Interviewer: "Button Project"
Interviewee: Wendell Holmes
Date October 10, 1975
I: The following questions are asked to find out how well the Voting Rights Act of 1965
has helped blacks take part in Florida politics. What year were you first registered
I: Was this right after demonstration and voting petition?
H: This was shortly after, but I had just come out of the military service. It was 1957
I: What year were you first eligible to vote?
H: Well, when I became, that's when-you call, first when I became twenty-one years of age at
that time, There were problems with blacks registering to vote at the time, so I really
became eligible to vote in 1942.
I: How were you registered -- local registration board or federal examiner?
H: Federal examiner.
I: You could....
H: I could not register here in 1942,
I: Did the local registrars ever turn you down when you applied to register?
H: Yes and no. It....
I: Have voter registration drives been held in the district in which you hold office?
I: Could you name some of he-organizations, local and national, that held registration
H: Well, the local NAACP has done it. SCOC has done it, There was a subcommittee of the
Citizen's Committee for Better Education that's done it, I think the Urban League has
participated and then HOPE, it's an offshoot of the ,0/*) j}// I -T/b has also
I: When were these voter registration drives held -- before 1960; 1960-1964; 1965-1969;
H: Well, at some point, all of those years, now, if my memory serves me well,
I: How successful were these voter registration drives?
H: Well, it depended on, I suppose it depended on the organization and how vigorously
they would pursue. Some were, I think, largely very successfulv/lAer-4 f .
I: Please ~rek-how important you think each of the following items are in preventing blacks
from registering to vote in your area? Economic dependence on whites -- it's very
important, not important or fairly important?
H: I'd safely feel the dependence on whites would be-- in this day and age -- I'd classify
it as fairly important. I don't think that by and large you have to choose his ffe-b -
choose his But...,
I: What about fear of physical violence from whites -- that's very important, fairly
important..., i 4- a'Ls roLOp
H: In this community I would say no, no,' in'-some others I'd say that, well we might have
a very serious, in fact.
I: blacks have been afraid of physical abuse,
H: I'd say in some of your very small rural areas, this kind of thing, from what I have
heard, butt in Jacksonville that has no
I: I was reading some things that you had done for the city of Jacksonville at home. I
saw that in your earlier career, you were threatened by the Klu Klux Klan, Have you
ever had any other threats like that?
H: Well, I've had individuals, threats of one kind or another, but not any organization,
I've had white men.
I: Do you know whether the people in power was issuing something?
I: Surrounded by,...
H: No. No. Th7 s
I: Yeah, right. I agree. What about complicated registration forms? -airly important,
very important, not important?
H: Well, it could be. I think it's very important, really, that the registration forms
not be too complicated becauseas a matter of fact the practicality is that we have
a number of relatively unlettered black people, who simply are not--ab-e to cope with
a very complicated form. So I say it's very, very important that the registration
form be as simple as it possibly can be,
I: What about poor registration hours -- that's very important, fairly important, not
H: Well, for black men,-L-mean- it's very important, because black people, generally, have
to leave them the They have to, a matter of hours, does have a very
serious impact on their capability to get into whatever place it would be.
I: What about registration drives -- they're not held often enough?
H: No, they really aren't. I think that there are some of us who ought to make registration
a today. -We-al- o ______
I: Indifference of blacks to voting -- that's very important, fairly important or not
H: It's very important. We could have more black elected officials, t~-5t, there were
not the apathy that seems to prevail in the black community.
I: What do you think causes this apathy -if ?
d isii lsIon &
H: Disenchantment and being disstllu F1 ied with the system. It's still a matter of fact
that blacks and women both believe that they can in fact, their vote is going to
have any 4 i-pQet on the political system afterward, and they haven't become registered.
That one vote can, in fact. So I think that's the primary thing, We talk to people and
they're just saying, why, why bother? They'll do what they want to do. That's generally
the that you hear, so just generally disenchanted,
I: Do you think there is going to be some kind of way to ameliorate that condition?
H: Constantly hammering on it and pulling up the benefits, really ,
This would educate the population -ir involve/ change.
I: The following questions are aksed to gather information on the election campaigns of
black elected officials in Florida. Were you able to campaign freely? That is, were
you threatened in any way in your qcmpaign?
H: Well, I was....
I: Even in the early years, early....
H: In my campaign I was treated, I had reasonable aP4ndt.-hi s and when other
candidates were invited to speak in general, I was invited. There may have been some
small organizations that excluded me but in general
I: Were you handicapped by a lack of campaign money or not -- yes or no?
H: Yes, in the first, in my first election I was handicapped. It wasn't easy, it wasn't
too easy to get, but I was able to get enough to make a successful campaign, but it
worked out. We
I: Did you get most of the offering from private citizens?
H: Oh, yes. All of it.
I: Why did you decide to run for office?
It was a community decision, selected by Pi 10ic 0 1 selected by a group of concerned
citizens or whatever?
H: Well, after consolidation and the present structure of our local government was thoroughly
in effect, it meant thatschool \i; member had to be elected from our school board
district. I had been very, very active in this matter of education Then some of my
friends encouraged me to seek the seat.
I: Uh huh.
H: And I didn't mind it. I wanted to do it.
a number of my riefdS together organized a group to try to
look from outside of the school board for the city s4i-tt-i-on and whether I might be more
effective as a member of the school board and they towards me but I
I: To which political organization do you belong to -- the Democrat, Republican or other?
I: What were the two or three most important issues on which you campaigned?
H: Well, I think I used the campaign theme, "A Strong Voice for Equality in Education" or
something like that. That's a paraphrase. That's not exactly what it was about. But
H: it was something of that nature and my whole campaign was built around being certain that
every youngster in this town, no matter what his, you know, what his race and all back-
ground was, was given the same opportunity for whatever there was to available to the
I: Do you think this issue was the main problem facing blacks in your community. Yes or no?
-+h e -+h roe s
H: Yes. We were still at that time in petrol of trying to desegregate the school system, but
we still are and it's a matter of practicality even though we have shifted some people around
but the was pertinent.
I: What do you think about busing to achieve racial equality?
H: Well, it's, I think it admittedly busing is not the most desirable method of achieving
quality education. I say, well, I say that I may be questionable that that may be the
most desirable method but right now no one has come up with a better method. As of this
moment, I haven't and the people who have studied the situation throughout this country have
not come up with a better method of doing it and, of course, I would say that this matter
of the hullabaloo about busing substitute for a anyway. Because people
aren't supposed, people aren't concerned so much about the busing because the bus is
something that's been with this country in the educational system almost throughout its
historyas far as the bus is concerned. And then when I look around and I see these
so-called Christian Academy buses, ten, fifteen miles away from where the school is situated
picking up youngsters to take back to that school, then you krowlit's clear: busing isn't
the problem; it's what happens at the end of that bus route that's the problem and at the
end of that bus route means there are some blacks and whites who are going to be .Fyin-
and a lot of folks still don't want it to happen.
I: The old school is still the claim, strong.
H: So busing (in't the issue, but until such time as some mobile, some more effective alterna-
tive can be, we are going to have to bus because the mere fact blacks are out of, the
whites are in a school means there is going to be some concern with that school. I mean
it's clearlthe way that that is.
I: Boston signifies that beautifully,
H: Yeah, yeah. Well, talk to your black principals. Talk to any black principal who was
principal of a school before the court mandated the white youngsters to be moved into
those schools and ask them what happened before those white youngsters were there and
what happened after they got there in terms of equipment and supplies for that school.
Yes, ask any of them. er
(Do you believe in total integration or total equality out of' ,ca.-tiQn .. stom?
1 By that, I mean, do you believe in just having separate but equal or even if you wanted to
(integrate you could by choice, freedom of choice. o y
H: Separate, separate belief, you know, just/i( it is separatist
it will be inherently unequal because of our system.
I: We'll move on to section C. These questions are asked to determine some of the conditions
h4et-4hee enabled blacks to:iwin office in Florida, How were you elected -- at large or
H: By district.
I: How many people are in your district?
H: Approximately 28,000.
I: What percentage of the population in you district is..
I: ..,what percentage of your population is black?
H: In the two districts, I'd say sixty-five, seventy percent.
I: Of 28,000.
I: About what percentage of blacks of voting age in your district are registered to vote?
H: What percentage?
I: Of that sixty-five percent.
H: I don't know. I really don't. But I've been so far out of touch with that kind of statis-
tic, I hesitate to answer because I, although I have been subjected to the elective
process four times since consolidation, I ran one time, but three times I pn onopposed and
I really had no reason to look at the percent of ba+ek -vetes
I: What are the reasons why you haven't been opposed in your last three campaigns?
H: I don't know. ( lai -er Other than the fact that it's hon P4'/
-py and certainly __ 'e suggest that perhaps in general
the constituents are reasonably satisfied with my performance and al-t~e'gh et-k keel
perhaps might feel that I haven't done so many things wrong than I have
I don't know, but the fact is that 11/i 0_1_'-_6a_6e -S
I: Do you think you got any votes from whites?
H: I would think so. -' d wul d Lii,, ,ttrl-lthey- I would believe that my approach towards
this problem is such that people who are objective to an issue, doesn't put up with.
I: In the election in which you won office, how many opponents did you have?
H: Oh, I don't feeal-. Seven. I know it was seven. There were
at least five, five or six of us, about six of us I believe in that first election.
I: What percentage of the, what let me rephrase it, .heo many were white and how many were
H: All were black,
I: What percent of the total vote did you get?
H: Oh, it was really roughly a les-ded thing.
I: You mean that you had more Cre en- more outstanding than the other opponents.
H: Well, I don't know, I don't know about that. I related. I think my, well, I'm certain
that my credentials at least were equal to. noe- +e lephe- r;;) n ban iroWA4
I: These Auot-in are asked to determine how well black officials in Florida have been
able to benefit those they represent. In what way do think you have helped blacks in your
district by holding office? Please discuss it.
H: Well, I hold, in general, the mere fact that a black being / o-eff'ie being a member of a
governmental p r should O if he's worth anything at all. The mere fact
that he's there is going to have some impact on what happens to these black institutions
because:there are things that just won't happen that could be to the detriment of the blacks
because he's sitting there. Just by his mere presence, that's the first step. I mentioned
that of course I think be ct uspea equite different .t-e
quspeak to mewqw"te dif trite
H: I think because I've been to school that I have been able to insure that those
blacks in the system, of course, teachers and students ______that
would have been the case and I'm not looking forward, I'm certainly glad, Ther have,
been a lot of things that I have not been able to do that I wish that I could b~I b 4od
I'm still working on it. But I'm convinced that 44et-be, or example, Duval county is
I hVnf bcr of C Ouf l)$
not suffered the kind of negative approach to black principals that ha ,,- el .r ,r.'l ,
We have almost the same number of black principals now that we had before- -'
Maybe more, possibly. But who are we? We are a few short, but there were some schools
which were closed, black schools which were closed. Over all the percentage is substantial-
A 4"n rn i z
ly the same. I ._-___ _ __ timwe had more black, i -w-s
I__-- 1 11 ovhr.
ee-y, black high school principals ,-, al ove the state of Florida.
hcre h: + he;rer? __ t'cnes
SRight here, n terms of We have.. hpp hv t-the* __
a n I -h e '.tg here./r __ __,_-. .
and there is i bou / H ; th- t'I "thr, And you are hardtput to find black high school
teachers fe-psFn-ezpeis They have Phased out,
t4- mny im. t t .... t i.... high schools in this state.
I: What do you think caused that?
H: Well, it's...
H: ...no. It's7lack of credentials d.ability. It's just the fact the white /Vi1iredC
that black people can do Y ( ll-1 Ld [ ll ,-- I see no other
way to look at it. There never was a -.ee~-f taking the black principal and
kick4.y him into an "ed i'nt.eto job somewhere, you see, and then-4t- white principal I1)
C-r)l+hen brir2O ilqn
th .hi -... 'i--- t-- ,eb assistant principal. Ask them about it.
in some rather innocuous admiRe4ts-fe,-w job, you see, and then_____ i
with a black assistant. '
I: What are some of the things/that you are working on that you haven't yet succeeded in
H: Well, one of the main things that I have been concerned about is developing a really
viable alternative to A suspension. thn 1~dinl-b1isus ltp'irie / ioo high. We have
H: been able to-get- the expulsion rate down considerably and I'm,.I'm convinced that the fact
that two of us constantly he"dHe had a real impact in getting the expulsion rate down
and I at least, initiated, initiating the beginning of what we call the alternative schools,
h i+- we C a- I I
school -. Lt--_-_ e, we have_ n alternative school
See back in 1960, 1970, '71; early '72,a little wholesale expulsion of 4eo.es just for no
reason. -Jct for '- oo I sat there and seen black kids being subjected to expulsion and
tfhs was criminal of-ttmM but I was able to do something with
^h eiep '-I- been
that. But I, another thing that I have been working on very hard and the9q Z j- is to
try to get more top-level black administrators in the system.
even further with the suspension rate of blacks. Those are two
04( a tr5 et o YC (0 P on0
/all of us and this is not appe+ited to me alone, but all of us are trying to do something
+4r1eAro: seems +o dee Noraedsso
aboup reading, writing and arithmetic that --
I: n that was an -g-dependent result due to the fact that we didn't get the proper
facilities, the fact that we didn't get the proper facilities in
H: Well, the there are a whole lot of reasons for that, a lot of reasons-eeme Trom homes of
disadvantaged where not exposed to a lot of things: en vclopedias, parents who have to
..neeaerl/ yoe'I prIYO Ly nd
.Alt'o-aiknoww.. ftL that children of black professionals measure up to,
certainly to the average because of more exposure. Thlrei e a
This is something, as you Ceepe-ae rS -e e- rS t h direct relationship
between beC Co0M i C mc 5sc4w o+- ras and hbw well he achieves in school, you
I: What do you think about some education administrators wh/Adifferent bookssay that they be-
lieve the state should run the education system at a minimum budget. They shouldn't put
all the state funds toward education cause education, it doesn't matter how well the facili-
ties are, how beautiful the buildings are. What's more important is the environment of the
student from which e come from. What do you think about that?
H: the same with the, don't put money into the e dupational system because
or is .5o 1 Q bpe-_ --
enough ego would be to do about the environment that you came/tfrom one s LldL yu, upgrade
the environment at the same time you minimize the environment, sw4th--to I'm not
1: What I meant is you take this parallel, You take Harvard and how it have been t+he meis-4n-
flueidi I w i ii n You know, they have some t poe~a p ca4s come out 4tht-
s chool-s e acono ic S,\ an fl
ct.mdeits that you know for medicine, frr law, what they were saying ,s that doesn't, the
school, a child is going to learn any way if he can write,A The most important thing is his
h s u p br ig in every-h ;fi' ai ._ .
environment. Where he comeSfrom i the th~ig that -,_.
H: Well, the problem if you're talking to Harvard, Harvarde S ollOgn a whole lot of
a lot of other money other than the ability, you see, It just happened that the school was
.+U5eb; Iqdin are 011 "+hq+-
one of the oldest schools in the country. I'm not so sure thatJ ilc/ -e p hi-a~nhropy.
They are oldAe cte di $ IdTted -----*bt hey spen4 a lot of money to edue Lie
S__ faculty, red ced pupil-teacher ratio. The buildings alone is not wr
paes m C. They 1. a lot of, The fact is that a lot of
schools ng e more facilities and a lotAthem do deServ _-- --
but certainly I think that, I would teed~ __ because of
I: A bright kid is going to learn anything.
H: Well, I bright kid will. A bright kid will. There's no, there's no about
that because if you can get him minimum prizes for you've got some
aeg' t ei4-\y be lok-
average in there and you've got some 5_ __ -4ew averages and you've
got some even more below averageAthat have to be given some push and some Inc'4;L so
yo have to also think about those that are not _______. e
I: What, if anything has prevented you from doing a better job, especially in regards to
be neiT i )ng
beoafi4-ttilg blacks in your district?
H: Lack of support at the board level. Lack of support at the board level and "+r
-be cs ;s4c+ I eve- h Qs IC-
-- IOf course the board could do it. The board has the/,ltimate
say about the policy. It sets the policies. If I had additional support in those
+h ere 0ee re V,6e
matters about which I have concern and on the boardAthought likewise,
then they would
think the following i+em ,
I: Please rate how important you .- 4-ns are in preventing you from
doing a better job bcn ef4tt-4H blacks. Office has no real authority which he holds --
that's very important, fairly important, not important.
H: Read it again.
I: The office....
H: No, the first part, the first part.
I: Please rate how important you think the following items are in preventing you from
doing a better job be1Fic Ling blacks. The office has no real authority -- that's
very important, f iry important, not important.
H: Well, I'm not sure because as a board member the office does have
authority to the extent that I have a vote on the board in setting policy.
I: So the office that you have, it has some importance.
I: Outvoted by white officials -- is that very important,
fairly important, not. important?
H: Well, in mine, in mine, it's very important because I have to be one, have, I have one
set authority that's vested in that board.
I: So you can seee r eI'y r'
iNot enough revenue available- is that very important, fairly important, ot important?
H: Well, it's, I'd say, "- :- t-' s fairly important here because the problemsAare created
because of lack of revenue are not limited to having the impact on blacks. I mean that's
;n 4-4Q syTs +er/
across the board but it happens that Well, for
example, there are certain positions that you might have been able to create and fund
had there been, had there been more money
I: What about unfamiliar with administrative duties -- is that very important, fairly
important, not important?
H: Th.e s important- 4 a person *t know something about the administrative possibilities
in the .I guess you are still talking about the fact of my
not being 4cm e i.rr Is that what your saying?
I: Well, yes. WhatI am saying it preventing you from doing a better job with blacks.
I deia'-.-aan_ bitt-your duties, your administrative duties.
H: .I've been on the board long enough that if I didn't know it
at first I'm reasonably certain I / O
I: What about lack of cooperation from the whites -- is that very important, not important
or fairly important?
IT' Ler tpordon+,
H: __ ._ Cause having able and having been unable to elect on the
-board of er+4i' ia c'-. That bugs me because it's very important in some given
situations \ how e c 4-i';v hvEz been/
I: What about the lack of cooperation from t~e blacks -- that's very important, fairly
60+Q- 'nex,+- <, w'I ha+ 4,0 you /'*- -.,*, I
important or not inportant? I znfreal (
H: Oh, L'. kinJ m Lunt. 4t~L4 ____ecause I have notAhad
that as a serious problem but I say it's fairly important because certain things that
could benei," all blacks in the system. If this-ae been
about attracting certain blacks who produce some things. For example, push certain
issues and fail to do it because of
I: What about lack of cooperation from state officials -- that's very important, fairly
important, not important?
H: Oh, I'd say it's very, well.... I haven't had any need to call upon the state hOiV/
[.! .'.. ./,l in Onsc c 'r .4-o h e ir>S "O n <-_*
I've had __so tkat- r samt"-ao rw iea i, tem. I would say fairly
I: What about lack of cooperation from federal officials -- is that very important, fairly
important, not important?
H: I would say not important because I have a because I
didn't agree with the court order The courts imposed too much
page 13 i yo 0 ers 1e o ^
H: of a burden_ You've got to live with it.
I: The court order, what did thi entail? + . .. I- i-r4 i cT l o I'-
H: Well, it __________bs- for -a4mest 14 fthe-e "o get anything oneS
ec get anything one
up to/five and then pick them up again. Probably at least we~t+&mie seven.
s o io s gae n e r a l l y.*. *n'j- L2 + r o u g f o u r
H: No, they are in their neighborhood school generally. One/ y e e through four.
In some they 4444-b- i in the fifth grade, not much The sixth grade
c~E~ br se in Cerners. Teyrm 0'be b sed v-o en4 grade cervrc r
they don't bus__ but over all. See after that,
maybe .Except that they are bused because of their
distance from the school but not~o.
I: Has criticism or lack of support from4-e blacl community, hincered you f-rom holding
office? This is/______._ that ,-- .ele you are a token in
government and have no real authority. y5 Os c f C
H: I don't think so
I: Do you t white officials treat you differently from other officials or not.ad.
le- they consider you the spokesman for blacks and are you able to raise only certain
H: I raise any issue that lies in my area of ability. I raise any issue. Ii/uppose that
there are those -t4ht would consider me to be somewhat of a spokesman for blacks in
my role 4n-4the school board/
I: Would they treat you any different from the rest of the officials? Of the white officials
H: Not overtly.
I: What services have you provided for blacks in your district that they did not have before
you took office? Could,4please give me some examples?
H: Most importantly
4@* I suppose
I: Have you been able to see that certain blacks..~administrators be hired in the education
H: Yeah, some of them have been hired in the education system
the lack of blacks in power,
I: Have you ever gotten federal funds through your district? +o -- ./ 1 bor'
H: Not directly, no. No I have not -t hnn
o, I/,7 ea L t bee n rek IV/ I ,
c., H ^&c %,, -w supportive in, the matter of k-et4e II' d .iJCS
ot i .. and so/ I* -'-dsay yes. federal funds by
-h;/n / way of the school system but
I: Okay. Has federal revenue sharing helped your district or not? Please explain.
H: I'm not sure whether it's been valuable federal, federal revenue sharing
money 4.A- 0 ip'(o*- but another area of __'
I'm not sure that
I: I was wondering about HEW 4- ey h e -* ir b adfr6w^,
I: Have there been any black protests, sit-ins, boycotts or riots in your city in the last
H: Two in the last ten years.
I: What were the issues involved?
H: Well, the 1965
I: Give me a
H: One,.one, one,
(*****NOTE: Tape becomes totally illegible at this point. It will clear up in a short
space but don't strain your brain trying to figure it out.)
H: Prar'" was an elected official and he was elected ?e rP-
-ten the school board had to select from to
provide for equipment and that very well may be the hardest of
some of them things that .1 would suspect
I: What about the 7; TocuOtlv;t ? Wiat -- it?
H: Well, it wasn't the ity of Jacksonville
sit-outs and/every child was staying out of school on
u We lost 5tqte money, We
public school system
H: also lost a
the entire state
We also lost some of the impact, federal impact
impTui t LdfL 1r you
Did he throw out a quota?
I really wouldn't
I: Also I read that you have gone to jail for several things.
H: Yeah, I
I: 4-hat were you deig- in jail I
H: Well, one time I was involved in a march and I was
it was part of
the -s- up there and then let's see, one time arrrg_
I was jsE:s f a protestl a school sit-out, I di-rete,
I: The following questions are asked to enable an assessment of the black politics in
Florida in general. Briefly, what is your opinion of Reuben, of Goyernor Reuben Askew.
4a ora b/ce po Iey
That is, do you think he has been fabeirabe in i9s-attitude and pI4icy towards blacks in
Florida or not? What is your opinion of other state officials and state representatives?
"- ~---- a ^7 d.
H: Well, my opinion is that Governor Askew is that/ think he has been, he has given more
fairness towards blacks, I think in Matter of fact, from
he has taken three of our more outstanding citizens and professionals
and which is a j4ighip.
He awarded/ H 4 her/ Judge Hatcher to the Florida Supreme Court and that's a real
and he's the first person in the southeast as far as blacks
provided an opportunity for local
There seems to be a lot more improve
Id pay ye but I suppose
concern toward blacks and
It? 7-hee r e//~o Q C,,
has to sort of bide his time. Very poor offees-
I think over all the man has indicated some
page 16 La-
I: What about other/representatives and s-ate officials -- are they being fair?
H: -N4-o Ii nOn pS /i" r L what they have done because there is a lot, there is
a lot of it publicized '_l_-_b _fress'-- but it appears that they are
learn some things and just off the top of my head I can't do it, do the kind of the
I can't recall so, it's a better situation still
I: Do you think that winning and holding office in Florida has been worth the effort?
H: Yes, I would say so. I -epee6-mebody else but it's
worth the effort because and not necessarily
I: These questions are asked to compile an overall group profile of black elected officials
in Florida. No individual answers will be reported. Type of office held.
H: School board member.
I: The date first elected.
I: The date you be+a office.
I: Number of times ran for office.
I: Uh huh.
H: Sixty-nine and because of the of-thr-erhaed I was subjected to-twe-
additional situations where I had to run but each of those I ran -PP0'sea I
didn't ~e4 run. It was a matter efmechanics of
I: Your age 2 18 to 29; 30 yeewr to 49; or 50 and above.
H: A bDve s5
I: Occupation before election.
I: Education -- through high school or
H: High school.
I: Salary received from your elected position.
H: No, we get more ------------ We cr hre e s-rtin the state of Florida.-
$6,600 through $7,;00.
H-\.ve you. e/ver-+rie
I: Are you Zging to try- to eradicate that?
H: I was one of those who opposed paye4 school-board members
SJoeajt-' C-4e m c?- n'tW r-;ed
one of the.-I4 -ae more highly qualified
people, by virtue of not elngiI p q ; Since that time, though, which is now
H: Cause it costs a little money and that I think is discriminatory
T7he pfr schools/ihave a lot to offer but they certainly can't afford i+-bt
I: Were you active in the Civil Rights movement of the 1960 to 1966?
I: Church to which you belong.
I: Are you an official in your church? If so, what is your occupation, position?
H: Well, right now I'm chairman of the position that
I: Are there other community organizations or activities that you are involved in -- yes
H: I swear we've gotten along too many -
H: Well, I'm chairman of the board of OIC; I am secretary of
; I am president of ; chairman
of the board of directors of
I: Do you know any other black legislators in this area who have been in office since 1964?
H: Do L kino MI y / 4-, ers 1y
I: Yeah, "~/ +/ ers .
H: That have been in office since 1964. rgft? Okay-
z ; --)
I: You know, have been elected since, you know, 70....
H: Yeah, yeah, I know. in fact I know all of them that have been
elected in this area. Well, you have the senator who has been elected to
city councilman Terry, Terry Johnson,
I: Thank you for that very candid I n ervie &-'