F: Have you been here all your four yrs.
S: N I finished my first 2 yrs. at Daytona
F: Why did you come here?
5 S: It was less expensive and I llke a large school
F: Where are you from? How expensive is Betha?
When I was there it was about 750 per semester? about 2000
F: I had no idea that it was so expensive. Are there any scholarships avail.?
S: Right, scholarships, fin. aid, work study. It is a Methodist school.
Daytona is a small town. I had planned to go to Washington, B..C. to
Howard but I didn't get accepted until very late and I had already made
plans and I couldn't afford to go outofstate and so I came here. I was
a Fla residetn and it was inexpensive and it is close to home.
F: What did you think when you got the questi?
S: The main reason that I sent the question. back was that the questions were
reasonable and that it is about time that someone did work on valid questions.
See what the results are, I think that it will make it better for studetns
who come later on. I was hoping that the resluts would be used for change.
F: What school did you go to in Jax.? Do
would have liked to add to?
S: not really I think that you could have
students choose to come here.
you remem. any questions that you
gone to greater detail bs to why
f: Have you spoken to any other studetns who got the question.?
S: My roommatelhe filled it out
F: How many studetns do you think will sedd it back?
S: Most of the kids that I spoke to will
F; How do you feel since you have been here?
S: The first yrs. was very diffic ult the second and third were pretty
nice. When we first came there weren't maiy blacks here--especiallylthe Ist
3 yrs. it was very difficult, The second yr. I met a guy who had the
same interests that I did and i began to enjpy more freedon.
F: When you bfxtsx Ist got herayou roomed blind--with a 6t-ack
S: Right--we had a pretty good time
F: It seems that is really a point of contention
S: I was prepared for a hazzle--he didn't come until later than I did and I
had just about bade Yup my mind that there wo Id be a hazzle.
F: WAs 64 he a freshman?
S: No he was a soph--the same class, that I was--he was in journal iWf8X sm
He showed me the tric ks of the game that it takes some kids a quarter
to learn--so I had a pretty good roommate--you lean the game. I wished
i had been more relaxed--then I could have put out more than I did--I
am much more relaxed with popele now.
F: What about prejudice
S: He was fr9m Miami; we never did talk about it--but there were some tidbits
F: Do you recall any?
S: Noot about racial things--but I borrowed his umbrella one day and he
got caught in the rain.....and he left a little not e on the door that
he wanted his umbrella and I jumped on him and we diveded the room in half
F; How are you doing in school.
S: Pretty well=much better than I was--pretty well.
I got average grades, I could do better
F: How do you think most blac ks do?
S: Initially C"S oorD's--some of the kids that I came with--some of them
have very good grades the first two yrs. and then hit bootom in the jr.
yr. because inthe first two yrs. they don't have many act-e;i-+es and
S; The first quarter I really studied and did well and that really suxfpkizek
(supxi surprised some of my teachers from the way they looked.
One of my insturstors in CSS said that blacks usually have trouble in
F: Most of the blacks that I have talked to mention the jon-academic things
that bother them--like no social life and if they don't have a date they
are hung up which is pretty common among white students. What
do you think about social things on this campus?
S: when I first came here I lead a pretty active social life--you begin to
take more things for granted--likedates and you come here and it is com-
pletely changed--especially there are few girls here and there wasn't
much to do with the girls in the black community. It takes time and I
really didn't have the time. At first we used to go home
every other weekend
F: Did you come kxax here from Bethenum with several other studetns?
S: Only one and I knew several guys wholgraduated from my high school
who were going here.
It is sort of like a big brother attitude here now and I have found
that freshman and soph studetns are more s6 outgoing now than they were
and I ddnt think they have much trouble socializing.
F: Is there a lot of socializing with people off campus?
S: quite a bit--guys date off campus or date white girls
When you first come here you are very clannish and it is no fun dating
somebody in you r classes you see them everyday A~ unless you are
q serious. There isnt much stimulation for dating when someone is
frmm the same grp. or very much like you--you know everything there is
to Inow after a couple of dates. Same HS.--and then you don't see them
for a white --and then they looked them up on this campus anf for I/
white they are socailly active but for black studtn5 and you get to know
them--particularylyif you stay in the same dorm eS--soyou take classes
together, see each other--there is no incetnive for dating there is nothing
to find out. I guess a lot of guys want to be with a new girls
F; One of the resaons giveem me that black girls are hard to get on this campus
is that thdy feel the black guy is -tazte~4g,to them--intellectually
S: Is that right--no I couldn't that--threatening intellectul~--no
F: Is that black girls are ;used to a matriarchy and they don't want the
black guys to take over-- and obviously some Black guy at this campus would
be that kind of threat?
S: I d6nt belive that--no crediabli'y at all--you get the attitude that you
S: And they are closer together it begins to become annoying--all the little
day by day things. I don't see this repeessed intellectually hostiallity
In fact I know guys who ask girls to help them with th&ir studies--so
I don't see that at all.
F: They said that girls would rather date local guys because they have cars,
S: I can see that and also a guy off-campus has a much wider range of activities.
SHe knows the comnmfth nightspots, he doesn't have to be rich but
he takes you out to a mighttlu ...he is a member of the in crowd.
The guys who came here at t beginning were interested in theri studies
more than anything else. I know that I was that way--I had to 1 prove
a point--and I really just didn't have the time for social affairs.
If you ttart dating a girl you will have to call her--and what I call
putting time, you have to see her just generally shoot the breeze
with her and this is standard operating procedure and I personally
even now get very very annoyed withdoing this and I imagine a guy
off-campus is 4i40$#Q / challleneged--he doesn't know this girl and she os
9AU at the UF and many of the girls here are good looking and he can invest
the time--dropping in on her# unexpectedly. But it no fun Walking from
Murphee to Jennings,
F: What about black white dating?
S: Some it goes on--not much......I think that those who say that is the rule
rather than the exception are exgaterating. Some guys date white girls
Ssoldy white girls--but these guys get around and what can I say. I know
a couple of girls who dated white guys and a couple of guys who dated white
gitls and It getsKto be a tramanic experience after a hite First.
they start going thru these changes--his interests all of a sudden chage
S like walking a dog on campus on a chain--like most black studetns don't
walk dogs on chains. Look on the Plaza of the Americas-- and you will see
0J6/ them--and the more exotic the dog the better.
Somebody to gross you out. L ke we'll see you later, most black kids never
say that. I asked him why he'said that and he said he doesn't kno. It
is little things like that. They start criticizing black girls
like maybe she is ttoo loud or she shouldn't say this or that and girls
notice thest things And if a guy is dating a white girls and there
are blac klgirls there he shows indifference Why? Maybe
because they have been repressed and haven't haad as many changes to express
themselves Mapy things that a white guy takes for granted the black
guy cant do. For example, if a white guy graduates with a B average and
has a favorable impression ontheinterviewer then he will get several job
offers. Whereas until recetnly a black guy who had an above average wouldn't
get any offers--the female is tied very much into this--it is a form of
xaagx conquest. And t ere is that certain mistake that white girls have
about black guys and vice versa. So txere is a great deal of discovery.,-c
iLkU AD <
f; K Why does he put down the blackgirls?
S: I don't think he does it intentionally--but in comparison the black girl
suffers--I don't think that is a passing phenomea. Like in Baldwin, there
is always a black guy who thinks that he has arrived but he doesn't
actually until he has a white mistres or wife......Like
in Reconstruction, you will notice that the best black guys had
white HXf#/ wives.
F: Talking about the new Black revolution--things have changed- might go
beyond that change quickly. You can read about something 10 times
and do it once and you will remember it better from doing it that once
than reading about it 10 times.
Even thou a person is aware of the past and the things that one goes thru,
he has the attitude that it can never happen to me. When you get
near the 1problem--dating a white girl--you don't see how you are
changing. You hav e i6Od/ valid reasons but it is a cop-out.
It is naviee to thnik that if a good looking gurl XAX OJAlX 0'AX
walks by that you wont get someJind of reaction--perhpas he should date
F: white girls.--but that should'16 his reasonfor living, but not that
he cant stand black girls or understand them after t hat. What happens
during that time is what is important--
I used to tease-- my uncle told me about his, he graduated from college
and went to NYC and got married and he told me about the black guys
Swho come to NYC, first they cultivate a NY accetn--like they have been
there 2 days and like wow and then they date black girls and the
black girls intro. them to white girls and they date white girls--
white Jewish girls--and he told me but it didn't register because I was in
a black HS and then I got here I bwgan to see a pattern--and here the
first white girls that the black guys dated were in most cases Jewish
Like we would be talking about whites and there would be a Jew sitting there
and he would say don't talkJ# about whites I am white too,A/Aj/ and we
would say 'you're not white, you're Jewish.' But you're Jewish then you're
white and I guess that most black studetns look at this way. I remember
when I told a guy that I still bad my roommate, he said I bet he is Jewish
and I said yeah, I guess the reason is thqt Jewish people
have been oppresed and they are more aware [RJthe problems. Most Jewish
that I know don't try to hide it. I do know several girls who have had their
SF: You made this statement,'that dating a Jewish girl is a transition to
dating a rTa white girl'
S: Right, it is higher status to have a real white girleseee-iy a
girl in a sorotoriy. Jewish girls are like black girls they are loud.
F: What about social things on this campus?
S: I thibk that every studetng goes thru a transition perios in which he
questions why he is here
S: Like my uncle wanted me to go to Fisk and why didn't I and join a
black frat and become a big man on campus and at times It is a big problem
Was it because I know the status for a black to gr ad from UF, more opport.
for employ., and that I had gone here 4 yrs. and had no problems
'nd this would show that I could ablond with white people. It is
very difficult to deter. bhy you do something if you thing about it you
might sya just because I wanted to but I was really ........I started
reading more especailly black lit. Vand this whole idea of assisiminlation
vs. separation, you becin to see patterns especially this
hang up with HomeosexuallJ ity (Baldwin) you really being to quesiton
in your 06a own mind your motives and in most cases ..... $i/i~i/ because
there is a black cultural revolution and most of these thiggs are thgt.
out for them and they can see how other solved their problems
so this mean that black students don't have that initial hang up so they
can go in other acitvities and not worry about being swallowed up. or making mistakes
When I was around white girls, I was very conscious of mdkking mistakes
and it really did cause me a lot of trouble till I began to separate
my thgts. and saw how if any this was going to make a c4M/ change on me.
Most of the blakks who come here now were leaders in high school and they
areas very articulate and they voice their opinions as to the good pts. and
the 1gX bad. They make themselves heard. They begin to feel that they
can do anything they want to and not loose themselves. Like track, chorus,
dorm act. I would like tosee black kids involved in more activities.
One of the reasons that I came here was ROTC, pe act. like handball,
F: Are you in the/100S judo club
S: i never Cid follow that up--wlen I was in the O0th grade--you can get
pushed around--so I took Judo and after taking it--the guy who was teaching
ithe was very wonderful person, The confidence you have, you can walk away
from most things and not woryr. I went here for white when I wanted to
getgin shape but I found that I had lost my basic interest. I play tennis,
handball, running,swimming, this is one of the reasons that I came...
the opport. you have to learn these skills are better here ....for
$60 you can jump out of a pland which doesn't sound too exciting but when
you have it you are unique THere are so many things that you can do
around here for little of no charge that most whote kids take for granted
more black kids should get involved--like studetn govt.--The guy who gets
elected studetn pres.has to talk to peo eon a state and national level
and he has to develop certain skills Even the lower levels even if
you don't sudeed you get to know yourself a little better....doing things
I think that kids should get involved in more things.
F: THe picture you paint is very different form most black students.
S: Maybe because I am older............I jras the kind of person.tbat I Yam
has something to do with it and I guess that I have gotten around a little
more than other kids..
S: L ke this wasn't the first white-black relationship that I have ever been into
ard that didn't phase me. To say that UF is racist is begging the question--
evrywhere in the USA is racist including the great haven of NY--and I
have some immensely interesting things happen to me in Manhatten. That
is like stating an obvious fact.. I would say that the UF is beyond racist
it is something a little more insidious and dangerous. Their way
of life is threatened and it would be the same thing if there
were a large no. of Mexican-Am. or Spanish-Am. of Chinese they
might have it a little easier because--he doesn't think that you are
carrying disease or are going to rape ever white woman you see--it is not
that but that you threaten what they want to portect. Like when they
stared to integreate the school and Ill those good liberals withdrew
their children you are getting to close to home....they don't dislike
black kids it is just that they think their kids can grow more at their
own speed somewhere else. To say that the country is facist is accurate
but you come from that point and you are going to miss some fo the minute
pts. d and you will Oind that as you defing aa person as a racist you
pect certain things form him ...Like O'Connell just because he can shake your
handbecuase he learned a long time ago that it wont rub off--doesnt mean
taht he wont be insidious in his own ways.
F: How would you tell people to deal with the situation here?
S: What can I tell them. For O$XAI0 example, the Italians had a great
culture. You say well, it is interesting to see the Pope andssee wbat
Michangeleo"did but in this country they just don't have the financial,
polictiacl machinery that we have and we cant accept you. And what you
did across the sea is good but I am still on top Y so .........
What can do tell him that we had great leaders in the past and maybe
he will out of the generouslity of his hear accept me, work A4 hard and
eventually you will be let in the great Mecca of Babylon, I don't buy that
and it is really very difficlut what to tell a person. I am
very cynical. Actually I am being very degoratoy because I think their
ideas are navitee. It isidealistic to say that you have washed your soul
off the white ways.
F; Who are the leaders on this campus
S: Mitch Daschun, he operates on a very methodical method he does accept the
predominately white view--I think that they respect him for his intellect
and resources and other than that you are falling into a very common thing
that most white poepl do--and the group of blacks is not a united grp.
F: kThat is exactly what I think, but what I am trying to do--you ask the
average white teacher and those are the only names he knows--Mitch Daschum
S: Well freshman and jr coll transfers tend to.........(end of the tape)
F: W were you before?
S: I was jus working here and then I decide to take courses part time
F: Whyd did you com ere to work?
S: First of all, this was one the few places that I could getAa job
The field in chemistry--especia if you are a recent grad. it is sort
of hard to find a job.,/ When I got i to the field of chemistry, I thgt.
it was a wide open field and once you gra u wouldn't have any problems.
F: Where did you g to college?
S: Bethum-C kman
S: No, the last 2 yrs......that is a 4-yr coll.--it is private coll.....
ANOTHER VOICE (/
S: They tend to follow this person for awh le --like Mitch Dashun, Jesse James
F: Did you know Jesse James? that was a long time ago
S: YES, he was here when I started.. When you admire a person for the things
that he represents--and there is no one around to listen to us and......
if they come together for any point it would be because they believe that
7 this person is so dynmatic but because they belive the pt. is valid..
Like I remember the anniversary of the Supreme court dec sion and kids
came together not because they had a dynamic leader but becuae they
thgt. that the pt. was imp. to their past. They think for themselves
they don't follow anyone's nose. I got to lead my people this way --many
people say theie is dissention, it is not dissetnion but that;the people
are not monotholic they will come together but they will not be shaped into
a mass and be catalogued. I will tell a stoyy about a girl I know from Jax.
who is a freshman and she told me about some comment that had been made in
class, they say something about the racial problem ans she told them about
how things ware in the ghetto. Most of it was accurate; but I happen to
know herd she lives in a split level pad and fer family has 2 caes, the
f closest things that she had been to the ghetto was in Gainesville, but they
were absorbing it like they were getting the word, it is like
watching t.v. and taking a cold shower..........Amish people are moving
into the area and the cows died A0d etc and they blame the Amish people
and Xi diX0$ ~ then they find out that it was an errbr and what they do--go
home and pray and then pay the Amish for the damages done to their home
and this waht whites do--they pay to have their consciences salved.
When white people ask me to tell X$il what my problem is I say' which Way
do you want me to come--I have 3 speeches I can give, the conservative
speech in which I will work to integrate into the society, the radical speech
in which I tell about the oppeession for the many yrs., or I can give the
middle of the road........'I am very serious......... I haven't decided
F: IS that a cop-out
: No, I haven't decided...........Like integration of the schools, whenever
a school is phased out it is a black school A, like with black educators,
like theie are good black educators but you don't want them teaching your
F: What happened to all the good black schools?
S: IN 1927, Harvard made a study of the black schools in Am and he said
that they weren't any good and people screamed and thy screamed loud
and it is interesting thing the morms and evaluations you just don't have
and this was a fairly liberal guy. I try to get information, and think
FL Are you involved with any organizations at UF
S: ROTC, I could never join a frat
S: Gyys who have been in the army for 30 yrs W/Oi are thegreatest goof-oofs
ever--they know what it is all about--that the army is A not a machine
marching across Eurppe to protect the homeland....they put in 8-5 and
go home tb their wives and forget it. This is radically different form
the guy who when you first go to class says I don't like people missing
my class, don't come late to may tests....he wants to break you......people
say that RoTC gives structure and I am saying there are certain things that
you can do and certain things that you cant....it is not c ompletly
authoritarian, butsome of them tou don't cross and liv e to tell about it.
I found that I had many political science teachers who are much more author
tarian and dictoral than officers in the cadre over here, primarily because
they don't have anything to prove and they are dealing with a selected grp.
of guys who are out there because he want to be. KAnd if he is indifferent
or something, they send him a letter saying that maybe ROTC is not for you
When those guys take off their uniforms you cant telell them form adam,
they are going around defending the policy of this country in fact many
of them are think ng men. Ask studetns who good teachers are, and
they will invariably tell you wrong.
F: Dont you think that there are poeple th.t you can trust more than other?
S: No,l know one guy--it depends on what you want out of the course--HE
is a PHI Beta Kappa member and he ways there is not such a thingA as a
good teacher. Like he said I guess the things that I want I bet and the
other--it is up to me. Like the average student wants to be entertained
Like Prof. Battley(?) I think he is the worst prof and should be gotten
Rid off he lectures from notes 5 yrs.--he puts on a good show--he has 400
studetns 4 times a week --he cant help but win.
ANOTHER VOICE (FIRST?)
S: Things to do on campus is very limited and night life is .........once
I leave work I am beat and I have to go home and study a couple hrs.
that is my leisure time I don't have any
F: Socially what do you do in Gainesville?
S Bowling, go to the movies there isn't anything else to do that I like to do
that is it. Usually I go home to Ocafla My boyfriend lives in Ocala.
When I was dating on campus--a couple of grad studetnst I was dating--
the only place we went were bowling to movies or friends houses for coffee
But I haven't dated anybody but Frank for a long time I wouldn't have gone
even if I were asked because the guy that I am engaged to I have been
going with a long time and I wasn't interested in anybody else. If I
weren't engaged and there was a white guy who asked me for a date, I woudl
Probably go--I don't see anything wrong with it. As far as most black
people they don't ifieel that way baybe deep down, I don't know
F: Hew do they feel?
6: That they wouldn't date one for nothing in the world.
But if the guy is nice, he likes me and we go somewhere interesting, I
don't see anything wrong with it, If you want to suffer the consequences of
what your friends way--those that are extremely radical but as far as
my familythey would accept it if that was what I wanted but most of my
friends they would go fbo it
F: I have heard that a lot of black guys date white girls have you heard that?
S: I don't know form personal experience becuase I don't know anyone but I'
have heard guys say that they have dated whit e chicks and it is probably
true. I guess they want to seep all the black girls for themselves..
IF I weren't' engaged I probably would date white guys.
F: Do ;you resent black guys dating white girls.
S: Not as long as my guy doesnt--date anybody
Not just white, white anybody, take rfy brother for instance he can date whom
he pleases I think right now he has a couple of white girlfriends in HS
F: How are you doing in school?
S: When you take a few courses you don't get an an average....I took one course
and got a C, Dr Norall teaches it, and another I got a B and the philo.
courses that I am taking I am doing good in it. All the courses I take are
300 or above because anything under that dolesnt count.
S: The only reason that I got a C in the Botany course was that I keep goofing
off and waiting till the las min. to sudy but I don't find the courses
addAnamd I don't mind studying, If you can get the material you can get it
and if you cant you cant but I don't have any trouble
F: Do you feel that there is any difference between here and Bethuen
S: Well there I could about tell what the questions were going to be f/f
Sbut like in that courses I got a C in I couldn't tell what He was going
to ask and when I first came here I had to adjust to a new job and a new
academic environment and I J~fd dropped a course CY511 because it
was getting the better of me but I am going to pick it up in the summer.
I am ab student.
F: Do you feel that teachers act any different because you are black?
1S I don't feel that I am treated any different but I guess it is my attitude
7 / I didn't expect the teacher to act any different toward me and treat me
as a student....usually 2 blacks to 35 whites. I haveat seen any
| difference--they seem eager to help me if I have a problem but no more
eager than to help any ofher studetn if they asked
S: Some speak and other don't but that is the way it is everywhere
F: Do student have a different attitude?
S: One incident I can think off--in a core of education class we had a disc.
and there was one part. question asked and this white girl answered this
question I told here 'I don't think that is right--tthe question was ,
we were analyzing a teacher and she bad adm. to rank her and she had a rawdy
class and she couldn't teach the studetns anything academic so set out to
teach them about etiquette and when she went to the principle he wouldn't
hepl her and the girl said that she was looking the fM the easy way out
and I disagreed I aaid'that if she couldn't teach them anything academic
then she should try to teach them etiquette because everything isnt found
in a book and she rolled here eyes and I don't know Rb~gaxx whether she
presented a black person telling her something or whether she just didn't
like being told that she was wrong. But other than that ....no other
kThe way that people look......like thy think that black people don't think
and I am very talkative especially when the teacher aska a question....
some people don't think that blacks can think or walk or talk and they are
amazed and some how surprised when voice an intelligent I epica
ES: Most students don't want to get involved with black students they would
rather go by heresay. It is my nature to be friendly unless I had
pushed too far. Most Negroes--blacks--they resetn the term Negro they
even there are 2 different typees-Negro and black-- I don't know..
F: What about with the tsldlauns secretaries?
S: I was discriminated against when I first came here. I applied for a post.
aasa technician and I came here form Clearmont(?) for an interview I forgot
the Dr.s name but I he told me htat he would call me in 2 days and when
the 2 days passed and he didn't call me I called him and His sec. an*.
and she talked to him but he wouldn't come to the phone and she told me
that I didn't get the job and I asked why and she said that I didn't
have enough chem. but the job only paid 5300 and You cant hire someone
with a Master degree for that salary and I told here so and
then I came for another interview and everyone seemed very nice This
was in the soil dept where I word now And they sent me a condolence
card when my father died and I haad only been wriking there for ab olt
F: You mentioned about black, Negro and colored--what are you?
S: That is a good question because even I am confused about the
terms. The way it is being said now. I am definitely not
colored, lf6g/ it has not meaning everybody can be colored-white is a color
I guess some of the black studetns on this campus would call me a Negro becaues
I don't have the violent view they have and I don't wear an Afro
F: What do you think?
s: According to sharing the traditions and contributing to black American--
I am a black person I am not denying that that my native home is in Africa
because I don't wear an Afro. Helpin the blacks get ahead is something to
st rive for--like 6roking for the Univ. and even thou it is not
something to be proud of it is an achievement. This is one way of exhibiting
pround in being a blackjperson I could be walking the streets or have
a house full of illegimate kids and be wearing an Afro but that doesn't
mena that I have it in my heart.... and if I thgt. that I looked better
eith an Afro I would wear one.
S: When I wash my hair it is almost like having an Afro, unless I go to the
beauty shop i could easily wear an Afro but 0 don't look better with
one. The people that I respect and that respect me don't think that I
look better w ith one
S: I don't resent blacks calling me Negro--I ask them how they know what I
am usually there is no anw. or why don't you wear an Afro/ I say that
i don't look good with an afro and that is why I don't wear one.
F: Malcohm X said that it is better to be black insides and processed out-
side than processed inside and black outside.
S: True I jdont careWiat they call me Like on the job for instance I know
what I am doing is right, I ask my prof over me to let me leave early, so
sometimes I leave at 4 and when I go out there are remarks "sussanna
you're leaving early." and I say 'Care to go with me" I don't care
what they say! I know that I am doing my job right.. When I got engagedd
they tggt that was funny becuaset they don't think that Negroes get engaged
I got a ring, and I am pregnant I don't have to get married, they couldn't'
belive it and when I said that I might go to the Bahamas for my honey
moon they had never of that....I do have a nice ring....and one girl
in the lab who just got married she said Your rign sort of looks better
than mine" Isaid I'm glad you realized it too. It is sort of funny
because they don't think Megros can do the same thin s that whites can do.