

who are ...

Well, it is the largest museum of its type in the Southeast.

[BREAK] complex is going to be something different. That is why we did not want it necessarily

identified as a University-type building, so we went with because of budget reasons, but

because of that we went with the DRIVET and stucco appearance. That is why the performing

arts building is that way, and that is why, I am sure, we will have [BREAK] important, because

that whole complex is for everyone. It is for [BREAK] itself is very, the design of it. I mean, it is

[BREAK] architect might tell you more about that. He had some ideas [BREAK] I think that the

skylight in the ...

In the basement?

No, in the changing-exhibit gallery. There is a skylight in there that is covered. The architect was

very insistent on putting a skylight [BREAK] I think, but, then again, when you need light you can

have it. So if there are exhibits that really need some natural lighting, it is available, rather than

not having any.

There were a number of things we did change in the building. [We] reduced rather the size of the

building for cost and energy efficiency. The original entrance to the building next to the museum,










the high [BREAK] the museum consultant told us it should be 1.5, it should be 1.23, or whatever.

What we did was SENSE containers ... Circulation is really internal [BREAK] figures in the

gross, so you add that extra square footage for circulation. I took [BREAK] space that really was

not in the program that we managed to [BREAK] not definable [BREAK]

That was probably why this project was so much fun. It was a lot different than most projects. It

was not as straightforward because of the budget problems and because of what we wanted to

achieve. We manipulated some things a little bit differently in terms of even doing that. I mean,

most projects you worry about [the budget]. The net-to-gross ratio is just something you [have to

deal with]. [BREAK] problems and all the site problems. They all kind of happened on this one

project, and in the end it ended up being a very nice project, which is the bottom line, I guess, in

what we look at in this office. I still do with my staff. [BREAK] that is important.




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