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Ernest Wards--interviewed


A'. /197/
I: Where are you from Ernest?

E: Jacksonville.

I: And what year are you 1iw?

E: I'm a senior, should graduate in August.

I: Did you come here directly from high school?

E: No, I went to the Jacksonville, Florida junior college, Right . .

in Jacksonville and transferred here.

I: After two years?

E: Right.

I: So you've been here . this is your second year here.

E: Yeah.

I: What school did you go to in Jacksonville?

E: New -Stanton' High--High School.

I: When you graduated from New Stanton, did you think of going anywhere

else besides FJC?

E: Well, I'd thought about about it, but due to my financial situation

I know I wouldn't 've been able to go anywhere. I thought about a

couple of other schools.

I: Where had you considered?

E: A&M and Bethume Cookman.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: But I didn't have any, you know, financial . you know, to get in

there. Then there's . Edward Waters college is a four-year school

that's in Jacksonville. That's probably where I would have wind up

going if I hadn't gone to junior college. It started the year I grad-

uated.

I: Florida Junior College?





-2- /a1 24


E: Yeah.

I: What about after graduating from there, did you consider going

anywhere else?

E: No, this was the only place I applied for.

I: Uh. huh.

E: That's uh, my professors . quite a few of them ara graduates

from here and they're, you know . .

I: That FJC?

E: Yeah.

I: UH. Huh.

E: And they told me about Florida, so I applied for Florida and didn't

apply for anyplace else.

I: When--Until you graduated from New Stanton actually you'd been to

all-black schools then, Right?

E: Yeah.

I: How was it for the first time going to a predominantly white school?

E: Well, how do you mean: social-wise? academically?

I: Well, okay. Both.

E: Umm.

I: This is FJC?

E: Yeah. First off I was a . before I went there I figured it was

gonna be pretty hard, you know, that was gonna be my first time in

a situation--well, an integrated school situation.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: So I had planned to uh, really get down with it and study a lot hard-

er because most of the white schools, you know, higher level and the

black school y normabl-]--like it was. And so, I adjusted pretty

well to it because I had a B average after the first semester there,








and after I saw that it wasn't that hard, that it wasn't that much

to it, I slacked up and my average went down, bJ

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: So I ended up with a two-point four average, so academically, you

know, it didn't . It wasn't that difficult. But-so-anyw y, it

was pretty much what I expected because there were oh, a large

amount of black students there but it was still, you know, predomi-

nantly white and all the faculty is white, so. .

I: There are no black teachers there at all?

E: Uh, there may be now . .

I: Hm. HMm.
me( AIO&1 6ti#
E: B*t probably weu 51-,^' re there weren't any there when I was go-

ing, when it first started. So, socially, I guess I hung out with

my friends. . I knwe quite a few people there, and I didn't min-

gle with whites much because-like you go in the cafeteria and stuff,

it's the same situation where you see blacks off to themselves and

segregated within an integrated . .

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: Institution. So--

I: Well, what about since you've come here, how's it been?

E: Accademically, I--I you know, found myself in somewhat of a problem,
4 o rvin % o' H v
but not that much, I've still been able to main4tai, you know,san

average without really putting forth any greater effort than I did

before. Socially, I found that interacting with--what? It's a

lot different because An Junior llege I didn't, I didn't have to

live with whites there see? I could go to school over there and I

would go back home.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: But now, see--since you're living, I'm living in a white system.





-4- 2/I


It's a lot different and I found myself in quite a few situations

that I hadn't been in before sort of, you know, like . .

I: What kind of situations are you talking about?

E: Well, like the dorm that I lived in when I first got here--Htie Hall,

I was the only blhck person in the whole dorm. And when I go to eat

dinner or something like that, it's like you know being in a zoo, be-

cause people are watching you all the time. And you find very few

people who come up and let you know that they don't approve of your

being there, that they are racist. most of them are--you know they'll

smile at you on the surface and then they won't have any type of con-

frontation with you, and a few try to avoid you altogether. Bit of all

the people I lived there with, they were pretty nice but you could

tell--I don't think they were presenting their true,yo.u know, selves

.. .the way they felt, because they felt inhibited sometimes--when

they were talking or something when I came by the room or something

like that . and they would sort of changethe tone of the conver-

sation if I would--if I stopped to talk with them or something.

I: Did you have a white roomm-te?

E: Yeah.

I: How'd you get along with him?

E: Well, my first roommate, he was a--shocked, 'cause see I got there

first and I think hw was pretty shocked when he first came in . .

so I was just sitting on the bed when he came in and he said uh,

'well I guess you're my roommate, huh?' . So I didn't say much

to him, I say 'yeah, I guess so.' Then he sat for about forty-five

minutes just looking' out the window and didn't say a word and so

I don't whether he went back to check and see if he could move or

not. I know he stayed there for about a week and a half and then

one day when I got back here, he had moved out completely and left





-5-


a little note and said uh,'he's sorry he had to move so swiftly and

all that you know, but at any rate he was gone. I was left without

a roommate for a pretty long while, then another guy came in--a

jewish guy and he stayed there about two or three quarters and we

got along pretty well; and then he moved to a fraternity house or

something, Z&U bhtMt/. T-hen another fellow came--he was from West

Palm Beach--and I guess. ... We got along pretty good; he was the

. when you see some, you know, what you call regular red-neck

type community.but he had . seems like he was from the lower-

class because he had worked with blacks--where ever he worked at,

you know--well, it was sort of a, well I don't know, it's hard to

explain but well we did get along 'cause we joked a lot. We got

along okay. But mostly all of the white roommates that I've had

moved out--moved for one reason or another.

I: Are you still living in the dorm?

E: No, I moved last quarter. I'm living off-campus now, I have a

black roommate now.

I: Who is your roommate?

E: James Lee. We live in the C-'-3,, This is the first time I've had

a black roommate since I've been here.

I: How are you doing' in school?--A/cademically?

E: Due to--I guess you might call them extra-curricular activities, or

whatever, I'm managing just to stay above--just to keep a C average.

When I first came here, my--I got on probation . Then the second

quarter I made a fee- and pulled it up. Then I've been sort of

on and off probation every since then, but I don't think it's be-

cause I can't adjust to it, it's just that I have a lot of other

things to do.

I: Hm. Hmm. What's your field?

E: Math.





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L: What kind of extra-curriculars are you in?

E: Well, I'm in the BSt-, and right now I'm working on a program called

"Out Reach"--"Operation Out-Reach" and it takes up quite a bit of

my time. And before then I was like going to a lot of meetings

and stuff like this with the BSU, different things that wtrying

to put on . make come off, and that was taking up quite a bit

of time.

I: What kind of program are you working on for BSU?

E: Well, right now I'm not working on anything for the BSU, right now

all my time is involved in the "OutPeach" group.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: Which is a . It's run by blacks here, where we have students on

the work-study program and were trying to set up centers in the black

community and disadvantage areas.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: And in seven programs we're trying to implement a tutoring program,

La qul / '/ quite a few other things that we think

could improve the situations.

I: How is the social life on this campus?

E: Uh, the social life for me . it's not that bad 'cause, I have a

tendency c--- I can get along with most people and I can ad-

just to most situations. And the black students here, you know, it's

a small population of blacks so we're sorta like everybody knows

everybody, and we throw our own parties and we get along pretty good.

. Like now, but when I first got here, there wasn't that much

to do, socially--it was pretty bad.

I: What kind of things do students do now that you weren't abld to do

before?

E: Well, I go to quite a few partieslon the weekends-nawanan-the-week-





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sads that I didn't go to before . and then the meeting--the BSU

meetings provided a way, you know, socializing with blacks . .

there wasn't much before.

I: Is this the first year they've had BSU?

E: Yeah, the BSU just started. . I believe it was last summer. The

last year they had the uh, Adro-American student Union.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: But it had already started before I got here, and there was some in-

ternal disorders, or that's what you might call 'em . quite a

few people stopped coming, so there were'nt that many kids going

when I--when I first came.

I: Are most kids active in the BSU?

E: Uh, no . I don't think so, not most of the Black kids on campus.

I think quite a few of them are from out of--from Gainesville or

kind of outlining Gainesville . they don't live on campus. And

I don't think they'-re too much aware of the situation, what it is--

maybe apathetic about it, I don't know, but we're not getting a lot

of participation from quite a few people.

I: What about social activities . Are there many things for blacks

to do?

E: Yeah, among themselves, like uh, they go . we go to the Union or

maybe after meetings and weekends and things like this to bowl, shoot

pool . whatever. Mostly there's somebody always giving a party

or something on the weekend.

I: So for the most part, there is pretty much to do?

E: Yeah.

I: What about dating?

E: As far as dating goes, I think the situation here is--well, yeah fHC.rd o

okay . the raticn--yeah, more black guys here than girls . .





-8 FB 2

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: And so quite a few guys find it a big drag, you know, 'cause they don't

know . uh, if they just got here, a lot of black guys who've been

here quite a while they've already, you know, got things going for them.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: But the guy that just comes here, he finds it a pretty rough situation

cause it's nobody to go out with or anything. Which is as far as I(m

concerned . well I--uh, I don't find that much of a problem.

I: Do you have a car?

E: No.

I: Do people date people in the community?

E: Yeah, I think quite a few of the freshman here do, they mingle with the

students that are at Santa Fe High School too.

I: Hm. Hmm.
J_
E: 'Cause there are quite a few slacks that go there.

I: Santa Fe Junior College?

E: Yeah, hm, hmm. Junior College.

I: What about--Do girls also date guys off-campus?

E: Ah, yeah. But it's not as many girls . .

I: You mean more guys .

I-E:. . date girls off-campus than . .

E: Girls that guys.
Ala-~aw/
I: Thikn the girls on campus date aye black guys on campus.

E: Right.

I: Black guys date white girls?

E: A few.

I: Very many do you think?

E: No, I guess you can count 'em on one hand the ones who date white girls.

I: Do black girls resent that?





-9- 117g2

E: I think the majority of them do.

I: Why is that?

E: I don't know really . I guess becauseof the guys who do date white

girls they would . you would put them in a category that you would

call a militant sort. And the girls look down on the guys or they--uh,

they don't really go behind the guys . they're so much for the peo-

ple you know, and they're preaching and everything about being for

Backs and then they're going out with white girls, see uh, you know

that doesn't sorta go hand in hand . .

I: Do they say anything to 'em? Does anybody?

E; To the guys who date the um, girls . .?

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: Well, I don't know whether it's openly or not but you know, there has

been things said about it. . a few comments brought up but I don't

know.

I: Do black girls date white guys?

E: I haven't seen . maybe I know maybe one or two occasions, but not

on a whole.

I: Why do think there's that difference?
0-----
E: I don't know, it's hard to say. Well I had thought about it but I guess

the close situations . The BSU now is more political and more blacks

on campus are trying to become political, and I guess a lot of people

look at it as what would uh--what would the majority of the people say

on campus if they saw you going out with a white guyor a white girl,

since the situation is--you know so tense, you know, people might feel

that they're hindering whatever we're trying to do.

I: Yeah, I heard, well a couple things I heard--first of all I heard that

black guys sort of threaten black girls about like 'you better not be

going out with white guys. You ever heard anything like that?

E: No, I never heard that.
2





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I: And another thing I heard, I wonder if you've heard that a lot of black

girls resented, you know, black guys that date white girls . and the

black guys say 'well we don't really dig those girls, we're just, youlow,

doing it to take advantage of them or something like that.

E: Yeah well, some of the guys they . I guess for maybe most of them

that may be the reason cause I remember one incident where a guy said uh,

--a white guy told him that he couldn't take his girlfriend away from the

S. .you know he'd laugh at him when he told him (the black guy told him)

that he could take his girlfriend away from him. So he's--so he say he

did take his girlfriend but he doesn't go with her or anything. He just

did it to show that he could do it and now he messes around with white

girls a lot, more so than black girls now, and the reason he gives is

because he just wants to do it just to show people that he could do it

--show the white guys he could do it, you know.

I: Who is he trying to show, the black people or the white people?

E: He's trying to show the white people it seems, but that's the reason he

gives.

I: Hm. What about you know, being wath black students on this campus,

broken down to about three categories, how do you feel most students

act towards you?

E: Most students--you mean, uh white students?

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: When you say act toward me . you mean

I: I want you to say., you know, you sort of said people on the

surface act friendly but you think that you can tell that they're really

not, what do you mean by that?

E: Like you can sor of look at a person and tell whether he's being hon-

est with you or you know, or whether he's just socializing with you--

well, like if you're talking to somebody (some white person) when no

one's around or where he's in a situation where he doesn't know any-





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body, you know, he uh--he can talk to you on pretty friendly basis>

but he tends not to hang around you, you know, so much because I guess

he doesn't want to be identified with you or something like that. I

don't know, I think that's basically how most whites are because like

in the dorm I was S g in the main reason I stayed there after so

long was because of the intramural program they had and I got a chance

to participate in different sports and we won a few pleeks and things

well, all the guys on the team got a plack and all this, and all the

guys then they were .real friendly and everything but I was uh-- as

I was coming through the dorm one day and I . some guys had their

doors open and they were in there talking and I heard my name mentioned

you know, so I just stopped and I didn't listen long and I just went

on by the room and then as soon as I passed the room, they stopped

talking. And then one guy stuck his head out the door and then he

start joking and jivin' with me, asking me if I was gonna come you know,

outside and play ball today or whatever. And quite a few of them were

like that, they--they'll laugh at you in front of your face you know,

but they won't . they'll talk about you behind your back. They

aren't really sincere.

I: Hm. Hmm. Well you don't really know that they were saying anything

bad though, do you?

E: No I don't but what lead me to believe that was because they uh, they

broke the end of the conversation and shut as soon as I pass by. So,

I guess that leaves a concl--not trust, you know--whites on a whole.

Be real skeptical.

I: Have any incidents happened to you, I mean specific kinds of things,

more or less such things that are of an overall general kind of feeling

that you have you know, students feel towards you . Can you remem-

ber any incidents that specifically would say that that kind of thing

you know, exists.





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E: Well, just the one that I just mentioned.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: WEll, not to me personally, I can't remember any other incidents such

as that,

I: Do you know of any that happened to your friends or people you know?

E: Yeah, quite a few more open . well yeah, more open incidents than

that. My girlfriend has them. She's had quite a bit of trouble with

all the roommates that she's had and . .

I: Who's your girlfriend?
b);ld1
E: Her name's Annette (Widtn). She's not here this quarter.

I: Oh.

E: She's interning. And well, she had this girl as her roommate in.Broward

when she was living there and this well-- the first time she was living
SO
with her she . I guess the girl requested to move some place '-eans

she called her parents or something, and well her parents came down the

next day to see if she could--if they could get her out, get her out of

the room but they could'nt get her out, she had to stay there for about

a week or so. And I can think of one other time the same girl was uh,

was moving in a room and Annette was in the room, and she had to move

out . It was the end of this past quarter and when shecame to the

room and saw Annette was still there, well she waited outside you know,

she wouldn't go in the room 'till Annette had moved her things out.

I: Had they actually had any problems or just. .

E: You know this was like first sight thing.. time the girl came in there

and taw that she was black she automatically thought that she couldn't

line with her so whe wanted to change her room. And another guy--well

when I was living there, a friend of mine we had--I had to live in that

dorm for about a year, I guess and I knew the guy and all, and I'd talk'-

ed with hIim a few times. And when the next quarter was about to come
ed wth Ima fw%_11s





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about he requested to move in you know, the room that I was gonna g1t

because my other roommate had goten moved out, and the only reason he

came back for that quarter the RA over there mentioned to me that his

parents had came down and told him that he couldn't move in with me.

I didn't know anything about it but the guy came and told me that he

had you know, put in to move in with me but his parents said no he

couldn't do it. And so, I don't know, I guess it's just uh, parents

have a lot to do with whether a student moves in . or at least so

the student said.

I: HM. Hmm.

E: But when a person tells me that I don't--that his parents doesn't want

him to, to have a black roommate I don't know, I'm totatly skeptical

about believing something like that too he parents have that much

control over the students! . And I don't know, like he doesn't

have to tell his parents he has a black roommate or you know, it seems

like his parents don't have that much control over him.

I: Hm. Hmm. What about professors? How've you gotten along4ith your in-

structors?

E: I got along pretty well with most of my -- all my instructors so far.

I: You never thought that being black 4wet oau yea rmae any difference?

E: No, I can't remember recalling any incident.

I: Hm. Hmm. What about the people in your classes?

E:.- Well, in most of my classes, I haven't really talked with you know, the

people in there unless somebody in there shows . well they have to

make the first step, a first move for me to sor of have some type of

interaction with them.

I: Hm. Hmm. '

E: And so basically I don't associate with people in most of my classes.
S
I: Have you had any contact with any administrators?





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E: Yeah. I work in Tigert so I know quite a few of them there.

I: Do you get along fairly well with them?

E: Yeah.

I: Do you know Roy Mitchell?

E: Yeah.

I: How do you get along with him?

E: Pretty good. We have a few differences of opinion about certain things

but I mean, I get along real well with him.

I: Well, what kind of things do you differ on?

E: Well he uh, he sort of has a tendency to want to, I don't know, preach

you might say, but he---well whenever he has something to say it always

turns out to be in a speech, sorta longwinded they say--he sort of drags

on what he wants to say. And he does that a few times in the meetings--

in the BSU meetings and quite a few of the kids there will resent it be-

cause he sort of, I guess he might treat 'em like you know, like they

aren't adults or something.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: And they resent it.

I: Who would you consider ISte main leaders, black leaders on this campus?

E: Let's see uh, like leaders as far as getting anything done, well politi-

cal .

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: Uh, the chariman of the BSU, Mitch Dasher. He does quite a bit along

that line; he directs quite a few of the of the people in the BSU, the

ministers included. I think that he's uh I guess if you want to say

a leader, the main leader. .of the blacks on the campus.

I: Who else?

E: David Horme was pretty much involved with it while he was going here

but he teaches at Santa Fe now. And I guess Sam Taylor contributes





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to leadership, moreso in the past than he has now because he has other

things, he's teaching now so . .

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: And Don Henderson who is a med-student. He . I guess he contributes

quite a bit before. We don't see much of him around here anymore either.

so . those just a few. A few other people who you know, aren't in

the limelight are nbt being seen that much, what we're doing are things

down under the surface.

I: Is Larry Jordan a leader?

E: Is he a leader? Hmm, yeah. I would say so. But he's not really liked

by quite a few of the black students here because of certain tactics

he uses.

I: Like what?

E: What are you--are you going to be using this for something?

I: Well this is all confidential. It's all confidential.

E: Well like tha way he, I don't know you might say he uses people for

his own advancement. I guess he would come under one of the categor-

ies I mentioned before about black militants who--who say one thing

you know, then do something else and say--well like he goes with a

white girl.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: And he sort of looks down upon his race.

I: Is there any other reason than for that though?

E: Yeah, like well in the meeting today he sort of . he has a knack

of getting done what he wants, what he wants done--putting his way

;over on things and anybody who opposes his views he's very quick to

get up and cut 'em down somehow or use something that's personal. We

have a big problem with personality conflicts in the BSU.

I: Hm. Hmm.





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E: And whenever he wants to get something over on somebody he gets up and

maybe say something about 'em personally or something. And most peo-

ple don't like him for that reason. .. So he's not as active as he
a5
used to be, p-eeee he used to be . .

I: Hmm. I heard that he was kicked out, is that true?

E: Sorta, yeah.

I: How was he kicke'out?

E: That was uh, we don't know really . We were told by the, a couple

of ministers in the BSU and the chairman; and by them doing that it

seems that they were doing the same thing that he had been doing. .

See, but by putting him out then they--the members really didn't do it.

They didn't say anything about it.

I: How? What did they say? They say, 'we threw 'em out?'

E: They say Larry Jordan was purged from the--from the BSU.because of cer-

tain things, they didn't go into any details or anything.

I: Didn't certain students resent that just on principal even they don't

like him, that's neither here . you know, somebody just decided

who can be in the organization and who can't.

E: Yeah. Well they did at that moment you know, they did resent them doing
/!
that. But mostly the people said that w)ll they just can't, you know,

throw somebody else out without the--the members deciding on it. .

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: And then, well we *ere told that he wasn't the only one who was put out

. Well, they say he wasn't actually put out, he was taken down from

whatever office he was--he was holding. Quite a few of the others were

too and some of the others who were taken off out of their office, they

were there and they said well . they didn't make any big fuss about

it so the other kids didn't pursue the matter any, you know.

I: Hm. Hmm. Are you in favor of black fraternities coming on this campus?





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E: Uh, I don't care too much for fraternities and I wouldn't . I mean

it would be okay with me if we had a black fraternity.

I: But you wouldn't join it.

E: But I wouldn't join it.

I: Why is that?

E: I don't know. I'm pretty much to myself most of the time and I . I

just don't relate with a fraternity . .

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: Well, I'm just an individual I guess . I'm waiting for fraternities

to die down. We tend to,-we identify with a certain group of people

and I tend to be to myself most of the time.

I: What about, do you think there's a need for more black students here?

E: ) 3y' I think it would help the situation here as far as

--Black students are concerned.

I: Why is that?

E: Well if you ha4more black students here I think the situation as far as

white students being uh--racist in a subtle sort of way could improve be-

cause then they would have more black students here to, say, interact

with. You know, and maybe get to know blacks better and theg probably

on a whole the situation the-cituatin for blacks would be better.

I: Why don't you think more black students come here

E: Why don't I think more come here? I don't know, I think quite a few AO0

know how the situation is here, you know, racially. I think that's

a big factor in why they don't come.

I: Well--well what do you mean? What type things do they hear?

E: Well they hear, I guess the only thing that they really need to hear is

the percentage of blacks to whites and that'S enough to make them not

want to come.

I: Yeah, but logically, and being a math major I mean you know if the rea-

son they don't come is because not too many are here and then the next





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year say well, they're not coming because they're not too many here.

E: Say that again.

I: Well, don't you say in other words, if the reason they don't come is

because there aren't many blacks here . .

E: Yeah.

I: There'te never gonna be any blacks here if that's the reason they're

not coming.

E: Yeah, well I guess what we'll have to do is explain to them that it

would be better for the blacks who are here if you know, more blacks

would come here so that's what we're impressing on the individuals'

belief whether he wants to comejust to help the situation or not.

I: Would you encourage black students to come here?

E: Yeah, I would and I've had--I've had quite a bit to do with quite a

few who are here.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: You know . .

I: You mean, do you encourage them to come?

E: Yeah.

I: But yet you say this is a racist place.

E: Hm. Hmm.

I: Why do you encourage them to come anyway?

B: I encourage them to come for the sake of the blacks who are already

here.

I: Hm. Hmm.

;: Mainly social I guess you would say, also-well blacks have--well our

way of socializing is quite different from the way whites socialize.

I: Like what?

E: Well lik) my idea of a party, I think is different from a white person

or most white people who I've associated with than their idea of a party.


I




- 19 -


Like when we go to a party, we play music and we dance and everybody-

they you know, talk a lot and jive around and drink but you have more

dancing than drinking you know, more' so---jokin' and dancin' and this

sort of thing than drinking, and uh, when I--most of the parties I went

to that are put on by the whites are more . you know mostly whites

were there . ah, they don't--they play music (there, that's another

difference, the music they play quite different). . uh, but they

don't dance that much .

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: They just you know, sit around and socialize and drink mostly . You

know, blacks just party different.

I: You know, from what you said it doesn't sound that much different, ex-

cept that you're not describing the appeal is different. The only thing

you've said is that you dance more. Is there anything else that makes

it different?

I: I don't know. I imagine so but I hadn't thought about it. I can't put

my finger on. .

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: A single thing, you know, that's really on the surface. I guess it's

being with people uh, who you know and whoxyou can relate to something

with. It's uh--I don't know,

.; WHat about black professors, do you think there ought to be more?

E: Yeah. I think t ought to be a pretty big factor-to---in helping the

situation as far as white students, helping then to face up to certain

facts--certain facts about black people. They have--like they had a

black instructor or something in some of their classes, then maybe they

could learn more about blacks that way and change some of their attitudes,

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: And then the black professors could have a'say so' in the faculty meet-

ings or whatever . or whatever power the faculty has over the insti-




- 20 -


stitution. I think that would help.

I: If you were a math major do you think it would've mattered any if you

had black professors rather than white professors?

E: Well it--rAmi -have-some I don't think so because just . there's

no . well, math is just one thing, you know, there's nothing that

you can have any views on--/ath is/,ath.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: If somebody teaches math, if he's a good instructor, you know--you could /ItrJ

something but if not, there aren't any controversial views in math courses.

I: So in your field, you don't think that it's that important, but in other

fields it might be more important.

E: Right.

I: Can you think of any other changes that you'd like to see here?

E: Uh--I don't know. Maybe if we had more um, . in the dorm situation-

in housing, if you had more . It'd be nice to see some black RA's or

rather than . .

I: Hm. Hmm. Do you think that they ought . I've heard that quite a few

times that you know, a guy moves in and his white roommate comes and the

white roommate moves out. Do you think that they ought let them move

out?

E: No, I don't think so. I think they should be required to stay there,

and if they do move out they should put the person somewhere on the floor

maybe across the hall from 'em--the black guy or something.

I: Hm. Hmm.

E: And . .

I: That first roommate you had, after he moved out did you see him anymore?

E: Yeah, I saw him quite a bit, I ..

I: Did you get along then?
-r
E: Yeah, we got along better I think. He moved over in ,towers .

I: Hm. Hmm.




- 21 -


E: And we were sort of along the same--in the same field, you know, and we

took computer programming courses together. And we studied together

after then, and I even went over to his room . .

I: So you were friends with him but he wouldn't stay your roommate?

E: Yeah.

I: How do you explain that?

E: Uh, I don't know, I guess it's just maybe the people he hangs around

with or, maybe the type of life he had at home was such that he wouldn't

. his background probably--he wouldn't socialize with blacks.

I: Do you think .

E: I mean, wouldn't live with a black person.

I: But he's changed some, do you think maybe?

E: Maybe somewhat so.

I: Hm. Hmm. What'd:you think when you got the questionnaire
E: The questionnaire--you mean what'd I think when I got it . .?

I: Yeah.

E: Or after I filled it out?

I: Well both. First though, have you gotten any other ones?

E: Yeah, sort of along that line.

I: im. Hmm. Did you fill them out?

E: Yeah. I've filled out quite a few questionnaires similar to that.

I: What did you think about this one?

E: I thought it dealt with the black/white problem a lot more, maybe more

into it.

I: Hm Hmm.

E: And a few other things maybe these other questionnaires didn't ask about.

I: Do you know other people who've gotten it?

E: The same questionnaire?

I: Hm. Hram.




- 22 -


E: Yeah.

I: Did they fill it out?

E: Most of them yeah, they filled it out. I don't know howamany of 'em

sent 'em back yet.

I: You mean they'd fill them out an 'd not send them back.

E: Well they--we've talked about them, but they've gotten . .

I: Uh, huh.

E: They've be"n filling them out.

I: Do you know anybody offhand?

E: Who hasn't . .

I: Who hasn't sent it back.

E: A friend of mine, Gary Mc Clain has one. I don't think he's sent it

back yet. We just talked about it today because I told him I was com-

ing over.

I: Hm., Hmm.

E: And so, I think he said he's gonna send his today.

I: Yeah, see it's very very important that I get as many students as I can

to fill that out. Because unless they do,(being in BSU, I'd appreciate

it if you would mention it to some people)--unless we get more people

to fill it out, you know,some people are going to be apt to say 'well

that's just a handful of people, you don't really know that most black

students fin-- that way you just talked to a few.'

E: Yeah.

I: You see the problem. So unless I get a lot more people to send it in

it's gonna be sort of you know, for no good, because they can say . .

E: Hm. Hmm.

I: Well that's just a few people's opinion, rather we ought to say, well

-falready know ninety percent of the black students feel this way about

that and there must be something wrong.'

E: you sent them to all black students here?





- 23 -


I: Yeah, right. And so I would appreciate if you could remember, it'd

really help a lot. Just--I know a lot of people are real, you know,

well intentioned . They forget. You know they start to fill it

out and put it down and leave it. All of them you know are self-ad4

dressed nL-stamped you just fill it out and send it back.

E: Yeah.

I: I--I couldn't tell you how much I appreciate it that if you would, and

I appreciate you coming by and taking the time to fill it out.

E: ------ -"has been jumping on me and quite a few others . .

I: I know, she's pretty good at that.

E: So, she was after me about sending mine back.

I: Pardon me.

E: She was after me about sending mine back.

I: Uh, huh.

E: I hadn't really gotten around to doing mine you know, 'till she kept

bothering me about it and I finally sent it back.

I: Right. Well I appreciate you coming by.

E: Okay.

I: And do try to do that, okay?

E: Okay, I will.

I: Okay, thank you a lot.

E: Okay.