Title: Lenora Wimby
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Permanent Link: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00005767/00001
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Title: Lenora Wimby
Series Title: Lenora Wimby
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Bibliographic ID: UF00005767
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Source Institution: University of Florida
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F: (comment) Lenora Wimby: Lenora is a junior, majoring in Education.

F: All right, you know about this. Now just tell me again, you graduated

from Gainesville...

L: Lincoln.

F: ...at Lincoln High.

L: Um huh.

F: Umh...you went to Santa Fe ?

L: Right.

F: For two years ?

L: Right.

F: And this is your first year here ?

L: Second.

F: So you're a senior ?

L: Um huh.

F: Andyou're in Medical---Medical Technology.

L: ---Medical Technology.

F: Yeah, we actually spent some time talking the other day, but it just

never got recorded.

L: Yeah.

F: I talked to you about how you found things here. Did you spend any time

thinking about the questions we talked about ?

L: Well...a little bit.

F: Um huh.

L: And444



F: WIhat kind of things have you thought about ?

L: Well...I was thinking, we were talking about, you know, social life on


F: Um huh.

L: ...And stuff like that, and how the kids felt. And...really my feelings,

I think, about that are the same as, you know, there aren't as many of us

here, on campus, and plus the fact, there aren't that many groups for us,

you know.

F: Um huh.

L: ...to socialize with, or parties, and activities, and things like that.

And also, I think, some of the students are living off campus, which makes

it kind of difficult to mingle with the kids here.

F: Um huh.

L: Which is another problem, especially for those kids who're living in town,

you know, who are rxely people.

F: Probably---un huh.

L: And that's about most of it right there.

F: How do you feel when you come on campus ? Do you feel, do you think about

being black here very often ?

L: No.

F: Do you feel pretty much that you're just like anybody else ?

L: Um huh.

F: Are you treated that way ?

L: Um huh, most of the time. 0 ne or two occasions you get a...sense the

the feeling of, you know, racism. So...



F: You're talking about students now ?

L: Right.

F: But...what kind of things do you sense ?

L: Well...there're some kids who'll, you know, "I'll talk to you if you say

something to me..."

F: Um huh.

L: Or, "If you ask me something I'll...I'll may---if I've got a question,

you're the only person I can ask, you know, I'll do it..."

F: Um huh.

L: "But otherwise, I won't have anything to do with you."

F: Um huh.

L: And things like that. You, you can kind of sense that, and there're some

kids who'll naturally, they'll come up and talk to you about anything,you

know, just class work or stuff like that.

F: Well, what kind of situation do people come up and talk to you.

L: Oh, ell, somebody'll come and sit down and mention something, maybe writing,

or reading, and some of the kids come up* and just start talking, you know.

F: Um huh.

L: About what they've done on the weekend, and things like that.

F: Black kids ? White kids ?

L: Mostly white, because I...in my class there's only one other...there're

three other black kids in my class, and usually I'm very close with those

three, and the majority of them are white, so I'm mostly in contact with them.

F: Um huh. These are kids you know from class ?

L: Right.

F: What about your instructors ?



L: Well...mostly they're pretty good. One of my councilors, I didn't have very

much to do with...because I know...like when I register, go set my classes

and everything...

F: Um huh.

L: There are two councilors that you can talk to, and I usually talk to one

of them, more than the other one, because...

F: Why is that ?

L: Well they...one's a fairly young lady, and the other one's kind of oldish,

more like set in her ways, you know...

F: Um huh.

L: "You do it my way, and nobody elses," you know,..

F: Um huh.

L: Or, "No other way." And I don't think that's right. So, the other one I

usually talk to, she's very liberal, and she's understanding, and she listens

to what you have to say...well why you want to do or take the classes,that

you want to take...and things like that.

F: Um huh.

L: And then she'll sit down and tell you, she says, "Well I'll show you why

you have it set up this way, and why you think you should take these classes,
and how they most help you," and things like that. But the other lady,

she'll just say, "Well these are the classes, this is the schedule, that's

it, nothing else."

F: Yeah, does that have anything to do with your being black though ? I mean,

no doubt, there're certain coungilors that are better than others, you know.

L: I know. Well yeah, this...I don't think that has anything to do with it,

but also I've been having a little trouble with my scholastic average...



L: You know ?

F: Um huh.

L: And they told me when I got there, "The competition is real tough," and

everything, and I imagine they say that to everybody, you know. You still

don't know...because some of them are like that...and...because I talked

with some...one of my classmates, well not classmates now, and he said that

he ran into a lot of trouble with one of his professors.

F: How is that ?

L: And... Well, he said, I think it was an English Course, or something like


F: Um huh.

L: And they had papers to write and things, and one paper he wrote was on his

personal experience on a vacation or something like that, and the professor

asked him for a bibliography on it. Now how can you give a bibliography

on something that you...that's personal to you.

F: Yeah, but what was the assignment ? Do you know ?

L: Uh, to write on a personal experience, or something that you felt strong-

ly about, stuff like this.

F: Um huh.

L: And, so he got a pretty bad grade on it because he didn't have his bibli-

ography, so the next time he said that he wrote another paper, and he got

it directly from a book... t1^ he wrote the bibliography, got a 'B' on it.

F: Um huh.

L: And...another paper he did, he wrote his own views and everything, and he

did a bibliography, and he still got a bad grade. And he talked to the



L: ...professor, and he said, "Well Negros and Jews...can't do any better than

a 'D' grade, and that's what I'm going to give you." That's what he got.

F: Who said that ?

L: I don't know what the professors name is. All I know is it's in the English

Department. And he said that he took it to the administration and every-

thing, and he said that that was nothing they could do about it, but he

had his papers and everything, and showed them, you know, why he did what

he did...to test the professor, and they said, "Well," ...he talked with

one of the guys, and he said, "Well, if it was me, I think I would have
1',t/ c'if7/4 CeUorcs
given you...probably a 'B' t-,thz7-s-tst because of that." But that one

paper, he knew, came direct from the book.

F: Um huh.

L: But this other professor gave him a 'B' on it, you know.

F: Um huh.

L: And he said things like that have happened to him, but I hadn't come into

talk with anything that...like that. I mean, most of the people are kind

of nice.

F: The professor said Negros and Jews can't get better than a 'D' ?

L: Um huh, because they don't have the capability

F: I find that hard to believe anybody would say that. Some people might

feel that way...

L: Right.

F: ...but I doubt that anybody would say it.

L: Well this is what this guy told me, and this is just, well it was hearsay,

I couldn't say for sure he was saying this stuff.

F: Right. Can you think of any other incidents, either to you, or to friends

of yours, that have happened ?




L: No...then uh, most of the professors I've had, especially in the Bacter-

iology Department, are going really out of their way to make things real

nice for me. And...I've even given...been given a second chance to do

better, you know. Say, "Well I'll give you some make up work," or stuff like

that,"Maybe help you out." And they did, and I got better grades as a result

from it. And the professor we have now...he originally planned three exam-

inations, and the first one he gave, we got back today, and the grades were

pretty good on it, so he gave us a option; we could take the exam Friday,

and if we do pretty good on it we don't have to take the final, or we can

take that one Friday, and if we don't do as well on it we can still take

the final,and help us out, you know.

F: Um huh.

L: And things like he said, "I'll do anything to help you get an 'A' out of

the course." And he does.

F: What course is that ?.

L: Bacteriology...umh...Pathogens, Fibrostics.

F: Um huh.

L: And he's real nice, and he's always in lab with the students, and the student

instructor, so if you have any questions,the student instructor doesn't

answer to your satisfaction, you ask him. He's always there, walking

around, and stuff. And he gives you, you know...well gee, he's really doing

his job. This is what he's here for...

F: Um huh.

L: You appreciate a professor like that.

F: When you said, uh, they've given you second chances to do make up, and

stuff like that...

L: Um huh.



F: ...do they do that for everybody ?

L: Well I don't know...I don't think he knew that I was black, or anything like

that. He said, he called me to his office, he said, "Well now, I figure

you're Med-T and I know that you can do this information," I mean,

"You know this information, and you can do better on it."

F: You're what ?

L: Black.

F: No, no, Med---

L: Med-Technologist.

F: Oh, I see. um huh.

L: Well studying to be anyway. And he sais, "Well I know that you're a

student in this field, and I feel that you can do better. So, I'm going to

test you again. I'm going to ask you, or give an oral exam, and just sit

and talk with you, and then I'll go from there."

F: Um huh.

L: Because, I know a lot of times I get up--kind of uptight on examinations.

Get all nervous, and you know, like...say in the community, my parents say

well you know, "You've got to pass at the university, because a lot of people

are looking for you to fail."

F: Um huh.

L: And I found that true, because, in talking to some people, they.say, "Are

you still in school?", and I'll say,"Yeah, still at the university." She

said, "Oh! You're still at the university?", you know, and like...

F: These are black people ?

L: Yeah. You know, like, 'Gee Whiz', you know, "I thought maybe you would be

out by now," or something like that. And I've talked to a lot of the

other kids, and they say this has happened to them too.




L: They say, "Well gee, you know, she's really something. I thought she

wouldn't be able to hold up under the pressure," and stuff like this.

F: Um huh.

L: And...also, I know some of the kids who have moved on campus, with them,

in their case, because it's cheaper than living out. And many of them

moving over to the other side now, you don't care for the black community

anymore, and stuff like this. And it's not only high pressure in school,

but on the outside as well. So you hav---you're thinking all about that,

and when you take exams and stuff, you're all got to do well on that, you


F: Um huh.

L: ...You've got to make at least a 'B', or something like that, to stay in

school. And plus the fact that I am on probation...it's an added, like

stress or something.

F: How're you doing this quarter ?

L: Well this quarter, so far, I think I'm doing pretty good.

F: Um huh.

L: I made an '87' on my mid-term exam...

F: Um huh.

L: ...and I'm pretty satisfied with that. And in my Med-Tech classes, I

think I'm doing pretty good. I have an average of a 'C' in there.

F: Um huh.

L: So...which is a lot better than I have been doing. And...but I do have

some complaints about my laboratory in Bacteriology.

F: Why is that ?



L: It's the student instructor...I think...well, say the doctor will give us

the laboratory procedures, maybe...an hour or two before class or something,

and all the kids don't have time to read it over because they have other c

classes, you know.

F: Um huh.

L: And...

F: How do you get them ? How do you pick them up ?

L: Oh, he gives them out in class. They're mimiograph sheets and things.

F: Um huh.

L: And...they say, well, you know, "I've got another lab to go to, and I

don't have time to read them." You know, walking back and forth from

classes, you know 9qt takes g time too. So when you get there, that's

your real opportunity to read over it. When you're getting in...when you

first get in lab. And when you ask him questions and he feels, "Well gee,

you've had this thing long enough...to know what you're doing, where you

shouldn't have to ask me questions, you should have had all your questions

asked a long time ago...", and things like this. And he acts like, "I

don't want to be bothered," you know, you---your '500' level course, I

mean, you should know your information, and stuff like this.

F: Um huh.

L: But there are a lot of other things that he has to take into consideration

like that. And the other day...he gave a little short quizz, uh what we

were supposed to be doing, and things like this. He asked two questions,

but now, he sat there, and first he say---he---told us what questions they

were, you know, just verbally, he didn't write them on the board or


F: Um huh.



L: And...we were supposed to write the answer to them. Now all right, I began

to write the answer, and then he starts talking about the question then.

I said, "Well maybe I better listen," you know, "He may add something else

to it." So I stop writing, and I listen to him. He stops talking. He

says, "Well you got half a second," I mean, "Half a minute left." And,

well how can you answer a question, two questions in half a minute.

F: Um huh.

L: And when he comes around and takes up the paper, I said, "Well let me

finish the sentence at least." You know, he says, "No,II'm sorry. That's

it." I said, "Well pan't I finish the sentence," you know, and he's like

pulling the paper from my hand. He says, "Well you're not going to get credit

for it anyway," and things like this. And his attitude is kind of bad.

F: Um huh.

L: And we talked to the doctor about it, and he said, "Well don't worry about

it, I'll take all that into consideration when I'm grading you." But still,

he's going to have to have to have some kind of idea for what we've been

doing in lab, you know, to give us a grade. So, I don't know, that kind

of bothers me a little bit.

F: Are you active in any student. organizations ?

L: No...not on campus anyhow.

F: Why is that ?

L: Well, Lamlda Tau is a professional Sorrority...

F: Um huh.

L: ...or fraternity, or whatever it is, and because of my average I can't join

that right now. You have to have a 'C' average for that. And...other than

that I really don't have time...



F: Um huh.

L: You know, back and forth to classes...plus that I'm a type person that

really has to read and re-read the information. So...I figure it's best

I just stick to my studying, and nothing else.

F: Are you a member of BSU ?

L: No, I haven't been at any of the meetings, or anything like that.

F: Have you been approached as far as becoming a member ?

L: No...they said, "Well why don't you come to meetings?", you know, I said,

"Well all right. Tell me when they're going to be held," and stuff like

this. They says, "O.K. we'll call you and let you know." Nobody calls me.

F: Well, aren't hte meetings usually every other Thursday ?

L: Yeah, but see, I don't know that. I mean, I said, "Well when are they?"

They said, "Oh we'll call you and let you know."

F: Um huh.

L: I said, "O.K."

F: Who...who talks to you ?

L: Well, first time I talked to Steve Baker. You know, he's the big thing

about this stuff. And then, the kids in my class say, "Well are you

coming to the meeting tonight?" You know? "Tonight ?" You know? Well,

I've already got some of my studying set up, you know, what I have to do...

Maybe I put something off from the other day, and I have to do it that

night. So I can't take time out...

F: Um huh.

L: So that's a kind of a conflict there. So, and then too, a lot my parents

they, you know...most of the things like that are militant and stuff, you

know, "Don't get mixed up'in it."



F: Your parents told you that ?

L: Well, no. They didn't tell me, but you, you can sense things like that

sometimes. Because a lot of the things...the meetings that they have, all

the Afros and things like that. They kind of...I don't know, look down

on it sometimes.

F: Your parents look down on what now ?

L: Well, some of the kids...some of the kids have Afros., you know, and the

bleached jeans and stuff like that, you know. Or automatically he's a

violent militant or something like this, you know...

F: Um huh.

L: They don't understand it...you know,.. They say, "Aw he should be a clean

cut person. You know, nice clean clothes, and stuff like this. Don't

look like you are a tramp, and things... But that's just the style of the

clothes now-a-days, and they don't like it...they can't accept it.

F: Um huh. Do you try to explain to them ?

L: Well, we try to talk to them sometimes, and...but, you find that...well...

you're not getting anywhere. So...

F: What have you tried to tell your parents ?

L: Well, I say like...take like, Florida Memorial, they had that thing down

there. Well, it's a new school...

F: Um huh.

L: They're going to try to inte...raise tuition, and things like that, and thi---

all the dormotories aren't finished, and what have you. Well, they're letting

the administration know it, I mean, we have no reason...to raise the

tuition. You know, we don't have all the facilities as it is, and you're

going to give us...say, "Pay more money for what ?"



F: Um huh.

L: So I had...they're, raising their voice about it, you know, and she says,

"Well I don't see why they just don't make a petition or something, why

do they have to act out like that?",and things like that. Well a lot of

times, you've made---got to have like this, sign petitions, and things like

this, and you send it into the administration. Sometimes they just let it

sit there...

F: Um huh.

L: You don't get any action, but if the majority of the students say, "Well

let's go show, by ourself...by being there, that this is what we want."

You get more of a reaction that way than you would by just signing a

piece of paper. They'll look up to you more...pay more attention to you


F: How do your parents feel about people wearing Afros. ?

L: Well it depends. If it's a nice kept hairstyle, you know, they don't care

too much. I mean they'll, they'll accept it. Because...I have a girl-

friend, who wears it. She lives right down the street from me, and they

don't say anything about that; but there are some kids...there are two

boys next door to me who have the Afro. They're not very well kept and

stuff, and they say, "Oh she---he needs a haircut!", and things like this,

you know. And because of that, they say, well you know, "Well he's not

going to amount to anything," and all this type stuff.

F: Because of his hair ?

L: Well no. All of that, then sometimes...well...one of them is going to
school. Well now, she says that's fine, he's trying to make something of

himself, but at the same time, she'll contradict herself, and you know,

turn around, and downgrade him like that, because of his dress and stuff.




F: What kind of things does she say ?

L: Well, she hasn't talked about it all of the time, but...we had a tree in

the back yard, and he cut it down, and he came over and did it for us,

you know...

F: Um huh.

L: And....well he had on working clothes, you know, jeans, and sloppy shirt, rw/ fo

h4q'r-a well, I'll admit, it wasn't well kept. The hair wasn't anyway, and they
were kind of taA g, and she really got down on him about it...

F: Um huh.

L: Well, the parents, they don't make that much money, and it's a very large

family, you know...

F: Um huh.

L: So I said, I mean, well that's the best they can do. I mean, so I don't

bother with them now. I mean, they're human beings, they have feelings,

and everything. They may not look like anybody else, and look like what you

want them to look like, or think they should look like; but that's no

reason to think of them thqt way, you know.

F: Do you think uh...people that, let 's say, Afros, do you think that

stands for something more to your mother...than just that she doesn't

like the way their hair looks ?

L: I don't know.

F: You know people feel that way about whites too...

L: I really don't know.

F: But you know, whites with long hair, it's more than they just don't like

the way they look...

L: Yeah.



F: People with the long hair...they seem to stand for something different

from the people with short hair.

L: It could be, I really can't say for sure.

F: Um huh. When you get your average pulled up, are you planning to become

active in any of the other organizations ?

L: Well, I'd try.

F: 1it would you like to be in ?

L: Well first, I'd like to join the Lambda Tau because it's...it would look

good, you know...

F: Um huh.

L: ...on your records and everything. Plus it's uh...you have time to really

come into contact more with your peers, and everything. And you meet more

of the doctors...because c9-they come in and discuss things with meetings,

and things like this.

F: Um huh.

L: And you feel more of a Med-Tech, sort of...

F: Um huh.

L: More of...in with the organization type thing.

F: Right.

L: And...I would like to go to some of the BSU meetings...I never have.

F: Well why are you interested in being---in being in BSU ?

L: Well because there, you can meet more of the black kids, you know. And I've

noticed that I walk around the campus sometimes, and I see a black kid
I/ ,I
coming up, you know, I smile and say 1i, and he'll look up and everything

...Hi...and that's it. And I say that---

F: Why ?



L: I don't know. Well, I guess because they don't know me...

F: Um huh.

L: And things like that, but you know, still that's not...you shouldn't say,

you know, Hi, like maybe it...you just say it to be polite, and nothing

else. So...

F: Do you think you'd get to know more black students then ?

L: Um huh.

F: Do you date on campus ?

L: Oh, once in awhile.

F: But not very often ?

L: No.

F: How come ?

L: Well mostly because my boyfriend is going to Miami, and I am... cea very

close to him. And some of the kids that I've come in contact with, I uh...

most of the med-students, and some of them are older than me, and they have

older friends, you know,..

F: Um huh.

L: I feel sort of out of place with them. And they talk about things that have

happened in the hospital, and there I am just sitting listening, you know,

I have nothing to contribute. And that's about...that's about it.

F: You spend most of your time out at the hospital ?

L: Um huh.

F: You don't get up this way too often ?

L: No, just for the...just this Mc Carthy Hall.

F: Um huh.

L: That's all. You know, I'm there all day, so, you know...

F: Do you date only black students ?




L: So far.

F: Have...whites have asked you out?

L: No.

F: Would you go out ?

L: I don't know.

F: Have you thought about it ? You must have thought about it.

L: No, I don't think that I would...because of my parents probably. I don't

see any reason why not.

F: You wouldn't, but you can't think of any reason why not ?

L: Um huh.

F: Well, I'm not going to let you get away with that. You'll have to explain


L: Ha, Ha, Ha O.K. Well all right, you've got my parents first to think

about o.k. ? And well, you're black, stick to the black race, you know ?

And, well all the white kids, they think, well gee whiz, because I know

there're some black kids who are going with white girls, and black girls

going with white boys, and things like this; and they say "Um?", you know.

/Hw they got together, and you know, what they see in each other and stuff

like this, you know. Ad see why he want to marry her.,?

F: Um huh.

L: ...or things like that, you know. I'd say, "Gee whiz, what difference

does the color make if you like the person?" You know. You're all

human...so if you find some white person you like better than a black

person, why not ?

F: How do your parents feel about that ?



L: I don't know. We haven't discussed it very much. But to tell you the

truth, I don't talk with them very much.

F: You mean about anything ?

L: Yeah.

F: Has that always been ?

L: Um huh.

F: Would you like to ?

L: I would.

F: Do you make overtures to talk to them ?

L: Well'we try sometimes, and then I found a lot of things happened to me in

high school, people would come back and tell them about me, and you know.

And they would confront me with it, and I'd say, "No it's not true." And

then later on, I find out she's been checking up on me. And she doesn't

believe me.

F: Um huh.

L: Or believe anything I say. So what's the use, you know, in talking to


F: What kind of things ?

L: Oh, let's see...some of them are personal...well most of them are to tell

you the truth. It's kind of hard to discuss.

F: Do you think there is more of a need for black students on this campus ?

L: I think so.

F: How do you think that would change things ?

L: Well...I wish if you got more black students, and then the administration

is going to realize that you've got all these kids here...you're going to

have to do something, not only for the whites, but for the blacks as well,

you know.



L: There's organizations, and clubs, and things, and stuff like this.

F: Um huh.

L: And that's...right now, you have a little bit of it, but not a whole lot.

Get some more.

F: What kind of things do you think would be different if there were more

blacks here ?

L: Well...one thing, I think you would have more black professors be here.

A lot of kids say they need them. Because if there's a need for them,

you're going to hire them anyway.

F: Why aren't there more black students here ?

L: Because it's tough. A lot of the kids, I've talked to in my neighbor-

hood, feel that, you know, they say, "Oh, you're going up to the university."

Or, "You're smart," and stuff like that, but that's not so. I mean, I

couldn't even pass the Senior Placement Test...with a decent grade. And

then I was the second highest in the class.

F: On the Senior Placement Test ?

L: Um huh.

F: What did you make ?

L: I made a 267, and a 26--- a 260 something. I wasn't...

F: Out of how many students ?

L: About 140.

F: And you got...that was the second highest grade ? What was the highest

grade ?

L: Uh...340 I think.

F: Where did you go to school ?



L: Lincoln.

F: Is it a he, or a she ?

L: She.

F: Where does she go to school ? To college ?

L: To college ? She started out here.

F: Is she here now ?

L: No, she's married now. I think she's taking a course off-and-on. Until

she gets her degree.

F: Um huh. Who is that ?

L: Uh, Vivian Robinson.

F: I don't know her.

L: You don't ? Well...she was a full-time student, I think, for the first

two quarters, and then she got a job at the Telephone Company...

F: Um huh.

L: And then she would take, you know, one or two courses a quarter, and stuff

like this. But she's still going to go to school. I mean, now she has a

family, it's just...either she goes to school, and her husband works, or

she works, and her husband goes to school. I don't know how they worked

it out yet, because I haven't seen them in a long time.

F: Um huh.

L: But, she is going to continue. I don't know whether they're going to stay

here or not, but she will come back.

F: Yeah. It's funny--- jeM i. .i that black students don't want to

come here ?

L: Well, a lot of the kids, because I'm---there's one girl here, right now,

that says she doesn't like it here, and I asked her why...

F: Um huh.



L: ...and she said, "Because I'm not meeting any black kids." And from the

way she's talking, it's just because...she wants to meet a perspective


F: Um huh.

L: I don't think that's a reason for being in college. I feel, well you

know, you can do that outside of college. Because I'd say, "Well why don't

you let me introduce you to some of the kids I know, that I don't particularly
wfnt to go out with, but you might." You know ?

F: Um huh.

L: So, she said, "All right," you know, "I'll come by, or call," but she never

did. So now, she's, she's going to change, go to Florida Memorial,

Florida A.&M., in September...because of that. She say she doesn't have a

social life here, or anything like that. All she does is come to class.

I said, "Well," I told her, I said, "Well you can make your social life

if you want to."

F: Um huh.

L: You know, "You can get out. Go to BSU meetings, and other things like that,

and go to the parties." So she said, "Well I don't know anybody." And I

said, "Well go to the BSU meetings, learn..." you know, "Get to know the

kids, then they'll invite you to the parties. You don't worry about that."

But...uh...she...evidently she doesn't want to do it. Because she wants to

go to Florida A.&M., where they're predominantly black students there.

F: Um huh.

L: She wouldn't have any problem.

F: Well, you say they don't want to come because uh, they think it's too hard.

Can they get in ?



L: Yeah. They can. Because I feel like...if you don't pass the Senior Place-

ment, there's always Santa Fe, that you start off with, you know.

F: Um huh.

L: Well do like I did. Start at Santa Fe for the two years. Get your A.A.,

and then come on over.

F: Would you encourage black students to come here ?

L: Um huh.

F: See one of the problems we have, is that there's a need for more black

students, and a lot of black students discourage students from coming.

L: Well now, uh...my ex-pastor son is graduating this year, and he wants to

know if it's hard out here...

F: Um huh.

L: And I told him; I said, "Probably the comprehensive courses that you first

encounter will be probably kind of difficult for you." But I said, "If you

go to Santa Fe, and get your A.A. Degree, you've gone through all that,

and your just in your upper classman years," you know...

F: Um huh.

L: "Now you don't...your degree-is kind of specializing then, into what you're

really interested in. It's not so much of a problem."
F: Right.

L: "And then you..." Well, all you got to do is set up:a good study habit,

which I haven't done, in the past, but uhak I'm gradually getting there,

and if you do that you shouldn't have any problem at all. I mean, it's the


F: You think there's a need for more black teachers ?

L: I think so...probably councilors, more or less, than anything else.
F: Mor---counailors more than teachers ?




L: I think so.

F: Why ?

L: Well then you could...teachers too, especially of the...cultural classes

anyway. Because, you know, black students would say, "Gee, he's white,"

you know, "How does he know about us ?"

F: Um huh.

L: And, you know, "He hasn't been through what we've been through. He can't

relate what the book says to what life really is." And things like that.

And the counkqlors, I think, well, you can go to him and discuss black

problems, and he can correlate your problems with what's going on, and at

the same time show you what the other side feels about it. You know, what

their point of view too. Because he's in a position to do that. Where

most of the black schools just think of the black students most of the time.

F: But, what about teachers, do you think it will make a difference if you

have a black teacher ?

L: To me it wouldn't I don't think...but it would be nice-P-11l admit that.

F: Do you think you would feel differently ?

L: No. I don't think so.

F: What about administrators ?

L: Um huh. I think it would be nice if they had some people in the administration

building. I'll admit that. But, I know they have a lot of the black kids

working as helpers and all, but nobody really upd there, to speak out for

the black students.

F: Um huh. How do you think...do you figure that would make people feel better ?

L: I think so.

F: Can you think of any other changes you would like to see here ?



L: Nope. I would like to see the Atheletic Department get some more blacks.

F: Do you...why don't they have more blacks there ?

L: I don't know. A lot of the people say that Graves didn't want it, you


F: Um huh.

L: And therefore, he wouldn't...because,ttake Eddie McShann. Graves could

have got him if he wanted him...he wanted to...

F: How do you know that ?

L: This is my opinion.

F: Do you know him ?

L: I think. Um huh, he lives about six streets down from me. I don't know

him personally, you know, I know him when I see him, and I know his, of

his parents, and you know, a type of feelings for them. But I think if he

pushed hard enough, he could have got him. But then maybe he just wanted

to go out of town. I don't know.

F: Um huh. Why did he go to Gainesville High School ?

L: I don't know.

F: Do people in the black community talk about that ?

L: No. But it could have been, because of some of the things I've seen

previously about Lincoln, having the teaching ability, but nothing to

work with. Whereas Gainesville High School, you've got all of your

equipment and stuff.

F: Um huh. Was he a pretty good student ?

L: I think so. I didn't know him that well, but I think he was,

F: Um huh. Yeah, he must have been pretty good to go to Georgia Tech.

L: Um huh.



F: Before uh....


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