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This Oral History is copyrighted by the Interviewee
and the Samuel Proctor Oral History Program on
behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of
Florida.

Copyright, 2005, University of Florida.
All rights, reserved.

This oral history may be used for research,
instruction, and private study under the provisions
of Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of United States
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SAMUEL PROCTOR ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at
the University of Florida











UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA


ORAL HISTORY PROJECT



This is an interview with Wanda Cowart (Mrs. William) Ebersole of Gainesville,
Florida. A sixth generation Floridian, she was raised in De Soto County and
graduated from high school there in 1945. She then went on to the Forida State
College for Women in Tallahassee, but when the Florida legislature voted to allow
co-education in 1947 Mrs. Ebersole transferred to Gainesville. She graduated from
the University of Florida with a degree in pharmacy in 1951 and was employed at
the Florida Pharmacy and Canova's Prescription Center.

Wanda Ebersole has vivid memories of campus life in Gainesville. The co-ed
issue is described, including details of women professors, student government,
Savant/Florida Blue Key, and even bathrooms for women (which were not a
problem). Co-education combined with the post-war boom of men who had
deferred their education for the war to create unique problems in the areas of
housing, registration, and financial assistance. She also recalls classroom life
including summer school, dress code practices, professor/student relations, tuition
and other fees, alcohol policies, and Marva V. Brady, the first dean of women, who,
incidentally, was herself an ex-marine.

The most interesting portion of the interview deals with social life. She was very
active in sorority life with the Chi Omega sorrity, and her recollections of early
sorority/fraternity life on campus are especially noteworthy. Related matters as
theater houses, eating establishments, pinning, dating, and special events such as
homecoming, Fall and Spring Frolics, and military balls are also outlined.



P: My name is Kathleen Syler Perruci, and I am conducting an oral history
interview with Mrs. Wanda Ebersole in her home at 2735 NW 22nd Drive in
Gainesville, Florida. Today's date is March 24, 1988. Mrs. Ebersole, would you
please state your full name for us?

E: I am Wanda Cowart Ebersole.

P: Where were you born, Mrs. Ebersole?

E: I was born in Arcadia, in De Soto County, but I lived in Nocatee.


P: Is that nearby?









E: Nocatee is four miles south of Arcadia.


P: Do you mind telling us what your birth date was?

E: April 18, 1927.

P: What were your parents' names?

E: My mother was Marcia Whaley Cowart, but everybody called her Billie. When
she was growing up there was an Indian family that lived fairly close by, and she
played with the little Indian boy named Billy, so forever after she was called Billie.
My father is Ernest Leslie Cowart. He was born in Nocatee and still is in Nocatee.

P: Where was your mother born?

E: My mother was born in Torry, Florida.

P: So they are both native Floridians.

E: Yes. I am a sixth generation Florida cracker on both sides. I like to remind Sid
Martin [Florida representative] that I have been here longer than he has.

P: What was your father's occupation?

E: He had a little corner drugstore.

P: So you grew up in Nocatee. Did I say that right?

E: Nocatee. It is an Indian name. They said when the Indians came through they
said "Nocatee," and that means "What is it?"

P: What was the name of the elementary school that you attended?

E: [In Arcadia I attended De Soto Elementary School. In the middle of fourth
grade we moved to Nocatee, where I went to] Nocatee Elementary School. [I
remember that high school students and my older sister and I were the only ones
who rode the bus. I was very small for a fourth grader--I weighed thirty-four
pounds--and the high school boys would pass me over their heads down to a seat
in the middle of the bus.]

P: How many grades did that encompass?

E: Just eight. Then we took a bus to Arcadia.


P: To high school?









E: Yes, to De Soto High School.

P: What year did you graduate?

E: 1945.

P: When you graduated, did you directly enter UF [University of Florida], or did
you sit out for a while?

E: No, I went to FSU [Florida State University].

P: Which was then called Florida College for Women?

E: Florida State College for Women. There were boys there, however, because
there had been a [military] base there--Eglin Field, I think. When the war was over,
lots of boys wanted to go to school, and some of them were still in the service, so
they stayed there and attended FSU.

P: So FSU allowed co-education before UF, is that right?

E: Well, actually, I guess they did not call it co-education. It was just like the army
has people going to college now. They did not call it co-ed because it was a
women's college, but the boys were there.

E: How long did you attend FSU?

P: I left in the spring of 1947.


P: So you started in the fall of 1945.

E: A year and a half.

P: Why did you decide to attend UF?


How long were you there?


E: To go to pharmacy school. They did not have a pharmacy school in
Tallahassee.

P: And UF had been allowing women students to go to pharmacy school, is that
right?

E: Yes, pharmacy and law and anything that was not offered in Tallahassee.

P: Did they still have that rule in effect that you had to have sixty hours to transfer
to go into the pharmacy school?


E: No, I do not remember that.









P: You were still a sophomore, in other words, [when you left FSU]. How come
you did not just immediately go to UF when you decided to go to pharmacy
school? Did you decide to go into pharmacy after you attended FSU for awhile?

E: Yes. I had not really decided if that was what I was going to do. Of course,
most my friends went to Tallahassee.

P: That usually has influence.

E: Yes, you would not want to come here all alone when you were a freshman.
You would not think about pharmacy at that time, I guess.

P: Do you remember how you found out that UF was going co-ed? Was there
some talk about it before it was announced, or did it come as a surprise?

E: Well, I am sure there was a lot of talk about it. Actually, there were some girls
here already. I met and made friends with them. Then lots of girls came that
summer.

P: Of 1947?

E: Yes.

P: Were you happy to hear that there were finally going to be females?

E: Oh, yes, I was delighted.

P: What was the male reaction on campus when they found out?

E: Oh, well, they thought it was going to be great. But, the boys at the university
were older. This was after the war. We had lots of married students who were
thirty or thirty-five and had families; they lived over in Flavet Village. They were
very serious students. They had been through the war and they knew what they
wanted to do, so it was very competitive because they were studying all the time.

P: What was the social life for the girls who were here before it actually went
co-ed? Did you have a lot of dates since there were not many girls here?

E: Well, I think so. I guess I always had a lot of dates. I dated a lot of new boys
that I met here, but I also dated a lot of boys from Arcadia.

P: That you already knew?

E: Yes, and I dated lots of them, too.

P: Did many of your friends who were attending FSU decide to transfer to UF









when it went co-ed?


E: No, I do not think so.

P: I was going to ask you what the procedure was for getting admitted, but since
you were already here it may have been different. Do you remember what you had
to do as far as qualifying to come to UF?

E: I think they accepted anybody. I do not think they were very strict or that you
had to have a high grade point average. I think it was just that some girls were
interested in coming because their boyfriends were here, so they had special
reasons for coming.

P: Do you remember registering for your first semester of classes?

E: Well, registration was always awful. It was worse then because they were not
prepared for all of the army people. There were always long, long lines like there
are now. In addition, when I got into pharmacy school I had to take second
semester organic chemistry before I could take the first semester course because
first semester was full. It was horrible. There were long lines, and [the classes
were] always full because they did not have the facilities for the class.

P: So you actually had to go--they called this running for classes where I came
from--and physically sign up for each class that you wanted and stand in line for
everything.

E: Yes, and still not get it. It was rough. I had one chemistry class that had 350
boys.

P: How did you feel?

E: I did not feel bad. Like I said, so many of them were older, and they sort of
treated me like a little sister of theirs. It was not like all the boys were chasing you
for a date.

P: What about the professors? Did you ever feel like you were being singled out
by the professors for special attention?

E: Well, I guess there are always some professors who think they should treat
you special, but most of them were very open and nice, and they wanted to help.

P: Did you ever feel any type of (for the lack of a better word) discrimination from
them? I remember that Joyce Glicksberg spoke to our class, and she said that
there were a few instances--especially in the business school, I think--where the
professors would really try to make it tough for the girls to see if they could handle
it. Did you ever experience anything like that?










E: No, I think that most of my classes were so large that [they were satisfied] as
long as you got your work done. Some professors were easier than others. But
there were some, of course, who were a little too interested in you because you
were a girl.

P: Did you ever experience that?

E: No, not anything really bad because you learn how to avoid people like that,
especially some of the grad students. Dr. Gramling [Lea Gene Gramling, assistant
professor of pharmaceutical chemistry] was one of my favorite professors. I
flunked out one semester.

P: Oh, really?

E: And then I swore I was going to make straight A's the next semester, and I
did--except for Dr. Gramling's class. Nowadays the students call my husband
[William Ebersole, a part-time professor] all the time; no one thinks anything about
it. But that is the only time I ever called a professor, and it still sets me trembling
with fear just thinking about it. I just knew I had earned an A. He apologized and
he said he was very sorry, but that, yes, he knew that there was too much cheating
in that class.

P: He never gave you an explanation?

E: No, but he said he could not [change the grade] because he did not ever do
that. Of course, professors could only give but so many A's, so I got a B+ or
something.

P: That is too bad.

E: There are things like that you remember, but he was really special. He was
the hardest teacher in the school. Students said he talked so fast that if you
dropped your pencil you lost two pages of notes. He talked fast, but he was
probably the most honest. He taught us what he planned to test us on. He was
trustworthy, and you knew what he was going to do. That is why I thought he was
really good--I knew where I stood all of the time. He was hard, really hard, but that
is okay. If somebody gives it to you and you do not learn it, then that is your
problem.

P: How many hours did you take each semester?

E: Oh, I do not remember. Like I said, sometimes you could not get enough
hours because classes were full. I remember one time taking eighteen; that is the
most I ever took.
P: Was UF on a semester or a quarter system then?










E: UF was on a semester system, and Tallahassee had been on a quarter
system.

P: Was that a mess to transfer, then?

E: Yes, it was. I lost a lot of hours. I always felt like the semester system was
especially hard because you had to remember everything over Christmas.

P: Oh, and you took your finals when you got back in January?

E: Yes.

P: That would be hard.

E: And that means over Christmas [break] you think you are going to learn all of
the material, but you do not do that, do you?

P: Probably not. When did the school year start then? Was it later than it starts
now?

E: Oh, yes. [It was usually the] middle of September, which was later and much
cooler.

P: Back then they did not have air conditioning, did they?

E: Oh, no.

P: When did you get out for the summer then? Was it in June?

E: Yes.

P: Do you remember how much your registration fees usually ran?

E: No, I do not have any idea. You would have to look that up over at the office.
My father paid for things like that.

P: Did you have tuition then where you had to pay per [credit hour], or was it just
a flat fee?

E: I do not remember. I think it was a flat fee and you could take as many hours
as you wanted.

P: I believe that your yearbook and football tickets and a whole slew of other
things were included in that fee, so it was a lot different than it is today. Okay, let
us talk about your housing situation. We can try to tackle it both from the









standpoint of what your personal situation was when you first arrived (before
coeducation) and then, if you can remember, what some of your friends did.
Where did you live that first semester you showed up?

E: I lived with Dr. John Davis, who was a botanist at the university. His home was
four or five houses behind the [old] Sigma Nu house.
P: On what street would that be?

E: It was College Park then, I think.

P: Do you remember how many blocks that was from campus?

E: Of course, you know where the [old] Sigma Nu house is.

P: I am not sure I do.

E: It was on University Avenue, right across the street from the [old ROTC drill
field, which is now the] athletic field [parking lot], so it was close.

P: Oh, that is good. You did not have a long hike to get to class.

E: Some of my sorority sisters lived in rooming houses when they came, which
really were for girls who were working. I think they only had to provide you with a
bed. So, [in comparison], I had a very nice place to live with a lovely family.

P: They gave you your own room?

E: Yes. They had a daughter in high school. The house was split by a
breezeway, and there were two rooms in the back on that side, so we shared a
bath. We became friends.

P: Did they provide you with board as well?

E: Some board, but not all. I ate out a lot.

P: How did you make that arrangement? Did you do it before you came down?

E: No. My mother came with me when I was going to enter the university, and
she looked at ads in the paper and things like that. She found this one, and we
went to see them. She liked them very much. She did not look at rooming houses;
she only looked at homes.

P: She wanted to know who you were staying with.

E: She wanted to meet them.
P: Now, were you the only woman that they were boarding then?










E: Oh, yes. Then when I left they took in another student. I think they had built
that addition for her mother or his mother and they had stayed on that side. Then
when she died they decided to rent it out. I was their first tenant.

P: Well, that was probably a good business for the next year, then, because all
those women came and did not have any place to live. Do you know what the girls
did who came in the fall? I have a xerox here that is from a [Gainesvillel Sun
article that said "women students are being accepted on the same basis as men,
with the proviso that women must secure off-campus housing approved and listed
by the University Housing Office." I was wondering if you know if that meant that
they had to have housing before they could be admitted, or that they had to have
housing before they could actually register for classes?

E: Well, I think it was just like it said: they had to tell them where they were going
to live. Most of the housing, I think, was in rooming houses.

P: Yes. So the women would be admitted, and then they would, perhaps, come
down here before [classes started] to make arrangements. Did they have trouble
finding enough people who were willing to take in boarders?

E: There were not that many girls, I do not think. I do not think there was a
shortage of housing. I am sure that several people opened places for women, just
like people would do now.

P: Now, did you continue to live there the next year, or did you move to a different
place after the first semester?

E: I lived with the Davis's until I moved into the Chi Omega house. I moved into
the sorority house immediately after pledging in the fall of 1947 because we were
required to live in the house. It was fun living in the [sorority] house. You became
better friends with your sisters. The sorority houses were not really built for a
sorority. They were residences, not sororities. The Chi Omega house was an old
stone house that was owned by Joe Jenkins. He was a state representative, and
he rented it to us. The house, which is still there, is located across the street from
where the University president's house is now. (In 1947 the president's house was
in northeast Gainesville.) There were four sororities that were permitted and were
asked to come. The Chi O's always bragged because they were asked to come,
even though they did not have anybody on the Board of Regents or any connection
with the board and everybody else did. The Chi O's, the Tri-Delts [Delta Delta
Delta sorority], the A D Pi's [Alpha Delta Pi sorority], and the K D's [Kappa Delta
sorority] came.

P: You pledged Chi O?

E: Yes. My husband's mother was a Tri-Delt, and some friends of mine were









Tri-Delts. My relatives were A D Pi's. Chi Omegas had ten active sisters who
were going to live in Gainesville, and this was the only sorority that had that many.
The Tri-Delts had three actives who were going to live in Gainesville. Of course,
they had girls from Tallahassee--everyone from that chapter had come in to rush.
There were also a lot of married students who were sorority girls who became
active with the chapter. But Chi Omega had ten actives, and it was my first choice.
They did have ten and they took ten [pledges], so they were the only house that
was full. Upstairs at the house there was what you would call a family room on
one end. On the other end there was a porch, and the porch was turned into a
sleeping quarters. We had double-decker beds there. Downstairs there was a
living room, a dining room, and a kitchen, plus the living quarters for the
housemother.

P: Did you have meals there, too?

E: Yes, three meals a day.

P: Did the housemother cook them, or did you all take turns?

E: No, we had a cook.

P: Oh, you had a cook--the good life. Were all ten of you living at the house?

E: There was a pledge or two from Gainesville, but they did not live in the house.
Some pledges did, though, as did several of the actives.

P: How many did you have altogether?

E: We had fourteen in 1947 and eighteen in 1949 living in the house. We were
crowded.

P: Were you all in this one big room?

E: There was one other room that was upstairs, and that was the president's
room; she had a room with one roommate. Most of us slept on the sleeping porch
and some of us slept at the other end of the house in the other room I told you
about. Except for the president who had a bathroom, we all shared one bathroom
upstairs. Ray Moore Hall, my sorority sister, and I wonder how in the world we
ever managed in that one bathroom.

P: What kinds of rules did you have in the sorority?

E: It was very strict.

P: Really?
E: Yes.










P: Did you choose them yourselves, or was it something that you were told to do?

E: The "nuns," I am sure, made the rules. We had to be in, I think, at 11:00 p.m.
Sunday through Friday and by 1:00 a.m. on Friday and Saturday. It was
something like that. And they locked the door.

P: Oh, so if you were not there you were out for the night?

E: Well, actually I remember one time when someone came in late the
housemother let them in, but they were not supposed to.

P: What would happen to you if they did find out?

E: Oh, I do not know. None of the pledges ever did it. That was the only time I
ever knew about anybody being late. Of course, everybody would be parked
outside just waiting for the time to go in.

P: What were the rules about men visiting in the house?

E: You could have men to dinner, and men could take your suitcases upstairs. I
had a casual acquaintance with my husband before I knew him personally because
I used to double-date with his younger brother when I was in high school. When
we started dating (he was a Sigma Chi) he spent a lot of time at the Chi Omega
house. I remember one time we were all having lunch and two of the girls were in
their slips, and somebody said, "There is a man at the door." They got up and
started to go upstairs when somebody said, "Oh, it is only Billy," so they came
back down and had lunch. He never has gotten over that.

P: They felt comfortable with him.

E: Yes. [I remember that] our floats were not professional. We built our own
floats, and they were really pretty tacky compared to what they do today. Bill
always stayed up all night and helped us build our floats [instead of working] with
the Sigma Chi's.

P: For homecoming?

E: Yes. We thought they were wonderful, but when you see what they do today, I
cannot imagine what they were like with us building them. We had to build them
outside; they did not have any place inside to keep the crepe paper or any other
supplies. It was better to build with [colored aluminum] foil. It was a big event. Of
course, they had a lot of big homecoming dances then.

P: I am assuming that after coeducation had been growing on campus for several
years that you probably had a lot more pledges than the ten you said.










E: The Chi O's had ten pledges plus ten actives in 1947. I think the limit was
twenty for awhile. The first increase was to twenty-five; I do not remember the
date, but I do not think it was 1948.

P: So the whole time you were at UF, then, the sorority had that one house with
about twenty girls?

E: Yes. Some of the girls were married and some were Gainesville girls, and they
did not live in the house. We won all the prizes for athletics and scholarships and
everything. Everybody had to compete because we had such a small group.
Everybody had to play basketball. It did not matter if you [could] play--everybody
had to do everything. We won everything until the Jewish sorority came.

P: Which sorority was that?

E: I think it was Alpha Epsilon Phi. They were competitive and they were smart,
and we never were the stars again. They were really smart. All this was before
integration, of course. There was not a black person on campus.

P: Since we are on the topic of sororities, let me quickly run over my list of
questions here. What types of social functions did you all have with the
fraternities? Did they keep you pretty busy? I am assuming there were a lot more
fraternities.

E: Yes. Of course, they immediately wanted the girls to go "paddle the pledges"
or something like that. I remember that when we were initiated all of us in our little
white dresses went down and painted the lion at the S A E [Sigma Alpha Epsilon]
house. We took our time painting it, and all the S A E's came out and just stood
there watching us. They could not say or do anything--they were so surprised.

P: What is this lion you are talking about?

E: The S A E's traditionally have a lion in front of their houses; it is their mascot.
Now and then someone has even stolen it. But they just watched us, so that was
really funny. Of course, our alums had a fit that we would do such a thing. Then
the S A E's stole our owl [which is our mascot] and put it on top of the Pike [Pi
Kappa Alpha fraternity] house. But at the time they just could not interfere with
what we were doing because they were so surprised.

P: Oh, that would have been ungentlemanly.

E: No, that was not it. They were just in a state of shock. They were not used to
having girls on campus. The rush parties had themes, and we had the Old South
one time. [Our] cook--this nice, big, heavy black lady--was a wonderful person,
and we dressed her up in a bandanna. We were penalized because we were not









supposed to hire anybody. We were not supposed to have anybody outside the
sorority, and we used our cook.

P: What was the penalty for something like that?

E: Oh, I cannot remember. I just rememberthe incident; I do not remember what
they did to us. It took a year before we got our charter, so we had to colonize for a
year--it was Chi colony. All of the sororities colonized for a year. Then they had
President J. Hillis Miller [president, University of Florida] present the charters, and
we all went to the [University Memorial] Auditorium where the presidents [of the
sororities] were on the stage to receive them. The K D president (whose name I
do not remember, but she is probably in the yearbook) stumbled when she went to
get their charter, and then she fainted, or at least pretended to faint. At any rate,
they carried her off, and she was stiff. We always wondered if she really fainted or
if she was down and did not know what to do. So they just carried her--some of
them holding her shoulders and some of them her legs--and she was stiff. That is
a memory that you keep.

P: What was the feeling on campus of the women when they came? I know they
must have felt, certainly, like they were in the minority. There were only about 500
or so, I think, that came. Did they want to belong to sororities? Were there a lot of
women who would rush?

E: I think that probably quite a few women were rushees. It was always
competitive.

P: You do not remember, offhand, how many?

E: No, I do not know how many went out for rush. You would have to look in the
files for that. They had a big tea just like they do now, but it was over at the
[Florida] Union instead of at the sorority house.

P: Did rush go on during the school year?

E: Yes.

P: Did you have anything else that you wanted to say about the sororities that you
remember?

E: Not that I can think of.

P: Or about the housing situation?

E: No.

P: Do you remember when they first started building dorms for the women?










E: I cannot remember what year it was, no. I had graduated and was working.
You could not wear shorts or slacks on campus. That was true in Tallahassee,
also. If you were dressed casually you had to wear a raincoat. You would always
roll up your jeans or pants and put on a raincoat to go places because they would
not let you wear any kind of [pants] at school.

P: Was this true during the weekends?

E: You could never go on campus in casual clothes. Of course, at the sorority
houses and in dormitories you could lounge around in shorts or slacks, but you
could not go out to eat unless you had on a dress or a skirt or a raincoat.
P: What about the P.E. classes? Surely they got to wear shorts in P.E.

E: No, I do not think we even had P.E. classes.

P: Oh, really?

E: I do not believe so.

P: Let me show you an article that might jog your memory. They might have
started it later, but I do not know.

E: Maybe they did, but I cannot remember that.

P: This may have been because you came a little bit before. They talked about
having intramurals and also P.E.

E: Yes, I remember intramurals.

P: It sounded as if they had a fairly full curriculum.

E: Yes, I guess we did have P.E., then, because I remember our basketball and
volleyball games when we played the other sororities. I was thinking it was those
few sororities, but I guess we had some kind of program. But it was mostly games,
I think. We did not do calisthenics or anything like that that I remember.

P: [The newspaper] even said that some of them were going to be done with the
guys' P.E. classes. I just wondered if you were ever involved in any of that.

E: No, I never lucked into a P.E. class with boys. Never. I am glad I never played
basketball with the boys because they are so much better.

P: It might have been kind of rough.
E: The dean of women [Marna Venable Brady] was a former marine. We always
thought that was funny because they had to bring in the marines when the girls









came. She was really a very fine person.


P: Did you have any personal dealing with her?

E: No, but I think she was well chosen and did a good job.

P: Everybody pretty much liked her?

E: Yes, I think so. Oh, they would make jokes about her, but actually everybody
liked her. Some of the fraternity boys used to get drunk and go serenade at the
sororities. I am sure they do that today, too. You know, Alachua County was dry.

P: During that time?
E: Yes. When did it go wet? 1960?

P: I do not know.

E: Anyway, it was dry. The boys in the fraternity houses did have alcohol at the
fraternity houses, [but there was none] at the sorority houses.

P: During parties?

E: Yes, during parties at the frat houses. Never at the sorority houses.

P: How did they do that?

E: I have no idea. I just know they did.

P: What was the drinking age back then?

E: It had to be twenty-one, but I have heard people that did not even go to school
here talk about when it was dry in Gainesville. They said, "Oh, you could always
buy some from any taxi driver." There was a filling station close to Paynes Prairie
where they actually had it sitting on the wall that you could buy.

P: Oh, I think I remember Dr. Proctor talking about that. You would go out there
and there would be big lines.

E: Yes, but it was really dry.

P: That would be interesting to find out how they managed that! I want to ask you
some about the dress code. Was that a formal dress code that they had, that you
could not be on campus in pants or shorts?

E: Yes, girls had to be in skirts, just like at FSU. I am sure that you would have
seen Dean Brady if you did otherwise.










P: What would be a typical outfit that you would wear to class?

E: Well, in the winter you would wear a skirt and a sweater and saddle oxfords.

P: And bobby socks?

E: I always wore saddle oxfords. In fact, I still have my saddle oxfords because
my daughter said, "Don't ever get rid of them."

P: Yes, those are so popular. They come back in waves.

E: Yes, she pleaded, "Keep them, keep them, keep them." There was a big gully
on campus over by the union. They must have been putting in a septic system or
even something deeper. If you had fallen in, it was so deep they could never have
found you. We had to walk around it. Only two people at the Chi O house
had cars, so we walked to class.

P: They did not have parking on campus, did they?

E: No. You did not have to worry about parking, there were so many parking
places. You walked back and forth to the library.

P: So you had to dress sensibly--no high heels or anything like that?

E: Oh, nobody would ever dress in high heels to go to class.

P: What about when it got hotter, before school got out?

E: We wore dresses and skirts and blouses.

P: You just tried to stay cool.

E: Yes. We wore sandals or something. Never shorts--always skirts.

P: Did the guys' dress change at all when it got hotter out? Did they wear ties to
class?

E: No, I do not remember ever seeing any. The boys wore sport shirts, but they
never wore shorts, either. The professors were always dressed up, and you called
them "doctor" or "mister"--you never called them by their first name. They
addressed you by your last name, as "Miss Cowart." They always called the roll by
last names: Bush, Cowart, Hudson, Jones, etc.

P: I was going to ask you what you could wear to the library on the weekend, but
it sounds like you had to wear a dress.










E: Yes, you did not go on campus without one.


P: What about the football games?

E: They dressed up for the ball games. Even though it was hot, you usually wore
your new fall suit to the first and all the ball games, even in the bad weather. They
did this long after I had graduated. People were dressed up.

P: That is what it was like at the college I came from. I was shocked when I got
here.

E: Yes, we really dressed up.

P: Did you wear hats and the gloves and the whole works?

E: Oh, yes, everything! It was hot, it would be so hot! And they always had a big
homecoming dance. They had big name bands that would come and play all the
time: Tommy Dorsey and Glenn Miller and Sammy Kaye--all the big names. I
believe the music building is where the old gym was.
P: And that is where they held the dances?

E: Yes, and they were formal.

P: You had to wear a long dress?

E: Yes, and the fraternity parties were always very dressy. My daughter
graduated [from high school] in 1972, and they had dressy parties. However,
when she went to college, it was more casual. They would sit around listening to
string bands and such. Emory [University in Atlanta, GA] and [the College of]
William and Mary [in Williamsburg, VA] never had big parties like we did. I guess
they never got back to that, though they have fraternity parties now.

P: Before I forget, I want to show you a clip. This is from the Alligator, and I
wanted to ask you if you remembered what that was all about.

E: I am sure that must have been when the skirt lengths dropped and they did not
like them. They wanted the short skirts--there is no doubt about it.

P: Do you remember that?

E: Do I remember the picture? Vaguely.

P: Well, they also picketed the town. There is this picture of the guys walking
around with the signs.









E: Oh, that is when the styles dropped and the dresses got longer.

P: What were they, midcalf, when they dropped? And before they had been just
below the knee, maybe?

E: Yes, and some of them even dropped a little longer than that. You can go
back and look in the encyclopedia in the styles and see how they were dropped.
But they were never real short, anyway.

P: No, they were never above the knee except during the 1920s.

E: Goodness, I guess my daughter must have been in the ninth grade when they
were really short.

P: Yes, the late 1960s and 1970s. We talked about homecoming and the rush
parties and the fraternity parties. What were some of the other big social functions
on campus that would be open to everybody, not just the sororities and
fraternities?

E: They had a military ball. At homecoming our skits were terrible. The sororities
and the fraternities would just think of something to do. [Today] you see these
wonderful [skits]. We did not have anybody special, just somebody to emcee. The
skits were just awful! You used what you had, and we did not have very much.
We did not have professional talent and no sets to speak of; [we would] just think
of something and go out on the field.

P: Yes. Do you remember Fall Frolics?

E: Yes, we had Fall Frolics and Spring Frolics, also.

P: Oh, they had it in the spring, also? Could you describe what they did?

E: Yes, those were big dances, also. You had to have a lot of nice dresses.

P: It sounds like it was expensive! Did a lot of women come down from FSU?

E: Yes.

P: Where did they house all of them when they came down?

E: Some of them, I am sure, were put in hotels. [Some of the Chi Omegas from
Tallahassee moved in with us for the weekend.] Of course, right after the girls
came they still had dances at the rec. center for high school girls, and the
University boys used to go there. A lot of university boys were dating local high
school girls.









P: They must have been mad when the University went co-ed. What would
couples do for a date? Where would they go in Gainesville?

E: Just to go?

P: Yes, if you just had a date on Saturday night.

E: You usually had a group. We rarely dated alone. You would go to the movies
and out to eat someplace. There were very few places to eat. Most [often we
would go to] a sandwich shop or a drive-in or someplace like that to see your
friends. Sometimes they would go to the fraternity house.

P: Most students did not have cars, right? So you had to walk where you were
going.

E: I think a lot of boys had cars. I do not remember dating anybody special that
did not have a car. I did date one boy who was a K A [Kappa Alpha Order] who did
not have a car, because I can remember walking home in a long dress with him.
But a lot of boys had cars. Of course, a lot of the boys who were not married had
been in the service, so they could afford cars.

P: Were there a lot of movie theaters in Gainesville?

E: No, there were three.
P: Really? And they each probably showed one picture, right?

E: One of them you did not ever want to go in to [because it] was so terrible.

P: Oh, really! You mentioned drive-ins, too. Was that included in that three?

E: No. I meant drive-in restaurants.

P: Oh, I thought you meant movies.

E: Not movies. There was a drive-in movie, the one that is still out on Hawthorne
Road that came in 1949 or 1950.

P: What were some of the favorite gathering places, like the drive-in restaurants
you were mentioning, that people would go to hang out?

E: There was Sandwich Park and Piggy Park.

P: What were those?

E: Those were restaurants that had drive-ins, or you could go inside. And Mac's
Drive-in that has, I think, closed very recently. They were on the Hawthorne Road.










P: So students would just go there and see who was there and hang out.

E: Yes. Sometimes there would be things going on over at the University that you
would want to see.

P: Was there plenty to do in Gainesville, or was there grumbling that there was
nothing to do?

E: No, nobody ever fussed about anything. They did not know any different.

P: Gainesville might have been a really big town to a lot of them?

E: That is right. It was a big town to me. But now you have a lot of people from
New York here in Gainesville who are used to all the plays.

P: Yes. Not as many out-of-staters back then. Did the women tend to have a lot
of dates since the ratio was so high, that there were so many men to women?

E: I suppose so, but I know that there were girls in my sorority who did not have
dates.

P: Really? I wonder why?

E: Oh, I do not think that they were girls that would have any dates anywhere.
You cannot ever say it is simply how somebody looks. Some girls like boys, and
other girls like them, but the boys are not interested. You cannot put your finger on
why. I had a six foot, three [inch tall] roommate from Arkansas.

P: Did she have trouble?

E: Yes.

P: I can imagine. I think she would today, too.

E: She was really tall.

P: Did people back then go steady, or did they kind of play the field?

E: A lot of couples went steady.

P: Was that kind of the norm, to go steady with someone after you had dated
them for a while?

E: Yes, if you like them.









P: What did that usually entail? Did they give you a pin if they were in a
fraternity?

E: Yes, they gave you some kind of pin. My husband and I went steady, and I
had his Sigma Chi pin. The president of the sorority had a Phi Delta [Theta] pin.
[She is] the girl who is pictured on the front of the yearbook sitting on the wall,
Betty Jo Wilson. She became Betty Jo Upchurch and was our first president. She
married Hamilton Upchurch, who is a state representative. They are divorced now,
but she had his pin. A lot of the girls never went steady, but most of them did. It is
like it is now. I dated around for a while.

P: You met your husband soon after you came here?

E: Well, actually there was a boy here that I had dated in high school, and I was
seeing a lot of him. Somebody else from Arcadia bet my husband he could not get
a date with me. (He says that winning that bet has cost him a fortune.) I
remember he stopped me on the stairs--like I said, he was older than I was--as I
left my logic class and asked me to go out, and we did. We went to a movie, and
after that I did not see much of him. [Then] a friend of mine from Arcadia was in a
bus accident and broke her back. She was in Alachua General [Hospital]. She
could not remember my number, but she remembered that Bill was a Sigma Chi,
so she called him to ask him to bring me to see her because he had a car. So he
started picking me up to go see her every night. We saw a lot of each other after
that.

[In 1970 approximately ten of us had a reunion here. I planned ahead and
arranged for our housemother, Mrs. Kirby Sutherland, to attend and surprise
everyone. My husband showed old movies of all of us. He spliced in partial nudes
from a reel he always told me came with his projector. We had a marvelous time.]
Because most of us graduated in 1950, that was our twentieth reunion. One of
our advisors told us that the things we would have been kicked out of school for
then were accommodated for now. You cannot believe how bad it is. They were
very strict.

P: What were some of the other rules that you had to abide by when living in the
sorority house?

E: Of course, nobody could ever come in drunk. We could not have any alcohol
in the house.

P: Did you have a lounge area or parlor in the front where the guys could come in
and sit?

E: Yes, we had a nice sitting room. I guess she did not have to, but the
housemother always met whoever we were going to date. I do not think that was
part [of her duties]--maybe it was something that she just wanted to do. She was a









Chi Omega, too. I bet we were the only one on campus that had a sorority sister
for a housemother. She was older, of course, and she was lovely.

P: Did you all go to her with your little problems?

E: Yes, a lot of people really went and cried on her shoulder. That helped a little
bit.

P: What did you call her?

E: Mrs. Sally, [pronounced "Mizz," the old southern way], Mrs. Sally [Kirby]
Sutherland. She was from Bartow.

P: But the guys could not be allowed up into the rooms during any time, right?

E: No, they waited downstairs.

P: You mentioned earlier that they could come and have dinner with you? How
did that work?

E: Well, you had to tell Mrs. Sally ahead so the cook could plan on it. I do not
think that anybody ever wanted them all of the time. I think that it was just sort of
there if you wanted to, because you really wanted to leave. You did not want to
stay with your sorority sisters all of the time.

P: So you would go out to eat sometimes. I know we have already talked about
classes a little bit, but I was wondering if we could try to get back. Do you
remember the very first day of classes?

E: Vaguely, yes. I remembertaking the logic class. I rememberthe Shakespeare
class that I had. I was taking some undergraduate courses in the English
department. The Shakespeare teacher, Dr. Archibald Robertson, was so
marvelous; I will never forget him. He was dynamic, and he always acted out
everything. He was just wonderful. I think I had a history class, but I cannot
remember what it was. I took private piano lessons from Dr. Claude Murphree. I
liked him, also.

P: Did the classes meet every day or on alternating Mondays, Wednesdays,
Friday?

E: I am sure they were alternating. Here we were on the semester system. In
Tallahassee they were on the quarter system. I lost a lot of credits when I
transferred.


P: Was UF a much bigger campus than Tallahassee?









E: Much bigger. I came from a small town, and I remember looking and thinking,
"No, I will never find my way around." But it was not [that difficult]. You can look
back and see how very small it was in comparison to today. [Looking at a picture],
that was the old cafeteria that burned. [Johnson Hall, where the Rathskeller
cafeteria was located, was destroyed by fire December 6, 1987. Ed.]

P: Right. Was that the main meeting place on campus?

E: Except the Florida Union had a little sandwich shop.

P: Was the Reitz Union there then?

E: There was one, but not that one. It was called the Florida Union. It was just a
small place, but they sold sandwiches. Of course, the College Inn was across the
street. They must have been here for years. There where sandwich shops
around.

P: So you could go out to eat somewhere if you did not have a car to go to the
drive-ins. Were you nervous that first day? Do you remember how you felt?

E: Oh, I am sure I was nervous, yes. You are always nervous the first day of
classes.

P: Do you remember how many other women were in your classes?

E: Well, when I was in undergraduate classes, of course, there were more than
when I went into pharmacy school. There were eight or ten in my pharmacy class.

P: Did Tallahassee have graduate courses?

E: I am sure they had a graduate school, but it was just in certain areas.

P: There was an article in the Alligator that told about where the bathrooms were
for the women. Apparently that was a problem, since they did not have a lot of
females before. But I am wondering if they put in new bathrooms in the fall.

E: No, I know they were not new. I never saw a new bathroom.

P: Was that a big problem, especially when you came in the spring?

E: No, I do not think it was ever a big problem, because there were professors
who were women, and there were bathrooms for them.

P: How many professors did they have that were female? Did you have very
many in your classes?









E: Not a lot. I would say the proportion was probably about like it was for women
students. But there were women professors. I had Dr. Loretta Fox, who was one
in the pharmacy school.

P: A woman professor in pharmacy? I thought maybe they must have been in the
English department and places like that where women have traditionally been. I
was wondering about organizations on campus, like student government, clubs,
and things like that. Did they allow the women into those organizations?

E: Yes. In fact, I was invited to run on a ticket one time because I was a girl, but I
did not run.

P: What was it for?

E: Vice-president of the student body. Somebody who was running for president
thought, "If I can only get this girl on [the ticket]." Later, I do remember there was
some girl running, but I do not remember if she won or not. Judge Crews was
president at one time, and he was excellent. He was older, too.

P: How come you decided not to run? Did you just not want to do it?

E: I did not want to do it, and I did not really think they wanted me because of my
ability. They wanted me because I was a girl.

P: And you resented it.

E: I certainly did. They did not get the other girl to run, either.

P: All of you figured out what they were after?

E: We certainly did. Later on there were girls who ran.

P: Did the girls ever run for president?

E: President was for guys. Girls ran for secretary.

P: Some things never change. So Student Government did allow the women in,
but there was also something called the Women Students' Association, right?
E: Yes, that started when the women came.

P: And what was the purpose of that group?

E: I guess it was to make life easier for the women.


P: In what ways?









E: Well, to start building some dormitories for girls.

P: Yes, I understand there was a feeling, at least on the part of some of the men,
that the WSA was encroaching on Student Government. Do you remember that?
[Do you remember] what the arguments against it were?

E: Well, it was such a small group, I really do not see how they could have felt like
they were losing a whole lot. There was just a such a small group.

P: Who started that organization, do you know? Was Dean Brady active on it?

E: I am sure she was. She may have started it. She was a very outgoing lady,
and she probably thought we needed it.

P: How long did that group last?

E: I would say probably until after I had graduated, and then they made the
honorary for women. Savant was really the honorary for women, like they had
[Florida] Blue Key for men. At that time Savant was just for women.

P: When did that start?

E: That must have been sometime in the 1950s, around 1955.

P: That was after you already graduated, then.

E: Yes. But that was a women's organization for quite sometime.

P: Why did Blue Key not let the women into that organization?

E: That was a men's organization. Now, see, Savant is for men, too.

P: Were they first to finally go co-ed?

E: I think they probably chose to do that. Of course, that was after I was out of
school. The Blue Key had always been mostly for law students, but today it is for
everybody.

P: Right, a lot of business school people.

E: When my son Jimmy joined Savant I said, "What! Are they permitting men in
Savant?" I did not even realize that they had changed.
P: What about other organizations, like pharmacy society or agricultural society?
Did they allow women?

E: Yes, they did. I am sure the law school did. There was a pharmacy auxiliary.










P: Did they allow women in before this university actually went co-ed?

E: Yes. Of course, there had always been women here in pharmacy, as well as
in law and architecture. All of the colleges that were not at FSCW [Florida State
College for Women] always accepted women. Quite a few local women, I think,
probably chose those professions because they were from Gainesville.

P: And they wanted to go to UF so they could live at home.

E: Maybe they could not afford to leave, and they chose a convenient major.

P: Do you remember going home on weekends?

E: Oh, yes, on holidays and spring break.

P: How did you get home if you did not have a car?

E: Oh, I always had a ride.

P: How did you find them? You did not hitchhike, did you?

E: No, I knew everybody who was from the same county, and they knew me.
Somebody always asked if I wanted a ride home with them, so I would just get a
ride that way.

P: How long did the trip take?

E: Now we are three and a half hours away, and that is closer than we ever were
because now you can take the interstate to Bradenton and go into this little county.
It must have taken us at least six or seven hours then.

P: Yes, the roads were not as good then, I am sure.

E: I even rode back one time on a motorcycle. My husband (we were engaged at
the time) had a motorcycle, but I usually rode home with his brother. My husband
convinced my mother that his brother was a terrible, careless driver--he really is;
he still drives like a maniac--and that I would be much better off on that motorcycle,
so I rode on the back of the motorcycle. We had to stop in Ocala for a movie
because I was really was exhausted. We did not even have face masks, and on
Paynes Prairie you ate the bugs, they were so bad. That was the only trip I ever
took on a motorcycle.
P: First and last?
E: [I] almost left him for good.

P: Were a lot of students able to utilize the railroad system when they would go?










E: Sometimes. I think probably Miami students would usually pick up people and
give them rides. But they were numerous. We had quite a few Miami students.

P: Were you able to go home on the weekends very much if it took that long to
go?

E: Sometimes. My folks always had a beach house, and we would try to go
there.

P: Did you take your friends down with you sometimes?

E: Yes. One roommate stayed several weeks one summer.

P: Did you ever attend summer school?

E: Yes. I always liked summer school.

P: Why?

E: Because you memorized material for such a short time. There is a lot of it, but
you do not have to remember it as long. I am really good at memorizing quickly,
so I always loved it. Of course, I always forgot just as quickly, but I could always
make better grades in the summer.

P: That is funny.

E: Everybody hates it. I know they say, "Oh, it is so concentrated." But I just
hated the semester because you had to remember all of that over Christmas. If I
could just learn something quickly, then it was easier for me, so I liked summer
school.

P: Did it run from June through August, or do you remember?

E: There were two sessions, I think, just like there are two sessions today. I think
we got out around the first of June, and summer school started two or three [weeks
later]. We had time to go home, anyway, because there was a break between
[sessions] and a break before and after.

P: So you still got a little bit of vacation time in, also.

E: The sorority houses were open, and they took in students who were not
sorority girls during the summer because they needed to.
P: Do you remember how many classes you would take during the summer
school?









E: Just a few--one or two. Of course, in pharmacy school you have so many labs.

P: Oh, right, you were taking the technical courses.

E: Oh, labs are terrible. You just take so many hours and waste so much time. It
is not like academic courses.

P: Did you take summer school because you had lost credit hours when you
switched?

E: I did lose a lot of credit hours, and I also took extra courses that I really did not
need. I did not take all pharmacy courses; there were some courses I took simply
because I wanted to take them. I was not in a big hurry to get out of school.

P: You were enjoying yourself. Did you ever work while you were on campus?

E: I worked at Florida Theater for a short time at the concession stand, and I
worked over at the art school modeling for a short time.

P: Oh, really. That sounds interesting. What did you have to do?

E: Just sit there and let them draw your picture. It was an easy job.

P: It sounds like it. Could you study while you were over there?

E: No, you could not. The reason I happened to get in was that Bill's older
brother was in art school, and he asked me to come on over. I did not have to do
anything but sit there, so that was an easy job.

P: Yes, it sounds like it. Was that like, perhaps, College Work Study now, where
you have to be able to show that you have financial need and then they say that
you can have a job?

E: No.

P: There was not anything like that then?

E: I did not have any financial need.

P: You just did it for pocket money?

E: Yes, I just did it for fun.
P: Do you remember if any of your friends ever had to work on campus to help
pay their rent?
E: Yes. We did have some girls in the sorority who had to have financial
assistance. I think we had more scholarships; there really was no financial aid.









You could get a scholarship of some kind and apply for that.

P: Did any of them ever work on campus to help [pay their way]?

E: Yes, there were some girls who worked in the library, but it was really a regular
job, though. I mean, when you took a job on campus it was not like taking one
part-time somewhere. You had to be there regularly. It was hard.

P: Then they would work through the whole year, and they did not really get to go
home over summer.

E: Oh, I think they got to go home on summer break because classes were
closed.

P: Oh, right, so the library would be closed.

E: Yes, the buildings closed.

P: I am curious about the sorority house. I was wondering if the Chi O's went out
and bought their house. Is that right?

E: No, I think they rented while I was there. They built a house later.

P: How did you all finance that? I have not been in a sorority, so I do not know
how that works.

E: National, of course, raised the money, and the local alumni helped. In fact, we
had advisors who set the rules down and told us what to do; our housemother did.
They made money off of our room and board.

P: They did?

E: From our room and board, yes. I do not remember how much, but I do know
that you could room somewhere else that was somewhat cheaper.

P: Really? Was it because they where paying off a mortgage?

E: Well, I am pretty sure they were not buying it in 1948. I do not even remember
where the other sorority houses were.

P: They were not close by?

E: They were so much smaller that they did not need any big houses.

P: Oh, were Chi O's the largest group?









E: Yes, ten active and ten pledges.
P: How big were the other groups?

E: That was the maximum; you could not have over that amount. I had told you
that there were really only three active Tri-Delts who lived in the house. I do not
know how many pledges they had in the house. In the yearbook there are fourteen
Tri-Delts, ten K D's, fourteen A D Pi's, and nineteen Chi O's pictured.

P: So the groups were really quite small. I am surprised.

E: We had the biggest one. They would only allow you to have so many. That
was the maximum. You could not have over twenty activess and pledges
combined in 1947].

P: But why do you suppose the other groups were not able to fill their quota?

E: Well, I think some of them did, but I do not know which ones they were. I am
sure some of them did.

P: I am just surprised, because it seems like more women would have wanted to
rush.

E: Not everybody wants to join a sorority. Not everybody wants to live in a house
with a bunch of girls.

P: Now, if they could live in a frat house. ...

E: No, they would rather have their room somewhere else. There are a lot of
rules. The girls who were not in a sorority house did not have rules like we did.

P: Yes, Mrs. Glicksberg mentioned something about that. She said it was so
different from FSCW because there were a lot of girls living in the dorms.

E: Dorms were like that.

P: Off campus they did not have any rules, unless someone put some on them
wherever they were living, so they felt free.

E: Well, I always had rules.

P: Did you live in a dorm at FSU?

E: Yes.

P: And did they have the same type of deal?









E: They had rules.


P: Curfew?

E: You signed in and signed out. In the sorority house you did not have to sign in
and sign out because they knew who you were.
P: And there were not as many girls probably as there were in the dorm rooms.

E: Right. Our housemother know us all personally, and she locked up.

P: I am sure everybody was in.

E: But I am also sure if I had been late she would have let me in.

P: Did you have a place to study in the sorority house?

E: Yes, we had a quiet time. Like I told you, we all slept in these sleeping areas,
but then there were dressing rooms in the house where you had your chest of
drawers with your clothes. Your roommates were really the ones who you shared
your clothing room with. Everybody slept together on the porches, except for the
president, but then there were three different places where people dressed and
kept their clothes.

P: So you had two rooms in a way.

E: You only went to the sleeping porch when you were ready for bed. You would
sneak in very quietly so you would not wake everyone.

P: Did they have lights out rules, too, for the time everyone had to be in bed
asleep?

E: No. Some people stayed up and studied. It was quiet. But you had to be
quiet, not necessarily for study time, because after 11:00 it had to be quiet.

P: I would like to ask you about the student union. I am sure you have been to
the one that we have now. How does it differ from when you were in school?

E: Do you mean the Reitz Union?

P: I am assuming that the Reitz Union that you were talking about was not the
student union, or was it?

E: I think that was the student union. I do not remember a separate student
union. I do not even know what a student union is; is that just a building where
student government is? I thought that was in the Reitz Union.









P: Yes. What building was it that was called the Reitz Union before they built that
one, or was it the same building?

E: No, it was a small building before they built the big one. I am sure it was not
called Reitz because he was president later. They must have called it the Florida
Union.

P: Yes, I think that is what it was called. What sort of facilities did they have?

E: Reading rooms and things like they have at this one, but they were much
smaller.

P: And a place to eat?

E: Yes, they had a cafeteria of sorts.

P: Did they ever show movies there?

E: I do not remember. [There was] no Rathskeller [a sandwich shop in Johnson
Hall] or anything like that.

P: I am assuming you studied pharmacy. Is that what you actually got your major


E: Yes.

P: What year did you graduate?


E: I was married in the summer of 1950, and I had one more course to take. I
took it and graduated in February of 1951.

P: Was your husband still in school when you got married?

E: Oh, no, he graduated in 1949 and was planning on going down to South
Florida to work with his father, [but he decided to stay]. He had had a little
newspaper down in Arcadia, so he applied for a job with the Gainesville Sun. He


did not want to leave me up here with all the good-looking boys.
work.


He decided to


P: And you were already engaged at that time?

E: Yes. He went to work in 1949 at the Gainesville Sun in the back shop setting
type.

P: Was he a journalism major? Did he become a reporter later?









E: No, he went into advertising; that is what he was doing when we were married.
I think there were maybe four people in the advertising department. When he
became advertising director there were three other people.

P: Where did you live after you got married while you were still in school?

E: Well, I only had three hours left. There had previously been a married
pharmacy student who had a house, not on the Hawthorne Road, but down in that
area. He had used our cocker spaniel to breed with his dog, and they had a litter
of puppies. When he graduated he said we could rent his house, so that is where
we stayed. We were there fora year, I guess, and then we bought a house of our
own.
P: But you lived there for a year. Do you remember what the married housing
was like? Did you ever think about doing that?

E: Well, of course, my husband was through with school and I only had three
hours, and I could not go to married housing because I had not been in the service.


P: You were not a full-time student?

E: Right, and I had not been in the service.

P: Oh, you had to be in the service back then in order to be in married housing?

E: I think all the married housing was for service people. It was called Flavet
Village. Yes, it was all for service people.

P: I saw pictures of it in the yearbook, and they also had a trailer park.

E: They were not prepared at all for the students who were coming.

P: They had to hire a lot of extra professors.

E: They moved all of their temporary houses, you know. I imagine they moved a
lot of those from [Camp] Blanding, because that was the base.

P: So you graduated in December of 1950?

E: No, in February of 1951. We were still on semester.

P: Oh, that is right. So how many years was it that you were in school, then?
E: I was actually in school for five years. Then I only lacked that one course, so I
took it to graduate. That is why I did not graduate in 1950.

P: Were you ever able to use your pharmacy background in a job situation?










E: After I graduated? Yes.


P: You worked as a pharmacist? Oh, great!

E: I worked at Florida Pharmacy. You had to intern a year before you could get
your license, and they would let you intern some while you were in school. If you
did not, you had to graduate and then intern. I worked at Florida Pharmacy for a
year to get my license, and I was working ten- and twelve-hour days. The store
closed at 11:00 p.m., and then you waited on the delivery man to come, which
sometimes was 12:00.
I stayed at Florida Pharmacy for a few months after I had my license. Then a
doctor in town, Dr. Henry Blank, told me Canova's Prescription Center by the
hospital needed a pharmacist. He said, "Why not go over and apply for a job
there," so I finally did. I went to the prescription center and stayed there until 1970.
They closed at 8:00 p.m. and they were closed on Sundays. Florida Pharmacy
stayed open seven days a week.

P: So that was a big improvement.

E: Oh, yes. One day I could go to work at 1:00 and stay till 8:00, and the next day
I would work from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.

P: Did you enjoy it?

E: Yes. I made a lot more money working fewer hours, and it was a prescription
center, which was better than a store. We had food at Florida Pharmacy, and I
always hated to smell that food cooking. It is just awful to smell something cooking
all the time.

P: Well, I think I have pretty much covered what I wanted.

E: You came well prepared.

P: I think I have got everything here that I wanted to ask you. Did you have
anything else that you have thought of that you would like to add?

E: No, nothing I can think of.

P: Okay. Well, I really appreciate this.

E: It has been fun. I really enjoyed it; I enjoyed talking to my roommate from
Palatka. We had a good time reminiscing.


P: It was good that you called her to get some more ideas.




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