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FP 32
Gwen Cherry
24 Pages Restricted
May 21, 1974
Pp. 1-5: Gwen Cherry's political background includes some previous campaign experience and
she was a US Coast Guard Attorney for the 7th District of the Coast Guard. Since 1970, Gwen
has been a state representative for Dade County. As a black woman, Gwen was a "curiosity" at
first. She focuses on issues such as: rape, capital punishment, child care, equal rights, and the
elderly. Gwen was born and raised in Florida and her father was a doctor.
Pp. 5-10: Gwen Cherry's first political act was the introduction of her child care bill, which has
yet to pass. She discusses Reuben Askew and believes that he can do more for women and blacks
than he has, especially on the passage of the ERA. Gwen thinks Florida is in desperate need of
Affirmative Action. She speaks about the need for blacks to run for public office. At the time of
this interview, 50 blacks were holding office. They were not organized. Gwen says that the
NAACP, Voters Organization and Urban League support the general public, but there are no
organizations specifically for black politicians. Gwen discusses the Cuban population in Miami,
their conservatism and future power in the county.
Pp. 10-15: Gwen believes that Florida blacks are better off than in other southern states, but
contrary to common opinion, she does not think that Florida is more northern than southern, nor
is it liberal. As an example, Gwen points to the racial issues of busing and welfare and says that
Floridians have moved extremely conservatively on these issues, which is indicative of a southern
state. Yet, Gwen says that she'd rather deal with southern politicians (who she believes are more
straightforward) than northerners (who she says are vicious). Askew is discussed as popular
among blacks because of his-stance on busing.
Pp. 15-20: Gwen discusses women's political groups like the Women's National Political Caucus
and NOW. She discusses the attempts to pass the ERA. Gwen criticizes Paula Hawkins for not
putting her full political weight behind this legislation. Gwen talks about her campaign style and
to whom she tries to appeal. She discusses how women are crossing party lines and the typical
"housekeeping" positions that the government often relinquishes to women.
Pp. 20-24: Gwen discusses the next election and possible seats she may run for. She talks about
Alce Hastings, Askew's black advisors, Claude Anderson and Lester Maddox. She also broadens
the discussion to speak on women and blacks and their future in holding high positions
nationwide. Gwen briefly mentions the Haitian refugee crisis. Finally, Gwen returns to the
subject of northerners being more difficult to deal with than southerners.
FROM THE S.o. .P., 'dO7
SOUTHERN HISTORICAL COLLECTION, THE LIBRARY OF
THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL.
This is an interview with Gwen Cherry, a black female state
representative from Dade County, Florida. The interview was conducted
by Jack Bass and Walter De Vries in Tallahassee, Florida on May 21, 1974
and was transcribed by Joe Jaros.
Jack Bass: Basically, what is your political background?
Gwen Cherry: I had worked in many campaigns prior to being elected, but
I had never thought about running for office. At the time, I was the
United States Coast Guard Attorney for the seventh Coast Guard district
when I was asked to run. And I resigned that position in order to run,
which was a terrific cut in salary. I guess that it was higher in a way,
because it was on the federal level and the seventh Coast Guard district
encompasses about six or seven states, southern states.
J.B.: Who asked you to run?
Cherry: A combination of people, black people, women, lawyer's groups.
They felt that it was time for a change and they thought that perhaps
it was time for a black woman to go, to make the step of running for
office.
J.B.: That was what year?
Cherry: 1969, and I was seated in 1970.
Walter De Vries: Was that a special election?
Cherry: No, it was a regular one.
J.B.: So, this is your third time?
Cherry: No, second.
J.B.: Second.
Cherry: CompletinR the second.
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page 2
J.B.: Right, o.k.
W.D.V.: And is it what you would have expected?
Cherry: It's very frustrating. I guess that I am getting a little more
accustomed to it now, but having been a lawyer for awhile, you get even
more frustrated, because you can change a rule of law in a particular case,
and whether or not the legislature will act and change it in accordance
with the way it should be is left up to them. They may go all the way
up to the Supreme Court and change it, and that has to do with that
particular case. However, in the legislature, if you manage to be
successful, you get a whole body of laws changed at one time. So, you
do make more of an impact, although I use both of them. I still fild-
suits where I think you need action, where the legislature will not move.
Using both of them sometimes, you can get results. For instance, when I
first came in, there was a group of about 20,000 women in the state of
Florida, the Florida Federation of Women's Clubs, who had a clause in
their by-laws that discriminated. It was for whites only. And they were
in tax exempt status and the state got no taxes from them because they
were do-gooders, and they are. Very fine women, honorable women. However,
their lands and things were not taxed, their buildings and I think that
one of the first bills I filed was to eliminate them from this priviledged
status. I couldn't get any action on it, because they were a very powerful
group throughout the state. But after I launched the bill, I was able to
file suit against them in behalf of two clients who wanted admittance
into that organization, and they did drop this from their by-laws. Under
a great deal of persuasion, we had to go all the way through court.
W.D.V.: How are you received by your colleagues as a black and a woman?
Cherry: I would say that I am a curiosity to them, to a great extent.
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W.D.V.: You were, or you are?
Cherry: I was. They were friendly enough. They would say, "We don't
have too many women in the legislature in the first place." So, they
would say, "What's a nice lady like you doing up here? Wouldn't you
rather be home with the kids?" Something to this effect. "This is
really not the type of thing that you should be doing. What does your
husband think?" That sort of thing. But I think that they have gotten
rather accustomed to me now. More or less. A woman has to work harder,
but once she is accepted, I think that she is pretty well accepted.
It's just like with blacks, and that's where I have an advantage, having
been black, I know discrimination keenly. So, the other discrimination
that come from sex, I can readily see them quickly and understand them.
So, I think that I am priviledged, although I still have a double
disability, too. Like for instance, in explaining things like. .oh,
I've been working with the rape laws lately and for a long time, my
colleagues couldn't understand why I would be working to try and get
women, female officers, female attorneys working with rape victims.
"What difference does it make?" And I said, "Let me give you an example.
Suppose that you had just had an unfortunate incident with someone and
you were brought into a police station and you had the choice of two
policemen, and you were black and one was black and one was white. Which
one would you pick? Or the reverse, you know. You are white and you
come in and there is a black one and a white one, which one would you
rather talk with, if you had choice? It's the same thing with a rape
victim. She has just been assaulted by a male and then she is immediately
put in an all male environment. If she had a choice, I think that she
would prefer a female, although I do admit that females can be just as
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page 4
bad as men, but not on the whole. Usually, they can relate better, they
can empathize and they can do a couple of other things." So, from the
vantage point, I can see how things will work a little bit clearer, I
would say, than some of my colleagues. And I can give you a lot of
examples like that.
W.D.V.: Well, it sounds like some of the attitudes have changed since
you got here.
Cherry: Yeah, I would say so. We've had a whole new election. I guess
I fought pretty hard on capital punishment. I've lost so many good
battles, as I would see it, so I guess that losing doesn't matter too
much anymore. It's winning or losing and coping with either one of
them. But during the first year or so, there were some pretty hard losses.
I fought for child care centers, equal rights amendment. Mainly legislation
that deals with human rights. The elderly . .
W.D.V.: Did you lose on the basis of the issue, or because you were
black?
Cherry: A combination, I imagine, of both. Captial punishment, I think
maybe it was a combination of,maybe I fought so hard not to see it
reinstated, but community pressure probably played the biggest role.
The legislators felt that the community pressures demanded, and it was
election time, demanded that the reinstate it. And I think that we were
teh first state to reinstate it. So, it may have been a combination of
both. There is a tendency to automatically reject legislation that I'm
carrying a lot of times. But you must remember that I come from a different
vantage point. Everybody is the sum total of their total environment, right?
And the things I'm saying are the things I'm accustomed to. They've never
seen that side of it. So, in many instances, I have a job of educating
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page 5
them up to my point of view. Because they haven't seen that side. They
don't know what I'm talking about when I talk about the welfare mother
with ten children that may want to work and how she gets caught in this
cycle and can't get out of it and how all of these things take place.
They really can sympathize, but they can't empathize.
J.B.: Did you grow up in Florida?
Cherry: Born and raised. (Laughter.) In Miami, right in the area that
I'm representing.
J.B.: What did your parents do?
Cherry: My father the town's physician, and my mother ran a boarding
house and a hotel.
J.B.: So, you know many of the people in your district, then.
Cherry: Right, and they know my family. My father built the first
hospital in the South, south of Tennessee, for blacks. He worked closely
with the University of Miami hoping to establish a black medical school.
So, I do have the advantage, and this is where I have a similarity with
them. I'm not a Yankee, I'm not a transport, I'm not a foreigner. I've
seen the Klu Klux Klan, I've witnessed that, I've been through all of
that. So, I know all about it. I've been through sit-ins and all of
that sort of thing.
J.B.: What was what you would consider your first political act?
Cherry: The introduction of the child care bill. I thought that it was
the most beautiful piece of legislation that I had ever written. It was
about a thi-ty or forty page bill, and I haven't been able to get it passed
yet. We are the only state of the fifty states that has no rules and
regulations governing child care. And I can only say that this was
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page 6
because I carried it. It would have been a major step forward.
J.B.: Have you made any progress since you first introduced it?
Cherry: Well, it's coming up this year, I hope. But it's coming up
mainly changed around into someone else's name, or parts of it and
someone else's bill is amended to it, it may still carry the substance.
It may be that they are not quite ready that a black person would
introduce progressive, massive legislation that would make complete
changes. They may not quite be ready for that yet.
J.B.: How do you assess Governor Askew as governor? Both from the
perspective of being a legislator and a citizen of Florida and also
from a black perspective and a woman's perspective.
Cherry: I think that he is a very well intentioned, a very good man.
He is relatively sincere. But I don't rubber stamp him. I don't think
that he has done enough. I think that there is much more that he can
do for blacks and for women. He hasn't spoken out as strongly as I
feel he should. However, I do realize that he is a new voice coming
from the South and he has a good image. But I guess that none of us
will ever be satisfied. I'm not completely satisfied, I'm happy with
him. I think that he could do more, much more in the leadership role.
J.B.: Such as?
Cherry: Well, you see, I think that we could have gotten the Equal
Rights Amendment passed if the governor had done what he did with the
corporate tax. With the corporate tax, he got out and campaigned,
went all over the state of Florida in behalf of it, and it passed. I
think that he could have done maybe not that much effort, but something
similar to that. Other than just lip service. I think that the same
thing is true of blacks. He's made a number of black appointments and
he always reminds me of this, and that's good. But it's no more than
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page 7
he should have made. We still have further down that road to go.
Were getting blacks in the judiciary, where we need them, and we are
getting them in other aspects, but we don't have the kind of Affirmative
Action program that we should have for the state. I'm embarrassed and
I have told him that over and over again, that I am embarrassed that
the state does not have the kind of Affirmative Action that they should
be doing.
J.B.: Does he meet on any regular or formal or informal basis with
the blacks in the legislature?
Cherry: No. Not to my knowledge.
J.B.: Well, it would probably be hard to do it without your knowledge.
(Laughter.)
Cherry: He has the blacks . .
W.D.V.: It wouldn't take a very big room, would it. (Laughter.)
Cherry: No. (Laughter.) We are 'way behind. We are 'way behind
in the blacks in the state legislature. And I have been all over the
state to try to interest blacks in running. Because I really believe
that this is where the action is and where we have to go to make the
changes we want. We're trying to get together the black elected officials
in the state of Florida, but like I said, we are behind.
J.B.: How many are there?
Cherry: About fifty all told.
J.B.: No association.
Cherry: I have called them together twice. They have elected a leader
and he hasn't called them together again. It takes a lot of time to
organize it. Everybody is so strung out and busy until you can't
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page 8
really get..down to. .
J.B.: A big state, too.
Cherry: Yeah.
W.D.V.: Is there any statewide black organization?
Cherry: The NAACP, the Voters League, the Urban League. These are the
ones. They may or may not be considered strictly political organizations.
You know, we really aren't as organized as we should be, and you know I
think that one of the reasons may be that we didn't have it as hard as
some of the other areas. The hard core areas I think come in and do
more than those who have had it kind of all right. Then you become
complacent and you don't do very much. If you've had a little bit of
the pie, you just get complacent. But I think that it is going to catch
on, and hopefully in the near future.
J.B.: Is there any sort of political coaldion existing, or in the making
between blacks and Cubans in Miami?
Cherry: I'm hoping for that. They are beginning to talk about it. And
you know, we have a Spanish speaking mayor in the city of Miami. We have
a Spanish speaking commissioner. There are Spanish speaking persons that
are going to run for office and I'm hopeful that they will get one of the
seats. We don't have any in the legislature. Yet, we have the influx where
Miami is becoming one-third black, one-third Spanish speaking, and one-third
white.
J.B.: We heard some speculations that the Cubans in the Miami area tend
to be more conservative.
Cherry: They tend to be Republican.
J.B.: They tend to be Republican, and as they develop politically, Dade
County is likely to become more conservative.
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Cherry: That has been the prediction. Hopefully, I hope that that
isn't so. With the mayor that we have now being black, and he's
Democratic. The Commissioner that is sitting is . .
J.B.: You say that the mayor is black?
Cherry: No, I mean Cuban. Well, Spanish speaking. He's a Puerto Rican.
And he's a Democrat. The other one is a Democrat and liberal. We have
one on the school board that is a Democrat and very liberal thinking.
We these Spanish speaking leaders, hopefully they will sway their
people that way.
J.B.: Do you have any Spanish speaking constituents?
Cherry: Yeah.
J.B.: Do you have their support?
Cherry: Yeah. I don't know if it's . .let's see, they've had a choice,
a pretty wide range of choice. But they have been supportive. I can't
tell you why, other that they are another group. Not as much of a
minority as blacks, but maybe . .
J.B.: Why should Spanish speaking people,say that those in Dade County,
not be Republican?
Cherry: Because Dade County is not Republican by nature. I mean, for
the first time, we have two Republicans up here now, we never had them
before. It's been Democratic for the past fifty years, I would say.
Predominantly. Like the good old "solid South" you know. All the way
through. It's followed that pattern. Republicans are just beginning
to show strength in that area.
J.B.: My question is really, looking at it from the perspective of
the Spanish speaking population, why should they not be Republican?
Cherry: Because their leaders, the leaders that they are electing, are
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page 10
Democrats. They are following the same trend as the other Dade
Countians. They haven't elected a Republican, Spanish speaking, to
anything that I know of. And they do have leaders in elected positions.
That's all I'm judging on.
J.B.: You're saying that the most effective. . .
Cherry: Visible leaders that they have are . .
J.B.: The Spanish speaking leaders that they have elected are from
the Democratic party.
Cherry: Yeah.
J.B.: So, you think that they are going to follow?
Cherry: I think that they will. I think that this will set a pattern.
And these are well respected and very popular leaders. I don't think
they were hand picked or anything. Most were appointed and then ran,
and kept their jobs. Kept their positions. It may go Republican because
we have Nixon in that area. I have found that there is a Republican
following around in the Key Biscayne area and around there. And there
are quite a few Spanish speaking in that area.
W.D.V.: What did you mean earlier when you said that blacks in Florida
had a bigger piece of the pie than blacks in other southern states?
Cherry: Well, they had a few blacks, I would say, who weren't as hard
pressed as blacks in say, Mississippi, that were . .
W.D.V.: You mean economically pressed or politically oppressed?
Cherry: Economically. No, politically, they were oppressed. But they
had a little bit of . .you know, they had characteristic blacks that
you let flourish. I mean the number rider, that has the flashy cars and
has a little bit of the action, or pie, and they tend to want to keep
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page 11
the status quo. They are not worried about the political arena maybe,
particularly, but they are doing all right. They are living all right.
Then, you have the blacks who work in service for the very wealthy that
do very well, too. And anyone who is pretty comfortable, they keep the
status quo.
W.D.V.: Well, the thing that puzzles me is that Florida is considered
one of the least southern of the southern states . .
Cherry: Only Dade County. Only that area of southern Florida. We went
for Wallace more so than Alabama. You must remember that we gave him a
bigger vote than Alabama. Don't let Florida fool you as far as . .
W.D.V.: It wasn't any bigger than Michigan though, was it?
Cherry: That's right. (Laughter.)
W.D.V.: There are two blacks in the legislature, right?
J.B.: Three.
Cherry: Three. One male and two female.
W.D.V.: That's about as low as any other southern state. Is it the
lowest, Jack?
Cherry: No . .
J.B.: No, Mississippi has one, Louisiana has eight.
W.D.V.: That's right.
Cherry: Don't let Florida mislead you. It is not liberal. It will fool
you. You know, they thought that surely Florida would show up, would be
a barometer for the whole United States in that primary, the presidential
primary . .
J.B.: It was. (Laughter.)
Cherry: The whole country was for Wallace?
W.D.V.: Well, a lot of the country was for Wallace.
J.B.: I tell you, you didn't run any worse in Michigan than you did . .
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W.D.V.: He ran better than Michigan. Are you saying that race is still
an overt kind of issue in . .
Cherry: Covert.
W.D.V.: . . Covert. A covert kind of issue in a legislative campaign?
Cherry: Yeah, it's still there.
W.D.V.: But it's not articulated.
Cherry: No, no, it's . .
W.D.V.: How is it an issue then?
Cherry: It's self evident. (Laughter.) In fact, you don't have to
make it an issue.
W.D.V.: Well, in those cases that you have a black and a white candidate.
But what about if you have two whites or two blacks.
Cherry: There are those who are more active when it comes, or more
aggressive, when it comes to fighting for the rights of minorities. Or
fighting for the rights of poor people, or fighting for the rights of
elderly people.
W.D.V.: If I was a state wide candidate, how would I use that issue
without articulating it out in the open? What would I use? What code
words would I use, what issues would I use if I wanted to exploit race?
Cherry: In what community?
W.D.V.: State wide, say for governor, or senator. If I wanted to pluck
that string, what would I say and what would I do?
Cherry: You mean the minority thing?
W.D.V.: The race thing. If I wanted to make race a very subliminal,
covert kind of an issue.
Cherry: Busing. You would go with the busing issue. The court issue.
These words have a meaning . .
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J.B.: Is welfare another one?
Cherry: Yes. "Get all these lazy, shiftless people and make them work."
Yeah, these are the sort of things . is that what you mean?
W.D.V.: Yes.
Cherry: Those would be the things that people would . .
W.D.V.: Crime?
Cherry: "Crime in the street, and putting it in the White House."
(Laughter.) Yeah, that's it. "We've got to take all the crime off the
streets." These are the code words that you mean.
W.D.V.: Yeah. Well, has the rhetoric of the campaign changed since you
have become aware and involved in politics?
Cherry: Yeah, but they are still . .
W.D.V.: You said that you can remember the Klu Klux Klan days.
Cherry: Yeah, I can remember.
W.D.V.: Our book covers the last twenty-five years and we are trying to
see the major changes that have occurred during that period. Would that
be one of them?
Cherry: Yeah, it's covert, it's hidden now. And you have to be of a
certain amount of sophistication to know what is happening. That is
true, that so many of our people are so easily fooled by what people
say, rather than what that do. And politicians really know how to
make hay with that. For instance, it is very difficult for me to
tell people what I think of their representatives, that their
representatives are really shafting them, because they won't even
believe it. The fellows have it down so well. So, I have to learn
to fight just a little bit better than they do and just a little bit
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page 14
more sophisticated than they can, you know. In a different kind of a
way, because if they see me in front of a black audience or something,
they have no qualms about leaning over and kissing me. (Laughter.) But
they don't mean it, and I know that, but then you've got to get that
across to people. So, it's a different kind of politics now. And I
guess that the southern gentleman really knows how to whip it on, just
like Wallace does. However, I'd rather deal, I think, with a southerner
than I would with the northerner that comes down and goes into the
political area.
W.D.V.: Why?
Cherry: I can deal with my southern beau. (Laughter.) I can deal with
him, I think, despite all these facades. I'd rather deal with the
southerner. Maybe it's because I'm more accustomed to it. .than I
would with the many northern transplants that we have in the legislature.
That's just a personal feeling. They are more sincere, notwithstanding.
I have no qualms in dealing with people who are being 180 degrees away
from what they think. And I think that the southerner can better take
it, they don't hold it. They aren't as vicious. I can even take Wallace
a lot better than I can a whole lot of the northerners that come down
and ask for my vote. And you'll find more and more of that. I think that
there are more and more black people now that are turning over to Wallace.
At least you know what Wallace is, you know what you are dealing with,
you know? It's that sort of thing, if you understand what I'm saying.
J.B.: How is Askew perceived by black voters in this state?
Cherry: He's an ideal to them.
J.B.: So, Wallace against Askew in a Florida primary is not going to
get any black votes, is that what you are saying?
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Cherry: I think that Askew would get them all. I think he would.
Askew has really won the black voter.
J.B.: Was it his stand on the busing thing?
Cherry: I think it was. Because he really did a . he hasn't done
anything since then, but he really did a bold move on that. A very
commendable stance. But he hasn't done anything since then. He made
that one stand and he hasn't done anything else.
J.B.: Doesn't he have some sort of a human relations commission.
Cherry: That doesn't function.
J.B.: It doesn't function?
Cherry: If they did, they would have Affirmative Action, they would be
doing meaningful things. They are not doing anything. But he does have
one. He has one on the status of women. But they aren't doing anything
either. But maybe he will whip them up into shape. And he went in on
the women's vote, too. Because he promised the equality of women. I
don't know if women are going to remember that when he comes back or not,
but he hasn't done anything other than lip service for women.
W.DTV.: Are there any women's political groups.
Cherry: Oh, strong, strong.
W.D.V.: Like what? Is there a Caucus?
Cherry: Yeah. Well, I used to be the head of the Women's National Political
Caucus. We just finished our state meeting last weekend, in Orlando. They
are getting ready, they are getting up. The NOW organization is strong.
Florida, interesting enough, fifty-five percent of the voters are women.
We have the highest percentage of women voters than any other state.
W.D.V.: In the nation?
Cherry: Yeah.
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J.B.: Well, Florida almost passed the ERA, am I correct on that?
Cherry: Well, the first time I carried it, we passed it in the lower
house and because of a constitutional prohibition, they didn't take it
up in the upper house. We had a relic. left over from the constitution,
and the constitution said that no constitutional amendment could be
ratified until after an election. So, they didn't do that. We
overwhelmingly passed it the first year I carried it. The second year
it was ten votes short. This year the senate turned it down. So, we
have tried all kind of strategy.
J.B.: Did the house pass it this year?
Cherry: We didn't take it up. It was asked. I asked the senate to
take it up since they had never voted on it, and we had voted on it
twice.
J.B.: Was there an active women's movement iosupport of'Paula Hawkins?
Cherry: No. Paula Hawkins. .the only disappointment that we've had
with Paula, and I tell her this . .women were very proud of Paula
being elected to the top position, but Paula has not spoken out for
the ERA either. She has not identified with women since she has been
in. I think that she will move closer to us now, with the election
coming up.
J.B.: Well, when we came in, you said that she was the hottest thing
going in southern politics.
Cherry: She is the hottest thing. She's the hottest thing in Florida
politics right now. She has a beautiful chance. The only thing that
might through her out, and I don't think women will remember and I don't
think that any of us who have observed her very carefully will remind
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page 17
anybody of it, but Paula was new and could have made a big difference
with her Republican delegation when the ERA was up, to come before their
committee, or to make any sort of attempt. And she did not. She has
been a consumer person, which will relate to women, but other than that,
she hasn't related as a woman's candidate. She went as a housewife
from Maitland, and that kind of caught on. But she is sitting on a
bank board, and she is a very wealthy woman.
J.B.: What is her husband?
Cherry: I've forgotten what he does, but I think they are all in banking
business and they have their own firemen and health aids, and ect. But
she is really hot, because Guerny is going down, and I think that women
are ready to place a woman in Congress. They have been waiting a long time.
They are ready for a woman lieutenant governor, if Askew had sense enough
to pick one. They are ready for one. Women are tired of being placed
down. They are just about ready for a statewide woman candidate.
J.B.: Do you speak before more black groups, or more women groups?
Cherry: A combination of both. I like to think that I do coalition
politics. I have my priorities in my order, and my black priorities
come first and women second. But I have been at the helm of the National
Women's Political Caucus and we had a convention in Houston. I am now
state president of the NOW organization. I have been on the national
NOW board. The women's movement in the South was in the forefront, and
I led' that movement. It was a black and white team with a woman in
Dade County. Which is most unusual, you don't see that in the South.
We made the changes, we took down the signs, the same way that we did
with the Colored Only signs, we took down the Male Only signs out of
the stores, and we did it by quiet peaceful persuasion. We slowly
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page 18
dropped all the barriers. We went to the department stores, we went
to the restaurants, we went to different places. And we didn't have
to file the suits, but they were removed one by one. So, we have
been in the forefront of the women's rights movement. I don't think
you can very well divide it. When you are talking about people's
rights, if you are going to fight for one set of rights, you've got
to fight for the other, it doesn't make sense if you don't.
J.B.: I know that in North Carolina, a lot of women, liberal Democratic
women are voting Republican women at the state level.
Cherry: They are crossing party lines.
J.B.: Do you see that as a growing trend?
Cherry: That's right.
J.B.: Do you see yourself as a potential statewide candidate?
Cherry: I'm hopeful.
J.B.: This year?
Cherry: Not this year, no.
J.B.: Cabinet post or something else?
Cherry: Possibly a cabinet post, possibly Congress, I'm not sure. But
I do have hopes.
J.B.: Congress would be house seat, though?
Cherry: Yeah.
J.B.: It would be less than statewide there, right?
Cherry: Yeah, that's right. Like I say, it's winning or losing, but
I think that it's time to step on up. But I think that I have to learn
well at this level in order to step up. So, I'm doing my apprenticeship,
I hope.
J.B.: When is a consumer orientedA going to run for Secretary of Agriculture
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page 19
in this state?
Cherry: (Laughter.) I have a woman who says that she is putting her
hat in the ring, I don't know if she's kidding or not. And urban
oriented, that's what she is. Roxie Bolton. She told that she is
going to run, that's the one position that she wants. I don't know.
It would be great.
J.B.: That just struck me as something, just sitting here . .
W.D.V.: The Commissioner of Education is something more natural.
Cherry: No, no.
J.B.: This state is 70 or 80% urban, and you've got a Secretary of
Agriculture who is a cabinet post and he represents the farmers. I
mean, it doesn't make much sense.
W.D.V.: Well, that's not what I meant, I just said . .
(Interruption on tape. Someone enters office)
J.B.: You mean more apropos for a woman?
W.D.V.: I didn't say a woman. . .
Cherry: This just happens to be a woman.
W.D.V.: I meant that the position in the cabinet that would be natural
for a woman would be on the state board of education.
(Laughter.)
Cherry: Like for instance, you could probably name my committees? You
know, women are always. . .
W.D.V.: Constitution, health services. I was assistant to the speaker
of the house for a number of years, so I can tell you where we put them.
(Laughter.)
Cherry: You're right. And I have been trying to get the fellows to
see that we are tired of doing the housekeeping tasks. We do them all
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page 20
the time. I'm on judiciary. That's still one of those, too, that they
let women go on. But I have told the leadership, "I'm moving up, I
want decision making. I want a chairmanship, or I want a minority
whip. I don't want this any longer, I want to move up. I'm tired of
being stereotyped into this."
J.B.: What did he say?
Cherry: He's shaking his head. He's just shaking his head. I'll
have to resort to something if he doesn't move. But it's the same
sort of thing. What's wrong with transportation, or energy or any
of these? We are still getting pigeon holed in these things.
J.B.: Do blacks tend to coalesce around any statewide candidate for
office?
Cherry: They haven't. We have one young man who probably has the
most charisma and is going to state that he will run this year, and
that is Alce. Hastings. Have you seen him?
J.B.: No.
Cherry: He ran when Lawton Chiles ran. He's very articulate, he's
very handsome. Looks like he has a bright future.
J.B.: From where?
Cherry: Fort Lauderdale. He's a lawyer. He's run, but each time it
has been unsuccessful. That's unfortunate. That's a Republican area
that he comes from. Fort Lauderdale is highly Republican.
J.B.: What's his first name?
Cherry: Alce. A-L-C-E. Hastings. H-A-S-T-I-N-G-S. He's going to
run for the Paula Hawkins seat and I think that he has a good chance of
getting that.
J.B.: On the
Cherry: Uh-huh.
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page 20
J.B.: Is he going to get the Democratic nomination?
Cherry: Yeah. He's run so much, and they know him and they know that
he is capable. They know that he is articulate and I don't think that
they could deny it to him. He carried it for them, I think, on that
U.S. Senate seat that Chiles holds. So, he can hold his own. Money
probably will stand in his way. He has his own personal money, but
I mean getting money from others might stand in his way. But he is
the nearest thing that we have to Julian Bond down here. And I think
that's what people are looking for. You know, that kind of person
to rally around. He's about the closest thing we have.
J.B.: Has he run for the legislature before?
Cherry: I'm trying to think. He's run for the U.S. Senate. .I think
he has. He's run about four times. City commission, Senate and then
legislature. And that's bad. You get in that rut, and people think
that you can't make it. But he may have been a little ahead of his time
on each one of them.
J.B.: Who are Askew's advisors, black appointments?
Cherry: Mrs. Range in Miami, who was his secretary of community affairs.
He has a black now who is assistant secretary of labor, C.
He has Rabin.ell (?) who is one of his assistants or aides, he has
Claude Anderson, who is over education. Those that he has on his staff
I don't think too much of. I think this is probably his downfall to me.
As far as I am concerned, because these are all fellows that are not
from here. And who are not too familiar with the state itself and the
blacks in the state. And the blacks in the state are going to kind of
resent this sort of thing. That's the one place where he makes a
mistake, I think.
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page 21
J.B.: Well, speaking of Claude Anderson, who is more or less his
top black aide, you think of someone who is not from Florida?
Cherry: He's from Michigan. (to De Vries) Why don't you take him
back to Michigan? (Laughter.) I'm just kidding. I don't think
that you bring a man in from Michigan to tell you what to do with
education in Florida when you've got all these people here that
are highly trained, that have been working in the educational system,
that came up through it, were trained in it, and then you pick
somebody like this, it's sort of a slap in the face. Rabinell is
the same way, he came from somewhere, I don't know where.
J.B.: From South Carolina, maybe?
Cherry: Oh is that where he's from?
J.B.: I don't know.
Cherry: He's a good man, but I'm just saying that people will resent
that. It's as though you didn't have anything available, the local
talent didn't come up to par. That sort of feeling. And I don't
think that Askew realizes that. That's as I see it. I think that
he is a good national candidate, I think that we are going to lose
him to the national scene as Vice-president.
J.B.: How would you feel if he became President?
Cherry: I think that he would do his best. I don't think he would
do very much, but he would do his best. He's very steeped in legislative
knowledge and all that, so we're fortunate in that, and that he's been
in a long time. He knows the legislative process, he knows all about
it. But he is getting more and more conservative every day.
J.B.: He's conservative, or cautious?
Cherry: Cautious, I guess. Yes he's cautious. A much better choice
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page 22
of words. That's it, cautious. And it may be that he's being singled
out so much for the national scene. That may be it. But he's a good
man, he's good. Doesn't smoke, doesn't drink. Conservative man.
(Laughter.)
J.B.: Lester Maddox doesn't smoke or drink either.
Cherry: He doesn't? Does he require that others not do it?
J.B.: I'm not sure. (Laughter)
Cherry: He's running for . what is Maddox running for?
J.B.: He's running for governor.
Cherry: That's right, but how many candidates are there? Seven or
eight?
J.B.: Nine, I think.
Cherry: You know, they are about to have a woman governor in Connecticut.
I just did a seminar at Mount Holyoke. They are about to have a woman
governor in Connecticut, I think Progress. We are going to have some
women in those big positions soon. And some blacks.
J.B.: Do you see more black women running? In Georgia, there are
only two women in the legislature.
Cherry: We've got Grace and Betty, the only two. And both of them are
black. Black women have been able . one thing, we can get more
easily accepted, I believe for the first initial time than black men.
The door will open a little bit quicker for us. And we have been
playing a role of compromise ever since I can remember, between
blacks and whites. In family situations, in home situations, in
service situations and everything. So, we are well equipped for
that.
J.B.: Who is the Congressman from you district?
Cherry: Leaman, the new one. It used to be Pepper until we split it
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page 23
up here. Pepper and Leaman are very close, but Leaman is really my
Congressman. I'm looking at him?
J.B.: Maybe he's looking at you ? (Laughter.)
Cherry: He just read one of our resolutions in the Congressional Record
for me last week. On the Haitian situation. We've got a terrible
Haitian situation here, where the United States government will not
grant them political asylum. And I passed a resolution in the house
here and asked that he read it into the Congressional Record, so
we can get some uniform standards.
(end of side A of tape.)
Cherry: I think that it is the government's whole attutide toward
Haiti.
J.B.: You think that it's desperate?
Cherry: Yeah, I think that it's reached over the top. We've never had
too good relationships with Haiti and Papa Doc. So, we've got about
three or four hundred people that have come to these shores, you know.
And they've got them all in jail, locked up in the jails in Miami.
Keeping them back, and they are committing suicide in jail. And
this is the country where they say, "Give me your tired, your
hungry, your whole masses yearning to be free." It's ironic. I
guess I better get back downstairs. Is that about all?
J.B.: Do you have any other questions?
W.D.V.: Thank you very much.
J.B.: We appreciate it.
Cherry: Let me know when your book comes out.
( Interruption on tape.)
J.B.: You just told her that you thought there was more hope for
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page 24
the South than any other section of the United States.
Cherry: Yeah.
J.B.: Why?
Cherry: The South coming up with the problems and the solutions to
the problems. I think that we are going get it. You know, our
legislature is number four in the United States as rated by the
Association of . .whatever it is, the legislatures. I think that
we are the ones that are going to be able to solve the problems and
really push forward.
J.B.: You are talking about problems of human relations now?
Cherry: Human relations, that's right.
J.B.: Why?
Cherry: I think that really, we, black and white, can sit down better
with one another than any other group of people. The black and white
southerners can sit down and iron it out. Not withstanding all of
the conflicts and all of the history and all of the past things, we
can still sit down and iron out our troubles and our problems and
resolve them.
J.B.: Does this go back to what you were saying before about how you
find it easier to deal with the native Floridians in the legislature
than the Yankees?
Cherry: That's right. You know, I used to go off to school, you know
how you go off in the summertime. You go off to NYU or to Columbia,
Harvard or Howard. The people I was closest to were the southern whites.
In the classes. I mean, we could find one another, not withstanding all
the differences, with all of the differences, there are more similarities
when you come right down to it. You don't believe me?
J.B.: I do believe you.
From the Southern Oral History Program, #4007, Interview A-97 in the Southern Historical Collection,
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