Title: Carlton Smith
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Title: Carlton Smith
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FB 37A Side 1 Bridges

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S: I believe that's the, uh, yeah, I think it was.

I: And then you ran in '72 for the mayor?

S: Right.

I: And you lost that race?

S: I did.

I: And did you run again since then? Have you been on the council since then?

S: No, I haven't even ran again.

I: Okay. So you served from '70 to '72.

S: Right.

U: '70 to '72?

I: '70 to '72.

S: Well, when I resigned--I resigned just before election time about September

in '72 so I could run for mayor.

1: So you ran for mayor then.

S: And served the city council.

I: Uh huh. And you were a councilman prior to that time?

S: Yes.

I: Okay. We have a series of questions. We're looking--wewre actually part of

a project through the University of Florida interviewing all black elected

officials in the state of Florida in the last two years. We will use no

names in our study. It's anonymous. And no names of cities even.. So I

hope you'll feel free to be, you know, honest.

S: 41L :- can.

I: There's another project at the University of Florida called the Oral History

Project. They've, over a number of years now, have gathered interviews with

political figures as 5all as other figures in Florida and other states as

well. They would like to preserve these tapes for future use, by.scholars
It would
primarily.' / go into a special library at the University of Florida. They






FB 37A Sidel

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Bridges


I: would like to send you a transcript of the interview after it's typed up.

It may be a year or more since they're srec=0f behind. They'll send you

the transcript. You have a chance to make changes, delete portions, and

if you want, after reading it over, you can decide not to make it part of

the library at all, if you want to. They'll send you a release form at

that time if you would like to become a part of the library.

S: I understand.

I: And do you have any reservations about that at this time.

S: No, I don't.

I: Okay. Again, they will send you a transcript and you can make the decision

then, but we want some general indication of We have a

bunch of questions to ask you. First of all, we want to just ask you, in

terms of your own voting and so on, political participation, personally.

'First of all, what year did you first register to vote?

S: I'm guessing.

I: Approximately.

S: I'd say about 1953.

I: What year were you first eligible to register? What year were you 21?

S: Boy. That's right around, guessing now, around 1937 or '36, one of those.

I: Did the local registrars ever turn you down when you applied to register?

S: No.

I: Why didn't you register previously?

S: Well, I was in school and in the service and always on the go before then.

I: Uh huh. Up until 1953.

S: '53.

I: Okay. Were you a resident of Blountstown before 1953?

S: No, I was not.

I: Okay. So you registered here?






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S: Yeah.

I: In that year. Have voter registration drives been held in this area in the

city of Blountstown in the recent past?

S: Local.

I: Local?

S: Yeah. No one came in to, you know, sponsor anything, just locals. We always

try to get people to go up maybe two months before election time. Wt-- cr--v\

citizens go around and try to encourage people to go up and register.

IT There were no organizations outside the city that came in?

S: No, not here.

I: NAACP? Okay. Where were these drives, these local drives, held?

S: You mean what organization held them or what building?

I: Well, okay, what organizations and then where?

S: Well, it was a-we had what we called a Blountstown Improvement Association.

They held them over in the Boy Scout building. You know, they would talk

about it there then we'd have 30 people go around from home to home
We'd
and contact people. ,/ try to get them to go down there.

I: WFs this an attempt mainly to get blacks registered?

S: Yes, that was all.

I: What years were these held?

S: Well, for the last eight years, I know, each year, you know, say, the group we'd

talk about it about a month or two before the times the books are closed. ANd

some of them would go down and try to get people to go down to vote to register.

I: So it was over the last eight years?

S: Yes.

I: Almost every year. How successful were these registration drives?

S: I would say that they were about half successful. It was just hard to get

people to go--oh, they'd always have excuse about they had to go to work or






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S: didn't have any way to go. Then you'd tell them that you had a way to carry

them, and they'd say come back and you couldn't find them.

I: Bo you think they were just fairly successful?

S: I'd say about half successful. We'd always get somebody to go,

you wouldn't get them all always to go..

I: Are there anything which prevent blacks from registering to vote?

S: As far as I know, not anything.

I: Was there anything during the period in which you lived here since-

S: No, not--like, I said, since I've been here they haven't-if a fellow--if

a person wanted to go register, they could always go.

I:: Okay.

S: I never know anyone to stop anybody or, you know, turn anybody around to my

knowledge.

I: Okay.

S: But it's only--there's not that many here so you would pretty near know what

was going on.

I: Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, did you want to write that.

S: Beg your pardon? Yes sir, I did.

I: I didn't want to- Okay.

S: That's the only bad habit I have.

I: Well as long as that's the only one I guess, uh--

S: Well, everybody got something.

I: We have, uh, go ahead.

S: Go ahead I'm just chewing, and smoking and listening.

I: Okay. We have a few factors here that--or a few items that, in some cases,

have prevented blacks from registering to vote. Either in the past, or in

some cases, even today. We'd like to have you just check whether you think,

and comments briefly about each of these, whether you think it was very






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I: important, is very important, fairly important, not important at all, in

terms of preventing blacks from registering to vote in this area.

S: In other words, I can say, economic dependence on the white. That is very

important, fairly important, or not important. That means __ ,

I: In terms of preventing blacks from registering to vote.

S: As I say now--they didn't--I don't know of any cases where they prevented

anybody from voting.

I: Okay.

S: So that would be what very-

I: Not important in terms of preventing.

S: Yes, well no. That's right. That's what I'm saying. So do want an X or

a check?

I: Just whatever. How about #2, fear of physical violence from whites? Has this

prevented blacks from registering to vote at all?

S: If it is--not to my knowledge. That's all I can, you know, not to my knowing.

I: Yeah, right. How about complicated registration forms which may have made

it difficult for blacks? Was this a,, ?

S: The only thing that I find that-we have some that can't read. And when it's

time for the election--as I say, I can't prove it. I don't know. I've heard

that, you know, when the fellow can't read--I'd tell you who want. Well,

they could call the name of who they wanted to vote for, but they said that

somebody--I don't know how they going to know--now they wasn't in the booth.

But they said the person go in there and they wouldn't vote for who they

wanted to vote, but they wouldn't know. How could they know. How would I

know when I'm on the outside? I'd said, now, you never know what that person

in the booth would do. Now we've had several, you know, who wasn't able to

read, but they would tell-they could tell the person that was on the booth

who they wanted to vote for.

I: Oh.






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S: That was left up to them to--

I: Do you think the person in the booth always voted ... ?

S: Now I can't prove a thing.

I: You're not sure. How about in terms of getting registered in the first

place? Was reading important?

S: No, not to my knowing because the lady that's been. up there a pretty good

while--she's very nice. That is, I mean, she'll fill out and fill the card

out for you and everything. Let's see if I have one in my pocket. But

anyway, the lady that's up there now, ,I don't know how long she's been

there, but to my knowing since she's been there, she's even going around

to try to help people, encourage people to '- come vote. And it didn't make

a difference what color.

I: Uh huh.

S: Any color could register -ov Io oa, h--4-t-ooC So as I said, it just-
trouble
I found the biggest / .: was getting someone to go.

I: Just go down, to Ute J.,. 1 just getting him to go down and register.

S: That's the biggest trouble that I've found.

I: So I guess you were saying that complicated registration forms were--you

didn't feel were important.

S: No, they didn't have anything to do with it Because bMec'o- e ~. rs,

and that's her name. She's-what I'm saying,

she would ask questions and as I say, see, she types everything in there.

I: Yeah.

S: And all you had to do was sign. And if you couldn't sign, you'd mark an X

and someone would sign for you. So as I said, now, I don't see anything-

to me I don't see anything.

I: Yeah.

S: And I never knowed her to turn anyone down.






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I: Okay. Fine. How about-so I guess you were saying that was not impDrtant.

S: That's what I'd say.

I: Okay.

S: That was #3?

I: Yeah. Number 4 is poor registration hours. Were the hours such that it

made it difficult for people to go in and get registered?

S: I'd say no, not important. That is, my reason for saying that is this. Yes,

certainly the hours that, you know, a working person couldn't go4, but I've

know them to-thatts why I say I happen to know about it. I've known them

to have the books open on Saturdays when people are not working. She'd

put in--I.don't know how that would come about, but she would work on

Saturday. So people could come into.

I: Okay. Has this always been true since you've been here?

S: Well, since I've been here.

I: Okay.

S: But now they're still-about being there on Saturday-they'll find some

excuse so they couldn't go.

I: Uh huh.

S: So I wouldn't see where that would, you know, as I say, during working hours-

those that did work-there might have been some kind of way .

for them to get there. But I've known it to be open on Saturdays.

I: So I guess you're saying that was also not important. Number 5 is

registration not held often enough during the year.

S: The books open all year except, I believe it's a law--there's a certain-

I don't know the time, but there's a certain time that they're closed

just before elections. And she's in her office every day. The city is

in their office every day. And the only time that they'll stop a person

from coming is after the books is closed.






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I: Okay.

S: Now, the word--I don't say that the word gets around, but, you know, most

of the time people get interested in things like that just before election

time. And then the books is closed.

I: Yeah.

S: But what I'm saying, that's just the law and there':s nothing you can do

about that. But they're open, I'd say, seven-eight months out of the year.

I: Uh huh.

S: And you can go up there-someone could go right now and register.

I: Okay.

S: But they used to be a little inconvenient. They used to--now they used

to have--in this county we used to have two cards. That is you had to

register with the city and the county. Now when you register with the

county, that automatically takes care of both.

I: Why did they have two registrations? Do you know?

S: It was like that before I-no I don't. But they changed over in the last

three or four years now.

I: Okay.

S: Now why it was two I never did question it, but when you vote for the city

you couldn't vote in the county if you hadn't registered. But now you can

go to this person here in the county at the courthouse and register and

you're qualified for the city and the county.

I: Okay. How about reregistration effects. I assume that if you don't vote-

if you haven't voted in two years, your name is taken off the roll.

S: Right.

I: Does that-is that work a real difficulty, do you feel, for blacks.

S: If they don't vote, yes.

I: And then they get their names taken off.






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S: In one way and one way not. Communication-I'm guessing-I can't prove it.

I say, I call it communication-that's just getting the word out if enough
That's
people don't know about it. / just laws and things-changes and persons-

people don't keep up with them-don't know what's going on. Well, we have-

we do have a regional station. Well, everybody now is TV happy. They hardly

ever turn on the radio, but I'm just using that-I can't prove it. I don't

have any statistics or anything to prove what I'm saying. Now I'm just

guessing. But I'll say that the, uh, well, we have a local paper. I don't

know if it was in the paper or not, but as I say, when a fellow can't read

or don't buy the paper or don't turn on the radio, he wouldn't know what

is going on. And that's why I said communication. I could be wrong. I

can't prove a thing, but a lot of people don't realize it's when they--
if
you just say to them after it,/you don't vote every two years or whatever

that law is. I never read up on it. I know it's a law, but I always

vote every year whether I like what's going on or not. I always vote.

And no one buys my vote.

I: Yeah.

S: There's a lot of people that-maybe I shouldn't say it, but it's true.

That is, you're going to come by and buy me-give me a fish dinner. You

don't--I don't take your fish.

I: Does that happen some down around here?

S: Oh, it happens all around-what I mean is that or they'll come in and give

two pounds of fish.

I: Uh huh.

S: Well, I don't know if that's buying your vote or not, but no one never offers

me any fish. But I wouldn't have taken it anyway, but no one everme any.

I don't know why.

I: Were there some candidates who used to do this.






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S: Yes, I mean, you know, come in and--they--I don't--they'd just leave it

with the different groups.

I: Uh huh.

S: You know, to have a fish fry tomorrow. And everybody come by to eat fish.

I never did go by and eat.

I: Is this still done?

S: Oh yes. It's done everywhere around in this place.

I: Are these mainly white candidates that do this or black candidates?

S: Yes, there were no-I'm the only black that ever ran or anything around

in here that I know of.

I: Uh huh.

S: And as I say, no one ever offered me any fish and I never did eat any fish.

I guess it's all right, I don't know.

I: Uh huh. Do you think that really influences the voters?

S: No. Uh uh. That's what I say. Now don't let-you mean to tell me you're

going to give me a piece of fish and not going to tell me how to vote.

That's just my saying.

I: Okay.

S: But I don't believe it does. I find out people will take things because you

give it to them.

I: Yeah.

S: But you can give me something. If I don't have-want or have any use for it,

I still wouldn't take it. Especially if you: re a candidate. Now I-you

might think that you were doing me a favor by giving me a fish sandwich,

but that's what I work for-to buy a fish sandwich. If I didn't need

anything to eat, I wouldn't have to work. That's the only you need and

I buy it. You can do without these other things, but we don't. As I say,

mostly you have to eat. That's one thing you have to do.






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I: The last factor here is--I guess you said that was not important. The

last one is indifference of blacks to voting. Some people just don't care.

Do you think that's a factor in preventing some blacks from registering

to vote?

S: True.

I: How important do you think that is?

S: It's very important. That's something that old ages, ever since slavery

time, we've been involved. That is, they don't seem to think that-you

can't get it into some of them heads that by them voting that will do good.

They think, well, the man going to do like he want to do anyway. Sure, if

he sits back and don't say anything and don't vote. And some of them

Believe that the white-man is God. I've had some of them tell me and they

laughed when I ran for mayor-said they couldn't vote for me-the black

man as mayor. Well, they came out and told me. They didn't hide it.

And then I had some white to tell me. Say if I was running for councilman,

right on, they'd vote for me, but they couldn't vote for me as mayor.

Had black tell me the same thing. So it's just one of those things, but

that didn't discourage me. I went on and worked right on, but I wasn't

looking for their vote. And they just came out and told me that they

couldn't vote for me. Had several of them tell me that.

I: 'Cause they would-be to vote for the white candidate?

S: Yes.

I: So you felt that was very important.

S: Well, now when you say very important--by them telling me?

I: No, the indifference of the blacks to voting. I guess you said you felt

this was -

S: Well, that would be very important.

I: Okay. The next few questions--we wanted to gather some information on your






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I: information on your election campaigns when you ran for office here in

Florida. And first of all, we'd like to ask you-were you able to

campaign freely do you feel. That is, were you harassed or threatened

in any way?

S: In my-when I ran for city councilman I was not threatened. When I ran

for mayor I was, but it didn't frighten me or anything. I' got two or

three calls-.and was told that I was to leave town, but I didn't' leave.

I: Uh huh. These were from white

S: Well, now I couldn't tell on the phone.

I: Yeah.

S: You know how that is.

I: Do you feel that that didn't effect your campaign in any way or did it?

S: Well, I don't think it did. I don't think I even told too many people

about it. I just--well, I told a couple friends of mine and we sit up

and then the night that he was coming, we was ready, but no one showed up.

I: Oh, he said he was-the person who called said he was going to come over.

S: Oh, they going to come by and do certain things, but no one showed. We

sat up three nights. They don't know if I' was sitting up or not. They

didn't know where I was. But I was close by, but I didn't leave. And I

wasn't thinking about leaving, but they--I didn't want them to come in and

catch me in bed.

I: Uh huh. Do you--and you, of course, you didn't know who these people were-

who they represented.

S: No. They didn't give any names or anything.

I: Is the Ku Klux Klan active in this area do you think or has it been --

S: Not since I've been here. They tell me it used to be a long time ago,

hut not since I've been here. If it is active, I don't know anything

about it.






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I: Okay. Were you handicapped by a lack of campaign money when you ran or not?

S: Well, no. My reasons for saying no is this. As I say, this is a small

place. You can walk over it twenty minutes and see everybody you want

to see. But mostly what I was depending on--I didn't do much campaigns.

And when I went out to the election, I either went out--I would put it in

churches. I was on the radio and when I'd see someone, I'd just pass 'them

a card. And that was about it. But as said, it's not that many people

here, and if a fellow know you, he just know you. If he don't know you,

he didn't know you.

I: Uh huh.

S: And one thing that helped out I imagine, by me being out here at the school,

which was integrated at the time, most of-well, it was--where they would-

Au wa crS -- the ratio was about 2:1, 3:1 I'd put white and black.

So were r just getting black votes, I couldn't have gotten in. If.

I'd got all the black votes, I couldn't have gotten in.

I: Uhf huh.

S: Because it wouldn't be enough. There's not enough of us. So I had to get

some white.

I: You said you did have some radio advertisements and things like that.

S: Yes.

I: Did you spend your own money for that or was that money you were 4enetetd?

S: Well, about half.

I: About half was your own money?

S: Yeah. We just made one tape and we also put it on--maybe two days before

election time.

I: This was when you ran for mayor?

S: Mayor and councilman.

I: And councilman. About how much money did you spend?






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S: Oh, I wouldn't know. I'd have to look back on the book. What I'm saying,

it wasn't that much, but I believe--I'm guessing now-I believe it was $27.00

for about three minutes.

I: Uh huh.

S: I believe that's what it was.

I: And you had some cards printed up, too.

S: Yes, I had cards printed up.

I: Why did you decide to run for office in Blountstown? You said you were the

first black to run. Why did you decide to run?

S: Well, my reasoning was that the things that was going on--we wouldn't know--

my, people wouldn't know anything abbut it. That is, no one never goes to

the meeting, and I figured by having someone up there they could bring

ack firsthand information. By the time he get it, it would be in the

paper They'd put it in the paper, oAvr- what they wanted to

put in there. Who voted for what? Who voted against what? And you wouldn't

know. Not unless you were there. And so I think about someone being up

there would have decisions-would help make some of the policies for the

county-I mean for the city. And then I could bring back firsthand

information of what was going on. Money that was coming in-if they got

it--well, you know anything about it if it was spent.

I: Uh huh.

S: The revenue sharing, uh, divided the way they wanted to divide it.

I: Okay.

S: And that was my reason for wanting to be up there.

I: What was it when you ran for mayor. Did you have--is that the reason you

ran for mayor, too?

S: Well, no. My reasons for running for mayor-I didn't tell a lot of people.

A lot of them don't know. And I imagine you do,-f know. But a small town






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S: a black mayor will get more for the poor people than a white mayor will.

Now what I mean by that--you have to use it for both. You can't just use

it all for blacks. There are a lot of projects and things that are going

on that would not go to a black mayor-I mean a white mayor that would go

to a black mayor. I don't know if you know that, but it's true. What I

mean by that-

I: Projects that would be through the state?

S: The government-federal government. Projects that come out that would go

to a black mayor, but he can't use it for blacks. He has to use it for both.

I: Uh huh.

S: And that was my main reason for wanting to run for mayor. Everybody said

we didn't need a black mayor, but I tried it anyway.

I: What types of projects did you have in mind?

S: Well, what I'm saying, I don't remember the projects. I've been to several

meetings in Atlanta and even when I was councilman--things that they talk

there, no one here knew anything about it. They didn't get it here. And
let's see
mostly this was the political doing. Oh,/if I have anything-. I don't'know if
it's
I have: anything here on it or not, but / joint study of political science

out of Washington, D.C.

I: Yeah. Joint--yeah. Joint se- of political studies.

S: Yeah, that's it.

I: Yeah. They had a meeting in Atlanta?

S: They havevthem every year. I've been but I didn't go. But

I don't know. I'm just down here on __

And in that group you can get a lot of things that I said that was going on

that you wouldn't know. But it's--when you get it, you have to--everybody

has to use it. You couldn't just put it in the black community. But it

would be for white and black. And as a white mayor, he wouldn't






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S: know nothing about that. He wouldn't even get a bulletin on it.

I: I see.

S: I don't know if all kinds of government--d-ity government does that, but they

do it.

I: Okay. Which political party do you belong to?

S: Well, you ought to know that one without even--I was born and raised in

the South now. So what I mean by that-'that's just like a family's

religion. It depends on what your mother and father was. You start

going to that church and whether you-you might switch over you later

by however you find it. So I imagine you know my.party. I was born and

raised here. My home is at Lakeland. I don't know if you know where

that is or not, Lakeland, Florida?

I: Oh yeah. Yeah.

S: All right. So I believe that answers it.

1: So you're a Uemocrat?

S: Right.

I: We interviewed--a friend of mine interviewed a black commissioner who was

Republican, you know what I: mean.

S: TFh huh. I have one friend of mine right here is Republican. Well, he was

-5aun and /raised here,- But he 'coved away before I came here. And he went--

/oved to Detroit. And he' s retired now back here. I think he's about

the- only one around here that P know- of that's black. Well, he's--so he

switched over after he got up there.

I' Did you ever receive any support from the Democrat party when you ran for

office?

S4 No, I'never received any support from anybody. I didn't ask for any.

'Maybe. if I would have asked, but I: didn't.

I: What were the two or three most important issues when you campaigned--






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I: both for councilman and for mayor. What were the most important issues

of your campaign?

S: I don't know if I can recall that back now. Let's see if I have anything

on here. I don't know if I-as I said--this is--. have

something on here just as I said just now. Uh, communication-I have that

on here-list communication with citizens-that is-someone that would

let them know what was going on. As I say, there were certain--too many

people around here--well, at that time--now they've changed it a little

Kit---they didn't believe in a lot of government projects. I mean, you

know, federal projects and things. They didn't bb-1-- because at

that time I'wanted to try to get sewage and water along. We needed it

bad, hut they didn't--they already owed the government, federal government

some -money. The groups that were on didn't think that we needed to

get in debt anymore.

UI: Uh huh.

S: And as I said, communication is had. Things that goes on up there we

don't get it out here. What we get in the paper, we get part of it.

We don't get the whole story. Different things that was going on--that

is if you need to know who was voting against what or what was what so

when voting time come around again, you would know. But no one was

knowing what, and that was my main reason for whating to go up there.

Just say any issue--no one had a--around here, you don't have any issue.

Because as I say, it's not that much going on. They know you or don't

know you.

I: TJh huh.

S: And they vote for or they vote for you. It's not-as I say, it's not

that many people here.

I': Uh. huh.






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Bridges


S: And hardly-ever there is an issue going.

I: What were the main problems confronting the black community at that time.

You'd mentioned something like water and sewage.

S: Well, there was streets, water, sewage, lights.

I: Uh huh.

S: And things like that. That's mostly what is was. Since that time, they

have the streets-well, it was in the works when I was in there. We--I

think.all the streets out here are paved now, but about two and they're

short streets. And everybody that wants water can get it. Everybody

doesn't have sewage. I don't think, but they do have water, lights if

they want it.

I- Were these issues in your campaign? Did you raise these issues in your

campaign at all?

S: No. Uh.uh. As I: said, it wasn't too much of a issue.

I: 'Uh huh.
4ke-
S: No one was going on-issues so it wasn't no issue, I mean--you know what

I mean. I just told as many of them one or two things that I would do

if I got in.

I: Uh huh.

S: But as I said, it wasn't no special issue Vkrk Co Cou\~ hardly--

or anyone since I've been here that no one goes on.

I: Okay.

S: It's just mostly it's--the fellow that the most people know. They think

he'll try to do a good job. That's all it is. And the thing that

helped me out was that-integration, I guess. They wanted me to be in

the courts. Everybody always know the courts when, you know, when you're

coming along. And that's about the biggest thing that helped me.

I: Okay. How were you elected? Wds it at large? Most of the elections






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I: here are at-large?

S: Yes, they are.

I: In Blountstown? When you were councilman, were you elected in a ward,

though?

S: Yes, in a ward, but the way they do it here, anyone that's in that--

well, in the others wards can vote. Everybody votes on who they want

it to be. Just the ones in your ward don't vote for you. The ones

outside your ward can vote for you, too.

I' Oh, so everyone can vote for you?

S: Yes.

I: Is that what you're saying?

S- Uh huh.

I: But you represented a particular area?

S: Yes.

I: Of Blountstown.

S: Right. But everybody could vote for you that lived inside the city

limits that were registered.

I: Okay. But once in office, you were a representative of a particular ward



S: well, you're supposed to have been, but you could help anybody that came

up with a problem.

I: Yeah.

S: I had a, you know, everybody that had a problem or complaint--we'd always

helped them.

I Hbowmany different districts or ward are there?

S; Four.

I: Four.

S: Inside the city limits.






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I: So you have four councilmen and a mayor?

S: Right.

I: How many people are in your--were in your ward or your district?

S: Oh, just guessing, I'd say about--around between 550 and 600.

I: Okay.

S: Just guessing now.

I: And what percent of these were black?

S: About two percent.

I: Just two percent. So you were representing the white, uh--

S; Oh yeah. See the ward, as I said, yeah, it's about-that's about what

it would be. There's more white in the ward than there is colored.

I mean black.

I: And yet everyone in the city voted for you?

S: Right.

I: Okay. What percent of the city is black? Approximately.

S: Just guessing I: couldn't know--

I: Yeah.

S: Well, wait a minute. I've got the statistics over here and we might

have it. Look here. __ '_. We probably ought to

pick that one. It's in one of them. I don't know which one.

I: Okay. Well, we can look it up. You probably have a general idea.

S: Well, if they have it up to date here. I saw it the other day. I don't

know which one of these books it was in, but-look on page 36 and go on

and see what it has. I don't want that-that's dlectkS We have it by

counties in one of these books.

I: Well, we can look it up later.

S': The&-e's population.

I: That's just the ___






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S: It's _down somewhere. The cities-- the county.

I thought I saw it.

I: here's the population--7,000 in the

county.

S: Uh.huh.

I: Well, that's okay. We can look it up later.

S: It should be in here. Yeah, hut it's still county,

though. The population in the community of white and nonwhite.



1 WOe'll look that up .

S: But I"m guessing there's about two-thirds.

I: Two-thirds white?

S: Yes, just guessing.

I: White--two-thirds white?

S: Well, I mean--you mean for the city. You're speaking about the--

I,: Yeah, the city is what we'd like.

S: Well, what I'm saying, uh, it's about one-third-maybe one or two-thirds

colored--black--in the whole city limits.

I' About one-third?

S: Something like that. Just guessing. They don't ever have a definite

figure because they move in and out.

I: Uh.huh.

S: Depending.on the time of year.

I: About--would you estimate--about what percentage of blacks in your

district are registered to vote? Do you have any idea?

S: I'd say about three-fourths of whatever the number is.

I: About three-fourths were eligible?

S: I mean, what a minute no6w. Ybu'd said that are eligible. You don't






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S: you mean that--

I: Yeah, well, twenty-one or over. Or eighteen or over now.

S: Yeah. Well, I'd say about three-fourths.

I: Three-fourths. Okay.

S: We might be able to stick with that.

I: Of this percentage who are registered, how many do you think actually

voted for you in your-the election which you won-about what percentage?
a
S: Well, it--when I was/councilman I'd say about eighty--about ninety percent.

I: Okay. And when you ran for mayor?

S: I'd say about fifty percent.

IX Fifty percent. Why was there the drop off there when you ran for mayor?

S- Well, as I said before, they didn't think I could-I would--they didn't

want to see a black man as mayor. My own people. And then as I said,

some came out and told me to my face. They didn't tell me but they.told

people that I had driving for me--they told them. Some of them got

angry and wanted-IX told them you can get mad and fed up. He wanted to

fight, but this doesn't make sense.

I: Uh. huh.

S: Let them vote for who he wanted.

I: Uh huh.

S: And I tried to show them that if they wanted the other man, let them vote

for the other man. And I even carried people--drove people down in my

car that I had going that voted for the other man. But you see, I

could tell-

I: Uh huh.

S: You never--you don't know their names, but you could go back and check.

I Uh huh.

S: And find out how many black votes, and then you can tell how many you






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S: got. You can tell how many whites you got, but you can't say who voted.

But you can always check and find out how many votes you got from white

and black.

I: Uh huh.

S: But as I say, the names wouldn't mean anything--you wouldn't be able

to get their names, but--

1: Yeah, you could get--

S: And then so I could tell by the checking of the cards--the fellows told

me the number of each one I hauled. As I said, some of those I hauled

didn't even vote for me. But they rode down in my car.

I1 Do you think you got any votes from whites?

S; Oh yes.

I: About what percentage?

S: About a half of whatever I got.

I: Okay. How about when you ran for mayor?

S: It's about the same.

I: About half. How many opponents did you have when you ran--first of all

for the council?

S: One.

I: A white?

S: Both times one.

I: Just one.

S: Excuse me just a minute. Let me .-

I: Just one last question on your election. What percent of the total vote

did you get? When you won and then when you ran for mayor. Do you

remember the--about the approximate percent of the total vote?

S: All right, for councilman, I received about three-fourths of the vote.

I: Seventy-five percent?






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S: Uh huh.

I: And when you ran for mayor?

S: About one-fourth.

I: About one-fourth. Okay. We have one last general section here. To

determine how well black officials were able to benefit those they

represent. The first question we'd like to ask you is, "In what ways

do you think you have helped blacks in Blountstown by holding office?"

S; Well, number 6ne, I:was able to put in some of the things that we

needed out here that the other parts of town were getting that we

wasn't getting. As I said, roads, the streets, water, lights, and

they would--one thing-I- could come back and see someone. And talk=

with them and tell them about what was going on.

I': 1h huh.

S, And I think they benefited from that.

I: Okay. What, if anything, prevented you from doing a better job, do

you feel, especially in regard to benefiting blacks in the city?

S. Well, one thing, if--r'm guessing-I can't prove it. I just believe.

As I said, no one ever goes to meetings. I believe if I had more

people just to come. I'm guessing. I can't prove it. I don't have
that
any statistics or anything. That is if--when if .something/I wanted
pec'D& o' -\ ^o re-
to ask for or something I wanted to do and I had, I'd see twenty-five

listening and know what was going on, I believe I could do a better

job than I would if I didn't have anybody there when I asked for something.

Now I might-as I say, even when we have public hearings right now, no

one but the people that mostly involved in it are there.

I: Uh huh.

S: But it's still a public hearing. No one seems to be interested in the

thing until after it happens.






FB 37A Bridges

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I: Uh huh.

S: Then everybody wants to find something wrong, but they never gone to any

of the meetings to-where they-that's where you do your talking. You

don't do it after if happens. It doesn't do any good then.

I: Were you able to get more blacks to start coming to the meetings?

S: They wasn't able to--maybe the first meeting we had about four.

I: Uh huh.

S: And after it ended, it dropped down to one. And after about six months,

no one. __not unless somebody had a complaint--something

was wrong that they wanted to bring to the council. That's the only

reason they would come there.

I; URhhuh. Okay. We have, again, a few items that, in some cases, seem

to prevent officials from doing a better job. And we'd like to have

you, again, just, if you would, check whether you think these items

were very important, fairly important, or not important at all in

terms- of preventing you from doing a better job in benefiting blacks?

pirst of all, in terms of the office having no real authority or no

real power. Did you feel that that was very important, fairly important,

or not important at all in terms of preventing you from doing a better job?

S: Uh, now you mean a better job in office, that is getting things-

IT Better job in terms of benefiting blacks and that's-yeah, doing things.

S4 Well, I' think, it was very important. That is--you mean by me being in

office?

I: Well, did you feel that the office. had no real authority or no real power

to get things done?

S: Well, it did. It did.

I: You felt it did.

S: Yes, it would give me a chance to put it on priority, that is, put it on






FB 37A Bridges

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S: the list. And after one thing get on the list, like I say, all the

streets not--and when it get on the list, they would go on and do it.

But if I hadn't have been there to put it on the list, the might have

put some of them on there and they might not. I can't--I don't have

any proof either way.

I: TUh huh.

S: But by me being there I could put something on the list.

I: Okay. So that-,-I: guess you'd say, was not important in terms of

preventing you from benefiting blacks.

S; No, that would Be right.

I: How about being outvoted by white officials. Do you think that was
an
important or not/important factor in terms of preventing you from doing

a better job.

S: In other words, you're saying, now if I'd had had some other blacks

there, certain things that I:'ve asked for. Well, I'm going to be honest

about it. Most of the things that I asked for--it wasn't no use to ask

for a -mountain when you know the mountain wasn't there. And I was only

asking for things that they'd know we needed, and things that they could

get. They -ight not be able to get them right then, but in the...


End of Side 1-FB 37A






FB 37A Bridges

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S: keep up with everything--read newspapers and get articles. And by me

going up to Atlanta.once a year, I'd know what was going on all the

time and _all in a year. They would send me pamphlets and things.

And any of the city laws that I wanted to know about, all I had to do

was call down and they would even bring it to me where I could read up

on it.

I: Did you have to pay your way to Atlanta or was that paid for you?

S: I: had to pay my way there, but they paid for--the center paid my room

and card.

I; So I guess you felt that thattwas not important in terms of preventing

you from doing a better job? How about number five, and that is-lack

of cooperation from whites. Did you feel that that was a very important,

or fairly important or not important in terms of preventing you from

doing a Better job?

S' Well, as I: said now, they all knew me and I all-we all knew each other

so that's just like anything else. Same things that they'd want done,

I'-d yote for it. And things that I wanted done, we'd talk it over.

I Uh. hh.

S: And we'd come to an agreement. We'd compromise. And it was just one

of those things. We'd, uh, we got along all right. Or always--maybe

one--sometimes everybody not's going to get along together. I don't

care who it is. And I got along all right with the majority whether

they was. Or I could go By their actions. I wouldn't know what the

fellow was sayT-g.

I: Uh huh. So you-

S: But in the meetings we got along all right.

I' So you felt that that wasn't important.

S: That's right.






FB 37A Bridges

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I: How about lack of cooperation from blacks? Was that a factor?

In terms of preventing you from doing a better job?

S: As I said before, if I could have gotten them to come down. They were-

everybody always had an excuse. They were tired.or just got in from work.

And or' they might not had a way to get down. But I'd still believe--I

dontt know. I can't prove it. If I ever had better attendance at the

meetings among the blacks, I could have gotten things done a little

better than I did.d.,

I-: Uh huh.

S: That's just my own opinion. I don't have anything to go on.

I So you think that factor was maybe fairly important or very important?

S I thi~k4 it was -fairly important.

I: Fairly important. Lack. of cooperation from state f94ioa"9e4 Do you

think that prevented you from doing a better job in benefiting blacks?

S We11, I can't answer that one too good because I didn't have any--the

only times I had state officials that I happen to know. I knew him

before I got in office bu; w s u.-- .And the only times

that I got any--had--he would come around when it was time for his

election. But I never had any conflicts or anything to contact any

of them about during those times, you know, the two years that I was in.

I: Okay.

S: But as I said, only one that I did ever have any contact with, and that

was-he was running for office hisself. And I guess that's when he

contacted me. I knew-well, I was helping him before I ever got in.

I:: Okay. So I guess that was not important.

S: No, not important.

I: Finally, the lack of cooperation from federal officials. Did you have

any dealings with the federal officials?






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S: Well, I didn't have any dealing with them. No more than I say I went

to these studies up therein Atlanta.

I: Okay.

S: But that was the only dealing that I had with the federal officials.

I: So I guess that was not important. Have you received any criticism

from the black community in terms of lack of cooperation because they

maybe feel that you're only a token in government and you've had no

real authority? Was that ever a criticism that you received from any

blacks?

S: No, the only criticism, when I was in office, E.Il got any, I didn't know--

they didn't tell me. As I say, the only things I know anything about

they came by and told me when I was resigning three months before time

was up to run for mayor. They told me I didn't think I could--should

have resigned to run for mayor.

I Okay. How about white officials. Did they-did you feel ever that they

treated you differently from the other officials, that is, did they

consider you, say, a spokesman for the blacks--that you were only able

to raise certain issues for the blacks or-

S: Well, I don't think so. They didn't show it if they did. That is-as

I say, I had more white in my district than I had blacks.

I: Uh huh.

S: So I'd have about as many issues for one side as I would for the other one
7


r: Did you feel, though, that you represented blacks in Blountstown?

S: Well, I figured I represented three-fourths of them.

I: Of the blacks?

S: Yes.

I: Even though your district was C 1 Ir-.






FB 37A Bridges

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S: But most times they would come to me if something went wrong or they

wanted to know. They'd come, and then one or two that knew the other

white officials personally would go to them or they worked for them

or some of their people worked for them. They'd go see them then, but

as a whole, I think it was all right.

I: Did whites ever come to you and get help, too?

Sy Yes.

I; Some. But mostly blacks?

S: Well, it's about half and half.

I: Half and half. What services do you feel you've provided blacks in

your district that they did not have before you took office as a

councilman?

S. Now when you say services--

I; Be it roads or-- guess you mentioned water and sewage. Do you think

that you were able to help provide these services for blacks that

they'd not had Before.

S: Well, I think so. That is by-me being able to put it on the priority

list.

I; Yes.

S: See, they-make a list every year of the things they going to do the

next year. And by me being there, I believe it did help.

I': Okay.

S: Because I can recall when I came here, we didn't have water out here,

no lights, one telephone, and one paved street. So over the years,

it has been improved.

I: Now do you think most of the improvement was a result of your being

in office?

S: Well, notLthe lights, but I'd say the streets and the water, yes.






FB 37A Bridges
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I: I see. The lights came in after you left office or--

S: No before. The lights were in, but see, we didn't have water everywhere

and we didn't have, well, sewage everywhere. And we didn't have--only

one pave street.

I:: Uh huh.

S: But now all the streets are paved now. All but two short ones.

I: Okay.

S: And now everybody that wants water can get it.

I': We have just one last of these checklists and I think this will go

fairly quickly. These are short. We want you to rate how effective

you think you ve been in each of the following areas. Now some of

these you've commented on already, but again, we'd like to have you

rate how effective you think you've been in each of the following

service areas in terms of benefiting blacks. First of all, police

protection. Tou had mentioned that you tried to get, for example, I

guess some police--black policeman. Do think you were fairly effective

in that area or were not.

S; I'd say somewhat.

I: Somewhat effective?

S: Uh huh.

I: Okay. Streets and roads?

S: Very.

I: Very effective. Row about housing?

S: That's another that was very. We not-I' can say that not because I was

in office, maybe, I don't know. But I was=-we got the first grant here

that ever-that this type of grant that'd ever been received from the

federal government. And I happened to be the president of the group.

And so I don't know-- got that after I was in office.






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I: Uh huh.

S: I-well, we had to right up a project, you know, you had to right up

those projects. You got one from FHA that no one said-We were the

first one in the state of Florida to get one.

I: Uh huh.

S: So that's why I marked that one very effective, hut not--but maybe

because of the councilman not, but I--that was just--

I: Was that money used primarily for housing black housing?

S'; Yes, well no. I couldn't use it for black housing. Anybody that wanted

to buy, a house, I had to sell it.

I': Oh, I see. This was, to help people. buy homes?

:5: Yes.

I; Do you think this helped blacks more than whites or--

S: Well, it did because no white bought any.

I: Okay. So it was just blacks.who bought it.

S: But in the agreement with the federal government that we had to sign

that no integration-we had to sell to anybody that wanted to buy.

I: Okay. How about welfare?

S: Not effective.

I: Dtd that-I guess that didn't apply?

S: No, it didn't apply in any way.

I: How about employment of blacks? How effective do you think you may

have been there? In terms of crowded city employment?

S: Well, they did hire blacks during the time that I was in, but they

never hired one before. We only had--they only hire--they hired two.

One quit and one is still with them. So I'd say somewhat effective.

I': What positions?

S: Well, you know, garbage collector.






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I: Okay.

S: So they'd never had one before.

Unknown U: Mike is having a lot of tooth trouble. He got a tooth pulled.
Speaker
S: Do you need to go home? e~use vc.

U: t/ k_______

I: done which one, oh employment. Yeah, you

said they-you've been able to help get two blacks hired. What positions

were those in the city?

S; Garbage. collectors.

I: Garbage collectors.

S: So I would say not too effective I don't guess.

I: Some, I guess you say was somewhat?

S W ell, that's be-somewhat would be all right. That's under employment.

I: Employment. How about parks and recreation?

S; We didn't get anything. We still don't have any. The city doesn't have

any parks and recreation. So everything around here is private. That

is churches.

I: Churches?

S: You know-, have their own. If your church don't put up one, then you

don't have one. I don't know what-they seem to think they don't have

enough money to do that. The j c-l ---- now they've been trying

to get some grants and things, but they haven't been successful yet to

get one. That's--oh, I got another booklet somewhere here. I don't

know is it's this one. It must be that one. Anyway, they have recreation

and things on that priority, you know, what they're trying to get, but

haven't been able. to get one yet. So that would-I would--that would

fall under not effective.






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I: Not effective. Water, sewage, and garbage. I guess you said you had

been able to--

S: So that I believe would be-- guess that that'd be very effective.

I: Okay. Health and hospitals?

S: Well, they had a hospital. Health, I wouldn't say that-I'd say not

effective. That is because the office didn't have anything to do with it.

I, Nothing to do with it?

S: We. didn't have anything to do with the health or even the hospitals.

I: Okay. Education? In terms of lawlessness--

S: W didn't have anything to do with it.

I: Nothing to do with education?

S: Nothing to do with that.

I': Do you have a county education or a school board?

S: Yes.

I: Is is county or city?

S: Well, it's county, but it takes care, the city and the county.

I: County fire protection?

S: Well, I don't think they have-well, that would fall under not effective

because--now they give them-their service it is volunteer. Now

_volunteer department not-they -- i --they give

everybody the same service. So I haven't-that was going on before I got

in and it's still going on. There's no paid--

r: No pay?

S: No, just volunteers.

I: Uh huh.

S: So, well, they use most everybody that works right up town there. And

I guess its--I imagine it's a standard agreement that, I'm guessing,






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S: when the alarm go off, those fellows that work close by--that they

already him as volunteer. They'd go get on the truck. You know, now

but it's an understanding between them and their employees that they

join the crowd. So as I said, we don't have a paid fire department

so it wouldn't be--that would fall under the same thing--not effective.

I: Okay. Were you able to get federal funds for Blountstown? You had

mentioned that you thought you were instrumental in getting a housing

grant. Were there any other federal funds that you think you were able

to get?

S: That was the only one that I knew anything about. See, I wasn't the

only one. I juss; happened to be the president of the group, and there

was thirteen people--twelve people involved. We had to get a charter.

I: Uh huh.

S: But it was twelve of us in the grapp, and I just-they happened to elect

me as president.

I: Uh huh. Okay. As an elected official, do you think you were able to

bring or did you ever attempt to bring in industry or retail stores

into the city?

S: No, I did not.

I: Was there any attempt along this line?

S: Not-on my part?

I: Yeah.

S: Well, no. The chamber of commerce was taking care of all of that type

of work at that time, and they still are.

I: Okay.

S: And that didn't even--had anything to do with the city, you know. They

would always welcome anybody that would come in. We had one or two

to come in at that time, but the chamber of commerce has-done most--






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S: done--do all that type of work.

I: What--is this primarily a farming community or is there some industry in

town or-

S: Well, partly farming. And what would you call pulp wooding?

I: What is that?

S: Pulpwooding, uh, wood?

I: Oh, oh.

S: Logging or whatever you call it.

I: Yeah, logging.

S: Now they have-well, I can recall when I first came here which, you know,

was not during ?_. That is--they-from what I understodd--

that they didn't want anybody coming in. But since then, I know the

chamber of commerce has been working real hard to.get different

industries to come in the area. They',ve. gotten three in. They're doing

pretty good.

I: Uhl huh.

S: But as I've said, they've always taken care of things like that.

I: Okay. Has federal revenue sharing helped in the city here?

S: Yes, it's helped very good.

I: What specifically was the money used for?

S: Well, to upgrade equipment, the streets, the sewage and water, and the

salaries for the employees.

I: Uh huh.

S: But for everything they said they could use it for-well, they couldn't

use it for everything, but those things it could be used for, it upgraded

them.

I: Okay. Have there been, in your memoDy, have there been any black protests






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I: or si1 ns or boycotts of any type in Blountstown in the last ten years?

S: Not to my knowing. There could have been. I'm not--if they were, I

would have heard about it, and I haven't heard.

I: You didn't know of any?

S: No. Oh, maybe there's been one or two that went pIc~c- that asked

for jobs, but the qualifications hired them-the thing that kept them

out.

I: But there were no sitins or protests 'or boycotts?

S: No, no sitign. No one came in. No one came in or anything like that.

I; ITd like to ask you just a general question or two about your ideas

about politics in Florida in general. First of all, we would like to

ask.you what your opinion is of Governor Ruben Askew. That is, do you

think hers been favorable in his attitude and policies toward blacks in

Florida or not.

S: I'd say, yes.

I: How do you feel about him as governor?

S: Well, I think he's been very--well, he's been one of the best governors

we've had for some time. That is, I believe he--that he, well, I can't

prove that he's been doing what he thought was being and that's all you

can go "By. Is the fellow, you know, well, he's in charge and he's the

one that's said it. And I believe he's been trying to treat blacks

fairly. I can't prove it.

I: Okay.

S: But the few that I've talked with, and I've been to several meetings

with him. And some of the things that he's said he's going to do, he

did do them. So that's all I can go by.

I: Are there any things in particular that he's done that you feel has been

helpful for blacks?






FB 37A Bridges

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S: Well, one thing that I know, he said that he was going to keep the

A & M open and it's still open.

I: Okay. What's your opinion of other state officials or even state

representatives? You had mentioned your own representative.

S: Well, the only things that I--complaint that I have the--and then it

might be the citizen's fault--they only come around when it's time for

election. And you see them then.

I: Uh huh.

S: And after the election, you don't see them anymore. And I'm, as I

say, maybe they-I say they should come around all the time. That's

just my opinion. I don't know. Hle might not be able to come. I don't

know.

I1 Uh. huh.

S1; But you can look for them just before elections--day and night.

I Okay. Finally just one last general question we want to ask you, and

that is, do you think that winning and holding office in Florida has

heen worth the effort for you?

S; Yes, it does because places and things that I've done, places I've

gone and things that I've done. If I had not it'd been a--they

accepted me because I was in office.

I: Uh huh.

S: And if I had not been in office, I wouldn't have been there.

I: Where's this?

S: Well, oh I can name-Miami. I was invited--I was down there and I was--

after I had told them who I was, I was able to go places and do things

that I couldn't have done if I hadn't had been in office. And I've

been to West palm Beach. And I was treated royally. But I believe

if I: hadn't had been an officer, I wouldn't have been treated. I'm






FB 37A

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Bridges


S: just guessing. I can't prove it.

I: Uh huh. Okay.

S: But it helped out.

I: Were there any negative aspects of the job, as you look back?

S: No, I can't see of any.

I: Do you think you might run again?

S: Oh yes. I'm going to run again.

I: You're going to run again? For mayor?

S: No, I'm going to run for school board member.

I: The school hoard?

P: IUh huh.

I: Uh, you don't have any regrets, then?

S: No. No regrets.

I How has it effected your family life, your social life-is that-

S: Well, the social life around here is very limited. If you need

anything, you have to go out of town. So it wouldn't--it didn't have

any effect on it that way. And the family--it was just one of those

things--everyday things.

I:: Uh huh.

Unknown U: My grandmom's here.
speaker
S: Okay.

U: She's been waiting on us.

S: Okay. Okay you go ahead and just leave your things.

U: Okay.

1": We had just a few-just personal questions that we'd like to ask you.

First of all, your age?

S: Fifty-eight.






FB 37A Bridges

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I:: Fifty-eight. Your occupation before you were elected?

S: Well, I've Been here twenty-three years.

I: As a coach?

S: Yes. And I run a laundry right here on-a laundrymat.

I: Uh huh.

S: And in the funeral home business.

I: Oh, do you own a funeral home?

S: Well, according to the law, no, but I've worked with someone that owns

a funeral home.

I: Oh, I see. Okay. Level of education?

S: B. S.

I:: From where?

S: Florida Memorial College. It used to be in St. Augustine. They've

moved to Miami now.

1: Okay. Did you receive any salary?

U:__

S: Okay.

I: Did you receive any salary from your elected position?

S: Yes.

I:: Of how much?

S: One dollar a year.

I One dollar a year?

S I: still have Wmy checks. I didn't cash them. I put them in my scrap b

I; Have they raised the salary at all?

S: No. They still pay a dollar *r\- c\o

E: [/1/7~ /) t
,movement during the early 1960's?

S: We didn't have anything like that here.


)ok.






FB 37A Bridges

-41-

C,
I: Nothing like that? Were you ever a member of the NAACP or SFLC or

any civil rights groups?

S: No. No.

I: Okay. What church do you belong to?

S: The methodist.

I: Methodist. Are you an official in your church?

S: Trustee.

I: Trustee? Are there any other community organizations or activities

that you're involved in. I know you've mentioned a number of them here.

S`: y^o^^^'o4- &JA\ 4-UA 4^e...

I: Okay.

S: All except the few--some that's been added, but there's about seven

right here.

I: Okay. Okay. American Legion, Masonic Lodge, Teacher's Associations.

Okay. What is or was your father's occupation?

S: Common laborer.

I: Do you know of any other black elected officials in this area?

S: Yes, I know two. One is in Tallahassee, a Mr.--I believe he's only--

or he's also an instructor I think out at the school system. I can't

think of his name right now.

I: Mr. Ford?

S: Yeah, Mr. Ford. And there's one down at--oh, I know about the one

down here in Ft.--in Crestview or Ft. Walton, I can't--it must be in

Crestview. But I met him at the Joint Center.

IR Uh huh.

S: He's a tall, dark-skinned fellow. He's in the school system also. I

can t--

I: Okay.






FB 37A Bridges

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S: I can't--

I: We might be talking to him. I think it's him in Crestview.

S: Yes, well I've met him.

I: Probably later today--uh, Allen--Samuel Allen.

S: Yeah, that'shim. That's him. Well, I met him in Atlanta.twice when

I was up there.

I: Okay. That's--

S: You may keep that if you want it.

I: Thank you. Geim, I'd appreciate it.

S: Yes, as'I said, that's-nst brought int-..,

I: This is when you ran for mayor or--

S: That's city councilman.

I: City councilman, I see.

S: Yes.

I: Here it is.

S: See, I'd just make up those and pass them around.

I: Ward number three?

S: Right.

I: Okay.


End of Side 2-FB 37A




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