I: ...with Janice McPherson. 'Janice is a black student at the University of
Florida. Where are you from?
I: You've been here...?
S: All my life.
I: Is that right?
I: Did yougo to Lincoln?
I: All of the years at school?
S: Uh, huh.
I: What year are you in? ( Too bad ) I ave a cold.
I: You're a junior?
S: Uh, huh.
I: In what?
I: Did you come directly here?
S: No, I transferred from Santa Fe.
I: Yeah, that's what I was wondering. What did you think of that questionnaire?
S: Well, I thought that you were an interested person in finding out how I felt,
how most blacks feel about the university. Because we express it most of the
times, how we feel, to the Alligator.
I: Do you think the feeling of most black students is heard pretty well on campus?
S: No. Jusa few leaders areheard most of the time, not most of the blacks on
I: Yeah, that's what one of the main purposes of what I'm doing is too often,
people get to say, well, the only people they ever hear are certain black
and whites, you know. You don't know white students any better by hearing
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a couple, of leaders any more than you know black students by hearing a
couple of leaders. So, what I've attempted to do is get to as many blacks,
and get to the "man in the street"attitude, as it were. When you graduated
from Lincoln, had you thought of going anywhere else first?
S: Yeah, I had thought about going to the University of Miami, but then I
changed my mind. Go to Santa Fe and then transfer here because this is
a better school than the University of Miami to my idea and from what I've
heard the standards and everything. And I felt that the challenge also, and
I'm always challenging myself.
I: Why Miami? Why did you consider Miami?
S: Why Miami? Because the fellow I was dating was going there.
I: Oh, very good academic reason! Had you considered anywhere else?
S: No, I didn't want to go to ( ), any of those places. I had thought
about going to Florida Memorial because it moved to Miami, but that was the
I: AWkn did Florida Memorial go?
S: St. Augustine.
I: Right. This is after you graduated from high school.
I: Well, howid you end up going to Santa Fe?
S: Well, I did enroll in Florida Memorial, and I didn't like it. I thought that
they moved the school and they built this new school and I thought it was
beautiful. Everything was just there, and it was half built. We had class-
rooms in any place that we could have them until ( ) or
nothing like that. So I stayed there a week and came home and enrolled in
Santa Fe. Santa Fe hadn't quite started, and I was late registering, but I
started on time.
I: You were down in Miami?
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I: I see. It only lasted a week.
I: Yeah, I think it would probably be sort of, I wouldn't like that, a place
was sort of just getting started, and you feel like...
S: I thought everything was all set though because they had been talking
about moving the school there for about two years, and they were building
and getting the land straightened and everything with construction and
stuff and when they finally moved, I thought they were ready, you know,
and today they're not ready yet. And you probably read about the stu-
dents there. They're striking against this because after they got there
and in the wintertime ou know, it was cold...
I: This is three years ago.
S: This was just this year. They just moved.
I: Oh, I see.
S: Because they thought, too, that everything was ready. They had, these were
mostly students that were in St. Augustine for abouutwo years and then the
school moved. And they didn't have the luxury facilities and they had to
eat food already prepared, you know. They weren't ready for this.
I: When you went down there, it was three years ago then.
S: Oh yeah.
I: Then, that situation still exists.
S: Yeah, I was thinking that I just went down there. Oh, OK.
I: Well, all through grade school and high school, you went to a predominantly
black school and that's sort of a euphemism because you went to black schools.
That's the term: predominantly black, predominantly white, but really black
schools. That's the term they're using now which is a misnomer. Did you have
any apprehension about going to a white school when you first went to Santa
S: Um, hum.
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I: What kind of apprehensions?
S: When I decided to go to Santa Fe, I knew this was where I was coming to the
university because Santa Fe's supposed to be an open door, lead the way to
I: Right, right.
S: And then, after I decided to go to Santa Fe, all the other schools just
faded away because this was the true thing to come here.
I: How was your experience at Santa Fe?
S: What do you mean?
I: Let me just ...
S: I loved Santa Fe. I spend most of my time at Santa Fe now.
I: Is that right?
S: Right. I attend classes here fifty minutes and leave here and go straight to
S: The atmosphere is much better. The blacks Amwn there, they're so together.
(The ) are so familiar with the students. They talk
to them. They sit around. Some of them play card with them, and oh, it's
just like a big family over there. So much different, you know, so impersonal
over here. You go to class over in Norman and five hundred students in this
big auditorium, and the instructor's up there lecturing, you know, for fifty
minutes and, you know, unless you want to get to know him, you have to go to
his office and then, maybe he's not there or something or call him at home and
stuff like that. Being a student and working, you don't have the time. And,
I don't know, it's just like I come here and take lectures, lectures and read
the books and pass or flunk the tests and that's all there is to it.
I: How have you been doing academically?
S: Well, not too good. I have a 3.0 average, but ...
I: Well, that's very good.
S: No, because the way I got it, like I enrolled here in engineering and the
only reason I changed was because of the calculus instructor I had. I just
couldn't, I couldn't do it. He stood there, and he lectured the stuff in-
stead of teaching it, you know. The book, it didn't go into step by step,
it was there, you know, and like you should have learned the book before you
started it, and he didn't make it any better, and I was just turning against
it, but I did OK in this ( ) class. I made a C in it, but you know,
I had hopes. My hope was to be an engineer, you know, and you don't go
through engineering school with Cs, you know. So, the other classes that
I had were easy and that's how I got my As to bring my grade up to a 3 point.
I: Are you saying that you changed what you're going to do for the rest of your
life because of one instructor?
S: Yeah, because the book that they were using, I mean, I compared this book
with another school's book, and it's so much different. The same stuff, I
mean, you get the same basic foundation from it, but it' so much different.
It's so much difficult. I mean, it seems as though the author is trying to
trick the student. He has twisted everything, I mean, not twisted, but it's
there like he wants it to be. But it's just that you have to do so much
extra stuff to get to the point where he could have put it into simpler steps
which I have seen a book so much simpler and just the same stuff and the stu-
dent is doing great, you know. It's not that I want an elementary type basis.
I mean, most of the students in the class had the same problem, you know.
I: Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you. Is that a pretty common feeling in
S: Uh, hum. Right.
I: When you first started at Santa Fe, did you have any problems adjusting, being
that it's a predominantly white school?
S: No. The first quarter I was a little uneasy and a little frightened about
college anyway but that was the only fear I had because I went to class and
when I left, I was in class with a lot of blacks, you know, and this helped
also, a lot like of my friends were in...
I: Do you know offhand how many blacks there are at Santa Fe?
S: Oh, yeah, about six to seven hundred.
I: Oh, really? I didn't realize there wasthat many.
S: Yeah, there's a lot of blacks there. I think it's sort of equal.
I: Well, I doubt that.
S: You doubt that? But there just seems to be. I don't know how many students
out there. Santa Fe has a lot of students.
I: Do you remember any experiences there that...
S: That I didn't like?
S: No. I have hard complaints from a lot of blacks concerning some of the
( ) that they were practicing.
I: At Santa Fe?
I: How much?
S: But I never ran into any. I didn't go to those ( ). I don't
know. If they were prejudiced, they hid it. You know, it's just that I
went there and I went to class and as far as I could see, there weren't, you
know. I participated in classes like all the other students, and they called
on me like they called on the others so I didn't see any discrimination or
I: After having graduated from Santa Fe, did you consider going anywhere else?
I: You had already decided to come here?
S: I didn't have the money, for one thing, to leave my home to go somewhere else.
I: Are you living at home now?
S: Yeah, right. And that helped a lot. And I applied for a loan, and I did get it
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so that solved everything.
I: But did you have apprehensions about coming here?
S: Well, from what I'd heard about it, yeah. But I figured that I could, I
felt strong enough to face it.
I: What kind of things had you heard?
S: Well, it was a white school, and it's not used to blacks being here, and all
the scuffle-bull about blacks coming. Up until now, they could, but now they
can't stop them from coming and whether they wanted it or not, they would
probably show it and stuff like this. I had all of this to think about but
still I felt strong enough to be here.
I: Since you've been here, how's it been?
S: Well, I haven't run into any real problems. Just hat I go my way, and like I
said, I come here, take a fifty minute lecture and leave. I don't participate
in any activities. I go to the library when I get ready. The only discussion
I have with whites are with the instructor that's in the black history course
that I'm taking. And it's a round table discussion but up until now, I
haven't had any real relation with any white, you know, anything like that so
I can't really say until I get into it. This is my second quarter here so I
I: You're not active in with the BSU or something?
I: Oh, you are?
S: Yeah, that's the only relation I have. Not really active. I'm a member. I
attend the meetings.
I: Do you go to most of the meetings?
S: Yeah. And that's about it. I participate in anything that... I support them.
I: Were you at the Black Student Union meeting last Thursday night?
S: Last Thursday night. When they decided to go over to Norman?
I: Uh, hum.
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I: What happened?
S: What happened at Norman?
I: Well, what happened there and then what happened at Norman?
S: Well, the meeting started off with old business and stuff like this and a
big discussion came up and it was, I don't know, everything got out o and.
A lot of students were in a rage, about this, that and the other thing. I
don't really know why there was so much confusion, but they did decide...
I: Well, how did it start?
S: Well, let's see. I don't know, it was like a few students in there who are
leaders and they got all this stuff together before they come and they re-
vealed so much to us...
I: Like what?
S: Like they give us the top issue of what's going on. And unless we sit and
talk about it, we don't ever get to the bottom of it and they keep it all
and like this is what happened. Like I never get to the real meaning of
what is really going on.
I: Well, what took place exactly? You were having the meeting, and it was sort
of a regular kind of meeting, discussing old business and something like that.
S: And then two students started talking about going over. Let's see it was this
play they were presenting ( ), and a black student was in the
play. Ah, let me see how it was. The audience was upset about what was going
on ithe play, about the way... Let's see. Did you see the play? You don't
know anything about it?
I: I know a little bit about it.
S: Well, wherever it was, it was....
I: Who said the audience was upset?
S: A student who had been.
I: And went to the meeting?
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S: And came over... you know. This is how it all started. This is how most
things, you know, you find out about and come back tell the others and, you
know, before you can really get anything settled, you're there. And that's
about, you know, it was about this play and the audience didn't agree with
what was going on, and they decided to go over and they did.
I: Did you go with them?
S: I went over, but I didn't go in or anything. I just caught a ride over.
I: Why didn't you go in?
S: Well, I didn't know what was going on for one thing, and like I said, a few
knew and so they did what they wanted to do. They knew what they were doing,
and like, I didn't and so...
I: About how many people participated?
S: Well, in the meeting, there was about twenty students, twenty five or thirty
students, maybe more, I don't know. But I'll about half of those.
I: So, how many people went over, all in all?
S: Well, everybody left the meeting.
I: So, maybe about fifteen people went in?
S: Uh, hum. Everybody left the meeting, and I believe everybody came over but
who all went in, I don't know.
I: A black student had been at the play?
S: Yeah, right. Some black students had been at the play, and they knew exactly
what was going on and they knew what the uproar and everything was about. What
I: What did they say the audience had done?
S: Well, for one thing that I heard that the audience, some of them left the per-
formance, and then, what is the ( ). I think it has four blacks and
four whites in it, as far as I hard it. I didn't go to the play, and I, but it
depicted 44Y scenW. I think it's something,like, you know, black man, white
America from 1798 to 1957 or something like that. And some people had objected
to the role that black had played, taken.
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I: Was Roy Mitchell at the meeting?
S: Uh, hum.
I: At the Black Student Union meeting?
S: At the meeting, yeah.
I: What did he say about it?
S: Oh, not too much of anything. He didn't discuss it. Steve...
S: ...and Mitch, they really kR} what was going on, and most of the ministers
of the student union, and they handled everything.
I: Had they been at the play?
S: I believe Mitch had.
I: Do you have much student social life on this campus?
S: No. I go to the Union when they have dances there on Friday night, and then
what else? The Rathskeller when they had The Rotary Connection, we went to
that, and I will go the Frolics and fe Superhits on the sixteenth, but that's
I: For the most part, you do your social lives at Santa Fe?
I: And off-campus.
S: Yeah. Like Santa Fe had a dance Friday night, and I went to that. I don't
do too much of anything, really.
I: The dance at Santa Fe, was that like...?
S: It was a concert dance.
I: I don't know what that is.
S: Well, it was in the auditorium, and it's a small space to dance and a large
space to sit down... So this was what was going on.
I: I see. Was that like a predominantly black thing or was that just a student
S: Well, it was a black band, so most of the black students were there. But
there was a lot of whites, like it isnmst of the time at Santa Fe. Whatever
the Afro Student Union is putting on at Santa Fe, it's half and half, maybe
even more whites than blacks there. It's really, it's going to be remarkable
over there because it's, people are really trying to understand. They are
understanding. They are really going out of their way to understand and
face what's what and really accept it.
I: Who are the people you're talking about?
S: Well, the students at Santa Fe, the instructors, most of all, the students
because they do get a long a lot. You can see the races and the differences
between them, but not as much as you can see them talking together and stuff
I: What kind of things do you think the university here could learn from the
experience you've had at Santa Fe?
S: Well, what could they learn from it?
I: In other words, you feel the experience at Santa Fe has been a really good
I: And so obviously, certain things happen there that don't happen here, you know.
S: I don't know because the university has just as much and even more than Santa
Fe has. Maybe because the university is so large and Santa Fe is so small and
I guess in a compact you can move just so far, you have to run into each other,
whether you want to or not. And this could brinpon lead to the togetherness
that is there more so than, you have space here to go your own way without
tripping over anybody. I don't know if that's good or bad because the uni-
versity has the union. Blacks and whites go there if they want to. But just
like Santa Fe just has the small lounge, and everybody sits around and plays
cards and stuff like this. I don't know what, how the university could come
down off its impersonal that they have because they have classrooms but still,
it's not like it is at Santa Fe. I really don't know what could be done.
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I: Do you think white students act differently here than they did at Santa Fe?
S: No. I, let's see, no, not different. Like I said, at Santa Fe, it's small
and so we're in class and it's just like this is something you have to do at
Santa Fe where as here, you don't. It's that type of thing. So I wouldn't
call it different. I don't knw.
I: Do professors act differently toward you here than they do at Santa Fe?
S: Well, this one professor that teaches black history...
S: Yes. No, like I say, it's a round table discussion, and I have to be
recognized, but I don't in other classes because there's such a large
number of us, and he doesn't recognize anybody.
I: But what you're saying has nothing to do with being black. It's just that
it's a very large class.
S: That's right. And at Santa Fe, there's no such thing as five hundred students
in the class. And everyone has to be recognized in this small ( )
small classroom that they have, and I don't know, that's just ( ) as a
senior. But how could we...? Ok, the university needs more black students,
more... Like onathe question you asked that we need more black faculty members,
and they need black studies and more, well if they get the more black students,
they'll get altered relations and things like that for black students to par-
ticipate in other than the BSU.
I: What kind of organizations would you like to see develop here?
S: Fraternities, sororities.
I: You think most black students would be active in them?
S: Yeah, I'm dying to be in a sorority.
I: Oh really?
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S: Why? Because I want to make it over.
S: I want to make it over.
I: What does that mean?
S: Well, this is the term they're using in most colleges and universities.
That your own line and you make it over.
I: To what?
S: You become a sorority or a frat in the organization. You go through all of
these changes. They take you through all of these changes. You first have
to have the average, and you have to have the potential and the desire and
everything to even be considered and then after you are considered, you have
to go through all of these changes to meet their needs.
I: Like what? What kind of changes?
S: Well, from what I've heard, they have a book of laws and a constitution and
all this that you have to learn that. You have to look up to your sisters
and brothers. You have to do what they say. You have to be a certain place
at a certain time in so many minutes. You have to go out in your community
and do whatever they want you to do for the black people or for the little
kids. You really have to do a lot. You will have to take beatings from
them. You have, you just have to stand up to anything that they want you to
do or anything they want you to do, you have to be able to do it, and you get
so many points and get so many strikes, and you have this basic attire that
I: Like what?
S: Well, the sisters wear... They have something like, they have colors for one
things, and they have, it's not, I wouldn't call it a uniform, but an outfit
that everyone wears, you know.
I: All the time?
S: Whenever they're performing or anything like at the games, all the sisters
wear the same thing, dress in the same attire. And the frats dress in the
same attire. Well, the night before you go on trial, the night before the
big verdict and everything, you put out your best. You recite anything
they want you to recite. You sing anything they want you to sing. You've
gone through all this before now, you know, but you just really know it
tonight. And then, if you're picked, you make it over. It's like the
older sisters that have made it on one line and then the younger babies on
another line, and if you cross the line, you've made it over. If you don't,
they'll let you know.
I: Why do you want to do that?
S: Why? It's a challenge. I mean, it's just so much. I mean, it's hell, going
through with it. I mean, they really put you through a lot but after you get
over, you have someone, like when you finish school and each student...
I: Excuse me. (Knock) I'm very interested in that.
S: Ok. What else? I was saying, just like when, you have to be a sophomore to
even to want to be a sister in a sorority and you have to by your junior year,
no, by the end of your sophomore year, you make it over, and then you become
a big sister. And after you graduate and everything and everyone goes where
they're going, you can always, every year you come together. Just like, if
you want to leave town, you have someone to go to, you can call up even if
you're going to a new town, if your sister's there, you can call them up.
I: Yeah, that's a nice feeling to have, to belong to...
S: Yeah, and this is the attitude they get across, to become friends and stay
friends the rest of your life. This is what it means in the black schools,
and this is one reason why I want to, and this is the only reason I regret
coming here, because I won't be able to do it. I wouldn't do it here, and
I could do it after I finish here and become a graduate senior sister in a
I: Are you thinking of going to graduate school?
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I: Would you think about it, if you could, joining a sorority on this campus?
S: Well, it would be after. Yeah, maybe, but not in undergraduate. Graduate,
maybe. Really, I had put it out of my mind completely because of me coming
here and everything but this is one thing I was looking forward to in at-
tending Florida Memorial because they do have it there.
I: This information that you have about the sororities, where have you gotten it?
S: From big sisters.
S: Like, I have a best friend who was a Delta, and she attendedkCC, and also...
I: ( ) college?
S: Yeah, and also ( ). Just most of the black schools I know, there
is someone that I have talked to about it. It's different in each school,
but the idea of it is just the same, you know. It stands out most.
I: Do you most, or a majority of black students on this campus would be interested
in something like this?
S: Oh yeah, I'm sure of that.
I: Do you know of any movement to get organizations like that here?
S: Well, yeah, I guess if, I doubt if, like I said, since I came hre, I put it
out of my mind and I guess most of the students felt the same way since they
came here but now they are awakening to everything, they probably will come on.
I: What's to prevent a black sorority or a black fraternity from coming here?
S: Lack of funds. That's probably all, I think.
I: Would they be open to white people?
S: I don't think so. I don't know. It all depends. I don't know. I can't say.
Maybe. Maybe not and maybe. I doubt if a white student would want to. I
doubt if we would say no.
I: Would you want it to be mixed?
S: I would if the white student showed a real potential, desire. But I wouldn't
if she didn't, but I doubt if she would take the risk if she really didn't want to.
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I: What do you mean the risk?
S: Well, I doubt that she would take the risk of coming into a black organization,
all black, you know, and it would be all black women by herself or with someone
I: Would you be in favor of getting rid of black sororities and white sororities
and just have sororities?
I: Why not?
S:q4iEK Because I feel so strong, you know, I've come up with this organization
of blacks, you know, and the laws and everything that's being portrayed in
them. I don't know anything about how the white sororities function, and I
guess it's the same. I'm sure it is, but I wouldn't want it to deteriorate.
Maybe, keep the black sororities, keep the white sororities and add the black
white with a third party. (?)
I: So, you're actually in favor of having separate fraternities for black people
and separate fraternities for white people.
I: Wouldoou be in favor of having anything else like that separated?
S: Well, like on the questionnaire, I wasn't in favor of having a black state
in the US because there's not enough black people, you know, all over for
that. I don't think it would do us any good to be really separate. Something
that's not, like this organization, it means a lot to us, but really, it means
a lot everywhere, but it really doesn't amount to that much toward society or
anything. It amounts but, how can I put it? It's avlot, but then again, it's
not that much. And then a black state would be that much and then, you know,
to ( ), it wouldn't amount to too much because I just thought that
it would work.
I: Do you date a lot?
S: Yeah, steady.
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I: Oh, you go with one guy?
I: Yeah, that's a little different but you could probably tell me what happens
to other people besides yourself. Do most people on this campus feel similarly
to the way you feel in the sense that they go to Santa Fe and socialize a lot?
I: Do you know any black girls that date off-campus, for the most part? Or do
they date either students on campus and students at Sata Fe?
S: Any black girls that are students here?
S: No, I think it's all in ( ), for the most part. There are some, a
few but I have heard of a black student is dating a black guy that's off cam-
pus and it's not too well liked among the black sisters here. They feel
that, I don't know why, I don't have the bottom of it, they feel all the black
sisters here should date the black ( ). It's because, well, they're
trying to come completely together, and they feel that this is one way, and
if she spends a lot of time outside the university which she probably wouldn't
participate in the movements or anything that they're trying to do, well, this
would tear down the organization and this would...
I: What about black guys?
S: Yeah. They date the black girls Pre on campus.
I: Is there any black-white dating?
S: I think so. But I can't really put my hand on it, but I'm sure. I have seen
it, but I don't know no one that we were discussing.
I: Is there any resentment on anybody's part about that?
S: Maybe a few, but I think it's overall accepted. I've heard, maybe one or two,
frowns or something. Overall, it's accepted.
I: Well, who are the people who are frowning on it?
S: What you mean? They're our leaders.
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I: Pardon me.
S: They're our leaders.
I: The leaders are the ones that frown on it?
S: Not all of them, but I think...
I: What do they say?
S: Well, theAeel that the black guys who are dating the white girls, they call
it strawberry jamming.
I: Instead of blackberry jamming?
S: Right. And they don't feel it should be like this. And those that are ex-
pressing themselves openly feel really strong about it, and it really tears
them up to see it, and they feel that they are leaders, and they supposed to
have only heart and soul and mind in the black struggle, and then they give
all their love to the other side which is, they consider them Oreo cookie,
they consider them on top one time, and on the bottom(epet time. They're
not all one way. They're divided. Like, they feel this white girl will be
strong enough to persuade him differently from his people, and you know, this
is the attitude. I can see it, but then again, I care less.
I: Who dates more? Black guys dating white girls...?
I: You knew the question before I...
I: Why is that?
S: Because it goes back a long way. The black girls, they'll think twice, maybe
three or four times about dating a white guy, I believe, because, Ok, I'll
take me. I don't think I'll be able to trust a white guy wherein a black guy,
being a man and he feels that he can do anything he wants to do. Wherein, as
you know, the facts of the woman's role, she can only do so much.
I: You'll have to explain that to me.
S: OK. What I was saying was a woman feels she can do so much. She can't do
what a man does, and she limits herself, sometimes it hurts her but she does.
I: What do you mean, limit?
S: Well, maybe she wants three or four guys to date at a time wherein she cares
so much about one guy but then sheAtigHKxx that she should ( ) away from
him and get used to other men and he wouldn't stand for it and therefore she
let him go on. Wherein he is dating a lot of women, and through the years,
this has been accepted. Woman stay in her place. And that's why a man feels
so strong and anything he wants to do, he feels he can do it, and this is why
a black man will date a white girl. Not because he, well, he may do it for
to see if he can really do it, to see if he can come through with it, and
then he may be sincere about it. You know, he has so many reasons for doing
it wherein a woman, she would probably have only one reason which would be
the most important, she would love him, and, because she can't see, she
wouldn't really get any support from her peer group in dating a white guy
with all these beautiful black men that she could be dating, you know, and
she would have all this ( ). It's
just, you know, women have a harder time than men. They do.
I: If you weren't going with this one fellow, would you date a white guy?
S: I doubt it.
S: Well, the fear. That would be the only reason.
I: Fear of what?
S: Well, I have too much, let's see, I don't know. I would really, really have
to know him well. I would really have to get to know him well. It would be
a lot that he would have to do and I would have to do when you wouldn't or-
dinarily do ( ) to date him. I would date him. I don't think I
would go any farther than that. But I doubt if I would let myself love him
even if I felt any love for him, I would fight it. I'm talking on the surface
because I haven't had an experience in that sense. You know, you're not really
sure of what you mkgkx might do.
- 20 -
I: I've heard that one of the explanations that black guys get by dating white
girls is the idea, well, they don't really dig them that much, it's just sort
of getting even.
S: Yeah, that's one of the reasons.
I: You've heard that?
S: Uh, hum.
I: Do you believe that?
S: I'm sure of that.
I: Do you believe that that's a real reason? Or is that a cover-up?
S: That's the beginning reason. Now, the white chick overwhelms him, and he
can't control himself; otherwise, he would prove his point and let go.
I: What do you mean, the white girl overwhelms him?
S: I mean, she gets the best of him, not the best of him, but she shows herself
enough for him to love her, to really dig her, and this is where he gets
trapped. You know, this is what's really most of the black men who want,
even think about doing it, you know, this is why they come down on themselves.
Because they know this is like I say, she would, they feel that she would
get so involved with them, find out everything about him, you know, and this
would tear down the black struggle.
I: Is there something else you want to talk about?
S: I don't know.